At the recent National Small Bore competition in PA, below is a survey of equipment used. I guess most of these guys didn't get the memo on Leupolds....
Jorge1: Each year it is getting easier and easier to ignore the few Leupold naysayers that still exist - and are ignorant enough to keep spouting their drivel. I mounted a Leupold scope this past Sunday (August 29th) on a Rifle I had just purchased - and as expected (and has happened with me for the last 56 (fifty six!) years of my using them - it performed perfectly! Long live Leupold & Stevens - a fine American company. Hold into the wind VarmintGuy
The only issue I have with them is they are HELL BENT on driving away traditional hunters/scope users. Otherwise, why do away with what was arguably two of their best? the 6X42 and 2.5X8X36? (and the B&C reticle)
I hope they are not getting rid of the 2.5-8x36. That is one of my most used scopes.
Yep, it's gone. I have a couple in boxes still but agree it's my go-to scope for most hunting. I don't understand it either.
Leupold did have a prototype 6-20x42 there that should be decent but at least for silhouette I want a dot on the reticle and the custom shop just seems a big question mark.
81 Leupolds used by 6 guys to get through the day (grins)
I use Leupolds, but that is still funny.
Glad you took it as intended. A joke. Not some insult to 11 generations of your family, requiring a jihad and blood oath to avenge....
It made me laugh too. However, Teal, I'll bet that not even you have the guts to post something similar in a caliber thread. You would almost need to enter the witness protection program.
No, they didn't (do away with the 2.5x8). They added a CDS with zero lock but still offer the 2.5x8. The CDS is not my cup of tea but they're still offering a 2.5x8.
At the recent National Small Bore competition in PA, below is a survey of equipment used. I guess most of these guys didn't get the memo on Leupolds....
[quote=jorgeI]At the recent National Small Bore competition in PA, below is a survey of equipment used. I guess most of these guys didn't get the memo on Leupolds....
Shooting low recoil rimfires at 100 yards or less.... dave
Although I don't have the list, you will find 90% plus of the centerfire silhouette shooters shooting out 500 meters are using Leupold too.
The fact that we're shooting smallbore at 100 meters and less is immaterial in the often repeated fable that Leupold repeatable adjustments suck. Every match requires at least 4 major adjustments to shoot the various animals (for my rifle/scope/ammo it's from 0 on chickens to 11.5 on rams) plus an occasional mid-relay tweak for wind. In a season most of use will shoot 4-5K rounds. That's a lot of adjusting. If they didn't work you wouldn't see that much bias towards Leupold. .
But then, well, it's just facts, not hyperbole so worth nothing to the CF Optics section.
[quote=jorgeI]At the recent National Small Bore competition in PA, below is a survey of equipment used. I guess most of these guys didn't get the memo on Leupolds....
Shooting low recoil rimfires at 100 yards or less.... dave
Although I don't have the list, you will find 90% plus of the centerfire silhouette shooters shooting out 500 meters are using Leupold too.
The fact that we're shooting smallbore at 100 meters and less is immaterial in the often repeated fable that Leupold repeatable adjustments suck. Every match requires at least 4 major adjustments to shoot the various animals (for my rifle/scope/ammo it's from 0 on chickens to 11.5 on rams) plus an occasional mid-relay tweak for wind. In a season most of use will shoot 4-5K rounds. That's a lot of adjusting. If they didn't work you wouldn't see that much bias towards Leupold. .
But then, well, it's just facts, not hyperbole so worth nothing to the CF Optics section.
Having shot smallbore and high-power silhouette for a lot of years I can verify this. Leupold offers the best combination of good optics, tracking, and light weight which is very important because of weight limits on equipment.
It is becoming more prevalant for silhouette competitors to build one rifle which can meet specs for competing in both Hunter and High-power class using the same rifle. So the scope ends up being adjusted a lot during the course of the day, it will be adjusted up and down in fairly large steps and during the course of the match for minor corrections depending on headwind/tailwind, crosswind, etc.
I would hazard a guess that during a week-end match the scope gets adjusted more than the average shooter adjusts one in a year and if it is a Regional or National match then the amount of adjusting goes up proportionally. All in all they hold up very well or people who spend $1000's or dollars to compete every year would not be using them.
Most everyone at our club (except me) use Leupolds. I use Weavers. GD
Great scopes and I tried a T25 but I found the crosshairs too find for me on silhouette. Now resides on my Schutzen rifle which is much more like benchrest.
[quote=jorgeI]At the recent National Small Bore competition in PA, below is a survey of equipment used. I guess most of these guys didn't get the memo on Leupolds....
Shooting low recoil rimfires at 100 yards or less.... dave
Although I don't have the list, you will find 90% plus of the centerfire silhouette shooters shooting out 500 meters are using Leupold too.
The fact that we're shooting smallbore at 100 meters and less is immaterial in the often repeated fable that Leupold repeatable adjustments suck. Every match requires at least 4 major adjustments to shoot the various animals (for my rifle/scope/ammo it's from 0 on chickens to 11.5 on rams) plus an occasional mid-relay tweak for wind. In a season most of use will shoot 4-5K rounds. That's a lot of adjusting. If they didn't work you wouldn't see that much bias towards Leupold. .
But then, well, it's just facts, not hyperbole so worth nothing to the CF Optics section.
ESPECIALLY in the optics section... I started this thread on purpose and like flies around horseshit, enter the hyperbole haters...And speaking of recoil, I probably shoot more big bores than most folks and guess what? They track and hold zero.....
No, they didn't (do away with the 2.5x8). They added a CDS with zero lock but still offer the 2.5x8. The CDS is not my cup of tea but they're still offering a 2.5x8.
We'll agree to disagree Mr. Skane. Same body/magnification, but not the same scope...in my view. Cheers, J
Jorge old buddy! Hate to tell you this but another well known and respected forum member told me today his VXIII 1.5-5 crapped out on him. Had it mounted on a 458, lasted one shot today. And my VX6 has severe tracking issues. Mounted on a super accurate 300mag, I was setting it up for an upcoming hunt when it started. Needed 2” elevation at 200yds, clicked it up the appropriate number and got 7”. Clicked it back 1/2 the amount of clicks and it went all the way back to where it was before! Before I get the sermon about how great they are let me just say I’m no Leupold hater. Own more of them than anything else and have for the past 40yrs but please don’t try and convince me they track as advertised. They hold zero, look good, handle heavy recoil well and are light but accurate tracking is non existent. I’ve done the Leupold Shuffle for so many years I’ve gotten used to it.
Way to come along and interrupt the Leupold love fest.
I too find some of these dudes who profess to have been using a hundred+ Leupolds for fifty+ years proclaiming that they've never had tracking troubles while trying to get them sighted in a little hard to take. I'll agree that they hold zero fairly well for awhile once you get them where you wanted, but I've personally experienced the Leupold Shuffle with a lot of different scopes from throughout their entire line.
Someone has to provide “the rest of the story” so some unsuspecting newbie isn’t fed too much of the Kool Aid😎
All of my older Leupolds have been totally reliable and I’ve no intention of changing them out until they falter. But I damn sure won’t replace any of them with any new Leupold. I’ve already put a few other brands into service on certain platforms and will go to those when I need another scope.
What I see for equipment on the first page is lightweight scopes with turrets and fine reticles and probably 1/8” adjustments. The tactical scopes aren’t going to be on that list so what does this prove?
I shot prairie dogs last weekend with my Tikka T3x Varmint (Land Whore) in .223 wearing a Leupold FX-3 12x40 AO Target scope, 75 grain ELD-Ms. Brutal on the dogs, typical shot was 300 yards, farthest was 400 yards. Only head shots counted.
I'm with you there. I still have quite a few Leupolds in service that I don't plan to change. Especially on gloss finished rigs, a lot of them levers.
I thought maybe the old friction adjusters were a little better, but I just had a 2-7 compact on a 358 BLR go TU a couple weeks ago. Had been good for roughly 500 shots on that platform, close as I can figure. Then, as per usual, groups opened up and up. Scope is likely 1993 or so. It is gloss; it fit and served the little BLR well for a long time. Curious to see if they'll actually repair it. Not really much for 1" gloss options these days. There are a lot of great LVPO options, but none that will look that great on the svelt, steel receiver BLR. If they replace instead of fix, I likely look for a gloss used Japan Weaver 1-3 or perhaps a used straight tube Bushnell of some flavor.
I shot prairie dogs last weekend with my Tikka T3x Varmint (Land Whore) in .223 wearing a Leupold FX-3 12x40 AO Target scope, 75 grain ELD-Ms. Brutal on the dogs, typical shot was 300 yards, farthest was 400 yards. Only head shots counted.
Just reading through quickly I don’t see any bashing a Leupold but it sure is a thread about defending them. Why would anyone care what a stranger thinks about the scope they chose to use? I have 3 Leupold’s on rifles and they work. The rest have NF and SWFA’s. They work too
The majority of my scopes are Leupold, they are pretty much set and forget and excel in that aspect. If I’m turning knobs, it is a NF, Bush LRHS, or SWFA.
I have added a couple of Meopta scopes to the mix this year. I do have a half dozen or so Sightron that have been solid and track well enough for rimfire. I have several Nikon that I’ve only used as set and forget. My USA made Burris are set and forget, I’ve had a couple of bad experiences with the new Burris and avoid them.
Jorge old buddy! Hate to tell you this but another well known and respected forum member told me today his VXIII 1.5-5 crapped out on him. Had it mounted on a 458, lasted one shot today. And my VX6 has severe tracking issues. Mounted on a super accurate 300mag, I was setting it up for an upcoming hunt when it started. Needed 2” elevation at 200yds, clicked it up the appropriate number and got 7”. Clicked it back 1/2 the amount of clicks and it went all the way back to where it was before! Before I get the sermon about how great they are let me just say I’m no Leupold hater. Own more of them than anything else and have for the past 40yrs but please don’t try and convince me they track as advertised. They hold zero, look good, handle heavy recoil well and are light but accurate tracking is non existent. I’ve done the Leupold Shuffle for so many years I’ve gotten used to it.
Im the poor sap that had my 1.5x5 die on my 458 today.
I did replace it with old M8 4x long tube I’ve had for quite awhile.
The scope was good on the first shot, the next one after racking the bolt was a blurry target. I said hmmm, I adjusted it back and forth and nothing helped. The old 4x works fine. Takes me a bit to zero the old friction dials but we shall see what it does.
I still have some 6x36’s on rifles as well that seem to track great.
As Kaleb mentioned, the rest wear SWFA, Trijicon, or NF.
John’s VX6 croaking is the same story as my two previous 2-12’s. Beautiful optics but could not or would not adjust properly nor hold zero on a 7mm Mashburn Super or 338 Win, neither of which are hard recliners.
Oh and the. 458 has never seen a load heavier than a 350 grain bullet at 2600 so I wasn’t exactly punishing it.
I got a like new Swarovski Z6I 1x6x24 with the illumiiated circle dot I'm thinking about selling at a deal...it can stand anything that little .458 Win..mag can throw at it
Howdy John, long time no see. If you look at my OP, I stated my reason for the post. I'm not a knob turner, but apparently those 80 plus folks in the competition were and I'm no genius, but logic tells me if the turning of knobs did not track, they'd switch scopes.
Just like you, all my scopes (but one) are the "fire and forget", that is why I like the B&C or reticles with the built in corrections on the crosshairs. As to scope failures, I've had one a high dollar Zeiss Victory and on a mildly recoiling 300 H&H Model 70, but unlike many here, I'm not vanquishing Zeiss' to the garbage. No love fest, I was just pointing out DATA and not opinion.
The only issue I have with them is they are HELL BENT on driving away traditional hunters/scope users. Otherwise, why do away with what was arguably two of their best? the 6X42 and 2.5X8X36? (and the B&C reticle)
Amen……
And we all knew Leupy was going use the Wuhan Virus as an excuse to keep their custom shop closed………
I've never understood why adults care what other people buy/use because it isn't what they buy/use. It always seems like hubris when people believe that their way is the best way and infer that anyone doing whatever it is any other way is wrong and whoever does it differently is stupid. Heck, I don't care if people who I'm not related to take their next breath, much less what they buy/use for anythng.
That said, you've got to wonder about the guys using BSA and Tasco scopes. Using any BSA or Tasco scopes in a serious competition seems like a waste of ammo to me, but maybe that is my hubris showing up.
I've never understood why adults care what other people buy/use because it isn't what they buy/use. It always seems like hubris when people believe that their way is the best way and infer that anyone doing whatever it is any other way is wrong and whoever does it differently is stupid. Heck, I don't care if people who I'm not related to take their next breath, much less what they buy/use for anythng.
That said, you've got to wonder about the guys using BSA and Tasco scopes. Using any BSA or Tasco scopes in a serious competition seems like a waste of ammo to me, but maybe that is my hubris showing up.
maybe they just enjoy the competition and that is all they can afford?
At the recent National Small Bore competition in PA, below is a survey of equipment used. I guess most of these guys didn't get the memo on Leupolds....
Jorge old buddy! Hate to tell you this but another well known and respected forum member told me today his VXIII 1.5-5 crapped out on him. Had it mounted on a 458, lasted one shot today. And my VX6 has severe tracking issues. Mounted on a super accurate 300mag, I was setting it up for an upcoming hunt when it started. Needed 2” elevation at 200yds, clicked it up the appropriate number and got 7”. Clicked it back 1/2 the amount of clicks and it went all the way back to where it was before! Before I get the sermon about how great they are let me just say I’m no Leupold hater. Own more of them than anything else and have for the past 40yrs but please don’t try and convince me they track as advertised. They hold zero, look good, handle heavy recoil well and are light but accurate tracking is non existent. I’ve done the Leupold Shuffle for so many years I’ve gotten used to it.
Im the poor sap that had my 1.5x5 die on my 458 today.
I did replace it with old M8 4x long tube I’ve had for quite awhile.
The scope was good on the first shot, the next one after racking the bolt was a blurry target. I said hmmm, I adjusted it back and forth and nothing helped. The old 4x works fine. Takes me a bit to zero the old friction dials but we shall see what it does.
I still have some 6x36’s on rifles as well that seem to track great.
As Kaleb mentioned, the rest wear SWFA, Trijicon, or NF.
John’s VX6 croaking is the same story as my two previous 2-12’s. Beautiful optics but could not or would not adjust properly nor hold zero on a 7mm Mashburn Super or 338 Win, neither of which are hard recliners.
Oh and the. 458 has never seen a load heavier than a 350 grain bullet at 2600 so I wasn’t exactly punishing it.
My old Winchester 70 in 375 H&H has had a pre-1974 Leupold Vari-X II 2-7x28 mounted on it since I bought the rifle in 1986 for my plains game hunt in Botswana. I haven't shot the rifle a lot, less than 300 rounds fired, but the little Leupold has maintained its zero and it has been run from 2x to 7x and back again hundreds of times. The rifle came to me mounted with a 2.75x Denver Redfield that hadn't rattled apart and has been repurposed on multiple rifles since then, mostly Remington 760s in 270 and 30-06.
I've never understood why adults care what other people buy/use because it isn't what they buy/use. It always seems like hubris when people believe that their way is the best way and infer that anyone doing whatever it is any other way is wrong and whoever does it differently is stupid. Heck, I don't care if people who I'm not related to take their next breath, much less what they buy/use for anythng.
That said, you've got to wonder about the guys using BSA and Tasco scopes. Using any BSA or Tasco scopes in a serious competition seems like a waste of ammo to me, but maybe that is my hubris showing up.
maybe they just enjoy the competition and that is all they can afford?
But you posted that this was a National Competition, which I took to mean that it was a high/elite level competition. Every serious competition shooter who I've interacted with has been willing to spend freely on gear and ammo if spending that money would help him lose a fraction of an inch of group size. Maybe National Competition shooters in PA are more casual than those who I have met.
I wonder how many of the 81 are the long-since unavailable fixed 16x???
I still own north of 60 Leupold scopes all but a dozen or so mounted on rifles from 22LR through 375H&H. That said, any rifles I own that I use myself for big-game hunting have had their Leuopolds replaced with Nightforce NXS or SHV 2.5-10x42 or 3-10x42. Most of the supplanted Leupold's were/are Vari-X III 4.5-14x40 A/O or Vari-X II 4-12x40 A/O, all of them having been to the custom/repair shop at least once for M-1 elevation turrets. I'll admit, I kind of miss 14x when punching paper, but, it doesn't make the least bit of difference to me when actually hunting.
I am not a hater on them, just that I have had 5-6 now at this point that have failed to hold zero, lost focus, or just haven't dialed correctly over the years. 1 6x42 Fixed and the rest were variables of one kind or another. As a whole the 6x36's and older M8 4X's have been very good at maintaining a zero. I wished they made more stuff I liked as being a retired Vet gives me a great discount on them, but it's rarely used for scopes these days.
Howdy John, long time no see. If you look at my OP, I stated my reason for the post. I'm not a knob turner, but apparently those 80 plus folks in the competition were and I'm no genius, but logic tells me if the turning of knobs did not track, they'd switch scopes.
Just like you, all my scopes (but one) are the "fire and forget", that is why I like the B&C or reticles with the built in corrections on the crosshairs. As to scope failures, I've had one a high dollar Zeiss Victory and on a mildly recoiling 300 H&H Model 70, but unlike many here, I'm not vanquishing Zeiss' to the garbage. No love fest, I was just pointing out DATA and not opinion.
J
No one has answered my question of "how many were Tuckerized" Cecil Tucker made a good living freezing the erector in leupolds for competition shooters and used external adjustable mounts to zero and dial the scopes
I've never understood why adults care what other people buy/use because it isn't what they buy/use. It always seems like hubris when people believe that their way is the best way and infer that anyone doing whatever it is any other way is wrong and whoever does it differently is stupid. Heck, I don't care if people who I'm not related to take their next breath, much less what they buy/use for anythng.
That said, you've got to wonder about the guys using BSA and Tasco scopes. Using any BSA or Tasco scopes in a serious competition seems like a waste of ammo to me, but maybe that is my hubris showing up.
Maybe they're looking to see if they enjoy that discipline of shooting sport for a season or two before they make a commitment on equipment.
If more people did that there'd be less posers and more shooters in the world.
Howdy John, long time no see. If you look at my OP, I stated my reason for the post. I'm not a knob turner, but apparently those 80 plus folks in the competition were and I'm no genius, but logic tells me if the turning of knobs did not track, they'd switch scopes.
Just like you, all my scopes (but one) are the "fire and forget", that is why I like the B&C or reticles with the built in corrections on the crosshairs. As to scope failures, I've had one a high dollar Zeiss Victory and on a mildly recoiling 300 H&H Model 70, but unlike many here, I'm not vanquishing Zeiss' to the garbage. No love fest, I was just pointing out DATA and not opinion.
J
No one has answered my question of "how many were Tuckerized" Cecil Tucker made a good living freezing the erector in leupolds for competition shooters and used external adjustable mounts to zero and dial the scopes
I have a Leupold 12x with locked internal adjustments and Unertl de-horned externally adjustable mounts. I don't know who worked on the scope and have never heard of Cecil Tucker. Do you know if he marked the scopes that he worked on? This scope is on a Remington 40X-BR in 222 that I traded for but have never shot.
But you posted that this was a National Competition, which I took to mean that it was a high/elite level competition. Every serious competition shooter who I've interacted with has been willing to spend freely on gear and ammo if spending that money would help him lose a fraction of an inch of group size. Maybe National Competition shooters in PA are more casual than those who I have met.
One of the things about silhouette is it's set up with a classification system that allows everyone, from a beginning shooter up through master class, to compete with their peers. As you get better in NRA registered matches you move up through the classes B > A > AA > AAA > Masters. There is no qualification program to go to Nationals and IIRC there were on the order of a dozen "B" class shooters. In all likelihood that's where you see the less expensive equipment.
While a really hard shooting discipline to excel at, everyone can enjoy a pig target flopping over. I started with a CZ with Leupold 2.5-8X with a CDS turret I took off my .243, then to a Cooper with a Nikon 4-16 before I just said screw it and make sure I miss and not the rifle and went to the Anschutz 1712 with a 25X Leupold.
I got a like new Swarovski Z6I 1x6x24 with the illumiiated circle dot I'm thinking about selling at a deal...it can stand anything that little .458 Win..mag can throw at it
Cool - I'll take it - I'm sure you are just giving it away since it's not a Leupold and not worth anything. You are a "red-blooded American" aren't you?
Howdy John, long time no see. If you look at my OP, I stated my reason for the post. I'm not a knob turner, but apparently those 80 plus folks in the competition were and I'm no genius, but logic tells me if the turning of knobs did not track, they'd switch scopes.
Just like you, all my scopes (but one) are the "fire and forget", that is why I like the B&C or reticles with the built in corrections on the crosshairs. As to scope failures, I've had one a high dollar Zeiss Victory and on a mildly recoiling 300 H&H Model 70, but unlike many here, I'm not vanquishing Zeiss' to the garbage. No love fest, I was just pointing out DATA and not opinion.
J
No one has answered my question of "how many were Tuckerized" Cecil Tucker made a good living freezing the erector in leupolds for competition shooters and used external adjustable mounts to zero and dial the scopes
In over 30 years of shooting silhouette competitions at state and national level I have never seen any competitor use a "Tuckerized" scope. Tucker scopes were modified for benchrest shooting but they are rarely seen in that venue any more.
Howdy John, long time no see. If you look at my OP, I stated my reason for the post. I'm not a knob turner, but apparently those 80 plus folks in the competition were and I'm no genius, but logic tells me if the turning of knobs did not track, they'd switch scopes.
Just like you, all my scopes (but one) are the "fire and forget", that is why I like the B&C or reticles with the built in corrections on the crosshairs. As to scope failures, I've had one a high dollar Zeiss Victory and on a mildly recoiling 300 H&H Model 70, but unlike many here, I'm not vanquishing Zeiss' to the garbage. No love fest, I was just pointing out DATA and not opinion.
J
No one has answered my question of "how many were Tuckerized" Cecil Tucker made a good living freezing the erector in leupolds for competition shooters and used external adjustable mounts to zero and dial the scopes
In over 30 years of shooting silhouette competitions at state and national level I have never seen any competitor use a "Tuckerized" scope. Tucker scopes were modified for benchrest shooting but they are rarely seen in that venue any more.
drover
Don't need them since most competitors moved on to more reliable scopes
I am not a hater on them, just that I have had 5-6 now at this point that have failed to hold zero, lost focus, or just haven't dialed correctly over the years. 1 6x42 Fixed and the rest were variables of one kind or another. As a whole the 6x36's and older M8 4X's have been very good at maintaining a zero. I wished they made more stuff I liked as being a retired Vet gives me a great discount on them, but it's rarely used for scopes these days.
This has been my rough experience too. The 2-7s of a few flavors and the common 3-9x40 VXIIs seemed to be the biggest issue for me, but it wasn't limited to just them. They caused me to miss a few critters over the years and wound a few more which turned into rodeos. Most times it turned out I was a foot or so off at 100 yards. The 6X42s have been solid for me and my one 6X32 hasn`t shifted POI at all, though it is on a puny .17 Rem that gets thrown around a lot.
But you posted that this was a National Competition, which I took to mean that it was a high/elite level competition. Every serious competition shooter who I've interacted with has been willing to spend freely on gear and ammo if spending that money would help him lose a fraction of an inch of group size. Maybe National Competition shooters in PA are more casual than those who I have met.
Maybe you can go give them a lesson on equipment and marksmanship next year.
Howdy John, long time no see. If you look at my OP, I stated my reason for the post. I'm not a knob turner, but apparently those 80 plus folks in the competition were and I'm no genius, but logic tells me if the turning of knobs did not track, they'd switch scopes.
Just like you, all my scopes (but one) are the "fire and forget", that is why I like the B&C or reticles with the built in corrections on the crosshairs. As to scope failures, I've had one a high dollar Zeiss Victory and on a mildly recoiling 300 H&H Model 70, but unlike many here, I'm not vanquishing Zeiss' to the garbage. No love fest, I was just pointing out DATA and not opinion.
J
No one has answered my question of "how many were Tuckerized" Cecil Tucker made a good living freezing the erector in leupolds for competition shooters and used external adjustable mounts to zero and dial the scopes
I have a Leupold 12x with locked internal adjustments and Unertl de-horned externally adjustable mounts. I don't know who worked on the scope and have never heard of Cecil Tucker. Do you know if he marked the scopes that he worked on? This scope is on a Remington 40X-BR in 222 that I traded for but have never shot.
I"ve been in Cecil's shop in Odessa several times. Great guy who knows his stuff. If your scope is modified by him, it will have a Burris Posi Lock type nipple sticking out of the tube, usually at about a 45* angle from the turrets. It will have a screw adjustment in it to lock down the internals.
I shot prairie dogs last weekend with my Tikka T3x Varmint (Land Whore) in .223 wearing a Leupold FX-3 12x40 AO Target scope, 75 grain ELD-Ms. Brutal on the dogs, typical shot was 300 yards, farthest was 400 yards. Only head shots counted.
It's not just Cecil Tucker, I have had a couple but Bob Brackney improved on it. Love my Brackney/ Leupold but my regular competition Leupold's work just fine also.
My LV gun when I was working with a frozen Sightron and TSI mount. Sharped eyed types will notice the Beggs tuner, also.
At the recent National Small Bore competition in PA, below is a survey of equipment used. I guess most of these guys didn't get the memo on Leupolds....
Shooting low recoil rimfires at 100 yards or less.... dave
Yes, but many proclaim Leupy's lose zero just sitting in the safe.
JG:
I have had them loose zero sitting in the safe. The other issue I've experienced is wandering zero, wherein you can still shoot a tight group , but it's in a different spot than it was the last time you shot the rig. I used to blame it on wood stocks, hold position/technique, atmosphere, etc, etc. But then I took notice that some wood/blued never did it while some SS/synthetics did it regularly - guess the common denominator. I also noticed it when you'd all of a sudden get a "flyer" 3/4-1<” out and the next group would then be tight around the previous groups' flyer.
I typically don't get involved in the Leopold fire pissing contest anymore. It's been a number of years ago now. But in my time messing with Leopold's flippy erector in short range BR. A 6 mm PPC bench gun that would shoot an aggregate in the .150s all of a sudden would be lucky to shoot a half inch group. It happened to me repeatedly across three different Leopold Bench rest scopes. Did the Leopold Mary go around with United parcel service for a while. One on the gun one in transit to Oregon and another one either ready to go to Oregon or ready to go on the gun. Finally got them tuckerized which resolved the problem completely. Never had a stock Leopold go over 950 rounds without having the erector float. Very common problem. I'm reminded of being at the rifle range seeing some poor sap sitting there pounding on his deer rifle shooting inch and a half groups saying repeatedly that the rifle used to shoot tighter than that and of course it almost in every case there was a Leopold on top. Sad. From what I've read its only gone down hill. For competition I run March and Nightforce. For hunting it's S&B. I simply don't have time to mess with an inferior rifle optic. That they're using them in the short range silhouette game. Doesn't surprise me. They're cheap they're light and they're running them on a 12 lb rifle that has virtually no recoil. Sounds like a good place for them.
I typically don't get involved in the Leopold fire pissing contest anymore.
Dave
IT turns into a pissing contest because people like YOU turn it into one. All I did was publish a data sheets with numbers. PERIOD. YOU then came back with YOUR theories and Pugs pretty well handed you your ass. Now you come back with YOUR anecdotal evidence (which I am not doubting in the least) about Leupolds and I related how I shoot more heavy kicking rifles than most here (including you), but yet that doesn't count. And while I have your attention, I own quite a few scopes INCLUDING a top of the line S&B and in my opinion, given similar scopes, they are OVERPRICED AND UNDER DELIVER. A fool and their money are soon parted (hint).
I typically don't get involved in the Leopold fire pissing contest anymore.
Dave
IT turns into a pissing contest because people like YOU turn it into one. All I did was publish a data sheets with numbers. PERIOD.
Regarding "strictly data/numbers", I wonder how many of the 81 are using a currently available model Leupold vs. say the long discontinued fixed 16x that seems to be the "grail" scope for that discipline.
I typically don't get involved in the Leopold fire pissing contest anymore.
Dave
IT turns into a pissing contest because people like YOU turn it into one. All I did was publish a data sheets with numbers. PERIOD.
Regarding "strictly data/numbers", I wonder how many of the 81 are using a currently available model Leupold vs. say the long discontinued fixed 16x that seems to be the "grail" scope for that discipline.
That is certainly a fair and valid question I don't have an answer for....
I do shoot a lot of big bores and other hard kickers, and the past few years I’ve had several Leupolds crap out. They can’t take the pounding for many years before something let’s go. Buy a Trijicon or a NF and forget it.
But you posted that this was a National Competition, which I took to mean that it was a high/elite level competition. Every serious competition shooter who I've interacted with has been willing to spend freely on gear and ammo if spending that money would help him lose a fraction of an inch of group size. Maybe National Competition shooters in PA are more casual than those who I have met.
One of the things about silhouette is it's set up with a classification system that allows everyone, from a beginning shooter up through master class, to compete with their peers. As you get better in NRA registered matches you move up through the classes B > A > AA > AAA > Masters. There is no qualification program to go to Nationals and IIRC there were on the order of a dozen "B" class shooters. In all likelihood that's where you see the less expensive equipment.
While a really hard shooting discipline to excel at, everyone can enjoy a pig target flopping over. I started with a CZ with Leupold 2.5-8X with a CDS turret I took off my .243, then to a Cooper with a Nikon 4-16 before I just said screw it and make sure I miss and not the rifle and went to the Anschutz 1712 with a 25X Leupold.
Pugs, when I was shooting High Power and Small Bore Silhouette the thing I enjoyed the most was the turkey flopping over! Those SOB's were the toughest thing to hit with the chickens coming in second.
I do shoot a lot of big bores and other hard kickers, and the past few years I’ve had several Leupolds crap out. They can’t take the pounding for many years before something let’s go. Buy a Trijicon or a NF and forget it.
NFs are bulky. I do have a Trijicon on a 375 and so far so good. I've had a Leupold on my 416 Rigby AND 340 Weatherby for close to 20 years and no problems, but I do understand and recognize issues with the newer scopes. Still, in the end, I was just publishing DATA with No editorializing on my part other than the obvious tongue in cheek title...
Pugs, when I was shooting High Power and Small Bore Silhouette the thing I enjoyed the most was the turkey flopping over! Those SOB's were the toughest thing to hit with the chickens coming in second.
Years ago when my father and I shot in IHMSA the turkeys were the trouble for us too.
I wonder how many of the 81 are the long-since unavailable fixed 16x???
I still own north of 60 Leupold scopes all but a dozen or so mounted on rifles from 22LR through 375H&H. That said, any rifles I own that I use myself for big-game hunting have had their Leuopolds replaced with Nightforce NXS or SHV 2.5-10x42 or 3-10x42. Most of the supplanted Leupold's were/are Vari-X III 4.5-14x40 A/O or Vari-X II 4-12x40 A/O, all of them having been to the custom/repair shop at least once for M-1 elevation turrets. I'll admit, I kind of miss 14x when punching paper, but, it doesn't make the least bit of difference to me when actually hunting.
horse',
Confessions of a Sinner...I've had a coupla hunnert Reupolds. Hint.
I shot the objective element loose on one of them olldddddd 16x Reupolds(short silver turret bitches). Hint.
Shot newer(than the 16x pictured) 12x's apart too. Hint.
Scattered a Reupold Mk4 M1 16x's reticle too. Hint.
Due the AMAZINGLY modest "corrections" in Sillywet,I'd happily take an etched reticle that actually meant sumptin',track and repeated...if only for a fhuqking change. Hint.(grin)
Interestingly,in REAL Shooting ala Rimfire,where corrections are well beyond hilariously fhuqking trite,Reupold sets purty lonely. NO fhuqking "surprise" there though. Hint. (grin)
Not surprised at all. I hated shooting at turkeys, if I could I would start with them and get those SOB's out of the way.
I always liked starting on turkeys, if I had a good run of them at the start then I knew I was on my game, and if I had a poor run on them I still had 30 animals left to make up for a poor start. The worse thing in the world was to finish on turkeys after having a poor run on the other animals, they are hard to play catch-up on when you need 8 or 10 of them to catch up.
Not surprised at all. I hated shooting at turkeys, if I could I would start with them and get those SOB's out of the way.
I always liked starting on turkeys, if I had a good run of them at the start then I knew I was on my game, and if I had a poor run on them I still had 30 animals left to make up for a poor start. The worse thing in the world was to finish on turkeys after having a poor run on the other animals, they are hard to play catch-up on when you need 8 or 10 of them to catch up.
Like the majority of silhouette shooters I used a Leupold, generally a 6.5-20x40, because a lot of the ranges I shot were windy and on a windy day I could turn the magnification down to lessen the apparent wobble so it wasn't so distracting.
My tracking issues went away after talking to a Leupold tech, he said that by moving the scope elevation/windage adjustments within a limited range from the zero setting and up to eleven minutes or so that eventually the grease on the threads wipes off and caused sticking in the adjustment. He advised that from time to time that the adjustments be "exercised" by runnng them from stop to stop and redistributing the grease. I started doing that and my elevation/windage adjustments worked just fine after that.
I typically don't get involved in the Leopold fire pissing contest anymore.
Dave
IT turns into a pissing contest because people like YOU turn it into one. All I did was publish a data sheets with numbers. PERIOD.
Regarding "strictly data/numbers", I wonder how many of the 81 are using a currently available model Leupold vs. say the long discontinued fixed 16x that seems to be the "grail" scope for that discipline.
That is certainly a fair and valid question I don't have an answer for....
What exactly did you expect to happen when you posted this data set here with this title?
Your admonishment of a poster with disparate experiences than your own suggests that you're either obtuse, or trying to hide behind a facade of "good intentions" in the form of a Leupold PSA.
What I see for equipment on the first page is lightweight scopes with turrets and fine reticles and probably 1/8” adjustments. The tactical scopes aren’t going to be on that list so what does this prove?
What this proves to me that in a precision match setting, 81 out of 105 competitors chose Leupolds. 77%! That is a ringing endorsement for what they are doing. Maybe people need something else for other applications, but not many of the Leupy haters are fast-roping behind enemy lines.
I will say the question of which model of any those scopes used is a fair one. Some might find it hard to believe, but 25 years ago, some Tasco models were highly regarded in precision shooting circles. That was of course when George Rosenfield owned the company and he imported his scopes from Japan, some made to his specs by such manufacturers as Hakko.
Ringing endorsement or a shallow pool to choose from? There aren’t many lightweight, thin reticled turret scopes. Leupold and Sightron. Weaver is gone. These people are probably using old scopes. Premier made the list and I’ll go out on a limb and say they aren’t the tactical line that doesn’t exist anymore. They are probably Leupolds that they worked over from the 90s.
Rimfire Rifle "Precision" predicated upon 4 MOA targets,no further than 100yds away,is an oxymoron...espoused by Morons. Read that again. Now one more time. Hint.
It's enough to horn The City Slickin' Haybale & Crockett crowd up though. Hint. LAUGHING!
I typically don't get involved in the Leopold fire pissing contest anymore.
Dave
IT turns into a pissing contest because people like YOU turn it into one. All I did was publish a data sheets with numbers. PERIOD.
Regarding "strictly data/numbers", I wonder how many of the 81 are using a currently available model Leupold vs. say the long discontinued fixed 16x that seems to be the "grail" scope for that discipline.
That is certainly a fair and valid question I don't have an answer for....
What exactly did you expect to happen when you posted this data set here with this title?
Your admonishment of a poster with disparate experiences than your own suggests that you're either obtuse, or trying to hide behind a facade of "good intentions" in the form of a Leupold PSA.
Actually, if your comprehension was up to par and read what I posted, it's the exact opposite . In fact, if you READ what I posted to my good friend John 55, it might prove enlightening. But just in case it "takes" what part of "I'm not a knob turner" did you not get? As to what I expected, your post, along with a few others here, are indicative of what I predicted. I do have to say, I found your comment about "they lose zero" whilst sitting in your safe, particularly amusing...
Anything shooting is still always better than working.
Short range, long range.
Originally Posted by Big Stick
Rimfire Rifle "Precision" predicated upon 4 MOA targets,no further than 100yds away,is an oxymoron...espoused by Morons. Read that again. Now one more time. Hint.
It's enough to horn The City Slickin' Haybale & Crockett crowd up though. Hint. LAUGHING!
I don't remember all the scopes I used but two stick out, a Leupold 12x and a Weaver T-10.
I started with an El Paso Weaver T-10 as my first dedicated scope, within a year or so I moved up to a T-16 and to this day I still think that they were absolutely the best silhouette scope ever designed. I used T-16's for a lot of years and never had a failure to track, or even better, I never doubted the tracking on them. They still show up occasionally but their weight and so-so optics put them out of favor, most of the ones still out there show a lot of yellowing on the lens, but they still track great. I still don't understand why someone isn't building a scope with the micro-trac system, the patent has to long expired. If I ever run across a T-16 at a reasonable price I will likely buy it just for old times sake.
When I started competing the state of the art High-Power Standard was a Rem 700 Varminter, in a Fajen thumbhole stock silhouette stock, with a Weaver T-16 on it. A friend still has one set up like that and I shot it a few years ago and it was still a competitive set-up. I had forgotten how good the Fajen stock felt.
I typically don't get involved in the Leopold fire pissing contest anymore.
Dave
IT turns into a pissing contest because people like YOU turn it into one. All I did was publish a data sheets with numbers. PERIOD.
Regarding "strictly data/numbers", I wonder how many of the 81 are using a currently available model Leupold vs. say the long discontinued fixed 16x that seems to be the "grail" scope for that discipline.
That is certainly a fair and valid question I don't have an answer for....
What exactly did you expect to happen when you posted this data set here with this title?
Your admonishment of a poster with disparate experiences than your own suggests that you're either obtuse, or trying to hide behind a facade of "good intentions" in the form of a Leupold PSA.
Actually, if your comprehension was up to par and read what I posted, it's the exact opposite . In fact, if you READ what I posted to my good friend John 55, it might prove enlightening. But just in case it "takes" what part of "I'm not a knob turner" did you not get? As to what I expected, your post, along with a few others here, are indicative of what I predicted. I do have to say, I found your comment about "they lose zero" whilst sitting in your safe, particularly amusing...
.
I re-read your posts. My initial discernment stands. Not sure what "not being a knob twister" has to do with a good portion of what's been discussed in this thread, or, more specifically, how it interrelates with my comments, but its obviously important to you to point out again the functionality you don't expect from your equipment.
In point of fact, you posted much more than the "Data sheets with numbers. PERIOD". You purposefully gave the thread an oxymoronic title, and in addition to the "Data Sheets", you added "Guess most of these guys didn't get the memo on Leupold". That's pretty standard trolling bait. To which, I admit, I bit. What I found worthy of pointing out is that you then proceeded to show ire towards and accuse posters, who simply shared their experiences with the subject matter, of doing exactly what you actually did in kicking the thread off. You basically dared the CF community at large to disagree with what you obviously considered to be a substantive metric that would definitively quell all of those nasty, distressing, baseless, Troglodyte Leupold "haters" on The Fire, and then got hurt feelings over people doing what you claimed to have expected them to do at the outset. Hence my comment on your intentions and expectations with this thread
As to scopes loosing zero in a safe: How would you classify it when scopes change POI between uses? I'm far from the first one to report on such phenomenon with Leupolds. I can state that without any black magic, priests, or lengthy incantations, such goings on went away when I branched out to other brands of scope. Anyhoo, glad you haven't noticed any such shortfalls yet and are happy so far with your equipment. As previously stated, I hope your luck holds.
I don't remember all the scopes I used but two stick out, a Leupold 12x and a Weaver T-10.
I started with an El Paso Weaver T-10 as my first dedicated scope, within a year or so I moved up to a T-16 and to this day I still think that they were absolutely the best silhouette scope ever designed. I used T-16's for a lot of years and never had a failure to track, or even better, I never doubted the tracking on them. They still show up occasionally but their weight and so-so optics put them out of favor, most of the ones still out there show a lot of yellowing on the lens, but they still track great. I still don't understand why someone isn't building a scope with the micro-trac system, the patent has to long expired. If I ever run across a T-16 at a reasonable price I will likely buy it just for old times sake.
When I started competing the state of the art High-Power Standard was a Rem 700 Varminter, in a Fajen thumbhole stock silhouette stock, with a Weaver T-16 on it. A friend still has one set up like that and I shot it a few years ago and it was still a competitive set-up. I had forgotten how good the Fajen stock felt.
drover
I don't remember what I started with but, I do remember using the .280 AI, .30/06, .260 Rem and finally the .308 Win. The Weaver T-10 was the scope to get for silhouette when I was competing. Agreed the optics being so-so on the Weaver but, for what I used them for it was good enough. IIRC I had a thumbhole stock (I think it was a B&C Premier) on the .280 AI and IMO it was just about perfect for me!
The rifle I used for small bore was the Ruger M77/22 LR and -get this- a Simmons 3x9 scope!
Ringing endorsement or a shallow pool to choose from? There aren’t many lightweight, thin reticled turret scopes. Leupold and Sightron. Weaver is gone. These people are probably using old scopes. Premier made the list and I’ll go out on a limb and say they aren’t the tactical line that doesn’t exist anymore. They are probably Leupolds that they worked over from the 90s.
I'm sure that some are shooting Leupolds from the 90's but I know of at least 10 of use that have ones that were bought within the last three years.
Jorge old buddy! Hate to tell you this but another well known and respected forum member told me today his VXIII 1.5-5 crapped out on him. Had it mounted on a 458, lasted one shot today. And my VX6 has severe tracking issues. Mounted on a super accurate 300mag, I was setting it up for an upcoming hunt when it started. Needed 2” elevation at 200yds, clicked it up the appropriate number and got 7”. Clicked it back 1/2 the amount of clicks and it went all the way back to where it was before! Before I get the sermon about how great they are let me just say I’m no Leupold hater. Own more of them than anything else and have for the past 40yrs but please don’t try and convince me they track as advertised. They hold zero, look good, handle heavy recoil well and are light but accurate tracking is non existent. I’ve done the Leupold Shuffle for so many years I’ve gotten used to it.
Im the poor sap that had my 1.5x5 die on my 458 today.
I did replace it with old M8 4x long tube I’ve had for quite awhile.
The scope was good on the first shot, the next one after racking the bolt was a blurry target. I said hmmm, I adjusted it back and forth and nothing helped. The old 4x works fine. Takes me a bit to zero the old friction dials but we shall see what it does.
I still have some 6x36’s on rifles as well that seem to track great.
As Kaleb mentioned, the rest wear SWFA, Trijicon, or NF.
John’s VX6 croaking is the same story as my two previous 2-12’s. Beautiful optics but could not or would not adjust properly nor hold zero on a 7mm Mashburn Super or 338 Win, neither of which are hard recliners.
Oh and the. 458 has never seen a load heavier than a 350 grain bullet at 2600 so I wasn’t exactly punishing it.
LOL Jorge, didn't know had safes full of junk optics either, will say, like Beretzs, broke the cam/cams in two different 1.5-5's with my 505 Gibbs chunking 600gr Woodleigh solids at 2450+ fps, it's a scope eating heifer that remains an Express Sight only rifle, makes perfect sense, i dont need a scope for shooting couches at 16 yards ; ]
. That's pretty standard trolling bait. To which, I admit, I bit.
There you go...
And to explain further; John 55s post is indicative of a well-reasoned and valid counter-argument, while Dave's was not, as Pugs so eloquently retorted.
Also, if you will notice, I was specific in that I believed ALL OF YOU that had Leupold issues (except for yours of losing zero whilst in the safe, that's noteworthy of a signature line). Regarding the "I'm not a knob turner", i followed that by saying I much prefer reticles like the B&C Leupold used to offer.
Now I'll go back to the Campfire Forum and maybe start a new thread like "If you think JFK was killed by Oswald only, you're a kook." Fun times...
I just can[t understand how a respected poster gets bashed because he expresses his satisfaction with Leupold. Are you calling him a liar because of his experience?
A lot of people here need to grow the F up. That's why we are losing good campfire members left and right.
Now I'll go back to the Campfire Forum and maybe start a new thread like "If you think JFK was killed by Oswald only, you're a kook." Fun times...
Too late Jorge, the contingent of Campfire Conspiracy Theorists have moved on from the Grassy Knoll to more important conspiracies. You know, elections, viruses, vaccines, and such……..
Now I'll go back to the Campfire Forum and maybe start a new thread like "If you think JFK was killed by Oswald only, you're a kook." Fun times...
Too late Jorge, the contingent of Campfire Conspiracy Theorists have moved on from the Grassy Knoll to more important conspiracies. You know, elections, viruses, vaccines, and such……..
Hey, I'm vaccinated and the election was stolen...
Anyone bad mounting Leupold is likely a paid internet China scope trOll.
I heard Kennedy was shot with Remington XP100 .221 Fireball with a Leupold scope sitting on top....
I have multiple Leupolds so not bad mouthing Leupold at all. When the value and performance points at a Leupold versus some other brand, then I'll buy Leupold. If not I'll buy what I consider performance value of the other brand. Example: I just purchased 2 Atholon scopes. I'm not being anti-American or a China troll.
Even Leupold says they source out their glass to foriegn countries including Eastern Asia. Doesnt specifically say China but in direct question they don't deny it either. China has the most CNC equipment in the world. Stands to reason some Leupold glass while assembled here, comes from China. Won't keep me from buying Leupold or other brand if it is the best value for the performance I am looking for.
I'm glad you find humor and mockery in shifting POI. Likely why you've been happy with Leupolds all this time!
Serious question: Is it your understanding/opinion that a spring held under continuous compressive force, such as you'd find in a scope's erector system "whilst sitting in a safe", can't or won't experience a degree of fatigue or even breakage over time? Further, is it your understanding/opinion that a fatigued or broken spring in an erector assembly can't or won't effectuate changes in POI? Do you believe that the yearly pre season sight-in that has become near standard practice is just a preposterous waste of time, effort, and finite ammo supplies?
I'll add that all 5 scopes I've sent back to Beaverton for tracking/RTZ/loss of zero returned with language to the effect of "replaced broken/worn erector spring/s" in the problem description area. Additionally, a 4x scope, which was not having adjustment or tracking problems, was sent in to have a damaged front objective ring replaced also came back with a replaced erector spring.
Maybe that's why I keep missing and or wounding game I guess...And like I've said (ad nauseum) I do not doubt the Leupold issues. Too bad the data sheet did not publish if folks had issues with them....
Jorge old buddy! Hate to tell you this but another well known and respected forum member told me today his VXIII 1.5-5 crapped out on him. Had it mounted on a 458, lasted one shot today. And my VX6 has severe tracking issues. Mounted on a super accurate 300mag, I was setting it up for an upcoming hunt when it started. Needed 2” elevation at 200yds, clicked it up the appropriate number and got 7”. Clicked it back 1/2 the amount of clicks and it went all the way back to where it was before! Before I get the sermon about how great they are let me just say I’m no Leupold hater. Own more of them than anything else and have for the past 40yrs but please don’t try and convince me they track as advertised. They hold zero, look good, handle heavy recoil well and are light but accurate tracking is non existent. I’ve done the Leupold Shuffle for so many years I’ve gotten used to it.
Im the poor sap that had my 1.5x5 die on my 458 today.
I did replace it with old M8 4x long tube I’ve had for quite awhile.
The scope was good on the first shot, the next one after racking the bolt was a blurry target. I said hmmm, I adjusted it back and forth and nothing helped. The old 4x works fine. Takes me a bit to zero the old friction dials but we shall see what it does.
I still have some 6x36’s on rifles as well that seem to track great.
As Kaleb mentioned, the rest wear SWFA, Trijicon, or NF.
John’s VX6 croaking is the same story as my two previous 2-12’s. Beautiful optics but could not or would not adjust properly nor hold zero on a 7mm Mashburn Super or 338 Win, neither of which are hard recliners.
Oh and the. 458 has never seen a load heavier than a 350 grain bullet at 2600 so I wasn’t exactly punishing it.
I wish I would have purchased a bunch of 2.5X8X36 VX3s with the B&C had I known they were being discontinued.
Me too.
What's worse, I held off sending several scopes to the custom shop for ballistic reticles, only to have leupold shut it down........teach me to dawdle........
Zero recoil on a 12 and a half pound rifle. Miniscule amount of adjustment to get to 100 yds. Maybe they should have named this thread. Where old Leopold benchrest Scopes go. When they can't do anything else.
I just can[t understand how a respected poster gets bashed because he expresses his satisfaction with Leupold. Are you calling him a liar because of his experience?
A lot of people here need to grow the F up. That's why we are losing good campfire members left and right.
This ^^^^ I'm assuming your talking about dave7mm. I read what he post.......................
Count me as non-believer. In fact, I have a NF sitting here that s going on my buddy's 270. I grew tired of the scattered shots on a bedded Kimber Montana of known accuracy. Guess what its replacing.............
Zero recoil on a 12 and a half pound rifle. Miniscule amount of adjustment to get to 100 yds. Maybe they should have named this thread. Where old Leopold benchrest Scopes go. When they can't do anything else.
I just can[t understand how a respected poster gets bashed because he expresses his satisfaction with Leupold. Are you calling him a liar because of his experience?
A lot of people here need to grow the F up. That's why we are losing good campfire members left and right.
This ^^^^ I'm assuming your talking about dave7mm. I read what he post.......................
Count me as non-believer. In fact, I have a NF sitting here that s going on my buddy's 270. I grew tired of the scattered shots on a bedded Kimber Montana of known accuracy. Guess what its replacing.............
No , in fact that Bastige got me started on S&B scopes. It just seems when someone praises a brand a thousand jump up and tell him that he doesn't know what he is talking about.
I just can[t understand how a respected poster gets bashed because he expresses his satisfaction with Leupold. Are you calling him a liar because of his experience?
A lot of people here need to grow the F up. That's why we are losing good campfire members left and right.
This ^^^^ I'm assuming your talking about dave7mm. I read what he post.......................
Count me as non-believer. In fact, I have a NF sitting here that s going on my buddy's 270. I grew tired of the scattered shots on a bedded Kimber Montana of known accuracy. Guess what its replacing.............
No , in fact that Bastige got me started on S&B scopes. It just seems when someone praises a brand a thousand jump up and tell him that he doesn't know what he is talking about.
Say it ain’t so
I believe ol Dave shoots amongst a lot of fellas trying to win. If they thought Leupold made anything worth using they’d be all over them to cut .00001 from their group sizes.
Hell, I hear they’re known to put pointier tips on their Bullets too
I currently have a Weaver KT15 (Japanese)which also works very well. I used it for "F" class too and it worked very well in that venue as well. The only drawback is the short tube. I wish a scope like this was available now. They were cheap, the optics not bad, and they track just fine. This one is on my centerfire now. The one Leupold I use, a 12X, is OK too. Silhouette IS a fairly limited test of scope tracking. "F" class, from 300m to 900m up here, is a little more of a test. Hey Stick, Did those reticles break when they were thrown into the creek or did you just shove a pencil into them? GD
Zero recoil on a 12 and a half pound rifle. Miniscule amount of adjustment to get to 100 yds. Maybe they should have named this thread. Where old Leopold benchrest Scopes go. When they can't do anything else.
dave
Or you could say Schmidt and Bender when you have nothing else to say.
I typically don't get involved in the Leopold fire pissing contest anymore. It's been a number of years ago now. But in my time messing with Leopold's flippy erector in short range BR. A 6 mm PPC bench gun that would shoot an aggregate in the .150s all of a sudden would be lucky to shoot a half inch group. It happened to me repeatedly across three different Leopold Bench rest scopes. Did the Leopold Mary go around with United parcel service for a while. One on the gun one in transit to Oregon and another one either ready to go to Oregon or ready to go on the gun. Finally got them tuckerized which resolved the problem completely. Never had a stock Leopold go over 950 rounds without having the erector float. Very common problem. I'm reminded of being at the rifle range seeing some poor sap sitting there pounding on his deer rifle shooting inch and a half groups saying repeatedly that the rifle used to shoot tighter than that and of course it almost in every case there was a Leopold on top. Sad. From what I've read its only gone down hill. For competition I run March and Nightforce. For hunting it's S&B. I simply don't have time to mess with an inferior rifle optic. That they're using them in the short range silhouette game. Doesn't surprise me. They're cheap they're light and they're running them on a 12 lb rifle that has virtually no recoil. Sounds like a good place for them.
Dave
I think you should get rid of them "Leopold" scope's and try a Leupold....
Jorge1: Each year it is getting easier and easier to ignore the few Leupold naysayers that still exist - and are ignorant enough to keep spouting their drivel. I mounted a Leupold scope this past Sunday (August 29th) on a Rifle I had just purchased - and as expected (and has happened with me for the last 56 (fifty six!) years of my using them - it performed perfectly! Long live Leupold & Stevens - a fine American company. Hold into the wind VarmintGuy
Rimfire Rifle "Precision" predicated upon 4 MOA targets,no further than 100yds away,is an oxymoron...espoused by Morons. Read that again. Now one more time. Hint.
It's enough to horn The City Slickin' Haybale & Crockett crowd up though. Hint. LAUGHING!
Morning everyone. Headed out this morning for a 1000 yard match with a nightforce and a march.
dave
Excellent choice of scope and for the value, a much better move than a S&B
Actually the first year I competed 2011. I ran my 5 to 25 PMIi. It worked well on the big targets . But on the small targets it was not an ideal way to get the job done. P3 mil dot almost covered the small targets. Made it difficult adjusting and judging for hold. For a deer sized target I Don't think the PMIi can be beat. Dave
Good morning again all Time for day two of our thousand yard championship. I won a $100 gift certificate for Grices gun shop yesterday in a six man shoot off with my nightforce. .My over all standing is middle of the pack. So I'm probably not in any danger of winning it. But the guy im spotting for could very well win the whole thing. He only runs Nightforce.
Now I'll go back to the Campfire Forum and maybe start a new thread like "If you think JFK was killed by Oswald only, you're a kook." Fun times...
Too late Jorge, the contingent of Campfire Conspiracy Theorists have moved on from the Grassy Knoll to more important conspiracies. You know, elections, viruses, vaccines, and such……..
Hey, I'm vaccinated and the election was stolen...
Morning everyone. Headed out this morning for a 1000 yard match with a nightforce and a march.
dave
Excellent choice of scope and for the value, a much better move than a S&B
Actually the first year I competed 2011. I ran my 5 to 25 PMIi. It worked well on the big targets . But on the small targets it was not an ideal way to get the job done. P3 mil dot almost covered the small targets. Made it difficult adjusting and judging for hold. For a deer sized target I Don't think the PMIi can be beat. Dave
Good luck Dave! I'd like to drive over and compete with you guys at your next meet.
Morning everyone. Headed out this morning for a 1000 yard match with a nightforce and a march.
dave
It must suck to get beat by a guy with a crummy Leupold.
The current loopie competition scope has 15.5 MOA per revolution on the vertical turret. Not too hard to see that these Leopold geniuses don't spend too much time on a rifle range. Dave
Morning everyone. Headed out this morning for a 1000 yard match with a nightforce and a march.
dave
It must suck to get beat by a guy with a crummy Leupold.
The current loopie competition scope has 15.5 MOA per revolution on the vertical turret. Not too hard to see that these Leopold geniuses don't spend too much time on a rifle range. Dave
Morning everyone. Headed out this morning for a 1000 yard match with a nightforce and a march.
dave
It must suck to get beat by a guy with a crummy Leupold.
The current loopie competition scope has 15.5 MOA per revolution on the vertical turret. Not too hard to see that these Leopold geniuses don't spend too much time on a rifle range. Dave
Which one are you looking at? The ones I did all said 20 MOA per revolution.
It's a competition series the one I just looked at on there website says 7.5 per rev. I think that's actually worse. Try figuring that mess out without a zero stop. dave
It's a competition series the one I just looked at on there website says 7.5 per rev. I think that's actually worse. Try figuring that mess out without a zero stop. dave
Must have been this one you were looking at. All their other competition scopes say 20 MOA each turn with 38 MOA max. Agree 7.5 seems really low.
I've used Leupolds since the early 70's just out of high school. While in HS I had to use what I could afford, (a cheap beat up old used Weaver) but it did ok. After that it was nothing but Leupold for me until about a year ago and I found that because of my aging eyes I was seeing double crosshairs and I couldn't adjust the eyepiece far enough out to compensate for my eyes. So I started looking at something else and found that the Swarovski Z3 line worked with my eyes and had plenty of adjustment left.
So I started on a project to replace all my scopes with Swaro Z3. I've been handing down my Leupolds, most are VX3, to sons and daughter-in-laws who are happy to get them.
If it hadn't been for that I would still be using Leups and you wont catch me bad-mouthing their quality.
I've used Leupolds since the early 70's just out of high school. While in HS I had to use what I could afford, (a cheap beat up old used Weaver) but it did ok. After that it was nothing but Leupold for me until about a year ago and I found that because of my aging eyes I was seeing double crosshairs and I couldn't adjust the eyepiece far enough out to compensate for my eyes. So I started looking at something else and found that the Swarovski Z3 line worked with my eyes and had plenty of adjustment left.
So I started on a project to replace all my scopes with Swaro Z3. I've been handing down my Leupolds, most are VX3, to sons and daughter-in-laws who are happy to get them.
If it hadn't been for that I would still be using Leups and you wont catch me bad-mouthing their quality.
I started having the same problem with Leupolds and fine crosshairs (my favorite reticle), I mentioned it to my opthomoligist at my last checkup and he said that it caused because I was starting to develop a slight bit of astigmatism, which is correctable by glasses or contacts. I have found that it is not issue if I use a scope with the standard duplex which has a slightly heavier crosshair.
You might want to get an eye checkup to see if you are having the same issue.
The only issue I have with them is they are HELL BENT on driving away traditional hunters/scope users. Otherwise, why do away with what was arguably two of their best? the 6X42 and 2.5X8X36? (and the B&C reticle)
I’ll add the VX-3 1.75-6x32 to your list and I don’t get why Leupold discontinued the VX-R line either.
I have about 15 of them. Mostly VXII, VX2, and VX3. They work just fine for me. Had a handgun scope on a 357 maximum crater on me. Leupold fixed it free and returned it in 2-3 weeks.
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