I've been arguing with some guys on another site that claim anything over 200yds is too far to shoot an Elk. I've been told I'm not a hunter,just a shooter because I would if needed shoot an Elk at 300-350yds.

They say a "real" hunter would never take a shot that far. One guy said he knows first hand how tough a shot that is because he shoots long range black powder matches. He has a hard time shooting the 600yd target with his open sighted 45-70. Apparently that means an Elk at 300yds with a high powered rifle with telescopic sights and a good rest is impossible.

How do you feel about shooting an elk at 300yds?

I think that shooting any game animal at 300 yds is risky business. It can be done. I've done it several times, but that is a long ways off when the shot goes bad. Under 300 is better, over 300 is to be avoided if possible.

I suppose they could be correct if one was taking just any shot at random, when standing on one's hind legs, right after running(?) up a mountain, etc. However, it could also be a relatively easy shot if one was set up properly for it, had the rifle sighted correctly, was well practiced at various distances and so forth.

Part of what makes one a good hunter is having and using the judgement to discern when a shot should be taken and can be made positively and effectively. If that fits you then I think those guys are full of it.

Some folks need a scooter to get to the kitchen,others don't.

I'd tell your pard to stick with what he "knows".....................(grin)

When you show up to a match with a 45/70...what else can you say?

very well said.

A "REAL" hunter knows his/her limitations. Whether they be 100 yards or 400 yards and sticks to them.

300 yards with modern equipment is well within the limitations of a "hunter" who bothers to learn to shoot. I have hunted with many yahoos who are scared of their "big" 06 and close their eyes every time they take a shot. For them 50 yards is a long shot.

I no longer go out with anyone if I need to sight in their rifle for them.
As far as knowing your limitations and staying within them..that's great but few do. I am amazed by the guys who have made "600" yard kills on game and have zero idea about trajectory and no clue as to the difference between 175 and 600 yards. What did they achieve...who knows, certainly not them.

If you don't practice and understand your rifles trajectory than 300 yards is too long. If you do, it is entirely possible if not quite routine.

I do get gas over the 500 yard boys but maybe they could use the elements of my argument against me.

Two years ago I shot two elk, at 340 yds, ( lasered this past year) with 220 gr Sierra RN , 30-.06. Both flipped upside down. For years I shot 200, 300, 600 yd match courses with iron sights. I try to limit myself to 300,yds,but there are alot of guys out there a darn sight better than me who can shoot better. I'm not a fan of long range hunting. Most of my elk ar eshot unde 100 yds.

High Brass, hit it on the head, its all about knowing your own limitations. These guys that are telling you this, probably cant shoot long range, so they give everyone else that can crap.
Toby Joe

I would venture to say that the dude's that wont shoot past 300 dont really hunt elk out west.
Here in WA I talked with state game bioligist from various areas before elk season. Each one of the four told me to be ready to shoot elk at 400 yards plus. Nothing new to me, but I found it interesting that would be their advise to the general public.

Its funny that you mention out west as the board is based in Western Oregon. Mostly "hunters" from Oregon and Washinton. Alot of the Elk hunting done in W. Wa. and W. Ore. is done in clearcuts where the shots range from at your feet to 300yds plus.

Stick said it well.

There was a time when 300 yards was my max. That was before I took the time to learn my equipment. I still prefer to keep it in that range, but with time to set up a shot, I'm confident out further.

Seriously guys, sometimes it's about "hunting" and sometimes it's about filling the freezer. Say what you want about me, but I LOVE elk meat (deer, antelope, bear, etc. too) and at times it is about food, plain and simple -- hmmmmm, wasn't that why folks started "hunting" to begin with???????

If conditions are right and I have 99.9% confidence I know my rifle enough to make a longer shot? Done deal! I'm with Saddlesore though regarding the LR guys. I guess LR is for each of us to define, but when it becomes a "stunt" I'd rather not partake.

Big Stick nailed it.. Stick to what you know. Some people are good out to extreme distances, some have no business shooting at 100yds..

Some people call the trip the to mail box 200 yard. Most guys can't judge range to save their neighbor's azz. In the words of Clint Eastwood, "A man has to know his limitations." <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> I am sure as hell glad I am not saddled with someone elses maximum range of 200 yards, especially on elk <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />



The hunting starts LONG before the season starts, so your friends are up in the night once again. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Flinch

Flinch, I got me one of those new bang whiz Lieca range finders this year. Took it out and ranged some areas that I have been hunting for years. Guess what, my approximate ranges were darn close to what I always figured them. There might be a lot more guys out ther than can approximate range distances than you think. After 300 yds though, accurate range estimation gets a lot more critical for most hunting calibers of rifles in the .270-.06 class. In the magnum class, I would suspect it might strech out to 400 yds.

I always figure hunting trips were in two areas. The finding portion that takes up about 95% of the time, and the hunting that takes the other 5%.

SU35, I have hunted "Out west" for + 40 years. As I get older, my distance to shoot elk gets shorter, not from lack of ability, but from the fact that I like to hunt them more than shoot them.

Anyone with a little practice can sit on the edge of a clearing and snipe elk out at 400 yds or so. It takes patience, perserverance, and skill to get down and dirty in the thick timber with a bull at 30 yds or so.

"It takes patience, perserverance, and skill to get down and dirty in the thick timber with a bull at 30 yds or so."

Actually, it takes more "patience, perserverance, and skill" to get to the kitchen on a scooter too...

Heck with them elk, y'all got me wanting a scooter now <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />.

Saddle,



the variables are so many while on an elk hunt that

the accomplished hunter should be flexible to do what it takes.

I enjoy hunting north face timber (I dont have a choice) and have killed more elk in the thick, but on occasions down in those holes you'll see through the trees a bull across the way on semi-barren south hillside. I like to reach out and touch them and since I hunt hard all week just to see a shootable elk, if the occasion presents itself I'm going to take up on it. I'm not one to wait to see if Mr. Wapiti will stick around for me to hike to the bottom of the drainage then try and sneak up on him at a steep upward angle. Chances are he will be gone. I just wont give him that chance. Short range, Long range, makes no difference to me. Hunting is not measured in yards in my book.

I also hunt the sage brush country where shots under 400 yards are a rarity. I hunt for meat and do whatever it takes to put the stake's on the table.



Here in WA I know several who hunt the west side and use

the ultra mags with the 375 mounted with a 6.5x20 variable

being a favorite. They shoot from mountian side to mountain side at ranges I will not attempt and that's because I know my limits for the tools I carry.



I drew a blank this year on elk and that wasnt because I didnt put in the leg time. By the end of my hunt week, I wanted to put an animal down and I'll be dadgummed if I'm going to take an attitude that says "lets see if I can get closer so I can call it hunting" stupid to say the least.



To all who expouse this idea I suggest you take up iron sights.

Using a scope is not hunting, after all, anybody can use a scope.

Its all relative you know.

SU35. My reply wasn't meant as a put down, or flame. Here in CO, we have been fortunate to be able to get 2-3 elk tags a year. More if you want to pay trespass fees.
For my table fair, I chose a yearling cow this year, as I already had a lot of elk meat in the freezer. I went the 3rd season, again with a cow tag, but just because I was taking a Kansas guy on his 1st elk hunt and I particularly didn't need to shoot another elk. Just for the game, I played around with a big 5 point and two raghorns for several hours. I put my crosshairs on them several times. Just a lot of fun. After they are down, it's just a lot of work if they are bulls or cows.

I have shot elk with iron sights, and peep sights, just to see how the rifle would do. It wasn't much different.

Coming home without the tag filled isn't a big deal with me. In the early years, I had to have the meat. Now days, it seems the less effort I put into it and concentrate on having fun, the more elk I shoot. I'm perfectly happy to let a big bull walk if a good shot doesn't present itself.

No sir! I didnt take it that way and I hope you dont think my post was as well.

Thanks for your response and I do understand where your coming from. I wish I had the problem of to much elk in my freezer. My family loves the stuff.

You're lucky to be where you can hunt elk. I have to drive 27 hours to get to Colorado. Then get maybe 5 to 7 days to hunt. Passing on a shot at a less than perfect angle or at 300 yards isn't very appealing. I only get to go every 3 years or so, and want to bring something home. That's why I practice my arse off and use a fairly large gun. I've got pretty comfy with my .338-06 to about 325 yards.
Luckily my wife and son love that elk meat, so it's not too hard to justify going!
Come on 2005! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

That is the absolute best answer to that question. I have taken antelope at 525 yds with a steady rest in the open and would do the same on elk if conditions were perfect. Heck to Big Stick thats not even half way........

SU35, I echo your feelings. That bullshit about "It ain't hunting unless you are close" is just that. I have seen FAR more game missed or wounded at short range than long range. If you have 2 weeks off and hunt private land, great, get close, but in the real world of public land, short vacation time and LOTS of hunters. Getting closer is pure fantasy and I don't think I have EVER seen anyone pass up a 300 yard shot at a bull, just to get closer and call it hunting. If you have hunted all week and haven't seen anything and one pops out at 300 yards, are you gonna eat your tag by trying to get closer????? I don't think so. That makes about as much sense as, "I don't hunt to kill something. I don't care if I get anything. I just go for the camping." Okay, then leave your rifle home and don't buy a tag. Let's see how much camping you do in the snow then <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Like I said, I am glad I am not handicapped by someone elses narrow minded thinking about what "hunting" is. I go to punch tags by whatever means that are legal. Gosh, that was a heck of a tangent <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Flinch

Don't worry B-boy, I'll share....................... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Oh God was that funny!!!! Glad I wasn't drinking my coffee.....<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

"Nuts."

3 or 4 years ago I found a herd of 80 or so elk atop a knoll in open sage country. We got within 600 yards from a higher knoll but were absolutely unable to get closer without exposing ourselves in the sage. After watching them for 4-1/2 to 5 hours through sunshine, rain, sleet, snow and finally more sunshine, they finally started to move at sundown. As they moved off the knoll, I was able to get closer. The last 100 yards were covered on my back, pushing myself head-first through 6" of snow, the sage and cactus with my feet. At the end I was still 350 yards (measured later with a GPS) from the bull I wanted. With only minutes of shooting light left and no way to get closer, I took the shot. The bull went down in his tracks, got up and took 2-3 steps, and went down for good.

Granted, I practice shooting at 200 yards for the most part, 300 yards frequently, and 400 yards once or twice a year. I was prepared for the shot.

I put people who feel there is never a need for long range shots in the same category as people who feel there is no reason to push .45-70 bullets past 1800fps. If that is their decision, fine - but I'll make my own decisions. That 350 yard shot was the result of more hunting and rifleman skill than any other I have taken in 20 years of Colorado big game hunting.

Well Flinch, you got along way to go to figure out just why you are hunting. If it's just to kill something, why not just go buy an old cow, or bull, turn it lose in your back yard and shoot it. All my hunting is done on public land. For at least the last 15 years, I have shot an elk every year, sometimes two, some where bulls, some where cows.This isn't to brag, just to show some folks that you can hunt elk, take home some meat from the freezer and have fun.

[quote]Well Flinch, If it's just to kill something, why not just go buy an old cow, or bull, turn it lose in your back yard and shoot it.

saddlesore, I think Flinch has already done this <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


...maybe he can show some pics, or even maybe a vidoe,

I am not missing anything saddlesore. I like the mountains and the trip as much as anyone, but I sure ain't hunting to go home empty, although it does happen. You can't justify the "meat" as cheaper than beef, so the "I hunt for the meat" saying is pure hogwash. Tags aren't cheap, neither are rifles, fuel and all the other things that go with hunting. The meat is a nice excuse to get out and kill something <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> My full intention when shouldering a rifle and pack is to punch tags. That is what I am there for. The other things that go along with it are the pleasurable biproducts of hunting (nature, the smells, being outdoors...etc). Maybe when I get a lot older, sitting around the campfire telling lies, sleeping in, and going for a horse ride in the hills will be more important. For now, I will keep punching tags and shooting steers...I mean elk. I don't have horses or access to horses either. I am sure if you didn't have those available, your "hunting" practices and success would surely change <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />. Here are the pictures you requested of a "leisurely" cow hunt <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Flinch

LMAO! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Flinch, details man! what cartridge/bullet combo did you shoot that critter with anyways?
Did you hunt it or did you just shoot it at long range?

Good one, Flinch! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Dang, saddlesore, stick your tongue out at someone around here, and you're liable to get a #3 snapped on it.

Personally, 300 yards is my "limit"- simply because that is pretty much "point blank" range for most rifles. And I don't have a rangefinder. Anything beyond 300 yds is mortor country, and one SHOULD have a rangefinder for that, as bullet drop becomes critical , and range "estimation" sucks, no matter how good you are.

Never-the-less, I'm mentally prepared to shoot to 500 - if I can make a reasonable determination of range, the conditions are right, I have an appropriate caliber, and I can't get closer. My preferred range, however, is inside 50 yards. Can't hardly nothing go wrong if the critter is in "from the hip" country, and you actually AIM!

In August, I took a nice bull caribou at about 357 yards (about 300 yards farther than my druthers), paced off, with a 17 inch barrelled .30-06, group centered 3.5 inches high, 1.5 inch groups, 180 grain factory Remington Corelocts.

I estimated the range at 300 yards, with no closer approach possible, held 1/3 forward from the back of his shoulder hump, even with his back line, and darned near missed him because of that last 57 yards (and the velocity loss from the short barrel). I'd planned the bullet to go 6 to 8 inches higher than it did. The bullet shattered his brisket, sliced open one lower chamber of his heart (if it wasn't a richochet piece of bone or bullet) and the jacket lodged in his far knee. I suspect I was luckier than I deserved.

I dislike gadgets, but I might just have to buy me a rangefinder yet if I'm gonna keep shooting open country sheep and caribou at those distances. Especially with "Stub".

Curiously enough, the other planned "long range" shot that I've executed satisfactorily was also made with this same rifle, shortly after I first acquired it about 15 years ago. 330 yards on a nice Dall ram. Plus or minus maybe 5 yds. 4 days later I killed a 42 inch moose at 70 yards. Quickest I have ever had a gun pay for itself ($80 - minus the 5 inches of barrel to get rid of the bulge at the end).

My partner gives me no end of crap about my "long range mortor". He also keeps reminding me of the time I missed 3 out of 4 shots at a wounded moose at 20 feet with my 26" barrelled .338 Mag. (I was trying to head shoot it as it ran in a half circle around me - I had it "trapped" against a lake shore - on the other hand, had he shot it correctly to start with, I wouldn't have had to. Unless you count the one thru the nose- then it's only two out of 4. Things were a little quick and tense there <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> ). He shoots either a 7mm Mag or a .300 WM with 24 and 26 inch barrels, respectively, , and considers anything over 200 yds to be "long range". My guess is that if he ever has a 300 yard shot to make, he'll shoot over its back, or higher than planned, anyway.

I don't believe I have ever bench shot "Stub" at anything but 100 yards, but when I touched 'er off, I KNEW that caribou was going down . I was almost wrong, but not quite.

It wasn't in the short barrel/bullet drop, but in the range estimation, IMHO, that I almost went wrong.

See "Success story with Interbonds(Colo. Elk)", that was a 400yd shot with a 7600 Rem. '06' J

las, I think you summarized my preferences on shooting as well. To 300 yards, no question about it. To 500, I'm prepared if the stars align. Preference is close and tight!

BTW, wish I was there for that show with the moose. Though I'd feel bad for him as I'm sure you did, it'd have been a riot to witness!!!

Man Flinch, I'd almost forgotten about that GPD hunt ... especially that stalk ... nope, better get closer ... nah, closer ... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I couldn�t disagree more that hunting is just about �punching tags�. I hunt to test myself, and to glimpse the character of those I hunt with. My favorite tale at the Campfire this fall is Big Stick�s hunt with his young daughter. I figured there was going to be a dead deer at the end of the story but that didn�t matter to me - I enjoyed the glimpse.

My son�s first deer hunt was brutally cold � the exact opposite of the weather you hope for. I spent more time worrying about him than hunting, but in the end my son survived it better than I did. At one point during the hunt this 12-year old offered to trade gloves with me because his were warmer. I don�t remember if I punched a tag that year and it doesn�t matter.

I don�t pheasant hunt in the Dakotas as much as I used to � all those birds flyin� around kinda detract from the hunt. I�ve seen some really crappy dogs �punch tags� for masters that were equally crappy shots. Put those same dogs and masters in a 300-acre CRP field with one runnin� rooster in it, and let�s see how they do.

Muley Stalker and �Hunt Colorado� is another great example. Here�s a guy with such faith in his hunting skills that he offers to place a yahoo like me in a situation to see game without him being there � with enough confidence that he can make dough doing it. Holy crap, talk about testing oneself.

I do almost all my deer hunting with a handgun now - I suck at it. My main problem is the slight up-kick in heart rate I still get when I see deer. I don�t notice it with a rifle, but the little extra shake to my hands really makes the handgun dance. I still hunt with a rifle occasionally, but now it always feels like a concession � I�m not good enough with a handgun in that particular situation. I�ll work on that.

As for 300-yard shots, do what you will. The trouble with getting as close as possible is going one-foot too far. That said, a guy doesn�t have to get around much to discover that hunting skills and woodcraft are dying arts. The technology of long range shooting, be it from the side of the road or from a ridge top, is playing a part in that. Hanging an arbitrary range (200? 300? 400?) on hunting skill is silly, but nonetheless there�s a progression at work that I can do without.

Flinch,

Good one dude, I LMAO on that one !!! (WTF, I almost wizzed my pants laughing so hard !!!) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Now THAT is a SPIKE !!!!

I have been out west : many times hunting elk, deer, moose, goats, Mt goat, bear etc.... Of all my trips, only two kills were under 200...one a mule deer and that last one, the moose I just took in BC.

Most of my shots have been between 200 and 300 yards, several over 300 and my longest, @ 450, which BTW was on a 6x6 bull elk, which BTW didn't take a step after the fact .............

And, YES I was hunting, not shooting.

YMMV, or as they say up in Pa. : "Yous guys milage may vary"

Tony.

One more point about long range shooting at game..............in the words of Clint Eastwood : "A man's got to know his limitations"..... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Tony.

I think there is an echo in here <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Flinch

Bob, didn't you pay attention to the video???? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> All the bullet and rifle details were covered quite well. For you "old" guys, the steer was shot at 125 yards on public land in the mountains with a .25-284. The bullet was a 100 grain Barnes XLC moving along at over 3,500 fps. The steer took two bullets right in the shoulder, but was dead on the first one. The second was for insurance, because he was charging. Muley Stalker, you should have been there. It was quite spectactular <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Flinch

Geez, wish I was there, could have played backup and got in on the fun too! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

MtnHtr