Home Forums Birds & Dogs Shotguns What is the best 12ga. pump?

i have both the mossberg and the remington. i have found that the remington is as durable as they get (i went crawling through the mud on a rainy day through corn stubble, ended up w/ a bunch of stuff in the magazine, and a really rough action, but still was able to fire and collect geese). i like how easy the rem breaks down for cleaning. i think it is a pretty heavy gun, but if you want a single shotgun to do it all, it's tough to beat a 3 1/2" 870. in october, you can find me going from geese in the morning (w/ 3 1/2" BBB's), to pheasants in the afternoon (low-brass 6's), back to geese in the evening, all w/ the 870 super mag. yes, it's heavy, but if i only want to take one gun to do it all, that is what i take.<P>------------------<BR>Hunting is not a matter of life or death. It is much more important than that.

I havent yet made a purchous. Somthing that i hered form a friend of my dad was that Remington is now making stamped parts insted of mishednd parts. This makes it harder to work on and they brake faster. For this resen I'm looking for a older gun. Has anyone herd of this? Dose anyone know about the other magor companys guns?<BR>, thanks

The 870 has had a bunch of stamped parts from day 1, I would not worry about it.<BR>art<P>------------------<BR>Life is too short to hunt with an ugly gun.

You might want to check out a Model 12, the finest pumpgun ever made - you can pick one up pretty reasonably and have thin wall chokes added if you're worried about shooting steel and versatility.

My first gun was a Winchester 1200 20 ga. pump. Said it was a full choke, but later discovered that the owner before me cut the choke off, making it basically a cylinder. Used for everthing until I turned 18 and got a Rem 1100 mag (used) for my birthday. Still use the 1200 for pheasants to this day. Very light, easy pointing and cycles every shell I've put in it. <P>My brother had a Rem 870 for many years and just traded it in on a Browning Gold. He was deadly with the 870. <P>I'll never give up my 1200/20 ga. even though it only shoots 2-3/4 inch shells. Something about that first gun that makes you hold on to it. I just purchased a Benelli SBE (left handed even!) and plan to use it for everything. <P>Daubs

The M37 Ithaca is often overlooked for the mass production (stamped cast) pumps. It is the best pump being made and assembled the old fashioned way so they cost more but still affordable. Can be ordered to your specs. Go to Ithaca Gun Co. site.<P>Won't say anything bad about 870 or BPS but they are not of the quality of a 37.<P>There is a fairly large following of 37 owners. If they catch your post they will boast of the 37 above all others now made and along with the mod 12.

I Need guns,<P>My advice to you would be this: Go to a gunshop and look at all the pumps that interest, handle them all and if you can afford it purchase the one you like the best and the one that seems to fit you the best. I'm partial to the Rem 870s having used them since '67, had a few and own at the present time a 12ga and a 20ga. My son has a Mossberg 500, son-in-law has a 870 Express and I have friends that own Win 1200 or 1300s. As far as I can see they are all good shotguns, I'm just partial to the Wingmasters.<P>Good Shooting,<BR>George

2 words--- 870 Wingmaster!!! (notice i didnt say 'Express', WINGMASTER)...gut

My vote, 870 Wingmaster. I have used one since I was a kid, in my opinion there is nothing better in slide actions. The Model 12 was also an excellent pump, most know it for the fact that it can be what we Texans call slam fired. In other words hold the trigger down and it can be fired on the forward stroke of the action. There have been many accidental discharges with a Model 12 in the hands of someone who knows not how to handle one. <P>As for the Ithaca 37, another good one, the older ones as well were slam fire capable. I never liked a bottom eject pump, too hard to clean in my opinion. <P>Most folks will also say the 870 Express is the same gun as the Wingmaster. The Wingmaster is much smoother and fit / finish a lot better. The express is a good buy for the money, but its not a Wingmaster.

thats right stroker, the express aint the same, fit is sloppy, its not anywhere near as smooth as the Wingmaster, i own a older Wingmaster, its a mid to late 70's mfg. my brother owns an express, when you get the two guns side to side, there is no comparison between the two, the wingmaster is butter-smooth, the express is much rougher, the slide almost has a 'ratchety' feel, and the express is also hard to load, the magazine is so tight on it that you have to wear gloves to thumb shells in it, or it will wear your thumbs out to punch the shells in. Remington has a good, reliable, economical shotgun in the express, its good to beat around with, its built to take abuse, but it aint no Wingmaster!!! gutpile

I know a goose guide who buys a used 870 express every year at the open of the season. Hunts with it all season, never cleans it and throws it in the bay when he is done. He sais its a ritual. I call it stupidity, although you do need a tetnus shot to handle the thing by the end of the season.

John Browning designed an improved pump shotgun just after WWI, and Remington was the first manufacturer. It was called the Model 17, was available in 20 gauge, and was thought to be the finest pump shotgun ever made, by people like Elmer Keith and many others... Remington dropped the Browning license when they started making their newly designed pump shotgun, the Model 31, and Browning then sold the rights to Ithaca. <P>The Remington Model 31 was the first modern pump shotgun, had easily interchangeable barrels, and what many crack shotgunners claimed was the smoothest action of any pump, including the Winchester Model 12. Of course, the Model 12 was developed 19 years earlier... The Model 31 was the first shotgun that a crack shot could successfully use to break five clay targets that were hand thrown into the air...<P>Meanwhile, Ithaca started producing the Browning patent pump, and called it the Model 37, and it became very popular, as it was less expensive and available in many gauges and options. And Ithaca kept on producing it until they went out of business a many years later. And the reconstituted company is now offering a similar gun again.<P>When Ithaca went out of business, Browning started producing the patented pump gun in Japan, and called it the BPS. And it's still available.<P>Sometime in the '50s, Remington made a gutsy decision, that they could no longer afford to manufacture and sell American made guns made entirely of machined parts, and they stopped making the Model 31 and started making the Model 870, using stamped parts and die castings wherever possible.<P>And the other American manufacturers, including Winchester and Ithaca, fudged on this critical decision, and eventually went out of business, at least as far as making production shotguns...<P>So, if you hunt waterfowl, and you want the absolutely best American pump shotgun ever made for hunting waterfowl, look for a 3" Magnum Winchester Model 12.<P>And if you hunt upland game, or play any of the clay sports, and you want the finest American pump shotgun developed for these activities, look for a Competition grade Remington Model 31...<P>And if you want the best American pump shotgun still in production, pick up a Remington Model 870... Any model will do the job...<P>I have a couple of each of these fine American guns in my closet, and I still shoot them all. Good hunting...

I've never seen a Model 12 Winchester with a three inch chamber. Mine is a very old one, it only shoots 2 3/4 shells.

I just bought a gun for "Buy a gun day". It is a Winchester model 12. 30" barrel - 3" chamber, full choke.<P>The state won't let me have it for another week, but I'm looking forward to doing in some ducks this fall.<P>Scott

This topic is quite old, but to put a end to it, I now am the owner of a Rem 870, 3" mag with a 26" barrel, i think that it is a '90 modle. But the best thing is that i was given it. My dad was friends with a guy who got a shotgun about 10 years back and han't don't much hunting so he gave it to me. It have only been fired about 3 time. He was given his first shotgun and wanted to give me my first. well i gotta' check season dates to see what i can shoot at right now [img]images/icons/laugh.gif" border="0[/img] .

Well, I'll go out on a limb a little and say that in my opinion the Remington Model 870 is the best pump shotgun EVER made. By anybody, anytime.
<br>You will hear all the old Winchester Model 12 fans yell and moan, but where is the Model 12 today? True, it has taken on almost cult status, and I know all about production costs and all that, but the fact is it didn't survive. It did not function one bit better than the 870, in fact it was not as reliable statistically, and it lacked an interrupter. While this may be a plus for the slam fire artists, most hardly view it as an asset. And, if anyone else remembers that far back, when the 870 and the 1100 arrived on the scene one of the often heard comments was that they pointed like a Model 12 (which I will admit is darned good) to most people.
<br>Every brand will have it's loyal followers, and some people love the bottom eject old Remingtons, Ithacas, and Brownings, and I say more power to them all. But remember, Remington hasn't sold 6 million of them for nothing.

Virginian, --- The model 12 is gone because the craftsmen are gone, it costs too much to machine them. I won't kick a history maker. This day and age most department store guns are about equal. Just personal preference as to fit and feel.
<br>Today, I personally would buy the 870 because of following, depenability, resale, reputation, accessories, and many more pluses. I would rate with a Ruger 10-22 for popularity. -- no

I've owned and hunted with the Win. M12, BPS, Win m1200, 870 Express, 870 Wingmaster, and Ithaca 37. Have hunted with the Mossberg 500.
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<br>They're all good solid performers. The win. 1300 (1200) is very underated.
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<br>All I've got left are a 30" full plain barrel 2and3/4 Wingmaster and two Ithaca 37's , a riot gun and a Deerslayer, both 2 and 3/4.
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<br>For the heavy stuff there is Dad's old Ithaca Mag-10.
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<br>The 37's appeal to me for their design/quality. They flat work. Excellent defense gun or deer gun.
<br>The Wingmaster shoulders and swings like a dream.