Recently I got a quail hunting trip in GA. I’d like to get my first double gun for the trip which will be in early to mid Winter. I could take a 12 ga. semi-auto or pump shotgun, but I’d really like to have a double barrel shotgun. I don’t do a ton of upland hunting to justify the purchase, but I could also use it for sporting clays/trap//skeet. Plus there’s never a bad reason to buy a new gun.

I’ve been doing a fair amount of research in the last couple of weeks. I’m pretty set in a 20 gauge. Some may think that may be too big for bob white quail, but I’d really like to get something that would be versatile and can use on pheasants if I go back to ND. I don’t think I have any intention of getting a 12 gauge, but am open to a 16 gauge.

My preference would be something relatively lightweight,around 6.5 lbs or less. Originally I was thinking of getting an O/U but in my research the SxS have really intrigued me.

My original thought is to spend the money on something of good quality that will last a lifetime and I can pass down to my son. I typically buy entry level guns, only to sell them a few years later and buy something better.

In my research I’ve also discovered the world of vintage side by sides, which I think would be really cool to own and shoot. Although, these old guns have more meaning when passed down through generations, but unfortunately my dad and grandfathers weren’t hunters or shooters so any vintage shotgun wouldn’t have a personal story with it.

I’ve been looking at the Browning Cynergy in 20 ga. and am not completely set on this, but I really like it.

I’ve also been looking at various CZ models, like the Bob White, Redhead, and SharpTail. I actually really like the weight and idea of the Upland Ultralight, but don’t love the looks of it. I wouldn’t be opposed to a Ruger Red Label either.

For some reason, the Berrettas don’t really do much for me.

Any other brands or specific shotguns you recommend or I should take a look at? I’d spend up to $2,000, if it is something I really like, is of great quality and will last a lifetime.

Sorry for the long post.

You might consider a bump in your budget and spend a few more dollars to get a real nice heirloom gun that you will hunt years with and your son would love to inherit.

English side by side shotguns are exceptional and you can find a nice quality Birmingham gun that will not only be light for its gauge and a 12 bore will always pattern better than a 20.

If you do get one, you won’t be sorry.

http://www.hillrodandgun.com/

^^^^The English wrote the book on side by sides^^^^ very light loaded 12 bores set live game records that will never be beaten. The Basques, however, were smart enough to copy the fine English guns, and there are some bargains to be had there, so you don't have to sell the ranch to get a quality gun that will perform like a fine English gun. I emphasize, the light loads were the foundation of the great gunmakers. I don't think you can buy a factory load that will make an English or Basque gun perform to it's full potential. Author Terry Weiland wrote on this subject a while back.

There are a ton of nice sxs's out there. I shoot sxs's almost exclusively, don't cross the 12ga off your list. My favorite 12's are under 6 1/2 lbs. It is the shot charge that is important. In my 12's I shoot 7/8 and 1 oz loads in 2 1/2" shells, even my waterfowl shotguns;
.

Husqvarna 51 12ga 29 1/2" barrels at 6 lb 8 oz I use 7/8 oz ITX and 1 oz of Bismuth for waterfowl.



My Hungarian 12ga sxs with 70mm chambers, 27" barrels and chrome lined bores is 6 lb 12 oz . The British10ga Hammer shotgun shown with the 12 is only 7 lb 14 oz I'll be hunting quial with it this fall with 7/8 oz #8's.


My all time favorite upland gun is a 12ga 5 lb 15oz(yes 5 lb) Bernardelli it is lightning fast and an ounce of lead 6's is the Hammer of Thor on wild pheasants.


There are a lot of nice 12ga Euro sxs's out there that come in under 7 lbs. and lots of 1 oz and under hunting ammo available. I've sold off all my sub gauge bird guns for light 12's.

Look around the internet for a good used Sauer, Simson, Manufrance (Robust) or Merkel 16 gauge.


This is post-war gun and has 2 3/4" chambers. The Sauers were nimble guns on the 16 gauge frame.

https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...el-60-16ga-mfg-1955.cfm?gun_id=101663785

Check out Crosnoe guns out of Cape Girardeau, Missouri. They have several vintage but not "old". Good luck

Go slow and educate yourself on SxS...If one doesn't know their way around, or buy on the advice of someone who does, you can easily buy a money pit when you are buying something old.

It may look cool to go on your Quail hunt with a SxS, however it isn't necessary. In addition many of the older ones have stock dimensions with considerable drop at heel. Harder to shoot and recoil to face will be increased.

Something made relatively recently is the wise choice for one not all that familiar with SxS..

Lots of wisdom in this post. You'd be fine with the Browning O/U you mentioned. In mid priced SxS guns, I like the Browning BSS or Ithaca SKB guns. I shoot a big long BSS 12 very well but it is a bit heavy to carry everywhere. The Browning 20's are more portable. The Ithaca SKB 12's are still handy guns. My preference is for 28 inch or longer barrels as I think they point better, but to each his own. I only buy if the condition is very good or better. I've been underwhelmed with the CZ shotguns. I think they look better than they work. When I got my first vintage gun, I consulted an expert friend who helped me choose it. Maybe you should make friends with battue. He seems pretty informed.

A 20 gauge Parker or Fox, if it fits you, would be an appropriate choice for a Georgia plantation hunt, I would think. As noted above, these will have a bit more drop at heel and comb than newer guns; but you may actually prefer more drop, as do I. It won't beat you death as a game gun, but if you use it a lot for extended rounds of clay games, I suppose it might become noticeable. Best thing to do is handle as many different guns as you can. You'll develop a preference.

Also, you'll want to consider whether or not you want to go with single or double triggers; I always liked double triggers, but they take some getting used to.

Wow....those are some beautiful shotguns. Many of them are out of my price range, but a handful have piqued my interest.




I haven't come across many Spanish/Basque shotguns in my research. Any particular brands or models you recommend checking out? Do you have a link to any Terry Weiland articles or books I should check out?




Good point on shooting lighter 12 gauge loads and finding one that is lightweight. I think that you and HitnRun have convinced me to include 12 gauge into my search. I don't reload for shotgun, but maybe this is a good reason to start.




Thanks. There's quite the inventory here. They do a great job with pictures and condition, I just wish they posted the weight as well. I may be making a phone call to determine weight.



Thank you for the recommendation. I think I saw a few a handful of Sauers and Merkels in my research. I'll certainly consider these.





Thanks for the advice. Yeah, I guess I really don't need to rush into something.The lat thing that I want to do is to have to spend time and money on something that gives me a headache. I was listening to a podcast recently that called out that many of the older guns a lot of drop.




I've heard good things about the Browning BSS. What is the weight of your BSS 12? Originally, I was thinking about getting 26" barrels to savie wieght for when I'd be hiking multiple miles a day chasing pheasants in ND if I got back, however, reading up on it many people say that they don't follow through as well as 28" barrels. What things did you not like about the CZ guns? Which models did you have or shoot? What was your first vintage gun? Any regrets or things you'd change if you had to do it over?




Thanks for all the advice and recommendations! Keep it coming as the more I educate myself the better decision I'll make.

The Parkers and Fox guns are probably what drew me into consider something vintage. Good call on handling as many as possible. I probably need to start going to the trap and skeet club more and chatting with people and asking about their shotguns. Perhaps some will let me handle or shoot them. I think I like the mystique, of the double triggers as it seems very old school and traditional, but I often wonder if I'd like it when shooting at game. If I don't master it and it causes me to hesitate or miss on birds, I'd probably regret the decision.

Double triggers are not all the hard to figure out....And it is highly unlikely you will find a good small gauge Parker or Fox for $2000.

I have a 20ga Bobwhite, not a favorite but I keep it around for shooting high volume steel. Triggers are heavy and the shotgun is heavy for it's size BUT that isn't to bad as high volume steel doesn't include a lot of walking.

As far as barrel length it is really a personal thing, my Bernardelli has 25" barrels and my Husqvarna 29 1/2" the rest of my sxs's kind of fit in between. Both my longer barreled Huskies have swamped barrels keeping the weight down.

A fire poster has one of these and seems to like it...Right around your price point...

https://dickinsonarms.com/portfolio/plantation/

I have been using Ugartechea SxS's for many years. They are well made, fairly light and reasonably priced. Built much like a British game gun.

Ugartechea are one of the best of the Spanish SxS.

One more thought:

Everyone wants you to shoot their favorite gun, I suggest you get the gun you will like. A nice SxS with an English grip and splinter forearm will point better and you can get a good London, Birmingham gun in a 12 gauge that will weigh no more than the Spanish 20 gauges and still less than German 20’s.

Shooting well with light loads will compensate for bad shooting and more powerful loads.

Patterns are essential when you talk of lighter loads and the 12 will excel in that category. Double triggers are a plus, you can shoot either barrel first and still follow up with a quick second shot and you don’t have to remember the selector on a single trigger gun.

You can find something you will love for under $2600.00 and they will still be worth it years later when the Brownings and European guns have lost their luster.

My Browning 12 has 30 inch barrels and goes about 7.5 lb. I’ve lugged it many miles for pheasants and ducks. It’s killed more birds than Colonel Sanders but is really too heavy for a true upland gun.

Lighter guns from Browning, Ithaca/SKB and Ugartechea (as Ed pointed out), are often found well below $2000 and can be good choices. As long as you don’t overpay, and give them reasonable care, they will hold their value forever.

True vintage guns, as battue suggests, are a bit of a risk until you know exactly what to look for. In almost all of these, small gauge guns have skyrocketed in price. Some nice 12’s can occasionally be found at reasonable prices. My most carried gun is a 1930’s Ithaca NID 12. These are solid guns and can sometimes be found at bargain prices.

BTW, I only buy guns that fit me, or can easily be made to do so. I also am quick to have chokes opened if it fits my purposes. I am a shooter, not a collector. I’d sooner hit with a Mossberg than miss with a Parker.

Only problem with many of the older ones, and the old Brit shotguns are especially suspect, is soft steel. Will only show itself if the gun has been shot more than a little. However, one of the reasons the Brit guns of the past were sent back to be tightened up on a regular basis. Which also was true of the old London "Best" that were used extensively on the driven fields. And a good reason for having any older double checked out by someone who knows what they are looking at. That and if a part lets loose, you are most likely looking at having a good smith duplicate it. Which may or may not hurt more than a little.

Two triggers on older SxS are more reliable, but with todays modern shells....IC or Mod both work about the same out to were most of us consistently fail. So trigger selection becomes mostly a non-issue.

That’s exactly why you need to look at

http://www.hillrodandgun.com/

The barrels, action and wood has all been checked for tolerance and guaranteed. No guesswork here, just a solid guarantee:

We offer a five day inspection period with a "Return demanded if not delighted!" - no questions asked return policy.

There isn’t any used gun that will always past scrutiny regardless of origin.

There is no guesswork at Hill Rod And Gun

Just to clarify, are you associated with Hill Rod and Gun?

Very nice selection...

Clarification is what is lacking on the Campfire. I have nothing to do with Hill Rod And Gun, but the site speaks for itself.

So many times endorsements are little more than someone trying to make an unsupported opinion. Check out the elk hunting forum and you will find many opinions of guys that have never shot an elk.

There’s a Simson 20 in great condition on uplandjournal right now, at the high end of your budget. Late 60s vintage.

Upland Journal...Nice site as long as you don’t offend Dave????. Or you will be post holed...😀

If I had to make a bet....he voted for Biden.
And don’t even think about mentioning where you hunt...castrated and then post holed....

Gun control and politics will get you post holed.

However, some posters take some superb upland pics.

I agree that experience matters. I only asked because you used the word "We" outside of quotations. This is not to say that a seller can't give good advice. It just nice to be able to separate helpful personal advice, like yours, from a sales pitch.

Another thought for the OP. Whatever gun you choose, attend a few vintage type shoots where lots of double gun guys will be gathered. At a typical skeet/trap club not many side by sides are seen. In this way, you'll encounter guys who are glad to let you handle, and sometimes shoot, a variety of guns. You'll make some new friends in the process as well. Best wishes.

Many good suggestions here. However, if you want to honor the old time Georgia Quail traditions….it will be a Parker or Fox.

Nothing wrong with good old Stevens or Savage sxs's. Winchester model 24's were also great all around guns. Not as pretty as some more expensive ones, but are you trying to impress that other guys, or get some birds?

There is always adequate, good, better and best. And nothing wrong with appreciation of quality tools.

And if any who have handled more than a few SxS do not appreciate a perfectly balanced English or quality SxS then they should stay with adequate.

It’s about yourself, not someone else. And some fail to appreciate the concept.

".....It’s about yourself, not someone else. And some fail to appreciate the concept......"

Exactly my point of giving simple advice.

For you there is nothing wrong with…however the OP was referring to a better quality shotgun. Plus, you had to throw in “the who you trying to impress” dig.

Actually the original post did not totally say no to simple, old utilitarian guns. He is seeking advice. I offered advice....

to the Original Poster, if you consider savings on a great older basic shotgun, you then have more money to enjoy maybe another hunt, supplies, or a second gun (never a bad thing). Never meant to offend with my advice. Have a great hunt.

You are right on all counts, although a Sterlingworth isn't too far out of budget if you settle for 2-1/2 inch chambers. They have gone up a good bit since I last looked.

A shooter Fox Sterlingworth in 20ga can be found for $2000 if you dig around. Probably even a pretty nice one if you go with extractors. Many other good options out there as has been mentioned as well. I have no problems with a 12ga personally, but I will mention “some— read, not all” GA plantations will not allow or at least discourage anything over a 20ga for quail hunts. At least worth mentioning so you can check into the issue or help in your decision making.

Loper, I am NOT an authority on SxS's, but I love them and have shot a lot of low budget upland (desert quail and chukar)...so, truth be told, I handled some fine English guns, courtesy of their owners, was advised by the owners that I could get English fit and handling by going with Basque (Eibar) guns. The knowledgeable guys also taught me some key points on gun fit, so, with my limited budget and limited knowledge, I haunted gun shows for a few years and found what fit most importantly and far second, what I could afford. Ended up with a Ugartachea and an AYA, both in 12 bore. I didn't shop for a name, I shopped for fit to my body dimensions. And never regretted either purchase. I got into 2 near new guns, sidelocks, double triggers, for less than 2400 total, 1970's dollars. Keep in mind, Basque guns have different grades, primarily cosmetics, and the upper grades can go well into 5 digits. I went with 'economy' grades, same guns, perfectly regulated, just plain wood and minimal embellishment.

Don’t know how recent this is, but just saw it will looking at the Lion Country Supply website...

https://www.doubleshotguns.com/ugartechea-statement.html

Certainly one of the Spanish Best gun mfgs. Wonder what happened? Apparently the Basques are facing a similar challenge as others with a lack of young folks who want to go into the business so it may be as simple as no hands to make them.

Still have AyA and Grulla.....However, inexpensive they are not...Some eye candy...

https://www.grullaarmas.com/en/our-shotguns-and-rifles

That statement is a few years old. Pretty sure it was a case of no young ones wanting to take it over, but just a guess. A month ago or so the owner? of Ugartechea posted on a Facebook double gun page he was liquidating all remaining parts. Everything from complete actions to stock blanks to barrel sets.

Thanks for that Battue. As a Red Green level artisan, I’m always amazed by those whose medium is in wood and steel.

To the OP, it’s purely personal but a finer SxS, I dare say, will give you reward far past its initial cost.

Thanks for the feedback. Aren't those 20ga. Bob Whites only 6 lbs? That seems pretty lightweight to me. But then again if your Bernardelli is under 6lbs as a 12 ga., I can see why you would think the 20 ga. Bob White should be less weight.



That looks pretty sharp. I like how there are a lot of options with these, bore sizes, barrel lengths, triggers, etc. I do wish the weights were posted though.





Thank you! I've added this to my list to review.

Good call on getting one that fits properly. I don't have any intentions on being a collector, just a shooter/hunter. I think I'd rather have one good double barrel shotgun that I know and shoot well, and has downed many birds in the field, than a small arsenal of shotguns that have only taken a handful of birds each.



After reading some of your points as well as others I'm beginning to rethink getting a really old, vintage shotgun. I know myself enough that if I buy something that has problems or isn't reliable and paid at the top of my budget, I'm just going to be frustrated and will likely be turned off by it.

Back in college I bought an old CJ-5 Jeep with my money I'd been saving since my first job in high school. It died on me within a month or two and I had to spend a lot of time and money getting it to run good. Even though I had invested a good bit into it, I was happy to sell it off as I was always worried about the next thing that would break on it. I told myself once I got a job out of college and started making money, I'd buy a new Jeep and did. I have no regrets about selling the CJ.



Thanks. I've never been to that site before, but just wandered over there looking for the Simson, and couldn't find it. Do you have a link?




Great idea. I need to see if my local clays course has these types of shoots.




Thanks! I actually thought about this last night as I was perusing my local classifieds and saw a Steven 311A in 12ga. for $400, might even be able to negotiate and get it for less. From the pictures, it appeared to be in good shape, but the seller didn't list a ton of details, If I ended up going this route, I wouldn't be out of pocket a ton if something didn't work well on it. If I wanted to upgrade down the road, I probably could keep it or sell it for about what I paid for it.



What are some of the key points on fit? I'm new to this, and to me its always seemed that a shotgun either fit me, or didn't fit me based on the first time or two I shoulder it. Something either felt awkward with it in one way or another, or it just felt natural. I'm sure there is more to it than that, but I don't know what those would be.

Where did you get the Ugartachea and an AYA for $2,400?



I did see this last night when doing some research. Very unfortunate....




Very nice! Great little film....really shows off the craftsmanship.

Very good point on the GA hunt! I'll definitely be calling this week to see if they have any restrictions on the size of shell used. I've never done one of these before, so I don't know what to expect. Thanks for calling that out.

Loper, I got those guns years ago by serious shopping, mostly at The Big Reno Show.
As far as fit goes, it is a science and thick books have been written about it, too much for here. I had the very good fortune to spend the money to get a proper fit with a 'try stock' gun from an instructor at the old Harolds Club Skeet and Trap facility, north of Reno NV. When the session was done, I came away with some measurements to help in my search for properly fitting guns. He basically used the old H&H shooting school methods, not much more than mounting the gun, quickly firing at a black dot on a large white pattern board. Then he adjusted the stock to bring the pattern to the dot, in small increments. He had to correct my faulty technique quite a bit, raising my head, using the bead, etc etc. He got a little irked at me raising my head...and stuck a bandaid on my cheek and told me don't even get your finger near that trigger unless that bandaid is touching the stock. Took a couple hours, but it was the best bargain ever. A couple years later, after finding the AYA, I went to Arizona to hunt doves, and it really paid off, didn't shame myself with some regionally famous competition shooters.

Take a look at the F.A.I.R. Iside, which is available for under $2,000 in the base model. They are very nice guns for the price point and are available in 16 and 20 gauge.

The Dickinsons are also nice guns.

V. Bernardelli sxs were nice guns. I have a Gamecock 20 gauge I've owned since 1977.

Besides the Ugartcheas, the AYA 4/53 boxlocks are quality Spanish guns, but probably somewhat above your price point.

Fox Sterlingworth and some Fox A grade 16 guns will be available within your budget if you're not looking for a collector level gun.

if you shoot mostly repeaters with conventional dimensions , beware of switching out to a s by s with double triggers and straight grip , I bought one a few years back and have found I dont hit with it as well as my repeaters or o/u.....in addition there is not alot of room in the trigger guard for a heavy glove , something to think about if heading for the Dakotas in late fall

on the other hand I have found I adapt to a s/s with a single trigger and pistol grip with no problem

dont overlook a 28 bore , my opinion is they kill as well as a 20 unless you shoot 3 inch mags

When looking at a SXS close your eyes and mount the SXS THEN open your eyes.

If you are NOT looking down the center rib WITHOUT adjusting your mount, it does NOT FIT and will not make you happy in the field..............

Before you spend good money, read the book The ORVIS Guide to Gunfitting by Tom Deck. Time and money well spent.

A new inexpensive SXS might not make you happy.

Tell me how that is any different than mounting any other shotgun.

If you aren’t looking down the center of any shotgun, being an auto or O/O, they don’t compensate for poor alignment.