Found this guy on Youtube, kinda like his content.






Mike

Some years ago I considered a shotgun for HD. I had myself, wife, and two kids in the house. Questions I wound up with were these. Place of gun storage? Authorized access versus unauthorized access? Likely points of threat entry? Likey lanes of fire? Likely locations of family members? Then in the absence of youtube, I conducted my own ammunition and barrier tests. I opted for a handgun in a lock box.

I saw one of that guys other videos. I liked it.

My house's exterior walls are 6x8" pine, interior walls are pine tongue and groove, live alone, nearest neighbor is over 200 yds away. My shotguns have either #4 lead or steel BB as first shell, followed by 4 buck. If I start feeling the need, it will be 4 buck followed by 1 buck! I also have 00 buck, but consider that an outdoors load.

I have me, wifey and dog so i can use whatever I want i usually keep buckshot or #4's depending on whether or not it's crow killing time too


Mike

I feel confident with #4 buckshot . I shoot the shotgun most every range trip to stay familiar with it.

Inside a home there’s nothing better. Never met anyone who could take a load of #8 at close range and shrug it off. Buckshot is for the great outdoors.

A field load of #4's or #5's inside a typical house would get the work done without being too much of a good thing.

We have a "safe" room at each end of our house.

If I hear something in my house, my wife goes to the safe room with her cell phone...calls the police...tells the intruder where she is and that she is armed. She keeps the police on the line...and shoots anything that tries to come through the door.

My job is to get to the other end of the house where my daughter sleeps. We go to the "safe room", her room, and do the same.

I am not going to try to clear a house. And if I did, it would not be with something someone could grab and take from me...like a shotgun.

A shotgun is fine from a defensive position.

My wife and child both know to stay low on the floor in our "safe rooms". If either of us HAS to fire...it really doesn't matter how many walls the bullets penetrates.

I learned something while working at a medium security prison...you can quail almost any threat by firing "rubber" bullets chest high.

Chest high...fired from a low position...but, not rubber bullets...that's the plan. Hope I never have to act upon it.

Bought some Hornady critical defense loads for my .410 Rossi single shot shotgun.

They have on .41 cal bullet, followed by two .35 cal balls.

At 15 yards, the bullet hit sideways, 12" below POA, and the two balls were 1" apart, 3" below POA.

These loads must be designed for the "Judge" which has riflings to spin the bullet?

They sure do NOT work in a smooth bore shotgun.

Virgil B.

Anyone know if "rifled" slugs will spin and pattern out of a .410 shotgun?

I know the Hornady three ball/one bullet load will NOT pattern in my single shot .410

Bought some three 000 buck loads that work pretty well, but more would be better

Not sure if I can even find any of these slug loads right now anyway.

Might be best to get the five 000 3" buck load, IF I can find any of these!

Thanks!

Virgil B.

Those "flutes" Lon a so called "rifled" slug are for show. They do not catch the wind and spin as they travel down range. I have a couple of slug moulds which do not have the flutes and those slugs shoot as well as the factory ones.

I'm pretty sure those slugs will "pattern" but how well they will group is up to the individual gun and slug. In the larger bores I have found one brand to work better in a particular gun while a different brand of slug may work better in a different gun of the same bore size. One can only buy a mixture of slugs and try them. Then go back and buy more of the one that did the best - if any can be found.

woodmaster81;

Thanks for the tips!

Now to see IF I can find any slug loads for my .410

Hope they don't hit sideways like the critical defense .41 cal bullet did.

Virgil B.

Theres a guy in youtube that takes 8 or 9 shot shells and pours wax in them so it behaves like a slug until it enters something.

Pretty impressive.

The lawyers may eat you alive if you use those shells...

00 buck , if I can't keep them all in a man at 10-15 feet I'll use a baseball bat.

Most likely should change my 00 Buck to #2's or BB's . Things don't always go as planed and a load of 2's to the chest the recipient won't be standing there asking for my wallet.

"At 15 yards, the bullet hit sideways, 12" below POA, and the two balls were 1" apart, 3" below POA..."

Virgil, try it again at 15 feet.

I mostly want a buckshot load for big cats that might come in my yard.

We have Cougars around here.

It's 30 yards across my front yard, and would like to be able to reach the far side.

Am thinking a 5 ball load of 000 buck might work pretty good.

I've got my Glock 19 for 15 feet, and it's on me, or within reach 24-7

Virgil B.

At 20-30 yds #3 buck will pass through a 250# boar on a broadside shot to the chest and kill other hogs standing behind it. Did the 3’fer thing, uh, 3 times up in GA about 25 years back. Keep the occupied rooms and neighbors in mind when you start shoot heavy buck in a house. Birdshot will halt the debate w/o putting innocents at risk. For that matter, birdshot will put a deer down instamundo at 10-15’.

It's about 1/2 mile to the next house from where I live.

No kids to worry about with over penetration.

Have had Cougars sighted within 200 yards of my house....

My Wife heard one "scream" a while back.

And, my nearest neighbor woke up to one killing a deer in there yard one night.

Thanks for the information!

Virgil B.

I may not have been clear in the point. Cats or people, you’ll have better results with smaller buck. A couple or three dozen holes are more effective than 8 or 9. Smaller shot generally patterns better than large. I’ve killed full size pigs out to 40 yds or so with a 20 ga, 2-3/4” #3 buck load. Boom and flop. Went pig hunting a few times with 12 bore 00 and had to shoot several twice. Blind belief in 00 or 000 as a problem solver may lead to some surprises.

Bird shot in the house #4 buck out side, works for me. Rio7

After reading these posts and watching a few videos I loaded two 2 3/4" turkey shells with #5 in my house 12ga and the rest are low recoil 00 buck shot. After two shots I reckon it's really on.

The over penetration thing is scary for people, pets, and property, but....

How much siding and home repairs does a person want to do afterwards????

I think I'm changing my buck shot out to 6 or 7.5 lighter loads. I figure 15 foot range

Cleanup and repairs are the last thing to worry about.
Stopping the fight and defending lives means MUCH more.

Not harming or killing unintended people and minimizing collateral damage are as important.

Ill stay with stuff that wont go through the siding and kill the dog walkers on the sidewalk in front of my house.

8 shot will do.

I don't need more civil suits on my hand. Just the poor grieving family of the misguided soul that broke into my house.

I killed a doe at about 25 Yds with #4 shot. I hit her in the face it penetrated her skull . it was a bang flop she was a mature doe. I don't know how much she weighed.... I dried out and cleaned her skull and had it for many years to show people how shot would penetrate..

I'd stick with buckshot, one needs to survive the unlikely encounter before the even less likely extraneous possibilities come into play.

I am not a fan of bird shot, even at close range. Nearly 30 years ago Minneapolis and surrounding cities had a spate of shootings that occurred during robberies of drug buyers. Seven of those shootings involved a shotgun using 6 or 7.5 birdshot at racongested of a few yards as the shots were fired from the front seat of a van to the rear doors. 6 of the seven were shot in the body, the seventh was shot in the face.

Two of the first group and the seventh survived thier wounds. All were able to travel at least 50' from where they had been shot which means they had the potential to harm others if they would have been armed and/or would not have been taken by surprise.

NYPD, Illinois Sate Patrol, and other departments used to issue #6 birdshot to prevent over penetration. They found, through painful experience, this practice left the officer wanting on too many occasions. All have long gone to buckshot as their standard load.

When was it that NYPD and ISP issued #6 shot to officers?

lead #2 and BB.

ISP was sometime in the early 70s I believe. It was mentioned in passing in a report on their changing to the S&W 39 with 100 gr soft points from the previous 38 Spl revolvers. Buckshot was adopted soon afterwards partly due to this episode.This report was one piece of data used to convince my chief to allow the option of 9mm autos in addition to 38 Spl revolvers.

NYPD Stakeout Squad used birdshot initially but switched to 00 buck as it was much more effective at stopping a fight. This would have been in the late 60's as Jim Cirillo referred to the use of birdshot it in some of his writings during his start in the Stakeout unit.

Currently, I am using a Mossberg 500 in 20 GA, with #3 buck.

there is a difference between police and home owners.

Police are accountable for everyone stray shot, but they have a city insurance policy to hide behind plus they are allowed to shoot people.

Homeowners are accountable too and they are not covered to shoot people. You will pay $$$ once you pull the trigger.

I still believe smaller shot to avoid over penetration is wise, but maybe somewhere between #4 to #2 shot. My opinion is based on watching ducks & turkeys being shot.

If you don't stop a fight, like right freaking now, you might not be living long enough to deal with legal issues.

1. When it is time to shoot, shoot.
2. When you shoot, make good hits.
3. Those hits need to work as intended.
4. Count your blessings if you are still standing. Or if you are not leaking.

I hope this is a statement out of ignorance as that can be fixed.

For your edification, the police are NOT "allowed to shoot people." if that were true there would be a lot more shootings by the police. The police are subject to the same rules as the general public in the use of deadly force though the police are allowed to use deadly force in narrow circumstances to protect the public at large rather than individuals. Officers are also directed by policy as to when deadly force can be used and that can be more restrictive than for non-officers.

That insurance policy you mention is a shield for the employer, not the officer. The city "hides" behind this policy for a number of reasons no different than a homeowner with their own liability insurance policies. Homeowners may be covered by their insurance liability policies no different than an officer.

If an officer involved shooting has been ruled justified and within policy, then the officer should not be subject to lawsuits, just like a homeowner. That is a "benefit" extended to employees across most occupations. If the officer is determined to be at fault, then they can be financially liable as an individual. This can occur even if the shooting is legal if policy is violated. That is something a homeowner does not have to contend with.



I base my recommendations on a few personal experiences as well as more information in the form of studies, autopsies, and investigations from various experts than a person can sift through in a lifetime. I prioritize my needs based on importance to choose the tool that most effectively does the job. The vast majority of collateral damage is caused by missed shots, not pass throughs. The fewer rounds fired with the fewest projectiles sent out, the less chances of others being hurt.

Another thought on the subject - anyone actually test how far these bullets travel after exiting the test medium? Just because the projectile exits does not mean it carries very far. Until this can be definitively determined, the danger of projectiles exiting a structure and injuring others is often based on imagination and conjecture.

This is interesting as to various views. It is readily apparent as to
who lives in larger cities, and those who have never been in combat
or active Federal or local law enforcement. Training and experience
will always trump uninitated opinion. Having been both a state and Federal agent, with Vietnam
Special Forces combat experience- strongly recommend that every fight should be ended as quickly as possible.
You should ALWAYS know where your family is-with their firearm.


Every wrong move before a criminal emboldens him to the next level. Go early with
a shotgun and a 1911. Buckshot-you choose.
Very few argue when dead from a Winchester M-12 riot gun and a Colt series 70 1911.

Practice home invasion correct defense with your family-the ISP is not as well armed as the Chicago PD-
and both agencies are now at the mercy of progressive politicians.

There are tons of videos on you tube showing how far different projects go through different media. Easy search. The posting started out that way BTW.

Only medium I ever played with was hogs. 3 times it happened that 2 pigs standing behind their mommy flopped dead after a load of 2-3/4” #3 buck passed thru the old girl. 200# or so up front and 40-75# behind. All shots were broadside on the sow.

As a pig eradicator, that's efficient!

Unless you have to go chasing wounded pigs.

I used buck shot on beaver control and dropped down to smaller shot sizes (2, BB, etc.). Much better kills and I didn't watch the buckshot skipping across the water so far.