I know, I know, here we go again. I know that many of these threads over lap and there is alot of cross over, but Im going to ask the question anyway. As a deer rifle with comprable loadings I would like to hear others opinions and field experience with these two rounds. Spicificly balistics, long range capablities and terminal preformance.

Thanks

Trouble maker.

there is only one clear difference between the 7/08 and the 308. one is .284 and the other is .308. other than that, there is no significant difference.

Were it a Gunfight.

I'd want the other guy toting a 308...............

For 98% of your deer hunting, there is no need to look any farther than a 7mm-08. If your deer hunting involves glassing up animals and shooting at 400+ yards, you might want something else, but not necessarily a .308. Realistically, If you're a .30 caliber guy, you will choose the .308. If you don't think that anything less than a .30 caliber bullet will bounce off of a whitetail or mule deer, you will be very happy with a 7mm-08.

Last fall my daughter bagged her first big game. A real nice 4x mulie at about 250 yards. Nice broadside shot. Double lung and passed through. The load was 150 gr. sierra gamekings over 38 gr. of rl 15.

But you ask anyway... Is this really how your parents raised you?

308 hands down..... 7-08's are good fer ground hogs and possums but not deer

I have never owned a .308. I got my first 7-08 when they were still wildcats. I bought it in order to get a cartridge that was superior to the .243 and give me good accuracy. Something I could reload for. The 7-08 did it all in spades. I've now own several and everyone of them has been accurate from the beginning. From what I read, the .308 will do the same thing. I don't know.

How about we start all over again and re-name it the .243-o8? Sounds a little weaker that way.

Not a joke, meant to be serious:

Think of each cartridge as a doughnut. One has a bigger hole, the other a lightly smaller hole. They are both going to taste the same. Just pick the doughnut that looks best to you.

Your markmanship or riflemanship, and bullet chosen is much more important than comparing either of the two cartridges you mentioned.

Here is a ballpark I pulled off a web. Out of courtesy to Rick B. (campfire owner), not mentioning where it came from. If you search the 24 Hr. campfire archives you can undoubtedly get some comparison there also.

Compare 7mm-08 handloads to Factory Loads


Cartridge MV-FPS 300 YD(200 Zero) 400 YD(200 Zero) 400 YD Energy
7mm-08 Handload 120 GR BT 3100 -6.4 -18.8 1300
7mm-08 Handload 130 GR BT 3040 -6.7 -19.6 1350
7mm-08 Handload 140 GR BT 2950 -6.8 -19.8 1510
7mm-08 Handload 145 GR BT 2900 -7.1 -20.4 1540
7mm-08 Handload 160 GR BT 2700 -8.1 -23.2 1546
25-06Rem Rem PSPCL 120GR 2990 -7.5 -22 1100
264 MAG Rem PSPCL 140GR 3030 -7.2 -20.8 1389
270 WIN Rem BP 130 GR 3060 -7.1 -20.6 1285
270 WIN Rem BT 140 GR 2960 -7.2 -20.7 1465
270 WIN Rem SPCL 150 GR 2850 -9.7 -29.2 872
7mm MAG Rem PSPCL 150 GR 3110 -7.0 -20.5 1448
7mm MAG Rem BT 165 GR 2900 -7.5 -21.4 1689
30-06 SPR Rem BP 150 GR 2910 -8.0 -23.3 1298
30-06 SPR Rem BT 165 GR 2800 -8.2 -23.6 1500
300 MAG REM PSPCL 180G 2960 -7.3 -20.9 1859
338 MAG REM PSP 225G 2785 -9.1 -26.7 1633

And, 400 yds. is a long shot on a game animal. The 500+ yard stuff is for seriously, studious, very practiced riflemen.

If it is specifically ballistics your are after, suggest picking up a Win. or Rem. ammunition catalog, or download from the online search. One caveat there: those published velocities may or may not be on the money. But you can get a ballistic comparison.

You shoulda stayed with the humor..............

Yep, most of these a waste of time.........mine, !

With "data" like that..............

The 308 is better . . . .

Team Savage Takes National Title, Breaks 1,000-yard Record

Link: http://www.savagearms.com/news/article/?id=2K5nTzegQ

This list of long-range events Team Savage has won recently is getting almost as long as the distances they shoot at.

They recently added the 2010 F T/R National Championship to that list by taking the team competition in grand fashion. The won both the 600 and 1,000 yard events, establishing an new 1,000-yard record of 778-21X.

Darrell Buell of Damascus, OR; John Weil of Welches, OR; Monte Milanuk of Wenatchee WA and Stan Pate of Milwaukie, OR made the trip to Sacramento, CA to represent Savage Arms. The competition featured some of the best talent and most expensive custom rifles from around the Country. But, once again, those expensive custom guns were no match for four skilled marksmen armed with stock Savage Model 12 rifles.

"We continue to be thrilled with the winning results from Team Savage. It says a lot about them and it says a lot about the rifles," Savage VP of Sales & Marketing Brian Herrick said. "We're not trying to tell anybody that they can just buy a Savage and shoot like Darrell, John, Monte and Stan, but it should be fairly obvious by now that shooting stock Savage rifles isn't holding these guys back at all."

Dude, your just stirring the pot...both are better...depending...

Admittedly the 308 is a GREAT choice...(when ONLY 308's are in the race)..........

I'll check back in 150 pages when the fishin pics start...

Ingwe

I've 308's that are good as 308's get and of course 7-08's built of a like blueprint.

The 308's is at it's "best",when things are Sanctioned so that only it can be used.

Fairly telling,in and of itself.............

If they'd have been quick out of the blocks with the .260 or 7-08, the .243 would be just another forgotten cartridge.

Curb your tongue!!!




Ingwe

I really didnt mean to stir the pot as wanted to get info from those that have used or have seen both the in field or on the range VS pouring over balistics tables and published information.

inland...a year or so ago there was a 7mm-08 vs. .308 thread that went 350 pages IIRC....

lotsa pizzing matches, hijacks and entertainment!

Nothing resolved.....just the title of the OP is enough to get us off and running!!!

Ingwe

FWIW, those supposedly "stock" Savages come out of the Savage custom shop. They ain't the same thing they hand you acrost the counter at Walmart.

Kinda like the NASCAR types saying "hee hee, me'n Dale drive the same car".

Exactly... And then Larry the UberTroll came back a few more times. That didn't help either.



I've yet to see a 7-08 with a 22" tube launch a 162 AMAX much over 2680 FPS. Even then, their advertised .625 BC is a friggin JOKE. At 7-08 speeds, when you do the math backwards its more like .520ish.

Even if it did break into the 2800's, according to JB, and other REAL ballisticians, if you applied the same amount of pressure to a 308, it'd still go faster...

So in the end, there still isn't a [bleep] animal on the planet that'd know the difference.



The FACT is, you CAN run a 165 grain bullet out of a 308 (with a BC in the .5's) at 2750ish FPS, WITHOUT gimmicks, excessive pressure, or excessive drama.

Well, that does make it simpler.

I like the .308 best, but it's a private thing!

were it a gunfight, i'd take this 308

http://www.highreadytactical.com/catalog/product.asp?pid=66985&ret_id=943830

- Caliber: 308 Win./7.26x51mm
- Magazine Capacity: 20
- Barrel Length: 20"
- Overall Length: 41 1/2"
- Length of Pull: 14 1/8"
- Weight: 10 lbs.
- Rate of Twist: 1 turn in 12 "
- Operating Principle: Gas-operated autoloader
- Magazine Type: Detachable Box Magazine
- Stock Finish: Matte Black
- Stock / Grip: Ergonomic adjustable synthetic stock
- Additional Description: Fluted Barrel, Multiple MIL-STD 1913 rails


and they can have a bolt action 7mm-08

Maybe not but you will soon be renamed "Mr. Maytag" for your agitating ways!!!

Were it a Gunfight.

I'd want the other guy toting a 308...............

Damara stole my thunder.

There are many, many , many, people who thought a .308 was nothing to fear. Right up to the point that they took a 175 grain "smoke check" round at @ 1000 yards in their chest.

Both are exceptional game rounds capable of very good accuracy and kill well beyond their size. But do not confuse the issue. The 7mm/08 man does not want to take lightly a competant combatant with a good .308. You will loose.

As far as game rounds go it is simple,

Like smaller lighter bullets and less recoil, choose the 7mm/08.

Like to be able to push a larger caliber heavier bullet
choose the .308.

I like both but chose the .308 early on and do not regret my decision. It has kept the freezer full and the bloodtrails short.

When it came time to pick a 7mm rifle I skipped the 7mm/08 as I already had a very good .308.

Now if you want to pick nits...I picked the 7x57. A round that obviously is much better, much more powerful, much prettier, much more efficient, much sexier, and just plain classier than the lowly orphaned bastard child of my beloved .308.

Time to break out the popcorn.

I might try this in a fight . . . . .

You got me chuckling, thanks! So I might as well add too where this thread is headed:

If American riflemen and gunwriters hadn't been so hard at work overstuffing their egos, like some do cartridge cases, and Remington's think tank and marketing dept. had a better approach, we might have the 6mm instead of that other bastard child, the .243 Win.

Douche Adair,

I always get a kick out of your contrived nonsense and your F&S "findings". One couldn't begin to fathom the incredible things you've never seen,done and couldn't understand,which only reliably adds to the comedy.

The Do-nothing Gang is always eager to expound upon how little they know,as extrapolated by how little they shoot and that never ain't not a riot. It'd be difficult to write comedy on that level. How to make it even more hilarious? Ask The Gang to flaunt some of their collective "results",frosted by their "knowledge" and "experience". That'd be funny in both Theory and Application,which do define sublime.

Had you even ever SEEN a 162 and set it along a 165/8,you'd then have an inkling to the humor associated. Much to your chagrin,I enjoy the luxury of not being forced to guess and admittedly...it ain't a bad way to roll. Though it is something you'll never know or even experience,due to a series of incredibly humorous factoids...starting with your IQ.

For the Krunchenticker Krowd,I'd greedily take a 7-08 MBR over a 308 version of same. Twist it 9",chrome line the tube and get outta the way.

You may now return to your Fantasies,replete with the realities associated with their "results".

So laffin'...................

Why is it the less difference between cartridge/scopes/running shoes the more debate there is about them? I'll bet slick Madison Avenue marketing types have a term for this.

Yeah, I am perpetually amazed that our ancestors were able to win 2 World Wars and kill so much big game around the world with the lowly .30-06 and several lesser rounds.

.................There are a few differences that can be nit-picked and debated, but either one is excellent for deer and even larger game. The 7/08 is not a 7 Rem mag nor a 7 RUM, just like the 308 isn`t a 300 Win or RUM. Not to say that the 7/08 and 308 aren`t capable, but if you see yourself shooting deer "consistently" say beyond 400-500 yards on average (highly unlikely), then imo, you might want to consider more speed with flatter trajectories.

Terminal performances on game between these two, might well rest more so with the bullet choice rather than just the caliber by itself. To really better compare these two in terms of downrange velocities, energy retentions and trajectories, a real good and fun idea, is to find an on-line external ballistics table like the one on the Hornady site assuming it is still operating there.

For both rounds, type in the various bullet weight, the bullet BCs, your est MVs, approx temps, etc and view all the #s. Then whichever #s best suit your hunting needs, situations, terrain, etc the majority of the time, pick that cartridge.

Doing that will get you down to the nut and bolt comparisons between the two.

300 RUM..................end of story!!! LOL!!!

For deer there's no practical difference. If you're in a situation where either cartridge has a perceived advantage over the other, they're both wrong choices. If .308 is too big, you need a varmint cartridge, not a 7mm-08. If 7mm-08 is too small, you need a dedicated heavy game cartridge, not a .308. If the trajectory of the 7mm-08 seems advantageous, you should be shooting a .264 or 7mm mag. For what either does WELL, the other does WELL.

I guess I might lean towards the 7mm-08 for deer only. For general use, I might go towards the .308 .. it's got a little bit of [bleep]-around potential because of some .30 cal bullet options the 7mm does not have an equivalent for. Kinda silly, but I like the speer 110 grain flat nosed JHP and resized .312 (to .308) hollowpoint pistol bullets for whackin' rabbits 'n' so on. Kind of a funny thing to make your deer cartridge choice on.

Tom

I shoot with an open mind and am never not looking for the better way and ballistic performance is always give & take.

That being said,nothing comes closer to the proverbial "Free Lunch"(all take and no give) than the 7-08 and good projectile selection. For conversation,a 22" 7-08 will easily make 2700fps with 162's and alotta folks push them quite a bit harder than that.

That being a given and factoring some Real World scenarios,there really isn't much to wish for,though I of course have on hand far greater capacity chamberings and in a selection of bore diameters. Such things make extrapolations easy and side by each R&D never isn't telling.

That combo will make over 1000 ft lbs of "energy" at sea level in a standard atmosphere,at the 800yd line...for those who concern themselves with such things. It's supersonic to the 1400yd line,for them that savvy. 1K is a sub 29.5MOA ele erector correction and sub 7MOA of 10mph full value wind....with a 1460fps+ arrival speed.

I get it that Douche Adair has never seen or shot the bullet and I never don't not look forward to her reiterating same. Frosts her azz too,that she runs [bleep] riggin' and has gotta guess about all things downrange,whether they comeups or terminal connections.

Funny to let a naysayer settle crosshairs,dope the erector and blow their own minds via sound tackle. My 22" #6 Lilja 7-08,is a great conversion piece,for them folks especially. I prefer my lighter/handier builds so chambered,but increasing mass allows a boob a better chance of breaking a good poke...thus it's impetus in the equation.



My 23" MTU contoured Mike Rock 11.25" 5R M852 chambered 308,is a solid build(gross understatement) and is also a machine far more capable than anything Douche has seen. Ballistics wise,she cain't hang.



I've some Garand familiarity and will happily touch base there too,for them brazen enough.



My kids love it.



Much looking forward to the next installment by The Do-nothing Gang...................

"Which is better 7mm-08 vs .308?"

I don't know. Guess that is why I own both.

Slopshot,

You are welcome.

""If American riflemen and gunwriters hadn't been so hard at work overstuffing their egos, like some do cartridge cases, and Remington's think tank and marketing dept. had a better approach, we might have the 6mm instead of that other bastard child, the .243 Win.""

And I agree totaly on this. If only Bob Millek (SP) had been on their staff!! and TSX's had been in exhistance, ofcourse.

Fixt.

I fixed it better...

ingwe

I prefer the 7x57 over the 308 for it's advantages. I would have a 7-08 but neither of the rifles I owned in that caliber shot well enough to please me, so I got rid of them.

The [bleep] has spoken....


Larry... I dunno what to tell you. In Montana, if you really want too, you can shoot B tags by the trailerfull.

Here was one day two falls ago (all my tags BTW, my brother had his in the back of the truck)


It humors me when douchebags like you pretend that [bleep] of your level are the only ones that know anything about killing game. I remember one day last fall at grampa's farm (Flathead Riverbottom) I filled 5 170B tags in about 30 minutes with a 308.

Seriously.... How many critters have you shot and ate in your hunting "career" ??

Douche,

It takes far more than a wagon full of tits,for a 308 to hang with a 7-08. Very good call to refrain load particulars and just cry instead,if only as per your usual.

In fact,few do it better.

Congratulations?!!?...............

[bleep],

I run a 165 grain Speer HPBT at an OAL of 2.810 over 45.5 grains of Varget in WW brass with plain vanilla Federal spark plugs for a MV of 2742 AVG with an ES of 9. My primer pockets are still nice and tight on loading #7 Now thats an ACTUAL big game bullet with a BC of .520...

Now other than you're mythical .625 BC AMAX, I really don't see any edge with a 7-08. Now if you want lots of really high BC bullets with a flat trajectory, you keep necking down until you hit 6.5.

BTW, I shot quite a few AMAXs in a 24" tubed 7-08. In reality, I'd say that BC is a whole lot closer to .550. It might go .625 out of an STW, but it ain't all that and a twinkie at a fictional 2700.

Oh, and way to not answer a question...


Here, I'll start....


I've whacked about 150-175 critters in Montana in the 20 years I've been hunting... But yet, I know nothing.

Actually Bryan Litz has confirmed the BC of the 162 Amax. Above 2500fps it is .614, above 3000fps it is .633. The G7 BC of the 162 Amax is .307 which is significantly better than anything of similar weight in 30cal.

Rath

Douche finds herself in a quandry often,which is a never ending series of blatant lies,fueled by her angst and sprinkled copiously with gross inexperience. Though in fairness,the melding doesn't ever not interject incredible amounts of humor...all of which is oblivious to her feeble perceptors. Quite a blueprint there!

Much to her chagrin,the .625BC 162 is a known commodity and exceptional upon all levels(in it's current form). I get a kick outta her talking out her azz,as the mood swings and incredible ineptuitude,never don't delight.


Can't slight her penchant to Dream...it's ALL she's got and a gal's gotta have something..............

I can't believe you guys can find reasons to insult and bash each other over the difference between the 7-08 and the .308. What's next for you guys, .30-30 vs. .32 Special?

moosemike, you really don't get it. This has nothing to do with the 7-08 .308 debate. This is all about Larry. Everything is about Larry. The universe, of course, centers around Larry, so this is no surprise.

Oh, doood....30-30 is the ONLY way to go....


.32 special suck....




Ingwe

Which one is Larry?

IO...

Exactamundo.

Ingwe

Got it. Thanks.

I know I'd feel better if someone would post a picture of a scantily clad gorgeous babe ( kind of an anti-angst measure...)

Me too. But NO LIPSTICK. Larry doesn't like lipstick.

The .32 Win. Special - Was it all about 'Blood Money' ?

LINK: http://www.winchestermysteryhouse.com/

Edit: Forgot that damn smiley!

Ask and ye shall receive.
Laura...

I like that picture. Don't know/care what's better caliber but I do know I'd score more with an open sighted 30-30 than bigstick could with his arsenal of guns/knives/fellow ballsuckers. Fact.

She wants me. I can tell by the look on her face.

Big Redhead
Good picture. I am beginning to feel un-angsted already.

Good, good. Now take two shots of Laura and call me in the morning...

Good lord another American Sniper Rifle thread in the making. And already a lady has been posted. Well in a nut shell you would have to shoot a lot of game over a very long time say 50 years or so and in the end you would not be able to tell the difference. And you could throw in the 260 or 6.5 x 55 or 7 x 57 the last two are ones I shoot and hunt with a lot. It all boils down to nothing. But this is August and there is nothing much to do, its hot so the trout fishing is slow, and the water is thin. In a few more weeks unless you are up in Alaska, hunting seasons will start. And we will all have something to look forward to do. In about 6 weeks I will be able to go shoot geese. And all I care about right now is having enough shotgun shells on hand.

An impressive amount of whining for sure and an even more impressive display of sheer cluelessness,to frost that cake. But alas...the two go hand in hand and they're the only moves dolts can make.

The Supersoaker Crowd certainly is entertaining!..............

I am joining in kind of late, but isn't this one of those 6 is better than a half dozen kind of arguments?

Nope, Momma said tha 308 is better

Fuggin' rollin



I'm still waiting to hear how many critters Larry has actually made die with a rifle.... I heard a lot of insults, but no "facts"



[bleep], speaking of bows, I've punched at least 20 tags with a recurve. It doesn't even have sights, let alone fuggin' turrets... But I apparently would know more about how to whack [bleep] if I owned a 7-08 [WTF?]

Douche,

Your vivid imagination is something to behold,though surprisingly it don't enhance your "results". THAT is comedy!

As per always,very good call to refrain anything regarding boolits and terminal affects...as it always gets ugly for you,even in passing.

Gotta admit,your 162 "knowledge" is PRICELESS!...............

[quote=DanAdair
I'm still waiting to hear how many critters Larry has actually made die with a rifle.... I heard a lot of insults, but no "facts"



[/quote]




Still waiting bitch....


Go teabag your groupies on assrag and let the grown-ups talk about rifles and hunting.





I know that its hard, with an ego your size, to admit that there are guys on this site that have killed more game than you.

And no, I didn't take a picutre everytime I whacked a doe.

Hang a pic of you in that boonie hat again.....

It always reminds me of...

Douche,

Why is it when asked a simplistic question,in regards to one of your myriad of lies,you default to talking about your fascination with the sexual acts you'd like to perform upon members of the same sex? I'll never understand that one,nor your penchant to dive in well over your head...let alone your thinking that gunning titts in a hayfield is "somethin'".

It'd be hard to slight how well grounded your insecurities are,just as it would the foundation that they are based upon. When your "Trump Card" is a lamentation of not taking a picture of a dead Doe...the humor gets very difficult to top. You take pathetic to new heights. Congratulations?

I'd concede that I've killed more Big Critters in a single favorite hat,than you have in your Do-nothing Life.

Now I admittedly eagerly await your saving pennies for the next 20yrs,so you can venture Alaska for the first time and catch a Humpie "all by yourself",then wax eloquently as only you can...how scraping the bottom of the barrel is "somethin'". Let's fuel your dreams and enable your aspirations.



That'll be enough fodder for you to try and knock another 100 fellas up. As an aside I'm fairly well steeped in extra cameras,shoot me an addy and I'll send you one for free,as I'd hate to miss another Chapter in "Douche Adair's Misadventures From The Hayfield".

Hell...I'll send you a right proper hat too.

Laffin'!...............

Oh yeah.....


Well, I've got a Goldfish....







As long as we're talking about [bleep] that don't matter.

I am impressed with your precognition, but it didn't make it 150 pages

Yep, we got fish pics and a babe pic...I was wrong again...

And oh yeah, we got a nonsensical pizzin match thrown in for good measure...

Ingwe