Considering a NV or Thermal optic to help with my hog problem that we've recently encountered this year. Do they make either a NV or thermal that can be used in daytime? Meaning, I've seen a few online in videos hunting and some have cross hairs, some have dot's. During daylight hours, can it be used like a regular optic?

I'm really not looking to spend a boat load of money if its 1 dimensional and can only be used at night. Yes I know its intended purpose, but was curious about what else it can do.

You will want a digital night vision scope to use day or night. Old school tube style will burn out during the day.

Thermal can be used day or night. There are advantages and disadvantages.

While thermal works well and anything with body heat sticks out like a sore thumb, anything that is ambient temperature is mostly featureless which makes it a bit of a blank slate looking through the viewfinder.

*When I say thermal can be used during the day, don't look at the sun with it. That will burn it out too.

Looking at the Pulsars. One thing I do like is the Talion xq38 which has a removable battery. So if your running out of juice, you can swap it out. The other one I looked at has an internal battery and will need to be charged. I did however notice that some offer reticle changes. And in those changes, they offer several reticles that can be visible in daylight. Its still $2k, for an optic. I wish those damn hogs wouldn't have shown up. Ha.

Hunted some with a site mark wraith during the day last season. Seemed to work fine other than having to deal with turning on and off, battery packs, etc. I’ll get one at some point.

Be aware though you can shoot enough hogs to make a dent. Maybe by trapping them with a pig brig or something similar that can catch large groups.

Take a look at our selection of refurbished Pulsar Optics at substantial savings

You can do okay with a digital night vision scope, but if you buy one and then ever mess with a thermal, you'll wish you'd spent more and got the thermal instead because virtually nothing can hide from the thermal. BUT, here's what you need to consider: there's detection, and there's aiming.

For detection, nothing beats a thermal. Nothing can hide from it. That makes a thermal monocular almost essential, and the reason is that scanning for detection with a thermal rifle scope mounted to a gun will flat wear you out. It is terribly inconvenient. You don't have to have the very best thermal monocular to get by, either. Its purpose is just to tell you there's a critter "over yonder." Whatever scope you choose needs to be good enough to distinguish between cattle, deer, and hogs once you're aware there's something there, and it does not have to be thermal to do that. One of the better DNV units would probably serve you well, but if you can afford a thermal scope you'll want that instead.

One disadvantage of the DNV units is that they require an infrared emitter of some kind. Thermals do not. When you happen to be behind foliage and that IR emitter is active, it can degrade the performance of the scope itself because of all the reflected IR coming back into the scope. Thermals are completely passive, and are not subject to reflections as the DNV units are.

I'd look for one of the Pulsar Axion Key monocular units, and then buy the best DNV or thermal scope I could. The Axion Key will, as I have said, let you know when there's something there to look at. A better scope will let you know definitively whether or not it's something you'll want to shoot.

For the money, it is tough to beat a small handheld thermal scanner combined with a digital night vision scope on a rifle. The scanner is far easier to use as a viewing device than a rifle-mounted thermal scope. I even use mine during deer season before first light and after last light to see what comes out or what is bedded down near me, as well as to look for hogs arriving. Some guys use them for squirrel/coon hunting and a lower-magnification (1.5-2.5x) unit can be used for deer recovery after the shot. Some guys start with the thermal scanner and pair it with a green or red flashlight alongside their rifle. The thermal scanner just makes it easy to see what your eye cannot see. I like the Axions from Pulsar.

I didn't even consider a monocular, but that could work added with just a little moonlight with my Polar.

I agree with others a thermal monocular is the way to go for picking up animals. I've never scanned with just my gun/scope but have friends who hated it after the first 30 minutes and shortly bought a thermal scanner. A handheld monocular is just so much more convenient. Something like an AGM Taipan 384 or iRay Cabin will fit most. As others have mentioned, thermal scopes are great but its a buy once cry once deal. There are ~$2k thermals that will work but you will be wanting to upgrade shortly. I'd say around the $3k mark you can get a good 384 thermal. I've been running a Bering Optics Super Hogster which has fit my needs for the last 3 years and only upgraded to a 640 w/lrf recently.

NV will obviously be a lot cheaper. Pulsar C50's are around $1400 and probably one of the better NV scopes or Rix just came out with the Tourer T20 for $600. I recommend upgrade the IR light for either NV. NV is better for identification as others mentions but with a little time behind a thermal/watching thermal videos its not a problem identifying an animal based on body movement. I went straight thermal from the start and haven't looked back. I'm not a fan of the reflection from vegetation that happens with NV/IR light or if an animal is in beans/grass field it can be difficult at times to find them with NV if they aren't looking at you to get the eye shine.

If hunting open areas, I could certainly see the advantage of also having thermal for your scope as well. Same goes for hunting on foot and trying to aim through brush or scattereed timber. The digital NV is going to give you glare. If you hunt mainly lanes and small food plots like I do, the NV scopes with a stronger illuminator is a way to have a useful aiming device for under a grand, plus you can use it in the daylight if you are making a late afternoon hunt that transitions into night. I'm trying to justify a thermal scope to go with my handheld but I'm having a tough time with it, based on my results with the Wraith HD and Neith night vision units. I imagine I'll bite off at some point.

I did not read all of the responses and this idea has probably already been mentioned, but in case not…

I have both night vision and thermal. Thermal is far superior. Once you’ve used it, you won’t want to use any other option. It is that much better.

What I do is use my day scope in the daytime and then remove it and attach my thermal for the night time. The thermal mount returns to zero excellently. My day scope is also on quick detach rings, and it returns to zero very well.

Only takes a few seconds and then I’m not compromising or trying to make a specific scope work in a situation it’s not Best suited. I’m using a super hogster and I’ve been very happy with it. The next step for me is a thermal scanner.

We use thermal scopes on rimfires at dairy farms to kill rats and pigeons. Scanning with the rifle works for me. My partner sometimes uses a scanning thermal, only because his thermal scope has relatively high base magnification and narrower FOV. I'm happy with lower magnification (just over 2x), being able to scan with the scope. Faster locating and killing.

I bought a Pulsar Thermion 2 XQ38 last year to shoot hogs at night and man it's fun. I haven't hunted with it during the daylight hours, but
have played around with it in the yard looking at dogs, etc. Most upper end Pulsars have an internal battery and an external battery that can
be removed. I bought an extra external battery to easily swap them out when the one in the scope gets drained. The internal battery has a USB
port to keep it charged and it comes with a charger to charge the external batteries. Their technology continues to constantly change for the
better. My XQ38 is only a little over a year old and already obsolete. I was on the fence between night vision and thermal, but definitely glad
I went with a thermal.

These guys have 291 episodes. They discuss thermal scopes, rather than vids of killing stuff.

This week their episode is in regards to "entry level" thermal scopes.




Best,

GWB

Very nice. I'll have to watch.

Thermal on the rifle is the superior way to kill pigs in the dark. They glow in the dark and you can see them through brush and fog and such. NV is good for navigation and movement. I will run a laser, but the thermal gets 99% of the kills.

You need to have a deep pocket.

https://pulsarnv.com/products/thermion-duo-dxp50

$3k and under Night vision scope/thermal scanner.......




ya!

GWB

The OP was asking about double duty, day and night. I don't think a thermal is going to help in daylight.

I recently bought an AGM Taipan thermal monocular to pair with my old faithful Sightmark Wraith night vision with an upgraded illuminator.

The thermal is amazing for finding animals without using the rifle to spot.

I'm hunting in a hayfield hedgerow and have a clear view of approaching animals.

In a forest, a thermal is great and the night vision does reflect and doesn't give nearly the same definition.

The Night Vision scope is a camera that works in daylight for shooting or sighting in, or dark with an illuminator .

Sometimes use thermal in daylight. Works fine unless background is same temp as the animal. Helps to turn up the brightness some.

Agree thermal is great for locating live or downed animals, and much easier to spot them just inside tree lines vs a regular day scope.

Forgot to mention another thermal advantage: it's passive. Animals may not see IR well as visible spectrum, but some do. Rats, for sure.

NV has advantages tho.

I have a Pulsar thermal scanner and a Sightmark 4K Mini NV scope. I very much like this combo. Having said that, I have had the opportunity to use my friend's Trijicon IR Reap Thermal scope and it is a true game changer. However, this setup is much more expensive. If you got the $ and don't mind spending it, I would recommend a thermal scanner and scope. One thing I have done to avoid having to buy CR123 batteries for my Sightmark is buying a 10,000 mAh external battery pack with a QD lever mount that attaches to my rifle's pic rail directly in front of my 4K Mini (bought mine from a company named Perceptive Outdoor Gear). BTW I use this on my bolt-action hunting rifle (don't have an AR) and I mount my 4K Mini far enough back to get good eye relef, which leaves enough space in front of the scope to mount the external battery. The external battery is supposed to be good for about 8-10 hours.

If you want to compare cheap, DNV vs a decent 384 thermal in the $2-2.5k range, then it’s fishing bass tournaments in a canoe vs a Ranger boat. I’m not going into the weeds, but the thermal works day or night and your discernment can be refined by utilizing your palettes and learning your optic’s features for varying conditions. The few DNVs I’ve used often only give you eyes at night from the IR reflection at range, while you can’t even see the animal behind them. Decent mounts that retain zero allow having dedicated day and night optics for the same rifle, without losing zero….assuming we’re talking ARs mostly. Plus, most thermals can be zeroed for up to 5 different guns. I doubt I ever go back to any form of NV, other than thermal….and I’ve used and had access to some top tier night devices for over 20 years.

this is going to be an ignorant question, how do you zero a thermal during the day or do you have to do it at night with some type of heat source?

You can do it in the daylight using a handwarmer or square of foil being hit by sunlight.

Normally use an ice cube in a baggy stapled to the target. Foil tape works great if the sun is reflecting off of it.

If you have a steel gong, you can either heat it or put it in the freezer for a while. Have done both, and it works very well.

I get it, also need a secondary day spotting scope to see the holes to make adjustments?

I have found that one or two of the Hot Hands hand warmers work excellent.







Minute of hoglet @ 100 yds.




ya!


GWB

Or you can walk to the target…..

With handwarmers, you’ll see evidence you’re ‘on’ in the thermal….heater will get ‘smeared’ or leak heat in your viewfinder. I generally send two more, then walk to it or use a spotter to check the group. I’ll also set up 3-4 ‘heated’ targets, with the handwarmers folded in half. Toe warmers with the sticky back are a better size, imo. I’ll also tape some to the backside of my steel plates for ‘play’.

Easiest I found is to just use Duck brand chrome duct tape from Wally World or where ever.

Cut to the size you want & stick it to your target.

Angle it up slightly to reflect better. You can cut little squares to repair previous holes.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Duck-Tape-Brand-Chrome-Duct-Tape-1-88-in-x-15-yd/23212759

I use the two hothands method myself.

Place one... Aim and shoot.

Take second hothand and put it centered on your bullet hole.

Make adjustment... Verify.

I use the base power for sighting and hunting as well.

Hang a small fender washer on a nail . Stick the nail in target backer. Heat the washer with a torch.
Much more precise aiming point than a hand warmer.

Yeah, that two shot check I posted above on that hand warmer shows just how horrible they can be for accuracy.

Most of the guys I've seen shooting thermals on base power are lucky to hit the hand warmer, but seem to do okay on hogs and coyotes...

Skin the cat however you want, but I like to get more than one shot on a target. I also don’t like to ruin all the paper I just put up with spall from any metal too close by.

As mentioned previously



minute of hoglet!

ya!


GWB

I take those handwarmers and fold them in half. I dial to get 1" high at 100yds with my 6.5 or 308

Most all my shots are 120 yds and under.

Longest shot to date w/Thermal



+/- 160 Yds, 100 yd. Zero




ya!

GWB

My longest was 246 measured yards on a solitary boar meandering through the mesquite on a hillside. I was in an elevated blind and I could see him appearing and disappearing in the mesquite. I popped him and it was a bang flop. The next morning, my daughter and I walked out and used my Leica rangefinder to get the distance.

That's a good poke!


ya!

GWB

Lots of good solutions.

Thermal sees differences in heat and strong sunlight heats black up much more than white.

I have very good luck with black dots on white paper in strong direct sunlight.

Weak sun or overcast I use a AA battery wraped in aluminum foil shorting the battery. Gets up to about 150 degs and lasts about 30 minutes.

Slice an X in the target and insert the battery pointing at you. Very precise 1/2 inch diameter aim point.

One shot on the battery makes the battery go away but the thermal is zeroed.

Getting way more info than I expected. Love it. Now I need to figure out how to get something and not have the wife chit a chicken. Because I really think she did when I bought my SB Polar a while back.

I found cutting a 1" square in cardboard and taping the hot hands on the back for 100yd sight in works good.

I often use foil tape over a hot hands, with a hole or small open square in the middle. Can usually see them both….one hot and one cold, and any ‘misses’ in the foil tape show up well.

Man, reading these threads gets expensive!

I'm headed to TX in March for another pig hunt. I had such a good time, last year, I'm taking my 13yo son with me this time.

An e-mail from Palmetto State showed they had the Wraith HD 2-16x28mm for $399, and after doing a little looking around on their website, I found the Wraith 4k Mini 2-16x32mm for $499. I opted to spend the extra $100 for the smaller, lighter Wraith. I'm looking forward to trying out some night vision this year. Should be fun!

Good little optic.

Get a good light to run with it. It's like someone turned the lights on compared to cheap lights those can come with.

https://sniperhoglights.com/50lrx-gun-hunters-package-with-1-4-colors/

No schit, thanks guys.

Just dropped about $3.4K on a thermal set-up. Scope and monocular.

And was only about one notch above entry level quality.

Merry Christmas to me!

We got night hunting with thermal/White light/NV legal on public and state this year, in Wyoming.

The Commision tried to screw it up and right now Fed public is closed from Sept to Jan.

They screwed up and left State Trust Lands open to predator hunting at night and expect the Legislature to do a big ol bitch slap on the Commision over Fed public.

You'll get plenty of use for the new toys.

Yup, knew that, that's why my wallet sprung a leak.

Have to wear an IR strobe beacon to be legal. That seems kind of strange.

Legality of hunting w/thermal by state........

Predates the 11/23 missive, but FWIW.........

"Sightmark has done its due diligence and has reached out to the Fish and Wildlife representatives from all 50 states to determine the legality of thermal optics for hunting within their jurisdictions so that anyone who is unsure about using our new, powerful Wraith Thermal digital thermal riflescope on a night hunt can rest easy knowing that it can be used without legal repercussions.

The laws on thermal optics vary by state. Before trying your hand at night hunting with your new thermal device, it would be good to check with your local Game Warden before you reserve a date on the calendar for a hunting trip."

https://sightmark.com/blogs/news/thermal-legality-by-state




Lucky for me I'm in Texas and can do so 24/7/365!

ya!

GWB

I was at the meeting when that rule was adopted and the big issue is the dates when night hunting predators on Fed public is allowed.

If you notice they don't mention any restrictions for State Trust Land because they (commisionars) thought that would stop the night hunting on State land.

It does not as the legislation specifally allows night hunting on State land so their restrictions do not apply on State Trust Land.

The commision also went in Executive Session in the middle of the discussion which violates Wyoming's Public Meetings Act.

We will have to wait until the Wyo Legislature is back in session but word on the street is they will probably revoke the Commisions authority to regulate pretator hunting on public and State land.

The Governors office is pissed and as the bill passed by unanimous consent this is a pretty clear case of a regulatory agency thinking they get to write laws instead of the Legislature.

Good info already here. If I may add my two cents - if you seriously consider feral hogs a problem to your land and you want to ease things - don't stop at thermals.
Add trapping to your tool box. Trap sounders. Shoot breeders and leaders using thermals. Have a game plan year round. You can put a serious dent into local hog populations, but if you really want to solve a problem, thermals alone will not do it.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7359029/

Yeah. Alabama is stupid on it. Outside of the licensed ‘season’, it’s illegal to possess any of them while hunting. Game recovery be damned.

it would seem to me that a thermal or NV scope that took "interchangeable in the field" batteries would make a lot of sense. Something you have to recharge every 6 hours with a usb port would be a pain and about useless if your were hunting in an area where you don't have access to electricity like some deer camps here. Go back to the truck and use the charger crank the engine I guess.

The sitemark wraiths take CR123 batteries but I’d still rather use rechargeable battery packs. Can buy as many as you need to get through a trip for cheaper than lithium batteries or recharge in the truck.

Most of them have dual power options. There are good external power pack setups, too. Extra batteries or power packs for 5-10 days of use are not much of an issue in most cases. Don’t let speculation drive the truck. There are some sensor materials that are more ‘delicate’ than others, when it comes to temp extremes, vibration, and long term use. The military specs Vanadium Oxide over Silicon Dioxide for durability reasons. Peak performance is identical. You have to do some research usually to figure out which Pulsar sensors from Belarus are VOx as opposed to S2O.

I own the Pulsar Talion XQ38. As mentioned, I love the removable batteries. They are currently $85 each. It has 10 reticles options, 10 heat signature color options. I have had it on about 8 hunts. I am not completely fluent with it, but I can hit the necessary menu options now in the dark. The two best benefits are the zoom capability. It has three, 2.5X, 5X & 10X. It is bluetooth wireless to your chosen monitoring device. I use an iPad. The scope will function for 5 reliable hours on a single battery, which, is about as long as I choose to sit. The iPad, though about ten years old, will still run for about 8 hours of continuous illumination. This reliability allows you to focus on the hunt.

I have seen the wireless connection to the external monitor dropped from the muzzle blast. That is with about 12” linear between the two. Currently experimenting with effective placement. Even though the connection drops, the scope is still perfectly operative thru the objective. Being my first thermal purchase & experience, I am quite satisfied.

The ability to go on daylight hunts is an advantage for digital NV. Then swap to night mode at twilight. Most of the thermal and NV optics offer a sleep-mode to conserve battery life. They come awake quickly with the touch of a button.

I am thinking a monocular first. What is the opinion on the pulsar Axion 2 for $1500??

I’ve had a few Axions. A 384 or 640 version is a very capable yet handy option. Slips in a coat pocket or into your shirtfront on a neck lanyard.

Silver HVAC tape works really well to sight thermal in the daylight, even on a bright sunny day. I tried hand warmers, but had trouble seeing them.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Nashua-...-Foil-Sealer-Duct-Tape-1906075/100030120

I had good luck with an "X" made with black electrical tape on white paper.

I use another Bering Super Hogster for a spotter.

When I'm not using it for that, it rides on another rifle.

If I'm going to spend that sort of money, I want it to have crosshairs and go on a rifle.

I have wondered about Bering optics! The super hogster looks great but a lot more than the pulsar monocular.

I bought an ATN from Cabelas with my club points. All they had left was the display model which I should have know better to buy. I had issues right away getting the optic to turn on. I charged it overnight and then took it out in the woods to try it out. Once it came on it worked okay and was pretty easy to use. The picture is not very defined, but you can make out animals. You can change modes to make animals show up white or black. I took a few photos to show a small doe in black and then a squirrel in a hole white. I had all kinds of issues trying to get the optic to turn on so I finally returned it. I looked at the Wraith from PSA for $349, but decided to pass on going with a Night Vision model. I buddy has a Pulsar and it is awesome, but I just can't see spending that kind of coin.





Small Fawn about 50 yards away...





Squirrel coming out of a tree about 30 yards away.

So, what was the sensor resolution on that ATN? It’s about what I’d expect from 160, or even 256.

IMHO, other than for discovery, a unit with a sensor less that 340, will not prove satisfactory.

What is the base magnification of that unit. I noticed that your images were at 5.4x and 7.2x, so right there your images are degraded.


IIRC the amount of pixels are reduced by each time you increase the magnifcation over base.

An example. This is a vid using a Bering Optics Super Yoter, 640 Sensor, 12 Micron sensitivity, 3x base magnification. Temp would probably be 80 degrees F + and humidity below 80%.

The distance is +/- 120 yds.

Starts out at 3x base mag, then up to 6x and finally 9x. After the shot up to 12x and then back to 3x.

One can see the degradation in image quality each time the magnification is increased.




Other than for discovery, I would postulate that for $1K and under one would be better served with night vision and a good aftermarket IR Illuminator for actual hunting. Particularly if you are shooting over a feeder or at a stationary object vs. running and gunning moving target in a field.

The same distance as the vid above with the ATN 4K Pro 5-20 and Night Snipe N750 IR Illuminator.



Best,

GWB

^^^didnt pick up on the Xs since it was so tiny, but the 3.0x doesn’t look terrible on resolution. Folks new to thermals don’t realize that base magnification is where you should be content for resolution on 384s. 640s you can halve, but halving below that starts to suck quickly.

the ATN and light did not look to bad. If the sightmark is better than that, it may be workable. Focusing on a detection thermal monocular right now. The Athlon unit has decent specs, about the same price as the axion xq35 pro

I don’t have a lot of opportunity to hunt at night so I didn’t want to spend a ton just to see if it would be worth the investment. I’ve got friends and family that have high dollar thermal and high dollar night vision, I know they work well.

But I saw video from the sightmark Wraith a friend has and found the mini 4K for $549. The same friend brought his AGM TM10-256 thermal scanner by and I found it good enough to find one of my own. It was about the same price so I’m into the deal for about $1200 and it should let me decide if I need to upgrade later or just dump the whole idea.

I haven’t been able to hunt yet due to deer season but hope to get out sometime soon. I took the scanner with me on my walk around our lake last night and usually there are deer everywhere but all I could find was a person walking down the rock amphitheater.

Only about 50 yards away but I think it’ll be good enough to scan with. I was learning how to use the scanner paired with my phone and figured out I need a memory card for the unit itself, it’ll be much easier.

I could go with the AGM TM19-384 for about $1700 but then I could up that to $2200 or so and get a thermal scope. Then I might want a 640 so it kinda never ends.

I’ll try what I’ve got and see if it’s worth the investment for me.

Thermal @ 385 res is very solid. Prices are getting low.

640 res is great but 385 gets you 90% on a weapon sight. In a way I might say 385 res is a 6X day scope and 640 res is a 10X.

Not much extra gets done with a 10X day scope.

AGM Rattlers @ 385 res are very good buys.

As other have said for NV a powerful IR light makes even cheaper night vision work pretty well. Coyotes and pigs don't care if you are emiting lots of IR energy, it's not a battle field.

The super power of being able to see in the dark is getting cheaper.

That it is.

And with the improving quality of the entry level stuff and increasing number of units sold, I'm seeing a very direct correlation to increased distribution of masters-in-education degrees for coyotes here in the midwest.

3 good starting thermals would be Thor-4 by ATN, Infiray Bolt TL35 v2 and AGM Rattler all with 385 Resolution. I use the TL35 and the thor-4 and my nephew uses the rattler. The Thor-4 will go all night on full charge other two you need to replace battery after 3-4 hours of uses. The TL35 gives best picture but also is affected more by humidity where the Thor will look grainy but still gives good picture on bad nights. anything under 300 yards they all work fine.

Agree the 384 resolution is pretty versatile. Friend and I both have AGMs - one Rattler, one Adder. We just kill rats and pigeons in/out of dairy barns, but would have zero problem killing deer to 200 yds or so with them. We tried a 256 resolution and weren't happy. Same with the ATN (?300 resolution?).

Also agree the 640 doesn't add much. I have a 50-640. Better? Yes. But not enough better to justify the premium for most my purposes.

"What kind of thermal/NV equipment do I need" is about like "what kind of offroad vehicles do I need". You really need to know the conditions, ranges, game hunted, terrain, budget, etc in order to make a well-educated decision.

It is a great time to be getting into night hunting though, as Burns and SKane have mentioned above. You can do a lot in the field these days with a fairly small budget. I'd dare to say that a hog hunter in my part of the world with $2k of equipment can kill 95% of the hogs that his buddy with $6k of equipment can kill, given the same hunting scenarios. This is due to our limitations on conditions, terrain, range, and so on. Switching to different terrain or also trying to also incorporate different game, like called coyotes, and the bigger budget is going to start to offer some real advantages in flexibility and capability.

I agree for the most part, although there are some scenarios here where a hunter here had better have either 640res or a decent resolution NV setup with good illuminator. This would be when trying to positively identify a target animal in the 175yd+ range, especially in sub-par conditions, tall grass, or the like. I was hunting the other afternoon (daylight) when a black shape stepped out on a narrow lane at 190yds or so. I immediately thought it was a hog, but once it began moving again, I could see that it was a chubby black bear cub. If that cub had been stationary at that range at night, I don't know for sure that your typical 2-2.5x 384res thermal scope would have offered the ability to confidently tell it from a hog. A 640res thermal likely would, and I'm sure that a good digital NV setup would. For folks that are only hunting inside 100yds, that capability might indeed be an unnecessary expense.

lol. Coyotes and pigs have definitely been accustomed to IR lights now.

Thats why I switched to thermal a few years ago

I've seen a few pigs at close range take a bit of notice on an IR light, but they were maybe 30-40yds from me. They didn't spook, but definitely looked at me for a few seconds. I've also seen several big hogs that had previously spooked off a green weapon-light take zero notice of an IR beam in their faces at 70+ yards.

That's interesting (critr's noticing IR light), I used to hunt a lot at night with red lights and coyotes seldom ever seem to notice. We were limited to shotguns and had to get them in real close too. Only recently they opened night hunting for nuisance hogs and coyotes with any legal means, that's what got me interested again.

I use the chemical hand warmers stapled to a large sheet of plywood


It’s takes awhile to range animals using thermal. Doesn’t matter because I keep shots under 150 yards. Hard to tell if 50 yards or 125 yards at first

Even rats notice the IR. We killed plenty with NV, but with thermal they hang around longer and reappear sooner after the first couple shots.

Also agree it's tougher to judge distance with thermal vs NV. Most places we operate have been ranged during daylight hours.

thermal for the win lol. I like bering super hogster

I have never played with an IR light, I have hunted with a red light, can the human eye see the IR lights we are talking about?

No, but I’ve seen coyotes react to just about any emission.

Just for giggles n' grins

The first vid is one of the best I've taken with either the Super Hogster or Super Yoter in regards to clarity and quality. IMHO the conditions were about as good as it gets. It was the occasion of a 24hrcampfire Hoot n' Shoot at Thompson Lodge, Crystal City, Texas, early march. Temps would be in the high 60's low 70's and low humidity. Distance would be +/- 65 yds. I had limited out on pigs (dead pig to the left of the feeder) and was waiting to be picked up, when this sounder came in.


Bering Optics Super Hogster 2.9-11.6 x 35 mm, 384 x 288 Core:

The Bering Optics Super Hogster 2.9-11.6x35 Thermal Weapon Sight is one of the worst kept secrets of 2021. The internet is buzzing about the Bering Optics Super Hogster's great image quality and great price. What makes this scope Super? The Super Hogster uses a 384x288 thermal core like many mid-priced thermal scopes, but unlike all the others, it has a 12-micron thermal core with a NETD rating of <40 MK. The 12-micron core provides a sharper image than the Hogster R35 or other brands of scopes using a 384x288 17-micron core.

https://outdoorlegacygear.com/blogs/news/bering-optics-super-hogster-review

The reason I purchased the Super Hogster at the time was the 2.9 base magnification and the 12 micron core. IIRC the Super Yoter had not been released.







Next vid is the Super Yoter

SUPER YOTER R 3.0-12.0x50mm Compact Thermal Weapon Sight, VOx 640X480 core resolution, 12 µm pixel pitch with the LaRue Tactical® QD mount (BE46050L)

I remember the night well. It was June 23, 2023. I almost killed myself by zigging when I should have zagged, rolled my four-wheeler and got pinned under it. Laid me up for a month.

Anywho, I had set up at a place I call Creekside. It affords me a 120 yds shot at the Roadside pen.......




and a 90 yd. shot at the Creekside feeder.





I got there about 8pm as it did not get dark then until after 9PM.

I killed two hogs and a coyote at the Creekside feeder between dark and 11 PM. It gets hot in Texas in June. Temp was 91 degrees F when I climbed down at 11.



Was in no mood to deal with the other two after my accident.

Bear in mind that even thought the Super Yoter is a 640 unit, one can certainly tell the difference when the ambient temperature is near the same body temp as your quarry and the rocks are hotter than both.





Ya!

GWB

On my 2nd I ray bolt. 1st one crapped out without alot of use ( wouldn't hold charge and external battery wouldn't power it). 2nd one is good so far. Decent thermal for the $.

anyone use a thermal clip on? take it off use as a spotter, put it on use on a scope to shoot?

In theory it's a great plan, but it'll cost you kills.

I've had coyotes burn into the set in a matter of seconds, good luck closing the deal on those while fiddleyfucking around trying to get the scope on the gun.

A large percentage of the sets I transition back & forth between the gun and scanner trying to keep up with a varmint. Impossible with one unit.

I like to critique misses on the video. A clip on does not show the reticle in the recording to help determine the hold or shot placement.

^^^
I ran a 640 clip on w/a Wilcox shoe mount for 5-6 years or more. IF I was in a ‘set’ position, the thermal was on the gun and I had a tripod setup to scan with it. If I was moving/stalking, THEN it was off as a scanner. It’s possible it did cost me a shot on a coyote, but I can’t recall it. If you only have one device, it’s not a bad way to go, so long as you set up and use it logically. Sure, it’s better to have a scanner and a sight, but you still have to transition from one to the other, and I could throw that thing in that shoe mount pretty fast as I was bringing the gun up. It did kill a few dump truck loads of coyotes, so I can’t complain. I actually miss that one a lot.

Animals you hunt with IR can and will see your 850nm light.

If you are spooking animals with it, switch to a 940mn... (In many cases, it just requires a swap of the interchangeable light source, and not the entire light.)

I'm sure not knocking what you have, and don't mean to have you take it that way...

But those images are horrid for hunting and shooting at stuff. There is absolutely no way I would fire at anything when all I had to go by is that resolution. For my purposes, I may encounter livestock, or even some wildlife that may be out of season or otherwise protected. I want to be 100% confident that what I'm shooting at is the animal I want to shoot at. And I also want enough clarity to be able to put a killing shot where I want it, on the animal. Just shooting at a lit up blurry image doesn't meet my criteria for hunting at night.

If a animal appears in your thermal and is blurry you can refocus scope or change a few settings and do a NUC. if it's then still a blur then it's still out of your I.D range and you shouldn't be shooting anyway. Also why you want a thermal with 384 or better resolution as it allows you to positively I.D. farther out. I have three different thermal brands and can positively I.D out past 300 yards to a 1/2 mile, from a mouse to a deer or cow but if humidity is high then the I.D. range goes down.

I tried that. worked ok on hogs. but didn't work that well on coyotes moving, trying to reattach scope on the rifle in the pitch dark. Plus its tough doing anything in the dark lol


I use a a tri pod with a rifle attachment. I think it works ok for scanning

For night calling the tri-pod is the way to go for shooting and scanning. You can't scan 360 from a sitting position.

PSA keeps tempting me with this one.

You can do that with either a clip on or thermal scope. The AGM Rattlers come with a QD mount in either clip on or scope configuration.

As said above removing and attaching scope/clip on at night is sub optimal.

I have been using the AGM StingIR 640 in clip on mode and when set up right it a very solid choice over a dedicated thermal scope. I have a QD mount on it but I don't take it off during the night.

Right now I don't know which I like better, the AGM StingIR in front of a 3-18 VX-6 or the AGM Adder thermal scope. Both in 640 res.

thank you, it really would be a pain in the neck to remove and attach a scope in the dark. That said any comments on how repeatable the AGM QD mount reattachment is??

My partner removes/replaces his Adder (also an American Defense QD mount) almost every outing. We typically do mixed daylight pigeons then rats with thermal. While I prefer two rifles he just swaps optics on a Ruger Precision rimfire. No loss of zero that we've ever seen.

If your taking it off and putting it back on the same rail, it's golden.
If not, it's a crap shoot.
That's why I switched to using BoBro QD mounts.

SJC

AGM uses ADM mounts.

High quality mounts and repeatable.


If you are switching to a different rail/rifle I would use another zero profile if using a thermal scope.

The ADM mounts that come with AGM thermals are good.

If you are talking clip on there is a lot more going on switching rifles and clip ons need the software to store multiple zero profiles.

You can record the shift for each rifle but clip ons should have a simple way to switch profiles like a thermal scopes.

ADM mounts are great if your taking it off and on the same rail, but if you need to loosen or tighten the locking lever pressure to fit on a different rail, their not so good at keeping POI.
Don't need to worry about that with BoBro mounts.
I've been down the clip on rabbit hole two times and never again, even if I won the lottery and could afford a real clip on that could hold zero.

SJC

If we are talking thermal scopes then there will be a different zero profile for the different rail/rifle. So many more varibles than just the rail. One of my AGM Rattlers has zero profiles for a 22 Long Rifle AR, a 5.56mm AR, and a 6.5mm Creedmoor AR. The ADM mount locks up on all without adjustment but obviously there is a bit of difference in the zero profiles.

I don't think BoBro even makes mounts for the AGM Rattler in either scope mode or clip on mode which was the question to which I responded.

I find the ADMs to fit many of my rails without adjustment but again each rifle will need it's own zero profile, regardless. I would suggest checking how the ADM mount fits ones rails before spending money just to spend money on a mount that does not exist.

I have good luck with a couple of clip ons but it takes a bit of setup to get it right. The newish StingIR when used with a proper mount is pretty solid.

I don't see how adjusting the lever tension would make any difference whatsoever. The fixed side of the mount is always in the same position. The lever just changes the clamping force of the floating wedge. You might get a difference between "barely tight to hurculean tight" just by allowing movement or stressing metal. But I don't think any variation of "reasonably snug" would make any appreciable difference in the POI for the ranges you shoot with a thermal.

You might not see it, but changing locking lever tension when mounting changes POI.
I've tested every QD mount out there and the most repeatable mount when being used on different rails has been BoBro.
I can take my backup scope and switch it from a centerfire to a PCP air rifle and not worry about POI shift after changing to the correct profile in the scope.
With the ADM mount I need to back the locking clamp nut out 1/4 turn or I can't get it to clamp on and it never has had repeatable POI.
When your just taking it off and putting it back on the same rail there's no issues with the other brand QD mounts.

SJC

I have both a Pulsar Trail XQ50 (with their QD mount) and then a Pulsar Thermion in an ADM QD mount and both regularly swap between different rifles with programmed profiles. All of them return to the proper POI each and every time. Maybe not to the 1/2 MOA, but certainly accurate enough for 200 yds shots with a thermal. On all of the QD levers, I follow the "lever makes engagement at 45 degrees" and snugs on the remainder of the stroke tightening philosophy. So maybe I'm more consistent with the tightening force then most.

I'm not familiar with a BoBro mount, but I assume it must have some type of spring tension that makes it more consistent on clamping pressure.

Like you I just have different zero profiles in the thermal scope. That covers all the bases when swapping rifle as many things more important than the rail effect the zero.

And again, BoBro does not make a mount for the AGM Rattler, which was the thermal in question. The ADM mount the Rattlers come with has proven to be reliable and high quality.

I can swap the Rattler with the ADM across the three diffferent rifles that I have profiles set in the thermal without issues.

If one has a rail that is a bit out of spec it's probably cheaper to swap the rail than buy a new mount.

None of the clipons I’ve used have used their own reticle or maybe even had a reticle. They used the dayscope reticle and being in /adjusting for focus to eliminate parallax was the only caveat. I also used a flipper Wilcox shoe mount, which is in no way designed to hold any zero for a sight…. just hold it centered for viewing. I personally haven’t had issues with Larue mounts and RTZ (in addition to Bobro), and even ADMs have been close for me….though I know of plenty of folks posting about issues on the internet. Not sure on Geissele….but I don’t know of thermal use of anything but ADM, Larue, and Bobro. They’re all better than most factory mounts. I am careful about process and placement when swapping them around on guns.

You guys who swap out optics trust that the optic is absolutely returning to zero each time you swap it around?

I have very good mounts on my thermals, and have seen shifts in zero at times.

I always verify zero when I take an optic off and put it back on. I also mark and know the rail slot it was sitting in, but still noticed a POI shift. Not every time, but enough to make me verify zero each time.

The assumption (AFAIK) with mentioning ‘RTZ’ is that the zero was verified to return to begin with….otherwise, it’s just a quick release.

Yes I expect the Thermal to return to zero each time I mount it.

It takes attention to detail but I swap back and forth with a day optic and thermal without issue on multiple platforms.

You have actual real world hunting experience. Others on here don’t. I use an American defense QD mounts. Work great for thermal. When I travel and fly I just take off and carry on my person

I have an AGM TC35-384 which I leave on my rife that is setup on a tripod. I scan by bluetoothing my phone into it and watching my phone as I move the rifle around. Its allot easier on my eyes than looking through the scope or a handheld scanner for long periods of time.

Or... you could buy a Pulsar that has a "detect feature". I can prop my rifle /scope in the blind to look at the feeder and pair it to my phone. I can then put the scope on sleep mode to save battery. My phone then gets configured for "detect" and will ding/vibrate if motion is detected in the scopes field of view. You can also configure the scope to begin recording 30 seconds after "detect", so when your sorry ass wakes up and shoots the hogs, it's all recorded on video. Simple made simpler.