Just a cautionary note after reading a few recent horror stories on deposits paid and hunts disappearing.

The African hunting industry has a number of ways to book and pay for a hunt. You can book and pay through a Booking Agent, directly with a PH, or directly with a concession holder or landowner. All three are entirely different animals especially should something go sideways.

A lot of PHs are marketing hunts that do not have any real skin in the game in regards to owning hunting farms and/or concessions. They entice a hunter to hunt with them, but at the end of the day, they in turn have agreements with landowners or concession holders. You sign an agreement with a PH assuming they have everything 100% accounted for with the hunting farm/concession. This is all well and good unless deposits are paid and hunts don't materialize. As many PHs are living hand to mouth, deposits can be spent long before the hunt happens. This leaves the client and PH in a very difficult position.

Same situation can happen with concession holders. Suddenly the government decides to shutdown a concession just before hunting is to begin. This leaves the client struggling to either negotiate their refund (hopefully their deposit hasn't been spent) or have enough confidence to postpone their hunt until the following year.

Booking with an agent also has a potential downside. Many are far removed from the transaction and are basically independent agents working for a commission. While they can be very helpful for first timers, they are largely powerless to intervene for the client should something not go according to plan. In my opinion, they are more likely to side with the PH/landower as they represent their future business. Lose a client, no big deal. Lose access to hunts, that's the end of your business.

So as a client, make sure you ask all the right questions; even the uncomfortable one's. Be careful with deposits and make sure you fully understand the contractual side of the hunt. But know that if something does go wrong, you are a US citizen trying to get your funds back from a foreign entity - not an easy process.

And always remember TIA; $hit happens... a lot.

I have used 10 different Africa outfitters over the years and one lesson I learned is payment in full upfront removes incentive for Outfitter/PH to perform.

Would you pay a contractor 100% of the price up front to do a $10-20k or more renovation to your home?

I have found that ala carte deals i.e. full disclosed upfront pricing regarding daily rates, in country transportation and trophy fee for animals taken provides the best results.

This approach permits reasonable/partial deposit to balance risk for both outfitter and hunter, as well as motivates the outfitter/PH to perform regarding the actual animals hunted/taken.

On my recent trip in August my outfitter/PH (whom I have hunted with 3 times at 4 different locations) mentioned that for large budget hunts i.e. dangerous game , that having funds held in escrow by an attorney seemed to be most reasonable approach for both Outfitter/PH and hunter to avoid either party taking huge "risk"/ "$ loss" resulting from nonperformance of the other party.

Good luck and happy hunting !

I’ve used Atcheson’s as a booking agent. Most of what I owe gets paid AFTER the safari. If something goes South, they’re in the USA and you can sue them, and vice versa.

Yep because as soon as your dollars leave this country, you have lost 95% of your ability to ever get it back. Unless you know someone in Africa who can break a few knuckles...

I book direct with the outfitter. Three times.

No problems yet.

I guess that I've found an honest PH. Multiple hunts booked on a handshake. I choose to pay upfront by wire for most of the bill just before leaving for the trip. But I don't have to. Pay anything additional before I leave or when I get home. My choice.

My experience as well. Have booked several times directly with the same outfitter who’s been in business quite a while and who I’ve gotten to know quite well.

He’s always honored our deals, even when I’ve had to postpone a hunt for a year. Paid most of the hunts up front and can pay after for any additional trophies.

Getting to know who the outfitter and PH really are over several safaris helps greatly to build trust. Guess I’ve been fortunate.

I know a lot of great PHs who have fallen on hard times - especially during the covid years and others due to government interference. Survival, desperation, and temptation are funny things. I've been disappointed to see several folks who I have admired and trusted do things that are highly questionable.

My only advice is - CYA always.

Sounds like a well known outfitter/PH in Zambia.

Several guys got caught up in that mess.

But the same happened in Botswana when they closed concessions. Lots of clients lost their deposits.

Same here, 5 times.

I’ve been on 10 safaris. Never once had a problem with booking. I’ve hunted 3 times with one outfitter and 3 times with another. They have become family friends. I typically pay 50% up front to cover expenses, then write a check for the rest and any animals I shot after I return home. Never had a problem.

Outfitter reputation means everything.

Never trust, or take advice from a covtard. jdollar is the poster boy for dumbasss.

I didn’t offer any advice, just a comment. Nice to know I’m still living rent free in your head, though. ….

Fauci, the CDC, Biden, and the rest of your idols are living rent free in your head apparently......you still believe this horsechittt? I expect you'll dodge the answer as per usual. You're a lying coward.

True to form. Nothing of value to add to the topic, just personal attacks. Really pathetic….

Answer the question you lying covtard, coward. You still believe that crap or not?

Why are you hijacking this thread? Read the title.

We booked through a well known booking agent. PH lost his concession, but we ended up on another concession and had a fantastic hunt. IMO, booking through a well known agent helps insulate you, because their reputation rides on the PH’s they book with. Since the checks go to the agent in the US, they have skin in the game if their PH’s cancel.

Not being a player in the African hunting scene but with a bit of experience in the yacht charter and offshore big game fishing business I have to ask. Don’t any of these agents, brokers or lease holders use what we call an escrow over here in the US. I know they do in Europe and was told they have something similar in Australia and most civilized Pacific rim countries. By searching escrow.com I think you’ll find a lot of info. In the yacht and sport fishing charter world if an agent, broker or owner refuses an escrow that usually kills the deal

Rick

Well this suggestion fell flat on the floor and apparently got swept up to the trash

Rick

Rick:

Not sure anyone is actively using escrow accounts in the African hunting scene. While this is not a widespread problem, seems more operators are asking for day rates in advance and in some rare instances the trophy fee in advance. While I can understand paying day rates in advance, I do not see any reason to ask for or pay for trophy fees in advance. This is hunting and not fishing and this should raise some serious concerns and red flags for the client. Things don't always go as planned and sometime the wildlife simply refuses to cooperate. So if this happens, how exactly is the refund going to work?

I would be a little leary of any operator who demanded the full hunt in advance, unless as you suggested, someone else (in this country) was holding the funds.

At the end of the day, Caveat Emptor.

Thanks for educating me on the African Safari financial procedures and possible pitfalls. As I said originally I’m not a playersin this game so info like this is appreciated though not likely I’ll ever need it

Rick

Looks like JG has you.

Sorry for the hijack but this is the innanet.

Sorry as well for the hijack, but calling out these covtards azzholes should be done at every turn. Azzholes like you would have applauded the gov destroying the lives of people who were smart enough not to trust their bullchit. So f uck you

Spot on JG!

I could have sworn this was an African hunting forum. Guess not…..

Jdollardumbasss just doesn't get it. He's an unreliable coward who can't answer a simple question, but continues to give out "advice". What a stupidasss.

Every thread, every time.

in the campfire its to be expected the other forums need to be clean of the shhitshow.....bob

No, dumbf uck covtards to be clean from America. Any chance at pointing out you jackasses should be jumped on every time

you are a typical internet wannabe tuff guy.....first you assume everyone's status......then you run your mouth...

throw in a name or 2 .....I didnt say I disagree with what jg said ...in fact I do.just that is nice were one forum is all about that shiit.

pretty simple....bob

Covtards deserve all the schittttflicking possible. STRSWilson is a proven coward who refuses to take a stand.

My "stand" is I made my choice regarding the mRNA shot after spending a few hours on PubMed researching articles about Moderna and their testing and clinical failures.

Unfortunately, doctors, clinicians, and employees in many countries were forced to either push the shot or find a new job. I do not begrudge anyone who initially believed the garbage coming from the CDC, the WHO, Fauchi, and the government. Most folks trusted what they were being told including many doctors and clinicians. Some doctors stood up and lost their jobs over it, others went along with it to protect their job. Just like millions of employees who were faced with an impossible decision to get the shot or find new employment. I don't blame them, I blame the CDC, the WHO, and the politicians (including Trump) who set the stage for blanket immunity, shot mandates, and shutdowns.

And I find your constant drivel against JD childish and boring.

So that's my "stand" for your edification.

I think that makes that pretty clear.....long way of saying no jab......how about a couple of sorry for jumping to conclusions.....

now I will take my own advice and not muck this up anymore......bob

Fair enough, wish you'd have done that 6 months + ago when I asked you the same question a few times. Now, if this Jdollar idiot would do the same I'd lay off his lying asss, but not until. He's a fraud.

Just because you weren't paying attention doesn't mean that I have been silent about my opinion regarding the handling of the pandemic. In fact one of my very first posts here at 24CF was just exactly what I stated above. I would never tell someone not to get the shot anymore than I would tell someone to get the shot. I told friends and family to get the facts for themselves (and I provided all the research as to why they should not get the shot) before making a decision. Some listened and some didn't. Those who got the shot now wish they had not become part of the largest Phase II and III clinical trial in history.

I do not know Jdollar and I do not know what his current interpretation is on the facts as we now know them. Maybe he will speak out. But from my previous work in healthcare, I know a busload of doctors who will quietly tell you that they are incredibly disappointed in the CDC and how they hid the truth from them. And I know plenty more that are furious that their jobs were threatened in order to push the shot and for the doctors who spoke out and were destroyed professionally.

The pandemic was one of the darkest chapters in our nation's history and not for the lives lost but the way in which the government lied, covered up the facts, and forced their will on We the People.

Never Again!

I'm a COVTARD. Big mistake on my part, but I'm greedy...Point being, the covtard mantra as a tool to discredit ANY topic, is well, stupid, kinda like calling all the people who live in PA (where we have property). But remember this: it was my choice, right or wrong (and it clearly was), but I made the call. Stick to the topic, make your case and go from there.

I have zero issues with anyone who did whatever they wanted to do, and never have.

Same here and last thing Ill say in here on the topic. My problem is with the f uckers who spent time running those of us into the ground for questioning the bullchit "science" that was obviously a lie. There were numerous people on this very forum that did it. Some are getting lumped in with them that maybe shouldnt. Point is, millions of folks either died or were seriously injured by the poison shot and anyone at this present time that sticks up for it, is an ENEMY! Once again, my last point. Carry on

I book with the ranch owner. My last two trips I paid with a personal check per his suggestion. First trip I used traveler checks and it cost me half day driving to the bank. My last trip, June 24 to Olesfse, I paided the balance at the end of the hunt with a credit card, +3%.