I was intrigued by all the good reports on the MINOX ZA3 3-9X40 but decided to try out the ZA5 2-10x40 open box special (Cameraland NY) with the standard Plex reticle. I was looking to upgrade my Leupold VX-II 3-9x40 that is currently sitting on a CLR 30-06 that's been reworked by Melvin.

Externally - scope is relatively compact and is not a heavy weight. Not as svelte as a Leupold or Weaver of similar size but not bad at all. I didn't mess with the turrets or adjustments so no comment.

Optically - Compared the ZA5 2-10X40 against the following scopes.
Kahles 2-7x36 Plex
Leupold Vari-X III 3.5-10x40 Plex
Leupold VX-II 3-9x40 Plex
Weaver V10 2-10x38 Plex
Nikon Omega 3-9x40 BDC250
Leupold 2-7x32 shotgun/mzldr (late 90's vintage) Vari-x?? with Heavy Plex

My test set-up was my back porch looking slightly down and to the west into a swampy area that gets dark very quickly. I placed a set of antlers against a water oak (light mottled grey/black bark) about 100 yards from the house. I adjusted each of the scopes to fine tune the focus adjustment to give the clearest image available for each of the scopes.

During daylight hours with the above scopes I didn't notice much of a difference between any of the scopes. I was surprised by this as I thought for sure I would see a large variance between scopes. Since I was on a covered porch I didn't notice much of a problem with flare in any of the scopes during daylight or early evening hours. The big difference was when the sun was setting behind the trees (heavy overcast) and the sodium vapor lights on the other side of the patch of woods were visible. The Minox had a terrible flare that made the scope virtually unusable at higher powers in that situation. Two other scopes were also affected, the Nikon and the Leupold 2-7 shotgun/mzldr scope but not nearly as much. The Weaver also had a tiny window for flare if I really tried to make it happen by shifting/moving the scope around. The Kahles, Leupold Vari-X III and VX-II were unaffected.

The so-called eye-box on the ZA5 wasn't bad at lower powers but was quite critical at 10X, more-so than the Leupolds and on par with the Weaver and Nikon.

A comment on reticles in low light conditions looking into a dark background. The easiest to see was the Heavy Plex on the 2-7X followed by the Weaver, Kahles and Minox. The Leupolds (other than the Heavy Plex) were harder to see and the Nikon BDC was awful and unusable to the point I wouldn't have taken the shot where all the other scopes were capable.

My overall ranking for the top three was Kahles followed by the two Leupold variables with 40mm objectives. I may try one more evening of testing to further validate my results, including looking in another direction to see if the flare is gone.

As a final check, I asked my son to look through the scopes and he picked the Leupold Vari-X III and VX-II as the best overall whilelooking at the antlers at last light. He could hardly see through the Minox (flare) and did not like the critical eye-box at all.

FWIW
Ed

Ed, Thanks for posting. Interesting results and nice to know.

I have a ZA5 in the mail now. When I get it I'll see how it stacks up with my Leupolds.

I have one in the mail to me as well, maybe the 3 x 9 is a better deal.

35fan,

Interesting post..

One suggestion...When you repeat the test, try using the sun when its low on the horizon for the flare, rather than the sodium lights..

It might be that there is something peculiar with those lights that are different to natural sunlight..

Regards,

Peter

I appreciate your posting your observations. Had I been in the market for the Minox, the 2-10 would have been my pick. Interesting to note that the eye relief is critical.

Sounds like those in the market, the 3-9 is a better deal... and not just because it has a lower price tag.

I am thinking the OP is unaware of the focusing ring on the ocular lens... I just tried to get a 2-10 ZA5 to flare in the first sun we have had in months... I could not get it to flare.

The 10x eye relief was also quite long and non-critical. I have a 6x42 Leupold I was comparing it to as the reference because it is about the best out there in both areas. At 6x the Minox runs with the Leupold.

So I just grabbed a 3.5-10X VARI-X III and measured as best I could the length of the eyebox on each at both ends of the range. The Minox was almost a quarter-inch longer at both ends... However the image degraded slightly faster while maintaining a full view in the Minox. Both scopes could be used at any power anywhere in that range, IMO.

For noncritical use, even at 10x the Minox is outstanding to my eye... I have had a large number of people look at the scope and none have been anything but seriously impressed. And the eye relief is a big part of why they are impressed.
YMMV
art

I missed delivery on mine today but will get it tommorow! The OP review had me worried!

Art, your evaluation is what I'm seeing with the 3-9 as well. That eye relief on the Minox is as good if not better than the Leupold and that is one of the main reasons I buy Leupolds.

That is also the main reason I bought a 6x42 for my 338, eye relief, the Minox as you say runs with the Leupold.

I should be getting the 2-10 any day now and I can do further comparisons.

I have not run into any critical eye box problems with the 3x9 if anything it's more generous than the Leupold Mark 2 3x9 that i run on my son's 300 WSM.

Have also not had any flare problems in the 3x9.

This is a good post though, good to throw darts at the board and compare notes with what we are seeing.
Glad the OP got this going.

I have the 3-15x ZA5. Never had the flare issue at all. Optics are right on par with the Conquest. I do, however, have to make an ever so slight adjustment to the ocular to get it focused when shooting at 100 yds and then out to 300 yds. Not a big deal for me, but maybe for others.

Dirty lenses could explain the flare, but through new, clean glass I cannot make the Minox flare. I have lots of other glass here I can make flare...

You will like the 2-10, I am quite certain.

How is the knee doing?
art

I'm certain I'll be liking it.

The knee?

It needs another treatment.

35fan,

Thanks for the report. This is the type of info that calls me to the optics thread first.

Interesting.

Appreciate the additional feedback and observations.

Also, could someone please post up some pictures showing this scope (2-10x40) along with a couple other brands (Leupold and/or Conquest) to show size comparisons?

Obliged.

Doug,

Any word on when Minox may offer a German #4 reticle?

Sitka Deer, I know how to focus the ocular and I stated that in my original post.

I repeated the test again this evening with the same results. It appears the issue is more with having your head absolutely perfectly centered when looking through the scope at 10X. If you move your head even a slight amount, forward, backward, up, down the picture hazes over. It may not be the lighting at all but the super critical eye relief/box. My son said the same thing when he looked through the Minox. All my other scopes don't do this, even a cheap V10 Weaver is better at 10X. Maybe I have a bad scope, don't know, but the scope I have is unusable above 8x period.

Ed

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/4011542/1

First of all ,thanks for your review.

The problem you are describing is common on cheaper brands of variable scopes ,especially 10x+ models (4-16s 6-20s etc) the Eye postion gets very critical and the image washes /flares out easily.

I would have never expected that on any scope made to sell for $400-500 with a German name on it.

Scopes can vary a bit from sample to sample, and of course there is the individual pair of eyes looking through them.

FWIW, , the Weaver Scopes made in Japan have a solid rep, but there is at least one guy who posts on here from time to time who SWEARS the worst scope he ever looked though was a Jap Weaver V-2-10..

And so it goes.. Everyone's mileage may vary....

Clark,

Excellent post you have, thanks.

Thanks Clark!

Thanks guys. I have to agree with Art on this one. While I'm not doubting what 35fan is seeing, I didn't have any of those problems. I think it compares very favorably to the Zeiss Conquest and Leupold VX-3.

Ed
I honestly suggest you send that sucker back... The situation you describe is nothing like the scope I have. I apologize for not reading your initial description thoroughly and I meant absolutely no insult.
art

I put in an order for the za5 2-10 open box special from doug today,,hope it was the right thing to do.i read more about the scope after i made the order than i did before i made the order.i do have a new vx3 cds to compare to when i get it .the 2-10 is just the power range i wanted and the scope is a nice size,and most that ive read everyone is happy with it.i did write minox and asked for a breakdown of where its made,,,,they wrote back german schott glass usa and german parts and put together in usa.i'd heard on forums some chinese parts,,,,they didn't admit to it if there are though.

With these scopes arriving to us in the next week or so this should make for an even more interesting thread.

Ed,
I have no doubts as to what you are describing and I would take it up with Minox.
So far from what I have read about and seen their CS is good. No harm in them checking it out.

My 3x9 critical box and relief is better than anything I currently own.

I just ordered a ZA 5- curiosity is killing me!

And what rifle are you going to put that on Jim?

I hope to be at the range in the morning hopefully well see you there.

Also, I think I'll sell that pack I showed you and your dad. Interested?

Maybe- I'll give you a call tomorrow about the pack.

Dad is coming over about 10 am so we will be up around then. Dad, Shannon and me.

I think I will try the ZA5 on my pre 64 300 H&H. I gave the VX III 3.5-10 that was on it to my ph in Namibia.

Art, apology accepted.

I played with the scope more this morning with different lighting conditions (although still overcast) and there is definately an issue, but I'm convinced its the scope, not the lighting conditions. My son's BSA air rifle scope was better than the Minox in terms of eye box.

I contacted Cameraland and Minox and will be sending the scope back to Minox today for evaluation and will post back on the verdict. With all the rave reviews, I hopefully just have a lemon.

Ed

Ed, optically I really like the Minox 2-10 that I just received. I am impressed with the 2X end as well as the 10X end. I cannot find that the eyebox is that much smaller than a zeiss conquest when set on the same power.
Cheers

35fan,

The Minox arrived and I just signed for it a bit ago.

Unboxed it, took it outside, and.....

The flare up is horrible between 8x and 10x.
The eye box is also horrible.
The eye relief is better than my Leupold.

Totally unacceptable, it's getting boxed up and sent back.

It's nothing like my 3x9 and I wish I knew why?

Darn shame because it fit my Sako and extra low Talley's just perfect.

Well, that's bad news...

SU35,

There was another post where "yurotrash" had a similar issue with his 3-9 MINOX.

There were other posters that ordered the 2-10X, let's see if they chime in and have a similar issue.

So much for being the initial product testers!

Ed

His problem with eye postioning at 10x is mentioned at the top of this page, toward the bottom of his posting.-

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/4342543/2

Well, I am a bit perplexed... I keep having others look and we are not seeing the flare or the critical eye relief... There surely is a difference in eye relief at 10x, but horrible???

Eye relief is good at 10x but you do have to keep your eye focused perfectly centered.


I'm perplexed as you are by this. My 3x9 sold me on getting a 2-10

just got my 2-10 today,got it out of the box and took it outside to check things out.just holding by hand looking through it i didn't really notice flare on 10x but it wasn't real easy to see through either since it wasn't being held very steady.i mounted it in dnz medium mount and checked it out on the gun.i compared it to a new vx3 3.5-10 cds,the minox to me is easier to look through and function than the leupold,,,especially the power ring.the minox is harder to see through quickly at 10x than the vx3 but you see what your looking at clearer with the minox once you get a picture.4x,5x,6x really looks good through the minox, it is a bright day today so not sure what they will compare like in evening.maybe the minox will flare when the sun goes down but maybe not.i have a 13 yr old swarovski.3-9 and that flared one evening while hunting and i couldn't see through it on hardly any power no matter how hard i tried,the sun set must have been just right i guess.only thing i saw wrong with my scope for sure was the scope cap,,,,i unscrewed it and it came apart in 2 pieces i glued it back together,,,so its not a one piece cap,,,water could work between the 2 pieces i guess.i'm happy with the minox,,,,but i'm happy with my vx3 too.

I just mounted a ZA5 2-10 on a rifle. I have a couple of things that I have noticed that are troublesome. I find that no matter what eye relief or magnification I use I cannot see the edge of the glass clearly. The glass at the edge of the field of view is always out of focus. I compared this to a Bushnell 3200 and a Pentax scope and do not see a similar problem. It doesn't really affect aiming, since the center is clear, but it limits what can be seen in the field of view. Does this sound like I have a lemon?

The other issue falls under the heading of "too much of a good thing". I find that I cannot mount the scope far enough forward on my Savage rifle to get a comfortable eye relief when in a prone position. I have the rear ring as far back as it will go on the scope body and as far forward on the receiver as it will go. (Actually overhangs the receiver port slightly using Burris Weaver bases.) Inside of 4 inches the field of view tunnels quickly, but I can actually get a full field of view in the eyepiece at 7 or 8 inches (the image is small since the eyepiece is far away, but it fills the eyepiece).

it was nice and bright here when i looked through my scope,it might lose some sharpness on the outer edge,,,,but mine is quite clear.i played with the focus on it some at various power settings perfect focus on 2x wasn't perfect at 10x but it was close.i mounted it on a long action 700 with dead nutz mount,the front ring is about a quarter inch behind the scope bell.it mounted up in the rings about the same as a leupold does for me.

35fan,

Mine is on its way back for a refund. The clarity of my 3-9 minox as I stated before is not as clear as my conquest. I see amber color on the outer edge and it is annoying as heck! I am so use to clean and clear optics. Yesterday I went and looked through my friends leupy VXIII and it was much better then the minox. The leupy was as good as my zeiss conquest.
Disclaimer Note: this was a visual test done for myself but I am willing to share on 24hourcampfire in hopes of not getting bashed by the so optic gurus. I am an amateur hunter and I have no insturments to test the brightness or clarity. I have no time to use a visual chart to do a thorough test. This test was conduct using my eye sight. I am no way affiliate with Zeiss or Leupold.

I was able to check the scope this morning in outdoor light and noticed another issue: there is significant image distortion near the edges of the field of view. When panning across the landscape I could see distortion of images as they entered and exited the field of view. It's clear in the center, but it very distracting when panning. At this point, due to the dark halo and distortion at the edges of the image, I would rate the overall image quality below that of my $150 Pentax Gameseeker. ;-(

This was my first "high dollar" scope purchase. Trying to live up to that old saying of spending as much on your scope as you do the rifle. I am disappointed with the Minox and I am thinking of sending it back and getting a Zeiss Conquest. I would have gone with the Zeiss from the beginning based on reputation, but I like the 5X 2-10 power range of the Minox better than the 3X 3-9 range of the conquest. The bullet drop reticle also didn't carry a huge price penalty.

My Pentax scope is a 1.5-6x and I like it for deer hunting in Eastern Kansas. I once lost a deer on a jump shot because I couldn't find it in my scope at 10 yards (should have just clubbed it!). The 5-15x Bushnell I was using that day went to live on my CZ452 22LR after that, and I bought the Pentax. I thought my new Savage Accu-Wonder deserved a great scope so I bit the bullet and bought the Minox.

I could send this one back for a replacement and see if the next one lives up to the good reviews that I have read, but I hate to play scope-roulette. Maybe a 3-9x is good enough ...

Just mounted my Minox ZA3 No issues. Clear edge to edge, no discoloration. On par with the conquest, Happy!

i just came back from my friends house,,,compared the minox 2-10 to his 2 year old conquest 3.5-10.his conquest is just like new,,,just came back from zeiss service center,,,no majar issue for return,,was a scratched ocular lense and looked like they replaced it.both scopes looked alike as far as being clear,,,but both scopes set on 6x the conquest seemed more powerful than the minox,,,,almost 7x on the minox was like 6x on the zeiss.both the same on 10x,,,but the zeiss is easier to get a full field of view on 10x.the zeiss probably is a little better scope but not two hundred dollars better as long as the minox performs without breaking.i might not be the best judge on scopes,,,i've always been happy with leupold,,,,i just wanted to try something new and wanted the 2-10 power range.overall i'm happy with the minox,,,so far.i do feel bad for the guys that didn't get a good clear image with the minox.....mine is clear for sure.

ks shooter,

Welcome to the 'fire. Hope to either enlighten you or alienate you right away.

You brought up a point that perhaps you have not thought about. You said you didn't get on a deer because of too much magnification. You might try practicing with the scope set on its highest power almost all the time. but when you go hunting you put it on its lowest setting. It will seem like a wide screen TV.

Perhaps the reason you missed the opportunity on the deer is your scope is not set up perfectly for you. When you shoulder your rifle with you eyes closed and open them you shoud be looking right down the center of the scope.

Ringman,

I had a full field of view through my scope on that sad occasion - there just wasn't a deer in it! I only had a couple of seconds to try and spot him as he ran past. Between his running and my panning of the scope, we just never met


I looked at a Zeiss Conquest 3-9x40 today and decided that I'm going to send the Minox back to Midway and swap it for the Zeiss.

I realized that I don't really need the ballistic plex for hunting. I rarely take a shot at game beyond the point blank range of my rifle/ammo combo (about 250 yards). If I'm punching paper or taking that rare long shot on game, I can just dial the knobs. If Bambi is that far away, I probably won't be in a hurry. If he's moving, I won't be shooting.

Update: Wanted to provide an update from my initial assessment of the 2-10X Minox with which I started the thread. Sent the scope off to Minox for evaluation after I spoke with Cameraland and the possibility that it was defective. After some time I contacted Minox and spoke to the CS agent and he relayed to me the findings of the technician. The scope was operating within parameters, ie the eye box is very small at high power. I won't mention the number told to me of the eyebox, but smaller than Pee Wee Herman comes to mind. I thanked them and after recieving it back from Minox contacted Cameraland and shipped the scope back yesterday. Both Cameraland and Minox CS have been very good so far.

Ed

I looked at a minox a couple days ago, and the eye box complaint is a very valid one, I have never looked through a scope that had such an unforgiving eyebox, even at low power it was very critical. I was less than impressed.

yes, the eye box is my only complaint, still like the za5, gonna keep it, i think.

Conquest 3x9x40mm. Cheap, forgiving, clear, bright and mechanically accurate.

What was the question again?

More seriously, great thread gentlemen. Thanks for being guinea pigs and for the thorough review by committee. I have and like a Minox binoc, but it sounds like at least some of the scopes are not ready for prime time.

I can second that. The 3-9's are a decent scope, but that V10 was like looking through a paper towel tube.

the flare in the 2x10 at 8-10 was very bad, I gave up on it

Same with mine, no issues at all.