Troops: Just a FYI thing. I snapped a couple of photos of some pronghorn yesterday and thought they might be a good illustration of 1 aspect of trophy quality. Both are looking a little rough as they have not completely slicked off yet. One feature I search for while hunting is a buck whose prongs exit the main stem well above the ears. And these guys seem to be a good example.

I would guess the two animals below exhibit about the same horn length (each being about 2 x ear length) The left animal's prongs are well above the tips of his ears. Measures from the base, first, and second quarters will likely capture more mass and score much better than the right most buck.

The right animal will score well at the base and 2nd quarters, but not have much mass contribution at the 3rd quarter. Again, his prongs exit the main stems well below the tips of his ears.


Take care and good luck in the coming draws and seasons, 1Minute

Left one is a shooter in my book. I always struggle with the length, I am guessing that left one at close to 15" and the right one at 14"?

Nice photos. The buck on the right sure is a pretty one. I think they are roughly the same length, 14". It's really a crap shoot to attempt to judge score on a pronghorn from one angle, as estimating mass takes more of a look, and mass is what makes them score more than anything else. If I had to make a guess, I'd give the rightmost buck a little higher score in the 74" range. The one on the left might be better if he's got pipes on the bottom, but typically the lower horn on a goat is oval and you are likely looking at his most massive dimension, which isn't that big. The buck on the right wins everywhere, from the looks of it, with exception to the top 2 circumference measurements and they aren't that far in difference. I can't wait to get out and start looking at antelope..

Check this one out.

That is one of the perks of living in Boz Angelas. I'd be in a truck for 3 hours before I even started to see goats...

But then I see far fewer BMWs than you

Ooooohh.

I'd shoot him and not even think twice

Here's another one to judge, but to make it easier, 2 photos of him. Don't mind his weenie.

Dude, thats gotta be photoshopped... NO WAY is his weiner that small

I'd have to say that one's about 17", 82" gross. Great buck for sure.

I think the top two would barely make 14" if they do. This last picture is likely 16-16.5". I have been disapointed a few times by drastically over judging horn length on these buggers.

Greehorn: I'd still lean toward putting a higher score on the leftmost of the two due mostly to the measure of the second and 3rd quarters. Here is a second almost profile image of the right side animal. The second and third quarters on this animal add little to his score. The second quarter is probably just above the prong. Actually I don't think either of these critters would make book, I just posted the images as an example.

Several years ago a local harvested a 17 inch length pronghorn that couldn't make book. All his mass was beneath the ears even though he had extremely tall horns.

With things like pronghorn and sheep, one garners more points from mass (circumference)than horn length. Broomed bighorn can score way up the chart compared to a non broomed animal with more length.

Greenhorn that is one hell of a buck. I would take an animal like that all day long. I have a thing for the bucks with the spreads.

I'm going to downgrade my score guess on the top 2 bucks based on that last profile. I still think they score about the same, but will be closer to 70. Both being just short of 14" the left most has slightly better mass above the prong, but a slightly weaker prong. Just my guess.

here's another live one.. had pipes (heavy circular horns instead of oval) and scored much higher than I expected it would.

Couple quick ways to calibrate the overall size of a pronghorn is to compare the spread of the eyeball to the breadth of the horn. It's a great way to get a feel for how massive a buck's horn is. Another quick check is to compare the length of horn to the length of the muzzle. Of course it's easy when their horns lay straight down along the front of the head..

This one has a horn shape similar to the one on the top left, but notice the difference in how the eyeball to horn breadth and the overall length of horn compared to muzzle is. They are tough to judge, no doubt and I've seen ground shrinkage a lot.

I've seen that before, really tall bucks that lack mass and prong. Pretty good example of what you are talking about is the stubby looking thing I posted all the live shots of above. 14 inches at best and a very high scoring boone and crockett pronghorn. It's one of the coolest bucks I've seen. Give him 14 length, 7.5 on the bottom two, 4.25 and 3.25 above the prong, and a 6 on the prong. Those ain't gifts either.. add em up.

This one goes 13 7/8" on both sides and is 70 6/8" just for reference.

I'm feeling the need to go look at some antelope..

Here's 2 16" bucks that didn't quite squeak into the B&C awards book..

Here's a 14 incher


That grew the following year into a 16 incher but lost some amazing bottom mass and didn't squeak in.. nobody was complaining though..

I do like those big white tips on that top right buck though.. real pretty animal and nice photo of him.

17 and no mass.. didn't make it. Click on this to see video of the buck..

Claw Buck

Keep em coming guys!! I put in for a red desert tag this year and I'm trying to practice judging these boogers.

Here's a dandy, but crappy photo of him.

This one's supposedly 14.5". YMMV......

Here's a crummy photo of a real nice buck from 2007. I found him in the summer of 2008 and his right horn was stunted past the prong. He's on the downhill slide, looked about like this for 3 years.. solid 16+ with unique shape..

Scoutin: My suggestion is to get out and look at a bunch of pronghorn with the best glass one can afford. Eventually the truly large one's will bring out the "holy moly" comment, and I've seen but not taken any that fill that bill.

We (Oregon) do not come even close to Wyoming in pronghorn numbers, as your state supports fully 80% of the world population. The biggest error I see is that folks are inclined to equate horn length with a high score. Mass over as much length as possible will buy one many more points. If the prongs are high enough up the stem to fall in the 3rd quarter circumference measure then one really scores big time.

Here's one the wife took about 3 years ago. Length is only about 14 3/4's and we've not done the rest of the measurements. Notice that the mass only reaches about as high as the tips of its ears. She's has two on the wall, and both are larger than my single. Every one is unique, however, and rates as a tropy in my book Takes us about 11 to 12 years to score a tag in Oregon.

last year i almost shot a buck with 4 or 5" horns that curled over his eyes. Thankfully i didn't. I found this retarded thing later. So it's my priority to see if the other one grew a foot or so this year.

I remember the crazy devil buck. The last pic is great.

I'm gonna cry if I don't draw this year.

yeah if yah can get out and look a bunch now and then pretty soon yah get a pretty good idea on whats small, whats average and whats a "holy moly" saw half a "holy moly" last fall.....the left side was huge but the right side was broke off or stunted below where the prong should have been.....had i been able to sneak up on him i still woulda shot him....bet the one side was near 16"....maybe a lil better.....

Somehow I just know that I won't draw a tag again this year either I'm about ready to just give up on rifle tags for goats and start hitting it middle of September with a bow and decoy...

Definately see a lot more gooduns during rut. I swear the bastids hide in a gopher hole once rifle season kicks off.

I killed this buck last season in NM. A shade over 16", gross 82" and some change....

[img][IMG]http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t32/JGrimes_2007/100_3225-1.jpg[/img][/img]


I posted this on another thread, but my son's buck was 17 1/2" and grossed 86"+.......

[img][IMG]http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t32/JGrimes_2007/NMAntelopeHunt003.jpg[/img][/img]

They are tough for me to judge also. I don't spend a whole lot of time in antelope country.

I would say you're dead on Joe. I too used to misjudge speed goats, after you shoot and measure you're dumbfounded. once I started guiding that was another story, I knew by then, and even surprised the clients.

took my dad out last year to shoot one on a friends ranch. dad knew it was tall, I said shooter he downed him. we estimated him and I was even off by 1/2 an inch. I thought it would go 16" max, but it has just a hair under 15 1/2"
I'll try to get a pic posted of him

OneMinte -

I had an antelope measured up for the book two years ago. The buck went 84.5" but there was a little question because there was a 2nd prong growing right where the 2nd quarter measurement was to be. When the official ruling came down from the main office of Boone and Crocket, the measurement was moved several inched up, and put above the main prong. Their statement said that the 2nd quarter had to be measured above the prong. I disagreed but didnt pursue it. I know what the animal measures, and he came out a solid 80" even after what I percieve to be an error on their part. Nothing in the measurement rules states that it must be measured above the prong. I was just wondering if you had ever run into that situation.

I am guessing the first two bucks at right about 13". Its always the curl that gets me. You have to look at them long enough to get the curl figured out.

Tony Grimmett, AZ antelope guide, has a good video specifically on scoring antelope called "Size is Everything." Obviously some nice antelope are shown.

RR

Oakster: Went to the B&C site and lifted this out of their pronghorn scoring sheet. Measurement C is length.




Hope this helps.

Length is overrated, mass and cutters are critical.

I love 'em with the classic heart shape and deep curl on the tips.

Been watching/hunting those suckers since I was a little kid and they can still give a guy fits judging the whole package.
Great fun!

Yes, they did make a mistake then. The measurement they moved up over the prong was D2, which is the second of the three quarter measurements.

B&C has some pretty stupid rules. This is just one of them IMO.

It's pretty straight forward in that there's always 2 measurements above and 2 below the prong. Oak, you're saying they took only 1 mass measurement below the prong and it still scored 80? Would really like to see a photo of that one, as it must be absolutey huge and freaky looking.

Nice job there Greenhorn in improving the gene pool!

Actually , that is a pretty cool one

Hemi

JG, why is your son sleeping with a fine buck like that in his hands? I just don't get these young sprouts. They just don't get excited about anything but nintendo...LOL. Those are some dandy bucks.

As far as goats go, look for mass compared to the eyeball like Greenhorn said. Mass FAR outweighs a couple of inches in tine length. Tine length is nice to talk about, but give me the "fatty" bucks with mass. They look so much better and don't shrink on the wall quite so bad.

I laugh at all the hunters I run into every year that swear they have seen 20-30 16" inch bucks. Of course, every one of them is a "Booner"! I have measured a pile of "16 inch bucks" that barely squeaked past 12". The hunter always says, "I must have hit the wrong buck. The one I shot at was over 16 inches." Kind of like every bull is a 350 6x6 and every 4x4 buck is 30 inches. No species on the planet is more misjudged and experiences more ground shrinkage than speed goats.

I killed a nice 15" buck a couple of years ago that netted 75". While hunting for him I turned down a couple of nice bucks at first light. A couple of punk kids out on their first hunt knocked the bucks over that I had just passed on. I just had to go check them out....right? One went 16" with a score of 80. The other one was just under 17" with a score of 81! I really kicked myself! It must have been the low light...no wait, the sun was in my eyes. Yeah, that is what fouled me up ;o) Neither of those bucks looked to be over 14.5 inches, nor would I have thought they would have scored over 74. Goats are tough to judge, unless you see a real gagger, then you can't get the gun on them fast enough. Few critters are more fun to hunt! Flinch

Flinch, you speak the truth my friend! My son is not real excitable, those goats are a blast to hunt, and I can't judge them real well after seeing lots of 'em.

Here's a heart-shaped one for you.

That's a perty one! Love the hearts! Flinch

That's indeed a nice shape. A couple of years ago I was returning from the range near dusk when I spotted one similarly shaped about 15 yards off the road. When I stopped for a look, its horns were precisely framing a full moon. Would have paid big $$$ if someone could have beamed me a camera at that moment.

1minute, that would have made a great pic.


That's a nice one Oak, do I see a little ivory on the tips?

I just compiled the info to put my 2008 Buck in the P&Y book - not a huge buck but a nice one. These 70" variety are pretty common. When you see an 80"+ buck you'll know it, kind of like seeing at 30" Mulie - you go instantly from "that's a nice buck" to "oh my god, look at that!"



He's missing about an inch from the right prong which doesn't help the score any, but gives him character.

Nice bucks!

As for heart shapes, here's my most heart shaped, or most curl on top anyway. Bad angle, will have to see if I can find a front view. I smokepoled him and think he scored 81 gross. 16+ length.

here's a couple other heart shaped bucks I arrowed, but more of a wide heart..
top one is the live buck i posted earlier, 16 3/4 length and grossed 83+. netted into the all time B&C book, and is one of the top P&Y bucks recorded from Montana.

Here's another heart shaped buck, 14" heavy and certainly a P&Y record buck, but I never had it measured..

But no doubt this is my favorite and he also scored over 80" gross, one of the better bucks arrowed in MT ever, and certainly the coolest I've taken.

Does this have a heart shape?


How about this one? the stupidest thing I ever did was not shoot an arrow at this buck...

I also like the freaks.
The TV buck is freaky deaky!

Here's a front shot of that one ..


I've actually always been a sucker for pretty prongs.. and like this one. 16" and prongs.. booner he's the live one above, crappy photo with the buck facing to the left

Oak - that is a beauty. This one is only 14.5", but with the huge prongs and really nice mass, he was afforded a free ride from WY to MT.

As the cheerleaders of my favorite football team say, "Give me a V!" This guy is a "V."

Still not sure what to name this guy.

How about the incredible HULK..

I heard that one was referred to as "lumpy".. don't exactly know why though.

Great goats all around!

Here's a broken heart.......

Some beautiful goats gentlemen!

A hearty Amen to that!