Jorge has the urge to use his new love, the .405 Win on Syncerus caffer caffer.

If he can, as claimed by some, get 2000 fps out of a 400 grain Woodleigh, then I say go for it. 1750 fps? Use the Rigby.

Jeff I think the 300gr TSX @ 2250 is very marginal but will get the job done. When the TSXs came out they sort of threw the SD formula into a "rethink" mode, at least that has been my observation with the 338s, where a 210 TTSX outpenetrated a 250gr Hornady, at least in my very small sample of three hogs. If you can make the Axis/hog hunt this coming Spring, I'll bring it along and we can whack some of those huge 300 pounders Little Mike has out there. That said, no way I'd go buff hunting without my Rigby

What about 300 grain flat nose solids? They will penetrate.

Haven't tried those. Who makes them?

I got Barnes to make a special run a number of years back. 240 monolithic solids for the .45 Win Mag. At 1950 fps, they would penetrate a railroad tie at 25 yards!

I need to find a good test medium for these TSXs. I have a feeling they will penetrate weii. Still, the solid idea sounds interesting. I know TR had solids in his 405 back then but I don't think I can find any of those!

ET would do use it.

Well, the .405 Winchester has whacked a few Cape Buff before.... And, that was with the standard 300 gr bullets.













It's not the optimum choice of cartridge, IMHO, but it would probably work; especially with today's much better bullets.

In the interest of full disclosure, let me state up front that I have never hunted Cape Buffalo or any type of dangerous game. Jorge, however, HAS hunted Cape Buff before. If he's comfortable with the idea of using the .405 to hunt a buff, then I say go for it.

Now I think I will sit back and watch the debate from my comfortable armchair!

http://www.safarimuseum.com/

Cheers!
-Bob F.

If that little babe can do it, then I HAVE TO! Besides, this thing is FAST, I can probably get off three shots faster than I can with my bolt and that Rigby's long throw. This rifle is FAST men! BTW Bob, I installed that peep on a 94/22 Winchester and it works great. If I decide to put it on the 95, I'll have to order the whole sight and replace the existing one but it will not take away from the rifle's lines like the Williams would have. j

Yeah, I posted those photos just to give you a little inspiration!

Besides, to paraphrase that TV commercial:

"So easy a GIRL can do it."

Cheers!
-Bob F.

That was one spunky girl!

I can't believe nobody as yet has been apoplectic at the thought.

Call Barnes and see if they will run 500+ for you. I'm not sure if the new directors will still do such stuff,and you need to be patient, but it was worth the wait.

I believe Brittany Boddington used a Ruger No. 1 in 405 Win. on her Cape Buff. (However, I think she used 400-gr. Hornady's.)

As far as solids go, GS Custom has a 300-gr. FN solid and North Fork now offers a 400 grainer in both of their CPS and FPS profiles.

How about these in .410" and 400grains?

Could you reload this diameter in the .405 Win?

The 405 is a serious cartridge.

300 grains at 2200 fps ain't chump change.

Link: http://www.winchester.com/Products/...oint/Pages/default.aspx?c=405+Winchester

BMT

The only thing I'm apoplectic about is the steel butt plate.

Now if Jorge has the good sense to use a shotgun butt, with a Pachmayr decelerator or R-3 pad, I say the Buff will lose. Otherwise, Jorge's shoulder is the loser!

Hell he could DRIVE to Texas, let Bart hit him in the shoulder 3 times w/ a baseball bat, and buy a tough old range steer, he's have the same results, AND get to meet Bart!

Sycamore

She killed a water buffalo with 300 gr. Hornady Spire-points. Hornady does not make a 400 gr. loading for the .405 Winchester.

http://www.gunsandammo.com/content/bully-for-the-405

Hodgdon max loads will apparently push a 400 gr. Woodleigh to 1945 FPS. I would think that would be sufficient.

Makes it seem a little absurd to use this cartridge on whitetails, but I am doing it this November...

jorgeI, I believe over on AR, that Ernest Gilbert took his 1895, .405 to Tanzania and killed 1 or 2 buff with his. Can't remember, but thought he used woodleighs softs/solids. Might do a search and see what you can find.


maddog

Tony Makris shot a buff with a Win. 405, on Under Wild Skies.
One shot kill at close range.
Don't know what bullet tho.
Believe it was an original too.

Great posts guys, appreciate the interest. I've spoken to Ernest about his 405 and he indeed used the 400gr NFs for his 405. On a Ruger #1 you can seat the bullet out much farther plus it is a stronger action and you can push the 400gr pill enough to make a difference I would think. The 405 uses a .411 diameter so the GS bullet would not would I don;t think.

As to the steel butt plate, I guess I'm impervious to pain because I can shoot that rifle all day off the bench with no issues. It's really pretty mild, the only think one needs to be careful is not to "pinch" your armpit meat between the buttplate and the bottom of the bench. That hurts!

Tony Makris did take a buff at close range with an original 405 and factory Hornady ammo, one shot kill between the eyes. Anyhow, from everything I've seen about the TSXs that 300gr I think will penetrate sufficiently to offset the lousy SD. Hell, if another FEMALE took a 2500lb Water Buffalo with a factory 300gr Horndady with one shot, certainly *I* can do it as well with the added benefit of the TSX!

Brother, that particular female rates as one of the best ever, so losing one to Osa sure as Hell ain't a disgrace

Bout time you showed up! I'll give you a call later this afternoon after I get through with all my conferences.

I done been following yer fun!!! Use the 1895 for a lion and the Sharps for the buffalo

I'm with ET.

There is much to be sais about the penetration of the 45/70. Those last two posters are the guys who know.
Randy

Well, no lion in my future men, not at 80grand for the "chance" at one anyway! Amazing to think that in Teddy's day lions were considered "pests" and now they are the most expensive hunt in Africa with the exception of the limited Black Rhino hunting. jorge

Actually Randy, Jorge's Sharps is a 45-110. In other words-a Buffler Gun!! Only makes sense to kill a buffler with a buffler gun!!!

Thanks for the correction. I have no experience with 45/110, but have got penetration from left hip through right shoulder of a 1200 pound bull moose. It took out 6" of spine in the process with a 0ne inch exit wound.

I can only assume 110 vs 70 gr would be more powerful, If needed. That Sharps is brute for strong and accurate in Jorge's control.

Randy

I see no reason why it won't work if you use a proper bullet..I would opt for a North fork cup pont myself and feel fine with a .405 Win. and a few solids would be nice...

One might consider doing like one of my clients from AR did and that is have to have the gun long throated and the magazine modified and it will then duplicate a 450-400 and that's real buffalo medicine..I don't think 2000 FPS is advisable in a .405 Win. Mod. 95..In a Ruger single shot I would think 2000 FPS or even more would be doable and easy to do in that strong action, but I have not tried, so your on your own there.

My main concern is not caliber as I have killed buffalo with the 8x57, 7x57, 308 and 30-06. My concern is the Mod. 95 Win. which is the slowest to load action in the modern world..

I love my M-95 , 30-06 stoked with 200 and 220 gr. Noslers but it's a bummer to load in a hurry unless your happy to single load it after it goes dry and I have no problem with this on deer and elk but in a buffalo charge single loading has very little appeal to me!

Ray: Like I've said before here, given the great penetration of the TSX, I think the 300gr@ 2250 will suffice. If you click on the link for Boddington's article, his daughter killed a Waer buffalo with one shot with factory non-bonded 300gr Hornadys to the shoulder. Maybe there's some data (SAFE) for the 1895 with 400gr solids, but I haven't seen it but I suspect to keep pressures safe one needs to slow down a 400gr pill to 1850 or so to be safe. jorge

Solids are doable in the .405 but the problem is that many of the bores are not actually .411". I inquired with North Fork about this and they said it was best to get the barrel slugged. I also followed up with Winchester and they said that the groove diameter in MY 1885 was .413". Your mileage may vary!

Good reading here nonetheless:
http://www.northforkbullets.com/magento/blog/?p=156

I just dropped NF a note for a price quote on the 300gr solids.

jorgeI, Make it work! Stunt or not, It'll be a helluva story when you get back! Hell, read my thread, and see what me and my son are gonna do!


maddog

Hell yeah I'll make it work. Here's another "stunt" kill:






Oh and I did read your thread congrats and good luck!

jorgeI, just remember, ya gotta wear a pith helmet, when ya do the shootin!



maddog

Heck with the pith helmet! You are shooting a Winchester lever-action----wear a Stetson!

Nah, this hat is as "daring" as I'll get, lest I'd be called a clown again. I'm sensitive...

Jorge,

Hodgdon lists 1945 fps for 400-grain Woodleighs with H4895 at M95 pressures (44,900) so I wouldn't worry too much about getting sufficient velocity with that weight

I also wouldn't worry about the bore being an odd diameter. I have yet to measure a modern .405 barrel that wasn't .411" or very close to it. The bigger bores are all on old rifles--and even then I wouldn't worry about it too much, as I've gotten fine hunting accuracy with .308 bullets in .303 British rifles.

She actually used her Ruger No. 1 on Cape Buff as well. In fact, she wrote an article about this hunt for Sports Afield last year. Her dad also references her Cape Buff in his book "Safari Rifles II". You are correct that Hornady does not offer a factory loading for the 405 Win. with a 400-gr. bullet but they (the Boddingtons) had Hornady make up some loads using the 400-gr. bullets for her. The goal here was to replicate the original 450-400 performance. I am aware, and its been noted in this thread as well, that the No. 1 is much more flexible when it comes to hand-loads than the Win. M95 so you would be limited, especially with 400-grainers. Still, I think with proper load work-up, you could safely get to 1950 - 2000 FPS using these heavier bullets.

Jorge,

Just a little more inspiration for ya!!!









Cheers!
-Bob F.

oh yeah!

John, what do you think of my "theory" of using 300gr TSXs @2250 as opposed to bonded bullets of 400gr at slower speeds?

I think they would kill a Cape buffalo pretty dead.

Well you learn something every day!

BTW my rifle is brand new and it is .413" groove diameter. The problem is with the solids which will tumble in a larger diameter bore.

I take it you meant the 300 TSXs. As you can see by the target I have them shooting pretty tight and given what I've seen regarding the TSXs penetrating, I should be good to go. Hell, TR and the Johnson's did it with crappy cup and core bullets! Anyhow, I have an email in to North Fork to see what it would cost me for a run of 300gr solids. Still taking the Rigby though.

Hey Bob, I love that photo and quote from TR!

I wonder if the .413" groove diameter might be because Win. thought there might be a fair number of cast bullets used in their rifles, even new ones. I've always been under the impression that the original 405 Win. called for .412" bullets. Could this be another reason for the odd groove diameter?

I stole that pic from this online article:

Personally, I prefer the Winchester
by Philip Schreier
American Rifleman, January 2001
http://www.rarewinchesters.com/articles/art_1895.shtml


I think you'll enjoy reading it.

Cheers!
-Bob F.

I think either the TSX or a 400 gr NF will shoot any buffalo on the planet dead as our economy. I'd pick your shot a little carefully, but that is more a function of open sights than the caliber. There is a DVD out called the "Mopani Collection - First Season" which has some great footage of Dave Scovill using his Turnbull Winchester (.450) on buff, hippo, and elephant. Besides, if you are planning to hunt with Hulk Hogan again, I presume he could strangle anything giving you trouble. Use it and tell us all about it.

Never thought about it, but John Sharpe does have that WWF thing going, doesn't he?

I think it was Gail Weintrab ( sorry about spelling) that described John as Tarzan. Gail is Harry Selby's daughter, so she is not easily impressed.

Jorge, you and either rifle are up to the task, but I, for one, understand taking a rifle proven in the jess previously. A lot of the fun comes with pre trip planning and dreaming. We know dreams are not theexclusive domain of the young.


Randy

You guys should go to Sharp's website and look at some of his other WWF pics in there. He's my age now (56) but he can still hurt you

On the bullets, I'll see what North Fork says about the solids, if they are not terribly outrageous, I might try them although I have complete confidence in those TSXs.

Might want to give Hawk Bullets a look:

http://hawkbullets.com/

I used them in my Jeffrey's last trip due to a shortage of Woodleigh's with good result. They come in various jacket thicknesses

No solids that I could see. Just returned from the range with the 405 (and the 257 Weatherby to keep my sanity ). Those TSXs continue to hold groups ~2"@100 to make me pretty well stop looking with the possible exception of solids. Let's be real guys, I'm only going to use this gun once, maybe twice in my life for a stunt like this. Domestic hunting for sure and I'll probably wear the barrel out shooting hogs, deer & bear but as a "go to" African caliber for DG, no way. At least it's a fast shooting lever and does not violate my "not with a single shot" rule.

Oh and I have that 257 cooking at almost 3700 and holding under 2"@ 200. With that and the Sharps, I'm ready for our late April Axis/hog Texas hunt!

This caliber thang has never been a problem with me, if it goes bang I have always made it work within reason..however I can get real picky about bullets and bullet construction..

I have shot a lot of buffalo on cull hunts with some very small calibers and some with some very bad ammo..A buffalo, like a bovine of any kind, can be killed with about any caliber, you just have to adjust your hunting style to fit the caliber..Finn Aagard told me of a 12 year old African that killed a sleeping buff by sticking a 22 Hornet behind his ear, and the bull never moved...Foolishness, carelessnes or just fate gets hunters killed or maimed when shooting dangerous game in 99% of the cases that I have reviewed.

If you get yourself in a charge situation, hopefully you will have good backup and a big ole rifle...Every charge I have been in a charge situation, my thought was I wish I had a 600 N.E. or something on that order instead of a 375, 9.3x62 or 450-400, but in reality I got them down with what I had because in the end its where you stick'em that counts.

My suggestion to my clients is shoot the largest caliber that you can handle recoil wise, the one that you can shoot like your varmint rifle or 22 L.R. with no thought of recoil...A 220 gr. 30-06 in the heart is deadly and beats the hell out of a 500 gr. 458 Lott in the gut and thats a proven fact.

Ray, I can't say I disagree with anything you've posted, but I think all of us know that. What I was specifically looking for and answered by a few here inclusing JB was as to the efficacy of the modern 300gr TSX @ 2250 fps vs a conventional cup and core bullet circa 1909 at similar velocities or a modern bonded of heavier weight (400gr) and lower velocity. The second component of the question was the option of considering a 300gr solid or even a NF CPS in it's place. We all know that a poorly placed shot is no substitute for bore size. Cheers, jorge

My son's Model 1895 .405 Winchester slugs out at .411"

I know many don't think much of cast bullets, but I find them pretty effective in more ways than one.

These 385 grain cast bullets sized to .412" run just over 1,900 fps with this load and could most likely go faster.

I guess you could call me ignorant, but I wouldn't hesitate shoot a buffalo with these loads. A guy could push a few through a big, tough old hog to see how they preformed if he had any doubts.

No doubt those would punch through like crap through a goose! can you share the load data?

JorgeI,
I concur and am sure a 300 gr. 40 caliber at 2200 plus would work well enough, if the shooter does his part and that even applies to the big N.E. rounds. My thinking was that one must be careful as to where you draw the line on DG cartridges, a mistake that I have made more than once.

I say this because already this thread has gone from a 300 gr. monolithic at 2250 to a 385 gr. cast lead at 1900 FPS and I am sure one could kill a buffalo with the cast lead, but one could easily get into trouble with it also, as it would be a slow killer and a charge could come about and that is not a stopping load..I have seen the 458 Win. fail for the same reason early on with those under loaded factory 500 gr. softs and solids! Just a point to bring up for whatever it's worth.

DG rounds begin at 2000 FPS with 500 gr. bullets in the 45 caliber..at 2200 FPS with 400 gr. bullets in the 40 caliber, 300 gr. bullets at 2500 FPS in the 375..The 405 with the short stubby 300 gr. at 2250 is borderline anyway you cut it, and the cast bullet is out from my point of view..

We are in the relm of stunt hunting, and I have done a bunch of that so cannot sit in judgment of those that do and I hold no malice to those hearty souls that do such things in a proper maner with good backup and are up to living with the results if they go bad.

My other issue is DG with the Win. Mod. 95, the slowest loading rifle every manufactured, and that is really dangerous. Even old Teddy carried two of them...If one had a Ruger no. 1 in .405 I suspect he could easily duplicate the 450-400 with a 400 gr. bullet at 2200 FPS with safe pressures.

Just my thoughts on the subject.

It is plenty, IMO.

I had two fall to a 9,3X74R with 286 Woodleigh solids at 2,280 fps. Shot placement has no substitute.

Then that leaves out the 450/400 @ 2100.
The 300gr 411 TSX is LONGER than the 400gr Woodleigh and I think it will penetrate better, certainly at over 100 fps faster.

Stunt hunting, no doubt and I said that from the start. As to slow reloading, I'm not seeing it. Been practicing with the 1895 and I can load it as fast as my 416 and besides it carries five down plus one in the chamber and if I can't get it done with that I'm in the wrong sport. jorge

Good looking bullet.Whats the details please? Thank you

Jorge1,
I shoot my 450-400 at 2225 FPS!

Well, you have inspired me..I am going to practice fast reloading with my Win. Mod 95 SRC in 30-06. I love the rifle and have restocked it with a longer stock and it dotes on 220 gr. Noslers..I have it up for sale over this reloading issue.

If I can learn to reload it as fast as you do then it will be one of my favorite rifles, and I will move it to my keeper corner!..

I have some difficulty in putting the round forward and then pushing it back as they tend to roll form side to side and miss the slot as I push it back, especially under the rush stress!..

Thanks for the advise and I will work on it and see how it goes. Hopefully I can get it together.

I used my Winch 95 in .405 with Hornady 300 sp on a cow Buffalo ( American Bison) the bullet was behind the shoulder, so no major bones were hit and the jacket and core still seperated. Found under the off side skin. Love the rifle and cartridge. But would not use Hornady bullets for anything else. I talked to Hornady about the bullet performance and got little more than a shoulder shrug from the guy who said they shouldn't have done that. Barnes or Woodliegh I guess, because Hornady don't cut the cheese.

A good bullet properly placed from the 405 will indeed make short work of a Buff. No dought.

jorge--I really think you would be better off using that hard cast 400 grain FNGC bullet shown earlier. The poster is getting 1900 fps out of it, and that load and bullet will do a better job on a buffalo than any of the jacketed choices you have.

I know you are hot to trot with the 405 Win, but your best choice really is the 45-110 Sharps. It will knock him on his azz with your FN bullet.

Sharpsguy,Jorge is a HUGE Teddy Roosevelt fan and killing his buff with the 1895 TR African Commemorative is a MISSION!! Like I HAVE to kill a Wyoming buffler with my Sharps because it WAS a buffler gun in Wyoming 130 years ago. A mans gotta do what a mans gotta do!!!

ET--Thanks for the heads up. You're right about a man doing what he's gotta do. I would still use that hard cast FN bullet in the 405 Win, though. What ever he uses, he's gonna have a ball.

The short answer guys is: "Too many guns" and not enough money to do what I want to do! OF COURSE that 45-110 will do a better number on a buffalo, no doubt about it, but like ET says, the 1895 is just something I want to do and I'm sure that 400gr cast will do the job as well, might even be better than the TSX. The Sharps is reserved for now to American hunting and remember, I also have a 45/90 in the works. I also have a personal rule that I don't do DG with single shots, I'm just not that profficient.

Patrick, do you have a stock number on the bullets or do you cast them yourself and what powder/weight primer? Also, North Fork makes a CPS (a cross between a TSX and a solid that would work very well also. This hunt is still a ways away, so I have plenty of time to figure out what is best, but I have to say, the 300gr TSX is a good one. jorge

The CPS would indeed be excellent

Ray,
At one time Winchester had illustrated instructions on loading the 95 but I'll be darned if I can find a copy so I made a set. Please excuse the poor pictures as I took them with one hand while demoing with the other. This is with my Granddads old 30-40 but should be the same with a calibers except possibly the 7.62 Russian which had an integral clip guide. Hope this is of some help, works well for me.
Doc

While grasping the bullet end of the cartridge push down on the lifter or loaded cartridge in front of the rear clip guides with the base end of the cartridge you are loading.


Slide the base to the rear of the magazine inside the clip guides...


And lay the cartridge down.

I'd be happy to throw some .411-.413 375 gr. Hardcasts his way....I've finally got around to getting bullets made for some of my patient fellows

I'd love to try some!

Jorge-1, I have done some testing over the last 2 years with hardcast bullets and those Barnes bullets. We have shot them in an 8 foot stock tank, various media etc and the hardcast bullet always comes out on top. Those being Beartooth Bullets and some that were made by a friend of mine, who shoots nothing but hardcast in his guns.

I personally like the idea of the "hardcast" Piledrivers which I use in my 45-70 and .444 Marlin with amazing results, when your speaking of Cape Buffalo. A friend of mine shoot those Northfork bullets to but I have never tested any of them.
Good Luck!

I have no doubt a hardcast will penetrate more, however, I contend the TSX will penetrate enough plus cause more tissue and disruptive damage. The hardcast will penetrate like a solid.

jorge--A solid is not a bad thing, is it? Lots of buff have been shot with solids. I would much rather have a hole in one shoulder through the lungs and out the other shoulder and the resulting air leak and lung collapse than some additional internal bleeding due to expansion. Collapsed lungs kill things RIGHT NOW. It usually takes a bit longer for something to bleed out.

It's not a bad thing if you are having to use a slow (405 with 400gr bullets below 2100 fps) and/or poor sectional density cartridge (like the 405 with 300gr bullets) to kill big animals that often times even though they are dead on their feet can still kill you. TR killed lots of animals with his 405 and the 300gr soft points and solids of his day, but he readily admits in his writings the 500gr 500/465 H&H was far superior when it came to buffalo, elephant and rhino. The 300gr 405 has LOUSY sectional density, but I am convinced the TSX will offset that and penetrate enough to kill a buffalo with plenty penetration because I can push it to 2250. Now a 400gr 405 with better SD means I have to drop the MV below 2000 and with a soft, the penetration will not be there with that speed, so a good solid or hardcast of 400gr will make up for that. The downside of course it will just zip through and kill sure enough, but with not nearly the tissue damage a soft will generate.

In today's Africa with the advent of premium bullets the only time one sees solids anymore are for elephant, rhino and hippos on dry land. Solids are in my view totally unnessesary for buffalo unless one is using something like a 45-110/70 with hardcast bullets of 500gr or more, or a 405 with 400gr bullets below 2100 fps.

There is no doubt any of the calibers above will handily kill a buffalo with hardcast or solids and I really do want to take one with my 405, but they just can't compare to a 400gr 416@2400 plus or a 500gr 45 at the same speeds. Bottom line if I had to pick what was in my view the perfect buffalo/elephant round, it would be a 450 Dakota or Weatherby with a 500gr soft or solid for the elephant at 2400 plus. jorge

A wide, flat hardcast fortysomething is going to shed some nose when impact speeds get north of 1,600-1,700, but no where in the league of a Hornady "blob".

I have a 416 and a friend has a 400 Whelen (no game with either) and the bullet shoots great. The 400 runs it past 2250.

jorge, its basically going to act like a TSX with penetration and shed the front like a partition (think a high pressure sandblasting powder).

I could of course run you some 15 BHN tin/silver/lead in the nose (perhaps just a smear-tip?) and 30 BHN WW shank.

PM me what, how many and what diameter and how soon. Its a 417 mould I size nose first down to .411.

Even if you just want plinkers, I know I have maybe 50 made up already.

I have seen the hate in a Cape Buffalo eyes when charging on more than three ocassions, those eyes are as big a tennis balls and red with hate and anger, and the determination to kill those that did him harm is more than apparant. His ability to absorb a huge number of hits is amazing at times and A Lion is even worse...I want enough gun to stop dangerous game in their tracks. Yes, I have done the stunts and I learned my lesson early on, I was lucky..Every year a PH or client is mauled and injured to one degree or another and some of them are killed.

Its easy to say this or that will work, and in most instances your right, it will, and your welcomed to try, but its can be a mighty bad experience if something goes wrong. The results of the game is you must suffer the consequences and you may also be responsible for the injury or death of a friend.

For these reasons, I will not hunt DG anymore with less than a .375 and much prefer a 416 or 404...I suppose in my mind the 9.3x62 properly loaded is the lightest caliber that should be used.

A client on another blog, who has hunted with me in the past had his Win. mod. 95 long throated, and the magazine openned up so that he could seat 400 gr. bullets out and utilize those 400 gr. bullets to his advantage and he got 2200 plus a little FPS without undue pressure. That was a good buff rifle accoording to him..He used Woodleigh softs/solids as I recall. I would think the 350 gr. North Fork cup point at 2300 to 2350 would have been ideal..These are 450-400 balistics a caliber that I have used many times and it works well.

Just another point of view and my own personal take on the subject. It can be argued on these blogs until hell freezes over but the game fields of Africa is where the conversation will be settled, if your right congratsulations, if your wrong then you must live with those consequences, thats the bottom line.

Ray: I've spoken to Ernest many times about this issue and he assured me the 300gr TSXs @2200 would be more than adequate for buffalo, but if I needed, the 400gr Woodleighs@ 1900 will be just fine. The long throating and magazine lenghtening are fine, but a 400gr bullet @2200 is EXCESSIVE PRESSURE for a 95 even a modern replica like mine.

Hawk, you have a PM.\

And Oh guys, I installed the peep sight attachment to the rear sight and it looks very nice, fits right in and no one can tell the rifle did not come with it. Off to the range tomorrow to try it out. I'll report back. jorge

Jorgel you are spot on..

Ray what gun short of a 105 Howitzer will stop one in the their tracks without a central nervous system hit?? Answer none

The load is 47 grains of Ramshot TAC with a .385 grain LBT mold, LFNGC bullet that cast out .413" and sized to .412" and lubed with LBT Blue.

Thanks! Paladin.

On a separate subject, can anyone discuss the supposed inherent benefits of a peep sight over a buckhorn? I just installed a peep on the 405 (forward in place of the buckhorn) and took it to the range with good results. I seems like I can acquire the target faster the down side is it doesn't look like it is as durable. Can some of you with experience chime in? thanks! jorge

Precision and accuracy are what peep sights are all about. Longer sight radius, better target vision, and, if made for it, repeatably and infinitely adjustable settings for whatever condition.

I use tang sights exclusively while hunting.

They are (or can be) as least as durable as as scope.

What sort of peep sight did you put on it? There are a lot of ways to go (receiver, tang, venier, soule, lollipops, etc.)

I used this sight with a peep insert. I'll try and find a picture of that and post it:

Ah, got it. I was thinking something that mounts on the receiver side or the tang. I do not have experience with what you are looking at, so I can't comment. Sorry.

Here it what it looks like. looks a lot better on the rifle though. In fact if someone would have told me they were factory, I would not have known the difference. The rifle came with buckhorns.

Interesting sight. I might have to try one some day. There is something called a Remington "rough rider" sight that I think is like this. More of a ghost ring set up than an aperture tang or receiver sight. I would think it would work very well with a post and bead up front. But again, I haven't done it. Bill B may have. You might ask him.

Brent

I like that idea.

I'm thinking I like those as well.

Well like I said, it seems to work but what I cannot determine is whether it was worth installing it. I seemed to do OK with the buckhorn, but this one does seem to get on "on" quicker.

Jorge-1, as you have already found out, the more open peep delivers faster sight accquition verses the buckhorn. However, your eyes must like the idea or it is not worth a hoot!

Similar to putting ghost rings on a combat shotgun for up close work. If you see better in low light and shoot more accurate, then go with what gives you the best results.

I just spoke to teddy. He told me this cartridge is the cats pajamas and is ok for buffalo

I always liked the big peep sight on the rear of the No 5 Lee-Enfield Jungle Carbine. Fast and accurate up to 100 yards. Closer to the eye than the one shown here.

Jeff: I agree the peep closer to the rear is better (also like the M-1s) but the only one avaialble is the Williams and it looks like hell on the rifle:



I'm slowly getting used to the one I just installed...

Whoa! Nice rifle dude. That ain't your average 95.

Since you are looking at a short range buffalo rifle, I think your barrel ghost ring is going to be just fine. BUT if you wanted to try something just a bit different and give your rifle a bit more flexibility - say for reaching out 200-300 yds for plains game while being instantly available for close range buffalo, you could put a tang sight on it. But not all tang sights are appropriate because you need to be able to safely fire with the tang sight down. An MVA version of the Marbles tang sight, an original Marbles or a simple Vernier w/o an elevator screw would all be good candidates so long as they fold down in front of, and below, the comb of the stock.

I have similar set up to this on a Ballard Pacific. The barrel sight set for 100 yds and the tang sight set for 200 yds (I have a lot more drop issues than you do).

How about a few more pictures of that rifle? And it deserves better than that Williams. I bet there is a vintage Lyman that is made for that rifle as a receiver sight. Finding might take a couple weeks of looking but it would be a lot classier.

Here you go: the one with the Sharps, is a TR 150th Anniversary Commemorative and a slightly different version than the one I've been discussing. that one is the TR African Safari Centennial:





And here is an entire thread on the rifles. There is also a good thread on the Big Bore levers forums as well:
OSA Johnson

Is that a thumb lever on the tang? If so, it is not compatible with a tang sight. If it has a dependable half cock then you could remove the tang safety altogether.

Brent

Unfortunately it is and it also has that silly-assed rebounding hammer BS, but it can be removed. Doug Turnbull does a great job and makes it look like the original for about 350 bucks.

jorge--That ghost ring is a good, quick set up for 100 yards in. The 405 shoots flat enough so that if you are one inch high at 50, you will be less than an inch low at 100.

I would NEVER use a small aperture for Cape Buffalo, as they are way too slow to acquire the sight picture with-- and early and late, and in dark shadows you often don't get ANY sight picture with them. The small aperture is a precision sight for where the distance is known exactly, the light is good, and you have plenty of time to acquire the target AND REFINE THE SIGHT PICTURE. For their intended purpose, a small aperture and globe work extremely well, but not where the work needs to be quick, dirty, and dark.

Look at the sights on traditional DG rifles. You see wide shallow "v" rears and beads or blades in front. There is a reason, as these sights are the quickest to acquire and the easiest to see in low light. If you can see the standard buckhorn, my advice is to stay with it. That is an elegant rifle in its own right, and it doesn't need extraneous clutter in an effort to enhance it. Use that buckhorn correctly, and you will be good on PG to 300 yards. Just hold a little blade up and hold on the spine.

Next time you are by here, bring the 405 and I'll show you how to hit the 300 meter pig silhouette with the same zero you use for DG.

I KNEW you'd have the answer Bill Great minds think alike. Today as I was chatting with ET, he kept hearing a banging sound. Well that was me drifting that globe sight off and re-installing the Buckhorn. What do you think about opening up the notch a little bit like you did with the sigths on the Sharp? Waiting on the weather to cool before I start casting ops for the Sharps. Appreciate the help Bill and once again I'm indebted to you sir!
jorge

You know Jorge... Just an idea here from an Aperture sighted, lever gun lover..

Would the Williams sight be more palatable to your eye if the sight were polished to Bare Alumium(silver) then clear anodized?

If you did the whole sight in a matte silver brushed finish it would blend in a lot better visually with the silver reciever.

Jim, that idea crossed my mind as well and not out of the realm of options. Thanks!

Just to play Devil's Advocate, with the groups you were shooting with the original sights, why are you messing with a good thing?

It worked Jeff. I just couldn't get used to the non-standard peep on there, just didn't look right and it was like an itch you can't scratch! Put the buckhorns back on and what I might do is open up the tiny slit on it like Sharpsguy did to the Sharps.

Jorge--It is important that the sights accomodate your eyes. A vertical slit in the rear makes it harder to acquire the front blade or bead, whicever the case may be. Hence, I open the rear notch on my buckhorns slightly with a SMALL Swiss file.

If you decide to go this route, remember that a little goes a very long way, so use the file gently and sparingly. The drill is touch and try. I ruined two buckhorns at sixty five bucks a pop before I got it figured out. It is important that the sight be cut so that it is slightly narrower on the side that is toward the eye, and that the notch is wider in the front side away from the eye, This keeps any flat surface that is present from picking up glare and reflecting light into your eye.

When you finish, be sure that ALL the burrs are removed, and that the file cuts are covered with cold blue. The burrs, no matter how slight, will cause glare and this makes it impossible to acquire a good sight picture.

So you were shooting those tight groups with the Williams and not the buckhorn sight?

Jeff, these are the groups I shot with the buckhorn. The bullseye there are two shots touching@ 50 yards, then two more shot at 100. the group at the bottom was my initial 100yard shoot before I corrected up and fired two more hitting the bull, all with the buckhorn. The peep shot a similar group, but it was easier to get on target.


Bill: I think I'll wait until I see you to dick around with files and other dangerous tools

Man, you are hell on your tailgate

Jorge1,
Ernest told me he was getting right at 2100 FPS with a 400 gr. Woodleigh in his long throated gun, maybe he bought himself a chronograph. I had another friend who claimed 2200 FPS with the 400 gr. Woodleigh, However it seems to me that you should get an easy 2000 FPS, but I have not personally worked with that one. If I opted for the 405 then I would use a 350 gr. Cup Point from North fork or a 350 from GS Customs and try and get 2100 or better..Id not then I'd use try it with a 300 gr. North fork cup point or GS customs HP..sounds like a fun project.

It is very easy to remove the tang safety on the 95, but you have a slot to deal with..On my custom stocked Win. mod. 95 SRC (picture on the Rays Guns post in Ask the gunwriters) I ripped it out and filled the slot with black polished glass and it surfices and has the half cock like and older 95...

Agreed a tig welding job and a matching blue of the tang would be better on your fine gun, but I wanted the option or replacing the tang safety in case someone wanted to buy the gun at some point...

I believe Dennis Olson would do that job of about $100 for you and do it well, other than the tigging its a simple procedure.

Jorge1,
Ernest told me he was getting right at 2100 FPS with a 400 gr. Woodleigh in his long throated gun, maybe he bought himself a chronograph. I had another friend who claimed 2200 FPS with the 400 gr. Woodleigh, However it seems to me that you should get an easy 2000 FPS, but I have not personally worked with that one. If I opted for the 405 then I would use a 350 gr. Cup Point from North fork or a 350 from GS Customs and try and get 2100 or better..Id not then I'd use try it with a 300 gr. North fork cup point or GS customs HP..sounds like a fun project.

It is very easy to remove the tang safety on the 95, but you have a slot to deal with..On my custom stocked Win. mod. 95 SRC (picture on the Rays Guns post in Ask the gunwriters) I ripped it out and filled the slot with black polished glass and it surfices and has the half cock like and older 95...

Agreed a tig welding job and a matching blue of the tang would be better on your fine gun, but I wanted the option or replacing the tang safety in case someone wanted to buy the gun at some point...

I believe Dennis Olson would do that job of about $100 for you and do it well, other than the tigging its a simple procedure.

Howdy Ray. yep, that is correct and I told him he was running high pressures with those velocities. I guess it will work ok, but eventually I imagine it will loosen up the action. I'm still holding out hope the TSXs' inherent penetration qualities will offset the 300grainers poor sectional density at the speed I'm using which is 2250 fps. Also, I've ordered some 400gr Woodleigh solids to play with and if I can get say 1900 out of them I'll be happy. And one of our forumites is kindly sending me some 385gr hardcast lead slugs to play with (see above) that he has no problems pushing to 1950 or so. I can also get the excellent (but expensive!!!) 300gr North Forks to shoot to the same POI as the TSXs and I need to try them both on some big Texas hogs to check penetration.
I'll keep everyone posted, but hell, who can argue with the target groups above and if they penetrate like I think they will, those TSXs sound perfect with the solids as backup. As an aside, I'm come to the conclusion that for other than elephant, rhino and hippo out of the water, there is no need for solids. Cheers, jorge

It's kevlar...

Did you read Sharpguy's post?

More thoughts to ponder; all suggestions welcomed!!
UPS just delivered the 400gr Woodleighs. SAAMI specs for the 405 are 3.175 OAL, BUT there is a note in the Barnes manual stating one can load the 300gr TSXs to 3.210. I loaded mine right at 3.20 and they work and shoot fine. So with that in mind, I loaded some of the 400gr Woodleighs to 3.215 and that takes me past the cannelure which I think is no problem, particularly since I ordered a custom Lee factory crimp die and with it I can just kiss and hopefully prevent slippage, although there is plenty of neck tension and so far no issues with the TSXs without crimping. Anyhow with that setup, I can load three down and one up the spout with no problems.

So now what remains is to see if they shoot. For a load, my military mind came up with 46gr RL-15, which is about 20% less powder than what I load the 300gr TSXs (they weigh 20% less). Jeez I hope this makes sense. On second thought, maybe this thread should be called "Trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear???"

Yup I did read his post and he is the best with those dang sights. I can't stand them and I have several. I will even be using one this year on antelope.

When I open up a rear barrel sight or cut a notch for the first time in a new sight, I use a screw-slotting file. They cut only on the edge and not left or right. You may have to come back with a file or wet/dry paper on a stick to get the slight bevel, but the slot can be kept comfortable narrow if you use a narrow enough slotting file. Brownells has them.

Brent

Thanks for the input. I'm going to try and put a few downrange in the coming days with the sights "as is" at 25.50 and 100 and if they work like they have been, I'll call it a day or at most score a vertical groove below the notch and fill it with gold leaf like the express sights on my 416. jorge

Platinum, not gold. Works better and "more authentic" at least on the classic English rifles I have owned.

Platinum huh? where does one avail themselves of that?

I dunno. That's the engraver's problem. But it does seem to pick up light much like Bill's copper penny front blade does at dark-thirty. In the end, it won't make a hill of beans difference with respect to meat on the ground or horn on the wall.

Sounds like a "google" search. BTW, Bill's penny front sight works like a champ!

I'm not sure were you were going to get the gold leaf, or if you were going to do this yourself, but I think a trip to the local jeweler would be a good start - they may sell it to you or do it for you.

Brent

I can buy gold leaf at craft stores like Michaels. My wife got it for me and I pressed some onto the groove on my 416's express sights back in 05 and it's still there. jorge

Ask the right people!

Ohhhh yeah! I forgot about you! But more importantly, please throw in with your views on the 400gr Woodleighs. Heck if they don't work you'll get them in the mail for your 450/400 WR

Well, I'll be damned. Never would have that would work.

I can't help it any longer but with respect!!!!!Now the 405 Winchester is a Cape Buff Round when the 45-70 in a modern action can send 300 to 550 grain bullets faster and within the pressure limits.....

Sorry Jorge but you were on many cases for this,including Randy Garrett, if memory on AR serves me right and it might not,this time.

Pressure checked loads in the 45-70 send 300 grain bullets at nearly 2500 fps by Rick Jamison and 525 grain Cast loads pressure checked by White Labs at less than 40,000 PSI at 1850 fps..

I do wish you the best on your hunt and goal,really but memory has me confused some..............

Jayco

Never said it was, and if you take the time to rad what I posted, I call this for what it is, a pure stunt to try and emulate what TR did and by his own admission, he considered the 405 as too light for buffalo but perfect for lion. Also if you care to read about two or three posts up, you'll see my comments about trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear out of the 405. My whole disagreement (and still is) with the 45/70 crowd was their insistence that it was on par with bona-fide DG cartridges when clearly it is not. This is just a historical whim on my part and I recognize it for what it is. Plenty of lesser cartridges than either of these have taken buffalo and other large game but a DG cartridge they'll never be.

That's cool..Wasn't trying to pull a Jim H here and I have read every post..As I said...I do wish you the best of luck.

Leverguns are addictive...

Jayco

Yes they are addictive. I have a beautiful upgraded Uberti 76 in 45-60 that I'm chomping at the bit to use as well. I was on a blind with a good friend of mine last year in Texas when he killed a big axis buck at 60 yards with a similar rifle. This 1895 is a beautifully balanced rifle and I'm a TR fan, plus our fellow poster Bob Faucett got me going with this whole 1895 craze and it is addictive!

I usually don't watch hunting shows but one day a while back when I was in the hills via DTV satellite/generator,I was scanning the channels and saw Tom Selleck/Brad Johnson and Tony Makris all shooting leverguns on an Elk hunt...Tony and Brads were converted to 50-110 and Toms was only a 45-70 and he got the only Elk,that day...Made me laugh a bit but by now,Tom also has one of Brad's conversions to 50-110 which are not cheap.

I guess the bug get's us all at one time or another with an open mind...

Jayco

Actually, Sellick had the best elk cartridge. The way the 50-110 is loaded now with the light bullets with low sectional density, they lack the penetration of the 45-70. They look impressive, but don't have the reach or ability to go deep that even the 405FN has in the 45-70. Load a 500 grain bullet in the 45, and you can reach and shoot all the way through any elk you can see and hit. I have a 480 grain FN as well as a 502 grain FN that will cycle through a Marlin 1895, and they are the Real Deal in both the Marlin and my Sharps. They blow through both shoulders of a 1600 pound bison bull, throw up dirt on the other side, and keep on going.

My next trip to RSA will see me carrying a Sharps in 45-70. At some point I can see me carrying my 45-70 Cowboy Marlin. It has a lot going for it.

Bill is that 480 the one I have for my Sharps? Waiting for the weather to cool a bit before I start casting

Oh sure.... Place all of the blame on me!!!

BTW, I'm a big TR fan also.



-Bob F.

Bill, what is the twist on those Marlins?

Brent

My wife did...

That's kind of what I figured!!!!

-Bob F.

That's the one, jorge. Load 96 grains of 2f black and you will have a real barn burner.

Just for you Bill:

Brent--The twist on my Marlin is 1-20. It will absolutely put the bullets in one hole at 50 yards if you're up to it. Anything between 340 and 520 grains. At 100, it will shoot as well as you can see with barrel sights. I have seen several scoped Guide Guns go under an inch at 100.

20 twist is plenty fast! One day, I'm going to get one. Right now, I need a .45-70 back-up match rifle, but I'll get a lever one day.
Brent

I wholeheartedly agree--Life's too short to shoot an ugly rifle. I don't know who said that first, but he was certainly right.

Try 'em, but I think you'll find them unnecessary. I'll takem!

Well just got back from the range after re-installing the original sights. TSXs behaved well and the rifle is pretty well spot on at 100 with them same for 50 yards. Tried the 400gr Woodleighs with 47gr of RL-15. They shot well, but about 6" low and on centerline with the TSXs. Speed was right at 1820 fps so maybe another half grain or one might bring it closer to 1900 and closer to the TSXs. Jeff I think you are right, and you might have yourself a batch O' bullets!

I have been thinking of converting my Win. SRC 30-06, new model btw, to a 9.3x62 for use with the 300 gr. Swifts, but everytime I take out the 30-06 and shoot it with 200 and 220 gr. Noslers, I remember just what a fine caliber it is and how many buffalo I have shot with it on cull, and the idea fades..but it keeps coming back and haunting me! Maybe a 9.3x64 would be better with the short barrel.

Jeez, I wonder if one could convert a mod.95 to the short 416 Ruger or at least the 416 Chatfield Taylor..Lots of interest to me on this subject and I still love to be a wildcatter on ocassion, albiet I realize it's pretty foolish these days, all the bases have about been covered. Don't you know the recoil would be horrific from a mod. 95...

So you culled buffalo with the 06 then? well hell if that's the case the 405 should have no issues!

Trade for Scotch?

Jorge,

The most experienced PH I have hunted with in Africa started out at a Rhodesian game ranger right out of high school and is still going hard at 60, guiding every year both in Zim and RSA.

When we were getting to know each other almost a decade ago, I once asked him what was the largest African animal he'd be confident in hunting with 180-grain Nosler Partitions and a .30-06. His immediate answer was, "Buffalo." He'd killed dozens with that combination during culling, including mature bulls with frontal shots.

Now, admittedly that isn't stopping wounded bulls, but his favorite rifle for backing up hunters when buffalo hunting, even in thick jess, is the .375 H&H. When I asked about his favorite .375 bullet, he said, "Whatever my clients leave behind. They're all good these days!"

Since this guy has personally taken over 600 buffalo and guided clients to many more, I tend to be a little suspicious when anybody proposes an absolute minimum.

Done!

Thanks for that insight John. This thread has been a lot of fun and I've learned a lot which is more than I can say for they typical thread here as the "sniping" has been kept to a minimum.

Bottom line is I've been having more fun with this 405 than any rifle in memory, even more than my Sharps and that is saying A LOT!. I've put about one hundred rounds through it now and I am confident those 300gr TSXs @ 2200 plus will measure up. Is it optimum? far from it, but at least I'm going into this with both eyes open and with full knowledge of the cartridges limitations-and mine. Thanks to all! jorge

-Bob F.

OK Bob, duz this fella look familiar?? What kinda riflegun duz he have

Yeah!!! I have one of those too! and one on order (45-90) and THAT is ET's fault, in fact this whole back-to-the-past magnificent obsession started with Jim and his darned habit-inducing Sharps as a retirement gift!

jorgeI, you gitterdun! I can't wait to see the pics/read the stories. As stated above, BULLY!


maddog

"Theodore Roosevelt's son, Kermit, drops a 70-pound leopard with his 1895 .405 Winchester
in this sketch by Phillip Goodwin in TR's book, African Game Trails."

Cheers!
-Bob F.

If you are complaining about the addiction, you should have kept working.

Oh but I am my friend! Can't afford to keep the Princess...and the Winchesters and hunts on Navy retirement! You driving or flying down?

My mule deer hunting compadre bought a double rifle in 405 last fall and since his shoulder was messed up , he asked me to shoot it first . I hadn't gotten around to it when on the second or third day a bunch of javalinas showed up in the camp garbage pit .

I killed a couple with it even though the sights were not regulated right .

I could learn to like the cartridge .

And it appears that I made an excellent move I hear there's a soon-to-be retired Anchor Clanker that will be finding an 1895 Teddy Rifle in HIS retirement stocking I believe that if yer a good shot under pressure and have cool nerves, either the Buffler Gun or the Teddy Rifle will hang a critter head on yer wall with relative ease

That is correct! His last day in the canoe club was last Tuesday and now Pugs and I are coordinating when the great event will take place! It's all yours and Faucett's fault!

Well then would you please give the Man my Salute for his time on the line?? Then git him burnin' powder

You old sea dogs have got to be admired. Jorge were you Navy or Air Force jet jockey? My BIL retired as a wrench puller on jets and then the Sea Kings just before retiring from the Canadian Forces. He went in Navy and was allowed Navy Dress uniform for all his career.

Thanks to you and pugs for your years of service. Men like you keep it safe for men like me to serve at home.

Randy

Jorge was a Naval Aviator and flew the S-3 Viking. Here's a photo of one:




And, here's a nice video about the Lockheed S-3 Viking:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDElHFDGxiM

"The Lockheed S-3 Viking was a jet aircraft used by the United States Navy to identify, track, and destroy enemy submarines. In the late 1990s, the S-3B's mission focus shifted to surface warfare and aerial refueling. The Viking also provided electronic warfare and surface surveillance capabilities to the carrier battle group.

A carrier-based, subsonic, all-weather, multi-mission aircraft with long range, it carried automated weapon systems, and was capable of extended missions with in-flight refueling. Because of the engines high-pitched sound, it was nicknamed the "Hoover" after the brand of vacuum cleaner. The US Navy retired the S-3 Viking in January 2009, with its missions being assumed by other platforms."


Here's to you, Jorge.


Cheers!
-Bob F.

thank you very much.

Bob
Thanks. I thought he was a Naval Aviator, but those Air Force boys can be touchy.

Randy

I sure will Jim, but you'll also be able to do it yourself, either in Texas next Spring or if we put together a reunion up at our place in PA, you'll get the word to attend!

Thanks for the pics and storyline Bob. Yeah Pugs and I were both Navy fliers, only he went faster. 450 on a good day is about all you could get out of the Hoover. jorge

What an ugly aircraft! Nothing like the thing of beauty I flew! Behold my mighty EA-6B (aka, the fighting drumstick! ) Here on a low-level in Puerto Rico.



Really looking forward to seeing the look on Zeke's face. You started a good thing E.T.

A couple of nice rides. My time has been spent mostly in Norsemen, Otters and a bit in a Twin Beech, all on floats, all with radial power. There is nothing like the puff of smoke on start up of a radial.

There isn't. I had about 60 hours in a twin beech in college riding right seat on the UPS run. With 3000 lbs of packages in the back if an engine failed the running one was enough to take us to the scene of the crash.

You guys might enjoy this video of Jimmy Buffett flying the Sikorsky S-38 "Osa's Ark":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FL6rOCgr-j0




"A replica of Martin and Osa Johnson's 1929 S-38 Amphibious Sikorsky Aircraft. The company Unlimited Adventure was formed by Buzz Kaplan and Tom Schrade, with the goal to collect exotic airplanes and recreate historical aviation expeditions around the world. Born Again Restoration of Owatonna, Minnesota began construction of Osa's Ark in 2000 and after more than 40,000 man hours the project was completed. This plane is a replica of Martin and Osa Johnson's zebra striped flying yacht which made historic flights over Africa in the 1930's."

To learn more about "Osa's Ark", go here:

http://www.unlimitedadventure.com/


Here's a photo of Osa in the original airplane:



It looks like she has some company!!

Cheers!
-Bob F.

I saw that at a local airshow a couple years ago. It's all Moira could do to keep me from going to Hendershots, buying a .300 H&H, stealing it and heading across the pond.

You know that airplane I think holds eight pax and gear. I would give anything, including an un-natural act with a farm animal to be able to take a couple of buds and do that exact same trip hunting our way down. What a life those two had! Hey Pugs, WHAT 300 H&H? is there one for sale at Hendershots????

It was nothing you'd be interested in, just a Pre-64 M-70 and they wanted $300 for it. Seemed overpriced to me so I passed. Besides, I can't believe the guy kept all those pamphlets and the box that came with it. I don't trust anyone named O'Conner.

OK you got me...

Sadist...

You Naval Aviator types are a clever and articulate breed.

Actually took off and landed from the Enterprise (as a somewhat nervous pac) back in 2001. They flew us out on a COD while she was working up for a deployment off Norfolk so we could observe and better appreciate our sister service. Probably still have the baseball cap around here somewhere. Anyone who can land anything on the deck of one of those things has my utmost respect. (Mind you though, and with due acknowledgement to GH and Sonora, it is not the same as hiking five miles really fast over scary, scary rocks to scout deer - Pugs you would have had to have been reading another thread).

As an artilleryman, I didn't spend as long with the light guys as I would have liked, but by the time I retired, my takeoffs exceeded my landings by quite a few.

Jorge,
Please don't misinterpet my posts on the 405, I have shot a lot of big stuff with calibers that are considered too small, but what I do and what I recommend are two different things I suppose..If one is willing to take the risk then the choice is his to live with the results, good or bad..

In my case, in all honesty I feel like I am an excellent shot as one should be who has hunted a lifetime, and my confidence in my ability to shoot good under any circumstances is probably a bit higher than it should be, and I suspect your may well fit in that same boat as many on this board will but such may or may not be the case with someone who has not hunted and/or shot much, so a pat answer is not in the books on the subject of what is a good buffalo or dangerous game caliber..

In my case I always felt like anything raised on milk should be easy to kill with a 06 or 7x57 or even a 405! but I don't recommend that to my clients.

So in reference to your reply post to me, yes your are correct, if the 06 is a buff killer then so is the .405 win.

Where and why did the 300 H&H come into play on this thread. but hey it's a fantastic caliber and I wouldn't be without mine.:)

Ray, your views and mine are pretty close. Cheers, jorge

"So easy a GIRL can do it."

Tell that to Judy Rhodes, founder of the Dallas Divas!

http://www.spislandbreeze.com/articles/armed-11164-dallas-divas.html

Isn't this buffalo dead yet?

Won't be for another 18 months or so I'm afraid

By then, this bull could be dead of old age and this thread might be have more pages than a dictionary (when dictionaries used to have pages anyway).

Why not shoot something with it in the meantime? A bison would do. A Texas eland or just a plain ol' beef cow. I'm not sure we can stand all of the suspense

Well it's going to Texas sometime soon and I have the Sharps selected for the Bison hunt. I'll have a date for you boys after DSC when I book, until then, type away!

Dang, this is going to be longer than the sniper-rifles thread! (But without as many photos....)

Say, that's an idea, we could bring the photos here!

jorge,
You could take "fridge girl" along to show your diverse and open minded!

Jorge might agree with that but his Viking Princess bride would not be so open minded (and Fridge girl would be a little pulpy afterward )

She'd call down the thunder from her buddies in Valhalla

Just so there is no misunderstanding, I was just teasing Jorge and he knows who I was referring to:


Osa Johnson


I just wish that I could be as good as she was!! If you ever want a good example of "true grit", she personifies it!


Cheers!
-Bob F.

Now, now.... You know things such as this take time! Don't get impatient...

-Bob F.

Takes a long time to talk a buffalo to death. That's part of the fun. Would you rather go back to .375 vs .416, or A-frames vs TSX?

jorge1, can ya build that 1895 with a high cap magazine? Just sayin.......


maddog

Hey, it already holds five plus one!!

As to the bullets, let's make it interesting; a 45/70 with Sierra Matchkings

Woah Nellie....here we go.....


maddog

Just got back from the range with Paladin's 385gr cast bullets. I upped the load to 48gr (one grain) and for a four shot spread I got 1840, 53, 53 and one spiked to 1915. Three shot right on windage with the 2200fps TSXs (those I load with 55.5gr of RL-15) but 3 1/2" low and a 2.5" group. The 1915 round went right smack into the bull with the TSXs. One thing I did notice with that round is that I had significant blackening around the case mouth and the sides of the shell but zero pressure signs. I was surprised that going up a full grain of powder only got me around 25fps which tells me I am probably at max effieciency for that bullet weight. I'm going to try and shoot another group tomorrow and I'll be really careful to ensure load uniformity and get back to you all. Leading was mimimal to non existent. jorge

JWP,
Just to reply to your question, I believe a .470 or even a .416 Rem., can be relied on to stop a Buffalo with a central nervous system hit 99.9% of the time. That is a well placed bullet is it not?, and a requirement for any hand held caliber, but not for a Howitzer as the Howitzer does not even require contact to kill buffalo I am told by demolitions experts!

I am talking reasonable expectations. In my case I always use a solid and use a brain shot, that is better than a Howitzer in the central nervous system!

Its been an interesting conversation at any rate.

You are making a surgical Central Nervous System strike Ray, as the brain is the control centre of the CNS. A spinal shot will stop nerve impulses below the hit, but above typically functions as before. That is why a tail shot puts the back end down, but the animal may stay on its front legs. If we luck out and sever the vagas nerve, the lungs and heart shuts down, and the animal looss consciousness.

I am sure you have way more experience than me in these matters, most of mine comes from North American game, the rest from patching up human beings, and six African plains game. I was told by my PH to stop when he saw my shot on my white tailed gnu ws directed into the brain. Seems trophy preservation is important.

Your choice of brain shot, and your ability to produce it on demand commend you as a hunter.

Just saw some chinese chick shoot a Cape Buff in Mozambique with a 454 Casull at fifty yards. [bleep], if that pop gun will bring it down I should have no issues. And of course I'll have the 416 Ribgy ready...