What would you chooses for elk, sheep, and moose? I'm leaning towards the .300 win mag but open to suggestions. Im looking at a winchester or weatherby vanguard meateater series. Any other rifles you would suggest?

If I had to choose 1 it would probably be the 300 win mag loaded with 215 Bergers.
Either would be fine

Me I would get a Winchester model 70 300 Win Mag and shoot the bullets most applicable to the species hunted. My 7MM RM won't do anything my 270 can't.

both cartridges are excellent

338wm

All 3.... why settle?

7mm RM with a 1:8 twist if you don't mind building one. The new 180 gr Hornady ELD bullets with BC's of .796 are on my list to try. Should be great for long shots in windy conditions.

My old Ruger Boat Paddle 7RM has taken many Elk and one Moose. Sheep is not feasible for me to draw so I'll not comment about that.

I'll second BSA about the .338 WM, especially for Elk. I have one of those too. Ruger 77 MkII of course.

Hell, I was going to add 308 Norma, 300H&H, and 300WBY to the list... Chit can the 300wm idea..

.

I've always found the recoil of a 300 Win Mag to be a little uncomfortable, even though my 300H&H isn't. I can't imagine my 7Mag not being capable of taking any non-dangerous game on the planet, with the proper bullets. If I got the chance to hunt dangerous game, you better believe I'd move up to something larger than a 300.

Basically, ease of shooting leads me to stick with the 7Mag.

I've killed all three of those critters for years with a 30/06. If you were adding an AK grizzly---300 Win Mag. If not pick the one you like. If I was doing it all over again--I would opt for the 308 Winchester. As for a rifle again pick the one that fits you. For I would look at a Tikka.

I would suggest you find friends with rifles in the calibers you like and shoot both... Many years ago, a friend was making the same choice.. I have both in similar wt. rifles, and I let him shoot both.. He went with the 7mm.. I prefer the .300, but he was not a shooter and reloader.. He would buy a couple bx. of ammo and use that.. It worked out fine.. Both are top of the line for 95 percent of the game we shoot..

I've had an itch for a 340 wby but heard brass had short life. I've never shot a 338 win mag or 340 wby. I have shot a 338 Lapua that wasn't bad.

Pretty much where I come out as well.

357, I made my .340 brass out of Rem. 8 mag brass.. Trim and you are read to roll.. I like my .340 far better than any of the .338's I have owned.. But it does not get the use my .300 and 7mm get..

I like both and what one can do so can the other. On elk and moose the 7RM seems like a step up over the 270, for deer not much advantage for the 7RM. The 300WM seems like a step up once you go to bullets heavier than 180 grains, whether this is significant or psychological is hard to say. If big bears are about the 300WM would get the nod although I have carried a 7RM as a fishing gun when the big brownies were thick.

I can shoot more with the 7RM than with the 300WM which has just enough more recoil to be noticeable. A Tikka T3 light was uncomfortable for me even in 300 WSM which is supposed to have less recoil than the 300WM. Les Bowen wrote numerous times he hated to see the dudes show up at elk camp with a brand new 300 magnum because they usually didn't shoot them well. He would much prefer they bring a well broken in 270 or 30-06.

Flip a coin or go for which rifle that feels the best.

7mm Rem Mag loaded with 160 grain Nosler Partitions.

I'm just in the mood to put together another 300 Winchester Magnum. I always got quick kills with the two I have had in the past, great accuracy too.

I’d error on the side of less recoil.

For those 3 animals, I'd go with the .300 and I'd consider .338 and .300 WSM. Add in deer, antelope, and maybe a coyote, and the 7mm mag might be my choice. I'd add in the .270 WSM to the list. Of the 2 rifles you list, I'd go with the Winchester 70, preferably the stainless extreme. I would probably also consider a Kimber Mountain Ascent as a lighter weight alternative.

Tom

300 wm, cause that's what I've hunted with since I was 12. Ruger m77. Only 7 mag I ever shot hurt more. Must have been something about the fit of the stock. Either will get it done.

Nothing you shoot with either cartridge will know the difference.

Buy a stainless Tikka in either chambering.




P

Noslers will outrun everything mentioned without a belt... pick a diameter 28-30-33 and go to town!

I had the same question about 30 years ago. Had a 300 built on a pre 64, Shilen match SS barrel, brown pounder stock. It killed stuff. Never thought about a 7MM again.

I have and like both. The 300 and one of my 7mm's are 700 Remingtons. They both shoot very very accurately. I also have a Ruger Tang safety 77 7mm.

I wouldn't hesitate using any on those animals you have listed.

Got both, 338 Win mag too. They would all work just fine

I have 7 RM & 300 WM.

I'd take my Tikka T3X SS Lite 7 RM for anything in N A.

That ^^ based on 458 Win (Mr. Phil) telling us that the 30-06 is dependable for Brown Bear, so........

Jerry

You should know. That's where you are.


jwall said that !!

Including a trip to the gunsmith for a re barrel job.I’ve had both and enjoy the 7 mm with 180 s the most. My 7 RUM will be a 7 REM mag here shortly as the barrel is about gone.

Including a trip to the gunsmith for a re barrel job.I’ve had both and enjoy the 7 mm rem with 180 s the most. My 7 RUM will be a 7 REM mag here shortly as the barrel is about gone.

Not opposed to Nosler but need to get brass, so not sure if I would go with Nosler.

Esox357;
Good morning to you sir, I hope this second last Monday before Christmas is going okay for you thus far and those who matter in your world are well.

For rifles, I'd absolutely suggest handling as many as possible to see what feels best to you and what seems to fit you best.

On a Canuck forum I'm on we're in the midst of discussing rifle fitment and it's effects on felt recoil - short version it's a pretty big deal. I'd recommend a couple of John Barsness' books on the subject too as he's able to explain it better than I, but again the short version is he's right in my experience and it matters - a lot.

Everyone has a line in the sand which they'll do their best work with as far as perceived recoil goes. I used to shoot with a chap who was 14" taller than me and scaled out at more than 400lb while I was a towering 5'6" and 150lbs... We used to have spirited discussions on which of us got the worst of a featherweight .458 Win Mag a buddy had as he'd just sort of soak it all up and it would hurl me off the bench.

Over the years I've played with 3 different 7mm RemMags quite a bit, then 3 different .308 Norma's and a couple .300 Win Mags.

As a broad statement I'd say that with a 24" barrel we had an easier time making the .300/.308 Mags run up to "book" velocities with 165/168/180gr bullets than the 7mmRemMag achieved with 140-160gr bullets.

Please note that was a good long while ago and newer powders might change all that considerably - I don't know.

While there might be some small difference in perceived recoil, if one had two identical rifles in both cartridges and was shooting similar weight projectiles, it may or may not be a factor. My gut feel is it wouldn't be much difference however.

Having been there when a 7mmRemMag killed deer sized animals and then helping to process a few more for friends, I'd be shocked if anyone could tell any difference in animal reaction whatsoever when similarly constructed bullets and shot placement were involved.

The vast bulk of my experience is with deer/black bear sized animals, but I have shot a California Bighorn and we live in sheep country so get to talk to a fair few folks who also have shot sheep. While a sheep does have a blockier front end for sure, they're about like deer when it comes to reacting to being hit by a bullet.

Moose are a different thing in that they sometimes need to cogitate on life and death for a wee bit before falling over. I've talked to guys who hunted mountain goats who said they reacted a lot like moose when hit, which is to say sometimes not much at all.

Lastly, if you're leaning towards a .300WinMag, I'd just make sure that it works fine through the action of the rifle you're buying. While that may sound a bit odd, I've worked on Ruger 77's that were just a tad short for some .300WinMag factory ammo and in fact that's why my own tang model Ruger 77 is chambered for the .308 Norma.

Hopefully that was useful for you or someone out there sir. Good luck with your search for a new hunting arm whichever way you decide.

All the best to you this Christmas Season.

Dwayne

Good morning Dwayne,

Thank you for sharing your experience. I have an itch for a hunting rifle that can take big game. Just can't make up my mind which gives the most for least recoil. I also now realize it's a bad time to purchase components and don't want to be stuck with a rifle I can't shoot. I'm sure all cartridges mentioned would work fine. I wish you and yours a Happy Christmas season as well! Take care.

All good comments. Neither cartridge will let you down loaded with sturdy bullets. In my elk hunting circle, I have seen about equal numbers of deer and elk cleanly killed with both cartridges over the past 15 years or so. Recoil may be a little less with the 7mm with slightly lighter bullets assuming the rifles weigh about the same. Happy Trails

I’d go 7RM, for sure.

I have both plus a 338.
The 338 has just been safe ballast, so no experience on game.


Here's the thing,

You can get very similar trajectories from both.
The 300 will probably hit a bit harder.
But, the 7mm will hit plenty hard enough.

The 300 will hit you much harder.


Oversimplifying?

If you look at it critically, considering that once you get to the point you need to
correct for drop...

Well,
Now the 30-06, 280, 270....

start to crowd in. Cheaper, easier to get(usually), less recoil.

I would run a brake or can on a 300 if I go that route. The 7 mag makes sense but the factory barrels are twisted for 175 and down it appears. I do have about 200 162 amax sitting around

You can by a used 700 and rebarrel for what ever twist and length you want...

I've had multiple 7s and 300s. The 7s have less recoil > > in similar rifles.

Less bullet wt., Less powder.

ATST I like my Black Shadow 300 WM.

Jerry

If I was going to carrie all the extra weight of a belted mag... I would go with the 300 and would even lean more toward the 338

I hand load, and see no advantage to the 7 mag... A 280ai can do anything the 7mag can do.

2X find friends and shoot them both.

Both would work as well as the other until you get to the the "margins" of each. Plenty out there to choose from without having to break the bank. Components and loaded ammo are a wash. Worst case is you get a rifle you don't like and have to move it. As said, the 7mm is likely to recoil a little less (160g 7mm v 180g .308s) in like rifles and you probably don't need anything bigger for the hunting you are expecting.
FWIW, I have owned both and both have worked as advertised. Find one you like and enjoy.

Many 7RM factory twist rates are 9", but even a 9.5" will marginally stabilize the 180 ELD, 190 ATip, and 195 Berg at 7RM speeds. As a worst case you may lose a few percentage points on the BC value, but they'll shoot fine. Unless you're at sea level shooting in 0 F weather with a 9.5" twist, the reduction in BC will be minimal and possibly non-existent.

Of course the 162 AM is a peach in the 7RM.

Used a 7mm RM exclusively for elk hunting for 20+ years starting in 1982. Took my last elk with the 7mm RM in 2015.

Got a .300WM and have taken multiple elk with it as well.

Can I tell a difference? Not really. At or past 600 yards I'll take the 300, but my longest shot on any big game animal is 487 yards.

I'm a 30 caliber guy. I'd take a 300 anyday over a 7mm. To me a 7mm doesnt have much over a 270 or 280.

have used 300 win on sheep, goats, elk and moose perfect caliber, if u are on foot about 8 pounds all up is the right weight! if u are on horse/atv does not matter much.

have fun, shoot straight!

Thanks guys.

This^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Looking at the Federal Premium site and comparing loads for the .270, 7mm RM and .300WM using the Terminal Ascent bullets, the 7mm RM has a bigger advantage over the .270 than the .300WM does over the 7mm RM. At 500 yards, the max range for the charts, the 7mm RM has the most velocity, least wind drift and least drop of the three cartridges. When it comes to energy the .300 load has 140fpe more than the 7mm RM but the 7mm RM has 382fpe more than the .270.

Federal does not offer the Terminal Ascent in the .280 Rem, but I have loaded them for both my .280 and 7mm RM. Tne resulting velocities were 2898fps and 3085fps respectively. The 7mm RM leads by all ballistic measures. At 500 yards it leads by 157fps and 246fpe. If using equal velocity and energy as the measure, the 7mm RM adds 115 yards to the effective range of my .280 Rem. That is pretty significant in my book.

Subjectivity and emotion always play a large role in discussion topics like this one.

Get whatever one you like...No animal will care which one you use...

Been shooting the 7mm Mag since I was 13 and I am 57 now. It has done everything I needed it to do in the USA, Europe and Africa. If I need to go bigger than the 7mm I go to either a 9.3x62 or a 375 H&H. Not enough difference between the 7mm and the 300 to make me switch.

either will work. I would lean towards the .300WM... I have shot one for elk for years and am impressed with it.

7RM...or 308 if efficiency is king.

The gains in velocity are disproportionate to the increase in recoil when you move above 308, and it will unequivocally do what you’re looking for.

With that said if I had a once in a lifetime hunt and might only get 1 opportunity with a 400 plus yard shot I would want a 7RM.

After shooting the 7mm RM for 39 years and the the .300WM for 18, I tend to agree.

So I bought a .338WM.

If you want the lighter bullet weight of the 7mm, just use 165's in the 300 and you'll have a real zinger. I used them in my 300 WSM and they worked great on elk.

Im leaning towards a 300 win mag. But have limited experience with a 7mag. Curious if anyone notices more bloodshot meat with one or the other?

Have been observing the effects of the 7mm RM, .300 WM and 338 WM for 30+ years on a lot of big game around the world. Have yet to see any vast difference in "killing power," given equal placement of a deep-penetrating bullet, put in the right place.

I suspect there are three reasons some people believe in a difference:
1) They believe the harder a rifle kicks, the "better" it kills.
2) They're more willing to put a bullet through heavy shoulder bones with bigger caliber bullets. In my experience, this affects "killing power" more than caliber or bullet weight.
3) As a result of 2, they firmly believe in "examples of one."

I've killed a lot of deer with both rounds. Your answer depends on 2 things.

1. Bullet Used.

2. Bullet placement.

Jerry

I killed several whitetail with a 300wm. If you put it on the shoulder inside 150 yards, they don't take a step, but you also nuke some meat.

Having personally used, and witnessed both used on Elk and Moose....300 Winchester Magnum hands down. Our entire hunting camp has made the switch over the years...we used to me a 7 Mag camp, now there isn't one to be found.

I know four guys who had and got rid of their 7mags. They were not impressed with its performance. On the other hand they all had great respect for my 300win. Opinions vary but results of our small group was unanimous. Good luck with your purchase. Edk

I've only taken a deer, a black bear, and a coyote (target of opportunity, just happened to be the gun I had in my hands) so that's not much experience compared to a lot of guys here. I haven't been able to get enthused about the 7 mag ( or 7mms in general) had one and got rid of it. Hated to do it too because it was a very nice rifle. Have a 280 I used for several years but I keep it because it shoots quite well and I like the rifle itself. I think the 280 can do anything the 7 mag can despite the ballistic numbers. It is close enough in numbers and performance to the 270/'06/280 that to me it's not much of an upgrade.
Therefore another vote for the 300

300 everyday, all day. My flavor is a Model 70 300 H&H with 180gr TTSX's.

30-06 with 150 grain TTSX. Will do anything you need it to except maybe Brown Bear. Then I’d just go to a 180 grain.

Edited to add that the difference between a 7 Rem mag and a 30-06 is insignificant. The 300 Win Mag just adds more recoil. Inside of 350 - 400 yards you won’t see any difference between the 3. And that includes real or imagined.

I have a 300 WM and I love it. I can load it down to an 06 or +p it for the brown bear I'll never get a chance to hunt. Most days it just just stays an 06+p and gets used to go elk hunting. Any day, it can go to the range and shoot a 3/4" or less group. Just a plain old Win xpr that's ben magnaported (just wear in ear hearing enhancement/protection).

My 300 H&H is loaded in between 30-06 and max 300 H&H levels. I deliberately chose a load that was 100 fps slower. 2905 vs 3015.

I also have a 165 GMX load pushing 3200fps. Bu I chose the 180gr load for Africa. I used the same 180gr load on a mule deer. Needless to say it worked.

If I was to ever use it specifically for deer size game, I would load up some 165's. That bullet would have probably worked just as well in Africa and the mule deer.

Shoot any of em’ in the chest with either a .300 mag or a 7 mag and you’re gonna have a dead animal. The animal ain’t gonna tell any difference between the two.

I have shot both.. Both are good, but I still like the.30 better!!

Our current elk camp/cohorts used to be heavy on the 7mm Rem Mag, .270 WSM, .270, and 30-06. I think there is only one guy who still shoots a 7mm Rem Mag for elk. .300 magnums dominate the gun rack these days. I tote the .300 Weatherby on all elk hunts in the Rockies. I understand that there are a slew of other cartridges that will get the job done, but nothing else has equaled its performance for me. I could give a chit if the other guys track wounded game all over hell’s half acre. I prefer the DRT that the .300 Weatherby has produced for me. It’s heavy with a Kahles scope but I’d rather pack a heavier rifle than a bull out of some hell hole a half mile from where I shot him. Ymmv and I respect that. BFN

That's more the function of the bullet than the caliber. Some bullets are made to mushroom faster and they'll cause more bloodshot, especially if it hits a big bone. I've shot a lot of elk with Nosler AB's and they'll splatter pretty bad sometimes. Even just hitting a rib will cause bloodshot.

Most would rate .300win/200 NP rather highly,
I wouldn't rate 7RM/175 AF lesser for 'in target'
performance- considering AF superior
weight retention and sectional density.
MV/BC of both being neck and neck.

No, but that I think that is in large part because I use similar type bullets in them at similar velocities.

Thanks guys. Think a 300 win mag is calling me.

Look, I didn't even stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, but . . .

I agree with the guys who say "Try before you buy." I'm also with the guys who say "Try a 30-06."

Yes, there might be a reason why a 300 Win Mag or a 7 Rem Mag might make sense down the road, but you could get nearly all the way there with an '06 and 165 grainers. The reasons I suggest this are as follows: Most of the too-much-gun scenarios I've seen have included these two chamberings. They're also MUCH more expensive to shoot. I've shot them, and I'm a big guy, but they both punish my shoulder more than I like.

" But I might want to . . ." Honestly, most guys who buy hard recoiling rifles tend to leave them in the closet. The ones that give them good performance at reasonable recoil levels tend to be used a lot. Buy for what you know you're going to hunt now and you'll probably find that it's enough for later. If not, you'll know better what you need.

I like long, heavy for caliber bullets in both of em’. No difference in terminal effects with either of em’.

I never have hunted elk but for me it would be hard to pass on using that 308.

Load a mono 150 or shoot a 165 Partition/Accubond.

No reason any of these wouldn't work to 400 yards.

Owned a 300wm and my current 7 is a 7-08 so for me it would be 7RM.

I never found the 300 to be all that much more/great than a 30-06 appropriately loaded. Much as others here have said the 7RM isn't much more than the 280 (makes sense right?)

There really isn't a 30 cal bulled that gets me super excited these days and I'm sitting on a couple hundred 162 AM's - I'd end up 7RM if I HAD to have a mag of some sort between what you list.

The 300 WSM is very close to the 300 WM. I used one for years and shot a lot of elk with it, almost all 1 shot kills DRT. The farthest I ever tracked one was 50 yds ( a dead elk sliding down a mountainside in snow doesn't count as tracking). Then one day I realized that there wasn't a single elk I'd killed with the 300 that I couldn't have shot just as easily with a 30-06 that weighs a pound less. Pounds add up as fast as my years have. So, I switched back to the old '06. I use 165 gr AB's and the elk killing results have been exactly the same since I did. The elk fall down with 1 shot, never going anywhere.
The 300's will reach out farther, but in all these years, the longest shot I've ever needed to take was 350 yds. I'm not a fan of long range wounding. You never hear about those, now do you? You only heard about the ones that die. I wonder why? When the elk is 500 yds away, I've never found it impossible to get closer.

I LIKE mine and have had 4 or 5 others in the past.

If the recoil is manageable for you.....it'll work.
** Note ** In 'similar' rifles the 300 WILL have more recoil.

I won't lug around a 'heavy' rile even for deer hunting. My T3X SS Lite 7 RM with scope weighs 6 (SIX) oz more than
my T3 Lite SS 270.
My Black Shadow 300 weighs a little more than a pound than the 7 RM. I CAN tell the diff in recol.

I REALLY like both rounds. THEY will work.

Good Luck

Jerry

The 300 WSM would be a great choice that would allow you to shoot heavier bullets than the 7 mag with a little less recoil than the 300 Win. It's not hard to find one that weighs the same as standard calibers like an 06. If it kicks a little more than you want have it magna-ported or put a brake on it.

Esox357
There are a million good elk cartridges to include your 308 which have been written about at great length. Looking at my load for a 300 WM with 180g bullet v my 30-06 with a 165; both zeroed to be 2.5 high at 100. The 300WM gets you about another 25 yards before you reach a foot of drop and thats between 375 and 400 yards. I think the truth is, for the animals you want to shoot, it's really about taking afield the rifle/cartridge combination that you really want to use. If it's a 300 WM, great, if its something else, thats just as great. You are kind of in that "cant go wrong" area but if you do, you can change.

Diameters are so close that bullets will matter more.

In my 7mm rem mag I use the 145 LRX at 3200 fps plus.

In the 300 I use the 175 LRX or 180 TTSX at 3100 or 3000 plus..

Nothing these combos can not handle. And the bullets do not turn into shrapnel.

I agree, dont believe it is much difference between them. Moose makes me want the 300 win. But I realize a 7 mag could do it as well. The deciding factor will be finding components.

Lots of good advice on here, either choice is going to work well if you can shoot it well. I think equally important is you practice at various ranges to learn your equipment and loads.

Having owned both mags, I prefer a lightweight '06 with 150 GMXs similar to what JBabcock wrote. What the late Bob Hagel wrote in the 70s about the' 06 is pretty much the same today.

I imagine a 7 mm 160 gr Accubond will get as far as needed in any of those animals.
GreggH

I’ve only read the first page of this, so forgive me if it’s been covered already.

My question to the OP would be, how much shooting experience do you have and is a .300 win mag comfortable for you to shoot well? I can handle a .300 mag personally, but the .338’s recoil impulse is just enough slower and different to me that I preferred it instead.

Your going to be best served by a rifle/cartridge combo that you handle well and enjoy shooting. For me, with the two options you stated, I’d be happier with the 7 mag. Moose and sheep tags don’t grow on trees, so limited usage there. Elk tags are much easier to acquire and are well suited to the 7 mags. Deer and antelope don’t need that kind of power and can be hunted with milder, fun to shoot cartridges..... my $0.02

Never shot a .300 win mag. I shot a 338 Lapua which wasn't bad. I prefer the push recoil vs the quick jab. I plan on a brake for a 300 if I go that route. Moose is very limited if im lucky I will hunt them twice in my lifetime. More elk than anything.

I didn't like shooting my .300 WM much until I got my TBAC Ultra 7 put on. Now, it's actually not bad at all.

So if recoil is the deciding factor, consider adding a brake or suppressor and that very well may make the choice easier.

Hows recoil with TBAC 7?

One of my partners is a retired army ranger officer. He's shot enough rounds from many different guns to fill a large dumpster. However, a 300 WM causes him to flinch. He's tried and tried to get over it but can't. A 30-06 in his hands is as deadly as any gun ever made but he just can't get it right with the 300.

A 300 WSM is very close to the 300 WM but to me, anyway, it doesn't seen to kick nearly as hard. There's a noticeable difference over an '06, but not as much as the 300 WM. A person who can't get used to the WM might do well to try the WSM for comparison.

Good to know.

Back before I could afford my own rifle, I borrowed dad’s gun guy friend’s .300WM m70 and shot some deer with it. Then when I wanted a one size fits all chambering, I knew that it was going to be a work in progress to make it as light weight as possible. A ‘63 vintage 700 BDL was eventually made into a 6# mountain rifle and 7# with a scope. Mostly hunting deer in WI. I knew that it wasn’t going to be a bigger .300WM. Out west my 7mm RM elk were right there on the same meat pole with my buddy’s .338WM and .300WM elk. Rock Chuck’s recoil sensitive buddy mirrors what I’ve seen on the range during sight in days. A larger cartridge is worse than a smaller one when a guy flinches from the recoil. The 7mm RM/.30-06 size cartridges are about the limit to what the average guy can shoot well.

As bullets and rangefinder/scope technology has improved over the years, I’ve tended towards less powerful cartridges for hunting, not the other way around. I’ve seen plenty of game die via larger calibers and more powerful cartridges, but with moose, elk, and bear being the largest animals on my menu, I have zero need for anything larger than a 7RM, and even that gets a lot less hunting use than the 6.5 Creed/7-08/.308 class of cartridge these days. I shoot that SA class of cartridge a lot more than my 7 Mags, even in practice. Less powder consumption and recoil encourages more practice, which leads to increased shot placement precision and confidence, which usually provides much more benefit than increased caliber or speed. I saw a bull moose get absolutely pole-axed by a 6.5 Creedmoor and 127 LRX this year, with a non-CNS shot. A .300WM wouldn’t have added a single thing to the equation, except recoil.

I've got the CB mount with the Ultra 7 and all I can say is the difference between with and without is substantial.

Calcs for 300 Roy/180grain vs. 338win/225
recoil impulse both come out @ 4.3 lbs

Having owned them(each just over 9 lb) , Wby 'felt'
better with Brown Prec. compared to Win factory
tupperware.

As many have said, either will work great if you find a good ammo match for the rifle. Just to make it a bit more concrete, I was looking for a specific ballistic comparison. For one example, I was looking at how Nosler loads these two cartridges. According to what they say, for whatever that is worth, in the TG line of ammo, they load them like this with both zeroed at 200 yds:
7mm RM - 168gr ABLR: Muzzle: 2,880 fps. 500 yds: 2,163 fps; -38.8” drop.
.300 WM - 190gr ABLR: Muzzle: 2,870 fps. 500 yds: 2,135 fps; -39.4” drop.

Almost identical except for the 22gr/13% heavier bullet out of the .300. Probably not going to make a difference in 99.9% of circumstances.

Of course, there are scores of other combinations. But I think that example illustrates how similar they are. The .300 can push a 13% heavier bullet at about the same speed as a 7mm. I have owned a .300 WM for 33 years. I painted houses when I was 19 and in school so that I could afford to buy the rifle I wanted—a Rem. 700 BDL in .300 WM. I still have it. I also have a 7mm Wby. I can’t tell the difference in performance of the two. I’m offering either of them to my 16-yr-old son to move up to from his .243 he used for years. He’s still thinking it over, but he seems to prefer the 7mm Wby.

If I had the choice to use a 7mm RM or 300 WM on any N. American hunt, and had accurate good loads for both, I might actually flip a coin. The only exception might be a brown bear hunt, for which I might prefer the 300 WM because you can load it with 200+gr bullets. But, in reality, a 175gr 7mm probably would do materially the same in almost all circumstances with the same shot placement. But that would be one hunt where I personally would choose the .300 WM.

As to recoil, I wouldn’t worry about either. Do two things when at the range: (1) put a removable bipod on the rifle; and (2) wear one of those leather, padded shoulder shooting pads. You never will have the slightest bruising, and the weight and padding will make any rifle much more comfortable to shoot. Take the bipod off for field use if you want. You will not notice the recoil in the field.

My dad, back when he was in his 40s, shot my 300 WM without doing those two things. He remembered that for decades, and said he said that he NEVER wanted to shoot that thing again. 11 years ago, then in his late-60s, I lent him that same rifle with full loads for an Alaskan bear hunt we were going on together. He did the two things I described above. He said he had no discomfort at all; and he got 1/2” groups at 100 yds. He said he couldn’t believe how much of a difference doing those two made. When I do those two things, I can shoot my .340 Wby at the range all day long without any discomfort.

Just my $0.02.

I was going to bring up the removable shoulder pad for recoil management. I have used a Bob Allen shoulder pad harness for about 20yrs. In addition on really hard kickers at the range I'll even roll up a small towel and add/tuck it between the butt and my shoulder. When shooting at game I rarely notice recoil, it's a non-issue.

One way to check for flinch at the range is to have someone unload the rifle unknowingly to the shooter and let them shoot on an empty chamber. If they have developed a flinch it will be obvious. I never let my son shoot too long if he's shooting a hard kicker, and always make him wear the shoulder pad harness. And 1" Decelerators help too.

Keep in mind alot of ultralight rifles in non-magnum cartridges kick hard. My 6lb 30/06 with certain loads will kick as hard as my 8lb+ 300WM. Lighter bullets help too which is why I shoot 150gr GMXs. You can check recoil ft lbs using one of the many online recoil calculators.

Not a fan of muzzle brakes either btdt.

Agreed MtnHtr. One thing I’ve done that is similar is telling a shooter straight up that I am going to hand him the rifle back and it either will be loaded or not (or have him step away from the bench and look the other way while you work the action either chambering a round or putting the bolt over the top round with an empty chamber). The shooter won’t know and, in my experience, will work very hard not to flinch to avoid the stigma they feel about it. As you said, for the times that the rifle is unchambered, you will know one way or the other whether they are flinching. But this method, in my experience, can help to mitigate a flinch if it’s there as well.

That's approximately true, but the .300 requires about 22% more bullet weight to match the BC of the 7mm bullet, so as distance increases the 7mm advantage increases as well.

I did that one time unwittingly to myself. I was practicing with my .375 Wby at an outdoor range for an upcoming Alaskan hunt. I was shooting it pretty well, but I couldn’t tell for sure if I was flinching at all or not. I loaded it with four down and an empty chamber to practice with the action that way because most AK guides make you hunt that way. The friendly guy in the next booth started talking to me about what anti-tank weapon I was shooting for a bit. When we were done talking, I returned to continue shooting--forgetting that I hadn’t chambered a round. When it went click, I was still staring motionless with my cross-hairs still on the bullseye. So. then I knew.

I think a lot of it comes down to minutia. Sure a 7mm mag might beat a 300 mag after a certain distance.....sure a 300 mag can be loaded closer with say a 215 berger....and on and on...

Really that ONLY MATTERS if you are going to try and shoot something to those distances. If you are going to be more the norm...then 400 yards and in is all you need to be concerned about. Then choices also get harder because cartridges get even closer. If you really just want to be prepared then say a max of 500 yards.....so still close for a-lot of cals....

I do put some credibility on some information I think is relevant. A poster here by JJHACK found after shooting many animals and seeing many animals shot that a .30 cal just did better over a wide range of animals and circumstances (He was/is a PH in africa - 30-06), RBROS has culled more elk than most of us will be able to kill in many lifetimes - many at extreme ranges....he also finds the .30 cal to just kill better over a wide range of circumstances.(300 win, 215 berger). Scenarshooter has used a 308 to good effect as well....

I don't know how to prove anything of course. Obviously almost every cal can work just fine. My wife uses a 243 with my handloaded 95 gr ballistic tips....deer and elk have all been a non event. She won't use anything else. She can shoot it really well of course......

Personally I lean towards a 308 or a 30-06 for myself. I have a personal limit of 500 yards max on game. So both cartridges will work fine, however having an extra round in the mag is nice, lower cost of ammo / components is nice, availability of loaded ammo is nice - just picked up some .06 at Wally yesterday, weight of the rifles is nice, less recoil is nice, more practice is nice........YMMV

It’s a matter of taste I know but I’ve never had anything for either of these cartridges at all.

If choosing between them I’d go 7RM because of high BC bullet selection that isn’t going to have the recoil of the .300. Seems easier to place a bullet where it belongs with 7RM.

There isn’t an animal in NA that would be able to tell the difference between hits from these cartridges assuming similar bullet construction and placement.

Take yer pick you have only to please yourself!

Not much difference between a 175 in the 7mm and the 180 in the 300 win. Hasbeen

Only about 20 grains more powder in the .300

In an M70, I go with the 7mm because the shorter case gives me more room in the box to play with OAL. A full length action like a 700, and I’d consider the 300.

I have never had a model 70 that I left the mag box spacer in.

Doesn’t that require having to modify the ejector and bolt stop? Seems like a lot of effort vs buying a 7mm Rem Mag or an M700.

Yes, a bolt stop, H&H length mag and a H&H, RUM, etc ejector. It’s usually about 50 bucks worth of parts to get 3.6” out of the magazine.

20 grains matter

Answer to the question is packaged up right here boys!

.223 Rem
257 Roberts
270 Win
7-08 Rem
280 Rem
7 Rem Mag
308 Win
30-06 Sprg
300 Win
50 cal muzzlesmoker

Prob left out a few chamberings
I couldn’t tell any difference.
They weren’t able to tell me any difference.
They were all dead when I got to them.
All boxes are full of some kinda wild steak.
*NOTE* All animals were harmed in production.

Of the two choices, today I’d pick the 7 Rem Mag.

Meat and Covfefe! That’s a man’s freezer right there!

Nice stash, just curious why you freeze the coffee? Long term storage?

Pete’s box is full of steaks. It’s what was handy that fits up there.

Thats cool!

Agreed.

In my 7mm RM I've used 140g North Fork HP (prototypes, still have a couple hundred of these).160g Speer Grand Slam and 160g North Fork SS. I've also developed loads for the 140g Barnes TTSX and Federal's ne 155g Terminal Ascent.

In the .300WM I've used 180g Barnes MRX and TTSX, 180g North Fork SS and now primarily use Barnes 175g LRX.


They all seem to work about the same.

I haven't fooled around with the 7mm rem mag much, but have fooled around with then 7mm weatherby quit a bit. To me the difference in recoil between a 7mm mag and a 300 win isn't much. Both kick pretty good for someone recoil sensitive neither are ideal IMO.
I like the 300 win mag because I prefer 30 cals, but either will do anything in North America which needs doing provided you select bullets responsibly.
I have a stash of 300 weatherby followers. I remove the spacer and tighten weld the mag box vertical seam. Alter the bolt stop and follower to match. I then add a Brownells magnum magazine box spring, which I also have a stash of.

Having killed a number of big game with both the 7mm mag, and the 300 WM I would go with the 300. I have had mine since 1970 and have hunted extensively with it. I believe that I can see a difference in the reaction animals have to both these cartridges. Based on field experience , the animals I have killed with the 7mm seem to wander around more, and take a second shot more often. This is what I have seen, others will undoubtedly see differently, but my sample is on over 100 head of big game.

That looks exactly like one of my freezers. Im sure the door pockets are stuffed too. The bad thing about me is I still have to collect 4 turkeys from a local turkey shoot. I had to give away 2 turkeys from last year, that i won. Running out of freezer room.

That was my point

I’ve killed big game with the .223, 7mm Rem Mag, .300 WSM and .300 Win Mag.

I personally find the recoil difference between the 7RM and .300 Win insignificant. The .300 is more but it doesn’t bother me. It just feels different. The .300 WSM is more like the 7mm recoil wise.

I’ve killed the most game with a 7mm Rem Mag followed closely by the .30-06. If I were you I’d shoot them in similar rifles and see what your opinion is. Around here there is far more 7mm components than .30 cal in these times. I’d shoot a .300 with 180s if it was me hunting those things. Maybe 200’s if I did more Moose and Elk. 180 grain .30 caliber bullets at 3,000 FPS will be plenty for anything on your list.

? ? ? ? ?

How many 7 RMs & 300 WMs have you loaded ?

Yes by comparing cherries to apples you can get 20 or more grains diff BUT
that ain't normal.


From Nosler # 7 manual

7 RM - 160 gr bullet Mag Pro -- 72 grs Max load

300 W 180 gr bullet IMR 7828 - 70 grs Max load

* My 8 RM 200gr IMR 4831 - 80 grs Max load -- Re JRS


Jerry

REALLY ?

All grains matter

I have both a 7Mag and a .300 Win. Have used both over the years to the point of which rifle killed what.? Overall I cant say that I noticed any difference in killing speed between the two.

I Used mostly 180 & 200 gr in the .300 and mostly 175 in the 7.

Moose, Caribou, deer, elk, grizzly bear all taken cleanly. Never lost a animal with either. Recoil with the Win a little sharper.


BTW my .308 kills as good as the .300 and 7.............

Lefty

+4

I’ve loaded for both a lot and for a long time. it just depends on what bullets you’re using and what powder and gun. For years a 160 nosler partition with IMR or H 4831 was 62 to 65 grs depending on the gun. At the time I was shooting 83.5 grs of h1000 out of a 300 fed 215 m and 180 sbt and you could run 80 with 200s by the book Talk about cherry-picking. I believe I said about but you want to cut me over a grain or two GFY. And just in case you can’t figure it out for yourself it was said with humor.

The 35 whelen shoots far enough....

If you have a 1:8 twist barrel, the new Barnes Bullets, 208 gr LRX will be a great hammer. Have been shooting it in my new 24" 300 WM with Peterson brass and have been getting .5" and .6", 5-shot groups with Rel 26. Not sure what info is out there yet but i've been given permission to talk about it.

Alan

I’ve mostly gotten over the .300___ virus, find that game doesn’t fall noticeably quicker with them than with the .30-06 or .270 and the right bullets.

In the 30-06, with a 200 gr Nosler Partition going 2730 fps in an accurate rifle, I don’t lack for hitting ability within what I consider maximum range (500 yards).

I have similar feelings about the 7mm Rem Mag and the .270. I load a 150 gr Nosler Partition to 3050 fps, get excellent penetration (pass throughs) on elk with a lot less fuss and a lighter rifle. And if I want even more penetration, I will use the 160 NP at around 2800 fps.

If I want more power, next step is the .375 H&H for me.

Boring, but there it is. The bullet is a lot more important than the caliber.

That sounds pretty wicked.

Will that seat in a standard 300 Win chamber or does it need to be loaded longer?

I’ve shot a bunch of elk with a 300wby and have seen a bunch shot with a 300win. I’ve also shot a number elk with a 7STW using 160 accubonds. My hunting was in country where shots averaged 350yds or more. I also have a strong preference for breaking an animal down on quartering shots by taking out at least one shoulder (I know a lot of folks do not share this view). All killed efficiently. I tend to load rifles for using a single load for deer and elk. Comparing the 300s with the STW, I d be shooting 180/200s vs 160s in the big 7. For elk and moose, I’d always prefer the heavier .308 options. To be clear, There is not an elk or moose alive that could take a well placed 160accubond out of any 7mm cartridge. It’s just at the ranges I hunted, I felt the extra weight was more likely to hit harder and leave two holes even if a shoulder was hit. FWIW, my elk cartridge of choice is a 340wby...which also kills deer plenty well.

What rifle, and what do you shoot outta that?

My .340 Accumark loves the 225gr TTSXs loaded by CorBon, and 3,140 fps outa the muzzle.

Mark V synthetic. My preferred load was the factory 210 partitions at 3250. It would regularly clover leaf and accounted for my longest shots on deer and antelope. Sadly, Weatherby no longer makes these loads and I’ve been unable to match accuracy and velocity at the the same time. I’m presently playing with 225 accubonds and partitions using RL26. I’m making progress but not done tweaking COAL. They’ll shoot well enough....but not what I’ve come to expect from the rifle.

These: https://shopcorbon.com/index.php?ro...oduct_id=72&mfp=11-type-of-cartridge[Rifle]&page=3

Shoot like this at 100 yds out of mine:



Might want to give them a try.

Work well on moose too:

Pretty hard to beat a 300 Mag for all around mixed bag hunting especially from sheep to moose.
I’ve had great results using 200 Grain Nosler Partitions . Nothing wrong in choosing the 7mm Mag either.

Yes both great cartridges!

Zactly

The .340 Wea Mag is a real killer. It was my cartridge of choice for elk and moose when I was younger. I used 250 grain Nosler Partitions @2900 FPS exclusively. Both rifles I had were very accurate. One was a custom on a post 64 CRF win Mod 70 Echols Legend stock and the other a Dakota Arms Safari Grade both with 25” barrels. Both .340’s weighed around 10 1/2 lbs with their 30mm 1.5-6X42 mm scopes. Now for elk , moose and larger antelope I user lighter weight 300 Mags, they are lighter and recoil less.

Recoil is a funny thing. My 300wby and 340wby had identical factory stocks. I much preferred the recoil of the 340—it was more of a heavy push.

Looks like a great load. I’d be worried about how they opened up on deer if I found the need to so use it.

I think the TTSXs are pretty good for opening up down to around 2,000 fps or less. It's coming out of the barrel at 3,140 fps. I think it would do swell on deer.

It can kill melons: https://i.imgur.com/xMUu4AG.mp4

If it will blow up a melon, it will open up on a deer.

Have both. Load the 7mm as a long range Deer rifle (168 ABLR M700) for which it really may be one of the best & the 300 Win as an old school all arounder with a 180gr Partition (1966 M700 accurized but looks original) After shooting lots of stuff they kill about the same but the optic & rifle setups favor each purpose. I kinda like having both and would have a hard time determining which is better.

If I was hiking mountains for sheep, the last thing I would want to carry is the weight of a long action magnum rifle.

The difference in weight can be made up with the stock. No biggie. Edk

My 7mm RM weighs 7# with a 2.5-10x42 30mm Swarovski. I’d shot enough stuff with a .300 WM that I didn’t want to stand behind that rifle anymore. My elk got just as dead as the .300WM and .338WM elk on the meat pole and the deer didn’t run away either. As you get older, you will appreciate lighter recoil and less weight.

I see it’s been stated elsewhere in this thread as to the effective use of SA 6.5mm, 7mm and 7.62mm. I for one subscribe as to not needing magnum cartridges for the game listed. If the SA is not your thing, and I know it sounds rather boring, but the 30-06 with today’s bullet technology will easily dispatch at very long range all critters big and small. 130, 150, 165, 180, 200, 212, and 220 grain bullets offer quite the selection for whatever your needs may be using the 30-06. Velocities will range between 3,350 fps down to 2,400 fps from those bullet weights. Hard to find that kind of versatility in a standard cartridge with 1-10 twist and its about 120 years old, so it’s well proven.

The .264 Win. Mag. Westerner was invented to be the perfect flat trajectory all arounder for western game in 1958. And then, along came the 7mm Rem Mag in 1962 and blew the established western cartridge out of the market. That says a lot about competition of the flat shooting rounds.

The .300 has not yet blown the 7 mag out of the market, but scope evolution seems to have reduced the popularity of flat shooting trajectories.

I stilll like 7 mag because they are good in the wind and don't kick too much.

We are shooting the 175g LRAB out of 26" 7 Mags with R#26 and 215's at 3050 fps. This is one heck of a good killing bullet!

That's a great combo, nothing much else to want for there!

With today’s powders, bullets and even over the counter ammo you could easily use a 30-06 Springfield or 308 WCF on the game listed with a well placed shot.

You must have tried them both..pick the one you like/shoot best. Both good choices, and you can find ammo for either most everywhere, normally.

Rifles: i like your choices, I would look at Tikkas and Kimbers as well.

First, I would get an '06 before any .30 magnum. Especially for the mix you list. Rather than stretching a .30 Magnum across deer, sheep, elk and moose I would get two rifles.

Second,if I wanted a common .30 Magnum I would get a .300 Weatherby . I have one and a .308 Norma Mag and they are both much easier to load for than my friend's .300 Wins. I don't use either of those much. I much prefer my .338.

I personally don't care for the .300 Win Mag. I don't like the short neck design, I find the recoil unnecessarily sharp and the rifles weigh more than I like for most of the deer and elk country I hunt, not to speak of sheep.

Elk - I use .308 Win, .30-06 and .338 Win Mag, Sheep - I used an '06 with 180 gr NPT bullets. Moose - Never shot a moose. Oddly, I bought a .338 to do that but haven't made it there, the .338 seemed a better choice if I tripped over a bear too..

Excellent post. I totally concur.

I" personally don't care for the .300 Win Mag. I don't like the short neck design, I find the recoil unnecessarily sharp and the rifles weigh more than I like for most of the deer and elk country I hunt, not to speak of sheep."

Why does a 300 WM weigh more than a rifle in 300 Wby or 308. Norma? . I would think that they are nearly the same. I have been handloading for the 300WM for several decades and have not found it any harder to load for than a 300B or 7mm RM

Not fond of either one. Make mine a Weatherby flavor in either caliber. BTDT

If I go Weatherby it will be .340 wby

Tikka 300 Win Mag and be done with it.

What Stray Horse said.. I have a nice .340, but use it very little.. I would choose a .300 over it any time.. If I want more and .30 cal.. The .375 H & H is next...

WOW find a lot to disagree with on this post.......!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
First nothing wrong with a 30 Magnum...........
Second in what you call a common 30 Magnum a 300 Weatherby and a 308 Norma Mag how are they easier to reload for than a 300WM ??????????
pretty much same O same O, unless you have a unicorn hypothesis you need to make us aware of ?????????????

Short neck and unnecessary recoil ?????????!!!!!!!!!!!!..........are you kidding me, the weatherby has a several grain advantage in powder capacity AKA more recoil

Spot On!!

Two Considerations: All 300s DON'T weigh the same.

More weight = less felt recoil / Less weight = more felt recoil

All stocks DON'T fit everyone ! Stock fit or UNfit can make a WORLD of diff.

Jerry

I wish that I would have had a video of my son’s face the first time that he touched off his new .300 Weatherby Magnum. If there was ever a “What the hell did I just buy?” look, that was it. A newer .270 didn’t take long to replace it.

^^^^ Yep

That’s how I bought a like new .300 Wby Mark V at a bargain. Only fired twice by original owner. Judging by how the Leupold 3-9x40 was mounted, he/she/it probably needed a few stitches too. LOL!

P. S. A friend of mine who is a pretty stout fellow and an experienced rifleman said his Tikka T3 .300 WSM was the worst recoiling rifle he has ever owned. He finally put on a heavy laminate stock and added weight to tame it somewhat.

Recoil wasn't so bad with my .300wm. Killed my first deer with it. Only 7 mag I ever shot kicked worse.

Kimber Montana 280 AI with 145 LRX.

What was the question again?

With today’s bullets the paradigm has shifted the landscape of game calibers significantly downward.
My Sako 338WM may just become a 7mm RM.
As for recoil the 300 vs 7 mag in identical rifles, there is a recognizable increase with the 300.
Less recoil is never bad.
Less recoil makes a rifle easier to shoot.
Everyone has their personal favorites including me. As I get older my 338 has less appeal and the 7mm RM has a very good chance of replacing it. The 300 WM? Not likely.

I’m probably saying the same things others have said, but I would recommend shooting rifles in those calibers before buying one, if you have never fired those calibers. To me a 7 mag kicks noticeably less than a 300 win mag. I’ve owned and shot 300 win mags, 300wby’s and a few 300wsm and 7mm rem mags. They all killed everything they were ever pointed at. Ive killed far far more game with a 308 than anything else and it is by far more gentle to shoot than either of the two you mentioned and weighs much much less. With today’s bullets Cartridges that were once considered marginal for big tough beasts are more than adequate. I’ll take a light weigh AND light recoiling rifle over a big heavy and hard kicking rifle almost always. But of the two you mentioned I believe I’d go with the 7 mag. It (to me) kicks less, is easier to shoot accurately and is fully capable of cleanly taking the animals you listed. Good luck.

A fast twist 7 mag is an option for me.