I grew up reading the OLD outdoor writers - Keith, O'Connor, Townsend, Trueblood and others - and in much of their writing, a sporterized 30-06 with a Lyman Alaskan 2 1/2X or a Weaver K4 scope was THE hot setup.

Of course, it had to have backup iron sights for when the scope failed - and it seemed everyone knew someone whose scope failed in some way during a critical phase of their hunt, especially those whippersnappers who dared to get a newfangled variable scope.

Anyway, I just cleaned out my gun closet and found three fixed 4X scopes - a Burris, whose matte black finish has gracefully aged to a dark gray, a gloss Leupold M8 4X28, whose turret caps are just starting to show a bit of the dark plum color old Leupys are known for, and a Bushnell Scopechief 4X with a post and fine crosshairs reticle, the body showing scars of many ham-handed attempts to mount it in ill-fitting rings.

Other than a single 30-06 with a fixed 6X, every other rifle I have is used either with iron sights (Springfield Trapdoor 45-70, Marlin 1894 .357 lever action, T/C Hawken 50 cal muzzleloader) or a variable scope.

Is there any hunting situation where the 4X reigns supreme?

I think it reigns supreme on a lightweight deer rifle.

Hell yeah....just a shame that more manufacturers don't make good ones. Apparently, there's more money to be made in high power variables.

Would like a gloss 4x Leupold on my 700 BDL 270.

Where this gun is used a 75 yard shot is a long one.

There is much more demand for variable scopes. with a variable you can use it on 4 power if you wish but I always use more power than 4

Hell yes it does in my opinion. Unfortunately variable power scopes are easier to find,so I have more of them than fixed powers. But I wish all my rifles were topped with 4x or 6x glass.

I have a bunch of 4X scopes on hunting rifles but I'm not a modern hunter. I don't ride an ATV, I often wear wool, I like to try and get under 300 yards, and I like bullets with lead in them. GD

This^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I have a 4X on a 760 in .35 rem.
Figure it a 150 yard and in rig.

The scope isn't perfect, but it aint bad, ever.
Could use less when things are close or moving, but it works.
Could use more when things are out yonder, but it works.

Won't ever have it at the wrong mag either.

It aint fancy, but then, neither am I.

Yes. I have a couple on rifles I use in the woods

A deer 300 yards away would be in real trouble. 4x, no problem.

I don't know your age but at 72 I can tell you that unless you don't shoot over about 50 yards 4x ain't cuttin' it
I have two fixed powers. one El Paso Made K-6 and one I bought new in 1966 for my then new .270 Winchester Model 70, a 4X Redfield. I still use both. The 4x is on a '94 AE .30-30, the K-6 isn't on anything at the moment but was on a Savage 110 7 Rem. Mag. I'm about to put it on a soon to be acquired Mod.721 Remington .30-06. It won't stay a .30-06 though. I'm planning on re-barreling it to .270 Winchester with a 1:8 twist. When I do that I'll probably find a good used 4-12 Zeiss Conquest. Of all the scopes I've handled in the last five years the Conquest is the clearest and brightest and most repeatable adjustment wise. I don't do a lot of knob cranking but I like the idea of being able to.

I'm 54, and my eyes aren't what they used to be.

Yup. Random rifles with calibers of lesser oompf than 300WM and all rifles with calibers above 300WM. That's how i'm rolling now for an all purpose set up. For the real thumpers a 2 1/2 x.

Out of the 10 hunting rifles 6 have fixed magnification scopes and 4 of them are 4x, one 6x, and one 3x.

Are you my long lost twin?

A 4 power sure has a place in my world... they will end up outlasting my usefulness.

me too!

I personally have little use for a fixed power 4x.
I do use several 1.1-4 straight tubed variable scopes though. These are some of my favorite scopes for larger bore rifles and AR type rifles.

No use for any fixed scope for me. I could maybe see using a 6x, but it would absolutely drive me nuts to not be able to turn that down to 2 or 3x when I wanted.

I have three, 4x scopes one mounted on a 12 Ga. slug shotgun M8 Leopold, and bolt. 308. Burris 4x. I have a weaver mico trac 4x waiting in the wings just in case. As I go up in caliber, magnification goes down. A very simple rule for me.

If they had more options for fixed 4x scopes nowadays i would definitely prefer to use those over the variable powers..i like to keep things simple

I am very fond of 4x scopes. Even with my 73 year old eyes and shaky old body I can shoot a 1" group using a 4x scope. A few months ago I was easily clanging a gong at 200 yards using a rifle with a 4x scope.

As much as I do like a simple 4x scope, you are right. A new VX2 in 2-7 is a nice trim scope, just as lightweight as a 4x and offers more flexibility, esp at the range.

I have one of those on a rifle...and I am constantly surprised...but seems like every time I have taken game with it, I look at the scope afterwards and notice I had it turned down to 2 power once again...

so "lack of magnification" didn't seem to handicap me much at all...and its not like I am Mr Eagle Eye...

I find a 2 x 7 is more useful for my needs than a 3 x 9.

IMO depends on what you're hunting and where. I like a 3-9x 40 as well as anyone. They're versatile and good for smaller targets at longer ranges in open country but I've shot my share of small game, varmints and deer & antelope out to a little over 300 paces with a 4x. For me it's always been a light weight, trouble free, set it and forget it type scope.

Got rid of my last one in 1969. Never looked back.

Hard to argue with this right here.^^^

I like low powered variables. The only time I turn them up is at the range for load testing and while trying for internet hero target pics.

If we were buying them the manufacturers would be producing them. Hunters voting with their wallets.

There's that logic thing again.

I still use fixed 3x, 4x and 6x scopes, mostly Leupold M8s. On a Savage 99 F or Husqvarna lightweight bolt an old long tube Leupold 4x28mm seems perfect to me. Anything 200 yds and under is easy money with those setups.

Vintage Leupold M8 gloss 4X (and 6X’s) are my all time favorite scopes and I have at least a dozen on various rifles. Classic scopes that to my eye look just as good on a pre64 M70 as they do on a Kimber Montana.

Never had a place in my hunting. Started out with 3x9 scopes and now most are 4x16

You would think that would be the case. So why did Leupold drop the VX2 2-7x33, probably their bread and butter scope?

I believe that most of what is offered, not only in scopes, is based more on "what we want to sell" than on "what the buying public wants".

Love the fixed power never have to think about it just point and shoot

4X16 is my favorite

I highly doubt that was their bread and butter scope.

I’ve got one on my wife’s deer hunting shotgun. I was sighing it in one day a the range, and this young guy came over and said boy the scope looks like it was blued. I said that’s cause it is. An old Weaver 4power. Still works good!

Replaced by VX Freedom 2-7X.
$199 shipped from Doug.

I think a lot of demand these days is for higher and higher power variables. Lots of hunters are in to the idea of pre idiom rifles and long range hunting.

I say the idea because, for many hunters, they’re still hunting the same areas where realistic game sighting will dictate short range shots.

In today’s market, if the fixed power scope is a dinosaur the 2-7 may be a dodo.

"Does the 4X scope still have a place in the modern hunters lineup?"

Yup, it sure does, for me anyway. In fact I prefer a straight fixed 4X for about 80% of the rifles I want to put a scope on.
I have compromised with variable scopes on a few of my rifles just because I could not find a good fixed 4. Most would think that's backwards, but from my 1/2 century of shooting and hunting, I have found that higher magnification and larger heavier scoped are a hindrance more then a help. I have a few 2X-7Xs and a few 3X-9X scopes, but I leave them set on low power at all times and it's a very rare shot I make with them where I dial them up.

If I could work my will I would have a company make some super clear bomb-proof fixed scopes and I woudl pribably chanc=ge out the variables I have on nearly every rifle I own, I would leave a 2X-7X on one of my AR-15s and also my 4X-12X on my 222.
ALL the rest of my rifles would wear fixed 3X or 4X scopes, except my 404, which would have a fixed 2X on it, if I could buy what I wanted.

This is probably my favorite rifle. M70 pre 64 standard grade .30-06 that's had the stock refinished. Lately it's all I shoot and hunt with (pigs and axis deer in TX). Scope is a Lyman 4X All American Permacenter duplex reticle. No real reason to put anything else on; I have a spare just like it in reserve. I haven't felt the need to upgrade in either glass quality or power.
Bob

I just bought an old Remington 721 chambered in .30-06 with a 4X Bausch and Lomb. It's a sweetie, I'm keeping that scope on it.

NOPE, has zero appeal to me. only fixed power scope I own is a 40X on my BR gun

Not for me. I want more versatility on top of my main hunting rifles.
They need to perform without compromise in close black timber in poor light and wide open mountain tops or prairies, and everything in between.
I use a 3-15x w/ an illuminated dot reticle on them.
That's what works best for my use.
Even have a 3-9x on my 10-22.

I'm 70. Last year I changed this FX II 4X33 on this 257 Roberts to a VX 2 2-7X33 LRD. Which I removed from my 308, which I replaced with a VX 3i 3.5-10X40. Tough getting old!

4X worked for many years. Still does for young eyes. Was a good fit for this little 257.

I run a weaver 4x on my muzzleloader and it’s perfect in the woods for that application. The one thing I really like about 4x scopes is the eye relief and clarity are stellar however in most of my rifle applications I prefer a variable

Yes, when you only own one centerfire rifle.

A fixed 4x scope is like a 30-06—never wrong but rarely the exact right thing. Combine them and you get the ultimate compromise rig. Back when the writers you mentioned were working, few people ever owned more than one centerfire rifle, which is why they recommended that combination. But if you read more closely, those same writers liked a 270 or a fast 7 with 6x for antelope or open country shooting, and a bigger bore with lower magnification for brush hunting.

The rule of thumb in those days was 100 yards of range for each 1x of magnification. That’s still valid. I can get hits on steel quickly out to 350-ish yards with 4x on a 308 or 30-06. That’s double the range that I want to shoot and triple the range of the longest shot on game I’ve had in the last 20 years, so I don’t see 400 as a limitation. 4x is also fast in dense brush, plus I can get hits earlier in the morning and later in the evening than with iron sights.

I’ve owned and tested about a dozen variables in the last few years, but I hunt with a 4x.

A few years ago, I was hunting elk with a guy who was very proud of his new stainless/synthetic 300, new high-end scope, alpha binos, European boots, etc., etc., etc. The day before the opener we were checking zeros and the guide reminded us to keep our scopes on the lowest setting in case we jumped a bull up close—the classic “a guy here last year blew a close shot because his scope was on 9x” line of reasoning.

I said, “That will never happen to me...”

Gear Queer scowled. “Why not?”

When I said, “Because I’m using a fixed 4,” he looked at me like I had just sprouted a second head.

I tagged out before he did. My shot was closer and my bull was bigger, but either rifle would have been just fine for either bull.

For me, the perfect scope would be a fixed 4x with an illuminated reticle.


Okie John

A four power is all I would need because my max shooting range limit is 300 yards.

The 4-X would be the cat’s meow!

Here's a nice little 4x. M8 Leupold matte. Might use it on my 300H&H.

4X compact

I like em

Want another one if I find a #1A w nice wood in .243 win

The first compact 4X I got off Ballentines, LNIB.........it's on an 870 deer gun.
Killed a fair number with it and my hunting buddy bought the package off me.
He's filled his freezer a lot with it.

I shoot both eyes open on everything so even up close and fast a 4x is doable.
Yeah I like a 1.5x better when things get zippy, but a 4x works and some guns just look right with a fixed power.

Whats the objective diameter?

.308 Marlin, Leupold 4X FX II gloss. Perfect fit for the .300 Savage ballistics of the .308 Marlin.
Bob

Objective dia on mine?

Proly 28 ......its an older M8 compact.
Both of the ones I've had were of that type.

The older versions were a bit gangly.

IMHO the reg 4x w 33mm obj is a nicer looking scope.

I didn't mind the longer reg M8, but the compact looks a little better on some rigs
(this a clean reg M8 I picked up for $125 in great shape).
Now folks want twice that on the big auction site.
Ridiculous.

Leaning hard towards a 4x Leupold for my new to me BDL 270.

I have a '70 fingergroove 10/22 that would look good w an old M8 on it

I'm just a backyard deer hunter, so even an old M8 works during any legal light.
Am set and forget too.
Hell its hard to find a place to rip a groundhog to 300 around here anymore.
Really don't need anything fancy on any rig.

Will say that a 1 or 2X I do like better on movers close.
I suppose if I get a Sav 99 featherweight in .300 Sav I might slap a 2.5X or 3X on it.

Same here. A 30-40 yard shot is a long one.

Looks like my current deer spot

My old place had a mature oak woods w some roll, I blasted stuff out to 150 there, scoped and irons.
The fields were CRP and longest was still under 200.

4x on a Knight Wolverine was cheatin LOL
I felt bad after blasting a few and went back to sidehammer and irons.

Now I'm too cranky to mess w BP and too blind to run irons.

Yes if your 18, no if your 60.

Astigmatism has pretty much chased me out of the iron sight business. A low power scope is the bomb.

kwg

No the 4x is a dinosaur on a serious hunting rifle. A simple 3-9 has way more utility & for under $200 lifetime warranty. Even the close up hunters might want extra magnification to determine fork/spike/doe on small antlers.

Once a year trip to more open country doesn’t require a scope change, Eve sighting in is simpler & better with the variable.

Kids 22 is the only real use based on simplicity.

LOL ...... I didn't realize that when I've used them in the past, I wasn't using a serious hunting rifle.

Same here, I have a couple very serious hunting rifles that wear 4x scopes. I have never been in a situation where I felt the 4x lacking, having made several successful shots around 400 yards with them. Part of this, for me, is simply an unwillingness to take more risk of longer range shots at game. This is about hunting, and if it’s much beyond 400 yards, I get closer or don’t shoot. Even then, while more magnification might be comfortable, it’s not critical.

[quote=GF1]Same here, I have a couple very serious hunting rifles that wear 4x scopes. I have never been in a situation where I felt the 4x lacking, having made several successful shots around 400 yards with them. Part of this, for me, is simply an unwillingness to take more risk of longer range shots at game. This is about hunting, and if it’s yards, I get closer or don’t shoot. Even then, while more magnification might be comfortable, it’s not critical. [/quot

At sensible, ethical hunting ranges the 4X is still a very viable scope. In fact, I'm now thinking having a max of 4X, maybe a 6X, would limit people from attempting ridiculous, unethically long shots when they don't have the experience or the equipment to pull it off. Even if I have those things necessary to make such shots I still limit my maximum shot range to no more than 500 and usually 350-400 yards, until they come up with the technology where you're scope will read the wind speed and direction at target. At those ranges a 4X in the hands of a rifleman with decent eyes can pull that off.

I just acquired yet another fixed four power this weekend. I picked up a rifle I had on layaway at the local pawn shop. When I put the rifle on layaway I didn't know what the brand of scope was or care because so many have cheapo scopes their owners slap on them before pawning just to see if it will increase the value given by the pawn shop. Many pawn shops don't seem to know the difference in a bubble wrapped Simmons from Wally World and a Schmidt Und Bender. Anyway, when I picked it up and took it home upon closer inspection I realized it was Bausch and Lomb Balfor B, which is a fixed 4X 32 MM and a very clear and solid scope made in the 90s in Japan. Most all scopes made in Japan back then were of quality. Anyway, I'm very happy with the acquisition and will leave it in place until I do something with the gun which could be a couple years. I'm looking forward to taking a hog or deer with it. Then, depending on what I do with this Remington 721, I'll decide whether to put a higher power or variable scope on it and maybe move this fine 4X to a lever gun.

One good thing about those old M8s is that given their extra length they fit better on some longer actions. Many current scopes are quite short and depending on ring spacing they may not fit well. That #1 is a good example of this.


Here's a (shoulda kept) FN-98 in factory chambered 300H&H that is topped with a M8.

The M8 4x that came on my ‘66 Savage 99 .308 sure has a place. Traded for this rifle a couple years ago. Never used a fixed power before. Was a little concerned about it til I got it out in the woods. Yeah, that M8 is staying on it. And if it crapped the bed on me, I might even hit the used market to replace it with another. If 4X is too much, you gotta love those Weaver tip-off mounts! Never had one of those either. To my amazement, it does indeed hold zero. I’m under fifty years old.

Czech10/22: No.
I can foresee NO Rifle or Hunting situation where I want to "limit" myself to a fixed 4 power scope on said Rifles or said Hunts and haven't for MANY decades!
I am NOT saying a straight 4 power scope can't do some things - I am saying there are so many scope options out there that will perform so much better in virtually any instance I have ever had, in 60+ years now of Varmint and Big Game Hunting.
Technology and reliability of variable power scopes have rendered the straight 4 power scope at worst "obsolete" and at best a "third rate" option.
First scope on my first scoped Hunting Rifle was a 4 power - that was well over half a century ago - haven't shopped for a "straight 4 power scope" for one of my Rifles/uses in the last 40+ years.
Ones monies can be MUCH better spent/invested in other options rather than a straight 4 power scope.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

I have 1 fx-i rimfire, 2 fx-ii 4x33 and 3fx-ii 6x36.
They are the only scopes I have and I don't plan on getting anything else.
I have the 4x's mounted to a Ruger M77/22, a M77/22wmr and a M77/44.
I have 1 6x36 on a Hawkeye in 308win.
The other 2 6x36 are spares for now.
They are my preference because of their compact size, and the 4 and 6 power magnifications work good for me.
I was saddened to here that Leupold has discontinued the 4x33.

That's because the variables of that era were not reliable as most (better ones) are today.
If they'd had what we've had for the last 20-30 years, they'd have used them...........at least a good number of them would have.



In my opinion, no.............if using something like a 45-70, then I'd just as soon have a 2 1/2x & that's exactly what rode mine for most of the time when it was getting a lot of use.

If I want a fixed power scope for needs more than the 2 1/2x will satisfy, then I will choose a 6x; 90% of my hunting with anything else is, & has been done, with a 2x7 or a 2 1/2-8, & more recently, 3-10's................varmint rifles, excluded, which get more magnification.

Anyone that really thinks they can be more precise with low mags than higher mags at yardages exceeding 100, is either a very superior shooter with amazing eyes, has never shot higher mag scopes or is just BS'ing.....................largely weighted to the latter two.

JMHO, JMMV

MM

I have an FX 4x33 on my No.1S 9.3x62. That rifle is a 'stalk in close' rifle and the 4x is perfect I think.

AGREED X2> I am 66 years old i need more scope power now days

Just posted a pic of my new to me 270 Ti in the Image Gallery, scoped it with a 1981 4X M8. Also have a 700 Classic 270 topped with a 4X M8 that is the only gun I’ve used in the last 40 years to chase NY and PA bucks.
Wouldn’t have had it any other way.

Disagree if ones eyes are healthy and they have the correct prescription....Lots of over 60 YO have 20/20, and if you do then 4x has little to do with age....

Agreed Harry, 4X scopes still work perfectly for this soon to be 70 year old.

I am with Varmint Guy...

^ this

I have a number of 4x scopes. Several are on .22 rifles. I have one that is a dedicated travel backup scope for a couple of big bores; .375 and .416. I also have a 6x that is a travel backup for 6.5 and 7mm high velocity's. I have never had to use the backup scopes but they are there in case the need arises. Light, simple, and dependable.

YMMV

Sorry to ruffle feathers of the existing 4x crowd. I’ve certainly killed deer with iron sights & my variable set on 4 power or under so no doubt 4x works. But I do think as a new purchase they are still in the Tyrannosaurus category. They just have so few advantages vs a variable - even the Vari-XIII 1.75-6x previously on my 375H&H is handier on the starter 22 bolt action I use to start kids than a fixed 4x.

I don’t think the Hubble telescope on a hunting rifle makes much sense either particularly with a lower end higher than 4 power for quick close opportunities. Worked with a first time hunter this weekend he showed up with a 6-18 power Vortex on his new Mossberg 6.5 Creedmoor for a pig hunt on his bosses ranch. He did what guys not raised in hunting families do and asked friends & search the internet for reviews. Not everyone has 30+ years of fondness for the old TRex 4x.

I like all kinds of scopes as long as they have decent eye relief characteristics. What I don't get, barring eyesight problems, is the idea that it takes a lot of magnification to make good hits on deer sized game out to 300 yards or so.

One of the really important questions of modern hunting....

Sounds like your awareness level has been raised

MD, how do you really feel about 4X scopes?

I’ve actually been backing off 4x and mounting Leupold 2.5’s and Kill more game than many here combined on a regular basis. Granted most of my shots are within 125 yards, but the only thing that crosses my mind when I throw the scope up is putting that crosshair on the impact point. Magnification NEVER enters my mind.

The more I use a 2.5x the more I use a 2.5x.

Actually, the 3X Leupold is growing on me lately...with a heavy duplex reticle.
Bob

I have that too. The weirdest thing to me is how I only sight on paper at 25 yards on a dot I create with a sharpie and they hit the same hole, and how accurate the low power is on actual game animals at distance. My entrance wound is literally where I put the crosshairs each time. I can’t hardly see the same dot at 50 yards on paper With the 2,5x. I use a 1.5” MPBR on all of my rifles regardless of caliber and magnification.

They're all I currently use.

Someone said “you can’t hit what you can’t see”. I guess the 4X just ain’t enough for some.

I don’t consider a shot over forty yards actually hunting. Yes, I take longer shots but it just doesn’t jazz me up like a buck busting out of the brush at 5 yards.

90+% of my hunting is done with 2 rifles. 8x57is custom VZ-24 with a 4x32 Meopta Artemis(upgraded from 4x38 Weaver) and a 10/22 carbine with a 4x38 Weaver. I currently own 4x optics by Meopta, Weaver and Hawke.

I only own 2 variable optics, 1 USA made, GLOSS Burris FFII 3-9x40(wanted a gloss optic for my .300 Win Mag, and got a great deal on it) and 1 3-9x42 Meopta Meopro($70 in the Cabelas Bargain Cave) on a M70 Fwt 270(had this for a couple years now, still haven't fired it.)

I figure if I can't see and aim with a 4x, I shouldn't be shooting at it.

Is there any hunting situation where the 4X reigns supreme?


Yes. All.

No none at all

I have been hunting since about 1964. I have used MANY high powdered scopes and also about 6 or 7 Fixed power scopes. So to answer the question "Is there any hunting situation where the 4X reigns supreme?"
Between Dr Death and jwp475 above, DrDeath is more correct.
I don't say "All" because for paper competitions and for prairie dog shooting I find high magnification helpful or even vital on P.Dogs past about 300 yards.

But in my experience for ALL big game hunting in all countries and all states at all ethical ranges the fixed 4X is better and for about 1/3 of those a fixed 3X or maybe even a 2X would be better. And I have hundreds of kills with both higher powered scopes and also fixed power scopes of 4X and less. So I am not guessing here. Funny thing is that about 1/2 of the scoped rifles in my safe have 2X -7X or 3X-9X scopes on them but I don't think any of them have been taken off their lower settings in at least 8 years. I do have 2 rifles with 1X to 4X scopes on them and I leave them set at 3X And I have killed game with those rifles and scopes set at low power from Ranges of 1 yard all the way out past 450 MANY times. I shoot my 2X scout scoped 30-06 to 500 on targets quite often, and my 4X scope on one of my 270s I fire at 1200 yards several times a year and do very well with it too. I don't always hit my targets (12" gong) with the 270 at 800-1200, but I hit more then I miss. I do it with my 300 mag too, with it's 2X-7X, and I leave it on 4X. You see, making the target look larger doesn't actually make it larger. Magnifying the target doesn't make a bullet grow in diameter either.

Many if not most of those that say the variable is "better" are just guessing, and have not go the years and the kills behind them to have a valid opinion based on 1st hand knowledge.

How is the 4X better? I can set a variable on the most desirable power for the situation.

I've been hunting at least as long as you and I've yet to find a fixed power scooe more desirable than a variable.

As to King game I've killed a lot with irons and continue to fo so but they are not superior to a scope

Variables turn supreme

If you hunt forests where visibility is less than 100 yards and every deer is legal certainly 4x works. If you hunt mountains & open country where you might not be able to get within 300 yards of an animal and there are antler restrictions 4x doesn’t cut it for most people. When a 4th point or a 6” brow tine means 300 lbs of elk in the freezer & the lack of either means an expensive ticket. Certainly binoculars or spotting scope can tell but not nearly as quickly as - “it’s legal Bang.”

Hitting the target may not be the only challenge. I’ve shot elk from 11-550 yards and one fixed magnification isn’t perfect for either.

Wait a minute, are you admitting to using your scope rather than a binocular or spotting scope to verify something? Beware, there are those preparing the stake and stacking bundles of branches at its foot even now.

I've been hunting almost as long as you, and have been fortunate enough to hunt in many places for many types of game. I'll take the variable every time, and like many others here, have the kills and experience to not be guessing. I can turn my variable up if I feel the need, which I’ve done on many occasions. There’s not much that can’t be done with a 4x, but there’s not much that can’t be done better with a variable, IMO.

I didn’t start hunting until 1969 so behind some here but I’ve hunted primarily in the local mountains & those in Colorado & Utah. Not many whitetail woods & even the thick stuff has cross canyon openings. So longer distance shots are common. My grandfather hunted deer with a semi-auto 30-06 & variable scope for fast follow up & ability to reach out if needed.

If you hunt extremely game rich areas with long seasons you don’t need to maximize your opportunities. Hunting public land elk in NW Colorado isn’t shy of animals but opportunities may be few & far between. I’m not willing to waste one with an underpowered scope & rifle combination. If 60 yards is your ballpark by all means low power is adequate. Of course my variable scopes for hunting start mostly at 3 power so that range is covered too.

To answer what I consider a ligament question "How is the 4X better? " So I'll answer in full respect and with my set of fact that leads be to this conclusion.

How's it better? In a few ways. Not any being universal but all just as ligament as the question asked.

#1 Is that field of view and light gathering are better from a fixed low powered scope then they are from a higher magnification. For game hunting I have found clarity and field of view beat larger images every time if any quickness is needed for a shot.
So the counter would be that "a variable can be set at lower power". Very true and that's exactly what I do, and what I said I do in the post above. But being that I shoot them every time on the lower power for hunting (including my longer shots-- because I can see better due to the scope allowance of more light at lower power) it makes me ask the question why I would spend a lot more money on a feature I have found to be close to useless over the last 50+ years? So for real world use they are better due to cost

#2 I own variables and I set them more/less permanently on the lower powers making them bulkier and/or heavier then a fixed power of the same magnification. So better in their size and weight.

#3 in all my years as a shooter, hunter, guide and firearms instructor I have never had to return a well made fixed power scope in for service due to it breaking something inside. I have had to have 5 of my own scoped repaired in my life and all of them were variables. These include 2 Leupolds, one Schmidt and Bender, one Burris and one Pentax. As a gun professional (gunsmith) I have also done it a few dozen times for customers and i know of at least as many that the owners did themselves and again ALL of the were variables. So I think I am safe to say for the top tier of reliability the fixed scope beats the variables. Better for reliability.

Now as I said I still own several rifles with variables on them, so I am not "against them" but if I were able to "write my own script" I would have 1 to 5X on 2 of my semi-autos and 100% of the rest of my guns for hunting big game would have good quality fixed scopes on them At this point of my life I wish every single rifle I had except my 6.8 SPC AR15 and my 5.56 AR 15 would have fixed scopes. My 2 ARs would have 1X to 5X scopes on them.

So "4X" is not as much an issue as the difference between a variable and a fixed, be it 2X 3X 4X or 6X.

To close I would point out that in a 1/4 mile run, if all runners were to cross the finish line in the span of 6 seconds the one that crossed last is "the slowest" and the one who crosses 1st is the fastest..... but the winner didn't make the losers slow. Same with fixed vs variable in my book. I am not someone that would refuse use and own a variable, but if I could, I would have nearly all fixed scopes. As it turned out many of my scopes are variables, but using them along with using fixed ones for over 1/2 a century is the REASON I am convinced the fixed scopes are indeed better for 99% of the real world shooting and hunting.
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better? No. Just consistently a bit better for my uses anyway.

I kind of felt that the question was tendon.

Fixed scopes above the rim fire junk category are more reliable based on fewer points of failure. A 2000’s Crown Victoria is about as reliable a passenger vehicle produced - that doesn’t mean that I want to drive that particular Car or that it is the best tool for the job based on its limitations of poor fuel economy & Lack of off road capabilities. It does keep on going as police car’s & taxis so hard to complain but limited.

What exactly do you mean by light gathering being better for a fixed low power scope? Same for "the scope allowance of more light at low power"?

In theory, light transmission is better for a fixed power, at the same power level, but the reality is, there isn't much difference. In fact, the high dollar variables might get better coatings and do even better. Every scope I have lets me see better, in low light conditions, than I can with the naked eye so I don't worry much about this.
I feel confident that I can hit what I want, out to 400 yds, with a 4X scope. If I see good ram at 500, I'll either get closer or I won't get that ram today.
I have to say, that Model 70 with the Lyman All-American, shown earlier in the thread; what a nice looking outfit. That is one reason I like the classic 4 powers, they are nice looking scopes. Scopes which a big and bulky, with prominent adjustment turrets and accented graphics, leave me cold. As I said before, I'm not a modern hunter. GD

Fixed power scopes aren't popular

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No argument there.





But neither is truth these days.

Always had a thing for the classic ‘look’ of a fixed power scope.

I have a few fixed 4x scopes one on my .30-30 and one on my ar.. While I respect szihn's experience, my main hunting rifles have scopes from 2- 14 power.. Some special longer range rifles go up to 20.. But for my main one I have them set on the highest power .. I leave it there unless I know I am getting a close moving shot.. My cousin told me 60 years ago, if I bought a 2.5-8 B & L scope for my .30-06, I would use it on 8x most of the time.. He was right.. I remember a deer shot in the thick brush in Pa. when I was about 20.. I was putting on a drive the last day for friends, when we jumped a group of deer in a crab apple thicket.. My pal had a 94 32 spl.. I had the old 06 with the scope at 8x.. He could see the deer flicking thorough the brush, but by the time he got thing lined up, they were gone.. As they headed my way I jumped up on a little stump.. As the first one crossed the opening in front of me , maybe 50 yards I got on that spot.. When the next one hit it I fired and broke its neck.. My pals had venison due to the scope...

Years later I went to Africa, and took my .375 H & H with a 6x because I didn't have the 4x or 3x everyone said was perfect.. I killed one waterbuck with it and then used my .300 with the 4-12.. Ranges weren't long, but the 12 x let me find a hole to shoot through in the heavy brush.. My .375 has a 3-9 on it today.. Now some folks set their scopes at 4 x and never change.. That is fine, but how do they know what can be done with a higher power scope if they never use it... I will take a variable every time...

I have some variables from back when I thought I needed one for here in Pa, or bought for a good price....then I found out I didn’t....Then there are some highly respected hunters that post on here that say they find them more than adequate for most situations...so my answer is yes....

A fixed power scope has a classic look

Sundial or Seiko?

I'll take the sundial!

g

If you need more than 4x you are sniping not “hunting”.

I just put a Leupold 4x on my pre 64 338 win mag. Mounted nice and low, fits perfectly.

Plan on using it this year for whitetail.

I have only ten scoped rifles. Three each are variable, 4X, and 6X, and one is 3X. Of the three I actually use for hunting the is one 3-9 x 40, one 6x42, one 4x33. In my hunting I don't really notice a difference between 4X and 6X, so claiming a 4X reigns supreme isn't something I'm going to do. The 4X I used for hunting is just a good scope regardless of power.

More customer to be had at least.

Sad, but true.

That's the chief advantage in my mind. One less thing to think about.

What I question these days is how many scope buyers are actually hunters. It seems like a lower percentage than it used to be.

Me also. Their fixed scopes were their only products I was interested in.

Don't tell anybody, but I have one on a Savage Model 99 in .243. It was the only scope I had, that had the correct eye relief for the rifle, and I put it on there until something better came along. After I used it, I found out it was just fine in the KY woods. If I can hit a squirrel head sized target at 100 yards regularly, why do I need anything better? I can hear the scoffing from here.

I have one of those on my 444. I'm dumping the rifle because Hornady discontinued the 265 gr. FP, but keeping the scope.

This is my principal objection to all APR.

When did that happen, the most recent version is still in production ain’t it?

Added:

I use the SuperPer right now but I do see they discontinued the projectiles, wonder why?

This is the best post on this thread.

There is only this:

Hunting rifles Leupold 2.5x, 4x, 6x

AR’s & Crossbows...ACOGs

You rapscallion game snipers and paper shooters can have the other crap but if you buy Chinese crap you should rot in Hell.

Does Howdy Doody have wooden balls?