I'm hoping to pick up a Glock in 10mm soon with the MOS system. I'd like to add a red dot on top to use for deer hunting. I just don't have much experience with micro dots. The only two I've had have been a Burris FastFire 3 and a Vortex Razor. I have no complaints about the FastFire 3, but it's been on a 22. So I'm not sure it's a fair comparison. The Razor has been a disappointment because it recently failed despite really not having much use. On the plus side Vortex did replace it quickly for me. While it was working, I was pretty happy with it.

So that's led me to research other options. I think I've pretty much ruled out the Trijicon RMR line despite it initially being my original #1 choice. I know the warranty doesn't mean everything and that the best warranty is one you never have to use. I'd prefer durability over a warranty, but I'm just seeing too many reports of the RMR failing to feel comfortable with a 5 year warranty. I'm seeing similar amounts of complaints as to what I am seeing with the other brands, but they all have a lifetime warranty vs 5 years.

Some co-workers like Holosun, but I have the same concern. They have a 10 year warranty which leaves me feeling like I'm going to be buying another one after the warranty is up and it fails. It seems like from what I'm reading that all of these things have a somewhat limited life and failures aren't uncommon. At least with one of the companies with a lifetime warranty, they can just keep replacing it.

So that brings me back to Burris, Vortex, and Leupold. I know what my experiences are with the FastFire 3 and Razor and it has me tempted to go with another FF3. My only hesitation is that almost every thread I read people like the Vortex Venom and Razor over the FF3 due to the additional brightness adjustments, and the fact that the FF3 turns itself off. Which I don't necessarily love about the FF3. This has led me back to another Vortex Razor, although I'm not opposed to the Venom. I'm not set against it, but I'm just not sold on it either after the failure I had. I've also had numerous Vortex scopes fail, which hasn't left the best taste in my mouth.

Then there is the Leupold Delta Point Pro. Initially I thought this might be the one. I really like most everything I'm reading about it. My hesitation comes from the fact that I have been unhappy with pretty much every Leupold scope I've owned and I've tried a bunch. I've had numerous failures, none that tracked correctly, several that lost zero with slight bumps, etc. 15 years ago when you would post online about this, you'd get bashed for days by Leupold fan boys. I find it comical to see how may people now are posting the same things that I've been saying about Leupold for 15 years. I'm worried the posts about this red dot may be the same scenario. People love them based on the name. Almost every report around the time it came out is positive, while I've ready several a few years later indicating the electronics failed. Although I'm seeing this with every brand. This one really seems promising, but I'm really hesitant.

Has anyone used all three? Does anyone have any recommendations? I'm open to other suggestions as well. I'm starting to think there may just not be a perfect red dot.

I haven't used it enough to recommend it, but it has done what it is supposed to do in limited use. I never have been a crack pistol shot. I was a little better with open sights on this gun than the FF3. I am pretty sure it's a me thing.

I've used the Burris Fast Fire II, Trijicon RMR and currently the Delta Point Pro. My favorite is the Delta Point Pro. It's easy to change the battery, and it has a slightly bigger window. To me it's a bit easier top pick up the dot.

The downside to the DPP is that the body is a little higher than the RMR and IF you want back up iron sights, you will need to go with extra tall sights, like from Ameriglo or Dawsons. I switched from the RMR to the DPP on my G17 MOS Gen 5 and the sights that cowitnessed with the RMR are now exactly as high as the body of the DDP and they won't exactly cowitness. I've fired it enough like that, though, that if I bring the tip of the front sight up so I can see it in the window, then I know where the dot would be in relation to that. I can fire it accurately to 50 yards that way, with no dot on at all. So I have no plans to get taller sights. But if you want the DPP, it would be best to just go with the extra tall DPP sights from Ameriglo or Dawson.

I like the Trijicon RMR as shown on this G-40 gen 4 with KKM barrel.

Picture doesn't show high Trijicon irons added later to co-witness the RMR. To me, I can pick up the dot faster that way.

I tried aftermarket triggers, sent them back, went with factory trigger worked over by my gunsmith bud who's a factory trained Glock Armorer. He's a retired SWAT sniper, knows his stuff.

Grip was worked over by Sinners Mass in San Antonio. I don't like those finger grooves, like the way they reworked the grip frame.

DF

The Trijicon is the standard all the other optics are judged by. You might want to look at the closed emitter "mailbox" type red dot sights for their reliability in wet weather. Hunting in snow, rain fog ect the closed emitter-type sights might have an advantage. Trijicon, Aimpoint, and Holosun are all solid choices. In the end, the dot optic is a piece of electronic equipment bolted on top of your handgun. It is mechanical and something that can fail, don't be surprised if it does. Most high-quality sights don't fail and are surprisingly tough and do a very good job even in harsh conditions. However, if you are that worried about ten-year warranties and all that muck, then forget the optic and use iron sights.

RMR or if you want to get the most for your money, Holosun is it. I have a pair of them and they've been flawless, both are on 9mm a Sig 365XL that gets carried every day 24/7 and an M320M17.

One advantage over many others is the battery can be changed without removal which is a big deal in my book. As a side note, I've had both over a year and batteries haven't been touched and as I said the 365XL is carried constantly.

I am also one that shoots a lot, several thousand handgun rounds a year. I may be in the minority, but I like the cheaper 407 series with the larger dot and no big circle reticle.

I know a poster here had his go tits up, but so far I am very happy with the Holosun SCS for the MOS. Sits super low and works with the issued sights as well.

I have a difficult time using open sights since my cataract surgery and have a Crimson Trace on my Glock 19 and like it a lot.

They all break, it's sort of a question of which breaks the least and under the hardest use. RMRs have been out the longest and get used the most. They are pretty tough though a buddy who failure tested a lot of pistol sights for a govt agency says the Aimpoint ACRO pro is the toughest.

The DPP is too tall to co-witness with irons.

To me, the RMR is low enough to see thru and co-witness with tall Trijicon irons.

My personal preference, YMMV.

To me, finding the dot is quicker when I have irons to co-witness.

If you have no issue quickly finding the dot, then it's moot.

DF

The RMR is the most robust of all. Period.
I have a Holosun and Venom. So far no complaints

I shoot pistols with dot sights regularly in action matches. I used Delta Point Pro's for a couple of years on Glock 34's and then moved to Sig P320 X5 Legions where I am using Sig Romeo 3 Max's. I probably shoot 8-10K rounds a year or so through these.

When I started shooting dots one of the things I read on forums was that for shooting a lot of matches most people have 2 guns set up identically, so that if they have a problem with a dot sight they still have a working pistol while the other dot gets fixed by the manufacturer. I have found that to be a good strategy. I had problems early on with both Delta Point Pro's and Sig Romeo 3's. It seems like the manufacturers have figured out some of the problems with dots because I have had no issues for the last 18 months or so. But if you're shooting thousands of rounds with a slide mounted dot it's going to take a beating and eventually something will likely break, regardless of brand.

A pistol used for hunting will probably be shot a lot less than a competition gun so what I am describing may not exactly apply to you. Not many competition shooters use RMR's because the window is fairly small and a larger window is an advantage when speed is critical. But RMR's do have a good reputation for reliability.

Nevertheless, if you shoot enough, I think you are likely to see some issues with slide mounted dots, regardless of brand. The technology is fairly new, and in a few years the best dot sights may be very robust, but I don't think it's quite there yet.

Maybe consider just upgrading the front sight to something like Trijicon HD XR and a Glock rear field sight. Started with a Leupold dpp but thought it shook too much in my hand to matter for significant gains in precision and timing at expected distances.

Almost all optics with electronics have a limited warranty period, so I consider them a consumable, like recoil springs. I suggest you watch some reviews by mrgunsandgear and Honest Outlaw and listen to their advice. They beat the crap out of stuff trying to break it.

I have no complaints at all for my RMR. I haven’t looked at reviews but Trijicon’s rep is for durability as much as anything. I’ve never owned a Burris FF but they have a great reputation for durability too, on everything from turkey guns to dangerous game rifles. If you like you’re FF3 I wouldn’t think twice about putting one on your Glock.

I really like the Holosun 507C X2 Green with either the circle-dot or ACSS. Both have the shake awake option and 50k battery life so there's no messing with turning on or forgetting tio turn off!

Circle-dot is great but not as quick as the ACSS from awkward field positions......maybe better for a 22 or carbine.


ACSS carrot when centered properly.....helps with hold-over out to 100 yards

Genius large circle for centering the reticle quickly from tough positions.....naturally intuitive to acquire.

For pure shootability and flawless design/function I would get a Trijicon SRO.

For a more robust/duty style optic I would get the RMR type 2.

If you want straight plug-n-play to see if the concept works for you, I would get the Horosun SCS. The small window is a hinderance when shooting fast but for hunting, it may just be what you're looking for. They are about as autonomous as they can get and while I have had one fail, my second one has been without issue.

I've no exposure to the latest Trijicon offerings but I suspect they'll be the gold standard that replaces the original gold standard very soon. I find it very difficult to not love Trijicon.

I love C-more sights, but it is a personal preference. C-more has a thirty year guarantee and been around longer than most. Do some investigating and pick a good one of your choice. I like the 2 MOA dot while others like a lot larger. You pick what is best for you. Good Shooting.

There is, it's Trijicon. RMR or SRO, shooter's choice.

If you guys haven’t seen the SageDynamics channel on YouTube it’s worth the watch. The guy reviews tons of gear and does a pretty thorough torture test on dot optics. He will likely have a review of many of the ones discussed here.

Thanks for all of the advice guys. I recently discovered SageDynamics and while I know not to trust YouTube as I know first hand, most of the people doing reviews are really doing paid commercials, his videos did seem very informative. Some of the video's had me considering the RMR again, but I just don't think I can do it. I went to look at them at a local store yesterday and it was my least favorite. I understand it's probably the most durable and I like how thick the body is above the glass to protect it. However, that was about all that I liked about it. What I didn't like was the fact that you have to remove it to change the battery. This is a huge negative me to. I'm going to get this for a Glock 40, which is a pretty massive gun. I'm buying it 100% to hunt and target shoot with. It's much more likely that the batteries will die on me before a hunt than it is that I'll drop it from shoulder height on concrete and it land on the top (which is how SageDynamics broke his). I already find myself having trouble finding enough time these days to get to the range to check zero as often as I'd like. I definitely won't have time to go to the range to re zero it if the battery dies the night before a hunt. Now, I know the new RMR HD changes this, but it's also at a pretty significant increase in price. I've also talked to several people that have had them fail. I didn't realize a friend had one die on him. So while it may be more durable, they still seem to fail. I just don't think it's worth paying that much more and ending up having to do it again once the 5 year warranty is up.

I really liked the Leupold DPP. That's currently my top choice. Which is odd saying, because I'm not a Leupold fan. I really liked the large sight window. I know that SageDynamics broke the glass in two of them, but I just don't see a situation like that happening often. Although I'm sure it could. This is the way I'm currently leaning.

I was talking to a client last night after going to check them out, and he also has a Vortex Venom as well as an RMR. He also was pretty convincing that he wouldn't buy an RMR again. He hasn't had it fail, but his argument was that the battery change is an issue. He preferred the Venom and it's half the cost.

I'm a little tempted by a Holosun, and I have many co-workers that love them. We've had great luck with them at work. I don't like the limited warranty, but they aren't completely out of the running yet. I just really liked that Leupold more than I thought I would.

Overall, I'm sure the RMR is a great sight. I just don't think it's a great sight for me with the things I want.

Every decision need to be made on the pros and cons.

I would expect reliability and battery life will continue to improve.
However, you are looking at a system that has complex electronics,
A battery, a light source, and a lense.


Just as normal scopes, more parts, more complexity, more points of failure.

It you want maximum reliability, it's always going to be 2 pieces of steel.

But look around.
The number of guns with dots, utilized in life and death
situations, keeps increasing.

Those folks have decided the pluses outweigh the cons.

As for battery?
Change it before your annual zero check prior to hunting season.

I’m running a Holoson 407 on my Springfield XDM Elite 10mm and I’m happy. For my Glock 20, I just run fiber optic open sights as it’s a Gen 4. I have a PSA Dagger 9mm full size that of all things, I bought a Cylee Wolf 0 and I can’t kill the thing. For $120, I’m pretty darn impressed with it. Would I put it on a gun I’m carrying for bear protection, maybe not. I also have a Taurus TX22, which I upgraded and put a Lakeline slide cut for optics. I’m running a Riton RMRsc on it. So far so good on that, but let’s be real it’s a .22LR.

So changing a battery every five years is that big of a problem for you?

I recommend the Aimpoint Acro 2, Steiner MPS, or the Holosun EPS.

#cantaffordit

LOL

#nevergonnatrythisanyway

He's completely FOS.

I have both RMRs and Holosuns.

For pure rugged reliability, I would take a Trijicon product each time.

Yes, the Holosuns, are cheaper, and many have held up well, but I have had a couple go bad on me. Fortunately the customer service has taken care of the issue. The fact is that I have a number of pistols that need RDOs, so the Holosuns make some sense, but if I was only going to have and use one, I would take the Trijicon product. 








I do like the circle dot (donut type) reticle on the Holosun though. I have it on a .40 S&W G22 Gen 3 and it lets me shoot very tight groups.






I actually prefer it over the standard plain dot.


I tend to carry this RDO sighted gun a good bit and it is quite easy to get on target quickly.

Had not seen the large circle as an aid to centering on the dot.

Finding the dot quickly seems to be an issue for me, thus the high co-witness irons.

More info on that large circle.

DF

The "donut of death." It is fast for real close-range stuff. It is too cluttered and distracting for me to shoot accurately at longer distances. I prefer the single dot for that. Whatever floats your boat. I actually kinda of prefer the open circle for fast acquisition burn it down shooting.

DF,

Finding the dot quickly is an issue for the majority of people initially and will likely continue to be until it all comes together. Having a tall front sight is a good thing. I won't pretend to give you advice on learning how to shoot with the dot though. While I shoot with one, I am not at a level that I should be teaching, and there are far too many people out there who give advice about subjects that they are wholly unqualified to do so. I instructed shooting for years but the RDOs are unique.

I do find that having the tall sight helps me find my dot faster. Plus I have done and continue to periodically practice shooting with the dot turned off. Just using the optic sight window, and the front sight, to get fast hits at closer ranges. Normally out to about 10 yards. Really it is a matter of having a solid consistent presentation.




My G22.3 has a pretty wide window combined with a tall front sight, so making hits like this is not too tough.

The agency i retired from had gone almost exclusively to test dots (1200 officers) my son works there now. As i understand it. The transition class is either 16 ir 24 hours long and many hundred rounds fired. Finding the sight is an issue.
I have about 100,000 rounds through Glocks Ave it still took me a few boxes to get it.
My Holosun has a 3 reticle choice. I like this.
Battery life has been an issue.i change them them every 4-5 months.
I buy batteries by the 10 pack online for both my pistols abet my welding helmet

The ACSS Vulcan reticle is one of the most useful and simply ingenius designs I've seen since the red dot came on the scene. I'd highly recommend giving one a go so you can see for yourself the benefit of the oversized circle for acquisition and the precision and flexibility of the carrot reticle. When the tip is on @25 you can place the bottom tails of the carrot on each side of someone's chest and connect @100 yards. Not to shabby for a pistol......

Did a quick search and found this video which did a decent job highlighting the benefit of the ACSS from akward positions.....

I would suggest a closed emitter unit or a trijicon rmr.

Anyone use the Ruger Readydot?

My fav!



Sig P365 Tac-Ops, 6MOA red dot (not green),brightness settings, always on, no shake awake.


ya!

GWB

Holosun EPS with the circle dot and solar backup is another good choice, so a closed emitter sight. The circle is fast and plenty accurate for any normal defensive distance. The dot is fine for accuracy/hunting. I don’t use the circle with dot at the same time, it’s too cluttered for my tastes.

If you are routinely struggling to find the dot, it’s because your fundamentals aren’t solid. I know that may sting, but it’s the truth. Although I like my irons to co-witness low in the optic, I would NOT use them as a crutch for finding the dot. You get the worst of both worlds trying to do that. Fix your grip, your draw stroke, and your indexing and you will start to find the dot.

I have been running 2 Riton Enclosed Emitter Dots and zero issues. Another range day coming up, and 2 friends joining me, so I imagine at least 500 rounds downrange for each pistol. For a poor pistol shooter, the 3 MOA dot gets me on target fast. Mine are on a Glock 34 and an H&K VP9 Match.