Looks like a good hearty breed.

Do any of you know this particular breed?

We are in the market for a new dog.

Thanks in advance

They will have plenty of acreage to stretch their legs. And Coyote Trail Mix as they are able.

Friend of a friend has or had a couple. Spendy.

Alberta Fish and Wildlife have used them to assist in problem bear control. There is probably info on the web about this.

How about a Bernese Mountain dog or a Great Pyrnees?

WDFW uses them, met a few at the state fair years ago. Beautiful dogs.

https://mountainlion.org/featurearticleguestblackandwhite1.php

https://wdfw.wa.gov/about/enforcement/KBD

A couple of years ago they had one at the Grizzly Discovery Center in West Yellowstone as part of an interactive display. Its handler said they tended to be aloof and weren’t very good pets. They live for just one thing.

Whats wrong with a fugging lab or a border collie?

Sheesh.....


No, no....I want some stupid, obscure breed of unknown health and temperament.

My best friend has one, pedigreed. Mostly due to owners lack of control when a pup, his dog is a handful. McInnis used the word "aloof", that's it in spades. I am no dog guru, but almost all the dogs I've been around, at some point in their development, became eager to please their masters. Not this dog yet at age 4. No sign of it either. In my opinion, this is one of these breeds that needs a job, all day, every day. Just one dog, just one man's unqualified opinion.

In this case it's a breed bred for a purpose, and as far as I know hasn't been ruined by backyard "breeders" and dumbasses that shouldn't even have dogs. Plus the 2 you mentioned, one is the dumbest breed of dog known to man, the other is a hyper dog that needs out a lot.

Both of which make good pets.

This op Jabronie have a band of sheep he needs to protect from bears in Virginny?

Reminds me of the Lion Tamer sketch.

Both are great breeds. I am hoping for smaller and more agile. We do have a stray mountain lion every once in awhile in West Virginia. However the main problem is coyotes, overly curious black bears and rednecks jacked up on crystal meth.

I feel the same way about Savannah cats. I want no part of a 20 lb cat that can jump 6 ft straight up and behaves more like a dog than a cat (Savannah cats are created by cross breeding an African serval and a domestic cat).

To be fair he didn't say he was looking for a pet.

Sometimes your posts confuse me in the way you jump to incorrect conclusions so quickly. Are you by chance actually in Oregon?

Client/friend of mine has had them for years. They are right by the main entrance to the Bob. Right not I think they have 4.

Love the dogs. They do their job. And they do it very well.

Her female had a litter last year. Got one of the dogs back and I was sorely tempted to take her. But I am afraid we don't have a big enough place for her. This dog makes a big loop every day. We only have 40 acres here and I am afraid that's way too small and I would feel bad containing her in the yard to keep her off the neighbor's.

They are beautiful dogs. Strong. Strong-willed.

If you are really interested I could put you in contact with my friend. They've had Karelians for the 17-18 years I have known and worked for her.

Maybe you should start with a Yorkie or a Sea Bass.

I hear sea bass can be ill tempered.

What if we called it the Yorkshire Paki Slaughtering Dog?

Hey....thats pretty exciting!

I do have a four year old Australian Shepherd male of 53 lb. He is an outstanding family dog. However, I do not think he would fare as well against coyotes, bears or stoned rednecks.

He will kill a groundhog squirrel or rabbit at the drop of a hat. His overconfidence in this would get him in a world of trouble with bigger predators.

What in hell are taking about?

Uggghhh...dog people are almost as bad as horse people.

He probably is light headed having mistakenly leaned over the opening while filling the sprayer tank. No brain cells permanently harmed?

not even close, but in the same family

Horse people are the worst.

Cat people next.

Then dog people.

That's just the animal subset. Pedal bikers own their own subset of annoying fuggers.

I asked for opinions about a specific breed of dog I had no idea this by default... would create a total and complete schetstorm on 17 random things.

Jim it is 100% OK to STFU.

Thats a good point.

Don't be angry. Roll with it. Gently nudge it back on track when it wanders.

Supposed to be tough little fuggers. They'd be more popular if they weren't so expensive. IMHO that's a good thing, and keeps them from being ruined.

Did you forget where you are?

Jeebus.

I still think a Great Pyrnees is a better fit. They can keep predators away without much guidance. From what I've seen, they kind of lay about, then perk up and off they go. Minutes later they come back. It's obvious they've run.

My brother in law used to manage a chicken and turkey farm. The owner had dropped off a couple of Pyrnees. The BIL says he saw the Prynees chasing coyotes away from the barns.

Oregon is ONLY ONE STATE OF 50... did not realize the entire body of 24 hour campfire had been relocated there...

We're on our third since 1991. As BillyGoatGruff said, the price for them is very high and the breeders for good dogs have become scarce.

KBD's are referred to as a primitive breed, so a little different than standard breeds like labs and goldens. They will have a strong hunt drive which can range from squirrels to bears, deer etc., just depends on the individual dog.
They have a tendency to range far and recall is very important to develop early using positive reinforcement. In fact all training should positive reinforcement, regardless. We use e-collars when on hikes and runs strictly for recall and 99% of time use the buzzer, shock mode (and set low) is only used when we know they are blatantly ignoring us and they need to get back quick and when they do come they get a reward, used maybe once or twice a year if that.

Their reputation like so many dog breeds is a bit exaggerated as to " bravery", " loyalty" etc. They're still dogs and each is an individual. Our first one was raised from a pup and was a cat hunting machine, very driven, and not so great with the neighbors. He did great around people and took to training well after we figured it out. Our second was a pound pup and had no time around people before we got him. He was a good hunter and trained fairly well too but was very aloof and took quite some time to warm up to people. Our third dog we have now was a rescue of sorts that came from a supposed service dog training facility directed at vets with ptsd. Unfortunately the way they were "training" the dogs and the environment in which they were living created ptsd in our dog. It took quite a while to get him straightened out and he will probably never be 100% Karelian. He is a goof ball and more like Ferdinand the bull than a stud KBD baying a grizzly. He does well on the trail and stays close by and follows commands pretty well but if he feels stressed for whatever reason he locks up like a mule and squats. After 4 years he still stresses traveling in a car. He has been great with the kids and is a big lover.

They need a fair amount of exercise everyday. Out in the woods off leash is best but recall is critical, otherwise keep them on a leash until they are trust worthy. They generally do well with other dogs and mine never really started fights but were more than willing to finish them.

Keep in mind the name "Bear Dog" does not equate to Romulus the Conqueror grabbing a grizzly by the neck and dragging it off of you, they don't engage like that and traditionally that was a negative response and frowned on. They circle and harrass and bark, and bark and bark. To own a KBD is to love the bark whether you like it or not cuz you will hear it, a lot. But that is what you have them for, an alarm system to let you know whats around. And don't expect them to be protective against humans like GSD's or Mals. One might be but don't expect it. They'll do a great job of letting you know when people are around but without specific k9 training they ain't "guard' dogs.

We also have a West Siberian Laika which are kissing cousins to KBD's. Very similar in many respects although I think the WSLs may have a tendency to be more aggressive than KBD's.

None of those can match sporting clays shooters. They moon over a $2500 Beretta like it was a Purdey.

Stupid they're not, in fact I've found ours to be much more intelligent than many other breeds, but then that can be a problem. When you give them a command, they don't just say OK they ask "Why?" and you better have a compelling reason "why" . But not force or negative BS, they doesn't work well with that.

Fly Fishermen or pedal bike drivers?



Anyway......a far running, protective, working dog moving to the county.

I dont see what could go wrong. At all.

My communist friend is a dog feind in Denmark.


I bet he has some insight too.


He has had dogs like you describe. Not dogs for "amateurs" he calls them.

My labs got into with my uncle’s Boomer Goldbricker.com new ‘wife’
She lives in a condo in town, my uncle wont move from the farm. Lol

Sh she comes out here to make 75 year old sexy time.

She has a little poopsie puppy shÎtzuu lasso alpo thing.

It ran out all badass and chased me and my labs as we were beaded back to cut firewood.

It charged us, my black lab grabbed it up shook it like a rag doll. Not real bad, it ran off back to their porch ok I guess

Stupid mutt, under.bite jawa micro dog

Yeah, not a dog for first time dog owners, and yet that's exactly what we started with.
But we made it work because we committed ourselves to the fact that the dog was now a family member, not a working tool.

That's the thing, there's the "breed" and then there's the "dog"...like a aa boooxx a chocolates.

Apso thought it was a pitty and the lab thought it was a rat terrier.

Thats what gets me.

These working dogs get bought and the expectations are not met.

Lot of work goes into a proper dog, especially working dogs.

They either end up drawing flies on a neighbors property or at the rescue shelter.

Before I bought our first KBD 29 years ago as a first time dog owner the first thing I did was go to the local pound and look at all the dogs. I read the cards on the kennels for each dog explaining why they were there. The realization set in that most dogs(like 95%) aren't the problem, its the owners. That lesson caused me to pull my head out on what dog ownership is about. Unfortunately not enough people get to that point.

I had a pair Chessies when I was station in SW Georgia.

Minimal training and they would bring home 70# deer... eventually gave up the full butcher job for a basic hide off quarter (I kept part 5 for myself)... they were fine with that exchange rate.

Chessies are plenty tough... and I know the breed.

Aussies are plenty nimble, but lean on kill.

Just figured I would ask on the KBD... we own plenty of mountain land in WV... not worried about "neighbors being too close"... just if the breed is smart and tough enough to deal with vermin.

Thanks for the info guys.

Man i apologize for my unrelated post

I seen this at a glance and thought it was another ‘Karen’ thread.

lol

I thought about getting a pair for my place, but decided free reign of 10 acres wasn't enough. I'll stick with the sarplaninac/anatolian/ovcharka type.

You deserve "24HC Smartazz Of The Year Award"...

The only was to highjack or copy a Karen thread... is make it all about yourself... or claim victim status... or include landscaping progress pictures.

Some dogs are yard protection and some are rangers.

When we were looking at getting sheep we were looking at dogs too Gruff.

Pyrenees for staying with the herd.....and Akbash for perimeter work.

There is no "plenty" amount of land for a running dog.

If you let them roam on their own without boundaries they will eventually get into trouble. They can cover a lot of ground fast. You may not think your neighbors are close but like many dogs, KBD's could cover a dozen or more miles in an hour or two and be killing Mr. Jessops chickens post haste.

They can make a great family/working dog but you have to commit to the time. It needs to be a working relationship with a four legged family member. Keep them in a kennel all day/night and then turn them loose you'll rep the canine whirlwind.

Very interesting SBTCO.

I have seen several that were owned by leaf licking granola women who were animal rights activists trying to prevent bear and livestock conflicts. It was a joke, and funny to watch. The dogs drug the women around, all the time yapping incessantly. ( the dogs, not the women). Hard to judge the dog breed from that, but they did seem pretty hyper, and hi -rev. Personally, I would look at something else.

True enough.


I've never owned a Pyrenees but I've been around and seen quite few. More than one were roamers....... and they're popular with retards so a guy needs to be careful what breeder he goes with. But that's true of any kinda working dog. Just that the odds of getting a dink are less with the less popular breeds. I fenced my perimeter, so as long as they get nailed once by the hot wire they seem to stay put. But before I ran that low wire, they were 5 miles away last time I went after them. I pulled their collars off and said there is no next time fuggers.

That's a whole 'nother level of "dog"!

Makes KBD's look like Pomeranians.

The last dog shot on the place was a Pyrenees.

Son of a bitch was miles from home. By the time he bought it......they had run two heifers to death.


His buddy got away.


Might not have been a bad dog......might have been a rescue. Needed trained.

I dont think there should be rescue dogs above abot 10 pounds in weight.

Who knows?

When we were on the farm, my dad was a dog killing machine. I don't think he even knows how many he shot. I was about 7 when we were out in the sheep pasture. There were the remains of two dogs pretty close together. Dad said they were wild dogs in the sheep. Looking back, I still marvel how he was able to kill two so close together. Dogs are usually smart, maybe second deceased wasn't?

No one bothered to spend money to spay or neuter their dogs. Our dog, "Jingles", was a female and a prolific pup producer. Judging by her pups, she bred with anything. She was a grey and black border collie and German shepherd cross. Great guard dog and intuitive herder and a great patient pet.

Two things got dad; Chase livestock, you're dead and growl or act aggressive towards him on his farm, you're dead. Many of Jingles boyfriends fell into the black hole our farm was. Some travelled 7-8 miles. If dad knew who owned the dog, he would call the owner the first time. If the dog returned, all bets were off. We never caught Jingles chasing livestock until she was about 7. Dad decided it was time to remove the attractant that caused the dog convention. I cried when I was informed that Dad took Jingles on a one way walk. I swear I heard the gunshot as mom told us kids.

We had one of her pups I had named Bruno as I had just read "Call of the Wild". He was to be my sled dog LOL. Turned out Bruno couldn't chase cars worth a lick. He got called out on strikes when he couldn't lay off an off speed drive by an old man. Happened right in front of us as we were building a tree house. "Get the gun dad, he killed my dog. We can get him!" Dad didn't listen to me.

We gotta pup from grandpa named Sparkle. He puked in the truck on the way home. We went fishing one Sunday after church. Fishing was good. We rolled into the yard, and it and the barnyard were white. Dead chickens everywhere. 72 to be exact. 3 survivors. Couldn't believe it was Sparkle, or Sparkle alone. So we tied him up for a couple of weeks. We were tearing down the old barn and Sparkle had been paroled. Dad was on the barn roof and heard the 3 survivors of the massacre going crazy. There was Sparkle trying to dig into the coop/pen where we had filled in the previous hole. I don't think Sparkle got to go on the one way walk, he was shot where he stood.

The next dog i cant remember the name. We left the farm and moved temporarily to an acreage a couple hours drive south. That dog took up cattle chasing. Houses and farms were close together. The cattle owner advised us. Dad told him that if our dog was found chasing cattle, he knew what to do. A few days later, the cattle owner said he had shot our dog. We understood. A couple of months later, we moved into town.

We've had more trouble with neighbors livestock than from dogs. We've had his pigs get into our garden and his goats in our garbage. If I find pigs in the garden again I'm going to have some fresh pork in the freezer. Anybody know what goat tastes like ? We've never had any problems with coyotes though they cross our yard frequently at night and we hear them howling close by regularly. We have had bears in our yard and one got in our garbage once but no real problems with them.

Bait brings bear trouble. I haven't had any in years since my neighbor Rip died (he kept trying to grow fowl), and I got real careful with garbage and bbq drippings cleanup. Dogs get fed inside, bird feeder taken down in March or April.

There are several coastal brown bears around the neighborhood - I live almost next to the Kenai River with it's salmon runs. They are not a problem....here. KBD might be a good idea at some of the fishing lodges, tho.

That's me hugging my male. Big sweethearts with people. Fubar's met them. I'll not be without any going forward. These guys are half anatolian half sarplaninac. When times comes to replace them it'll be the same or ovcharkas. Kissing cousins.

Meat goat or dairy goats?

Meat goats.

Nice!
Looks like there would be enough fur shedding in the spring to knit sweaters for the entire Gruff clan.

Have had a breeding pair and two others. Sold one litter and traded the breeders off.
Karelians are independent minded and do not as a rule bring animals back to you. They will hold or at least try to hold what they are after in one spot by darting in and out. - that is why they are used flor bear hazing. I didn't personally get to work a bear with mine but moose that wandered into the yard got the treatment. That being said - don' get one if you want a dog to hang around and be a companion or want one to
obey your every command. They need lots of exercise and chasing a ball is not it.
Put the last one I had down for biting one of my grand children.
Glad to not have any around any more.

Mid 90's wifey and I looked into them. The more we looked into them we knew it wouldn't work out. We lived in Anchorage and it wouldn't be fair for the pup.

Ended up with GSD's for the last 24 years.

I cant believe Gruff dont have a 2012 Dodge diesel with 44 inch mudders, a 12 inch stack through the box, aluminum lady mud flaps .....and set of chrome hitch nuts.

Goat meat is good.

The mere thought of that arouses me greatly. But my better half is unfortunately practical enough for both of us.

Goat meat is for 3rd world countries and 4rd world religions.

Get them horse dogs to pull you in a wagon.

Have a monkey ride shotgun.



And I like goat meat.


Is Catholicism a Ford religion?

Them dogs won't even fetch. Look at you like you're retarded. If i put them in traces they'd likely revolt and eat me.

Cabrito is supposed to be good? Dunno, but yeah definitely Ford. Like late 90's F150 with the lame front end. But it'll still get you where you're going!

What do the Conrad's have for dogs?

All joking aside, you really could. The birds around here love it when they get brushed. Looks like a dog exploded in the yard.

Check with waterrat here. He has a couple and lives remotely on Lake Iliamna where they have lots of brown bears. The dogs do some amazing things.

Bernese Mountain dogs were mentioned by someone... they are a very sad excuse for a breed. The incredible health issues and early deaths added to the cost of buying one make them about the most expensive dog to own... and least useful.

We have a couple of English Shepherds.

Dad has one too.

Thanks for the intel... looking at Anatolian info now.

Not bailing on KBD...

How nimble would a Anatolian be against a couple of 35-45 coyotes? Yes two or three against one kinda stuff.

On the serious side, I'd check with Yukon 254 as he has a remote lodge with bear issues and he keeps
bear dogs.

35 to 45 coyotes?

Do they have large talons?

Pound...

Thanks on the spectacular catch.

Love dog threads. Even those that go sideways. Working/sporting dogs fascinate me.

Its what I do.

Its what I do.

I guess the bears and yotes aren't quite so fierce up here every dog I've had except the one lap dog has had no trouble chasing either away and none got hurt. Have had about 10 different dogs they were all heinz 57s 70-100 lbs. Well actually Timber my wife's dog when I met her may have been a pure Blue Healer but he came from the SPCA so we don't know for sure. And right now I've got a pure Catahoula, jurries still out on her at 2.5 years old, she's done OK with the couple bears we've ran in to so far.

Anyways had to look up the Karelian dogs never heard of them. Cool looking dogs. Personally they sound a bit too keen on the job for my taste I don't want to have to find and pull a dog off a bear I want it to chase the thing a couple few hundred yards and come back or get it treed and come back when called. YMMV.

There are a lot of sheep owners around here, and they all think they have to own a Pyrenees All I know, is they don't have any idea where they are most of the time and when you drive by their sheep and pasture you better not have your arm hanging out the window. You will lose it. We have lot's of coyotes and some wolves, and they might do their job then but I doubt it.
Again all dogs are as smart as their owner. I would trust a Border Collie before any just because they are smart and can be trained..I don't know what a Llama would do with a bear, but they sure work good on coyotes!

Our WSL is still shedding. She loses anymore and we'll have to start telling people she's a Western Russian Hairless.

Karliea is in Finland and Russia and in the Old Country they weren’t used much on Bear.
I hunted with the guy who imported one of the first ones in Canada—in 1972. It was semi-silent on track—wouldn’t bark until it saw the moose and then did its best to hold it. We killed a lot of moose in front of that dog but he wasn’t much of pet—a real working dog.

If your serious...get a Plott hound. powdr

Not going to wade into the dog fighting aspect, but if you go with the guardian breeds get a pair. They work well together, and while it's more coin up front the dogs will thank you.

Yep, two can work together and why we have always had two dogs together when living in the sticks.

Probably the safer bet.

I know nothing of the KBD's but remember that waterrat had posted about his in the past. He'd be the guy to talk to.

I have elk hunted the Payette National Forest. As well as fought forest fires all over the northern Rockies.

No question y'all have the elevation and damn Long Winters... but other than that West Virginia's about identical to the Sawtooth on typography... just way more rocky... thus the need for a very Nimble dog.

Jim, you might be a little pudgy.

Hahaha!

Probably should get about a dozen Rhodesian Ridgebacks then.

They hate the color black.

No way the neighbors shoot those.

Jim, are you sure it does not bother you to be so wrong so often about so many incorrect assumptions?

And are you sure that you're not actually from Oregon?

After all, there is no great shame in being an Oregon florist.

Flower arrangement has been considered a highly Noble profession for at least a decade now.

I would look into getting the dog on Skype so jim can interview it before you buy, certainly you dont know what kind of dog you want. If jim says its ok, then that's the right dog. Best of luck.

Am I not being serious enough here on the fire?

Here.....on the fire?

Why not post the Appalachian Anal Rape clip you are so proud of if'n you want to serious things up some.


Sensitive......sheesh.

Hey now

Hahaha! Too far?

Not really... just kinda ignorant... or Oregonish

Russo-European Laika dogs are another name that come from the Karelia area of Russia/Finland.

Just depends what side of the border or which club UKC vs AKC you look them up in.
Finnish ones are more of the traditional black/white coloring and can be bigger, the Russo dogs are more varied in black/white shading and can be smaller and more agile.
Good luck with your search and decision.
Went back to GSD's myself after scratching the Karelian itch.

Yes.....indeed.


So.....Mr. Serious......where do you live now?

Town or county?

Country...

But not that bad... I can dail in two radio stations... three is I don't mind some static.

You would make a good stunt double for Ned Beatty if you dropped a couple hundred pounds.

But I wouldn't bother... Deliverance II probably won't happen now that Burt is dead.

Heard Roy Clark is dead too... can anyone confirm?

So Town then?

Yeah......

Gentleman, very much appreciate the time you've invested in helping answer questions. In the end, KDBs and many of other large breeds will need more range and effort than our mountain in WV would provide.

While WV is raw and beautiful... it is obviously nowhere near as vast as Montana, Idaho or Alaska. And with the primary vermin being coyotes, nosey black bears and crystal meth rednecks... maintenance and training of such large dogs does not remain logical.

We will look at smaller breeds. Highly nimble remains paramount. The Mountain Cur dog was brought to my attention by a friend. They were born and bred in the Appalachian Mountains... and most of the breeders remain in the central eastern mountains.

Stumbled across one breeder in Wyoming if anyone in the northern Rockies has similar interest in the breed.

http://www.wyomountaincurs.com

Since this thread is no longer about KBDs... I will ask if you have information about the Mountain Cur breed or knowledge of reliable breeders to please contact me by private message.

Thanks, Cash

https://i.imgur.com/XcKMjvt.jpg I'm trying to make pic's work.

KBD work as adverised,, ours are exceptional with lots of on the job training. In Alaska you can trail a wounded bear with a leased dog,,at least the dog lets you know when you are closing in. My wife handle's and I try to keep up with a 458 ready to go. https://imgur.com/m4H0NpXhttps://imgur.com/H9evhMZhttps://imgur.com/m4H0NpX

Spaced out your pics... Nice looking family!

Nice looking bear!

Wow! Great pic and nice bear.

You're a blessed man in many ways!!

My Aussie on a groundhog...

https://photos.app.goo.gl/ks4R3izN269eh9Lq7

Slight difference on quarry.

Similar markings... reason I posted. #53

My 3 lb. Yorkie on a Lion track

It's the 24 Hour Campfire, what did you expect would happen? lol