Saturday was opening day here in Pa. At daybreak a deer got pushed from the top of the ridge and headed into the bottom where I sit. Heard him make a circle behind me. Was still fairly dark. Looked through my binoculars and found the deer, and saw he was legal. Pulled up my gun, and could not find him in the scope. Had it set on 3 power for greatest light transmission, but just couldn't find him in the fairly heavy cover. Listened to him walk off, and a few minutes later my brother shot him. I could dimly see him through binoculars which are nothing special, a pair of 6 or 8 year old Nikon Monarchs. Scope of the gun was a Swarovski Z3 3-9x36. Keep thinking if I had a scope with better light transmission maybe I could have gotten a shot?! Anyway, maybe it wasn't the scopes fault, maybe simply too dark. So I am not sure whether I should pursue a brighter scope or not. I thought the Swarovski's were pretty good at light transmission...Normally when the deer move down into the bottom it is lighter, but since he was pushed by someone at the top it was earlier than it normally is.

Looking forward to a healthy discussion on this. I may be in the market for a new scope and a thread declaring a Swarovski as a starting rung on the ladder is just the ticket..

First thought is if you have to find something in your scope, you're doing it wrong.

Other thunk is not bold enough reticle and/or too dang dark yet.

Still, one should never have to find anything through a scope.

Would figure out ehat time it was and what time legal light was in your area first.

May have just been too early.

I don't think you read the OP's post very well.

He said he located and assessed the deer through his Nikon binos...but when he shouldered his rifle to shoot the deer, he couldn't see the deer through his scope.

I read it just fine. I'm not talking about a 'safety issue', I'm talking about finding things in your scope. He said he couldn't find the deer in his scope. Perhaps bad wording.

I've seen lots of people 'search' for the deer/target/whatever through the scope. Why, because they never learned how to correctly shoulder a rifle.

Keep your eye on what you want to shoot and bring the rifle up and it will be there. Lots of people do not do that. It took me forever to teach the wife to keep her eye on the target as you are bringing the gun/binoculars up to bare.

I'm just responding to this in the OP's post: "could not find him in the scope"

Find and see are two different things.

And the less wordy response is, show me where in his post he stated he couldn't see the deer through his scope.

Again, it might well be using the wrong words, but I based my response on his wording of 'find' which is not the same as see.

So to solve the problem, we first have to know the problem.

3x is not brightest. Turn that one up to 5 or 6x. Saw a comparison video that found your scope not as bright as VX3 among others.

I would look at a better scope with heavy reticle. Order a few different prospects.Try it in the conditions you intend to use it before mounting. Return the rejects. Problem attended to.

Buy whatever scope your brother was using?

6x would have been better. Most of the light in the 12mm exit pupil you had didn't make it into your eye.

BtailHunter, yup, you are right. In thinking it over, I do not do well at "searching" through the scope. I could find the deer with binos but not with the scope. As to shooting light, it was close. Legal shooting light was at 6:45, he walked through maybe 6:55

Well it was probably 5 minutes later, and 5 minutes would probably have given me what I needed!! He was using a Redfield Revolution 2-7x33

1. Was the deer moving or standing still?

2. How far was the deer?

3. Was the rising sun coming up behind you, behind the deer, or off to R-L side?

4. Did you have any kind or rest or were you completely off-hand?

1. Moving
2. 50-60 yards
3. Sun not visible, I am in the bottoms between 2 ridges, but was facing east.
4. rested against the side of a tree.

Do you have a #4 reticle on your 3-9x36? Bolder reticle then their Plex. What rifle is your scope mounted on ?

13 replies so far and we haven't moved away from the Swarovski......its a candidate for me as well

Was hoping for some zeiss or meopta comparisons...

Out of the Z3 one inch Swarovski scopes I have owned the most reliable in lowlight is the 4-12x50 with #4 reticle. I owned a 3-10x42 and it didn't measure up in 2 lowlight situations in of all places a Greenfield at Dark , have never owned the 3-9x36.

The europeans have been hunting the extremes of twilight forever, it's how they do it....look at what they are using...6x minimum, more common is 8x. Look at the offerings of euro scopes on ebay, huge objectives and higher powers.

I looked at several z3’s and concluded that they were not markedly better than several others that I own. Z3 is a fine scope but certainly not the best on the market. I don’t think any 33-36 mm objective is ideal for low light hunting.

I am pretty sure it is the plex reticle. Mounted on a 358 Win built off a Mauser action... the one pictured below

One thing I did discover is that the scope is mounted too far forward.... makes it harder to keep my eyes on target and shoulder it.

I was in a similar situation as you. I hunt thick timber and it usually gets dark about 30 min before legal shooting times when compared to an open field. After talking to Bobby Tomek, I decided to spend the money on a SB polar 4-16x56. It has the #4 reticle and illuminated dot. Last night to I sat on my stand 20 min after legal time and watched does in my soybeans about 70 yards away with the illuminated dot on lowest setting. I could still make out horns at that time, but no rack bucks walked out. I hated spending the money, but everytime I use this scope, it never fails to impress me.

Jevrod,

Your custom Mauser is a thing of beauty and the .358 win. caliber icing on the cake.

If that were my rifle, and based on direct experience, I would choose a S&B 1.5 x 6 x 42 or Swarovski 1.5 x 6 x 42 to solve your problem. Set on 6 power, and in low light, much better setup than the Z3 in 3x9x36.

I have a S&B 8x56 I have been using the last two seasons which is outstanding in low light, but not great to use at less than 100 yards or times when I need a larger field of view. Last weekend I spent a morning hunt comparing the 8x56 and the Swaro 1.5x6x42 in low light, and while the S&B 8x56 was clearly the best, the Swaro was certainly very useable and more flexible hunting scope.

try a zeiss v4 3-12x56 with #60 ret,my fav ret out there,or a meopta meostar 3-12x56 with 4c or 4k ret of your choice.i prefer the 4k as meopta's 4c dot is a touch too big for my taste.
Big Ed

If you want a dedicated evening scope a S&B Classic 3-12x50 with the L3 reticle is all you need even if your state hunting times don't end 1/2 hour after sunset.

The thing I am struggling with is I am afraid that large an objective will look like crap on that rifle....oh well, function over looks but...

Good point. I'd go ahead and buy a new rifle too.

yep bro there ain't no free lunch. thats why all the euro "twilight" scopes are 56mm. to let more light in. i'd personally rather see 5 min longer and kill a monsta buck vs admiring my svelte rifle while on stand.....................personally.
Big Ed

+100

GReat tool for the job or point of pride(look at me, look at me, look at me)? Pick!

It will look fine, will look better then the Z3 it will replace.

A moving target that's essentially backlit is pretty tough to pick up. Yes, 6x would've focused more of the light upon your eye and still given you a 6MM exit pupil but it also reduces your FOV. The scope being too far forward is an issue as well. If you've chosen a "landmark" and your quarry passes it before you pick it up in the scope, it's much more difficult to hunt down your target with the scope so you're back to the binos again. After you get the scope in it's proper place, you might try some practice picking up moving targets of some sort during the off-season.

Did you try to stop the deer?

Should have but nope. Thought about it later but happened too fast. A simple grunt may have kept him interested enough to hang around a bit. Oh well, not mad. At least my brother was able to shoot it! Here is a pic of the buck..

Good advice, Thanks!

So took the scope out this eve and played with it. First I moved it back about an inch...no longer climbing the stock. Second, 5x seems to be the sweet spot as far as forgiving eye box. Also in seeing detail at dusk, 5x beat 3x. Third, my focus eyepiece was not quite focused totally right, focusing it made a sharper image. With all that, maybe it was more my fault than the scope!

That's what I said.

And that's why I tried it! Thanks for the info

Here is my 4-16x56 Polar on my Tikka T3 .308. You tend to not worry about what it looks like and rather HOW it works. For me, it's really balanced and handles well.

Use what works - for you and how you use it.

Good hunting.