Well, I have a new Rem 700 338 Win Mag that I'll be taking to South Africa in August. I bought Federal Premium 225gr TSX and Accubond to try. The rifle was sent to Eddie Fosnaugh where he bedded it in a B&C stock, worked the trigger and cerakoted the action. The Accubond went in about a 3/4" group, all touching. The TSX wasn't as good, two or three into about an inch maybe 1.25" and then would throw one about 2" out. Everyone raves about the TSX, so take the Accubonds that shoot or the TSX that will penetrate better? I also have some 250gr Partitions to try. I'm going after everything from impala to elan. Thanks!

Unless the partitions turn out to be better, take the accubonds and go forth and slay critters!

Confidence in your accuracy and not second guessing yourself on the shot will go a long way.


maddog

I've seen the 225 AccuBonds used on just about all the bigger common plains game except eland, including waterbuck, kudu, zebra, gemsbok and blue wildebeest, and they worked great. But I also know the 250 Partition REALLY works on eland, and in my own .338 shoots very well with H4831.

I'm a big fan of Accubonds, they work. I'll try the Partitions and go with the better if the two. Wanted the Barnes to work, oh well. Thanks guys.

Unclear on your post. If the TSX is putting 3 shots into 1-1.25", isn't that good enough?

"The TSX wasn't as good, two or three into about an inch maybe 1.25" and then would throw one about 2" out."

I would totally deal with with 1.25", it's the every third or fourth round flier of 2" or so that is the issue.

That'll kill any game out to 300 yds

Really? A shot 2" out of a 1" group at 100 yards will be around 7" from point of aim out at 300. In many animals that would result in a hit about the diaphragm with a shoulder-crease hold.

A friend of mine who's an excellent, experienced game shot hunted in Tanzania with me a couple of years ago. He wounded one blue wildebeest at about 250 yards as it quartered toward him, and it was lost. It was sighted-in the day the safari started, but this was two weeks later, after bumping around a couple of hundred miles in a Toyota Land Cruiser. It turned his rifle was shooting two inches to the right, so instead of shooting the wildebeest in the shoulder joint the bullet had gone half a foot to the right, probably only going through one lung--which ain't enough on a wildebeest.

One drop of blood and you buy it? I would go with confidence. My .02

In my travels to Zim, I had a couple of 200gr Barnes stay inside of 2 Eland and 2 Zebra so went to the 225gr TTSX. I am absolutely thrilled with that bullet to date.

If you can get the 225gr TTSX to shoot consistently into 1.25 or so without the fliers, I would run that bullet and never look back. Actually, I did and DO run that bullet and see absolutely no need to consider anything else. If my rifles barrel would not shoot that bullet, I would change the barrel or the rifle before I would go with a different bullet. It is THAT good IMO.

Be sure to try deep seating depths with that or other Barnes bullets. If you are short on time and or bullet money, try seating them to have the case neck nearly cover the uppermost relief groove and crimping the case over into that groove a bit, using it like a cannelure. Manny, many times that has cured the evil flyers from a rifle using a Barnes X bullet of some version.

GOOD LUCK AND GOOD HUNTING

Oh yeah, bullet terminal performance WAAAAYYY over gilt edged accuracy. Not even close. If it will shoot into under 1.5 inches and blow through both sides of whatever, while expanding a little, you are GTG.

I think some of you guys are missing the point. He's leaving in Aug., he bought factory ammo. He stated nothing about reloading. I agree that if he was reloading, he might be able to fix the "flyer" on the TSXs, but if he's buying factory ammo, go with the most accurate of the three. They will all get the job done with proper shot placement. If the OP comes back and states he's reloading, then maybe my thoughts aren't quite as valid.


maddog

Yes factory ammo. A little more info on the trip. I normally shoot a 30-06 for nearly everything I hunt. My company informed me in February that I would be going on a Safari to SA in August. I work for a great company. So, initial thought was take one of my '06's. They run 165gr AB's and have worked on everything I've shot with them in North America. I reload for my other rifles, just didn't have enough time to get everything for the 338 pulled together in time.

Rifle looney part of me said buy a 338WM or 375H&H for the trip. I love the 338WM and wanted another one so I bought a used BDL and sent it off. If it didn't shoot what I wanted how I wanted it would stay home. That leads us to now, it shoots AB's too good to change out the barrel just to shoot the Barnes. I'll run the Partitions and AB's again and make the call. I'm not a guy that will "settle" for 2" accuracy. When I get the reloading side going, I'll try the Barnes again.

I'd get off the bags at 100 yards,take both loads to 300 yards, flop prone and fire a few 3 shot groups with each to see if there was much difference, since 100 yard groups fired over sandbags don't tell the whole story.

More importantly I would watch for any difference in first shot, cold barrel POI; since BG animals are generally not shot with "groups".

I would go with what MD said and I'll add on the eland, you are going to have to "fight the bullet" instead of being able to take the first presentable shot available. Specifically, avoid the shoulder or off axis shots (quartering away)at short ranges (I'd hazard a guess and say 95% of all shots over there are taken at ranges less than 100 yards)with the AB. If the Partition works for you, I'd pick that all day long over the AB.

BG--I want to work for your company!

I agree totally with jorge...if the partitions prove to be equal to or better than the accubonds,take them. Otherwise us the ABs, and concentrate on shot placement.

maddog

I've sent partitions and Barnes to AFrica wiht folks.

I MUCH prefer the results of the BArnes, especially on things like Eland etc... that can get fairly large.

That being said I would not deal with something that shot 3.5 moa groups at 100 yards. Just not my cup of tea. And limits your distance for sure. In theory depending on which way it tosses the bullets 2 inches out , you could be saying its a 5 moa group with the "fliers"

Bullet performance is ultimate to me, but I won't deal with anything less than 2moa and prefer much less.

PS.. 225 tsx, ttsx with RL 19 IIRC, in a Rem 700 has shot VERY VERY well over many years for us....could be RL22, I'd have to go back and dig up the data but it was a load that produced many 100 yard groups under an inch with a SS SPS 700

I agree and disagree. If a hunter knows their rifle is a 2 MOA gun then they need to take that into account. Aim to the middle of the forward half of a medium or large animal and it will die. Realize that with a 2 MOA killing isn't a Dead Right There thing. If your in an area at sundown tracking is going to be a bitch. As Dirty Harry well stated, " a man's got to know his limitations". Use some common sense and don't shoot when tracking and recovery is ridiculous. Finally it's better to stalk closer than 300 yards if your and your rifle are a 2 MOA combo.

OK, so I just read on the Barnes site that they recommend thoroughly cleaning jacketed material from the barrel before using their bullets. I ran about 6-8 of the AccuBonds through the rifle before I switched to the Barnes. Do you think that would cause any of the issues i'm having? The barrel has Wipeout soaking in it right now, I'll clean when I get home tonight. I'm thinking of heading to the range and trying this again..

Also, is Wipeout strong enough? Barnes recommends their cleaner or Sweets 7.62 for copper removal. I have Wipeout and Hoppes at the moment..

idahoguy,

You're not getting it. With fliers 2" away in any direction, it is NOT a 2 MOA rifle. It's more like a 5 MOA rifle--which means a 15" group at 300 yards.

Oh... I hadn't considered that. Thanks for explaining it. I missunderstood the premise

Wipout is plenty, Sweets or the Barnes cleaner (sameshit) doesn't hold a candle to it. Try some of the other loads suggested by members here and do the opposite when it comes to seating, in some of my rifles, Barnes prefer deeper seating.

John, what do you think of the 210gr Partition in the 338WM?

In my experience it works very well on game up to elk size. For game over 1000 pounds I prefer the 250 Partition, or something like the 225 TSX.

The heaviest animals I've taken with the .338 were a good Alaskan moose and an equally good eland. On the moose I used the discontinued 230-grain Fail Safe, which worked on game very much like the TSX, but was usually more accurate than the original X, at least in my experience. It was a frontal shot, with the moose a little above me, and the bullet was found against the front of the pelvis. The moose went down pretty quickly!

The first 250 Partition went into the eland sideways, as it hit a tiny thorn branch just before hitting the eland. It still made him sick enough to stop within 100 yards, and a second bullet went on through, dropping the bull right there. I've also shot lengthwise through a big blue wildebeest bull with the 250 Partition, so it works pretty well.

MD did you ever try and reload the 300 AB to see if it would stabilize in a 338 Win Mag?

Nope, but a 300 Berger will, so I assume the AB will.

I used a 338 in Namibia with 225gr Partitions, 5 bang flops (including eland) and a kudu that ran 75yds. One of the other guys in camp was also using a 338 but with 225gr TSXs, all his critters died.

If they shoot for you, either of these bullets are fine choices.



Do you work in Wixom?

405wcf

Thanks, and yes ;-)

You have a PM

I don't have a .338 WM, but a host of other rifles.

Barnes bullets like to jump.

If I was working with your rifle, I'd be trying some pretty hefty jumps and see how it did.

If it just doesn't like the TSX or TTSX (I'd try both), then I'd go with what it liked.

Barnes are good, but it's hard to fault the NPT for most uses.

NAB's will work for a bunch of what you're after. For long range PG, those would be great and accurate at long range. You may be able to have more than one bullet at nearly the same POI. Use NAB's for everything but the toughest stuff.

Just a thought. I've never been to Africa, but am getting my firepower all set just in case...

DF

Accuracy and performance can go together in my experience. I've seen good accuracy from Nosler Partitions & Accubonds, & excellent accuracy from the Ballistic Tips. Am very happy with the results on game from all three of those Nosler bullet types.

Same with the Barnes TSX I used for a while - very good accuracy and typical TSX performance on game, meaning a hole all the way through with a fair bit of damage to anything hit.

Am figuring on using the 260 gr Accubond from my .375 when I go to Africa. Why not? MOA groups, and excellent performance on the only critter I've shot with it, a black bear at a tad over 300 yards. This sample was recovered after slamming it into some water jugs at 20 yards. It fared much better than several other bullets subjected to the same test.

Couldn't recover the Accubond from the bear, it buried itself in the hillside beyond.



The initial 100 yard group that let me know something good was going on with my .375 and the 260 gr Accubond:


Another group, later on, sighting in a 1.5-5x Leupold.


Good hunting bullets can be accurate too, no doubt.

Guy

I totally agree with you, my first group with the Accubond's looked like yours above. My title was a little of off since both are excellent performers. Good shootin'..

'06, 150G's of Luv...

I agree with John...the Barnes load would worry me. Time to take a bash at Federal Premium factory ammo with Partitions and see how they shake out. For me, the Nosler Partition is like running home to Momma. Nice and safe. There's a reason that it's still the benchmark for performance.

Did You Scrub And Give The Barnes Another Hi? My BeT Is That Helps.

OK, took longer than expected but I was able to get out and put a couple more through the gun. It was cleaned with Wipeout, looked perfect. The groups were better, all under 1.5" but still showing two together and one off (except for the first group, which was higher and more spread out than the rest of the groups). I let the barrel cool off between strings, but it wasn't cold like the first group. Maybe that caused the drop in elevation??

I'd say this is good enough to use once I rezero back to about 1.5" high at 100. The last group was a quick 3 rd group with 250gr Partitions and I feel I pulled the one off to the left. I'm gonna clean again and run the same drill.

Group "A" on the first row and group "D" on the second look best. Looks like operator error on group C top row

Try a box of Barnes Vortex 225 grain TTSX. I have a Blaser R93 barrel in ,338 WM that is very finicky with most factory loads, but shoots the Vortex 225's into .5"-.75" with monotonous regularity.

I have hunted and killed eland recently. They are a very large, heavy, big boned animal. I killed mine with a TSX out of a .338 and it performed beautifully. My advice is to avoid anything that is on the frangible side. Remington loads a 225 grain Swift A-Frame in .338. Give that a try as well. The A-Frame is a much tougher bullet than a Partition or an Accubond in terms of retained weight.

I was at my LGS yesterday and they had the new Federal Premium Copper loads in stock in both .338 Win 225 grain and .300 Win 180 grain. The bullet looks identical to the Barnes TTSX, except it has a black tip instead of a green one. It's supposed to be 100% copper with no gilding metal in the mix. If you still have time, worth a try.

The .338 Win 225 grain had a MV of 2,800 fps listed on the box. the .300 Win was listed at the usual 2,960 fps.

Be sure to get in some practice off-the-sticks before you go. Everyone has their own preferred technique, but I gasped the stick intersection point and rested the front forearm on the sticks - it was almost as steady as shooting off the bench.

FWIW - I've only made one trip, but I used 250gr Nosler Partitions in my Model 700 338 WM. One shot, DRT, kills on Impala and Blue Wildebeest. Shot my Zebra poorly and it took two shots. The bullets performed as designed. I used 450gr TSX in my 458 WM for buffalo and the bullet expanded and stayed together perfectly.

But why turn a 1 MOA rifle into a 2 MOA rifle when there are so many good premium bullets around?

I use a Barnes 168TTSX on my moose last year and my friend used a 165 Federal Premium Copper on his moose. Not only do they look the same loaded in a case, they look the same expanded when found in the moose. We each recovered one.

Nobody has asked but where are you are going in South Africa? Limpopo or Eastern Cape? What is a reasonable expectation of the length of your shots? Also, what does the FIRST shot do? I don't think you will get off three or four shots at an animal. Personally, I would take the Accubond and wouldn't look back. And if you take the TSX it probably won't make one bit of difference. Stalk closer; it is more fun anyhow.

Agree to all of that.