Probably won't hold a candle to Spike's story, but hopefully you'll see a little bit of what we love to do- BTW, this hunt is just a couple miles from where Spike was hunting. Almost identical terrain, too.


The indistinct shapes on the horizon slowly became shapes recognizable as the hills I was used to hunting during Oregon�s short Elk seasons. Spotting a short finger ridge the night before while looking for a camp for our group, I had hoped to explore this new (to me) area the next morning- opening day.

My son and I drove quietly down a short logging road and parked at the end of the road, not knowing exactly what we would find when we walked out this ridge, but determined to make the most of this opportunity in an area we hadn�t hunted before. We slowly picked our way to the edge of the canyon a couple hundred yards away and looked over what we could barely see in the pre-dawn darkness. We could see clearcuts shining in the darkness, beginning to grow over with the brush and trash species that come up before the replanted trees have a chance to overtake them and limit their growth.

We slowly worked our way to the end of the finger ridge, hoping to find a place to watch the dawn arise over some canyons where the elk might be moving and spotted at first light. What we found was even better than we had hoped. A large canyon ran from right to left as we faced North, with smaller wooded draws running up to near the tops of the hillsides. Most of the rest of the hillsides were large, open meadows of grass, mud, and snow covered areas where the sun hadn�t had a chance to heat the icy patches yet.

The wind was blowing quietly but not enough to make it uncomfortable. It was a little below freezing, but we were well prepared in our wool swiss army pants, polypropolene long johns, Pendleton wool shirts, heavy jackets and hunter orange stocking caps- our most visible nod to safety as there were numerous other hunters in our area. Being comfortable is as important as shooting well in Elk hunting- if you can�t stand to be still you�ll never be around when the elk start moving.

As the sun started up, the hills glowed orange in the early morning cold. Slowly the glow got brighter and worked it�s way down the hillsides opposite us. This has always been my favorite time of day to hunt, as the world seems all new and I get to see a new area for the first time. As the glow continued down the hillsides opposite us, we continued to glass the canyons, draws, and meadows large and small hoping to catch a telltale movement or patch of tawny yellow that would indicate the elk were moving up from the bottom as they have a habit of doing every morning.

Suddenly, out of nowhere we spot a herd of elk coming out of a draw heavily treed in Douglas fir, Ponderosa Pine, and numerous brushy bushes such as vine maple and alder thickets. First five or six elk, then more,. Soon an entire herd is heading into the open and across a meadow, not stopping to eat but acting as if they had a need to get into the heavy woodline ahead of them before the rays of sunshine gave away their presence. Sixteen or seventeen elk is awesome sight at any time, but especially this time of year when they seem to be in their element in their prime. Several branch antlered bulls were easy to pick out, even at the long distance the glasses needed to reach- probably 1200-1500 yards. Too far to tell if there were any spikes in the group- the only ones we had tags to take during this late season.

As the elk disappeared into a heavily wooded saddle, Joe and I try to decide how to best take advantage of the situation, if we can at all. We move down a snowy closed logging road to a point more directly across from where the elk had just disappeared minutes before, hoping they will bed down awhile and then come back out to feed in the heavily grassed meadows. It didn�t look hopeful. In order to get close enough to get in position we would have to cross two large canyons at least 1200 foot deep and the ridges between them. While trying to decide if we were up to it ( you never are, but you try to convince yourself you are no matter what) A good coach like Vince Lombardi would have been good to have right about then. I was having a hard time deciding my 51 year old body would be able to do all that climbing in the short hour or so we would have to take advantage of the elk�s habits. The window closes fast and other hunters might have witnessed the same awesome procession we had just seen.

�Don�t move dad, there�s an elk right there!� my son said excitedly, having the same tendency I have to elevate his voice when excited. I slowly but excitedly started to scan the hillside looking for this wandering elk asking �where is it Joe? I can�t see it.� Joe quietly describes where he sees the elk coming out of the trees just below us but across a canyon. I slowly shoulder my rifle, hoping to see if the elk has anyheadwear that would make it legal game and I�m disappointed by another smoothhead elk. Suddenly, Joe is excited again- �dad, there�s another one� I scan from the first elk to one that is following about 20 feet behind- just now coming out of the trees. Amazingly, it is a spike- legal game for this season.

We look for a way to cut the distance from the 350-400 yards the elk is at to a more managable shooting distance before we are spotted and decide there is now stealthy way to get through the snowberry, vine maple, and other brush between us and the bottom of the canyon by the acre. I am trying to get my pack off and build a rest, but the hill is too steep to allow me to find a place to line up the shot. Joe is excited and not wanting to let this opportunity escape as the elk continue on across the open hillside- soon to enter some more trees and out of our sight.

�Dad, I can hit him from here!�, Joe says. I�m not sure I agree and I�m not even sure I can make the shot with a good rest as I�m still a bit winded from the hike over to this overlook we�ve stumbled upon. We sit down, get in a good shooting position and rest our elbows on our knees for stability to see if we can hold steady enough for what would be a tough shot- a moving elk, 350-400 yards, downhill. Joe decides to count to three so we can shoot at the same time and increase our odds of one of us hitting the elk with a telling shot. This is a habit we�ve gotten into when hunting together and we�ve been successful in using it many times. Claiming who shot the animal has never been as important to us in these situations as putting meat in the freezer so we�ve always been happy for each other just having some success.

At the count of three, as steady as we were going to get, both rifles go off in unison. Joe�s Pre 64 Model 70 300 H&H Improved and my 338 breaking the silence with loud roars. We momentarily lose the elk in our scopes, but quickly gain a sight of the animal again just in time to see him flinch slightly. The cow decides there are safer places to travel and starts to head down hill, the bull thinking this must be a good idea and decides to follow. We both quickly follow up with another shot before the elk disappears into the trees and out of our sight, heading back the way they had come.

We quickly bust through the vine maple, salmonberry, currant and ferns to cut them off if they come out in the open or up our side of the mountain. After a couple hundred yards of our hats getting caught in the tree branches we were running under, tripping on vines and saplings, dropping packs and generally acting like a stumbling old man we come out into a large snow covered meadow. It was 7:30 and the sun had risen enough we could see most of the other hillside clearly- sagebrush, firs, pines and open meadows interspersed- making it difficult to see very much of the mountain at any one time, but enough to see large patches that if the elk were moving we would catch the movement. We move down further to catch them in the lower part of the canyon and slide and slip over a short cliff to another meadow covered in show.

It was time to make a decision- we were being surrounded by trees and brush as we got lower in the canyon and visibility would soon be extremely short, giving all the advantages to the elk. We would need some landmark to determine where we would come out and start our search for a blood trail or anything that would lead us to the elk we hoped to tag. Looking across the canyon for a landmark, I spot something out of place on the opposite hillside. Right in the open, just barely covered by alignment with the top of a large tree growing out of the side of the canyon is our elk! Laying facing away he is moving just barely as though he is trying to get up but can�t quite make it to his feet. To make sure he doesn�t move too far before we can get to him we each shoot once more. Harder this time as we are winded, our hearts are beating hard, and he is still a good 300 yards away. He quiets down, so I decide to go down the canyon and up the other side to find him with Joe guiding me to the spot.

I start down the hillside and out of the small meadow we are standing in and into thick fir forests, leafless undergrowth grabbing at my legs, pack, rifle, and hat every step of the way. I notice immediately that all that interference isn�t really slowing me down much and I realize why- this hill is REALLY steep! Trying to keep my feet under me in the 4-6� of snow and dead logs hidden underneath, I manage to make it to the creek in the bottom with only a couple falls and no major injuries. (nothing that wouldn�t heal after the hunt, at least) Starting up the other side, I hear a shot, then another. Joe�s voice on the radio announces the elk tried to get up and walk but before he had made it a shaky 50 yards Joe had gotten a good rest and shot him, hitting him on the second and causing him to roll at least a couple hundred yards down the mountain and out of sight. Now the job was really going to get harder.

I keep climbing up the hill, hoping Joe will spot me and lead me to the elk. Using elk trails, small ledges, and any other foothold I can find I slowly climb up to where I think the elk should be but Joe can�t spot me. �I must be too low�, I say to myself as I continue climbing. Finally, I call on the radio to see why he can�t spot me as I must be at least as high as the elk was at the time of the last shot. Joe looks around and raises his gaze to realize I am almost to the top of the other hillside, many hundreds of yards above where I needed to be! Landmarks are hard to find when the only time you�ve seen them is across a canyon in early dawn light!

I slowly find my way down with guidance from my son finding our elk wrapped around a small fir tree, his feet tangled in some snowberry bushes and his head downhill in an awkward position. Why do they always do this? I�ve never seen another game animal that has the knack to fall into a more difficult position while dieing! Now the fun part begins! I take a few pictures and guide my son to the elk so we can start the retrieval which is going to be more difficult than I can imagine.

Decisions need to be made as the nearest road behind us on the hill the animal has died on is at least a mile and a half and up and down several very steep hills. This also means we would have to go back to the truck first to get our pack frames. We decide there is no real advantage to this approach and decide to take what we can (heart and liver) and head back to the truck, go to camp and get help from my brothers and nephews, and use the Simpson chainsaw winch to take the elk up to the relatively flat ground where we can handle it. We drag the elk down to the bottom of the canyon next to the creek, trying not to become it�s victim as he tries to get even with us by rolling over us on the way down the hill. Leaving him in a small group of trees we use our engineers tape to mark his location and the route we will take him up the hill with the chainsaw winch rope. This hill is so steep, we are clawing and digging our boot toes into the hillside, grabbing anything that is still alive and growing to keep us from sliding back into the cold snowy creekbed we had just left. We finally make it to the top after what seems like days. It is actually about 11:00 and the day is slipping away.

We make the short walk to the truck to round up our supplies and decide to make the short mile drive back to camp, sit down for a quick bite to eat, and summon help. Gathering up everybody and explaining the situation we all head out to the canyon to retrieve our elk. Climbing down into the canyon with the rope, chainsaw winch, gas, and all the other supplies we needed took awhile and by now I was starting to worry if we would make it out by dark. I�m not sure I could prepare my brother and nephew who would go to the bottom of the canyon to help my son how difficult this job would be but they soon discovered what I tried to explain.

Finally getting my temperamental Homelite chainsaw power head to start, we start to drag the elk up the canyon . The first thing that happens when the line came tight is the rope highlines from the elk to the first contact point on the canyon 150 yards or so up the canyon. So, the carefully laid out line up the mountain is lost with the rope running 30 feet above the ground and pulling tight. It is amazing how much you can stretch 600 feet of polypropylene rope when you have a load on it, but once the line came tight, the elk took a leap directly into the creek and the rope was headed through the worst tangle of alder saplings imaginable. Too late, the work crew realized they had to go where the elk went no matter how bad it got. Someone had to guide the pulled elk through, over, and around all the obstacles it would encounter as it went up the hill. Good natured accusations of goofing off as each person slipped, fell, or got tangled in the undergrowth on the steep and slippery hillside seemed to make this task bearable- but just barely. By time they had struggled to get the elk through the worst of it the undergrowth they were already some very tired puppies and we had a long way to go to the top of the mountain. Three more lengths of the 600 foot rope through the winch and we were on relatively flat ground once again. However, by this time it didn�t seem very flat as we were so tired that simple walking seemed like a real chore. Five hundred yards from the truck, the drive wheel on the winch decides to fall off so we are to dragging the rest of the way.
Finally, about 15 minutes after dark we are having a beer at the truck with the elk safely tucked into the back. Funny how long the neck on the elk was by time we got it to the top of the mountain!

We skinned the elk at the meat pole by the light of headlights and lanterns, but I can think of worse things to happen! What a glorious day! As the stars lit the night sky, we headed to bed- destined to sleep as if we had died, ready to get up and do it again in the morning! Are we having fun yet, or what?

Good story! Sounds like fun to me.. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Wow. Great story. Sounds like a great father - son hunt.

Great story, thanks for sharing!

Huntr

I don't envy you the work but I do envy you the experience! Memories to last a long time there! Glad it worked out. TM

That is just to GOOD!

I could just see you guys going after it. Wish I could have been with you Bob.

Thanks for a good report.

On my spike hunt in the Washington Blues, I only saw branch-bulls. No spikes. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

But had a great time as always! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

What is the average altitude in your hunting area and the specific area of Oregon? I am always looking for "lower" places to put on my wish list. Thanks.

Your post and Spike's as well as others like these are greatly enjoyed.

I enjoyed that. Thanks Sheister.

Schiester --

Congrats on the elk, but I have to suggest that before next year's hunt you and your son practice some 300 and 400 yard shots, and get a laser rangefinder to accurately judge distance with. If I counted correctly, you and your son took 8 shots before the bull was still. You got it, and that's what counts, but it sounds like it may have suffered more than necessary.

Coyote Hunter,

Fact is, the first two shots took him through the lungs and front shoulder. He was dead, just didn't know it yet. The other shots were just to anchor him in place to keep him from running into the hell hole he eventually ended up in anyway. In all, he actually only travelled about 200 yards from the first shot to the last. When we opened him up, his lungs were shredded and his body cavity was completely full of blood but he was still in a fighting mood just moments before that.

"Shoot until they are on the ground" is good advice around here, no matter how well you do/don't shoot. Thanks for the concern, though. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Sheister -

My buddy and I have taken 7 elk in the last 5 years, one bullet each, at ranges of 100 yards to 350 yards. He shot one in the neck and it went 100 yards, two went 40 to 50 yards when shot in the chest, the remaining four more or less dropped in their tracks. Armor plated they are not.

Elk will go down within seconds when their blood pressure drops, and a good lung or heart shot will cause a rapid pressure drop. I suspect your elk went 200 yards because the first shots were not the ones that took out the lungs. I could be wrong but my experience tells me otherwise.

You don't mention how you practiced at 300 or 400 yards, and I suspect the reason is you did not. All I am suggesting is that you give it a try. When I first tried 300 and 400 yard shots two things happened: A) I found out where my rifle was REALLY shooting at those distances, and B) I became a better shooter at shorter distances because I had to learn better shooting discipline (breathing, trigger control, etc.). Besides, I think both you and your son will enjoy shooting at those ranges a lot.

yote hunter,

Your gift of suspicion seem be in high gear tonite and
before you give brother Sheister another sermon, I'll let you know I've been on two varmint hunting trips with the man and I dare say he knows how to shoot well above average.

SU35 �

You are correct. Here�s why:


�Dad, I can hit him from here!�, Joe says. I�m not sure I agree�
�I�m not even sure I can make the shot with a good rest�
�to see if we can hold steady enough for what would be a tough shot- a moving elk, 350-400 yards�
�so we can shoot at the same time and increase our odds of one of us hitting the elk with a telling shot�
�300 H&H Improved and my 338�
�just in time to see him flinch slightly.
� We both quickly follow up with another shot before the elk disappears into the trees�
�we each shoot once more. Harder this time as we are winded, our hearts are beating hard, and he is still a good 300 yards away�
�I hear a shot, then another. Joe�s voice on the radio announces the elk tried to get up and walk but before he had made it a shaky 50 yards Joe had gotten a good rest and shot him, hitting him on the second�


That�s 8 shots with at least one acknowledged as a probable miss (�hitting him on the second�, or #8, suggesting #7 missed). I suspect there were others. A .300H&H and a .338, both very adequate elk cartridges. The initial reaction is described as a �flinch slightly� � hardly the reaction I would expect from two shots to the lungs (as Sheister claimed in a later post) with these cartridges.

Further, there were a total of 4 shots taken immediately, after which the bull went 200 yards?

Then the bull is shot twice more, #5 and #6, and still manages another 50 yards before shots #7 and #8 finish him?

Am I suspicious of bullet placement? You bet!

Coyote hunter,

Seems the long range shooting Nazi's have come out again. I won't justify your BS with a more detailed response except for a couple small items.
There is obviously much more to this story than can be told on a short tale on an internet forum, but for the sake of a readable story I didn't include every little detail. If you had been around here long enough you may or may not have assumed I know what the heck I'm doing.

Secondly, I certainly don't need your approval or anyone else's to determine my course of actions. After gutting this animal, it was easily determined the first two shots both hit him. I won't begin to explain to you how I know that, but if you don't believe me I could give a sh&t less. If you have had different experiences than I have while hunting elk, well, I guess that doesn't really prove a dammed thing, does it? Have a nice day- Sheister

When the intended live target quits wiggling is when I stop shooting. Nuff said.

Amen Brother Sheister! Of course, you could get into a long winded argument about who, what, when, where and how but I think you just handled it very nicely! JMHO TM

Way to Go! I'm another happy user of the 1 - 2- 3 system.

Sheister wrote:



I'm hardly what you could call a "long range shooting Nazi", but I do think that people who take such shots benefit from practice. For myself, I feel pretty confident out to 350 yards with various rifles because I practice at both 300 and 400 and use a range finder in the field. Perhaps you practice such shots, perhaps not -- I don't know because you haven't said.



Undoubtedly so.



I tried to have an open mind. Missed shots happen, and even if they don't miss placement is not always as desired.



I would hope not.



I have to admit curiosity as to how you determined which two of the eight shots hit him by autopsy. Perhaps the angle, I don't know. Sounds like a Swiss cheese elk, though.



No, it proves nothing, but it still makes me suspicious as to bullet placement. I have never seen an elk well hit with a single shot travel any where near 200 yards, let alone one hit with 4 shots or more. For that matter, I have never seen an elk that was shot that many times, let alone 7 or 8 times.

If indeed you your bullets were all well placed, I would seriously consider changing bullets.

Coyote Hunter,

You are wrong and thanks for screwing up Sheister's thread. The above quote by you says it all. Perhaps you should lay off the Outdoor Channel for awhile.............................

Sheister,

Congrads and thanks for sharing. I enjoyed the read!

MtnHtr

Don't get the Outdoor Channel, don't have either cable or a dish.

But hey, I'm can admit a mistake. Elk soak up bullets like sunshine and routinely run 200 yards after doing so. Especially when the bullets are only .308 or .338 caliber and are well placed. In fact, the more bullets and the better placed they are, the further they run.

Time to lighten up a bit......

Sheister, enjoyed the story!

Sheister, good story and good job as the elk IS in the freezer whether it went as tidy as perhaps you or others might wish.

Don't know nuthin' about elk hunting, hope to gain some practical experience some day. But I am continually amazed at how different animals of the same species react to being hit by bullets. Have seen more than a few bears dropped with one shot, have seen just as many or more go like crazy after a well placed bullet or two. It just defies logic sometimes, but practical experience should have prepared me for it.

Long before I got really serious about big game hunting, I had seen both extremes in a less lethal scenario. You can hit one guy on the chin and down he goes....lights out, bye, bye,....... have hit a similar sized guy with the same punch, almost exact location, pretty close to the same fps (that's fist per second <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />) and he just grins at ya! (God that turned into a rough night) My experience tells me that no matter how well you place your first shot, you better be prepared for either extreme or anything in between. Course it's easier to do the high fivin', did you see him drop in his tracks than the other end of that spectrum. But if a guy is going to hunt much he had better be prepared for it. Glad you and your son weren't found wanting when the finish up part entailed the nasty stuff. 1ak

Sheister-Good story.I love the Father son hunting story's.As far as the shot goes-I think 1akhunter somed it up pretty well.I have seen them drop in seconds or on the spot but I have also seen them run down into the nastiest hole around to finally die from a good solid hit that has put others down and out on the spot.Maybe there not "Bullet Plated" but some just refuse to do the logical thing and die where the fatal shot happened.

Congratulations on you and your son's Elk.

Jayco

Man, I just tuned in. What the hell is Coyote Hunter talking about? He'd better stick to coyotes, since it appears that they are more actual challenge to kill than a 1-shot elk. What a bunch of B.S. I've taken both lungs out of bulls and had them go 4-500 yards. I could tell that they'd had a reasonably dramatic "drop in blood pressure" by the tidal wave that hit me upon opening up the chest cavity. Incidentally, I've seen Sheister make shots that were unheard of for the average shooter, and make three hits within 4-5 inches of each other in the vitals on a running elk at 350 yards across a canyon.


Sheister left a few things out that I'd like to address. First of all, he didn't mention that the first 150 yards of that hell-hole were an angle of about 60 degrees, moss and snow covered rock with a touch of mud so your clothes and face would be dirty for good measure. About half way up that part, we had to flop the animal over to free it from some brush. The flop, combined with the sudden surge from the tension on the stretched rope, gave this elk the idea that he should have one more good kick left. His rear hoof flew over and caught me right on the edge of the eye socket. After checking on how many stitches I would need, I spent a minute trying to figure out whether I was still standing or not. I told my son and Joe that these were tears of joy over the morning's success. Shortly after that, the elk tried the same move on Joe. Joe did a header down the last 30 feet of hillside we had just scaled. Looked pretty funny, although I'm sure it hurt. He was head-downhill in a position that didn't even allow him to get up. I thought he would end up back down in the creek before he'd be able to aim his body uphill again. I asked my son to shoot the elk a couple of more times so he'd lay off of us. The next hurdle was a 15 foot vertical road bank that the animal had to come up. I was going to put money on the fact that the little capstan winch would stall out and eventually explode before it would pull this elk over that piece of rock. Sheister calmly replid, "It'll make it, no problem". I thought, "yeah, right...". I was mistaken. Pretty impressive machine. Thank God we had reached the flatter part of the trip when the drive wheel broke. We undid the rope from around its neck(which was now 5 1/2 feet long) and snout. The tension from the rope had pulled the hide on its heqad so hard that the elk now looked more like a Shar Pei. Anyway, meat in camp opening day is a good thing. Turns out to be the only one taken this trip. Lot of cows and some beautiful (26-28") bucks were seen. All in all, great trip.

Good story Sheister, don't let him get under your skin. Flinch

I'v shot a few and seen quite a few shot,both lung and heart shots, that weren't aware of this. How can we get the word out? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Great story and now I'm really looking forward to elk season! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> Those winchs easily pay for themselves and more on a pull like that.

Jeeeeeesus H. Christ guys! I'm gonna have to come up and show you fellas how to bone out a critter one of these days! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Two trips for two guys coulda been an easy 50-ish pounds per guy per trip, including the weight of the pack! Of course, I'm old enough to realize "my" way ain't always the right way and there are many, many ways to skin a cat and "when in Rome," etc. (grin).

Respectfully Sir, Tons of elk have been killed with 30-06 and 7mag with 1 shot in the right place- bigger bullets don't make any difference. Truth being, alota lead went downrange for those 2 elk- not neccessarily bragging rights but, I guess some folks enjoyed your story. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Listen to Coyote and maybe you guys will learn something. Clearly most of you are pretty clueless.

If somebody like Coyote Hunter didn't step up and point out the obvious mistakes, how would most of you learn?

Nice story. Glad the Father & Son had fun. But when you post a story, you should be man enough to accept the helpful feedback - like that from CH.

Blue Spruce,
Maybe I missed it, but I coulda swore they were only shooting at one elk! Course if you happen to be seeing double that could explain a miss <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Oh to the last poster dla or whatever, I see by your posts you are new to the campfire! Welcome and FO&D! That's about as thinly veiled of a suckup as I've seen in awhile, impressive for outa the gate. Now the rest of you know nuthin's pipe down will ya, so's we can learn from the guru <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Although I've heard if a man's of mind to, he can always place his shot in the right spot and drop 'em in their tracks.......



ON THE INTERNET <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Yup ... if they're still standing ... " I'm still shootin ".

There's too many options available for a wounded elk to escape into deep reprod cover (or be shot by another hunter), to allow an elk that is hit, but still standing and still in-sight to get a free pass. Even snow on the ground isn't a guarantee of an easy tracking job. Picking the right tracks out of the thirty or fourty sets of tracks where a herd may have fed and meandered around, is waaaay different than shooting/following one up in desert sage brush or solo on an open hillside.

If ya only hunt petting-zoo's, gathering-up your Elk may be easier, but I've spent a lifetime Elk hunting the steep, wet, slickery, timbered, snowy, foggy confusing canyons of N.E Oregon and once the decision was made to harvest this Spike, y'all did the right thing(s).

Now, as for the comical story about the capstan winch/line ... vs boning-out and packing the elk out on packboards .... I completely agree with Muley Stalker. On the previous weeks exploit with "Spike" (John), he could just look at a skinned-out elk quarter laying out on a log, visualize the bone(s) inside and with a few deft knife-cuts, we were soon launching completely trimmed elk leg-bones, over our shoulders, down into the canyon bottom <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />... like the best kilt-wearing Scotsman at a Highland Games ... tossing the camber.

... S.B.

He shoulders the leg bone .... approaches the line ... Nice toss ! ... 42 feet ..

8Ball, I'm trying not to wet myself after your post. The part about asking your son to shoot the elk some more so he'd lay off of us and the part about the elks neck being, by now, 5 1/2 feet long just hit my funny bone. The fact that no one got killed makes this story funny as all get out.

Perhaps you should have MS come up next time ... although I'd pay a lot to witness the same routine again.

1ak, you crack me up! Whenever you see someone with next to no posts jumping in something like this, kinda makes you suspect someone might be coming to their own defense???? Maybe someones wife or girlfriend jumping to the rescue???

Seriously, eventually things don't go as planned and when that happens, the men are separated from the boys. Sheister and company got it done and whether the follow ups were needed or not is irrelevant when the animal is still on its feet. I'll take a few extra pounds of bloodshot loss over 160+ pounds of lost meat as the alternative.

SB, that's the perfect visual! Grinning here, as I'm guilty of trying to duplicate it myself -- still working on my technique though <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />.

Ain't that the truth. Anyone who's never missed or had to track something is either a lier or hasn't done much hunting.

Sheister -

First, let me apologize for sidetracking your thread. It was a good read even if I suspect the shot accuracy may have been weak. I agree with the "shoot until they are down" philosophy, regardless of how many shots it takes. You did a number of things right, including leaving your son as a spotter while you found the elk and getting it out under difficult circumstances.

Others here attest to your shooting ability, and if I recall correctly you took 3 shots while your son took 5. It may well be that his skill might benefit more from long range practice than yours.

Let me add that I have placed two shots into the much smaller lung area of an antelope from 300 yards - without the desired results. He went down but kept his head up. It took me 20 minutes to circle around a hill for a closer shot. He stood up and attempted to walk but a heart shot stopped him. While that sounds like 3 shots total, it was 5. I misjudged the distance at 400 yards instead of 300 and the first two shots were over his back. The bullets were Barnes 7mm 160g XLC's and I was very disappointed in the results. As a result of this experience I took the same advice I offered you - I got a laser range finder and spent more time at the 300 and 400 yard ranges. And I changed bullets.

Oops, right, only 1 elk was shot.....despite all the chest thumping here, there were 2 posters that provided some info that could be helpful. Of course insults ensued as a response. Nobody ruined anybody's thread. When a person posts a story, it is subject for scrutiny and others can at least learn, if the poster is not receptive. I learned some things about hunting, and about the posters who provided the insults.

1akhunter -

dla and I were both frequent posters at the Marlin forums before they were shut down. Now we spend more time at marlinowners.com than here. I've watched his posts for 2-3 years and we rarely agree on anything. One thing I will say for dla, though, is that he has his opinions and sticks to them, and I have to respect him for that. "Suckup"? I hardly think so.

Somebody's got to keep the bullet manufacturers in business!!

What's Spike's line..Keep bangin til the meats hangin...

Congrats on a freezer full...

When do they let you guys kill something with some headgear?

Mike

Coyote,

Point taken! dla, I sincerely apologize, the guy you appeared to be sucking up to says you ain't a suckup! So......it must be so <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

To Coyote and dla both, you're both probably great guys and good outdoorsmen and since this whole gig started with the premise from "your perspective" on trying to help someone be a better hunter or marksman without it being solicited by your intended recipient. Let me offer a little unsolicited advice on how to be a better "teacher or helper"

1. If you really thought Sheister needed help you coulda pm'ed with your suspicions of his lack of shooting prowess and asked for more details instead of ASS U ming you know just what his problem is. Little Johnny will probably absorb more knowledge if the teacher tries to help him at his desk instead of making him stand in front of the class and pointing out his shortcomings, while looking down her nose at him. Valuable teaching aid, you might want to practice it before you go teaching again.


2. You've had 7 elk kills in the last 5 years, good on ya, I like a guy that can get the job done! In the last 10 years I've been in on over 50 caribou kills, lotsa one shot drops, few that took multiple shots, sometimes due to the shooter, sometimes due to the bou. And strangely enough 3 or 4 that traveled a long ways after taking what turned out to be a lethal hit! One in particular that comes to mind because of this thread, only took one bullet due to terrain and me calling what looked to be a good shot, sure enough when we found him along ways from where I thought he'd be and opened him up his lungs were a wreck, yeah it surprised me and I still don't know why it happened but I saw it with my own eyes. You might be surprised what you see when you ain't the shooter and just looking through glass to see if the client made a good hit or needs to follow up or needs you to shoot.

Sheister coulda told us any dang thing he wanted about his hunt, my guess is, he's probably experienced his share of one shot kills, maybe not, but from my perspective I like a guy to lay the cards on the table, here's what happened. Warts and all! The truth ain't always pretty but it is the truth. It appears to me that guys that have "actually" hunted and shot with Sheister have a fairly high degree of respect for his shooting skills. He posts a story on this thread and you see fit to give the poor dweeb some pointers, sorry bud, but it seemed more condescending to me than instructional. dla comes on with post #4 and says basically "you guys are clueless, how else are you morons supposed to learn if guys like Coyohunter don't step up to the plate".

I don't care how many times you and he have disagreed on, I'd have to go look and see but I'm fairly certain it says 24 hr at the top not marlinwhatever.com, if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, guess what I think it is? Yep you got it........ a suckup! Now go back and read my opening paragraph, see anyone can post anything on the Internet, don't necessarily mean it's so.

I'm not gonna turn this into our personal flame war, this is my final point, it seems to me that you heard something outside, opened the door and chunked a rock at it. Now you're surprised and hurt that someone threw a rock back and broke out yer window! No hard feelings on my part, just call em like I see em, you probably do too. Even though we're looking at the same car wreck we both think the other driver's at fault! keep whacking them yotes, that's good for everyone (ceptin the yote of course) 1ak

1akhunter -

If I understand your position correctly, dla is a "suckup" because he agrees with me, but you're not even though you are making Sheister's arguments for him?

When Sheister posted on a public forum he invited comments to his post, whether he (or you) agrees with them or not. If he did not want comments HE should have been the one to go the Private Message or email route.

Sheister's initial response to my first post indicated that he is not particularly responsive to the suggestion that his or his son's shots may have been more effective had they been better placed, but he only claims two hits in the lungs out of 8 shots taken. Where did the others hit? Nor has Sheister ever commented about his long range practice even though invited to do so. There are a lot of other "Little Johnny"s out there and they can come to their own conclusions.

As to "Valuable teaching aid", I guess it applies to me but not to you?

Yes, my buddy and I have taken 7 elk in the last 5 years. Four were mine and I watched on the other three. I've also had the chance to watch a number of other elk, deer and antelope taken over the last 20 years. I provide those numbers not to show that I'm the Great White hunter but to suggest that I am not totally without experience, either. I am very well aware that other's, particularly guides, see much larger numbers taken.

Yes, Sheister told his story with "Warts and all" and I respect him for doing so. By "Warts" we are both referring to the number of apparently ineffective shots taken, are we not? If a member of my hunting group banged away ineffectively at big game I would make the same suggestions to them that I did for Sheister - more practice at long range, get a laser range finder, and consider changing bullets. As pointed out in a previous post, I took that advice myself after banging away ineffectively at an antelope. Some spectacular coyote kills at ranges up to 500 yards had me thinking I was doing OK on my long range shooting and range estimation -- problem was I was using a very different rifle, and the laser showed just how wrong I was on range estimation.

Yes, anyone can post anything on the Internet. I provided the references to the Marlin forums (now defunct) and marlinowners.com forums so that interested parties could do minimal research to verify my comments about dla and myself. You chose not to, which brings to mind the following: "There are none so blind as those who will not see." Like direwolf says over on the marlinowners forum, in a thread about this one, "Calling DLA a "suckup" is like saying Attila was mild mannered."

No, I'm not surprised that there are those here who disagree with my position, although I was surprised at some of the vitriol expressed. No matter, I stand by my comments.

Ch, You make some interesting points, which should probably also be made to Charlie Sisk. Sounds like a very similar situation to Sheisters. If you read his post on buffalo hunting, you will see where it took repeated shots to take out a buffalo with a 458 Lott, including the first two shots going through the lungs. If I read it correctly, there were several more follow up shots needed by two people to bring it down. As you explain it, the 25 yards they were shooting at was too far and they almost certainly needed more practice at that distance, they were probably using the wrong bullets, were they sure the first bullets were in the lungs, etc, etc. etc..

Sounds earily similar to Sheisters situation so I am sure they could benefit from your tips, if you care to share with them. After all, anyone could be helped by someone with your extensive experience, pointing out where they went wrong! JMHO TM

travelingman1 --

If you would be so kind as to provide a link, I would be happy to read it.

TM--you promoting a spike elk to Cape buffalo? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Sheister, you had me weeping on the "Stooges Do Elk Recovery" part of the story. It's the dead ones that'll kill you.

Buffalo hunt at the Bar B under custom rifles. When you read it, you might think about just how much experience Charlie has and the guy who runs the ranch. My guess is they have a pretty good idea of what works on animals and what doesn't and as one of your earlier posts states, as an outfitter and custom rifle builder, they just might have seen/done a little more than you and might know a little about bullet placement too.
In this case, it took 7 shots from really big rifles to get the job done. In many ways it sounds very similar to Sheisters situation, except they were only 25 yards away when the shooting started.

Sometimes everything you KNOW TO BE TRUE can be made a lie by a stuborn animal. You might want to think of that the next time you try to tell someone who was there, where they have done wrong. Of course that is just my opinion and I could be wrong. TM

Steve, Nope, just pointing out that in one case, there were 8 shots fired before the animal was recovered. In the other 7 and they were using BIG guns. Coyotehunters premise was that it had to have been poor shooting, range estimation, etc. that caused the problem. Yet in Charlies case, they were only 25 yards away? If his logic applied to Sheister, it would appear to me that it should apply to Charlie as well but it is a lot harder to argue missed shots, etc. when the ranges are so close. Maybe, just maybe, the logic is wrong. JMHO

Sometimes animals that should be dead, simply do not die when we want them too, even with the best shot placement in the world and trying to second guess someone over the internet can easily lead to some very wrong conclusions.

JMHO TM

TM--I will stipulate that, when the metal hits the hair there is just no damn telling what's going to happen.

And suggest, without backup data (who needs that on the internet, right?) that far more hunters are done in by dead elk than by live ones.

One in particular nearly got his revenge on me in the Laramies, when we decided dragging the front half of a 6x6 a few hundred yards to a cliff and lowering him to the valley floor where we could get a vehicle in was better than dragging him a couple of miles uphill, or driving back to the ranch for horses and a trailer. Bad choice---rope was only long enough to reach half way down, so I had to climb down to a ledge, secure him there, and get the end thrown down to me to do the second leg of the drop. About three hundred pound of free swinging elk, with a 30 knot wind behind it tried to drive his top point through my ribcage, right over the heart. Thanks to lots of clothes, I only ended up with a bad stab and a huge bruise. I swear I can still see the old boy smirking at me--- I'm looking at him now over my fireplace.

Steve, That is exactly the point. Chit happens. It just bothers me when someone tries to second guess someone else based on what they just "know" had to have happened, when they were not even there. But as I have said before, that is just my opinion and we all know about those! (grin)

Glad you go the final revenge! TM

Coyote,

It appears we is still looking at the same car wreck and still thinking different drivers at fault!

I may have made some assumptions on this whole thing as well, so you may in fact be right, but I don't know that and neither do you at this point, only Sheister knows for sure.

I ASSUMED after 2200+ posts Sheister had probably heard of RANGE FINDERS, VARIOUS BULLETS and their respective pros and cons and yes even practice! But can't know for sure maybe he only posts and doesn't read <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

The manner in which you decided to either inform or reinform him of those tenets, I found to be in bad taste, so thought perhaps you'd enjoy a bit of that medicine, since you think it goes down so well with other folks.

I'll take back that dla is a suckup (he's probably a standup guy) but post #4 on this board was about as condescending as it gets, THAT POST WAS A SUCKUP, maybe he's doing that instead of sending you flowers for all those other little spats you've had <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> Just kidding, don't get wadded up.

Others have posted, even started a new thread as to the weird things some "dead" animals will do. I have seen such and it didn't surprise me. You on the other hand appeared to be shocked which can only lead me to the ASSUMPTION (that nasty word again <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />) that you are either a better shot than everyone else here, you use better bullets than anyone else here, or you have better mojo than most here, or that you haven't had such an experience so you assume there must have been operator error.

Anyway, sorry if I ruffled your feathers, there's a good deal of azzhole in my genetic makeup, you may have caught a view of that side of me! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

But am laughing here, we got in all this tizzy about whether he made good shots or not......and still nobody knows but those that was there! When MuleyStalker touched upon the one thing I really could find fault with, that whole dang winchin' thang <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Just how much bigger is a spike elk than a good caribou bull? Seemed like two guys with backpacks woulda made it sooner and safer! But then look at the good story we'd a missed out on......so everthing has a purpose.

You're sticking to your guns and I'm sticking to mine, that's okay we ain't supposed to see everthing alike! Hope we can still be friends anywhow. Now PM me your addy and I'll send flowers! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Just kidding, whack another yote! I'll see what I can do about one or two of his bigger cousins in a day or two. 1ak

Works for me.

BTW, although it wasn�t taken that way, my original post was meant in a friendly way. Sometimes I�m not as tactful as I should be. The ensuing shiit-storm would have It would have been much worse had I been anywhere near as hard on Sheister as I am on myself.

travelingman1 -


Well, I read the post and, although there are indeed some similarities (multiple shooters and approximately the same number of shots), there are some glaring differences, too.

Can we ignore the obvious differences in body mass (2-1/2 to 4x) and metabolism and focus on the facts as presented by the respective writers?

At 25 yards, Sisk expressed no concern about the ability of members of his party to place the bullets properly. At that range I suspect the first two shots went through the lungs as claimed, and I suspect (although we don�t know) that most of the others were on the mark as well. We also know that the recovered Barnes �X� bullets expanded as desired. We know there were 6-7 shots and the bull went 75 yards, not 200.

Sheister, on the other hand, wasn�t sure if the range was 350 yards or 400. With my 7mm Mag loads there is a difference of 8� between the two, and I would expect similar differences with a .300H&H or .338. Sheister expressed doubt that his son could make the shot. Sheister also expressed doubt that HE could make the shot. We know that Sheister claimed the first two shots went through the lungs, but Sheister refused to say how he knows that. We know there was another volley (shots 3 and 4) immediately following the first, with no indication where the shots hit or (IIRC) if they hit at all. Nor is there any indication of where or if shots 5 and 6 landed. Sheister hinted that shot #7 missed and 8 hit, but again no indication of where. We know the spike went 200 yards after the first volley of 4 shots.

Again, I�m a believer in the �shoot until they are down� philosophy. Sisk and group did this, as did Sheister and son. The difference is that I doubt Sisk and group missed many at 25 yards, while there is lots of room for doubt in the case of Sheister and his son � and especially about the son - as expressed by Sheister himself.

CH, You know, somehow I did not think you would get it. But it is apparent you know when your right and others are not and there is nothing I or anyone else can say that would change your mind. Enjoy your life. TM

Frankly, I am just impressed as can be about the toughness of that spike elk... to make it as far as he did with half his drive train shot from beneath him... ;-)
art

Apparently it was from the planet "Krypton". <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Quick story on how tough Elk are. Last year I downed a 5x5 bull here in Montana, he came down the mountain and I caught him in a clearing about 120yds-+ out, he saw me and took off, I lead him and shot 3, 30-06 180gr branes xlc's at him. He never flinched or anything and ran right into the woods. I shoot alot and knew in my heart that I had hit him so I went over and looked for blood. Guess what? Nothing not a drop, So I started tracking him thinking how could I have missed? About 250 yds into the woods I came up on a huge splatter of blood were he had coughed it up and followed a now amazing blood trail from there until I caught up with my now dead elk (another 200+ yards) I had hit him with all three bullets, 2 lungs 1 liver and no passthrough, recovered 2 of the bullets with wide open petals. Now all I can say is that's one tough elk and now I'm wanting a bigger gun. Maybe a 340 because I like exit wounds and I do not like to chase wounded Elk.

Ask any experienced archer how far a critter can go with a hole in both lungs. Sometimes, it's pretty amazing. If the shock from a bullet doesn't have the usual effect for whatever reason, they can go a pretty fair distance until their bodies finally give in.

I'd also suspect from my rather limited experience with big game that "where" in the lungs can effect how fast an animal goes down as well.

Just some things to chew on.....

Speaking of chewing on: CH, you really brought the dogs on yourself. I understand you have a big problem admitting that and though you pretended to, your "Krypton" comment makes it obvious you didn't mean it in the least. Think a bit next time before you jump on the pulpit.

BTW, I'm guilty of it myself from time to time <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />!

MTMpoar
About 4 years ago I took a huge old elk......ranch owner estimated over 1000 pounds.....I didnt know elk got this big....At 22 yards, two shots from a 338 ... 225 Partitions broadside....after about 4 or 5 minutes he staggered, then went down.....kept trying to get up.....another broadside at about 5 feet.....I recovered two of the bullets, butcher ran meat saw through the other...
Charlie

Whew, that was a good read! Sheister, I'm referring to your post firstly. Great hunt and it's something I dream about doing with my own sons, when they're old enough. I'm neither a CSI nor a magazine editor so I won't comment on 'dotting the i's and crossing the t's'. Bottom line is that you got that meat into the freezer. To me, that's success and congratulations for that and sharing your story.

Coyote Hunter, ten out of ten for a great bitch session!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Hey, we wouldn't have 'campfire forums' if it weren't for differing opinions! You make some very valid points but perhaps unfortunately so given the manner in which they were received. Thankfully, we ARE all on the same side here, I think! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Charlie reminded me of a runaway longhorn steer gone wild that I watched take two 338 cal 210 grain bullets in the "perfect" spot, in the crease behind the foreleg and about a third the way up while broadside. Exits on both shots and that steer stayed on his feet for over 10 minutes before finally tipping over.

Another example of things sometimes defying logic. Anyway, sorry, I'll stop belaboring the point......

Bighammer, good to see some auzzies on board. Lay some
hunting stories on us from your part of the world. Love to hear them.

I couldn't resist, but have to admit I regretted it almost as soon as I posted it.

I'm off the soapbox now, though.

Bob, congratulations on a good hunt and thanks for the story.

With threads like this one that get out of control with people second guessing other hunters I am surprised that people are still willing to post stories of their hunts knowing that some troll with try to pick them apart. To those that are willing to take the chance I say thank you for the stories. tom

Charlie,

I'm sorry but with that post along with the buffalo adventure it is evident, you have bad rifles, bad bullets and bad form <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Perhaps if you started building slot cars instead of rifles?

Just kidding here man, your reputation precedes you, just making a point and flogging a dead horse <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I cain't know why some critters is tough and some ain't, I don't know how some little short legged fat guy climbed 2 mountains with me to get his sheep and 2 guys 15 years younger couldn't go to the outhouse without gettin lost. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

There just ain't no explaining God's creatures, they may look similar, but it don't make em so! 1ak

I�m not exactly a novice at this Elk-whackin game, yet last year I �whacked� a little spike(y) Elk and was totally amazed at his tenacity to cling to life and efforts to escape, after absorbing a normally lethal dose of serious warp-speed Barnes TSX medicine.

I had first spotted the spike, cross canyon some 300 yards away, where the tall dark timber met the edge of a sparse patch of second growth. Wasn�t going to attempt the shot offhand and before I could secure a comfortable rest (near prone) to shoot from, he slipped into the dense woods and I planned a stalk around the top of the bowl, hoping to intercept him.

Some 45 minutes later, as I dipped into a little fern covered draw, the Spike jumped up from his bed (about 85 yards off to my right) and stood broadside, trying to figure out exactly what I was. Rifle to shoulder, hasty sling wrap ... and my .300 Weatherby launched a 168gr Barnes TSX at 3400 fps dead-center into his chest. It double lunged him, missing ribs on the entry and exiting out through a ping-pong ball sized hole. From that first shot, the bull was already a Dead-Elk-Walking, but he just wouldn�t accept it. His reaction to the shot .... ? He jumped into the timber and crashed his way some 80 yards, steeply uphill, stupidly pausing (standing broadside) to peer around a tree at me ... with only his vitals hiding behind this tree. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

He should be floating on his back and circling-the-drain about now <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />,
but he�s still standing ... so I�m still shootin.

Firing uphill at about 140 yards, the second shot, placed as far forward as possible (close to the tree that shielded the vitals), passed two inches below the spine and exited the spike�s back, again through a golf-ball sized hole, taking a chunk of offside rib with it. By itself, this shot probably wasn�t fatal, but was taken because it was the only shot I had and I hoped it would put a little Kung-Fu paralyzing-effect on him, lest he decide to take a hard right and head down into a H-ll-hole.

At the impact, did the spike roll over and die ? No ! He jumped back into the timber and crashed straight uphill yet another 50 yards ....then upon entering an opening, made the mistake of pausing, quartering away, looking back at me over his left shoulder.

Still standing ? ... Yes ! .... Still shooting !
The third shot (uphill and quartering away) entered low behind the left front shoulder, blew the aorta off the heart and angled up into the offside shoulder, exiting the shoulder with a hole the size of a peach and causing tremendous tissue damage (and the loss of at least 5 pounds of RF shoulder meat). Did he think it was Dirt-nap time ? ... fall over and play-dead now ? ... Not ! He thought it was Recess ....

He cranked in a hard right, heading back into the timber and ran 40 yards across the top of the hill (far enough to get out of sight), before he finally laid down and ran-in-place (on his side) for almost 20 seconds before he expired. I posted the autopsy photos in an earlier thread last year and have never seen a young Elk, take such punishment and still travel so far, so fast and stay alive for almost 50 seconds, after having both lungs destroyed with the first shot. Yes, over the years I�ve had my share of bang-flops ... but this spikey was truly over the top in absorbing punishment.

... S.B.

Why did the Chicken cross the road ? ..... to show the Deer it could be done !

SB
Yeah, but did you take out the drivetrain? ;-)
art

I have refrained from answering this post in detail.Coyote Hunter is a top notch(SP) fellow.He has been "Lucky" in his Elk hunting experiences(reguardless of the years doing it) with whatever bullet or caliber.It is the years that takes a toll with different results from the same hit."I wish" they all hit the ground on a leathal hit..But they don't.As he hunts Elk more and shoots more he will learn this as most have but untill you get hit you don't know how it feels.

He is a mathodical and helpfull person to those that need the help on Reloading and such on another forum.On this one I also thought it was out of line as he never usually knocks another atleast from what I have seen in 2+ years on another forum.He didn't mention when he posted he was going or was under the knife for a previous injory with Vicoden or whatever..Doesn't matter much to me other than he is a good guy and would do anything for anybody anytime.I know this from experience.

Don't get me wrong as he was wrong in my little brain for posting what he did when he did with the "Actual" Elk hunting experience he has.We fight toooth and nail on another along with DLA...But Coyote is class and made just one mistake as I have on this forum....

Thats it...My opinion and I stand by mine that it was a good post from a father and son that should not have been challenged in the open.....

Jayco.

G'day SU35,

Shall post a hunt or two shortly. If the US weren't so expensive, I'd be over in a flash to crap on till the sun came up in person! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Bring it on Bighammer, with anticipation we await.

I'd love to varmint hunt Australia and finish off with some of those nice little buffs you have over there. My understanding is they don't have a fence around them. In fact I'd rather hunt Azzieland than Africa. That be a fact.

SU35,

Good to see you'd like to hunt in Oz. Plenty of varmint hunting available as well as various deer such as fallow, chital (axis), red and our premier game trophy, sambar. Scrub bulls are also available up North. All in all, good hunting. The quickest way to relay some of my hunts is via an article I sent in to one of our local magazines.

Tell me what you think.

How might a guy find one of those articles? Plan to make it down someday for a hunt. Was down on business some years ago. In fact my ex is on her way there as we speak/type!

Been yacking at a buddy who was down after buff with a bow a year or so back and he has me worked up to make the trip!

Muley Stalker and SU35,

I've posted the article under Big Game, titled Guided Hunts.