So a reliable source told me that the Anti's in Arizona have convinced the Game and Fish Commission to out law Cougar and Bobcat hunting. I didn't see any other posts or information on the interwebs. Has anyone else heard of this? I was told oif I was approached by a signature collector, don't argue with them, but ask why do we need the legislation?

Check the SCI webpage. IIRC there was something there. Not a done deal. Join SCI, your local wildlife group and fight.

Don’t argue? Oh yeah, it’s Arizona.

Here is a couple articles on it.

http://www.sportsmensalliance.org/news/arizona-bill-ban-mountain-lion-bobcat-hunting/

https://www.drovers.com/article/complaint-filed-federal-trade-commission-against-hsus

According to this article, the HSUS is now gathering signatures to get it on the Nov. 2018 ballot for a public referendum. If it takes a public vote, it's a long way from winning.

LION HUNTING

I don't agree with the idea that if it takes a public vote it's a long way from winning. Even in Arizona the anti hunting group out numbers us. I sure hope I'm wrong, but I don't think so.

YES!!!!😀😀

The person behind it is Kellye Pinkleton. She first started in Ohio and is now in Arizona. She is a Director of the AZ Humane Society. And you know to a point I support some of their ideas like going after poachers but that is where the similarities in beliefs end.

I totally believe in culling Coyotes and donating the meat to the Avian Rescue Center. Those birds don't eat bird seed.

The Sportsmen's Alliance said to call your State Representative and ask them not to approve Senate Bill 1182. My State Senator is very much into the word ANTI ... Anti Hunter Anti Gun Anti freedom unless its affects his and his daughters rights to smoke weed legally whenever and wherever they want, then he is PRO Medical Marijuana PRO Social Marijuana PRO Socialism.

So you are with the antis?

You're not wrong and that's how you've got to think about these things. Never take it for granted because these outside groups will come in, spend a lot of money, distort the truth, and play on the emotions of the electorate.

That's exactly what happened in Colorado and now we have no spring bear season. Our state game management agency was precluded from weighing in on the subject too.

No not with the Anti's BUT I think we do share a couple of idealism's like NO POACHING and conservation. If the Lion and Bobcat population goes unchecked there will be a heavy cost in the Deer, Elk, Big Horn Sheep, Antelope, Javelina and other game and non games animals. It got so bad in Sacramento (around '93) once a child was attacked on a running trail along the Sac river. THEN Fish and Game issued a limited hunt (only they could hunt) for some cats around the area. All very hush hush.

Let me add that I am against poaching. I have a family member that believes if the only means by which a man has to provide for his family is to shoot a deer or Elk, then its ok. I love em but I don't share those feelings. YMMV

i was raised if you needed to kill something to eat that it is not poaching if you do it for money it was . when xwife left me with 2 small kids an bad in debt them dove an squirrells on the power line in front of the front of the house keep us from starving

If it goes to ballot you are toast. A ban on trapping, spring bear, bear baiting and dogs, went to ballot in Colorado...all of it passed.

Not necessarily. 25 years later the west is different. Back then the ballot initiative took hunters by surprise, their was virtually no organized effort to make a public argument in favor of spring bear hunting. Today the internet has changed things, making it much easier to raise money, organize, and make that public argument. Obviously it works both ways, but the spring bear, and bear hunting with hounds prohibition passed by the largest margin in Colorado ballot history ( 80% +). As much as Colorado has changed, there were many good arguments not able to be made in a public forum back then, and today would make it more difficult to pass.

The whole argument back then was cubs were being orphaned in large numbers. Truth was out of 300-400 bears killed each spring, roughly 4-5 lactating sows were killed, and the odds were a couple of those sows had lost the cubs in the den or shortly after emerging from the den.

The really ironic part?--today the fall bear season is killing more lactating sows than the spring season EVER did.

You're dreaming, Colorado is more liberal now than ever. Trump lost Colorado, and all those same voters would go against hunting, trapping and guns if given a chance.

Trump barely lost Colorado--and won 41 out of 64 counties. But the point was there was no argument in favor of spring bear season, when there were good arguments to be made.

Secondly, even a lot of those liberals in the ski towns are getting tired of bears on their decks and raiding their fridge. And the biggest change in Colorado are the ski towns are now dictating the politics in otherwise rural counties--towns like Steamboat, Crested Butte, Telluride, etc.......

some years ago the rules were changed on lion. you could not shoot a lactating female, or one with cubs. i had a game and fish guy living nearby that i knew and asked him at a 100yards how i was suppose to tell if a kitty was lactating.
he asked me how long i had lived in arizona, he knowing full well the answer?
He said the SSS rule always worked good.
a lion tag is i think still good all year, about 14bucks the last time i bought one.
I don't think even if it makes the ballot that it would pass.
Arizona is changing tho. i was once deep holed in some brush near a watertank definite lion country. As there was an elk leg chewed up where i was camping. Anyway this guy in his velcor spandex panties and bike stopped right in front of me, he had no idea i was there. So i said hi and scared the dribble out of him. I said that he looked like a slow moving deer to a cat, and he was in cat country. are you armed? of course not.
oh well, cats have to eat too. just a matter of time.
we have them living within the city limits of prescott these days. the guy's dead now, but i was at his house to give him an estimation on value on the firearms he had. he had a total enclosed wire run next to the dog door, dented, where a lion was after dog. Said lion often took naps on his front porch. This is in a subdivision. I asked him why in hell he didn't shoot it, not good it loosing its fear of people. Just didn't want to hurt it. he was originally from florida, so maybe that explains it.

The Commission should have an agenda and minutes web page.

Oregon lost hounds for bear/lion and bear baiting many years back via a popular vote. The anti's put up videos of bear and cats falling out of trees into packs of hounds below and images looking like dump site bait stations with food wrappers and every sort of trash imaginable tossed about. All the biology and science issued by our agencies and commission was a lost cause against those images. In a second go around about 5 or 6 years later another vote simply served as reinforcement by about a 60/40 vote.

If the issue can go to a popular vote and anti's use similar images, one is facing a lost cause.

It will always be in our best interests as hunters to display the best behavior possible.

Edited: Looked up the link

Link to Commission Page

I'm curious to hear what Az. biologists say about cat hunting but if the signature collectors are out, and it's to be decided by the public, you know how that'll go...

In Alaska whack jobs went after black bear hunting and baiting and wanted to stop it all. Fortunately the Local SCI in Anchorage really came through and put out a good deal of money to help fight it. Eddie Grasser and his crew made a big difference. I'd say it's time to get behind SCI. Depending on how successful they are at fund raising, can make a difference. I raised a lot of money for another organization, but always made a point to attend their event and support it. It takes money to fight these people.

And I know how much good you did for the "other" org and thank you very much!!!

Is anyone surprised? They're never going to quit.

I read the article and it caught my attention how they use the terms "subsistence" and "trophy" hunting, "sport" and make the argument that since the cats are not killed for their meat that killing them should be outlawed. Subsistence hunting to me means hunting to keep from starving to death and there is practically none of that going on in first world countries today. All antis and most hunters will make the argument that a guy down on his luck who kills an animal out of season for food is a "poacher" and should have the book thrown at him because if he is in really bad shape he should seek public assistance.

Point being, reality is that the vast majority of people hunt for fun aka "sport".....and if antis are allowed to define this as a bad thing its not going to be good for any kind of hunting....and it appears that is their strategy to chip away.

It also occurs to me that perhaps the goal is an unchecked predator population as a way to end hunting. The introduction of wolves in the west has hurt deer and elk populations. Fewer animals mean few permits issued, fewer hunting opportunities, and in their mind they hope that people will gradually people give up on it. In an antis mind, its great for a wolf to kill an animal but a terrible thing for a person to shoot one.

Liberal bastids

If it goes referendum, less chance than Cali or Wash for a ban than in AZ. Still, throw biology out the window. We are up to our holes in lions here.

As with bears, they will still be killed by ranchers or as nusience animals by game & fish. Only difference is that nobody will be making any money off the hunts.

Even in the Valley, I don't think that they can get enough signatures on the petition to influence legislators. It may happen some day, but not anytime soon in Arizona.

Here in Washington we lost baiting, hounds, and trapping to a ballot initiative. The worst thing about the loss was all the "hunters" who voted in favor of the ban, because they didn't hunt that way,didn't approve, or just didn't care. We are our own worst enemy.