Our local club has a bang and clang and you have to use cast bullets. A lot of guys are using 30-06. I don’t plan on casting bullets just like know of a good source to buy some good cast bullets. I guess some use gas check others don’t. Max velocity is 1600 FPS as well. So if any of you have a load you like to share that be great too.

You wanna run 1600fps you better have gas checked ones.

Thanks i guess..

Can't help with a source for store-bought cast bullets, been making my own since LBJ was president and never bought a single one. I will second the suggestion re: gas checks on stuff you're going to run at 1600 fps. Plain base .30 bullets start having issues with leading past 1400 fps or thereabouts, depending on a lot of conditions. If the distances are short, then low-vel plain base loads can do just fine. Longer distances almost demand more velocity unless you have tons of elevation adjustment at your disposal. Personally, I would cut to the chase and go with gas checked bullets.

I betcha Google-fu will locate suppliers.

Get thee a Lyman cast bullet manual too, if this is your first rodeo. Any of them published over the last 50 years will suffice as an intro.

Good luck! I wish our club had a "bang-and-clang" cast bullet match.

Save yourself a lot of grief and grab a neck expander/mouth flaring die too, sized to fit the bullet you use (ie: .309 for .310 diameter bullets, .310 for .311's, etc.) Lyman and RCBS make good ones, as do others I'm sure. I'm partial to the RCBS, but that's personal preference.

Squeezing a typically oversized .30 lead bullet (sized to fit your throat) into a case prepped for .308 jacketed bullets does two things: it'll like as not further reduce the diameter of the bullet (brass is harder than lead), and will likely shave lead off the bullet too (hence the mouth flaring aspect of the above mentioned dies).

I've had no experience with commercial cast .30 caliber bullets, but I've cast my own for many years using a variety of designs ranging in weight from about 160 grains up to 210. My favorite is the Lyman gas checked #314299 (about 200 grains) cast of wheelweight alloy loaded to around 1650 fps.

With .308s, .30-06s, and most other .30 calibers, I've found best accuracy is almost always with a .310" or .311 bullet, but sometimes .309" will work. A "fat" nose will generally provide better accuracy than a minimal one. For best accuracy, seat bullets where they very slightly engrave, not enough to pull the bullet from the case when you extract a loaded round, just enough to make contact with the lands.

If possible from a commercial caster, buy samples of several bullets and try them. I think you'll find best accuracy with heavy bullets, but there are no firm rules with cast bullets.Get a Lyman book that has cast load data. Good luck-

79s didn't have much time this morning to post, so I just tried to stop you from wasting time with a plain base bullets, Get a copy of the NRA's cast bullet manual it has the info you'll need to flatten your curve. Lymans 311141 is a fn gc bullet for the 30-30 yet they shoot fine in my 30-06's more traditional 06 bullets were the 311291 and 311299 molds both rn gas checked. Hornady gas checks and good lube. Also get Lymans cast bullet hanbdbook. gnnoah also hit the bullseye on your need for a lyman "M" die for seating a cast bullet with out problems. MB

Thanks guys, I been searching for cast bullets for sale online and seems a lot are out of stock. Like magnum bob said I was going to try and find bullets with gas checks. As of now it looks like I might be getting into cast bullet making lol.

Thanks for the info, I might just buy molds and give it a go. Far as bullet sizer die are the lee bullet sizer dies worth a crap?

lee 150gr flat nose lee 390 sizer to set the gc.the tumble lube will come with the lee sizer. your in the game

Yes they're ok. Slow though, because you have to lube separately. Not a big deal. I don't like the tumble lube at velocities over plain base velocity levels. YMMV. You can stand the bullets in a shallow tray, pour molten lube around them, and remove them cookie cutter- style when cooled. Another Google/YouTube deal for how-to demonstrations.

gnoahhh i do not under stand dose the smaller cal lead more than a larger one with the tumble lube ? pm me if you want just looking for knowledge at your convenience if you want thank you

You can find 30 cal bullets online. Easy to find a coated 170gr 30-30 style bullet but try to get it sized to a minimum of .310 depending on your barrel. If they have a .312 you can size it smaller with the Lee dies or use it as is. The Lee die is excellent for coated bullets...much faster than a lubrisizer. I haven't pulled the handle on mine for over 20 years.

Coated bullets do not need a gas check and will shoot fine with zero leading well past 1600fps. Even bullets that were designed for a gas check with no GC that I powder coat at 2500fps and no leading. Gas checks do help with accuracy, but sub 2" groups at 100yds without a GC are mostly good enough.

Coating is cleaner and eliminates so many issues with cast lead that since I started coating in the 80s I don't shoot much lubed lead anymore.

That match sounds like fun....shooting cast lead in a '06 is fun regardless... but I started when I was 12 so I am biased.

In a word, no. But there's so much to take into consideration on this topic that'll take us beyond the scope of the OP's quest to break into the cast shooting game as easily/cheaply as he can. Tumble lube runs out of steam, so to speak, long before the elasticity boundaries of a given lead alloy are breached.

The whole topic of PC'ed bullets versus traditionally lubed bullets has been chewed over ad infinitum all over the internet. Adherents in both camps have pluses and minuses on their side. It boils down to individual goals/end uses/philosophies. On a personal level, there's so much I have yet to explore in the world of traditional lubed bullets that I fear I'll run out of time before scratching all those itches let alone add a whole 'nother dimension to it all by adding PC'ing to the mix. Besides, I don't mind the mess (what mess?) and prefer to not accept lessened accuracy (such as that may be).

I wonder how many here are CBA members and are following some groundbreaking experiments by a member, conducted with no lube or PC at all. Kind of eye opening and certainly food for thought- little or no leading with decent accuracy. Calls up the old debate over what really is the function of lube/coating on a bullet.

Now if y'all will excuse me, I need to get back to loading a sack full of .22 K-Hornets with (un-PC'ed) cast bullets for my first range session this weekend since undergoing house arrest two months ago! Lyman 225438's at 1600 fps. If time permits I have an accumulation of .30-06's to put through my Springfield M1903A1 National Match too. NOE 309-169 (Elco) spitzers (NRA formula lube) over 20 grains SR-4759- real x-ring killers- and 180 RN's out of an ancient NEI mold + 18 grains SR-4759, 1400 fps or thereabouts and the bane of paper targets across the land!

Thanks for that info acme bullets has 155 that are coated with HI-tek coating..

So, how did Mr K do?

Mr. Killer Hornet will crack tomorrow. Wind like a banshee today.

Best of luck, will await the report.

https://www.montanabulletworks.com/product/308-rcbs-82020-180gr-sp-gc/

No joy in Mudville. The loads wouldn't group better than 1" at 50 yards. I was using a stiff load of 4759. Methinks dropping back to Unique or Bullseye (for a good swift kick in the bullet's pants) is where I need to just stay.

Mind you, 1" at 50 yards is certainly useful squirrel hunting accuracy but I think Mr. Kilbourn would encourage more accuracy out of the rifle he built. Jacketed stuff certainly performs better than twice as well as that.

Well, every path has some turns. I don’t recall ever trying 4759 in a Hornet. 4227, 2400 and Li’l Gun mostly. Good luck regardless. I’m fairly sure you will figure it out. What alloy were you using?

Quality stuff from MBW

COWW's + a pinch of tin. BHN 12. 1-25 or 1-30 next time, plus lower velocity.

Was using 50/50 wheel weights and Lino on a case forming exercise in a Hornet years ago, same mound. Don’t recall how it shot but they were full power loads. No leading, hit the paper generally where I wanted.

Your approach might be the trick.

I ordered some Lyman 311041, 173gr, FN-GC from Montana bullet works. They are sized .310 like you all suggested. Hopefully they ship soon.

I looked at those but they were sold out.

I got the bullets yesterday they look great now time to find a decent load for this bang and clang

3gr of Red Dot and the coated 225415 is my K Hornet's jam.

Thanks, Dinny

Shot them today, with 20.0gr 20.5 and 21.0 of 2400. 20.0gr produced a pattern lol, 20.5 was a little Better. 21.0 was a tad better. I was using WLR primers. Do you all have any powder recommendations?

79S, based on your charges, I'm thinking that was for the .30-06? If the groups were that bad, first thing I'd look at is the size relative to the bore. Barring that, I've had very good luck with 5744 and IMR 4198 in .30-06. Used to have a match load for my Springfield that used 5744 and the RCBS 180 gr. FN sized to .310. Shot better than I could, and was 1 MOA capable. will look it up if you are interested.

Old70

If you could that be great. Yes this is for an 06 and The bullets I got are sized .310, was reading an article last night and they talked about using 5744..

Try 24.5 gr. of 5744 or 26.0 gr. of IMR 4198. I used Rem 9 1/2 primers.

Velocity may be a little over 1600, but you’ll be close

Old70

What diameter are the bullets, and what diameter is your throat?

I won't comment on the powder charges other than to say they sound right in the ball park. The Lyman manual quotes a max of 27 grains 2400 with that bullet (2140fps), so it would seem you could ramp up the charges some more since you seem to be experiencing a trend toward better accuracy with each higher step in velocity.

My powder of choice for this work is 4759, but that's moot because it is no longer in production.

Bullet diameter is .310 far as throat I’m assuming you mean my oal? I got my data from Lyman at one time 20.0 of 2400 was their accuracy powder. But I will say this I cannot seat To the recommended OAL of 2.968.

How well does that .310 bullet fit inside fired brass from that chamber? That will help you determine the best diameter for the throat. In my experience the throat is what matters most. If they don't fit the throat at a usual cartridge length then that throws off all powder charge recommendations and could be why accuracy is a foul.

Thanks, Dinny

That short stretch of "no man's land" between the mouth of the chamber and the beginning of the rifling is the throat. It can vary in length and diameter depending on the manufacturer.

The leade comes into play here also. Leade is the "butt end" of the rifling lands. It can be sharp and abrupt or slightly tapered for a short (or long) distance until full height of the lands is reached. (I have a special .30 throat reamer that creates a leade with a 1 1/2 degree included angle taper. It is an accuracy enhancer, but the downside is that it then demands that cast bullets be seated a lot further out. Sometimes you just can't have your cake and eat it too.)

A cast bullet must be started straight into the rifling if best accuracy is the goal. How well the bullet fits the throat is key to that, and the leade can (should) help guide the bullet in also. Guys who are anal about cast bullet accuracy pay strict attention to all that and often go so far as to select the bullet size and shape that best fits the configuration of their throat/leade, and seat it accordingly so that it's guided straight and true with a minimum of distortion. Other guys reconfigure their throat/leade configuration to accomodate a specific bullet. Cast bullets are soft fragile little beasties that don't cotton to the kind of abuse that jacketed ones can shrug off as they start their long journey down the tube.

I suspect you're loading to magazine-compatible overall length? That may or may not be optimal. In fact it probably isn't. Seat it out until the nose is engraved by the leade, even if perchance it's only sticking inside the case neck by its toenails and try that. If rapid fire from the magazine is your goal, or a magazine full in reserve for hunting is of the essence, then you likely will have to make a compromise in your accuracy goals. Or maybe not. That's why you have to systematically eliminate all these variables to find out.

A well fitted bullet will shoot pretty well across a relatively wide range of velocities, but like any other load/rifle combo there'll be a sweet spot. An old gnarled cast bullet veteran will find that sweet spot pretty quickly, but only because he put on his thinking cap and analyzed his equipment's requirements before he casts the first bullet and seats it in a case.

This is the beauty of the cast bullet hobby. It can be approached on many levels, but all approaches must be thought about. It requires a little more participation of the shooter's brain. It can be richly rewarding or supremely frustrating- whichever one chooses to make it.

I’m loading into the lands no jump like some recommended. I checked them for runout and it was non existent. I’m opening the case mouth as recommended so not shave the bullet.. I’m going to track down 4198 or 5744 and try it I just need 2moa lol. This bang and clang is something to help me shooting off hand for service rifle matches

I got some 5744 as recommended headed to the range to test them and get velocity. I’m trying 24.5gr and 25.0

Also thank you for all the info you been providing.

Looks like 24.5gr of 5744, cci 200, bullet seated at 2.945 is the winner. With an avg velocity of 1980. Thanks again for the help and suggestions!

Try 16 grains of 2400 instead. That's a load mine loves for accurate soft shooting at about 1600 fps.

I found a load of 24.5 gr of 5744

Picked up a Rem. 770 bolt gun in 30-06 first of last year and loaded up some test loads for it awhile back. I was using mixed brass by Win. Rem. and Fed. along with CCI LR primers and I use three different powders Alliant 2400, H-4198 and Unique. The two bullets I used were the Lee 170 gr. FP and the Lee 160 gr. TL RN both powder coated, gas checked and sized to .311". Targets were shot at 50 yds. as that is as far as I can shoot around here in the backyard range without making a day trip to the public range. All load data came from the Lyman Cast Bullet manual #4, below are the groups but none were much larger than 1.5" and some under 1". We had some issues with the Chrono not reading probably due to overcast skies on some loads but I will be retesting those loads for data at some point as well as some additional powders I have and maybe even a primer change on a couple loads to see if that improves things. I haven't been behind the trigger since last Nov. after having surgery and weather not cooperating on my days off so I'm a bit rusty.



Cast up about 150 of the NOE 165 gr. 30 XCB bullets from the new mold I purchased over the 4th of July sales NOE had. I only had a limited time to work with them so I just coated about ten each using Super Durable Clear and Popping Silver Vein gas checked and sized them to see how they would turn out. I cast a random set of samples during the casting process and after they cooled I measure and weighed each set. The bullets across the sampling weighed between 167.0 and 167.3 grs. Two bullets from the mold using my micrometer measured .311" while the third bullet measured .311.5" The powder coating added around .002" to the diameter before sizing.





I sized these bullets to .309" and will do a test fit later in the week to see how well they chamber at that dia. if all goes well I'll load up a batch of test rds. to see how fast I can push this bullet, hopefully by the end of the day I will be at my target velocity of around 2500 fps. while still obtaining excellent accuracy.



I've found the load I plan on using 35.0 grs. of H-4198 and have loaded up enough to last me awhile. Average MV for 5 shots was 2279 fps.

Nice shooting.mb

The bulk of my experience with cast bullets is in .35 Whelen, when I started I was loading SR4759. Since that powder's discontinuance I have been using Unique. In .30-06 my load is a 150gr. GC cast bullet over 10.0gr. of Unique, it is a good load for my purpose which was exclusively plinking.

IMR 3031 at about 30 gr is good for a 200gr cast and up

79S Around here, vintage military matches, mostly '06's being used. Although you prefer not to get into casting, it can be done cheaply and still you can be competitive. The Lee 170 2 cav mold, wheelweights with a little tin added, Hornady gaschecks shoved thru a Lee tumble lube sizing die of .309 or .310. Always, Lee tumble lube. You can be in the game for about 50 bucks. Don't overthink powder choices, the beauty of gas check bullets is their adaptability to any reasonable velocity. Of course most guys opt for the aforementioned 16 gr of 2400, or RL7 or the 4198's. You didn't say what distances, but if you stay down around that 1600 fps area...you will spend more time shooting and less time tweaking loads.
My own favorite clanger gun (under 150 yds) is a 1904 Steyr Mannlicher 8x57, 175 gr Lee gas check bullet with about 13gr of Red Dot, for clanger fun. Around 1700 fps, it holds 2.2 moa with original military sights. I would not be afraid to bust a tender young forked horn with it, in case he charged me.

First, determine the diameter of your chamber's throat. Internet search "pound cast chamber throat measurement" to do this. Then find a cast bullet that just fits the throat ( ie 0.0005" smaller than throat diameter).

You not trying to find bullet diameter "a couple of thousands larger than groove diameter". That is too broad, and not the base measurement for selection ( NOT groove diameter). It SOUNDS good, and is in the right direction, but it is not the correct reference point you want to use. Use THROAT DIAMETER as reference point.

Many commercial cast bullet designs available. Look around. Best accuracy will be "near throat diameter" sized cast bullets.

I’m also looking at cast bullets for a 30-06. I bought a box of 500 lasercast bullets and added gas checks. I’ve been told that they need to be seated so that none of the bullet protrudes past the neck into the case. Is this correct?

I’ve only loaded cast bullets for rifles in 38-55 and.375Win. So it’s never been an issue.

Some people make that claim, but the thousands of cast bullets I have loaded that my family and I have fired that are seated so that some of the bullet is exposed in the case below the shoulder are testament that it is not ever an issue. This is in cartridges from 22 through 35 calibers, and includes 218 Bee, 223, 243, 270, 280, 30-06, 308, 30-30, 357 Herrett, 35 Whelen, and a few others.

I would say that seating some portion of the bullet below the neck with gas check below the neck is a non-issue, unless you need to pull those bullets for some reason. Then A pair of pliers or tweezers is sometimes required to pull the check out of the case if it comes off the bullet during pulling.

Ditto that. I do try to keep my bullets feet up out of the mud but if a base sticks down a bit I don't sweat it. Proper fit in the leade is more important anyway and if employing a long bullet in a short throat it's base is likely to intrude into the powder room.

look here

http://www.thecastbulletshop.com/30-caliber-rifle-17

I like the Lyman 322299

I have a mold for that one, actually the first I ever cast back in 1964. I was a young college student, living at home, so my first and successful attempt was using an old cast iron saucepan over charcoal, then dad got me a little single burner gas hotplate which I used for several years. I was shooting them through a winchester M70 featherweight, and found them extremely accurate. I think this bullet weighs in at about 200-205 gr. I did try one of the Lovrin (spelling on this one) types, a lighter weight with multiple grease grooves and never did get the accuracy. I don't know if anyone casts them or if molds are still available.

look here

http://www.thecastbulletshop.com/30-caliber-rifle-17

I like the Lyman 311299

I have a mold for that one, actually the first I ever cast back in 1964. I was a young college student, living at home, so my first and successful attempt was using an old cast iron saucepan over charcoal, then dad got me a little single burner gas hotplate which I used for several years. I was shooting them through a winchester M70 featherweight, and found them extremely accurate. I think this bullet weighs in at about 200-205 gr. I did try one of the Lovrin (spelling on this one) types, a lighter weight with multiple grease grooves and never did get the accuracy. I don't know if anyone casts them or if molds are still available. Use a good gas check,if casting and sizing my own prefer the crimp on like the Hornandy, or I got some from my friend Larry Blackmon at Bulletswaging supply.com in W. Monroe, La., stay away from the slip on thin brass gas check like the Lyman's

I ended up getting these bullets https://oregontrailbullets.com/xcart/?target=product&product_id=3 and using 16.0 grs of 2400. I got a lee .309 sizer and gas checks. I can shoot a 5 shot group less than an inch. Some of the best advice I got here was jamming the bullet into the lands. I will have to check my OAL tomorrow.