What is the best 12ga. pump?

I've been looking at pump shotguns in perticuler win. 1300, rem. 870, moss 500, and brownings pump. I would like feelings you have on the differnce be tween theese gun. I would use it mostly for turky, deer and non-compitition seet. I was wondering if any one had had problems with there guns that may make me reconsider the brand i purches. , thanks

in perticuler i was wundering if any one had experiesc with the win. 1300. i know litle about wincheters pump guns. I was thinking of geting a gun that i could get interchangibel barils so i could use a rifled baril for slugs. , thatnks for any imput

I have a Winchester 1300, and I like it quite a bit. I especially like the safety in the front of the trigger guard instead of the back. Most folks on these boards talk up the Remington 870 though. I can't say, because I never had one.

Im just the opposite. Ive never owned a 1300 but I sure cant complain about any 870 Ive ever owned and Ive had several.Duck hunting is my favorite type of hunting and Im pretty hard on equipment. I need a gun that can get wet and muddy and still work. 870's do that for me.Oh sure, youre probably gonna have guys reply who had one and it wouldnt shoot or jammed or say something else bad about em, but they make a pretty interesting claim on their website. They say the 870 is the most popular shotgun ever made and that they have sold over 6 million of them. If you made 6 million of anything, youre bound to have problems with a few. Most of them work just like you want em too though.------------------ <A HREF="http://TheSouthernOutdoorsman.com" TARGET=_blank>TheSouthernOutdoorsman.com</A>

I have had some of all 4 of these, and some others as well. I still have a couple 870s and a BPS12. The 870 is the toughest, most forgiving shotgun ever made. It will digest anything you feed it and their repair record is incredible. I cannot even begin to guess how many cases of ammo I have cycled through my oldest 870, but the only problem it has ever had was a firing pin that broke at a flat machined out for a retainer pin. Every once in a while it would line up wrong and the gun would not fire. Took an embarrassingly long time to figure out what was wrong simply because it so seldom failed to shoot, in spite of the broken pin.That said, I despise the trigger guard safety, partly because it is not a firing pin stop, but mostly because of where it is. I make a top-tang safety for mine that does the same thing as the trigger stop safety, but gets actuated from the right place. Same thing works great on the 760/7600.The BPS is a tough shotgun also, and the down ejecting design is much more companion-friendly in a duck blind. Dropping the shells at your feet makes them easier for reloaders to pick up. It also is the only way to go for left-handed shooters.The Mossbergs do not feel right to me, opinion only. The Winchesters just do not cut it since they dropped the model 12, again my opinion. art------------------ Life is too short to hunt with an ugly gun.

The Winchester Model 1300 has got to be the smoothest shucking pumpgun on the market. I have a lot of hunting buddies who have them and all swear by them. I can't imagine you would be disappointed with a Winchester Model 1300.

I have looked at pichers of compleatly taken down win. 1300's and rem 870 and the magor diffence seemed to be the bolt. i know that the winchesters bolt makes a faster smother stroke but i was wundering if anyone knows if it is as dipendible as the 870.I can tell that the winchester fans are out numberd by the 870 fans but that may be because they have been making the same dipendible guns the same way for many years now. The people who have had most of the magor gus and have a fovorit have the most impact on me. Thanks for the info you've given!one other consern is the barlils, the winchester and moss cost much less that rem. and brownings. Dose any one know if this is one of those you pay for what you get type things, or there is just a higher mark up on some? [This message has been edited by I Need guns (edited May 24, 2001).]

Sitka deer and I are pretty much in complete agreement on this topic, although I have no problem with the trigger guard safety arrangement, since I started out shooting one in that position. And, as someone who has run, been president of, and wasted a lot of my kids(before I had them)inheritance on shotgun ranges, I feel a couple of comments are in order. First, I have seen literally dozens of guns go off for no apparent reason, most probably through human error, but some(I had one) for mechanical problems. Fortunately, at least while I was there, with no injuries, other than a bruised ego, after we discussed the proper way to handle a weapon for a while.The logical and only conclusion after you see this is that safeties are an aid, not an answer. The answer is to ALWAYS keep the gun pointed in a safe direction. And, if that is impossible, like at a shoot, you ALWAYS keep it empty with the action open until you can control the field of fire.As to different pump guns, of the currently manufactured guns, the 870 leads the pack as far a handling and reliability goes IMO. We had various hunters show up from time to time over the years, before bird season, usually, and they had a broad selection of moderately priced pumps. I honestly don't ever recall an 870 breaking and some of them looked like they had been through 3 wars and 2 disasters. Louisiana duck hunting is tough on guns if you get with the program. As far as the rest, the Mossbergs seemed to hold up fairly well, with some breakages, and the Winchesters---of that time, not sure of model designation, but not the M12, obviously---broke regularly. The BPS, which is a direct copy of the Ithaca 37, is reliable and a good gun for the money. Probably habit, but I prefer the way you can load and unload a 870.But, I understand that the 1300 is a new design and I have not had any experience with or around one, since children and life have restricted my clay activities in the last few years. It might be ok, but for the same money I would choose an 870 or the best bargain in Gundom, the 870 express magnum 3 1/2inch at Walmarts for about $275. It ain't pretty, but if you need a using gun, and take it out and shoot a box through it, and it works ok, then it will use for a long while without problems almost for sure. As far as the barrels go, get one with screw in chokes and that problem is solved, except for true slug barrels which probably need to be a separate system to be most accurate. So, IMO, unless you are buying a used gun without tubes, the cost of barrels is a moot point. And, no, I don't think you get what you pay for in barrels IN THIS CASE, a commercial moderately priced weapon's shotgun barrel is about as low tech as you can get in the barrel area, and one is pretty much like another. Good Shooting.

I found a nice setup on rem.'s website.Its a 870 express super mag. combo. It has a 26", 3 1/2" chamer, rem choke barrel and a 20", 3" chaber rifled barrel. The sugestid retails is $516 do you think that this is a good perches? the web site below is the gun that i have menchond. <A HREF="http://www.remington.com/firearms/shotguns/870SMCMB.HTM" TARGET=_blank>http://www.remington.com/firearms/shotguns/870SMCMB.HTM</A>

Well, it is the same gun as Walmart is selling for $275 minus the slug barrel. It depends on what you can buy it for as a set at a dealer, or what you could buy the slug barrel for seperately. Pretty simple calculation, and the real question is do you need a slug barrel? Only you know the answer to that. But it is a good choice for an all around gun.

i gess that i will now go to check the price of 870's and barils at local shops and the mall-mart. In cabelas there factry replacement barrrels are about 175 for a rifeld one so wallmarts price is a impovment.Do you think that a used gun would be much of a risk? How much dose it take to ware out a 870? ,Thanks for the edvice!

No, with 870s I don't think used is a big risk, but there is always some possibility of getting a lemon. I really don't think you could find that gun (3 1/2 ") used very easily and if you did I doubt that you would save much money. Maybe $50 and I would doubt that the used potential wear and problems are worth that, unless you just find a pristine example somewhere. What I am trying to say is that I think the Walmart deal is hard to beat and unless you get lucky you probably should go that way. And no, I don't own any Walmart stock.

I have 3 Mossbergs. Nothing against the other brands but the Mossbergs fit me, have never given me a hint of trouble, have a top tang safty, and are inexpensive.The most important thing is to buy one that FITS YOU.

Let me back up here a minute, I strongly support local gun dealers and think you should too and I use a friend of mine's shop every chance I get, even if it costs me a few more bucks, because I know if there are problems he will help me out.But, where I live, out in the sticks, there really are no local gun shops, more's the pity, and as far as common guns go, if you want one locally Walmarts is one of your few choices, and, because of their buying power they are very hard for a local gun dealer to compete with. I had no use for an 870 a couple of years back, but that price on that gun was too good to resist. I found, somewhat to my surprise, that I can point and shoot it very well on ducks, and don't mind using it for a stick to hold me up in the mud if the need arises, which it does where I hunt. Any local dealer who has any sense does not try to compete on Walmarts advertised models, they just stock better or other models or different brands. Most times Walmart can sell it for what the dealer can buy it for. Not much profit there for him, obviously.What I am trying to say is, if you can buy the same gun for a few bucks more at some local guys shop it would be money well spent IMO. good luck. CAT

I started shooting registered targets in 1969 with Remington 870 TC and after 175,000 registered targets (singles, doubles and hdcp) I moved up to a "better gun for doubles". I never had a problem with the Remington and it shoots as good today as it did then.I also have and use a Mossberg 835 Ulti-Mag for duck and turkey hunting and am pleased with it as well.If money isn't a problem look at a Bennali. They have a model that when a switch is in one position it is a pump in another position it is a semi-auto in the neighborhood of $700.00.I prefer to buy my firearms at a local gun shop if possible.Wall

Bennelis have another nice feature which is the stock shims to adjust the stock drop. It allows you to adjust the drop to exactly what works for you, leaving length of pull as the only other variable to worry about. art------------------ Life is too short to hunt with an ugly gun.

Are you guys talking about BENELLIs? LOLI haven't had one, but have heard one good report on the pump, and their autos are solid performers, one of the few,along with Berettas, that usually hold up under the extended pounding of South American dove shooting.

Are you the spell-check monitor this morning? I think your services are more urgently needed on other posts;-) art------------------ Life is too short to hunt with an ugly gun.

I'm sarry about my spelling, I'm a rilly bad speller and typer.---------------------- life last to long to pay for a "pritty gun" espshaly with gas prices so highI'll probaly check out a bunch of laocal shopes on Saturday & the loacal wall mart there is several stors with good suletion of used guns with in a 1 hour radous of my house. This would be my first real gun. The way things work in the massachusets govnment tick me off. I'm not glad that i live in mass for several govonmetal resens. I'm now 16 and i've spent along time to get my firearm licens. and a cant even buy anything being under 18, i just need it to hunt with a gun. Well this got a bit off topic. any way thank all of you who gave me advice[This message has been edited by I Need guns (edited May 25, 2001).]

I bought my son the 870 Super Mag at Macks Prairie Wings in Stuttgart, Arkansas two duck seasons ago for $269. The guy I bought it from told me they had ordered 600 of those guns just before duck season opened and they only had about 50 left.Im sure theyve ordered more since then but I dont have a clue what the price is now either.As for buying used guns, Ive been lucky I guess. I go out of my way sometimes to buy used guns instead of new and havent had any problems yet.------------------ <A HREF="http://TheSouthernOutdoorsman.com" TARGET=_blank>TheSouthernOutdoorsman.com</A>

i have both the mossberg and the remington. i have found that the remington is as durable as they get (i went crawling through the mud on a rainy day through corn stubble, ended up w/ a bunch of stuff in the magazine, and a really rough action, but still was able to fire and collect geese). i like how easy the rem breaks down for cleaning. i think it is a pretty heavy gun, but if you want a single shotgun to do it all, it's tough to beat a 3 1/2" 870. in october, you can find me going from geese in the morning (w/ 3 1/2" BBB's), to pheasants in the afternoon (low-brass 6's), back to geese in the evening, all w/ the 870 super mag. yes, it's heavy, but if i only want to take one gun to do it all, that is what i take.------------------ Hunting is not a matter of life or death. It is much more important than that.

I havent yet made a purchous. Somthing that i hered form a friend of my dad was that Remington is now making stamped parts insted of mishednd parts. This makes it harder to work on and they brake faster. For this resen I'm looking for a older gun. Has anyone herd of this? Dose anyone know about the other magor companys guns? , thanks

The 870 has had a bunch of stamped parts from day 1, I would not worry about it. art------------------ Life is too short to hunt with an ugly gun.

You might want to check out a Model 12, the finest pumpgun ever made - you can pick one up pretty reasonably and have thin wall chokes added if you're worried about shooting steel and versatility.

My first gun was a Winchester 1200 20 ga. pump. Said it was a full choke, but later discovered that the owner before me cut the choke off, making it basically a cylinder. Used for everthing until I turned 18 and got a Rem 1100 mag (used) for my birthday. Still use the 1200 for pheasants to this day. Very light, easy pointing and cycles every shell I've put in it. My brother had a Rem 870 for many years and just traded it in on a Browning Gold. He was deadly with the 870. I'll never give up my 1200/20 ga. even though it only shoots 2-3/4 inch shells. Something about that first gun that makes you hold on to it. I just purchased a Benelli SBE (left handed even!) and plan to use it for everything. Daubs

The M37 Ithaca is often overlooked for the mass production (stamped cast) pumps. It is the best pump being made and assembled the old fashioned way so they cost more but still affordable. Can be ordered to your specs. Go to Ithaca Gun Co. site.Won't say anything bad about 870 or BPS but they are not of the quality of a 37.There is a fairly large following of 37 owners. If they catch your post they will boast of the 37 above all others now made and along with the mod 12.

I Need guns,My advice to you would be this: Go to a gunshop and look at all the pumps that interest, handle them all and if you can afford it purchase the one you like the best and the one that seems to fit you the best. I'm partial to the Rem 870s having used them since '67, had a few and own at the present time a 12ga and a 20ga. My son has a Mossberg 500, son-in-law has a 870 Express and I have friends that own Win 1200 or 1300s. As far as I can see they are all good shotguns, I'm just partial to the Wingmasters.Good Shooting, George

2 words--- 870 Wingmaster!!! (notice i didnt say 'Express', WINGMASTER)...gut

My vote, 870 Wingmaster. I have used one since I was a kid, in my opinion there is nothing better in slide actions. The Model 12 was also an excellent pump, most know it for the fact that it can be what we Texans call slam fired. In other words hold the trigger down and it can be fired on the forward stroke of the action. There have been many accidental discharges with a Model 12 in the hands of someone who knows not how to handle one. As for the Ithaca 37, another good one, the older ones as well were slam fire capable. I never liked a bottom eject pump, too hard to clean in my opinion. Most folks will also say the 870 Express is the same gun as the Wingmaster. The Wingmaster is much smoother and fit / finish a lot better. The express is a good buy for the money, but its not a Wingmaster.

thats right stroker, the express aint the same, fit is sloppy, its not anywhere near as smooth as the Wingmaster, i own a older Wingmaster, its a mid to late 70's mfg. my brother owns an express, when you get the two guns side to side, there is no comparison between the two, the wingmaster is butter-smooth, the express is much rougher, the slide almost has a 'ratchety' feel, and the express is also hard to load, the magazine is so tight on it that you have to wear gloves to thumb shells in it, or it will wear your thumbs out to punch the shells in. Remington has a good, reliable, economical shotgun in the express, its good to beat around with, its built to take abuse, but it aint no Wingmaster!!! gutpile

I know a goose guide who buys a used 870 express every year at the open of the season. Hunts with it all season, never cleans it and throws it in the bay when he is done. He sais its a ritual. I call it stupidity, although you do need a tetnus shot to handle the thing by the end of the season.

John Browning designed an improved pump shotgun just after WWI, and Remington was the first manufacturer. It was called the Model 17, was available in 20 gauge, and was thought to be the finest pump shotgun ever made, by people like Elmer Keith and many others... Remington dropped the Browning license when they started making their newly designed pump shotgun, the Model 31, and Browning then sold the rights to Ithaca. The Remington Model 31 was the first modern pump shotgun, had easily interchangeable barrels, and what many crack shotgunners claimed was the smoothest action of any pump, including the Winchester Model 12. Of course, the Model 12 was developed 19 years earlier... The Model 31 was the first shotgun that a crack shot could successfully use to break five clay targets that were hand thrown into the air...Meanwhile, Ithaca started producing the Browning patent pump, and called it the Model 37, and it became very popular, as it was less expensive and available in many gauges and options. And Ithaca kept on producing it until they went out of business a many years later. And the reconstituted company is now offering a similar gun again.When Ithaca went out of business, Browning started producing the patented pump gun in Japan, and called it the BPS. And it's still available.Sometime in the '50s, Remington made a gutsy decision, that they could no longer afford to manufacture and sell American made guns made entirely of machined parts, and they stopped making the Model 31 and started making the Model 870, using stamped parts and die castings wherever possible.And the other American manufacturers, including Winchester and Ithaca, fudged on this critical decision, and eventually went out of business, at least as far as making production shotguns...So, if you hunt waterfowl, and you want the absolutely best American pump shotgun ever made for hunting waterfowl, look for a 3" Magnum Winchester Model 12.And if you hunt upland game, or play any of the clay sports, and you want the finest American pump shotgun developed for these activities, look for a Competition grade Remington Model 31...And if you want the best American pump shotgun still in production, pick up a Remington Model 870... Any model will do the job...I have a couple of each of these fine American guns in my closet, and I still shoot them all. Good hunting...

I've never seen a Model 12 Winchester with a three inch chamber. Mine is a very old one, it only shoots 2 3/4 shells.

I just bought a gun for "Buy a gun day". It is a Winchester model 12. 30" barrel - 3" chamber, full choke.The state won't let me have it for another week, but I'm looking forward to doing in some ducks this fall.Scott

This topic is quite old, but to put a end to it, I now am the owner of a Rem 870, 3" mag with a 26" barrel, i think that it is a '90 modle. But the best thing is that i was given it. My dad was friends with a guy who got a shotgun about 10 years back and han't don't much hunting so he gave it to me. It have only been fired about 3 time. He was given his first shotgun and wanted to give me my first. well i gotta' check season dates to see what i can shoot at right now [img]images/icons/laugh.gif" border="0[/img] .

Well, I'll go out on a limb a little and say that in my opinion the Remington Model 870 is the best pump shotgun EVER made. By anybody, anytime.
 You will hear all the old Winchester Model 12 fans yell and moan, but where is the Model 12 today? True, it has taken on almost cult status, and I know all about production costs and all that, but the fact is it didn't survive. It did not function one bit better than the 870, in fact it was not as reliable statistically, and it lacked an interrupter. While this may be a plus for the slam fire artists, most hardly view it as an asset. And, if anyone else remembers that far back, when the 870 and the 1100 arrived on the scene one of the often heard comments was that they pointed like a Model 12 (which I will admit is darned good) to most people.
 Every brand will have it's loyal followers, and some people love the bottom eject old Remingtons, Ithacas, and Brownings, and I say more power to them all. But remember, Remington hasn't sold 6 million of them for nothing.

Virginian, --- The model 12 is gone because the craftsmen are gone, it costs too much to machine them. I won't kick a history maker. This day and age most department store guns are about equal. Just personal preference as to fit and feel.
 Today, I personally would buy the 870 because of following, depenability, resale, reputation, accessories, and many more pluses. I would rate with a Ruger 10-22 for popularity. -- no

I've owned and hunted with the Win. M12, BPS, Win m1200, 870 Express, 870 Wingmaster, and Ithaca 37. Have hunted with the Mossberg 500.
 
 They're all good solid performers. The win. 1300 (1200) is very underated.
 
 All I've got left are a 30" full plain barrel 2and3/4 Wingmaster and two Ithaca 37's , a riot gun and a Deerslayer, both 2 and 3/4.
 
 For the heavy stuff there is Dad's old Ithaca Mag-10.
 
 The 37's appeal to me for their design/quality. They flat work. Excellent defense gun or deer gun.
 The Wingmaster shoulders and swings like a dream.