Right or privilege?


Weigh in folks.




Right.

The answer can easily be found in this document:
https://www.archives.gov/founding-docs/constitution-transcript

I don't think I have a right to anyone's goods or service.

I do think I have a right to access a free market place which we currently do not have for healthcare.

Do you think you're fooling anyone into thinking that you're "one of us"?

Hope my tax dollars didn't pay for your lobotomy.

Thank you

I am one of "us" just because I don't fall in line with the usual 100 loud mouths here means nothing.

What is your definition of a right? I guarantee it is different than ours.

I dont think people who haven’t worked have a right to any kind of free healthcare

C'mon man!

He is votin' for Trump!

Or the right to vote.
Especially for their free schit for life crap thru the scumball Liberal Socialist Democrats who promise it.

Right you are. He's trolling up to the final moment/


Ima
Sorry
Ratbastard
Operattive

He's been on my ignore for months. Only see when people quote. He's an active little Soros agent these days, Like how he's been benignly throwing our these Leftist topics as bait? Don't take it. He will leave as soon as his paroxymal death spasms subside after Nov 3. Kinda like a cockroach sprayed with RAID.

Unfortunately, he is one of many sockpuppets of the RobJordan/JeffObama mould.

That’s a bunch of malarkey!

What about the handicapped or other exceptions?

Now Jeff, kind of angry tonight again I see.

If healthcare is a right, would food not be also?
Housing? Clothing? All necessary to sustain health and ultimately life?

The idea that you are “owed” anything from someone else is pathetic and defeatist.

What about the handicapped or other exceptions?



So Renegade you don't think all citizens of legal age and meeting the other criteria should have the right to vote?

ISRO, did you read through that document I linked to and find your answer?

I absolutely despise weakness, and this world is seemingly filled with it. It should be cut out and destroyed like the cancer it is.

Oh, and any coincidence that Maser is his only friend? Same Maser who bragged that despite getting banned he frequented the site under different names. Hmm.

The one saving grace around here is:


*** You are ignoring this user ***
Toggle the display of this post

I gave you my answer, the document may contain your answer.

Yes?

Point 1- in the name of civility, society should, at the very least, help those who lack the ability to help themselves. The elderly, sick or handicapped. This should be done on a personal level. Charity should not be a function of govt.

Point 2- the founders never intended for the parasites of society to have a say in its function. Only those who contributed to it.
Would you pick up a hitchhiker and give him full say in which direction you traveled?

On what basis did you arrive at your answer? Was it based on that document?

Just like groceries, guns, and housing. You have a right to that which you can pay for.

Are you going to answer?

So, if you're a tax payer then would you be eligible?

Rights are protected by the Constitution, not granted. Exactly where do you think the right to health care originates? I earned mine as part of the compensation for my labor.

“Free Country” doesn’t mean everything you want or even need is free. You’re free to go out and earn those things. If you’re unable to do that, others are free to provide them to you if they like, but you’re not free to demand that from anyone, or everyone.

On second thought, you are free to demand that, and they’re free to tell you to fugg off.

I have a real novel idea. Let's use the Constitution as a basis for operation of a limited federal government, and then, are you ready for this, have the individual states run things their own way for everything else which is not inconsistent with the Constitution. Man, wouldn't that be great?

That’s just crazy talk!

It's almost like this scenario was anticipated... maybe in the 10th Amendment? Weird/

My rights to free speech, religion, self defense, etc. do not require anything of anyone else. If a doctor can be compelled against his will to provide service, then his rights have been violated. Health care is a privilege.

ISRO believes he understands the thought process behind the blueprint this country was founded. Unfortunately, like most topics he expounds upon, he’s willfully ignorant.

Not Rene, obviously. IMHO each citizen who has an actual positive net income, meaning they pay more in taxes each year than they take in tax credits and welfare and medicaid should have a right to vote.

You have the right to healthcare,,you do not have the right to take someone hard earned wages to pay for your health care.

If healthcare is a right, would food not be also?
Housing? Clothing? All necessary to sustain health and ultimately life?

The idea that you are “owed” anything from someone else is pathetic and defeatist. [/quote]

That where I’m at.

You see my friend it was an opinion, conversations sometimes contain an exchange of opinions.

I still like ya you know.

Absolutely not a right.

A 'right' is never something that somebody else has to pay for, for it to be provided.

Rights such as outlined in the Bill of Rights do not incur a tax cost on anyone for you to have them.

You still haven’t answered... if health care is a right, the right to life.... would not food, housing, clothing also rise to the same importance?
Do you believe it’s a function of govt (the elected representatives of the collective tax payers) to provide for its citizens? Or is it’s function to insure that the opportunity to provide for yourself is always available?

We already somewhat are with 68 million on medicaid, roughly only about 28 million more without some type of health coverage.

Does the whole improve when you lift up the bottom?

It's not a privilege either.

Health care is a service, plain and simple. If one cannot afford it, or has no earned entitlement to it, there is already Medicaid, and other ways it can be covered on taxpayer dime, or by charitable organizations.

Obamacare is a huge ripoff. It's extortion. But "you can keep your doctor", and "your premiums will go down".

Is it the intended function of govt? When you have the ability to provide for yourself but choose not to, is it my responsibility to provide for you? Especially unwillingly at the threat of incarceration?

I think it’s been obvious since it’s inception that “Obamacare” was never intended to work. They assumed Hillary would win and be able to usher in single payer, but Trump threw a wrench in their plans.

Obamacare was designed to be centralized medicine controlled by centralized government

Listen,

I
Should
Run
Off

When the total economic system collapses from the value of the currency imploding from free loafing communists like you, where will the money to pay for the free things you think you have a right to come from?

That’s right. You communist’s “free” things will cease to be, and that is when you will have to learn how to work in order to barter for your needs, because in times like that, you won’t be getting a FREE ride or for decades afterwards once people are educated again in how a free society is supposed to be properly run.

You have the same rights the Pilgrims had: work to survive and live in true freedom, nothing more and nothing less, but people like you almost made them all die the first Winter.

ISRO

Inept school resource officer?

India space fan?

Gamer?

Or some other twat?

No, the ACA was Cloward Piven on steroids, to bankrupt the whole economy, and destroy the country.

Couldn't have said it better...Bravo!

LOL yeah right. Liberal arrogance at it's best. These pseudo intellectuals believe they're 10 times smarter than they really are. They've been conditioned to think that they are enlightened and morally superior by a bunch of idiots in academia, Hollywood and the media. And the rest of us are too stupid to know what's best for us so they feel the need to shove their bullschit ideas down our throats, and then thank them for saving us from ourselves with their brilliance.

You have the right to buy all the healthcare you can afford.....

All the stand alone hospitals folded and were taken over by a healthcare network. The doctors dumped their private practice and went to work for the healthcare network. I believe the goal was single payer, one healthcare network for each state and a national medical record database.

The real sham is that no one in the country is denied healthcare and anyone who says otherwise is a fugging liar. If you're having a heart attack and get taken to the ER and don't have insurance, they don't roll you out to the ally to die. You get the same treatment anyone else would get. Then you make arrangements with the hospital to set up a payment plan to pay what you can.

It cost me about $10,000 a year for the right to use a million dollars worth.

Best reply of the thread.

I would add some nuance to it, which others have touched on. We are a great nation and advanced society that has a certain moral and ethical compass that means there will be extenuating circumstances.

The cost of a basic safety net for those truly in need is part of the cost of being a free, morally right, just country.

Unfortunately, liberalism has run amuck and those lines were obliterated long ago and now it is a train wreck.

Ok. Prove it with the language contained within the constitution.
Start by reading the 10th amendment.

Where do you draw the line on free services? Can I have free auto repair? How about lawn service? The whole thought is stupid. Do I get a free hooker?

You remind me of the Coffee Talk lady:

Correct, but you didn't finish, and describe the final result, which is:

There no longer is a free market at that point, and so the Industrial Medical Complex, along with the insurance industry, and the monopolized networks would be free to continue raising the costs (Cloward Piven Plan) to overload the whole economic system and collapse it, just like they proved can be done when they bankrupted the state of NY by increasing the social programs until it all folded over onto itself. That was at a state level, instead of the national level.

Beyond the Constitution...I have the human right to NOT contribute to ISRO's health care, I have the human right to NOT contribute to the murder of the unborn. And now, if I insist upon my right, i.e. non-payment of my taxes, my property shall be forfeit, and likely I shall be imprisoned. ISRO's socialist utopia.

Except the sixth amendment.

This is one stupid mutherfugker, Jake.

So as your example you're referencing something written in 1791?


Then would it be ok for California to offer free health care and not Texas?

Compared to the intellect of Jake and yourself then, absolutely.

How would California pay for this? It looks like their liberal policies have already proven to be unsustainable?

https://www.usdebtclock.org/state-debt-clocks/state-of-california-debt-clock.html

Did you ever answer why food, housing and clothing aren’t on your list of demands?
Are the looters in Philadelphia simply exercising their “right” to have a flat screen T.V. And new sneakers, or are they common thieves.
your opinion?

Please quote this "list of demands" you speak of.

Give me a moment and I'll look and see what clause it is mentioned in, in the U.S. Constitution.

I didn't read the whole thread so maybe someone already pointed this out but dickweed here has proposed a classic false dilemma. It's not an either/or situation, and health care is neither.

It's a service that you pay for.

And being a citizen has nothing to do with it.

Just GTFO, you stupid fugk.

Nobody wants to debate you. We just want to stab you in your eye socket.

Are you not advocating for free health care, declaring it as a right?
When that “right” has to be paid for by someone else, against their will, your right becomes their demand.

Should health care only be for those with the means to pay for it then?

That's ridiculous. The looters obviously consider it a privilege to steal flat screen TVs and sneakers.

Working and paying for stuff is for suckers and losers.

That would depend on why the person has no means to pay. If they're able-bodied they should pay for the services they want or need.

If I work my ass off and save enough money to buy a nice house, should some lazy bastard with no job living in his mom's basement be given a house like mine?

Here's a clue for you: No.

Why is health care different?

If able-bodied people can sit on their ass and get free health care, why should they work and pay for it?

Funny thing about the rights guaranteed to us by the constitution/bill of rights. None of those rights were a service, and none had to be subsidized by the fruits of someone else’s labor.
Freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of the press, freedom to arm and protect yourself from ALL enemies....
When did “rights” go from being guaranteed freedoms and defined liberty designed to free us from govt oppression to being services one could provide for themselves but choose not too?

Selfishness, greed and entitlement. The embodiment of liberalism and socialism.

Neither a right nor a privileged.

This!
The goal of the "health care is a right" argument is to allow the state to mandate care and fix treatments and prices in the guise of allowing equal access. However, state control eliminates choice and encourages state-ponsored medical conglomerates because smaller, independent businesses are hard to regulate. So...ultimately it deprives those providing and recieving health care of life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.

They get paid by the click count.

Spoken like a true socialist...

That's why we have national forests filled with wolves and coyotes

Damn, you Cubans are hard core.

Ah, the errors of your thinking.....
First, The Constitution, including the first 10 amendments, was ratified in 1788, not 1791.
Second, it does not matter when it was written, it's the Constitution and is still in full force and effect.
Are you trying to say that because it was written so long ago that it no longer is valid? Or are you trying to say that because it's so old you get to pick and choose what parts should apply today? Surely even you can't be that stupid.
If you don't like what it says, there is an amendment process that can be used to change it. Barring that, what it says is the law of the land.
Third, yes it would be ok for California to offer "free" healthcare and not Texas. It's something that is left up to the people in each state.
If you will actually read the tenth amendment you will see that the Federal government is constrained to have ONLY those powers that are SPECIFICALLY granted to it by the Constitution. ALL others powers, not denied to the states, are the powers of the states and/or the people.
Under the Constitution, the states have far broader powers than the federal government.

That's because we've seen the likes of him and what happens..

I meant that in a good way, by the way.

Anyone who claims to be conservative would already know there is no such thing as free healthcare, there are always costs associated that someone has to pay.




A Trump supporter throwing out these little class warfare gems???

It’s not a right, just ask an insurance company. It’s a service and the insurance company decides what it’s worth to them and you decide what it’s worth to you.

The “right” part is democrat pandering, as always.

It can't be classified as a right, as the word "right" was understood by our Founders, because to make it universally available for free would require the creation of a positive obligation on the part of someone else. A right, as we Americans have traditionally understood it, is something merely that would be wrong (morally speaking) to prevent or interfere with. So it's a right in that sense, i.e., it would be morally wrong to prevent or interfere with someone seeking to contract with a doctor, or an insurance company, for medial services. But that doesn't imply that anyone else is bound to provide it to you for free or to pay your bill.

What other rights have a direct cost and profit margin?

I know....

I can think of nothing more fitting, then to see you end up with .govie insurance. That would be fuqin classic.

You're probably expecting us to pay for that associates degree from your shiddy community college too.

Health care is no more a right than eating is a right.

1. Go walk down the streets of Philadelphia
2. Get a job
3. Pay your own rent
4. Stop sucking your mommy's teet

He just did, moron.

Watched my Section 8 tenants get free healthcare like that for years. Indeed, one conventional tenant just got out of the hospital on a free ride a couple days ago.

You're a douchebag if you really think it is a right. But I will play along, troll. Where is it stated or codified that health care is a right?

Government does not belong in the health care business.

Abso-fuggin-lutely

California did pass universal health care, then almost immediately announced they couldn’t pay for it, surprise surprise.

Government cannot give anyone anything without taking the money from someone else, unless you count the Chiccoms who own businesses and employ slave labor. I suppose if you’re okay with free health care paid for with slave labor, it’s a great idea. In reality, BTW, many Chinese have insurance, but have to pay up-front, as they go, for care, and file claims to get their money back. If you’re in the hospital and the money runs out, you’re out on your ass.

Actually, demanding free health care paid for by tax dollars taken at gunpoint from others is pretty much the same thing.

There is no right to health insurance! Nothings free in this world. Even the blacks have to pay for their freebies with drugs and crime. Everything comes with a price. Get real and if you really need Free health insurance there is always Canada.lol. Edk

Canadians pay in taxes.

Hes fooled no one on here. pathetic

We may not have a right to it, but it should be a system that is subject to market forces with the consumer being fully aware of all costs and allowed to make a choice to control those costs.

Instead we have a system that is akin to you walking into a grocery store that has no prices listed. After your done shopping, 30- 60 days later you get the bill that then shows you've bought items that have been marked up 1000%, when a perfectly acceptable alternate was available at one tenth the cost. In addition, the supplier can decide to increase prices at any time and for any reason.

We have a healthcare system that's broken. The average monthly cost for subsidized employer based health insurance for a family of 4 is in excess of $1700/month with ever increasing deductibles. How many families can truly support that if your employer isn't subsidizing it?

When I was growing up, hospitals were always austere places that seemed to be built based on function. Every hospital today is surrounded by cranes and construction as they add on and build suites for medical specialties. In addition, our pharmaceutical companies can raise prices as needed to drive profits and buy up competitors to reduce competition and protect their market share.

Maybe healthcare needs to be looked at as a service, such as our gas, water , telephone and electricity and be regulated accordingly so the market forces can be at play.

Got the single payer out of the VA.....and the VA improved.

As a Canadian with socialized healthcare I pay in total taxes (that's everything Federal, Provincial, municipal and goods and services) ~ 50% on $100 000 - 125 000 a year.

So, I spoke to a federal Gov't employee (retired) from St Louis while on vacation in Ireland. His income is similar to mine, I ask how much of the dollar earned is yours to keep, he says ~ 50%. I ask what do you get for your 50%?

Turns out about the same, excluding health care which is an out of pocket expense. These out of pocket expenses can be huge if one has cancer treatments or other major illness. Enough to break many families or cause those that can afford it to live under their means (no money for education) in anticipation of a major medical expense. This is living in fear.

Our system can be much improved, as wait times for non critical health issues can take time, may have to wait 6 months for a knee replacement. Critical issues are dealt with right now, a friends mother had a heart attack, they live in a rural area 500 miles from the best care. The air ambulance was summoned and flown the 500 miles, time of the heart event to hospital was 3 hours and under medical care /observation all that time. Nothing out of pocket, best care available, positive outcome.

I do not mind paying for another's misfortune as we are a rich enough country to cover the costs and live well.

To the rabid among us, one poster suggested there is 100 on this site, I vote center right, own too many rifles and handguns, hunt the best land in North America, worked union , no religion, and do not live in fear of future health issues and its attendant financial ruin.

It’s a right, if you are a socialist, someone who thinks you should get most benefits for “free”, for those who don’t think they can’t make a good living on their own merits and hard work.

Socialists don’t get that what they want for free, took capitalism to create.

Half of both our wages goes to taxes and user fees, just that I get more benefit than you.

Nothing is free, we earn 50 cent dollars so demand some return on that investment!

You are such an ignorant clown.

Why ignore the challenge? Prove it is a right, under the Constitution, if you can.
If not, SHUT THE FUQ UP! Then GFY!

Denied health care no. But the level of care given is a sliding scale I’ve experienced first hand. Had my first child on Medicaid, second one with good insurance. I’ve had several workman’s comp surgeries, and compared to when it’s strait up insurance again it’s not the same.

I’m not saying top notch health care is a right. I’m just adding my $.02 from my own personal experience that there is a reason otherwise conservative citizens lean center-left on this issue. The working poor are a real thing.

In a perfect world it would be free, but if you deincentivise it with no profit potential you won’t get the best and brightest becoming doctors or surgeons. I understand that. Also any kind of .gov health care is doomed to fail unless immigration is halted, and spay/neuter isn’t part of the welfare system.

I guess the NHS in England is really super awesome.

I’m a tax payer. Why isn’t my car insurance free?

You dont pay for gas and electric too do you?

Did you calculate the much higher food, fuel, booze, real estate costs in Canada too in your calculations?

I’m gonna get an electric car. Just plug it in, its free too. Just like when you plug your phone in at Starbucks.

Free electric cars in every box of cereal.

Yes, our average wage is higher. Our retirement income is ~$200 000/year that is with my wife having a part time job, this isn't average but through our own merits and hard work we got there. We do not pay for health insurance which can be 1000's of dollars a month, instead vacation anywhere in the world we want , pursue the shooting sports, drive good vehicles, boats, bikes, paid for children's university education etc.

Real Estate is up right now and is a burden for working families, nobody lives in a 900 sq ft house anymore, more like 2500 sq ft with higher operating costs, they burden themselves a lot of times.

Laugh my azz off.

So, you are the Tom Vu real estate Guru on the 'fire, and wouldn't explain how to buy real estate with the "no down payment" system, sold by all of the scammer seminar peeps, in that other thread where I handed your azz to you, and here you let it slip out.

YOUR A SOCIALIST LEMMON ROBBING THE TAX PAYERS OF THEIR HARD EARNED MONEY AS A SECTION 8 LANDLORD.

And you're here in this thread posting brainwashing the people into believing you're a conservative by posting against Commie medical care.

Oh crap. I can't stop laughing.

Take me off ignore, and read this once again, of how I just exposed you for who you truly are, a stinking commie who makes their money robbing from the hard workers on this forum.

Oh crap, I can't stop laughing how you commie's eventually stick your foot in your mouths and expose the true YOU.

Oh, how sweet this is.

ROFLaughing my azz off.....can't stop.

It’s easy to spot a property that’s been vacated by S8 tenants.

You're a lazy fugking moron who I owe nothing.

The joke is on you. I still refuse to pour out my brain on the table for you.

Yes. I'm a hard working capitalist. NO apologies. Get your shriveled commie balls out of the trailer and experiment, toil, fail, succeed. That's what America is all about. You fugking commie moronic dumbass.

Funny. I already said what I pay my guys. Should I start a union shop?

Who's Tom Vu?

PS- you have never handed azz to anyone except your butch boyfriend.

Laughing.

According to what I've read, personal home mortgage interest is not allowed as a tax deduction in Canada.

According to what I've read, too, the Canadian healthcare system coverage varies from province to province, and doesn't necessarily cover everything.

It also sounds like it could be a bit complex to keep up with.

People keep confusing our government with charity.

Churches give charity.

I don't see charity in the Constitution.

Privilege. I challenge you or any other LIB to find it in the Bill of Rights.

Don't be mad because you just got your azz handed to you...again.

Like all commie, you accuse your opponent with multiples of "false negatives" instead of debating the facts, in the hope you can drown out the other person. Guess what, that doesn't work on a screen sucker. You can use that tactic in person while running your mouth and then walking away, like you people always do, but online, it's a failed game plan.

Pour out your brain? People with a brain don't have to pay a "trustee" to teach them how to milk the taxpayers of their hard earned money like you did, they actually go take true risks like a "true" entrepreneur who believes in our free Republic, not someone like you who obviously looks to government to pay them, and "calls" them self a capitalist.

Where is "your" risk when you have a "guaranteed" paycheck coming from the government taxpayers?



Truth, I don't think you're even close to being the top cheese of that taxpayer milking LLC you're at, because your posting looks like a immature child, not that of a successful person.

It screams, immature teenager working for daddy, and daddy is the one with his hand held out to the government, while milking the taxpayers.

Last "tell" that comes from you to support my belief here, I've never had a "real" successful businessman not want to discuss business, like you refuse to do, and that my little grasshopper is a dead giveaway. Nobody was asking you to give away proprietary information or trade secrets little man, but an adult would've understood that.

And you weren't 100% vested in your real estate like I exposed in the other thread, or you would not be having to conduct "title" work" being your "trustee" was retiring (CASHING OUT).

Checkmate...or was that Game...Set....Match.

You do have some epic meltdowns here.

Many of us remember the best, most entertaining yet as your "I'm not a Russian Troll" thread.

Now that you are done melting down over Local Dirt, you can get back to melting down on me over in the other thread....

Too funny.

'Fire's FULL of ankle biters today!

If Canada's COMMIE HC was so great, then there would not be an industry where brokers get wealthy Canadians into the US for healthcare...so they can save their lives.

Correct , mortgage interest is not tax deductible. It does vary a bit, but the live saving and life enhancing surgeries are looked after. Our system spends resources on preventative care. Trips to the doctor or emergency room are looked after or as I say pre-payed.

Right now I am waiting for a lens replacement, choice of 3 doctors who do this in my small town, I will be zero out of pocket when the preliminary, the actual surgery, and follow up is done. This all started when my vision started to go south as well as my shooting scores.

None of this is complex, make an appointment and the medical health professionals do the rest.

A sticker for a lot of people is they do not want to spend, through tax dollars, any money to those who can't or won't help themselves.

When did you taxes ever go down?

Yup, never, so you might as well get something for it.

By all means not a perfect system, but the threat of financial ruin and second rate care are not a concern. Plus, cash for insurance premiums is spent on fun stuff or in earlier years kids education.

You are so fugking stupid, it's not worth my time responding.. You can't grasp capitalism in its simplest form, let alone strategies I HAVE USED.

And I'm STILL not going to teach you schit.

You've won nothing, except your life as an idiot. Congratulations.

Goodbye.

Lol.

Spoken like a true closet democrat as you closet democrats here cover for each other while posting your lies to refute facts I post.

You're all the same.

LOL at "meltdown". See there, just like all commies with your false negative accusations.

I handed you guys your azzes, and put up money, and you call it a meltdown, when I shoved the facts in your faces for 20+ pages, that you were broke dics who couldn't back your yaps. You guys asked me to prove it, and when I put money up, you guys call "putting up money" a meltdown, just exactly as a closet democrat would.

Only closet democrats accuse someone of having a meltdown, when they are posting hard facts easily supported with just a little DD at your finger tips, which you have proven you lack the skills to do.

Don't be upset Barry, when I try to help you, and you thank me for helping you by continuing to attack me, and then I come back with "cold hard facts" which make you look foolish, like you not understanding how GDP is determined, "properly".

Why don't you try debating with your "own" information, instead of having to rely on what is written in a propaganda article, written to brainwash the public into believing the economy is growing?

You do realize there might be a few people reading here, who don't comment or only make few posts, and who are very intelligent and successful, do you not? And, I guarantee you, they are laughing at "you" not me, and you can take that to the bank. It is 100% liquid.

Rocking Barry got his azz handed to him . LMAO

From David Crockett to the US Congress:

"We have the right, as individuals, to give away as much of our own money as we please in charity; but as members of Congress we have no right to appropriate a dollar of the public money."

Free healthcare is Charity.

You're right. I can't grasp "your" REDEFINED idea of what capitalism is:


Come on, tell us all how this "new" "democratic socialism", you guys call it now, is suppose to work, Mr. Section 8 Housing Landlord.

LOL....You can't even talk simple business. What makes you think you can teach me something, when our posting shows polar opposite in intellect, yours being at the bottom, obviously?

Hey Local dirt (SECTION 8 HOUSING LANDLORD), are you providing transportation for your Section 8 tenants to the voting locations, so they can vote to keep your paycheck from the government flowing into your bank account?

That would be a vote for BIDEN / HARRIS......

I knew you were a closet commie democrat socialist. Your debating skills are a dead giveaway.

[



[/quote]


When did you taxes ever go down?

Yup, never, so you might as well get something for it.

By all means not a perfect system, but the threat of financial ruin and second rate care are not a concern. Plus, cash for insurance premiums is spent on fun stuff or in earlier years kids education.



[/quote]

Mine and a lot of other people's went down when Trump signed his tax cut. People are getting to the point where they think every desire is a right. Healthcare and everything else other than what's in the bill of rights isn't a right in the U.S.

YES! Just like all the other necessities of life: food, shelter, clothing.

You get what you want to or can pay for.

Having another meltdown?

Don't worry.

Obamacare can give you some more free meds...

Not much of a meltdown compared to this one though

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/14728630/1

“RockinChairBarr”

Dude, you're so lathered up, you can't even raise short term memory correctly.

I said I WAS a Section 8 landlord, for 17 years.

I've one by one gotten rid of all those bums and exchanged them for working folks.

Dumbass liberals like you that support lies with lies don't constitute much of an argument.

Do you think we forget the dumb schit you say in the last paragraph, or said last week?

Now stick your finger back up your nose and fugk off.

Lol.

Remember the $40,000 bet?

Bwahahahaha!

You've gotten pretty fast at switching suckpuppets...

Healthcare is a service......much like a haircut. If you pay for a haircut, I am not aware of anyone who cuts hair who would not oblige you.

Were there no money to be made in healthcare, there'd be no healthcare.

You are a fool if you think I have any obligation to pay for your healthcare......or haircut.

When Trump's tax cuts kicked in I kept an extra $250 a month in my pocket. That's $3K a year more for me and my wife to spend rather than allowing congress to spend it. I know for a fact I can spend it a lot more effectively for my family than the idiots in DC can. I'm betting most others have had roughly the same amount retained in their pay and I'm also betting that most of us can spend $$$ more effectively for our respective families than those fools in Washington can.

Personally I could care less if the welfare queens in Detroit and the crackhead gang bangers of Chicago all starve due to lack of funding.

Well, you're right about one thing, no one is laughing at you.

Shaking their heads in disgust maybe, but there's nothing remotely funny about your self-important blather.

But please, call me a "closet democrat." I'm feeling left out.

Like a pac of thugs on the South Chicago streets, you closet democrats here run to provide cover for each other when you're getting your azzes handed to you.

The extent of rockinbbar's vocabulary is:

meltdown, also known as Low I.Q.

LMAO

I remember putting up $40,000, and I remember every closet democrat here running for the doors.

Yeah, it sure was Bwahahahahahahaha watching little girls run their mouths, and not have the backbone to back it with cash.

What are your monthly payments on your MOBILE HOME, you broke dic?

You’re lying. You never said in your statement, “WAS” or “when I used to be”, nothing whatsoever to imply your statement was past tense. Typical closet democrat repeating the lies in the hope it sticks.

And then you follow up with standard commie debating, that of accusing your opponent of being the one lying.

Straight out of Saul Alinsky's book.



https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...health-care-for-us-citizens#Post15357800

Probably as fast as your hip dislocating walking to the mailbox !

Back in the 60's a leader of our people warned us all about a vast military conspiracy. There does not appear to be anyone capable of warning us about the vast healthcare conspiracy. There were several blue states which already had some form of universal healthcare prior to the affordable care act. None were successful. That's what we have right now and the congress persons from all those blue states voted that every other state in the union should have it..

Good luck and shoot straight y'all

I put this ISRO on ignore.

Didn't you learn about a year ago, after I exposed you for being a Global Warming Believer, you do not have the wit to out debate me, especially when you "REFUSED" to accept documented hard proof I presented at your feet from scientists proving you wrong, and you said, "You can't use that. You need to find something else".(paraphrased).

You're not a closet democrat smokee, You're a full blown communist, just like all global warming believers...straight up batschit crazy....just like the girl balling her eyes out while sitting in the woods in that video on youtube....pure batschit crazy, like all democrat commies.

And like the cyber stalker you have proven to be on this site while attacking me for a few years now, well, yessir, you've definitely typed plenty to prove batschit crazy is a well deserving description of you too.

P.S. It's fun watching you make a fool out of yourself when on your commie sock puppet accounts here.

Jisro

“Your” wrong.

I assume everyone on this board who is opposed to public health care IS NOT a Medicare recipient?

Americans do not want health care to be provided. Americans want to pay insurance companies big money for partial coverage. Americans should have that opportunity; everything is just fine the way it is. GD

Medicare, like Social Security is a program I have been paying into since 1974 and will continue to pay for another 28 months. I will gladly forego any benefits from either program if someone will give me all my money back along with the accrued earnings had it been placed in my Prudential 401 K at the time of deduction.

Since that is not going to happen. I have a CONTRACT with the US government that my benefits are guaranteed. Benefits I have bought and paid for.

Yes, still Socialism. Socialism we are forced to participate in. We do not need to add any more Socialism to the system.

I'm not you fuggin Lib.

Neither. It's a business agreement. When you choose to go to a doctor you agree to pay for the services you request. (not demand) If you do not like the method of paying for the requested service then you go somewhere else. You get NOTHING for free and expecting someone else to pay for it is theft. Plain of THEFT.
kwg

I've said it several times on this board, but here's just one of those times, genius.





I'll say one thing for ya, dude. You're funny as hell.

Lol.

WHY WOULD ANYBODY WASTE A SINGLE SECOND OF LIFE TRYING TO BEAT LOGIC INTO A TROLL??????? GIVE IT UP GUYS!!!! IF YOU FIND YOURSELF BEING TEMPTED, JUST PUT THE DIPSHlT ON IGNORE.

Are you talking about JISRO, or elkslyaer, LOL.

LMAO. First you claim you said "WAS" in THIS thread, and after having your azz handed to you for lying about that, you go produce where it was said in a completely different thread, as though people are supposed to know every single word you have ever typed on this site. Laughing my azz off here.

Yeah, you're a mental case alright. Either way, you have zero room to gripe about the commies, when you were at the government trough for 17 years bleeding taxpayers pal.

Excellent idea.

I assume you realize people that work (I know, I know.... crazy idea) pay in to Medicare and Social security? These are Insurance’s you pay for, for years, ahead of time. Big difference from Nancy’s like you that believe they should be given free everything without paying into it.

Hey [bleep], You cherry picked and truncated my post, you phoney fugk.

You're like a little cnn.

LMAO..

Thank you so much, I'm now a proud member of the "elkslayer called me a commie democrat club," it's a very exclusive club, LOL. But looking at the membership, I see I'm in good company. The common thread being, we've all told you you're a dipschit. So it's clear that your sole criterion for labeling someone a commie democrat is, they called you out as being a dipschit. Talk about talking a page out of the playbook, apparently you wrote the damn thing.


Speaking of exclusive clubs, it seems I'm also a member of the "elkslayer handed me my ass club." You must have had your hands on more men's asses than Elton John by now. I'm thinking you like the sound of that.

More obfuscation and lying from you. I simply pointed out you did not say "WAS" in your post, and you have done nothing but dance and weave from the truth, and oh yes, you were triggered...

I'm cnn?....lol....you're the closet democrat who was at the government "Section 8 Housing Landlord" trough clown.

When you made up that lie last year that you scraped your eye, and had to rest it two days in your "hotel room", before you could drive home from supposedly Elk hunting, it sure is funny how 2 things:

1 - Your male "partner" you took hunting with you couldn't drive you both home instead, so that right there proves you were lying, again.

2 - You did not get online in the forum while "supposedly resting" your eye in your "hotel room" for 2 days (one eye was good), which as addicted to this site as you are, it sure is funny how you spent 2 whole days in a "hotel room" with another man just "resting" your eye and not getting on the forum, when you "claimed" the year before you were "in" your hotel room the night before the opener, and on this forum to cover your lying.

Uh huh. I think I know what probably went on in that room for 2 whole days, and there was no "resting", more like 2 "partners" had their hands on more men's asses than Elton John while they wrestled in bed.

Isn't it funny how the homos always must spin a topic and bring GAY SEX into a topic to cram it down everyone's throat, to force them to be accepted, right smokee with your Elton John reference, just like you like to brag about your glutes in the workout thread to bring attention to your azz? Sick sumbitches.

LMAO...Caught ya bitch.

i'm a long time "lurker" here, I see everyone's comments agree and disagree, but the sum of it all is that you just argue and seem to enjoy it. You engage in all the name calling, can't see each other, can't stand toe-to-toe to foist your belief on the other. Seems like just a bunch of petty children calling each other names, can't even meet on the playground. This is a good forum and one that I migrate to before some others. You all seem like you're intelligent, but the "crap" you spew at each other is entertaining and sad some times. This county is coming into something of a bad time I believe, if you could come together with a common thought how much better would that be. by the way...……………...i'm the most conservative you can imagine...……………...

JFC, and you call me a stalker? You're a creepy bastard and you follow me closer than my friends and family do. But the problem is, you don't know jack schidt and your "detective" skills are on par with an imbecile. If you want to prove any of the bullsh*t you just spewed above, feel free. I have the friggin' medical claims, from a provider where I said I was, when I said I was. As a matter of fact, here's my proposition, dickweed: If I can post a scanned copy of my medical claim here (with the personal ID information blacked out of course) from the MD who treated me in Telluride during the muzzleloader season last year, you'll leave and never post here again. No muss, no fuss. Put up or shut up.

And it's telling that you assume two guys go on a hunting trip for a homosexual liaison. Maybe in your world, two guys can't just go hunting without that?

My hunting partner lives in Steamboat Springs and he drove up separately you stupid c*nt. If he drove me home, one of us would have to leave our vehicle 6+ hours from home, and get a ride from someone else to drive back down and get it. I wouldn't ask anyone to do that, and he didn't stay in my room asswipe, he drove home. Again, the fact that you would assume he stayed in my room is telling.

You're a pathetic, piece of sh*t moron who doesn't know what he doesn't know. A veritable poster boy for Dunning-Kruger. I'd love to meet you face-to face some time, you little twat

Great post - one everyone should read and consider.

You two “conservatives” should share a dessert coffee.

Damn. You are one dumb sumbitch.

And you still can't fugkin read.

Lmao.

And you have just put into words my thoughts on Medicare, as well, with one small difference..

I have finally finished paying into it and now bask in the light of the rainbow.

the bottom line is if you want affordable healthcare you have to incentivise Americans to demand cheaper healthcare which would result in health care providers competing in the marketplace for patients.

you also have to put caps on big pharma and limit their ability to be the sole provider of a medical treatment.

DocRocket said here, you can have good, fast, cheap. Pick two.

you'll never have affordable health care if 1. you don't even know what something costs before you get it done 2. you don't have the ability to negotiate or shop around for services, 3. you're not motivated to decrease your costs

The health care market doesn't do that now, other than insurance companies negotiating rates on a procedure which in some cases, you get stuck paying the difference. I don't see how its beneficial to me if my insurance company says they will pay "X" for a procedure, the hospital sets a price of "y" and I have to make up the difference. Both sides are playing me at that point.

Health care is a personal responsibility.

Our health insurance is getting to be unaffordable again. Health care isn't a right but it would be nice if it was affordable.

One point a lot of people ignore is that no insurance companies fought Obummmer on this. He required everybody to buy from them by law. I’m guessing he got a pretty good off shore account for that. My insurance more than doubled under him and my deductible went from zero to ten thousand dollars. Thanks a lot you commie Schitt. If he would have saved us anymore money we would all be without insurance. Edk

The ever increasing cost of health insurance has to be economically stifling to the country as a whole and especially for the working lower and middle class when monthly premiums can easily equal the monthly mortgage payment of a pretty nice house. Instead of adding more in savings, investing, and/or putting more money back into circulation through spending it's going to insurance companies.

In many smaller towns the hospital is the largest employer in town.

Healthcare is great in the USA

WTH
?#??

#WTFis your point

What about them? Life's tough and often unfair as all get out. That doesn't mean that I have to subsidize someone else's "free healthcare". I worked for and earned the healthcare that I have and I'm not at ALL interested in funding someone else's, which also results in my access to doctors being rationed because now I am not only PAYING for deadbeats "free healthcare", I am standing in line behind them. Bull$h!t on that!

Healthcare is NOT a right, it never was in this country, nor should it be.

Just for the sake of argument, when do you THINK healthcare became a right in America, and where is that "right" documented?

Good post. Spot on.

.Gov allows your private insurance to deny payment unless Medicare approves the charge.

lol, semiprivate insurance.

Healthcare and insurance is in the mess it’s in *because* of the government.

pne of the things I'll never understand is even if something is a right some people think it should be free of cost. We all agree that the 2A and right to own books are rights, but if we proposed that the gov't buy us all new guns and books every year the left would probably change their minds pretty fast about people paying their own freight.

Not in the medical field, but I think Medicare/Medicaid is a big part of the problem in that their reimbursement rates are so low that the provider has to try and make up the difference from other patients. I saw somewhere that the Medicare payment rate for an office visit in my area is like $15. Figure that the dr. takes 10 mins with each one, he's looking at $90 an hour to cover receptionist salary, nurse salary, rent, utilities, insurance, taxes and then try to make a living off what 's left. Once it's all said and done he's looking at a take home of less than $20/hour unless he really jacks up the rate for all the non medicare/medicaid patients.

I think people have a right to all the healthcare they can pay for.
Why should professionals have to work and give away their services for free?
Why does someone think they have a right to services that someone else has to pay for?

My last surgery my room costs were around $9000 a day. I asked the nurses why so high and they pointed down the hall to the rooms filled with homeless drug addicts pretending to be sick so they could take a shower and get some hot food, free pain meds in the hospital and stay a week or so. The nurses stated I was paying for all of them and their free bed and meals.

They would always call an ambulance to get a free ride to the hospital. It was always the same homeless drug addicts