I was replacing three outlets in a room from ivory to white. Two outlets were done successfully.

When I took the face plate off the third outlet I saw that the ground wasn't hooked up. So when I replaced the outlet I went ahead and hooked the ground to the green screw. When I turned the power back on the fuse blew. I replaced the fuse and when I get to the last turn of screwing it in it flashes light and pops and blows.

So before I put in another fuse I removed the ground wire from the outlet since that was the only thing that changed and no blown fuse and everything works fine but I have no ground on that outlet.

After this with the power on I was going to push the outlet back in the metal box and when the screw touched the metal box it sparked but didn't blow the fuse so it is just hanging out of the box right now.

Any thoughts on the cause and fix. It is in a metal box. Two wires with two blacks on left side screws and two whites hooked to right side screws. How do I fix this so it has a proper ground?

Thanks in advance for all the help -tnscouter

The ground is not on just the ground

Sounds almost like you've got a defective outlet there. I'd try another one and see what happens.

BobBrown would you expound on this please. Thanks -tnscouter

Check for a ground fault —positive feeding through the ground. Do you have a mulitmeter? Is there continuity between the ground (bare) and the hot (black)?

Check the wire insulation for a cut, particularly where the romex's outer sheath was cut back. Is the insulation on the individual conductors compromised?

Any chance the wires or a wire is knicked,possibly connection on wires to tight and grounding

Your hot is touching either the box or the ground when you push it into the box. Electrical tape around the receptacle should help. Also make sure the wire insulation isn't damaged or stripped too long.

Disconnect the outlet before testing.

I plan on trying that but there must be a reason it wasn't hooked up originally. Thanks -tnscouter

It should have been hooked up originally.

I've checked and nothing touching in the box. Also I have electrical tape wrapped around the outlet. I always do that because I think it helps and it let's me know that I worked on it .

That's my thought. So I think the problem has always been there and I just found it. Thanks -tnscouter

the previous owner is telling you something. you need a multimeter.

We need an electrical section here

Good advice here but it could be anywhere between the outlet and the breaker panel (nail or screw through a wire for example)

Again, you need to carefully inspect the insulation of the individual conductors. Pay particular attention to where they enter the box.

Unfortunately you are correct but I'm hoping it is something closer to the box. Thanks for your comments. -tnscouter

I assumed the other outlets replaced by TN were on the same circuit as this last one. If they are then the issue is most likely in last box and appeared when he disturbed the orientation of the wiring as it laid in the box.

If this is a separate circuit, and a home run, you're right, it could be anywhere in the run.

If the electric box is metal and you have a screw in clamp, the cable is probably pinched too tight. If you have a voltage detector, stick one probe in the long left side slot of receptacle and the other probe in the round ground probe with the receptacle screwed to the box. If you detect 120 volts, the box is of hot or ungrounded potential. Not good. Remove fuse, loosen clamp inside box and try to pull more cable into box, if not possible, cut plastic from a milk carton or some other insulator and wrap around cable under clamp. leave clamp loose and hook ground back up. Do the check with a good receptacle first so you will know what voltage readings you are looking for. When you screw the ground to the receptacle and screw receptacle to the box, you are creating a short circuit from ground wire to the energized box because of the shorted hot or ungrounded potential resulting from the nicked wire under the clamp.

TN,
Is this outlet on the same circuit as the others you replaced, or is it a separate circuit. If it's a separate circuit, is it the only outlet/device/fixture on that circuit?

kingston: Thank you for your help. I am going to do a deep dive on this tomorrow morning and will check the wires thoroughly. Unfortunately this is really old construction. So the metal boxes are a half inch behind the sheetrock and very small. Plus there is almost no slack in the wire.

Same circuit as the other outlets in the room plus a few more in other rooms. I'm assuming this since they were all dead when the fuse blew.
Thanks -tnscouter

Is the bare ground wound around the outer sheath and positioned in the box's clamp.

Do you have fuses or breakers? I saw you mention fuses.

Is the outer sheath black?

When I worked on this outlet I had the power off to the whole house. I had no idea which fuse controlled this and they aren't labled so this was easiest way.

All I did was pull the existing outlet forward. Cut off the 4 wires from the back of the outlet since it was a stab in. Stripped the wire the exact length and hooked them to the appropriate screws. There is no exposed wire on the screws because I'm very detailed with that. I then pulled the ground from the back of the box where it had been shoved, made a loop and hooked it to the ground. Wrapped the outlet with tape and reinstalled. Gave it power and the fuse blew.

The problem is almost surely in that last box, either where the wire intersects/enters the box/clamp or there's a flaw in the insulation between the clamp and the receptacle.

Someone in the past left that ground wire unconnected because of the same problem.

So this is likely what is wrong.......
I'm assuming that since you have 2 blacks, 2 whites, you also have 2 ground wires hooked to that outlet. This is called daisy chaining from one outlet to the next.

Do you have more outlets downstrem of this problem one??? If so, Somewhere downstream of this outlet there is a short between the black and the ground wire, leaving it open keeps it from going to ground to you main panel. This short could be inside another box, perhaps the black wire touching a metal box or it could be inside the wall where someone drove a nail or screw through the black and ground and shorted them together. Best find it.

This is the most likely explanation. A black wire is touching the metal box somehow (probably at the clamp) and the box is hot. You wouldn't notice with a plastic cover on the outlet, but with the ground connected and the outlet screwed to the box, you have a direct short to ground.

Jerry

Good point . Plus now, I see it’s “old” house so it could have originally been non ground wire type of system. Apparently, it now has a bare ground and could be grounded somewhere else beside through the panel. I’m not that familiar with retrofitting a ground wire setup into an old house . (That predates modern electrical system )

The outer sheath is black. I have fuses. The ground wire is inside the black sheath, is bare, and looped around the screw of the clamp with a piece soldered on that goes to the green ground screw.
Thanks -tnscouter

This is a pic of the outlet. I will loosen the clamp and check everything in the morning. Our TV is on this circuit and is being used so I have to wait awhile.

Thank you everyone for your suggestions. I will keep this updated.

Thanks -tnscouter

If the ground wire blows a fuse when it’s attached then metal box is hot and you could get zapped if you don’t fix it (the guy’s below are right).

Get a voltage detector pen from Home Depot and leave the ground off, but touch it to the metal outlet box - it will tell you it’s hot.
I mean this one - https://www.kleintools.com/catalog/electrical-testers/non-contact-voltage-tester-pen-50-1000-volts

If it were me I would solve if it’s the outlet or the wiring in the conduit first - by using the voltage detection pen with the outlet removed (and wires capped), if you don’t have the pen, then touch the ground wire to the metal box... if that blows a fuse you have a short between the hot side has (black wire), and the conduit itself...

If that’s the case fix it - it’s dangerous ...

Depending on if it’s a metal box in a wall, or in the basement the fix is different... let me know and I’ll tell you how to tackle it the way I’ve found best.




So - yep what they said with a way to check it.

Disregard

I just saw the picture you posted.

the ground is already touching the box so if it’s not blowing a fuse while the outlet is disconnected, and the wires are capped the box is not hot...

That would mean - when you push the outlet in the ground wires are making contact with the hot side of the outlet.
I push the ground wires to the back and down with the ground wire pointing out the bottom of the box, and attach it last so that the ground wires move the least.


The other thing I’ve run into is that there is a cut in the black wires, and when I put the outlet in the ground wire makes contact with that cut.. and pop.. there goes the breaker...

So it’s one of those 2.. or of course you have a bad outlet... (rare)

I just saw the box is grounded. See what you have between everything when you have it all hooked up with the ground off the outlet.

Should be line Voltage from:
Hot to ground
Hot to neutral
Hot to box (if box is grounded)

No voltage from
Neutral to ground
Neutral to box
Ground to box

With breaker off/fuse out:
Should be Continuity from
Box to ground (assuming box grounded)
Neutral to box (assuming box grounded)
Neutral to ground

No continuity from
Box to hot
Hot to ground
Hot to neutral

BTW you also need outlet spacers given your box is sunk back behind the dry wall.

Here is what they are -
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Ideal-Spacers-25-Pack-172451L/202937111

Here is how to use them
https://youtu.be/RYGkKRKUcws

Basically they go on the mounting screw behind the outlet and support the outlet against the box so the outlet can be aligned with the wall...

I rehab ALOT of elec. stuff - this is one they should tell folks, but don’t.

Spotshooter: I'm already good on the spacers. Replaced a few outlets in this house already and I like them perfect. Also used the voltage detector pen. Neither the ground nor the box are hot but the entire outlet is. The metal ears, all four slots and both sides. I took the cover off of one of the others I replaced and only the small slots and black side lit up.

Any thoughts?

That is a bad outlet 1000%

If you are putting the hot wire on and the mounting ears light up it’s got an internal short...

If there was a short between hot and neutral it would have blown a fuse straight way when you contented those (hot and neutral) to the outlet so it’s only the hot side that’s shorted to ground.

I would break it open and look for a mechanical short - they only cost a few bucks, and you will have to replace it anyway.

This^^^^^

IF Romex - it's possible there is a nail driven between the black and bare wires - somewhere in that run - or, more probably, the next.
Do down-line outlets show a ground connection?

I do believe the OP should have been a plumber, how is your Fire Insurance?

101 simple stuff:

Black wire = HOT

White wire = Z-LEG........GROUNDED!

Green/bare wire = GROUNDED.........same as white wire.

Check your receptacle to assure you have your black wire connections on the proper side.

On ALL of your previously installed receptacles.

Receptacles designate the white wire connection......at least.

I highly doubt it is a defective outlet. It's possible, but not likely. It you have a volt meter, you should be able to test it with the ohm selection on the meter. First you want to pull the fuse to take power off the outlet. Next, test your meter by selecting the ohm setting. Then touch your leads together. Your meter should read 0 ohms or at least very close to 0. Then disconnect all the wires on the outlet and then with your meter on the ohm setting, read between the ground lug and the gold(hot) lug of the outlet. Your meter should show open, or infinity. If it shows any resistance, then your outlet would be defective.

If the outlet, tests good, (Also with the fuse pulled) then place your meter leads between the black(what should be your hot lead) and the ground wire. This should also show open. Keep in mind, you should also have everything unplugged from every outlet on that circuit to keep from getting any resistance readings from anything that might be plugged in. If your meter shows 0 or a low resistance, you have a short somewhere down stream from this outlet. You then need to go to each outlet, and pull all the outlets from the boxes. You can do this one at a time until your short goes away.

As someone else mentioned, It could be a nail that pierced the romex. That could be hard to find, but you should be able narrow it down between outlets by disconnecting the wires on all the outlets one at a time and checking for resistance between the hot leads and ground as you go. Once again, be sure to have the fuse pulled for that circuit as you are doing the resistance check.

Like others have said, it is likely the hot wire or screw, or possibly old broken insulation on a hot wire that is touching the side of a box. You can one at a time, pull all the outlets on out of the boxes with the wires still attached and see if your problem goes away.

I hope I haven't been too confusing. Good luck.

Guys -

1) he put up a picture of the outlet.. it’s standard house wiring (bare ground wire vs. green)

2). He tested and found the ears of the outlet are hot (shorted to the black wires)... So it is the outlet that is bad.

Maybe I didn't read his post good enough. Did he test for voltage on the ears with the ground wire connected, or disconnected. If he did it with the ground connected, the ears would be hot if there is a short between the ground wire and hot wire down stream from the outlet. My apologies if I am miss reading his post.

Also by relooking at the picture he posted, it doesn't look like he has anything but a voltage ticker and outlet tester, so some of my advice would not be much help unless he were to go buy a cheap voltmeter with an ohm setting.

^^^^ This

Coincidence that the ground wire was not connected to the old outlet. If it was connected to the box and the old outlet screwed to the box, then it was still safe, but not done right.

OP: If you don't have another outlet, put the original back in there and hook up the ground wire.



Jerry

Tag for resolution. Just like a good movie. On edge of my seat about the conclusion.

The box looks grounded in the picture with the bare wire under a screw clamp, if bad receptacle was shorted to mounting tabs of receptacle, why did it not blow the fuse when he unhooked the ground from the receptacle and mounted it back in the box? The shorted mounting bracket of the receptacle would of still been screwed to the grounded metal box. Or did I miss something along the way, I have in the past.

One thing I have seen with these old style boxes is you can overtighten the clamp and cause a short between blk/grd. not always.

What happens when you connect the 2 blks,2 whts w/o the recepticle in place,nut the wires.See if it trips ,then try it with the wires seperated,nutted of for safety,,someone mentioned it may be down the circut.

I have enough trouble, trouble shooting when it is in front of me!

We know bud. We know

Again, we need an electrical section with all the resident experts here ; )

I don't know if an electrical section would get enough use but an electrical/plumbing section certainly would.

This.

That allows isolation.

Is it tripping with no wires connected?

If not, tie wires together. Does it trip?

If not, add a new receptacle, don’t screw it in, does it trip?

Process of elimination. Is it in the incoming wire? The outgoing wire? Or the receptacle?

Yes. Here’s the sticky


-chit flows down hill
-payday is every other Friday
-the boss is a sumbiytch

Looks like we had it figured early.

I wanted to follow up with my electrical problem. I wasn't able to work on it until this evening. With the power off, I loosened the clamp and inspected the wires. Here is the culprit:



This break was on the downstream hot wire (not sure what to call it)

I was able to pull just enough slack to restrip the wire. Hooked it all back up with attached ground and everything works great. I'm not sure why the ground wire wasn't attached originally but all checks out well now.

Thanks everyone for your helpful responses.
- tnscouter

Good

"I wanted to follow up with my electrical problem. I wasn't able to work on it until this evening. With the power off, I loosened the clamp and inspected the wires. Here is the culprit:

[Linked Image]

This break was on the downstream hot wire (not sure what to call it)

I was able to pull just enough slack to restrip the wire. Hooked it all back up with attached ground and everything works great. I'm not sure why the ground wire wasn't attached originally but all checks out well now.

Thanks everyone for your helpful responses.
- tnscouter"



Didn't really see how it could have been anything else. Glad you got it fixed.- Chuck.

kingston: Thank you for taking your time to help me. I really appreciate it. -tnscouter

ChuckKY: Thank you too for taking your time to help me . I really appreciate it. -tnscouter