Curious what you folks use/recommend for a good quality hunting O/U in 20?

What barrel length is preferred, for rabbits, possible dove, etc? Guessing 28 but any downside to 26?

3" Recommended? What choke tubes. Seen some 'Value priced' off brands which come in less than the Beretta's and Browning's, etc.

Thoughts? Thanks in advance for your feedback.

I would much rather buy a good condition used Browning, Beretta, SKB, ect. than a value priced off brand. For the small game you mentioned a 28" barrel length would be about right and 2.75" field loads get it done.

30" for me and 32' DON'T SCARE ME!

You can't go wrong with a cared for used Beretta.

There are low end (cheaper) options out there, however I always prefer a well made gun. This is my preference, others will vary.
There's an old, but very true saying or adage, "when you buy quality you only cry once".

The want ads / classifieds/gunbroker are filled with used guns that have probems.


When SKB first came to populaity they were frowned upon by many for not being a remington/browning (haha)/ etc.

I buy used very frequently, but that used "better" gun you buy has a far better chance of being someones lemon than the gun they kept.


"Hey, I bought this gun and it had problems, but I kept it"

" I bought it, it had problems, so I moved it down the road."

You tell me which is most likely.


All that said, lots of new stuff is to a rpice point. You can take advantage of wage disparity if you like. Its real.

I do both.

Beretta would be a no-go for me due to their lack of concern for customer issues.

Browning has always been my preferred line of smokepoles with Remington second. There has never been a shotgunning need that either of those two brands could not meet.

I used a Citori 12 ga for many years, then I learned from the haters it was junk because it would break after 50,000 rounds...
rofl. I figure I had used 5% of that in all the years I had it, so the guy I sold it too has 45K rounds left before it melts down.

I think the very best 20ga O/U I've shot was my Browning Superposed Lightning 20ga, for me it was quick, light and just a pheasant killing machine with 2 3/4" 1oz #5's, second had to be a Win 101 20ga Skeet gun. Both are long gone but remembered fondly.

For me there is no downside to the 26", the upside is they can be found cheaper now as they are out of fashion. My favorite bird gun has 25" barrels. Doves might be a little better with a 28" but the 26" would be the way to go in the rabbit woods.

That is funny! I have bought probably close to 100 used shotguns. Not a problem with a single one of them. The first used shotgun I ever bought was a Winchester Model 21 Duck Grade back in 1985. I have bought at least 20 used Beretta's ranging from the 390 to a DT10. I have owned a bunch of old used Parker's, Lefever's, Ithaca NID's, AH Fox, and LC Smith's. As well as some British double guns. No problems! I have several used Benelli M1 Super 90's which happen to be my favorite Duck gun ever. All perform flawlessly.

This Lemon was so bad I decided to spend a bunch of money on a new custom stock!

Nice wood, and info folks, helps A Lot.......so a guy was hunting yesterday with a 101 he bought back in the 70s or 80s.....it was a 28" 20, IIRC, and he had an IC and perhaps a MC.

I was thinking perhaps the O/U design was fairly robust and would last with little trouble - even the off brands, but I may have assumed wrong.

So are the 101s less money than a similar Browning? I assume they are both solid guns? I've heard issues about Customer service before with Beretta since buying Sako.........too bad given their long history.

So not many folks seem to feel a need for a 3" in a 20 O/U for what they use it for it seems. Thanks everyone!

Yep, obviously a POS SxS only good for firewood....Laffin!
😎
MCH,
Who did your stock work?

Since my Bud MCH is playing....

Was going to let two things go since it was early Christmas morning. However, while still in the spirit, I have not bought 100, but a few and have yet to get something I didn't want or was broke. Second there is a good chance I may have spent more time in the Grouse woods than almost all here. Gave up on the thought a short 26inch SxS or O/U was any advantage a long time ago.

Anyway 29.5inch, and any shorter I wouldn't have bought it. Great for Doves and just a little heavy for Pheasants. Looking into having a set of light 16Gauge barrels made. Fixed chokes and 29.5 inch. Along with a field forearm it will be quick....








Addition: MCH, nice!!!!

Beretta has been working on improving their customer service reputation. While it used to be slow, they most often did good work. I would have little hesitation buying a Beretta.

SxS and O/U take a certain amount of care and skill to be done right. Not sure what you mean by off brands, but be careful how far you go down the hole.

Any opinions on the sauer apollon (sp) o/u......sportsmans ran a cyber sale recently marked down from $2200 to $1200.....is a 20 gauge in one of these something one should keep an eye out for in the future if a similar price occurs?

Sauer makes some great high end shotguns. The Apollon has gotten good reviews and seems to be a solid design. It is made by one of the Italian makers for Sauer.

Other than that, many try to come into the American O/U market and find it difficult when they often have success over in Europe.

In full disclosure of all things honest...I’ve owned four O/U....A Weatherby Orion, Browning Citori and a couple of Beretta’s over the years. I have sold all of them...Aside from me carrying a beautiful O/U shotgun into a field or duck blind. My O/U was basically a single shot in my hands.

I’m really not sure if it was physiological, improper fit and feel or just very poor shooting, but I surrendered more first shots into the wind that only served as a warning shot to the feathers I was trying to kill.

For that matter, I always struggled with any rounded receiver shaped shotgun, such as the legendary Remington 1100. If I have a shotgun with a squared receiver like a Benelli SBE or any Brownie A5 I’m deadly...Any idea why that is? I’m okay hearing “You Suck” as a reason too....🙄😎

You need to look into "fit" before anything else, if it doesn't point where you are looking it is nothing but a burden that you carry through the woods, improved and modified chokes will get you through most seasons and 3 " is nice for late season ringnecks .

SKB's 101"s and Charles Daily's are all Japanese made and great quality for the money, Brownings are nice, and Red labels are heavy, but it all still goes back to how it "fits you" that make the difference, in quick, clean killer or just a nice gun.

Wenig

The majority of people that say they like short barrels from my experience:

A) Are not very good shots with a shotgun.

B) do not understand what the length of the barrel does for the shooter!

With that said if you can't swing a 28" or 30" barrel because you claim the grouse or woodcock woods you hunt are too thick, you can't swing the 26" either!

Maine Grouse Hunting, 30" Ithaca Classic Doubles NID 4E. I hunted that gun from Connecticut, Rhode Island, Vermont, New Hampshire, Maine, New York, Georgia, Alabama, Louisiana, Michigan, and Idaho before I sold it. Never had an issue with swinging it.


Battue I know you can shoot, and I know you can hit chit with a 26" barrel. As there are some others on here that I know can as well. But we are all better with longer barrels! If we weren't than the trend in Trap, Skeet, Sporting, FITASC, and Pigeons wouldn't be 29" and longer!

FIT ??????

Unless one does what MCH did and has a custom stock made, how does someone arrive at a great fit with the examples you mentioned? They are all essentially made to the same dimensions.

What are the odds of someone his size, finding something mass produced that fits him?

They are made for Mr 5’10”, short neck, 170lbs and size 38-40 chest. Almost all will have neutral cast. How many does that fit?

When they are made the same, what does Mr non-average do? Actually Mr Average doesn’t necessarily meet their standards either. They guess on dimensions, yet a good fit, is a fairly exact set of individual dimensions.

So how does one arrive with a mass produced shotgun that fits? For those that care, they go to the effort of making it fit. Most don’t, and with an off the shelf, close is about as good as they will get. Which may not be all that bad.

Additionally unless they a have a repeatable mount, any good shot gun fitter will be guessing on the numbers, or ideally tell them to come back when they do.



Fit: Length of pull, drop at comb, drop at heel, cast and pitch....throw in grip dimensions for small or big hands. Off the shelf field O/U SKB's, Brownings and whatever, are pretty much all the same. One may feel better than another, but that doesn't necessarily mean it is a better fit.

I have 5 o/u shotguns and every one comes to the cheek and point of aim different, I have an Ithica, "SKB' model 500 with short barrels that I have killed a train load of birds with, it certainly "fits differently than my Red label,the Ruger weighs more, is longer and I can't hit chit with it, I blame it on "fit" it points no where near I look, when the gun is shouldered.

I shoot 44-46 at sporting clays and 95-97 at skeek with 20 gauge guns,And I have earned more than a few dollars shooting live birds, I'm not much of a trap shooter, the whole mounted gun thing just isn't for me, and in my mind, most people who shoot poorly do so because they are shooting guns that don't fit them. Take a look at a mans face after shooting 100 rounds, look at his scores most will decrease as the day progresses, why ? Because the gun has slapped his face all day and now his head is off the stock and he is shooting over the birds, "fit" matters .

You are contradicting yourself on a couple points, but shows some agreement with my thoughts that close is usually pretty good.

You shoot skeet international style?

88-92 on top shelf SC tournaments with a 20 will place you on the edge of elite master class. Great shooting.

Adding or removing recoil pads, and the cloths you wear while shooting/ hunting also changes the "fit" of shotguns, the gun you shoot doves with in September, will not be your best bet in a November duck blind, the same can be said about your walk about grouse gun, "fit" does make you a better wingshot .

Adding or removing recoil pads, and the cloths you wear while shooting/ hunting also changes the "fit" of shotguns, the gun you shoot doves with in September, will not be your best bet in a November duck blind, the same can be said about your walk about grouse gun, "fit" does make you a better wingshot .

I guess I already said that !

Growing up in the 70's we bought red dot in 15 lb kegs and shot by the pallet, for 3 of us, my brother ,father and myself, in those days I shot a 12 gauge because I thought you needed to, I don't shoot much any more, but when I do its with a 410.
Shotgunning is something that came very natural to me.

Thank you and Merry Christmas.

Great stuff folks! Today, I was squirrel hunting with a 22.....and jumped a Woodcock........first one I've seen in perhaps 30+ years!

IF I had a nice 20 O/U I would have likely dropped it. Are IC and Modified the way to go for rabbits and upland game? What ranges will they limit you to say Doves? Thanks. All posts above have great info - thanks folks!

I shot a woodcock on my deer hunting grounds in Texas as a "Yute". turned it in on my hunter survey form.. the USFWS mailed me wing envelopes for about 10 years after that, I never even saw another one there after that. but they are cool birds.

on the O/U I would definitely go with IC and Mod

WHY? Even if you don't get a good even pattern with one or the other or both?

Plenty of options, handle some and one will just feel right. Stick with the big names and you’ll likely be happy. I’d roll 28” tubes. 3” chamber. Why? More and more states are requiring nontoxic loads on public land. 3” shells give you the option of a bit bigger payload with steel shot (by far the most common nontox). For rabbit and doves, mod over ic or ic over cylinder if shots are close. Good patterns are more important than constriction though so run the chokes that pattern best.

Have guns that come with choke tubes. My preference are fixed choke guns when given a choice.

I shoot with literally 100's of different people during the year. Some average, many being really good, to occasionally being squaded with a world champion. Some use choke tubes, some have fixed barrels. They use every brand of shell that is currently on the market . Some switch around and use whatever decent shell they can get at a good price. Other than point of impact, the overwhelming majority of them worry more about putting the shot on target and very little about how they pattern. Cylinder is open and and as they tighten up so does the pattern. They test on targets and not paper.

I've watched good and great shotgunners given a random gun to shoot, and quickly start breaking targets that most people can't imagine breaking. Fit is important, but what is perfect? Seen some consistently break a long range target with IC and others do the same with everything in between. One three time National Champion won a New Ithaca Double, SxS 26inch barrels, with probably IC/Mod. He is a big guy, and it looked like a toy in his hands. Fit, I'll leave that to your imagination. He took it to a Make a Break game and asked them to throw the 50 yard crosser. Took maybe 10 to 12 shots and he was breaking it consistently. Shells? They were whatever they had on hand. Fit most certainly was off a little, shells were what was available, choke was what was in the gun.

There are people that know how to point a shotgun and it seems the better they are, the least they worry about the little things most of us talk about on here.

To a guy that shoots 5 to 8 thousand birds a year, you are right, he will beat most people with their own gun, just like a pro golfer, he will beat you with your wives, clubs and shag balls, but to the guy that goes out, and shoots a couple of boxes of shells at doves in September, and another box or two at rabbits and what few grouse are left, I still feel he will be far more successful with a shotgun that come to cheek, quick and naturally, without getting hung upon a brush jacket and a stock with enough drop to make your eye plane parallel with the vent rib without lifting one's head off the stock.

But that's just my humble opinion.

For a guy that shoots your quoted 4 boxes of shells a year, fit isn’t going to help him much. Especially on the hard stuff. Similar to a person that shoots a couple boxes of rifle shells a year. You can give him the best long range rifle made and they are not going to connect all that often at 600 plus on the hard opportunities.

For any sport or mental endeavor, doing it along with being challenged ones the skill.

I’ve only seen one “natural” and he only shot on occasion because it made his Dad happy.
The guy was a fighter pilot in his prime. I think perhaps he saw spatial relationships the rest of us were lacking.

This is how the people that are good at anything got there. It's been proven over and over. Four boxes of shotgun shells a year, even with a perfect fit, won't get any even close....barrel length, chokes, what shell, etc are crutches on the path of hoping to be good. They won't get you there.

The book may bore you to death, but it answers the question of why and how.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree, I think a good "fitting" shotgun is the key to good consistent shooting, you don't, so be it. I hope the new year is a great one for you and yours.

Sorry, I don't agree to disagree. Which is OK also. Nor do we completely disagree on fit. If only you would read my words. Happy New year to you and yours also.

The key is repetition. Not only repetition, but deliberate repetition. The book my bore you to a scream, but the answers to how and why are there.

You can give a new violinist a Stradivarious (Sp?), but they will not be able to play it well. You don't shoot well on 4 boxes a year. Fit or no fit, IC or Mod, pattern or not, 26, 28, or 32.....

To repeatedly do something the wrong way, over and over again, only makes you really good, at doing it naturally wrong with great consistently.

I believe the number one reason shooters "miss" is because they lift their heads off of the stock, for any one of numerous reasons, but they will miss every time they do it.

Yes, but I didn’t even suggest that was the path. Although it is also proven one can learn much from their mistakes.

Some sports gurus even suggest one to do it wrong, which enables one to recognize wrong.

With repetition, not so.

I agree lifting thier heads. Not following through. Flinch on account of recoil. Not patterning thier gun. Fit is very subjective as others have said.

I can't stand behind a young shooter watching every shot, I can't remind him to follow thru the shot, or to keep his head down, but I can help him shoot a shotgun that mounts consistently and put a pay load on target. The rest is up to him,

I have watched dozens of youngsters fail miserably, because someone is try to get them into the shooting sports, with a gun that was more fit for kayaking than shooting clays!

With a new shooter, close is good enough. If you know how, you would be giving them a much better lesson with teaching them how to use their eyes, setting up with a good hold point, blending in with the target speed, rather than fretting over exact fit.

Those boys in the video are shooting with their eyes. 👀
The hands follow the eyes, once you have learned to use and trust them.

The eyes are the easy part, if you can keep them away from idiots that keep telling them to close one !

Using the eyes ARE the hard part.

Almost all will say after a big win, their eyes are wore out from focusing hard on the target.

I was taught that the only thing that you are shooting at was the words "White Flyer" in the center of the target . I hated shooting remington targets !

Great advice!!!! Although the pros today recommend the leading edge. 🙂

Morning Bat and Jimy....Jumping in with a couple things. First there is a very nice Citori O/U in 16ga in our classifieds for $1250.

Yes, I saw it last night, but I passed, and you know why....Take a look, tell me what you think. I did get an itch looking it over that maybe?.....I would be better with one now....Hands in my pockets, looking towards the sky, thinking maybe this o/u would be different.


https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...re-fs-browning-citori-16-ga#Post14407207

Dad, taught us boys forward leading edge shooting, but he called it “Bill Shooting” on ducks and geese or “Shooting heads on pheasants”. That was 40 years ago. I guess nothing has changed in how birds fly...This still works.

I watched a trap competition once in person....The shotgunners seemed to have a timing or internal cadence in their head from the moment they called the bird to pulling the trigger making smoke outta the clays.

None of them seemed to follow a clay, but maybe 1.5 seconds above the trap house. Didn’t appear as difficult as shooting Skeet 😎

Leaving for work. I’m a 16 Gauge guy. Brownings are great if you like them. Price is fair if it is in great shape. A little high if it is dinged.

Hate to admit this, but that style Browning personally doesn’t fit me all that well. 😀😳

My father shot Brownings very well, but for me, they don't fit at all, way to much drop. The only thing I shoot worse is a s/s I quit embarrassing myself with them a long time ago !

Good stuff guys, learning a lot more than I expected. Dad was a great trap and wing shooter, smoked ducks and all. Won MANY trophy's back in the day, he reloaded often. Mostly shot custom stocked Model 12s, but also had a Krieghoff.

His buddy....was a guru, some may have heard of this local guy who has since passed. He was fooling with mercury in gun stocks decades ago, along with anything he thought might give him an edge. He was always helping folks at the gun club.

https://www.legacy.com/obituaries/shreveporttimes/obituary.aspx?pid=157648731

Jimy most of what you have to say is true. However you are ten steps ahead of the point Battue is making. None of your advise and no perfectly fitted stock is going to magically make a guy or gal that shoots 100 +/- rounds a year a good shooter or even a better shooter. It may let me say this again it may make them hit a few more at that time.

I made it 4 punches shy from Master Class with a poorly fitted shotgun. Ask Battue about my homemade stock job!

I wanted to shoot sporting clays with the gun I hunt with the most. A Benelli M1 Super 90. So I made it work.

The best advice I can give to anyone truly wanting to shoot a shotgun well is these few points.

1) Take the bead off your barrel!

2) Shoot as much as you can!

3) Shoot with guys/gals that know how to teach! Accept their pointers and maybe book a lesson or two with them.

4) Shoot Sporting Clays Tournaments.

Work on your hold point/insertion point/break point.

Battue's point about the eyes is the most valid in this post. If your eyes are not tired after shooting a round of a 100 you were not focusing enough on the target!

This is a good tip, gents.

I inherited my grandfather’s 101. A late 60’s model iirc choked ic/mod. It needed a good cleanup internally (not shooting the 2nd shot) but has been truly a death ray on birds but perhaps just because it fits me so well. For the money a good value I would say.

Great feedback folks, thanks everyone!

Huglu makes many shotguns for many companies. Not one mention ov them. Around here for csusaul shooters the condors seem to fill a lot of hands too.

Just my opinion but you can keep anything made by Huglu, easy pass for me.

I have bought 2 Yildiz O/U shotguns from Academy Sports the past 2 years. I bought a 20 last year, and I liked it so much I bought a 12 to go with it this year. A really well-balanced gun, and a lot of gun for the price. Especially for hunting. If I were going to shoot 10,000 shells a year with them, I would probably get a different shotgun. I like them and would recommend. I bought them for under $400 each. I got the 12 this year on sale for $349.

How do they pattern?

Ran across a CZ Mallard (Huglu, I believe) in 20 gauge several years back. It was a gun the dealer had ordered in for a club's gun raffle and wasn't for sale. Can't speak to the quality of the gun's internal mechanics. The wood was nice, but fairly pedestrian. But the gun fit me and pointed like my finger. I woulda given it a whirl had it been for sale.

Yoder409 I don't know your experiance and this isn't aimed at you. I suspect that a lot of guys that make statements about factory guns fitting them has a whole lot more to do with how the gun feels to them in their hands. Rather than actually truly fitting them.

I have a good friend that wanted a high end sporting clays gun. He asked me to help him decide. I told him that is impossible because no two people are the same. So I helped him through the process. First order was looking at the different companies and models. I noticed something right away. Perazzi, Zoli, and Guerini's all didn't "feel like they fit him"! So I said lets try out some from Kolar and Krieghoff. Right away he said see these fit me. Nope they didn't fit him any better all were standard off the shelf guns. What he perceived as fit was actually feel. The weight and balance is what suited him. Yet he swore up and down that he could buy the one on the showroom floor and it was perfect. So I said to him slow down and let's get you fitted first and see what your measurements actually are. Sure enough when he saw what was suggested by the fitter he was surprised at how much different they actually are. He ended up buying a K-80 with a custom stock.

Heresy, heresy!!!! The man from Pa, says tar and feather....and then run him out on the rail...

MCH...…..

I wouldn't know what to call my experience level. I'm definitely not in the MCH/Battue bracket. Maybe, with time to actually shoot, I could hang with yinz. About all I get to do anymore is shoot a few rounds of trap every other year. If I went out right now, tonight, I feel fairly confident I'd be somewhere in the low to mid 90's.

I have always been blessed with the ability to pick up a shotgun and know whether I need bother trying to hit with it or not. I have a couple guns that feel GREAT in my hands that I struggle with. The guns I can compete with both FEEL good and POINT well. In the instance of my trap gun (it's actually labeled as a "sporting" gun), I went to a big shop. I told the guy I wanted every trap and sporting gun he had within my budget laid out on the counter. There were roughly a dozen. I mounted each one and it only took 15 minutes to make my pick. I have never regretted or thought I may have done better.

What's crazy is that the guns I have been most effective with have been somewhere between very and sorta plain-Jane guns...……..and very little, by looking at them, in common. An English stocked Stoeger Uplander Special 20 gauge SxS with 24" barrels...……………. A Winchester 1400 XTR 12 gauge with a 22" barrel...…………….. A Winchester Select Energy Sporting 12 gauge O/U with 30" barrels. Apparently, for whatever reason, each one fit(s) my style of shooting...……...whatever that style is. That CZ Mallard sat in my hands and came to my shoulder/eye just EXACTLY like the other 3 do or did. I'm pretty fairly certain I coulda been half ways dangerous with it.

Yoder

Battue is above my level. For an old man he can shoot! Add that he is a specimen of the word UGLY! Oh crap I am in trouble now!

I was just trying to highlight something you touched on that I feel too many people misunderstand. Again not really aimed at you, it may or may not apply for you. I do think you would find a longer barrel an advantage in both sporting clays and Trap. But again it needs to be the right fit and balance for you.

As for a trap gun I ran my first 50 and 100 with a Benelli M1 Super 90 that is about as ugly as Battue!

Shot sporting today for the first time in 3 months and stunk the place out, so leave me out of all this.

I only wedged my way into this one, because I previously made a promise to myself I would stay out of all future posts regarding fit. So, It was my way of giving it all to you. As they say, thank me later....

Now about ugly, you want ugly? Have you see Dan lately? And you call me ugly?

Haha I have not seen Dan in a bunch of years. I need to make it out to his club with you this year!

What was that Line/trick to said to Tobey?

Once or twice upon a time, Mr. Battue invited me to join him on a sporting clays course. Life and my lousy work schedule being what they be, I couldn't oblige his gracious offer(s).

Maybe, someday......………..if the offer still stands...…….. I've yet to set foot on a SC course. If I can't be learnt anything, at least I can be cheap entertainment.

Offer is still there, if you don't mind shooting with old ugly....

All it takes is a PM and coinciding schedules....

You may have me beat on "old"...………..but I can hold my own in "ugly". Yep.

Appreciate the extended offer, I do. Unless I'm on one of my scheduled vacation weeks...……… Saturdays (maybe) and Sundays are about all I have to work with. We'll hash SOMETHING out, one day.

Well please invite me so there can be one good looking guy there!

Be a right LONG ride from the Big Sky ............ Better have a persistent horse. 😁😁

Have Family back near Battue.

Battue, I live close............how much do you charge for shooting lessons??????

Bartman,

There is no why I should be charging anyone for shooting lessons. In fact, I’m signed up to take them myself here shortly.

Same thing, if you are close, PM and we will go and shoot sporting clays at anyone of a number of clubs close by. We both can learn from each other.

If You want lessons, I can recommend a couple who it would be worthwhile for you to pay good money to.

MCH gives me more credit than I deserve.

Fit is very important to shooting well, but there are some important caveats. First, no two fitters will prescribe the same dimensions - it’s a very complex process, a mix of objective and subjective factors. It is iterative vice prescriptive. It is also very important that a shooter’s technique is correct and consistent.

Sounds like chicken or egg - so how do you develop adequate skill and technique suitable to seek a custom or altered stock?
My recommendation is to initially put yourself in the hands of a good instructor who will check and adjust “rough” fit with temporary means (I use a lot of duct tape and cardboard, as well as washers to adjust pitch), and who will work with you in your correct technique. Get the gun fit in the ballpark, acknowledging that it won’t be perfect. Then practice. Thousands of targets.

As MCH alludes above, “feel” is not the same as “fit”, but does also play a role in seeking out the right gun along with getting the fit right. A perfectly fitting gun whose dynamics are ill suited to the task at hand is a fool’s errand. The opposite is true as well.

Now, to the direct question at hand, I would default in my purchase and recommendation first to a 20 gauge Beretta 686. If for whatever reason the Beretta doesn’t ring your bell, get a Browning Citori if you just like it better. I certainly wouldn’t make my decision based on a couple hundred dollars either way.

I taught Toby a trick where if I would ask him, “Would he rather look like me or be dead?” At which time Toby would go down with all four paws in the air.

Dan thought it was a hoot, and most times when we were in a crowd, he would ask Tob the question. Which would always get a laugh.

If I was a Chinaman, I’d have called him a plick.

Dan was not the only one that thought it was hilarious

Cool beaners.

Maybe if you're back east visiting, all 3 of our schedules could align to do some shootin'.

Again...…...…. I'll provide the entertainment.

Sounds great to me!

Considering the O.P...……… If this happens, I sure HOPE we don't have to bring a 20 gauge O/U.

Only one I have is beautiful and feels great in my hands...……...but I can't hit CRAP with it.

They pattern well.

Pattern is one part, Shot string is another. One dimensional doesn't tell the whole story. Patterns can and will change from shell to shell manufacturers.

I don't know what HCDH66 considers well, but I look outside the circle a lot! I want to see what I am getting for flyers. A good even pattern that looses a lot to flyers I would not call good.

MCH
I'm not much of a shot gunner so forgive a dumb question. What is the difference in pattern and shot string?

Pattern is a picture of your shot on impact of a flat board with a 30" circle drawn on it. One dimensional.

Shot string is the column of the shot once it leaves your barrel and for the most part the wad has fallen away. it is a three dimensional picture.

So what this basically means is the Pattern is a very limited view of that is going on, while the shot string is a better representation of what is really going on.


Some others here maybe able to say it better than I did.

Edit by the way not a dumb question.

If you have a long drawn out shot string, it could still look great on the pattern board. But in flight to the target there could be big enough gaps that you don't get a break or a killed bird.

Gotcha. That makes sense.

There you go!