Forgive the ignorance from this newbie. I've aways understood that after the kill you gut I.e field dress the animal, leave the hide on and then take it somewhere where it can be hung and butchered.

I hear a lot of you guys on this forum talking about 'deboning' the animal in the field and the 'filling the cooler'.

Is it really true that you folks are deboning the animal in what sounds like 10s of minutes at most rather than field dressing and taking the whole animal out to butcher elsewhere?

I'd appreciate if you could point me to any resources to help clarify.

There will be lots of answers because there are lots of different situations. I hunt on my own property and I usually bring my deer to the house before gutting. I do all my own butchering and have a fridge to put the meat in if it is not cold enough for it to hang. You will have to figure out what is best for you and where you are hunting. miles

I've never broken one down in the field, and it would take me a LOT longer than 10 minutes. I've always been able to load mine up and bring them a few miles home to do the cleaning.

Here's the [b][color:#3333FF]Gutless Method on an elk...[/color][/b]

Typically in the areas I usually hunt, we aren't using a vehicle to get to where we are hunting. Carrying an entire animal out without breaking it down is a major PITA. I dragged a deer over a mile last year because I didn't have my pack yet. After downing a critter I normally gut it out and quarter it up, makes for an easier pack. If I had more time I could bone out the quarters to save some weight, but it normally isn't necessary. Also in some areas of Alaska it is against the law to bone out the meat completely in the field.

Yes, it depends on the situation. On the public land here we are required to gut them in the field and then bring them in for weighing and measuring. Last year in Colorado I shot an elk on the side of steep mountain in thick brush and I couldn't even budge it an inch so I did the gutless method for the first time...in the dark. It did work even though I wasn't the most efficient at it and I was able to carry down the pieces in my backpack.

Elk and bear always get boned out for packing. Pack quarter bags and 550 cord of hanging bags. Big animals take a few trips. Cut up and packed out a big blacktail a couple weeks ago.

You're not getting them out whole. If you don't get the hide off of elk, bear or antelope fast you'll lose most the meat. It's not tough to do.

If I could get the animal out whole and hung at camp quickly I probably would.

If I can get a critter out whole, I will gut it then skin it once I get it home. Cleaner that way.

If there's no way it's coming out whole, I just skin a side, then cut off each quarter as close to the torso as possible. Flip the carcass and repeat. I take the quarters off at the ball joint for the rears and the fronts come off easily as no joints need cut. Then I turn the torso onto the brisket and fillet off all rib meat and the backstraps. The neck gets cut off and deboned too. Then I take the tenderloins and the heart. Explaining how to take the tenderloins with the guts in is hard to do so I won't try to. It's one of those things you have to do once, then it's easy.

The whole process takes me a good hour for an elk, maybe 45 minutes for a deer. Others can do it quicker I'm sure, but I take my time and keep things clean. It's not really too hard once you do it a few times.

Here's a pic of what's left to carry out: For a deer, I use one game bag each for a hind and a front quarter, plus one game bag for the rest. For an elk more bags are needed.



You can debone the quarters too, but I usually don't.

From my own experiences with boning in the field over the last 20+ years, I'm convinced that boning before the carcase stiffens up will make the meat much tougher, sometimes too tough to chew. I've done them gutless many times and it's the easiest way to do it but for the most tender meat I like to gut and skin to get them cool, then wait at least a couple hours before boning, preferably overnight if there's minimal bear or wolf danger in the field.

I've gone back over the toughest meat I've shot as far back as I can remember and every one of them was boned immediately after being shot. I can remember 2 moose and an elk that were the classic all time toughest animals ever shot, both boned immediately after being killed. The best ones were left to cool before boning. Last year I got both a large mulie buck and a cow elk in the evening. I gutted both & skinned the elk in the field and boned them out the next morning for packing out. Both were VERY tender.

Here in Colorado if the temperatures are above about 30 degrees then the Elk needs to be skinned or it will sour over night. Then most of the meat is not good. Got to get the hide off and the elk quartered. You can not leave it with the hide on it. The hide and the bulk of the elk keep it warm. I even built a platform for the back of my truck so the meat does not lay directly on the truck bed. The truck bed heats up while driving home. The drive home is usually 2 to 4 hours.

Might I ask why you left the foot and lower leg on? Is it the law like leaving one wing on a duck or a foot with spur on a Pheasant? I can't speak to mule deer but on whitetail and on cattle the lower leg is easy to cut off at the joint on the knee. With a little practice there is a flat joint that is easy to cut. miles

My hunting partner and I have converted to the gutless method mentioned above. We've done antelope, deer and one moose this way. I won't go back, unless the animal is where I can back my truck up to them, and even then, I probably would stick with it. You end up leaving all the byproduct in the field and not having to deal with it later, if nothing else.....

Tom

Very interesting. Do others notice this as well; that meat de-boned in the field is tougher?

I am a cattle rancher and our butcher kills, guts and hangs the carcass for ~14 days in his locker. I don't know if it is skinned when he hangs it; suspect it is. The results are very tender meat.

Didn't expect that boning immediately vs the next day would make so much of a difference.

I have always heard to wait 24 hours before cutting up an animal to allow rigor mortis to pass or else it would be tough. I quarter my deer and put the quarters in a fridge or cooler and let them stay for 4 or 5 days and have always had good meat. I have no facilities to allow the whole animal to hang, or I would do that.

Obviously I don't hunt in the wilderness where I have no access to coolers or fridges else I would make do the best I could. If possible, I would probably try to take the qtrs out whole.

This discussion comes up often. We have someone on here who's a pro butcher and he claims that cooling too fast will also cause tough meat. That seems to fly in the face of 'common knowledge' but I can't argue with years of experience.

I've seen the same thing. I hunt the backcountry so I pretty much always have to cut up my elk or deer to get them back to the truck and on ice, in large coolers. I've packed out bones before, but I like to think I'm older and wiser now, LOL. An elk femur is a heavy piece of bone.

Anyway, I normally use the gutless method, remove the backstraps/loins and then separate the quarters and hang them in the shade, bone in, usually at least overnight, as Rock Chuck said. So the quarters aren't usually an issue, but the backstraps are. The toughest backstraps I ever ate were from a 2-3 year-old mulie buck that I shot right at dusk and immediately cut up. The cuts from the hind quarters, which were left bone in and hung overnight, were much more tender.

Same with this year's bull, the backstraps (removed immediately) are not as tender as expected, but cuts from the hind quarter (left bone-in overnight) are better.

Also, what Rogue said about getting the hide off an elk or antelope post haste is right on. A lot of guys from back east or the midwest are accustomed to leaving a WT deer hide on for a while, and they do the same thing with elk or antelope, with bad results. I think that's why you hear a lot of guys talk about antelope not being good table fare; you can't treat it the same as a WT.

Has anybody tried aging a deer/elk for 14 days? It seems like the conditions(temp/humidity) would have to be very controlled.

I've kept some animals in a cooler with lots of ice for a week without bad outcomes but it did make me nervous.

I have an acquaintance who is the head honcho at a hunting club and they have their own walk in cooler/meat locker. He leaves deer in there, hide on, for about 2 weeks. I have had some of his venison and it is very good, but mine that I just leave in the fridge 4 or 5 days before final processing and freezing is pretty much the same as far as I can tell.

Keeping one on ice or in a fridge for a week won't hurt a thing, this much I know. It probably helps especially if you have an older "trophy" age class animal.

I have found the same thing about deboning right away making tougher cuts. Especially the back strap.

Its known as "cold shortening" and in the beef industry various ways have been tried to over come it, including applying electric shocks to the hanging carcass!

And the fact the carcass is hanging is also part of the tenderization process as basically the meat fibers are being stretched under their own weight. Again from the meat industry, there is another idea that the best way to hang a carcass is via the aitch bone so the carcass appears to be folded over somewhat..apparently it stretches fibers in certain muscle groups better than the more traditional way..

From a hunters perspective, I believe the ideal situation is where you can hang the carcass to allow it to cool slowly/naturally and then move it into a chiller to hang for a further 10-14 days minimum.

Putting a warm carcass into a chiller also causes other problems and can cause any existing carcass to go a little slimy due to the increased moisture content of the air...

Yes, I use a small converted fridge to hang by carcasses for ten to 14 days..Because this fridge set up is not purpose designed, you do have to watch for signs of mold starting to form..This is usually the limiting factor rather than the carcass going "off"..



The carcasses above are our small Roe deer, but I have had a 65" Fallow deer pricket carcass in there..The fridge itself was bought off ebay for about $75 delivered and I just removed the shelves and added a hanging rail. I now have a slightly larger stainless steel fridge that I got for virtually nothing, and it will take up to four roe or two medium size Fallow..

Many stalkers in the UK have these sort of fridges, with converted soft drinks chillers being another favourite:

In alaska, there are several units where you are not allowed to debone. Quarters must stay intact, per fish and game.(waste of meat brought this about) Toss a hind quarter off a bull moose on your back and trot to camp sometime

With about 7 miles to cover from where I hunt to the truck, I completely debone the elk. Every bit of weight I can get rid of, I do. Meat from last years was delicious.

Jeez, what's an average HQ off one of those weigh?

So am I concluding correctly that the recommendation is that unless you have to, field dress the animal hide on and take it quickly to some place it can hang and cool.

- If deer or moose, leave the hide on when hanging.
- If elk or antelope, once you hang it, skin it right away?
- What about caribou - any recommendations for it

In both cases, quarter it up the next day after hanging.

How much of this did I get right or wrong?

Only skin and debone in the field if you can't carry the whole animal out and expect the back strap meat to be tougher? Presumably the rest shouldn't be too bad as it still has the bone in?

Think that you are basically trying to extract a pile of meat and you have to weigh up the best way to get it out without it spoiling or getting too contaminated/dirty.

Exactly how you do it will depend on circumstances and practicabilities ie what I can do with a small Muntjac deer will be impossible with an elk.

So, if temperatures permit, I like to gut my deer, but otherwise leave them whole and in the skin. Once back at the larder or camp, I will tidy up the carcass and remove the lower legs and head, but leave the skin on. I prefer to leave the skin at this point as it stops the surface of the meat drying out while hanging. I will then hanging it for ten to fourteen days at just above a degree or two above freezing.. 24 or 36 hours before I intend butcher, I will skin the carcass..

Other folks do things differently, but this general process works for me in my circumstances..

Once you have it hanging at home there's no reason I can think of to leave the hide on, regardless of what kind of animal it might be.

Until this thread, I"ve seen few that agree that even tenderloins that have not aged can be tough.

We used to try to cook the loins right away, but it was a waste of good meat.

Age it all and then cut it up...

If you can get the animal whole to camp/home/butcher quickly, couple hours at most... just gut it.

When at camp/home, hang immediately and skin all animals, cover with game bags to keep the flys from laying eggs on it. Keep cool.

don't mess with it till you butcher.

If it's farther out, quarter and skin in the field, bag and keep cool. once out hang in camp/home. Butcher when ready.

If farther out. Bone and bag in the field, keep in cool spot, pack out, hang in camp/home, butcher when ready.

It doesn't matter if it's hanging in the field or camp cooling, so you can take a few days getting it out, some areas my have predator problems so hang it high.

Get the skin off within a few hours no matter what.

If it's hot you may need to artificially cool with ice or refrigerator... cut up to accommodate.

Kent

The only reason to leave the hide on, in the field or at home, is to keep the meat clean. Deer, moose, whatever, skin as soon as practical. Moose, like elk, have tremendous insulation in the hide, not to mention the bulk of the meat to hold heat, and it should come off ASAP.

For the best meat, at the very least don't bone until it's in full rigor mortis, longer is preferable.

You can age it after it comes out of the freezer in the fridge for a week.

Meat don't need to be on the bone to age and get good pieces. Some air circulation ain't a bad thing.

If I can, I'll hang them whole, but lots of times that hasn't been an option.

Circumstance dictate, if you drop an animal at -25 versus +25. Steelhead highlights this in his post.

I remember as a young lad my dad shot a decent whitetail buck and we took it to my uncles house to hang it on his front porch and if memory serves me correctly, we didn't skin it either. We left it there for I believe was 10 days and not a piece of it spoiled. Temps never got above 40� and it was some of the best tasting deer i've ever had.

canoetrpr;
You have, in my experience for sure anyway, received some very good advice already and I'll try not to repeat too much of it.

As a point of reference, we've been processing game at our place for our family and friends since about '88 or '89. Over that time we've done something like 2 moose, a California Bighorn, maybe 2 dozen black bears and what has to be over 150 whitetail and mule deer.

We're quite warm in the early part of the season here in the Okanagan and take great pains to jerk the hide off of all dead creatures as soon as is practical.

We used to backpack and horse pack out at least one deer every season and like others mentioned did find that removing the backstraps immediately did make the meat more tough.

Some seem to be confusing flavor with toughness and I never thought boning a deer out immediately had a negative effect on flavor - just made it more tough is all.

According to what I can understand, aging meat is best done at a couple degrees above freezing. While I'm not well versed in aging it after it's been frozen, I can't see the harm in experimenting with that either.

As a last thought, the best book of many I've read on the subject is Eileen Clarke's "Slice of the Wild".

Here's a link:
http://www.riflesandrecipes.com/ind...ry&layout=blog&id=4&Itemid=6

Anyway, hopefully some of that was some use to you or someone else out there in ether space this afternoon sir.

All the best to you and good luck on your hunts this fall.

Regards,
Dwayne

I had to carry those quarters out over my shoulder. The only reason they were left on was for leverage while balancing the meat on my shoulder. Otherwise, they would have been taken off.

I agree with rock chuck too on the bone in aging thing. I try not to debone unless I must. I have found the meat to be chewy if boned immediately. I've tried to bring the backbone to keep the bone in the backstraps, but that was a mess.

Some folks keep the hide on, even antelope and it tastes fine. I have always skinned either in the field or once I get home. Just habit I guess. Some hate the red crust skinning creates, some hate skinning a cold carcass.

I do prefer to let age at least a week, regardless of the species. It always is more tender for me. If its cold enough, I've been known to age up to three weeks. I actually like to have mold growing on the outside before I butcher.

I am going to do an experimnet. I have an old TOUGH bull in the freezer that I killed in 09. He has lasted that long because he is like shoe leather. I have maybe 20 lbs left of steaks which I have been grinding a little bit each time when I want to use it. I am going to put one of those steaks in the refrigerator and age it. I'll report back in ten days or so

Probably be the best steak you've ever eaten and you'll hate the grinder from now on:D

Mike

Ok, I'll try again to make sure I understand.

Sounds like following one of these two approaches I should generally be good:

I kill an animal in the field.

1.
I quarter an animal in the field say using the gutless method, and skin each quarter as I'm doing it, then bag it in cheesecloth to keep it clean, put it in a portable cooler, pack it out within a few hours, hang it wrapped in cheese cloth (either outside at camp or in a cooler somewhere)

Then butcher/de-bone it after aging for a minimum of one day.

I should expect decent results for everything other than tenderloin and back strap as those were not aged.

2.
If I'm confident I can take it back to a proper cooler right away to hang, I can just gut it, leave the hide on to keep it clean while I drag it back, take it to the cooler, hang and skin. Hang it for a day to a few days and butcher. This way my tenderloins and back strap will also be tender.

Agreed?

To hell with cheese cloth. You can pick up thin clean cotton sheets from any hotel for a buck a piece. Fly proof too.

Just for the record...just finished a fine dinner of venison-ka-bobs. Meat off the round of a young mulie buck shot last week by Snubbie in late afternoon. Dressed & left in the field overnight before skinning & boning to be hauled out by my llamas. Very tender & tasty. Deeelightful!

Most certainly was useful. I've really appreciated all those who took time to post here. Unlike many lucky folks who were passed the tradition and basic knowledge of hunting down from their dads and grandfathers, I'm the first in my family to have an interest in it. I cannot tell you how invaluable it is to me to have all of you openly share your wisdom.

Thank you.

As a meat wrapping, cheese cloth is pretty worthless - including those cheap deer bags. Flies can lay eggs right through the stuff and it doesn't keep dirt out. I agree that old sheets make great, cheap bags. I have a good supply of old pillow cases for deer quarters and loose stuff like neck meat.

I have never understood the concept of cheesecloth for a game bag... saw a guy's elk in it and he asked what white fuzzy stuff was growing on the meat... fly eggs before they turn.

Kent

if your self taught that Taste of the Wild cookbook is worth its weight in gold....its an excellent resource on butchering and is not just a cook book.....on top of buying one for myself ive given it to a few people as christmas presents....

The reason people leave the hide on while hanging an animal to age for long periods is to prevent the meat from drying out and developing a "rind" which will have to be trimmed off later.

Aging it now won't hurt it any but if it wasn't stretched when you killed it, it likely won't get much more tender.

Here is a good thread on aging: Aging by experts

I don't think someone could debone one in 10s of minutes, but last year in thirty minutes SlipSinker and I took one from freshly killed to quartered and in packs in 30 minutes, using the gutless method.

There's an old rule of thumb for aging beef. Because of differences in enzymes, I don't know if it applies to the deer family. As temperatures increase, the enzyme action that does the tenderizing speeds up, at an increased risk of spoilage.

in general, for each 10F increase in temperature, decrease hang time by half. Each of these will give the same amount of tenderizing.

35F 2 weeks
45F 1 week
55 3 days
65 1 day
75 eat it now

Steely mentions aging cuts of meat in the fridge.
Beef is certainly aged in this way, either dry or wet aging but I suspect with with shop bought beef you can pretty much guarantee it was hung at least until rigor was over, and that the animals them selves were not well past their prime. Additionally you do not have the added complication of them loosing condition during the rut..

With those differences in mind, I will be very interested to see if post butchery aging of the tough venison has any beneficial effect..

You're making me wish I would have paid to get some home! Those tenderloins were great.



Here in NC, you may shoot a deer in the morning and it be in the 20's or 30's, but by afternoon it may have warmed up to the 50's - 60's. About my only option is get it out whole if I'm close to a vehicle or quarter and pack out if not. I usually quarter and pack out. Even if I can get it out whole, it is a rare occasion when I could hang it whole and let it age a few days...because of the daytime temperatures. The other option is taking it whole to a meat processor and let them hang it in a cooler. I have done that, but never been satisfied with the results of their cutting/butchering.

And yes, most of mine I cut up at the kill site are a bit on the tough side. But I usually also cut it up within a day or so. Maybe this year I'll put the bagged meat in the fridge for a few days before cutting up.

That mulie Rock Chuck mentions above however, was primo. We gutted and left it overnight, then the next day quartered and trimmed off everything, then we kept it with us(in cool temperatures) in bags for another 2 days before final butchering and wrapping.

I went back and read ^this^. I'm surprised to see 55� and 65�. Is this correct? It seems to me to be warm. I'd be somewhat afraid to hang a deer for two days in 55�-60�.

However, if it is safe then this opens up some windows of opportunity that otherwise I considered closed!

Just never would have considered hanging a deer for a day at those temps.

Note that I said 'at an increased risk of spoilage'. That chart's for demonstrating the affect of temperature on tenderizing, not for storage. You don't want to hang meat long when its that warm. Once it's cool, you can get away with short times that warm, but I don't recommend it with a hot carcase.

I just butchered a cow elk that the quarters hung in the shade at camp... 30 the low, 60ish the high. Shot sat morning That's good here in az and I could have let it hang more but I'm busy the rest of the week.

Once the initial chill sets in the meat it's easy to keep in if you keep it out of the sun.

Elk we kill in sept are hung in temps of 45 to 85 and after three days and driving home, the meat is cold enough you need to take a break from cutting to warm your hands up.

I shot a big mule deer in the low desert and 90+ temps, low probably 60ish... uncover it at night to chill and cover with a old sleeping bag during the day to hold it in. It was perfect and cold.

I'm very picky on no gamey taste with my meat. Just take care of it and it won't sour.

Kent

Another question, I know deer "bleed out" when punched with a bullet.
However, I've had instances(more often than not) where deer were quartered and packed out immediately after the kill, and it seemed the meat had a high blood content.

That meat we cut up last Monday had virtually no blood left in it.

I've heard of people hanging a whole deer, with hide on, with a couple bags of ice stuffed in the cavity. This was to allow a short time of ageing but also to allow blood to drain from the meat. The ice was necessary because temps could rise into the 50's which was considered too high.

Hide on is disaster here, other places may vary?

Wife and I were driving home Sun from camp and a truck loaded with camp and a whole cow unskin't, just gutted thrown on top. About 75 degrees where we were and getting lower toward Phoenix where it was 90.

Unless he just killed it and was running it to the butcher fast, that was one nasty critter and I've seen plenty like that.

kent

The blood content depends on how you hit them. You got the lungs and the heart kept pumping until it ran dry. If you take out the heart, it can't pump the blood out of the meat. A heart shot is quicker, but I prefer the lungs just for that reason.

Kosher Jews cut the throat in a ritual. The idea is let all the blood pump out to satisfy the Old Testament law to never eat blood. Of course, the Jews, being Jews, added all kinds of other rules to it that the Bible doesn't have.

I once saw a documentry about Israeli arab hunters in Israel shooting these small gazells.
They were armed with shotguns do to local laws, but still aimed to wound the animals so they could be finished off by cutting thier throat to comply with "halal" (sp?)

So, re: another thread discussing high shoulder shots. You take out the CNS and the deer drops right there. I assume everything shuts down, including the heart so, one could assume that a DRT shot would produce meat with a high blood content, unless it could be hung and allowed to drain.

On a deer leaving the hide on or off is dependent on the temperature, in my opinion. So is hanging it outside. If there is any doubt, it goes in the fridge, quartered. miles

On neck shots, I tend to bleed the animal as a matter of course..With heart/lung shots, not so much..Usually, I am mostly concerned with getting the animal gralloched and hung up in a reasonable time and in a way that avoids any further conamination, ie don't bust the gut or the bladder!

You guys might consider bringing this guy along with you next time. He can debone one in 8 minutes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xijmge8_NJw

I have to say that is very impressive..I guess its a skill that gets picked up after a lot of practice..Me? I am just glad its called "butchery"!!

Edited to add, I've never tried handling a carcass with one of those hooks, but every time I see one in use, they strike me as being very handy..

Thats why they invented barbecue sauce

Holy crap! Does that guy ever know what he's doing!

Duplicate post sorry

It's all in having the right tools...and knowing exactly where every joint and muscle is is a tool.

Anybody using a Wyoming saw? I used a Cabela's gift cert to buy one 7-8 yrs ago and have never used it.

I gut and haul to the deer processor.

Mike

I wouldn't use one, even if I didn't just 'gut and haul'.....

Oregon plates?

JEFF-O?



Kiddin'.

Please explain

a hatchet is faster..... the only use for a saw in the back country is for firewood IMO.....

I get you.

Either would be in a pack and brought out as needed so guess I could take both and try them out.

Mike

and you can't make, or drive tent stakes with a saw.

I use the big one for elk if I'm going to quarter it. We have a regular butcher saw at camp, bone out I use a small filet knife.

So it depends and we get 5 to 10 elk a year, so the saw gets used some by someone.

I have a small one also but it seldom sees action... if I can actually find it when needed.

Kent

Just grilled some round steaks while grinding the chunks from the elk.

Zero gamey taste, about as tender as a cattle sirloin, which is good for round. Tasted fantastic.

High shoulder DRT, no tracking time so field dressed 10 mins after, quartered/bagged to get it out, skin off in less than an hour. hung in the shade 30/60 degrees wrapped in sheets, butchered day four.

Typical example of our group here in Az.

Kent

I carry a Sierra saw but I only use it for cutting off antlers if I'm a ways from the road. If I'm close enough to the road to carry out the whole head, I have a battery recip saw that's much faster.

For deer, I carry a Sagen saw to split the pelvis and the sternum. Splayed out the carcass cools faster which never hurts even though it's in the low 40's or colder here.

Otherwise it's gut in the field and let the coyotes etc. dispose of it. If we can't drive to the carcass it's a short drag and into a garage or shed to hang for a couple days at least, then skinned and boned out. So I can't speak to cutting one up in the field.

I skin and quarter big game in the field whether I can get to them with a vehicle, horse or foot--it's easier that way im my experience. If I have to backpack them out, or if the weather is warm and they need to go into a ice chest for transporting a long ways, then I bone 'em out.

Im surprised at Rock Chuck's experience too--I can't recall a difference in the tenderness of the meat when boning immediately vs waiting a day.

Casey

I'm glad you said that. I was afraid to get jumped on for saying it. I bone out in the field, and it seems tender to me. Haven't you guys ate the backstraps at camp during the hunt? Was it bad?

How soon after the kill do you bone them? Immediately, after a few hours, or the next day? Its been my experience that waiting at least a few hours, until they're good and stiff, makes a lot of difference.

I usually go to work pretty quick unless it's cold out, but it takes me awhile to get to the backstraps. I'm old and slow, so I pace myself.

As soon as pictures are taken. Never had an issue.

Makes me wonder if our definitions of "tender" vary...my experiences mirror Rock Chuck's. I take the straps out last when taking a critter apart in the field to maximize the time they're next to bone. I also don't debone quarters if I don't absolutely have to.

Not directed towards anyone in particular...just a thought.

This might have a lot to do with it. I've never eaten any meat in my life that was too tough to eat. We all have different views on what's too tough to chew.

Lots of toothless folks eat at taco bell, because the food is easy to chew

That and they're willing to eat crap!

Don't they just leave them out for the polar bears?

If I field dress and haul a deer back to the house to hang it up, by the time I am rested enough to get back to skinning and deboning it has hung plenty long enough IMHO. with work etc. it might take a day or two to get a deer freezer wrapped. Took me 3 days to freezer wrap my moose solo. I was working as fast as I could because afternoon temps were pushing 50F. Lucky for me the nights were below freezing though. That was probably the best game I ever ate.

Sure you can - also with a machete. I've done it often- just cut a club and use that to drive the stakes. Ain't no trick to make stakes out of inch thick stuff with either, if there's some around.


Might be a problem with 20 inch diameter trees tho....

And the saw is lighter- important if one is back-packing. Also handy for cutting snow blocks out of left-over slides from the winter before for cooling meat.

I'm on the bandwagon.. Wait 'til Rigor Mortis has passed.

I've killed caribou at 20 below, gutted them, left the hide on, skinned them a week or more later. Some of the best most tender I've eaten, so maybe that thing about "not cooling too fast" is accurate (winter caribou hides are such good insulators that one can sleep on them in the snow with skin side down and not melt the snow). Thinking back on those I've immediately field skinned and quartered at below freezing temps, I'm kinda leaning toward the opinion that maybe they were a bit tougher. But then, they don't get properly "aged" generally either.

Above freezing temps are a whole 'nother matter, and depends on how much above freezing it is.

Therein lies the problem. I hunt the muzzy season, and even though i'm at timberline (11,300 ft) It can be warm, and I hunt alone. My goal is to get the meat out as fast as possible. I don't need to camp, because I live in the unit I hunt, so getting the meat back to my Jeep as fast as possible is important.

I have no option but to bone it fast, and get hiking. Tough or not. I eat it all.

At that altitude, I've had success during the ML season leaving the bone in and hanging it in the shade for a few days. No matter how warm it is during the day, it'll be cold enough at night to cool the meat well and as long as it stays in the shade during the day it's fine. This year I killed my bull Monday morning and packed out the last of the meat Thursday morning, it was fine. Each day when I'd take down some meat to bone out, it was cold enough to make my hands ache and force me to take breaks to warm them.

Not a bad idea. I was always worried about another hunter coming along, and inviting himself to some meat.

Well, I wasn't too worried about that, it didn't take me three days for nothing

Sure sounds better than trying to do it the same day. I'm too old for that anymore.

Doing it AK style.





Button buck like that bones to about #45.

Hung a doe off the ground on Sunday. Should have taken pics of that. Oh, well.

Doing it CO style:

Just caught this thread. Interesting. The bull I shot this year has both - a quarter with bone in (first trip down the mountain) and a quarter boned after having set for 3-4 hours. All meat has been in my cooler on ice since day 1. I'll mark the packages - bone in/bone out and see if I can tell the difference. I've usually left bone in when transporting with horse but de-bone when it goes on my back. I don't recall a difference. We'll see this year.

BTW: I normally use the smokepole method on elk. Shoot, quarter, hang, go get the horse.

Nah, that's not the "smokepole" method, my method is much more streamlined, I eliminate a step. You don't have to go get the horse, because he's standing right there.

Quarters are 'posed to look like this, in CO.



Natives, whack the lower legs off.....



Since there is nothing edible on them, they get left in the field as an ol' injun spirit-appeasement, good-luck kinda offering.

I always heard natives whack off, just never knew what it meant. Where'd you get those antelope quarters, way up in the woods like that? And what's the little yellow tent for? Is that what they call a "powder room??" Is that where natives keep the stack of "Sports Illustrateds??"

Seriously though. None of the bones made it into the pack.

This ^^ , treating two parts of the same animal differently, is likely to be the only sure, definitive way to tell if there is a difference.

Be sure and post your findings bwinters. I'm going to keep an eye on this.

It's a good test, but I'm not sure it's the only way. I'd say if you use the same animal and compare a very tender cut (backstrap) that was boned out immediately to a cut from the hindquarter that's not as tender but was left on the bone for a day or two, and the backstrap is very tough while the hindquarter is tender, that's pretty good data. Good enough for me anyway.

Not sure if it was this thread or not, but I said I was going to do an experiment of aging a tough old bull elk steak in the refrigerator for 10 days. Today that time was up, I grilled a round steak to about medium rare. Just so there was a little bit of pink left in the center.

The meat was " marginally" a bit more tender than before this aging. This bull meat was in the freezer since 2009 ( CO 201 bull) with no freezer burn.

The bull was done with the no gut method,but the leg bones were left in. It hung over night, maybe two nights before I put it on ice at hthe elk camp.

Guess I'll keep grinding it as I need it.

Early Tues morning I shot a cow that knew Noah personally. I know she was old enough to have come over on the ark. She was where I could slide her down a snowy hill 150 yds and get the pickup right to her. I gutted her on the spot and took her to the bottom where I skinned her. We got her in the pickup whole and didn't cut her up until late afternoon so she was well stiffened.
We ate some round steaks and loin chops yesterday and she's acceptably tender.
I KNOW that if I'd gone gutless and boned her early, she'd be a lot tougher. I've done that too many times over the years.

Why would you go gutless 150 yards from a vehicle? What if the situation was further than 450 feet?

Its faster and a lot less mess to work in, even if you're parked right next to it.

I would second that. The only reason I could see to gut one is if you're alone and can't roll the animal over to do the other side. Not such a big deal with a deer, but it can be with an elk.

I guess I was midunderstood. I use gutless exclusively. Shooting a critter 150 yards from an open road (I am assuming) is much different than it is for folks that don't hunt along roads.

There is a pronghorn in my pack from a couple weeks ago. Usually I bone as well, but in this case these are bone in quarters. It beat dragging the critter two miles and suprise, my first steaks, eaten that evening, were not leather. In fact, they were amazingly tender.

I don't have a lot of experience with pronghorn but I've never had any that was tough. Seems they're a different animal altogether.

On the average, my elk have to be packed a mile or more but if I can find one near a road, I'm certainly not ashamed to take it.
Taking quarters out bone-in usually isn't a problem. It's when you remove the bone that the meat fibers contract and add to the toughness. The backstraps are another matter. Unless you want to haul the whole spine out, they have to come off.
I've used gutless for many years, doing it either way as conditions dictate. In my experience, the ones that are completely boned right after the kill are the tough ones.

Pronghorn rigor is much different. Pretty much like mule deer in my opinion.

Like others have said, it depends on the situation. Let each scenario dictate whether to bring a critter out whole & gutted, quartered bone in, boned out by gutted or gutless method. Confidence with all of those gives options to a man who knows his limitations.

I opted for gutless on a buck less than 100 yards uphill from my vehicle, though deadfall all of the way downhill.

If I have time, I'd rather gut them, leave them till the next day and then bone out. I did that last week on a mule deer, killed before sunrise 260 yards from a road. He was skinned to cool and hung in the shade where he fell till the next day, then boned out and taken home to cut up. I've boned out a number of backpack bucks within minutes of when they hit the ground, however, and they have been good to eat, maybe a little tougher. While living in an apartment I boned out everything in the field.

For context: have backpacked deer up to 8.5 miles, 11 miles for an elk, etc. On the other end of the distance spectrum, dragged one buck to the house whole.

HaHa! Sorry, not laughing at you mtmiller. Just laughing of the absurdity of suggesting Rock Chuck being a "road hunter". Having gotten to be friends with him and hunting with him, I can assure you he's a tough bird that can put a hurting on this N.Carolina dude chasing him up the Idaho mountains! He doesn't quit either!
RC shot this gal on up the hill a ways and was blessed with some fine snow to sled her right to the pickup, in addition to finding her near a road.
I can assure you, the mule deer we shot a few weeks earlier was no where near ANY road! We packed it out in pieces, after a night of cooling on the carcass. (Okay, we "packed" it out on llamas! Pretty snazzy way to roll!)
Point is, we let it cool on the carcass.

Gutless makes sense. Even it it's beside the vehicle. I've sworn I'd never drag another one out. But I'm starting to second guess that. The point is, some are finding this makes them a bit tougher at times. In my situation, being in NC, oftentimes hanging a deer up for a day or so before quartering or boning isn't practical because of the temperatures. And sometimes where I hunt, there's no way ANYONE is bringing a deer out of there whole! But in the event I get one that isn't in some hole somewhere, and temperatures permitting, I may try dragging and hanging for a day just to test this theory.

Bottom line, if possible, leave it whole until rigor mortis is set in and perhaps the meat will be a little easier to chew.

I didn't say he was a road hunter. He mentioned he shot elk 150 yards from a road, hence my post.

I have eaten deer that were boned immediately and others that were allowed to set over night. I haven't seen the difference. I am sure you experiences are more diverse. Thanks for sharing.

Up until a few years ago I would've said the same thing. Then I shot a buck right at dark and cut it up within minutes, the muscles in the backstrap were still quivering. I left the quarters with the bone in. I don't think the buck was older than 3 1/2, and the meat was good but those backstraps were probably the toughest I've ever eaten. That kind of got me interested in the whole subject.

If I can remember to do it, next deer I kill I'm gonna leave one backstrap on the carcass overnight and bone out the other and see if there's a difference.

Mtmiller, didn't mean to come across as a wise ass. On the contrary, my experiences are not more "diverse". In fact, my experiences are very limited compared to most on here. I deer hunted a little back in my teenage years but ended up giving it up on favor of waterfowl, upland birds, trout and the occasional turkey. Just picked it back up a few years ago. Of the deer I have managed to kill, most I considered tough. And most have been field butchered and packed out. So while I'm not exactly a newbie at all this, if someone is on to something about deer being more tender if allowed to age a bit on the bone, then I'm game to try it... because my experience butchering is NOT diverse enough to draw hard and fast conclusions.

Don't let that stop you snubbie, it doesn't stop the rest of us.

Ha! True that!

I'd go gutless if I ran over the elk, because it won't fit in a Jeep Wrangler, and I couldn't pick it up anyway.

Ain't figured out how to get the rib meat out doing the gutless method. Besides, it only takes a minuted to gut on.

True dat re time to gut. Gutless doesn't bleed out as well either making for more liquid in the meat. Re why do it: The most recent gutless I did was a horrible mess of gutshot. Hmmm... this is a time for gutless.

How? Peel the hide down from the back and zip between ribs to get rib meat. Easy.

Re rib meat: On some small deer, the rib meat is simply not worth trying to retrieve. A small buck last week had paper thin layers of meat wafered sporadically through heavy layers of fat, impossible to seperate from the less tasty tallow and in total not enough to mess with. I retrieved about 2/3 of the rib meat but after taking it home finaly tossed it all, both the strips from between ribs and the sheet layer cut off the outside with a fillet knife. On some deer however, there is plenty of meat on and between ribs and well worth retrieving. Like gutting method: decide when handling the specfic critter.

Not worth trying to retrieve has not much to do with game salvage laws. Leave rib meat on a deer in Alaska and watch what the brown shirts do.

Deer don't have much between the ribs but elk have enough to make it worthwhile. Idaho doesn't require taking it from between the ribs but I do it anyway.
On elk, I prefer to skin from the belly up unless it's too hard to turn over. The reason is that elk have very long hair on the neck and along the spine. It's very hard to keep it off the meat while skinning up only leaves the hair on the belly where there's very little meat anyway. I'll lay it on 1 side, skin what I can, then remove the meat. Roll it over on the hide and repeat. I've done it from the top down and also by slitting the hide end to end midway down, whatever's the easiest.

You can leave rib meat in Colorado. I take it on elk, but not deer.

As always, common sense reality bows to law, and we must comply.