Anyone used them?

Thoughts?

I don’t trust anything Speer makes to stay on the market very long.

I know what you mean, I think they introduced the Gold Dot bullet in 1995. I wonder if it's gonna make it.

I have used the .284 140's for Whitetails with excellent results in a Kimber 7-08. Running the 62 grain .224's in a Kimber Montana .223 but they are not showing the accuracy that I'm looking for. I'm gonna stick with it as I bought a 1000 of them.

Crap. I also bought 1000 of the 62s to shoot in a pair of Kimber 223s. Haven’t started loading them though.

Looking on the Speer website I see no Gold Dot Bullets in .284/7mm. What am I missing?

I’ve used them in the 75gr flavor in my 5.56’s and the 140’s in 6.5 CM and 260 Remington. While not the highest bc’s they shot well for me and had good terminal performance out to 450 yds or so.

I would rate them a good average middle of the road bullet, better then most cup and cores but not quite as tough as the higher end bonded stuff. Definitely a fine bullet for most guys uses.

Last time I looked at their website the GD rifle bullets were designed for defense and law enforcement.

Ive used, and will continue to use ( cause I stocked up on them...) the 55 grain Gold Dot in the cf .22s

Slowed down they make a good fur friendly load for predator hunting ( about 2600 fps)

At normal speeds Ive used them successfully on deer, black back and pigs with great performance.

I'm in the middle of testing them in my CZ 7.62x39. Preliminary tests are looking good but, can't finish until the plague scare is over.

Speer sells them in .224", .264:, .277", .308" and .310".

Woods walker: would you be so kind as to let use know if that 140 gr 7mm bullet you are using is actually a Speer Gold Dot? If so, I’d like to try to find some. Thanks

Check the Federal Fusion line of ammo. Unless I am mistaken, I'm under the impression that this line of ammunition is using Speer Gold Dots. I see on the Federal web site a 120 & 140 7-08 load. The .224's I bought in bulk from RMR several years ago.

Speer 75gr Gold Dot from a 22 Creedmoor. Muzzle Velocity for the load was 3250fps. One through the neck dropped him. Needed a finisher. The recovered bullet was fired at point blank, found just under the hide on the opposite side. I think if he hadn’t been laying on that side it would have gone on through.

The Fusions in 6.5/7mm (both 140 grain) have been very accurate for me and hammer deer.

The factory Speer 75 gr. Gold Dot is extremely accurate out of my AR with a 9 twist. I've got some factory 55 grain Speer Gold Dot ammo I may try in my CZ527 with a 12 twist and see how they shoot. I'd like to load my own with the 75 grain for my AR, but can't seem to find the components anywhere.

Where is the statement from Speer that these rifle bullets are bonded? I can’t find anything.

I thought Speer used a plating application process for building the bullet jacket versus bonding a tubular copper jacket to a lead core but the term right or wrong seems to be applied to both methods.

From the speer-ammo website:


"Their exclusive manufacturing process bonds the uniform jacket to the core one atom at a time, ensuring proper expansion and nearly 100 percent weight retention. The result is superb accuracy and immediate, threat-stopping performance".

So what do you think that means?

I give up, what does it mean?

Just quoted from Speer website:
“GOLD DOT RIFLE
Law enforcement professionals trust the Gold Dot® bullet design with their lives every day. Now we offer you the same performance in a new line of personal protection rifle bullets.”

It would lead me to believe that it is not a bullet intended for hunting, but who knows? Happy Trails

It would seem that a bullet that is good for personal protection would also be good for deer-sized game. It's puzzling to me why Speer would not promote them for both.

In fact I emailed Speer some time ago, asking about the 120 6.5 Gold Dot for hunting in a 6.5CM. The response was that the 140gr would be better as the 120 is designed for Grendel velocities. But the email included this statement: "These Gold Dot bullets do make an exceptioinal hunting bullet...."

Well, I called Speer a few weeks ago when I started load development with the 123 gr. .311" Gold Dot to see what the minimum velocity was for reliable expansion. I had a fair load running 2200 fps, told him my plans for deer hunting, and he said that would expand fine on deer all the way to 125 yards but, at 150 expansion would be minimal.

I bought a bunch of them on super-sale at Midway. They are the 140, 6.5s. I killed a half dozen deer with them and never caught a bullet. I load them to 2740 in my Creed, as higher than that and they did not seem to shoot as well. They are bonded. It does not matter how they market them. I would not hesitate to shoot an elk with one. They shot sub-moa out to 400 on my range and I did not go out farther-didn't need to.

What exactly is different about shooting one 200lb mammal from a different 200lb mammal?

I guess none. Just stating what Speer posts. Have it anyway you want it!

So why make a post about it, if you don’t actually know what it means?

The written word can be hard to understand the intention behind it. I’m not trying to be rude. I am genuinely curious to the thought process behind anyone offering a declarative opinion about a subject when they don’t actually understand that subject.

Broadside shilouette?

Number 1: I never offered a declarative opinion about the subject.
Number 2: I fully understand the subject. Just stating what the manufacturer published about his product.
Number 3: Maybe you don't understand the written word as well as you think you do.
Number 4: You may not have to try very hard to seem rude. I didn't take your post as being rude, just odd with lacking sentence structure.
Number 5: I am not so sure you know WTF you are talking about either.... Which different 200 lb mammals are you referring to? Humans or 200 pound plains game vs. deer? Have you ever shot a human being? If not, your comparison is moot.

Happy Trails,
WAM

WAM, you might want to withdraw that 5th point.

Well, I think it necessary to clarify his presumption. He either knows or he doesn't know. Happy Trails!

I think what Gael is saying is, He knows....If you remain unsure, do a search on his posts and check his knowledge level on what he posts.

Precisely.

Are you and yours healthy, Sig?

This-




Reads as a declarative statement. If you understood the subject, then you would know that a “bullet designed for defense and law enforcement” by a major manufacturer is going to exhibit certain characteristics in tissue that lend itself to being an excellent game bullet. If you understood it, than you would know that Gold Dot rifle bullets, and the identically constructed Federal Fusions, are excellent rapid expanding, bonded, hunting projectiles that are a good middle ground between the deep penetration of copper monolithics with relatively narrow wound channels, and the wide wound channels of projectiles such as Hornady ELD-M’s, Berger’s, etc.
If you understood the subject you would know that “designed for law enforcement” means 12-18” minimum penetration after passing through multiple barriers. Gold dot rifle bullets will generally go 18-22” inches in game.

I’ve seen what Gold Dots/Fusions do in more than fifty 150-600 pound game animals, as well as what 124gr and 147gr 9mm, 180gr .40, 55, 62, 64, and 75gr .224, 90gr 6.8, and 150gr .308 do in people.

Thanks. I freely admit only seeing a couple of critters shot with a Fusion so my sample is extremely small, although it has nothing to do with my previous post. That small sample convinced me to stick with what works for me. I don't need to stick my finger in a light socket repeatedly to figure out the cause and effect. Happy Trails

I don't get the controversy regarding the intended use of the Gold Dot rifle bullets. The Speer Gold Dot bullet is the same as Federal Fusion bullet. They have a "molecularly fused jacket". Can you say "electro-plated"?

Federal claims the Gold Dot rifle bullets were the first bullets "specifically built for deer hunting".

Should be the end of the controversy, but I doubt it. If you're worried the Speer Gold Dots may not be suitable for hunting, get some Federal Fusion bullets instead. Problem solved. [laughing]

I'm not worried about Gold Dots being built for deer hunting (or anything else). Not manufactured in calibers for my go-to deer rifles - .257 and .284. Not butt hurt about it either! ROTFLMAO

Yes we are and I hope you are too.

So far so good.

Good to hear. When the stay away order is lifted, we need to meet for coffee.

^ about sums things up.

It's all about marketing (all about the money) the same bullet to a larger audience that performs well in both situations. Period.

CH: please understand, I am NOT looking for controversy or trying to extend the disagreements. Just curious. Could you share where you saw that quote?

I'm a huge fan of Speer Deep Curls (257, 270,’06) and have used Federal factory Fusions in a 280 on a few deer with success (when I forgot my handloads). And it certainly appears that the DCs, Fusions, and GDs share the same technology. I just remain curious why Speer does not promote the GDs for hunting as well as personal protection. (Guess that's why I was an engineer and not a marketing guru LOL)

The political climate does not allow major law enforcement entities to use “hunting” bullets. That is why.

Speer Gold Dots and Federal Fusions are identical- in some cases the exact same bullet.

Thanks, form. Appreciate the intel

So that fully explains why Speer doesn’t call it a “hunting bullet”. LOL!

Saying that the GD is not a hunting bullet, is like saying that the ELDMs won't kill animals. Don't buy the marketing bs.

Probably should have said "Fusion" instead of "Gold Dot" but they are the same process.

"Fusion® was the first rifle ammunition specifically built for deer hunting"

The text appears on various pages of the Federalpremium.com web site.
https://www.federalpremium.com/rifle/fusion/fusion-rifle/11-F308FS2.html



Ditto the engineer vs marketing occupation, although I would have avoided a couple big embarrassments the professional marketing people came up with..

Do you remember the Malt-o-Meal TV advertisement from the late 1950's or early 1960's era where they claimed it tasted "Twice as good as that other tasteless stuff"? The marketing person must have flunked grade school math.

Or the American Airlines magazine ad with the photo of a Captain standing in the cockpit? He was standing between and behind the seats, bent over them as if he had been looking at the instruments or something but had turned his head around as if to speak with someone behind him. His butt was centered in the photo and the caption was "Fly me".

In B school, we learned about how to use market segmentation to maximize profits.

Both Speer and Federal are owned by Vista outdoors. Looking at Speer’s website, they are set up to market the “Gold Dot” bullets exclusively for self defense and Law enforcement. In contrast, the Fusion is marketed towards hunters. In all probability, they come off the same assembly line and simply drop into different boxes.
But, you can buy 50 140gr 6.5mm Gold Dots for $23 vs 100 Fusions for $50.

https://www.federalpremium.com/reloading/bullets/fusion-component-bullet/11-FB264F2.html
https://www.speer.com/bullets/rifle_bullets/gold_dot_rifle_component_bullet/19-264140GDB.html

There is almost certainly a person at Speer 100% focused on selling Gold Dot rifle bullets to his target audience. Everything from ad $’s to packaging is focused on his target audience,
Similarly, there is a person at Federal focused 100% on selling “Fusions” to hunters.

If they ever admitted the Gold Dot was a hunting bullet, they wouldn’t get the extra $2 per 100 for Fusions.

Gold Dots are perfect for deer and antelope in my experience. Now I’ve only used the 90 gr and 115 gr in 6.8, and the discontinued 64 gr and 75 gr in .223 and 22-250 but all have worked perfectly. Granted my sample pool is small probably 50 head of game but they worked perfectly in every case.

Their accurate, affordable, penetrate sufficiently (in fact I’ve not recovered one) and terminal performance is great.

The 75 gr is predominantly what I use in 223 and 22-250 for game these days.

Give them a try I think you’ll like them.

A small sample, but I’ve used the 140 Fusion in my 6.5 CM to take five cow elk with perfect satisfaction.
I’ve not yet recovered a bullet either - all pass throughs.......

Makes sense. I recall a few years back when the “law enforcement “ 223 ammo used the 62 grain (I think) TBBC bullet. Once that it was known that a bonded hunting bullet was being used for law enforcement applications the load changed. Imagine that.

At the risk of stirring up more "muck", I'll ask again for any knowledge or experience with 120gr .264 Gold Dots in a 6.5CM (so MV=2900ish) on deer.

I understand they are made by the same company using the same "process" as Federal Fusions. .But while C&C bullets are made by generally the same process, terminal performance can be impacted significantly by varying such parameters lead alloy hardness and jacket thickness. The fact that Speer technician stated that the 12Os were designed for Grendel speeds implies, to me, at least, that there could be more variables than just the same process.

As I stated earlier, the 140s are awesome. You will have zero issues with the 120. Anything will kill a deer. The main thing is that your rifle shoots them well. Mine stays around 3/4 moa with the 140s and they penetrate very well.

Are the Speer Gold Dot 308 150grain GDSP-#24457- are these any good for Deer????

All Gold Dots will work for deer. They are a bonded bullet.

Have a bunch of the 62 gr 223 “Law Enforcement” rounds. I’m sure they’ll still work fine on deer like they did a decade ago