If your interested I will Email you a bit of text from a hunt this year. It's a disgusing bit of writing but worth the read if you have some time to kill.
jjhack@huntingadventures.net
You can post your comments here although I can imagine what they will be like already!
Wow, that was something...one question....have you seen the tail-less impala again? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Sorry to hear about your misadventures with those two....hope the other groups made up for it!
dave
Wow! It's a wonder you didn't gut shoot that idiot and leave him there! What a slob.
Wow I just read the doc I have sent to at least 50 people now. I'm a bit ashamed I did not read what I had sent out. My little guy ( 2+yo)sitting on my lap while I typed that was clearly more difficult then I assumed.
I have fixed the 100's of typos and missspellings so it should be a bit better read now. I'm going out of town tommorow afternoon so I cannot send it out to anymore people until I return on Thursday.
Hunter #1 needs killing!
Hunter #2 needs to join the campfire and get some local coaching/mentoring from a hunter/shooter...By using your rifle successfully he showed he had what ot took to be a competent hunter.
I can't imagine spending even $50 bucks on a hunt and being so ill prepared for it...let alone a couple of grand plus airfare...
I think you are a better man than me JJ I would have had #1 ploicing the concession with a hefty bag! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Mike
JJ, At least you were paid to do it. If not, you could have shot the slob and got away with JUSTIFIABLE HOMICIDE! JMHO TM
Ah, look at it this way Jim- at least it makes the rest of us seem like great guys!- <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />- Bob
Must have seemed like one long, bad dream.
We all have likely seen guys like these at the range or elswhere. Got all the gear but are clueless as how to effectively, and ethically, use it. When I read or hear of situations like this I certainly appreciate the hunting requirements in parts of Scandanavia : gotta prove your worth before you can go afield.
since JJHACK's going to be out of town for a few days, could anyone here email me that article? otherwise i'll just wait till thurs.
thanks.
mdv1state@hotmail.com
I would like a copy also. thanks tom
tleeparker95@comcast.net
dave,
got the email, thanks.
-matt
No problem Matt.
Jorge, Rick, TC: emails sent..
dave
Me too, please.
dogzapper@msn.comThanks in advance. Steve
I'd like a copy e-mailed too.
Rolly_Jurgens@nic.eduThanks.
dogzapper,
Incoming!!!!!!
Your welcome...
JJHACK: Thank you for the e-mail. I read your attachment. I had considerable difficulty understanding how any adult human could behave in such a callous and selfish way. Hunter One needs resocialization as a decent human being first. Then maybe other training might begin to make some positive changes in his behavior. Hunter TWO is just ignorant; there is a chance, given proper example and guidance, that he'll mature. Meanwhile, I'm glad that I've met such folk only on paper. Your tale is also a warning that each of us has the obligation to act decently, humanely and ethically, especially on the range and in the field. We owe this to the game, to the sport, to our brothers and sisters in the field and to ourselves.
Good luck & good hunting! TwentyTwo
Curiosity killed the cat! Would someone please send it to me.TIA
I'd sure like to see it too if somebody would take the trouble. Thank you right on.
BCR
If anyone would like to send another copy to:
e27122002@yahoo.comI would be most appreciative -- if only to assuage my curiosity!
Thanks
Got it.
Mny thx
It IS a pretty sad tale...
Well, thanks to Dave, I read that sad tale. I'll be charitable and say that in the case of hunter #2 he's just ignorant and ignorance is cureable.
In the case of hunter #1 stupidity is to the bone and short of divine intervention uncureable.
To JJ all I can say is, Man O Man, the things you'll do for money <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
BCR
The suspense is killing me, how about a copy :
bteam33@comcast.net TIA,
Tony
Please send me a copy. Thanks! Steve
sbwalters@cox-internet.com
Whoa, way late to the party, but I'd love a copy!
charleys@vsantoni.comThanks in advance!
Could someone send me a copy also, thanks
tobytruby@hchd.net
Dave,
I too am late to the party. Just got back from a prairie dog shoot in South Dakota. If you haven't worn out your computer already, could you please send it to me also at [email]
[email protected].[/email] Many thanks.
Tom
Count me in as well, please.
Paul_Yodice@Brown.eduThanks and stay well,
Paul
On it's way to both....
dave
I already sent an email to JJ so I'll just wait until tomorrow even though my curiousity is killing me <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Dave sent it to me and as i said in my email to him:
Good Lord, that is how NOT to do
anything in life.
I am still shaking my head in sympathy for you and the quarry. Hunter No 1 should not be allowed to deal with any living creature in any form whatsoever - his total lack of respect for the game animals, for you and for the opportunity before him was evident from the outset - and he didn't learn any appreciation as the days wore on.
Hunter #2 needed a good slap in the back of his head followed by a "Whatsa matter with you!?" I am of Italian decent and from Brooklyn, NY and it was a phrase regularly heard when someone did something utterly stupid - like not being completely familiar with the tools needed to do a job before starting it. At least he admitted his stupidity, though should have remained embarrassed throughout the rest of the hunt. I bet both he and #1 returned home bragging of their abilities and how they taught
you how to hunt <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />
Unbelievable, yet unfortunately all too believeable. No wonder the antis get support - these guys are the poster children for all of us in the eyes of the uninformed. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
Thanks for sharing and stay well,
Paul
I can't stand the peer pressure----Somebody give me a copy!
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Scott
scwjones@iupui.edu
Dave,
I got my copy, but won't get a chance to read it for a day or two. I'm looking forward to it. Thanks so much for sending it to me.
Steve
OK this is killing me. Could someone please send me a copy? Thanks,
Paul
Email sent...
I'll be out of touch the next couple days...someone else will have to distribute Jim's story... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
dave
Thanks. I'll be reading it shortly.
OK Folks I'm back home and cannot believe how many Emails I had to send this too. Seems that everyone who visits the 24 hour site has requested a copy. Might as well have posted it here. Except I wanted to be sure I did not send it to a couple folks who might be in bad taste to have it.
I see that plan went out the window when it's now being forwarded by everyone who has it. The copy I have been sending is not the original but a spell checked and typo checked copy. I'm certain that many of you have been reading the original which was horribly written in a big hurry while babysitting my 2YO son! It was not really intended for public release but rather a bunch of notes so I would not forget the experience.
In anycase there is more, MUCH more to this which I just could not add into that already too long story. I will try when I get time to put the rest on paper because it's just too good to forget the magnitude of this fella.
In all fairness the Hunter #2 was a good and friendly guy who knew his limitations and tried very hard to make things right. I have to tell you this as well.
When I confronted him about his ignorant friend and asked what is his problem? His response was that he has some issues and is not really a hunter. Then he laid this tid bit on me. This is Hunter number 2 speaking:
Once when I took him bear hunting I gave him a empty gallon jug to pee in while in the tree stand. He did not see a bear for the whole time over several weeks. I eventually found out he was peeing in the jug while in the stand and then pouring it over the side of the stand. He was also bringing in potato chips and cans of pop to snack on in the stand. Who brings in crinkley cellophane bags and chips along with cans of pop to a hunting tree stand?
(Ok Me talking again)
Yep this guy is a real gem of hunting knowledge and experience, but I'm the one who is F----- up according to him! Interesting thing is that it's funny now .....weeks later. At the time it did not seem anywhere nere this funny!
JJ,
I am impressed with your professionalism . I would have been considering using hunter number 1 for hyena or crock bait lol. tom
Jim,
I apologize for taking liberties with your story, I didn't post it as an attachment (since you didn't), but should have checked with you before forwarding it on..sorry.
dave
It's kind of funny to read about, but it must have been pure hell to live through it.
Could I have a copy too? Thanks!
lrdavis@mtu.edu
JJHACK:
It�s been a slow day at the office, so I thought I�d settle in and read your missive on slob hunters. Thanks for getting back so quick.
So tell me, is there anything else you can do wrong? About the only things that come to mind are:
Shooting the PH
Shooting at the locals
Attempting to bed the PH�s immediate family
Having your heroin kit confiscated
Dropping a tab of LSD before the buff hunt
It ain't just the hunters that are nuts.
I used to be a caver in the National Speleological Society. Occasionally we�d get newbies showing up with strange ideas on what caving was all about. These were serious technical trips where even minor injuries could become fatal because of the isolation and harsh environment. One guy showed up with no map and a large ball of string that he had been building for some time, and was going to do a 5 mile solo trip laying out string to find his way back if he got lost. He was sent home with a note to his doctor to adjust his medication.
Another group of 4 cavers showed up at the fieldhouse and wanted in on a bust-a$$ 6 mile trip scheduled for that night. They had credentials, so we let them come. 2 hours in we discovered they were high on Wild Turkey and hashish they had smuggled in to the cave in their packs. We had to keep stopping so the one guy could change the batteries in his Walkman. Furthermore, they were all surgical nurses from a Cleveland hospital who�d just done back-to-back shifts in the OR and then downed uppers and driven through to the caves in southern KY. When the uppers wore off, we had to carry them.
Could I have a copy, too?
rvanstralen@fswta.comThanks!
JJ,
Relevant to the other hot thread of the day -- what kind of rifle did the hunter have a double-feed with?
John
Both were hunting with Remington model 700's. This season I had two hunters have fail to fire or jams with them and another PH had a fail to feed causing a miss of what was likely the biggest warthog of the season. He felt the gun was loaded because he cycled the action to load it,... but apparantly the bolt never picked up a case from the magazine and the chamber was still empty.
I'm waiting on a post here from one of the hunters this year. He has had a bit of computer trouble. Maybe he will describe the situation a bit better then I will as it was his friend that this happened to. The bizzare part of this is that the previous evening at dinner there was a discussion on CRF and PF rifles which was very amusing. The very next day this happens to show the guys what we were talking about!
JJ
Thanks for the most interesting read.
Starting out reading Jim's account I was feeling a little sorry for hunter #1 because I could identify somewhat with his condition. I remember when I was there in 2002. On arrival in J'burg I was completely wiped out from the long flight and didn't nap any on the subsequent drive from J'burg. With every animal spotted from the van on the drive in I had my face plastered against the window to get a look. It was impossible to sleep.
Arriving at Landelani Jim took us out to test rifles and then took a drive around. Jim - remember the 3 Kudu on the kopje? Jim hopped out and I followed. A couple of opportunities presented themselves, but I never pulled the trigger. Jim wasn't happy.
LESSON #1 - Talk to your PH - Let him know if you're a zombie and in no condition to be shooting, let alone carrying a rifle - contrary to rumors, the PH can't read your mind!
The next day was the 1st day of hunting and I was a wreck! Sweating heavily, nervous as hell, amazed that I was actually seeing for the first time animals that I had been dreaming about for 3 years! I had buck fever the like I'd never experienced before. Fortunetly, I missed cleanly the kudu and impla I'd shot at that day. I remember looking at them in the glass without focusing on the crosshairs at all.
LESSON #2 - If you can identify with anything I've said, take Jim up on his offer to tour Kruger for a couple of days before the hunt. That will help you relax and get used to seeing the animals before getting down to business.
No worries though - by the next day I was fine and was able to shift into hunting mode and had a blast.
Anyway, too bad about hunter #2 - an inexpensive$ trigger job could have prevented a potentially ruined trip of a lifetime - only Jim's 375HH prevented that. As far as hunter #1 - I guess some will just never learn....
pud
Dan, even with the dozens of hunters I have had since your hunt years ago I still vividly remember your trip hunting with me. That evening when we saw those bulls run up the hill and we tip toed up over the ridge only to see three shootable bulls at fifty yards was quite a sight. Those bulls were quite lucky that they were together. The "school if fish" theory was working well in their favor. With three bulls that big how can you possibly know which one to shoot. Not to mention that we had stalked so close so quick( unusual for Kudu to allow this) that we could not even speak to sort them out.
Some time after that I thought to myself that we would end up with no Kudu for you after blowing that chance and it would haunt me for a long time.
Then a few days later we spotted another Kudu when Gehrad was driving for me. He is a good PH with years of experience. However he does not have as much knowledge as I have on this piece of property. He said to me in Afrikaans that was a good shootable bull. I know we have really big bulls and if you're patient you will find them. Patience is tough when the other hunters are racking up trophies though.
When we saw that nice bull I looked it over and decided not to let you shoot. Later that evening He really gave me a hard time for that. He thought we blew a good chance for your Kudu. I told him the three we saw the first day were all bigger and I could not let you shoot a 50"ish" bull this early when we had passed on some that were well over 50". We have a lot of respect for each other which allows us to be hard on one another and still be very respectful and remain very good friends.
It was later in the week I saw a huge bull at the double pond and suggested to him he take you and Stacy there for the evening as she really liked the game viewing there, as you remember. Well low and behold that monster bull is on your wall right now! That is the most perfectly formed set of Kudu horns I have ever seen in my life. It's a Kudu of a lifetime for sure!
It was a day or two later that Gehrad said to me thanks for being picky on that bull early in the week. We would have watched this one come and go if you had already filled out on that trophy fee. Then it was my turn behind the scenes to take credit from him for that big bull! He laughed and realized I was right. However it could have so easily turned out bad for me had you not shot a Kudu after that!
I can still see that monster Kudu in my mind. I hope you don't plan on shooting a better one because in all my years I have never seen one I would rather have!
Jim,
That big 'ol Kudu is hanging in my brothers house. He's got a cathedral entrance that really does the kudu justice. Kudu on one side of the entry, and our grandads big horn sheep on the other.
He says it's mostly elk hunters that have been stopping by to take a look at him. Recently, a Bellingham taxidermist called to set a time to come over and look at it (chuckle). That big 'ol boy was certainly the high point of the trip! What are you feeding them kudu, anyway? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Thanks again for a great hunt and a great experience!
Well I didn't get my copy from JJ...it probably went in the junkmail and my fiance threw it out...since I forgot to mention it coming. Could I get another? Please???
mrfisher59@hotmail.com
JJ, I highly respect your profesionalism, always have, always will.
But, when it come down to the bottom line, It appears, you let a couple of green dude's blind side you.
Could i Get a copy too??
Thanks,
sean1277@hotmail.com
JJ,
Not only do you need to post that story, you have to finish it! I agree with all of the previous comments about those two hunters, but I got to admit, you had me in tears. You are a very entertaining writer and I know the story has to be true. There is no way you could make something like that up.
The funniest parts to me was when the situations would get so bad, they had you doubting yourself. It is a typical response to a situation that is so unbelievable that you doubt your own eyes and experience. It truly was a sad hunt, but I've got to hand it to you that somehow those two didn't just disappear into the bush for good.
I bet your trackers and skinners were having a good laugh at your expense. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
JJHACK:
Yes, I do want to read anything further that you have to write on "How not to go on Safari," and I'll gladly receive. read, archive and share any e-mails or postings on this topic. Unless I win the PowerBall lottery I'll never have the disposable income to do more than hunt small game and deer here in Missouri, but the general principles, skills and ethics of hunting apply everywhere. And if I ever do win PowerBall, I'll probably be a paying customer for an African plains game hunt.
One more thing. This thread has brought out the possible effects of "jet lag" on hunting performance. Disruption of a person's normal circadian rhythm is no small matter. I knew about this in connection with rotating shift work, but I hadn't made the connection to international travel and other activities.
Good luck and good hunting!
JJ,
I agree with Longbob about wanting you to fill in the rest of the adventure. The story was tragically sad in so many ways, but it was very entertaining in the way you wrote it (I found myself laughing out loud at times).
I hope you'll fill in the rest of the story because no doubt it'll be both instructive and entertaining.
Thanks for sharing with us the tale of misadventures.
can I have one?
Thanks,
gotogirl3
snash@totalzone.com
JJHACK, just how big was that Kudu?
To anyone else, can you send me a copy also:
writeluismontreal@hotmail.com
Can I please get a copy?
brockavich2@comcast.net Jamie
OK, I can't take it anymore!
Someone please send a copy to:
bmt4tax@eugene-law.comThanx, BMT
a little late, but I'd like to get a copy if possible:
leomort@hotmail.com Thanks
I would like one yoo please.
Thanks <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
darryl_chase@fleetwoodhomes.com
JJ,
I'm probably setting new records for tardiness, however, I would love to have a copy...
mattgarrett@earthlink.netRegards, Matt.
....While your at it.... My curiosity has been piqued. I'd like a copy as well.
S o a z h u n t e r @aol.com
Thank you
can some one please send this to me
eli112711@comcast.net <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/help.gif" alt="" />
Ok, I'm new and interested---
jwmkc@charter.net
I don't suppose I could get a copy of this at the following address:
spinfantry@yahoo.comThanks.
Mike
Me three
maccools@shaw.cathks
Martin
Got an interesting Email on this thread today from a fella. Seems it's in poor judgement for me to have done this. I should have "Taken this info to the grave".
Well there has been 2000 visits to this thread and I know I have sent out about 100 copies of the notes I threw together on this subject. Because of this I think it's more of a service to future hunters then a problem for my credibility. I did not to my recollection send a copy to the fella making the complaint. Although he may have an Email I don't know of or gotten it from another visitor here? In any case he feels I'm ruining my business by making everyone else fearful of the chance I would write some horrible post about their capabilities.
Well I really doubt that, and the comment makes me believe he did not read the little story either. Anyone who reads that story would have killed these guys before the end of the trip, at least one of them! It's almost like it's made up! The reality is that nobody else on our planet could possibly do so much wrong and be so rude and thoughtless. The real kicker is that he was not even aware of it! I guess I just got lucky to find this JackA$$! Those of you who have read this know exactly what I'm talking about. It's no risk for any normal human being that has a problem or makes a mistake. We are all human. However the story is not about a normal human, it's about a "pod" somebody with absolutely no functional personality or logical train of thought. As a matter of fact after the hunt his partner suggested that he would probably have been better off on his medication. I was stunned and replied what medication is he on? The answer............anything he can get high with cheap! But he was afraid he would get busted going through customs so he is trying to be "straight" for the trip. Duh........ he is carrying a gun!
Oh well you know the saying can't please all the people all the time. I sure can't please the complaining fella even once,....... ever,....... not even a little bit! However on average with just over 250 hunters through my camp, it's about a 250:1 ratio of those that had a successful good time hunting with me, and the one fella still fighting with the outfitter he chose to go with 18 months after they got back!
Yep it must be me!
Don't sweat it, Jim...anyone who doesn't agree with you on this story probably isn't someone you want to take hunting anyway..
dave
Mentioning him by name would have been in bad taste ( which you didn't do BTW).
Otherwise, I think it's a very good thread. Why someone would plan an expensive event and not show up prepared, is beyond me... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
JJ,
Usually I am not a "me too" poster, but Dang,
If i should ever lose my mental faculties to the point I act like the fellow on that hunt, break my gun, drive off and leave me to at least an honorable death by the hyenas, more than I would deserve for treating game, and men like that.
If I am ever able to hunt with you, hope I dont have to pair up with someone like that. You put up with it and did your best for the "hunter". and didnt leave him in the bush. you are a good man
I am not.
lewis
Lewis, I never automatically pair hunters up. Hunters with me come as 2X1 hunters together. Now,... Having said that I have on occasion been asked to assit in locating another hunter for a single guy so that the 2X1 rate could be used. In those cases I have shared the Emails with the guys to get to know one another and make these decisions on their own. By the time they have written, spoken on the phone or met in person they have usually figured out whether or not they want to hunt together.
There has only been one single instance where I had two guys hunt together that did not quite get along well and I had to intervene and find a solution. On the otherhand I have had a half dozen 2x1 "buddies" come after a year of planning the hunts together. By the time the hunt was over they are not even speaking to each other. It's usually for silly things like not getting the "kill shot" on video, or one fella steps on a branch spooking game while the other was going to shoot. Then maybe hard feelings over one guy shooting something bigger then the other.
Im my business even with the conservative good nature of most spertsman I still have to deal with humanity. Humans can be a tricky bunch to figure out. I can pretty much guarantee I know how a warthog or wildebeest is going to act with greater odds then I will know how an average human will.
JJHACK, still have not received a copy.
Would you send me a copy also:
writeluismontreal@hotmail.com
JJ,
Please send me a copy at your convenience.
mrbowhunr@cox.netThanks,
BOWHUNR
I would like to read this as well If you don't mind.
I know I am jumping in late , but I would love to have a copy.
Thanks!
darryl_chase@fleetwoodhomes.com
I'm up for one also.
snb13@hotmail.comScott
JJHACK- Please send me a copy of the story too, whenever it is convenient.
Regards- Jim.....
The requests for the copy are really high. It's OK with me to send it out. But I need an Email from you guys so that I can just reply with the attachment. Other wise it's too long a process to do the cut and paste and back and forth for 10-15 of these at a time.
If you want this send me and Email and I can easily reply with a feww clicks of the mouse.
JJHack,
thanks for sending the story. If I hadn't bumped into my share of slob hunters myself I would almost not believe some of it. You seem to have handled it with as much patience and professionalism as he deserved and a lot more.
Please e-mail story to me as well.
mattu@djanda.com
JJ
Thanks for sending me a copy. Nicely written and an interesting
read.
Sheesh, you really had to put up with some problem children.
Good thing you and your partner were able to provide some
adult supervision. It does seem that those two went to an
awful lot of trouble and expense, going all the way to Africa,
just to foul up. From what you were saying, it sounds like one
is salvageable though.
On the other topic, don't know where else it is used, but
I have heard "sticker bush" used in Western Pennsylvania,
although I don't think that the Pennsylvania briars, brambles,
jaggers and sticker bushes are in the same class as the SA
haakenstick tree.
And that's quite okay. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Yes, I'd like to read it too! Thanks in advance.
vettas@go.comEdited for this: I sent an email directly to you at your above address.
I'm new to the forum, but would love to read the article. Please someone, send to below address:
eric_isp@yahoo.comNote an "underscore" between eric and isp.
Thanks.
I'd like a copy of the article when you have time.
elkhtr@comcast.netThanks
The requests for the copy are really high. It's OK with me to send it out. But I need an Email from you guys so that I can just reply with the attachment. Other wise it's too long a process to do the cut and paste and back and forth for 10-15 of these at a time.
If you want this send me and Email and I can easily reply with a feww clicks of the mouse.
****Copied from above***