'69 Chevelle. 3 speed auto transmission (horseshoe on the floor).

Went to dinner and all was well. Turned the ignition to go home and nothing. Radio and lights work, but it wouldn't even "click" to turn over. I installed a stud off the starter to use a bump starter when setting zero lash, and managed to use the bump starter to get her running to get home.

Neutral safety switch wires all seem to be well connected. I have not jacked the font end up to look at the starter wires yet.

What all should I be checking to try and determine if it is the NSS, the ignition switch or the starter solenoid wiring?

thanks.

Ground....imo

Check your PM's.

Clean the battery cables at the posts and check the connection to the starter.

kwg

Chevy starter heat soak


The old man’s stingray used to do that to me.

A mop handle to the side of it sometimes helped, that or just let it set for an hour.

Tap on the starter with a hammer while cranking.

Curious, do you know where the starter is located on this car?

"...bump starter when setting zero lash, and managed to use the bump starter to get her running to get home."

Bump starter sounds like something I might want. What is it? And how how do you use it? Thanks for bringing this up.

Do people even read threads anymore before replying? I mean seriously.

Check the ground.
Clean the cables.
Tap the starter.
Heat soak.
Use a effing hammer.

The car started just fine bypassing the NSS and the ignition switch, using the bump starter; that unequivocally eliminates all of the above.

Stop. Read. Think. Reply.

The concept is pretty effing simple.

Its like I'm playing cards with my brothers kids or somthin; you nerve wracking son's of bitches.....

Youre the moron with a pos starter

I'll send you a PM. It is handy!!

Tell me how it can be a starter issue when it started just fine having bypassed the ignition and the NSS dickkhead.

Seriously.

Think before you type.

Bold strategy Cotton, lets see if it pays off for him

it’s your POS, maybe youre too dumb to understand the nuances of owning a classic car

Sounds to me like youre just a rich pussy that wrote a check for something youve never broke a sweat working on

In other words you have no clue, but your home made Tennessee closet hootch has you banging away at the key board like you do?

Wait. Dave's got kids?
grin

Haha. I think there might be an old thread about that....

Clearly you have a faulty turbo encabulator.

Once in a while over the years, something like this would occur with one of my old Chev V8 starting systems and, if I KNEW that the battery was good and had power elsewhere (lights/radio/horn that did not dim or go off when cranking) I would figure it to not be a battery ground issue, so would bypass the IGN switch (only had one autotrans with NSS) and if that did not enable it to spin or even click, I would assume the problem to be the solenoid. That particular solenoid has a plunger/disc setup that can burn/melt/get dirty - or a lead in there might melt or break loose - or otherwise fail to plunge and work. If rebuilding the solenoid parts or installing a new one did not make it spin, I would ask a bunch of experts for help.

I’m guessing underneath it?

By the way....I've personally touched probably 75% of the nuts and bolts on this car. 18 months of blood and sweat.

I may be rich; but I'm no pussy.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/13448730/1

Starter solenoid it could be!

Trying to get some insight on how best to start the process of elimination between the NSS, ignition switch and the starter solenoid.

Appreciate the input.

Then you put something together wrong. lol

I used to own a 69 Chevelle SS automatic. I'm also an ASE Master Tech so here goes.

If it starts with your "bump" switch, then there is no power at the little wire on the solenoid. Check the purple wire under the dash at the ignition switch. The switch is on the top of the column under the dash. Not up by the key. There is a little rod that connects them. If no power at the purple wire then check other big wire (? red) going into the switch. If it is ok then probably the switch is bad.

If no power at the red wire then check the neutral safety switch. Located on the side of the transmission.

On cars this old you sometimes have to check the starter wire at all connectors.

Good luck!

John

Bill, I can offer no help regarding your starting difficulties as I’m about as mechanically inclined as a Walrus but I do appreciate sentimentality and grand gestures. The story of finding it, restoring it and giving it back to your wife was awesome, especially since her dad was able to be a part of it.

Good luck figuring out the problem.

Now THAT is helpful!

I've only managed to make sure connections are tight, and have checked all you've mentioned above.

The car got delivered yesterday morning and I'm in the middle of a relocate from AK to NM, so have no access to any of my tools, but will do a bit of shopping tomorrow and follow up to see if I can check some of the continuity between the NSS and the starter solenoid.

Tks.

You might try Wiggling the connector at the neutral safety switch while someone else tries starting it. try in both park and neutral. Be careful, and don't get run over!

John

If you are moving to Albuquerque, look out. They will steal that car in a heartbeat..

Carlsbad; unfortunately.

She has an onboard GPS tracker and a few other tricks to help minimize the potential.

Wife and kids are still in AK, and wife texts me every time I leave the house in it, wondering where I am headed...haha.

Replace the wobbler arm.

Tighten the canootin valve.

So you think it’s the solenoid but you think tapping on it to get it to start/troubleshoot the problem is a bad idea?

Check the air pressure in left rear tire Should 38.5 psi. Also this is the most important part make sure your driver side window is half way down.

Gee you’d think the thing might have a starter relay that is bad, or has a bad wire.

Neutral, or in your case, park safety switch or related wiring.

Solenoid

Bad spot in armature

Worn armature bushings allowing armature to touch a field

Smacking starter with a hammer sometimes wakes up or changes things in the starter/solenoid & it starts, for a while. But it will fail again if that's it.

My first wife's father, life long mechanic, would tell Chevy owners to find a Ford hub cap and throw it in the trunk.

That should help/

This is a reasonable list of possibilities, but doesn't give any diagnostics.

NSS - first and easiest test is to hold the key in the start position and work the shifter back and forth through park and neutral a few times. If this makes it start or at least spin, the switch is bad or out of adjustment. If no response, a test light will show if power is getting to the small terminal on the solenoid when the key is turned. No power means bad wiring, bad ignition switch, or bad NSS. More probing with a test light will isolate the problem.

Solenoid - they almost never go bad on these starters.

Worn bushings - Starter would still click, but crank slow or not at all if this were the problem

Tapping on starter makes it work - This indicates worn brushes in starter. If the brushes in a GM starter don't make contact with the armature, the solenoid won't pull in even though power is getting to it. The starter motor provides a current path for the solenoid winding that pulls in the core. There is a second winding that holds it in once the starter begins spinning. The reason tapping works is that it may bring the brushes into contact with the armature. This usually only works a few times so it is a good indication that the starter needs to be rebuilt.

Heat soak - I have only seen this a couple of times and both were on big blocks in very hot weather. I suspect that the solenoid simply didn't create enough magnetic force to pull in because of the high temp, but I am not sure.


Jerry

I bet it's close to the flywheel........

99% of starter problems on those old Chevys is the Solenoid. Either the disc as mentioned before is corroded from arcing or the positive cable stud that touches the disc is worn to a minimum/no contact with the disc or the stud that connects to the starter strap is shot. There is a reason they sold rebuild kits for them, as it was common and easily fixed.

Alligator clips on your volt/ohm meter, record or remember the exact voltage at EACH accessible point, in logical succession from the battery clear down to the solenoid stud. Do not waste time taking voltages on the motor (fat) cables. You are checking the solenoid activation circuit only, where your problem is. You are looking for voltage drops at the access points, possibly as low as 3 tenths of a volt if the 'pull in' winding of the solenoid is weak.

Yes sir.
It seems to always be the solenoid.

Sounds like you got it all figured out. Go fix it...

Simple, not only did you bypass the switch and NSS you also bypassed that little disc in the solenoid and put battery power directly to the starter.

Did you check the ground and hit it with a hammer?

Try unplugging it and then plug it back in. If that doesn’t work cut the red wire, that always works.

Is Mom still paying the child support? LOL, Really loud.

For those with a short memory, or short tenure, referencing a classic joke thread from many years ago.
And, yes, I know it ain't funny to those in need of an explanation.

...................1st.....Check battery itself and the terminal connections on the battery. If all good then check connections to starter as well as wire from battery to the starter......Sounds like a short to me.....An electrical shop to trace the problem might save you from a fishing expedition.

Bill, you said it's a 69. Does it have a starter relay on the inner fender?

If so, that is where I would start my diagnostics. It is easy to get to, a likely culprit, cheap and easy to replace.

Grab a volt meter and have a helper hit the starter switch. Check for current coming into and out of the relay.

No power into the relay, continue troubleshooting toward the ignition switch.

Power into the relay, but no power out, easy fix.

Power out of the relay, trouble shoot your wiring to the solenoid. You already know the solenoid is good, it started with the remote starter switch.

And yes, the nuetral safety switch may well be your culprit. I have only dealt with manual trans, or else found the trouble to be the relay on my auto trans vehicles.

Good luck.

You ask for help, them ridicule those who try to offer help. Sweet!

It sounds like the starter and battery are good. That leaves the ignition switch, solenoid, or shifter safety switch.

It ain’t that hard.

Gee, this brings back "fond" memories of changing a starter in the family '78 Chevy during the summertime in Phoenix. The front suspension limited removing the starter to one vertical position through or by the a-arm. This was discovered after much trial and error.

Naturally, the starter and connections were covered in a thick combination of dirt and oil, and were hot, even in the early morning. All the work was by touch and feel, the car jacked up on jack stands, wooden blocks and a jack for safety. If I remember correctly, the two nuts on the small wire connections to the solenoid were different sizes. Reach up, feel.around, wipe greasy dirt off the connection and try to get a wrench on.

Once everything was was off and out, wash grease off of hands and arms with gojo. Clean the mating surfaces and wires as best as possible, then install the new starter. Hold it with one hand and install the bolts with the other. Then,getting those small solenoid wires and nuts on by feel. The shop manual discussed swimming the starter for the correct spacing with the flywheel. No way to do it. Just stick her in.

We had used cars for years, and it seems I was working on them just about every weekend. Ford starters were much easier than Chevys, Chevy water pumps much easier than Fords. Chevy also had that nice window in the distributor cap to adjust the points.

Didn't mind working on cars back then. Grew up helping my dad work on the family cars and his antique cars. Nowadays am grateful for the.relatively maintenance-free vehicles and let the dealer handle most issues.

Sorry about the rambling, your post brought back memories/nightmares!

Some great advice has been provided in this thread, follow it and you will get her fixed.

Leave the starter alone, all you have to do is drop the auto tranny out, and put in a manual tranny. That way you can coast start it. Always park on a hill!!
Sorry, hope you find the problem. Had a 1984 Corvette that had the heat soak problem. Drive it somewhere, shut it off , then wait 2 or 3 hours before it would start again.

I always carried a spare, ph uck I became the starter king when it came to pullIng a starter on the chevy’s. One hand holding other with a wrench. I remember one time I thought I positioned the starter just right to rest on my front driveline ph uck that thing slipped hit me in the head ph uck that hurt. Then I joined the Army as a light wheel mechanic guess what I got to use my skill as the starter king on them damn [bleep] starters on the hmmv. Ph ucking starters

Your problem is something vibrated loose between home and the dinner place.

Starter is somewhere next to the flywheel.

Maybe you have a fuel leak since after you asked and got a bunch of replies you shot flames out of the air intake.

when rehabing this, did the engine come out? if so, was the body ground from the bellhousing to the trans tunnel get reinstalled? if you didn't have the motor out, did the previous owner? that being said, i'm banking on the solenoid. used to replace them all the time. by the way, if the engine isn't stock, installing 6v battery cables is
usually a good idea. good luck!

The heat soak thing is usually due to a weak solenoid, a bunch of gunk in the starter &/or worn brushes.

Somebody also said, big block. But he worst heat related prob is Headers, freakin headers. They sound great, even closed, make confirmed power. But the sum bucks are always causing a problem or 2 or 5.

This^^

It's usually the solenoid. Same thing with the older Fords. Chevy makes it a bit harder since the solenoid is on the starter, the Fords had them mounted on the inside of the fender behind the battery. When they'd go out you could start the car by taking two screwdrivers and jumping the solenoid.

It's easy enough to trace down with a multimeter and a helper but to tell the truth I'd just go pay the $20 bucks for a new solenoid and replace it, it's most likely your problem.

Guys, relax. He’s got this. He has personally touched 75% of the nuts and bolts in this car. One things for certain, it must be in the 25% he hasn’t yet touched, because I bet the rest is perfect.

Two things:

1. I've no mechanical abilities at all, but I just wanted to say "hi" and say that I am glad to see you are well.

2. I immediately caught the Billy Bob Thornton quote from Tombstone. It's one of my favorite movies.

Take Care!