Has anyone used this combination on game? I worked up some loads using the 139 Scenar and the 140 Accubond and both shot amazing groups just trying to decide which one to go with. The BC is quite a bit higher on the Scenar which makes me want to run it but can’t find any testimonials of its performance on game only comments where guys plan to load some up.

I'd use a match bullet for match shooting and shoot bullets designed for shooting animals for shooting animals. What is the difference in BC and what difference does it make at the ranges you anticipate killing animals?

I put a 139 Scenar from a 6.5x55 into a middling size bull moose (1000+ pounds) a few years ago. The shot came at about 75 yards and its terminal performance was exceptional. It's an excellent bullet on targets and flesh/bone. I've not put the 136 grain Scenar into an animal yet, but I would like to if for nothing else than to have some reliable feedback on its terminal abilities. My shooting with the 136 on steel and other inanimate objects leads me to believe that it will be more of the same.

PM Pat (Scenarshooter) about the 139 Scenar and how it works on game animals.

I’m convinced.

DF

I can understand being hesitant about using a target bullet for hunting. But in this case I've seen enough to convince me it'll work.

Check out this thread if in doubt.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...via-scenar-bullet-pix-please#Post4977783

Both of you should read the thread "Deceased via Scenar" and you both will be enlightened.

I’d read that thread before, it led me to run 155’s in the 06. Didn’t remember there being so many 6.5 Scenar posts in there, probably because I had no interest in it at the time. thanks for reminding me of it.

That thread prompted me to give the 139 Scenar a try in my 6.5 Swede. From a couple weeks ago - 40 yard shot tight behind shoulder exited breaking offside shoulder. Exit hole was small - could just work a finger into it, lungs were completely liquefied and top of heart was gone. I've heard they work well at long range too I would expect similar results in the Creedmoor...

Nice! Thanks for the report.

Consider me a convert. I went through the first 15 or so pages. I believe that bullet is better than adequate for hunting. I wonder how though. The cross sections I have seen show a comparatively thin jacket a small opening and a substantial cavity. When I read about Sierra match bullets being used for hunting, I don't see the same almost universal praise, yet the bullets appear very similar in construction. What's Lapua's secret?

I, too, was concerned about the thin jacket.

I think it must be the lead alloy and hardness.

DF

A lot of those Scenars were driven all the way through large animals at MAGNUM velocities. That bullet is unquestionably tough. Tough and accurate. What's not to like?

Tough and accurate, with a high BC for lighter weights like the 30 cal 155, 6.5 mm 123, and 7 mm 150. And short ogives that make it easier to seat the bullet near the lands within magazine constraints.

The 123 Scenar is one of the tightest shooting bullets in my 6.5 Creed. The 139 is the best so far in my Swede.

After Pat's extended experience with Scenars for hunting, what's not to like.

Accurate with great terminal performance. Who cares if it's a target bullet, it works like a champ on game.

DF

Typical performance from my 260 is caliber-sized hole going in, golfball-sized exit. Penetration is never a concern and expansion is always obvious. I think the hollow front end gives them delayed expansion similar to bergers.

They seem to be tougher than Bergers.

DF

I've always thought the jackets on the Scenar were a bit harder than Berger Jackets.

Be interesting to run a Rockwell test on the two....

Pat,

You think a harder jacket could contribute to that much difference in terminal performance?

Wouldn't it also take harder lead alloy to make the Scenar that much tougher than some other target type bullets with similar jacket thickness?

It's hard to argue with success. They seem to have bullet making pretty well figured out.

DF

Might be the ogive like the Bergers that delay expansion some. The Lapua brass is harder than most maybe they use a similar harder alloy for the jackets.

Pat just made a new convert of me. I will give the 139 - 6.5 a try for next year in my Swede. The 130 Bergers are deadly but a little too explosive for my use at shorter ranges.

Can someone please illustrate me on the differences between the Scenar, and the Scenar "L".

I was going to place my order and noticed about an "L" version I had not heard.

I will be using them for hunting, in a 6.5 mm cartridge with a 1-8" twist.

I have been looking at their specifications in Lapua's web page, but I cannot discern any differencers, performance-wise on game, between them.

I see the have a great following from some of you and I would really appreciate your comments and help.

Tnah You in advance,

You won't find any discussion of performance on game on their website because they don't market scenars as hunting bullets. Scenar L's are supposed to be more uniform and accurate, and they're marketed as better match bullets.

I know, but I was trying to find some indications on the thickness of their jackets, maybe on their core alloys... something that would give me a clue.

I was expecting some advise from those who have used both versions, the regular and the L, but not getting any, I thought maybe I could lean something from the manufacturer.

In any case, smokepole, thank you for you comments.

Send me a couple of each.

Was this ever done?

I always appreciate these discussions about specific bullets out of specific calibers with defined ranges or impact velocities. I think there are certain match bullets that can perform spectacularly on big game out of certain rifles and others that may seem similar on paper don't work as well. This applies to both hunting bullets and match bullets. For example, many people have had fantastic success with 180 Sierra Game Kings but out of a 300 Winchester, I've only witnessed them fail miserably. I've heard, that .338 215gr Sierra Game Kings are so hard that they often fail to expand at all, even at closer ranges and .338 Winchester velocities on critters as large as elk. I myself, have found that the 168 Berger Hunting VLDs in 7mm are absolutely fantastic on elk, black bears, deer, and antelope; however the only elk I've killed with a 7mm 180 Berger Hybrid was not so fantastic. It killed the elk but seemed to come apart very quickly and didn't penetrate as deeply as I would have expected a 168 VLD to do. I first tried a Berger 180 VLD on a cow last year and it killed the elk but appeared to act more like an FMJ than I expected. Maybe I didn't hit any bone but at about 300 yards there was a pencil sized hole for an exit and she probably lasted for close to a minute before she went down.

My buddy liked the results I was getting with 168 VLDs out of my 7mmRM and he tried the 30 cal 168 VLDs out of his 300 Winchester. It appeared to be a much more explosive load than I was getting. His last big game animal with these was a white-tailed buck from about 70 yards that blew a 5 inch diameter entrance wound on its side that he had to track for 1/4 of a mile. He said the blood trail was spectacular as it looked like someone had hosed down all the area on the left side of the trail with garden hose full of blood.

Results vary. I wouldn't say my experiences are more or less valid than anyone else's. I would say, when trying to match the results others are reporting, make sure you match the exact bullets with the reported impact velocities. Variations in caliber and velocities can yield very different results.

Cross

Very well said.

hat is why I use Accubonds, Partitions, TTSX, Hammers and others that are similar. Accuracy is fantastic with them all in my rifles.
I personally do not see any advantage to using bergers, matchkings or scenars on game.

Love those partitions and accubonds myself, but why don't you explain to us the disadvantages of the 139gr Scenar on game performance, since that is what this thread is about.

I do not have time to dik around with match bullets is my point. If some one wants to use them the MK's or the bergers by all means do. All my loads for my 40 plus big game rifles use Barnes, nosler, hornady, Hammer, GS Custom bullets. I have used them for over decades and they kill and shoot great. Now why would I want to work up loads with a scenar?

That is my thought on the matter. Notice I did not mention any disadvantages on the scenars. I just do not see any advantages for switching to them.

I don't give a rip what you shoot but if this is your Scenar excuse, you need to catch up...

Shoot what you want dude...what is your problem? You wanna use them go ahead!
Most of my rifles are WBYS.

Last thing I want to do is launch a 139 at 3400 fps from a 6.5 Bee at an elk. GET IT?

Lol Then what part of 139 scenar in a 6.5 creed made you open read and reply? I can’t believe someone that is too busy to dik around with match bullets and finds typing weatherby out to be too long has the time to participate in a thread about a bullet that’s of no interest?

No need to get emotional or insecure...

Scenars simply don't behave in the way you suggested. This is very well documented. I was simply pointing that out.

Fotis likes to let folks know anytime he can that anything less than Weatherby cartridges and Barnes bullets at a big game animal is selling yourself short....

That said, I was simply pointing out to him that his suggestion that Scenars perform like match bullets on big game is erroneous and that he needed to do a bit of research. He obviously did not like that suggestion....

I never said or insinuated same. Everyone likes what they like. I usually like stout bullets and big magnums. I also shoot cup and core bullets out of my lesser calibers 6.5's 6mm's 308 708 etc..

True Greg. Too bad he’s too busy to read some of the personal experiences from several of the members who use them. Several members that need no introduction on what all they’ve harvested with the bullets.

That's what commenting about something you have zero experience with gets you.......no credibility on the subject. When a guy, including myself, says something like "there's no advantage to such and such", it would help if you have some sort of data, experience, etc to base your opinion on instead of just spouting off.

I would like to know what the difference is also

Several samples of the Scenar L’s vs the earlier versions are stated more tightly controlled manufacturing. I’ve observed the L’s also are tipped in the 155 30 cal and the 6.5’s I have. Being tipped (smaller metplat) I guess they would resist opening as much as the standard Scenar’s. Also, some weights have more vacant tip ahead of the core, as on the 155. I suspect that’s a large part of their excellent performance on flesh and bone. I have not personally shot them into an animal, but after buying a few of those Mauser M12 308’s, I traded for 1000 of those 155’s and that’s what I’m loading.

Here is some of the old ignorance I"m guilty of sometimes just hanging on.

Some match bullets were and are not best. But ones like Berger, and Scenar have never shown me a failure. And while others have said SMK have failed I've yet to see that issue.

I've had FAR more issues from supposed hunting bullets like SGK and others have had issues with Barnes early ones while I've never seen an issue with a barnes personally.

From the net.

Lapua has recently undertaken a major program to make these outstanding bullets even more accurate. Not with a redesign in ballistics, but a refinement in all manufacturing steps. Using state of the art manufacturing capabilities and decades of competitive experience, Lapua has set out to tighten all measures and requirements, including their already famous quality control standards. Closer weight tolerances, tighter jacket wall concentricity standards, and greater uniformity in every dimension, starting from the gilding metal cup, lead wire and jacket forming, ending up to core-jacket assembly, boat tail pressing and tipping. Several new proprietary machines, manufacturing steps and advanced instrumentations combined to the Scenar-L manufacturing line never seen before in bullet production.

I shoot scenars year round in several guns, from steel to hunting. My last 6 big game kills were with scenars...from 150 to 400 yards.

John, Is it possible to get hold of the article, maybe buying that Handloader issue online?

I used to be a suscriber but, not liking the new set up, I quit when the new website was launched

I shoot pigs (some pretty big ones at times) and deer with a 26 Nosler and 100gr Scenars with great success. 4k fps.... Works for me.