I'd much rather be "down here", wishing I was "up there", than "up there", wishing I was "down here"....

That's tax dollars well spent! Awesome

Long time back I mixed it up with a diverse collection of US military pilots and of course there were a few tales shared. One had to do with night carrier ops with emphasis on pitching decks during overcast skies and launching.

Uh, no thanks. I would much prefer blacked out night extractions in mountains with the PZ defined by tracers.

How many takeoffs and landing can a carrier based aircrafts landing gear take before it has to be swapped out?

BTDT! I’ve seen it like that in the North Atlantic, the North Pacific and in the IO west of Perth. Daytime can get your attention; night with a pitching deck is where you earn your flight pay. A low ceiling puts the icing on the cake. Seeing the screws coming out of the water is a bit of a distraction too.
I tell our Student Naval Aviators that night time around the boat separates the men from the boys. 😳

Life of the airframe - Tailhooks (or at least the Prowlers hook point) was good for 100 traps and swapped.

I'd pay good money to go out and get some more day traps and there is not enough money available for me to go back out on a no moon night with a pitching deck.

I can't answer that question from memory with any certitude. All I can tell you is they are inspected at specific intervals and/or when an unusually hard landing occurs. But even all of that is no guarantee. On my 2001 War Cruise on JFK, we had a Tomcat's nose gear get ripped off on the catapult shot causing the aircraft to impact the water (not enough end speed, plus the nose was pitched down). Crew ejected, back seater made it but the pilot did not.

Making the transition between up there and down here can be a bitch sometimes.

My best friend in high school joined the navy when we graduated. He did 2 tours of Nam on a carrier as a catapult maintenance specialist. He had a few stories to tell.
He about broke my heart. In the late 60's, Honda had just come out with the 1st Gold Wing, the 750. He told me that he could get me one in Japan while on R&R for 1/2 price and bring it home on the carrier. I'd just have to pick it up in San Diego. I was a poor broke college student so I had to decline. I REALLY wanted one of those.

In my 25 years in the USN I spent 3 of them on the USS Abraham Lincoln CVN-72. I am a plankowner of that ship. Carriers are interesting duty but as a non-aviation rate I only did the one. Spent the rest of my time on gators, unreppers and a destroyer.

The wing spar has generally been the limiting factor because ultimately, the stress of the landing is imposed on it. Decades ago the A-6’s ran into a problem with the wing spars aging out. They went through a wing spar upgrade/strengthening program to get more service life until more Hornets could come on line.

Similarly, the F-4S’s we flew off the Midway got a reinforcing “strap” on the bottom of the wing. Unfortunately the added weight took away some of the fuel we could land with and remain within max landing weight. That meant at night if you boltered (missed the wires) you went right up to the tanker to get enough fuel for another shot at it.

I have made two landings in a blacked-out airplane to a totally blacked out airfield, no moon and under ground fire. That was "interesting" but I was only at 100 knots and the runway wasn't moving. I most heartily tip my flight cap to naval aviators.

Rocky, we (S3 Viking) came aboard ~ 112-115kts...

We were likely aboard at the same time. I did the shakedown cruise with VAQ-141 and CVW-8.

Stupid questions.


How much does weather affect readiness. Compared to land based?

Can you launch when you couldnt land?

If so, if necessary, could tankers accompany the mission including
far enough to allow the planes to reach a land based field?

And is that something that might/does happen.

I'm sure, "It depends", is going to be a big part of the answers.

Balls of steel.

BTDT way too many times. Here are a couple of videos from fellow E-2 bubbas. It was an easy airplane to fly once airborne but was a bit challenging/cumbersome landing on the boat.



This one from my old squadron.

Amazes me how much they saw on the controls.
That one guy, working the yoke and throttle, looks like his hands are pedaling a bike.
Not criticizing, hell I have never ridden in a plane, just an observation.


Everyone focuses on the fighters, but is it actually harder or more dangerous in the
lower performance aircraft?

What is he doing with his left thumb on the wheel? Radio or trim?

What are they going to replace them with?

Amazing they can do that.

About 40 years ago someone told me they lost about 2 planes per carrier in peacetime, hitting the fantail or something. I don't know if that was true or not. Does anyone know how many they lose now?

It still happens but not as often as in the past; it’s always ugly.

Trim. The E2 does not have counter rotating props and was very over powered. Whenever you added power, the nose would go up and right, the opposite when you reduce power. You had to use both feet, both hands and your thumb to keep everything smooth.

Riding bike is about right!

It is not any easier or harder, just different. The fighters are faster and more maneuverable. We were about 25mph slower but our roll rate was a lot slower too. We also had another pilot sitting next to us to help with checklists and radio calls.

That right there is why Air Force pilots can never claim to be as as good as Naval Aviators ! If you watch the full version of the video the wing skipper personally takes up a tanker and lands last. He sticks the landing like a boss !

My uncle was aviation fueling crew on the Lexington and the Midway in Pensacola. He said plenty of the aviators pissed themselves on their first landing. I imagine the first landing is unnerving !

Dave, I believe the piloting skills are about equal between Navy and AF. Carrier ops are indeed a lot harder, but most rated military pilots could perform about the same, given the same training. That does not diminish the level of difficulty one bit, mind you. It's just that all military airplane drivers are pretty damn good. The weeding out process insures that. If you make it through training and pin on wings, you are the 1% of the 1%.

That's accurate, btw. About 1% of the population is military, and only about 1% of those become pilots.

This !!

You know what's crazy?

When military pilots get out....they normally are not qualified to fly firefighting missions.

Dont have enough time.

Just like most combat medics cant work as civilian EMTS or Paramedics until certification is granted.

Helicopter pilots either. The need a certain number of hours flying solo and firefighting plus a few other quals that aren't military missions. 4000+ hours to apply at my old department.

My family bleeds Navy blue Naval aviators are better !!!

Years ago when I was an instructor in the F-4 RAG training newly winged Naval Aviators in the fighter mission we had an Air Force exchange crew, a major pilot and a captain WSO. There was always the the good natured back and forth you get between services but both were good guys to have in the ready room and very professional. After they had been there a while, the CO asked them if they wanted to go to the boat. Both said “sure”.

They went through a full carrier qualification work-up with all the “bouncing” just like a RAG student would. When it came time to go to the boat they did very well during their day traps. After they got the required day traps, the CO asked them if they wanted to go at night. Their answer.......”No thanks Skipper; daytime was good enough for us”.

As an aside, in the F-4 there was a nose gear extension system to get a good attitude off the cat and you held full back stick during the cat shot as well. Both were designed to get the jet to rotate at the end of the cat. Then you had to relax the back stick “just a bit” 😀 to keep from over-rotating. Our squadron rep up in the tower got a photo of the Major’s first cat shot when he was just a teeny bit too late relaxing the back stick. Their attitude was high enough that you could see both their helmets in the photo. We did some trig and figured it was about 45-50 degrees up. You can bet we never let them live that one down 😀

You realize what that tale of the night trap offer proves, don't you? That AF pilots are as skilled as Naval guys - but have MUCH better judgment.

You may have something there Rocky 😀. We have a couple of Air Force and Air Guard guys that work with us in the simulator building and I’ve shown them what it looks like at night. The simulator is VERY realistic in the visual appearance and it still makes my palms sweat. They’ve all said, “that’s crazy!”
The night traps just make you appreciate how much easier it is during the day. 😳

So at the end of part 2, there is no CAP over the carrier?

CAP is not always airborne. If in an area where there is a real threat, there will probably be other aircraft from another carrier to provide CAP.

In ‘86 while things were leading up to the attack on Libya, there were three carriers involved. Our “fly day” went from noon to 0400 the following morning. We were flying three times a day, with two at night. When we weren’t flying the other carriers were. Even with that, our squadron had two crews in aircraft spotted on the catapult ready to go, two more crews suited up in the ready room ready to go too and two other crews standing by. Our sister squadron was doing the same. It was planning, fly, eat or sleep and not a whole lot of sleep. I was “Ops O” and felt lucky if I got four hours sleep.

I think it boils down to being a product of your training no matter what service branch..99 % of our air time was dusk to dawn because we didn't know anything different..Our crew was constantly on frequency with RO's on the ground requesting vectors/headings for 0-dark 30 engagements..

SOP's ? More than often not applicable, after awhile it's a gut feeling since most likely it mirrored another fight...

I'll take landing at 80 kn on a mostly lit 10K runway over a night carrier trap anytime just can't imagine any of you guys had fingernails !

Frigging Kenny Loggins ruins it for me every time I watch one of these types of videos.

Naw...they’re just pu$$ies. 😮😁

Just kidding. We make a good team. 😀