Two companies that are nearing approval are using a messenger RNA intereference (mRNAi) approach.
It seems a bit strange that they might approve this technology on people before a simmilar approach is approved to control beetle larvae feeding on corn roots.
Not my baliwick so maybe I might be connecting dots in the wrong order.
Sign me up for the first shot. It sounds like a new base map download for your GPS. All of a sudden your body will have a direction on what's good and what's bad.
Vaccine I've heard of will make you sick....very sick for 5 days or so. It gives you several corona strains. No thank you!
That kind of vaccine is called a protein or peptide vaccine(antigens). This means parts of, dead or weakened viruses are in the vaccine. This is what the flu vaccine is. These take longer to develop because you have to, usually, not always, grow the virus in large quantities to get enough virus material to produce millions (billions) of doses.
ALL the leading SARS-CoV-2 vaccines are not these kind. They are DNA or nRNA types. Very different mechanism. The Russian vaccine for example is a vector based vaccine, which I'm pretty sure means a DNA vaccine, where they use modifed cold viruses to deliver plasmoid DNA(covid DNA) to your cell to get it generate antigens. Moderna and Pfizer vaccines are both competing mRNA vaccines with LPN delivery mechanisms. It gets real complicated, but there are no human approved vaccines using this tech before COVID-19.
The bottom line is that most SARS-CoV-2 vaccine candidates are bio tech, which had it's conception in gene therapy work. These are not your fathers kinds of vaccines.
There’s an entire school of research within public health on how to frighten people, known as “fear appeal” Fear appeal is based on the premise that to successfully implement a public health measure, you must first highlight a threat. And, to work, the threat must be made personal, so that people fear for their personal safety Next, you give people something immediate to do that will set them on the path of cooperating with the plan in its entirety. Examples during the COVID-19 pandemic include not leaving your house, wearing a mask, staying 6 feet apart, closing certain businesses and keeping children home from school. In the future, we can expect to be told we must get vaccinated and digitally tracked before we can resume life as normal By adding confusion to the mix, you can bring an individual from fear to anxiety — a state of confusion in which you can no longer think logically. In this state, you are more easily manipulated Eventually, when the fear and anxiety are great enough, desperation sets in, at which point people are willing to do just about anything to get relief
There’s an entire school of research within public health on how to frighten people, known as “fear appeal” Fear appeal is based on the premise that to successfully implement a public health measure, you must first highlight a threat. And, to work, the threat must be made personal, so that people fear for their personal safety Next, you give people something immediate to do that will set them on the path of cooperating with the plan in its entirety. Examples during the COVID-19 pandemic include not leaving your house, wearing a mask, staying 6 feet apart, closing certain businesses and keeping children home from school. In the future, we can expect to be told we must get vaccinated and digitally tracked before we can resume life as normal By adding confusion to the mix, you can bring an individual from fear to anxiety — a state of confusion in which you can no longer think logically. In this state, you are more easily manipulated Eventually, when the fear and anxiety are great enough, desperation sets in, at which point people are willing to do just about anything to get relief
This is so right on the money!
I already see the anxiety stage with the last set of lock downs. People are genuinely getting irrational about things.
Truth is the mortality rates we are seeing with this virus are biologically insignificant. IMAGINE if someone unleashed, I mean that literally, a virus that had a 5% or 10% mortality across the board. The entire country would descend into complete dystopian chaos folks.
I don't know the specifics of the upcoming vaccines but I'm going to get it once it makes its way to me. I live in small town podunk ville and I suspect a few million people will get vaccinated before it's available to me. We'll see how it affects them.
I don't know the specifics of the upcoming vaccines but I'm going to get it once it makes its way to me. I live in small town podunk ville and I suspect a few million people will get vaccinated before it's available to me. We'll see how it affects them.
Probably more than a few million people.
I've heard 25 million doses a month starting early 2021. Priority will be health care workers, essential (which I'm sure will include democrats and the oligarch class) workers. The UN is lobbying for third world fairness which means world wide competition for the vaccine.
Given all that it may be years before world vaccination. I wonder if there will be another virus looming during that time. I wonder if we are now entering a state of permanent vaccination requirements. Maybe the 21st century prozac.
I don't know the specifics of the upcoming vaccines but I'm going to get it once it makes its way to me. I live in small town podunk ville and I suspect a few million people will get vaccinated before it's available to me. We'll see how it affects them.
Probably more than a few million people.
I've heard 25 million doses a month starting early 2021. Priority will be health care workers, essential (which I'm sure will include democrats and the oligarch class) workers. The UN is lobbying for third world fairness which means world wide competition for the vaccine.
Given all that it may be years before world vaccination. I wonder if there will be another virus looming during that time. I wonder if we are now entering a state of permanent vaccination requirements. Maybe the 21st century prozac.
I expect that COVID 19, 20, 21....... will be standard additions to our yearly flu shots.
I don't know the specifics of the upcoming vaccines but I'm going to get it once it makes its way to me. I live in small town podunk ville and I suspect a few million people will get vaccinated before it's available to me. We'll see how it affects them.
Probably more than a few million people.
I've heard 25 million doses a month starting early 2021. Priority will be health care workers, essential (which I'm sure will include democrats and the oligarch class) workers. The UN is lobbying for third world fairness which means world wide competition for the vaccine.
Given all that it may be years before world vaccination. I wonder if there will be another virus looming during that time. I wonder if we are now entering a state of permanent vaccination requirements. Maybe the 21st century prozac.
You're a fuuckin nut job. You'll fit in well here.
The bottom line is that most SARS-CoV-2 vaccine candidates are bio tech, which had it's conception in gene therapy work. These are not your fathers kinds of vaccines.
That was my point. Seems to be a rush on adopting something this new for a disease with such a low fatality rate to this point. The math and politics on this virus are pretty bizare.
Not anti vaccine at all but the way these vaccines work make me a wee bit nervous and it doesn't get much play.
It's definitely not true that all SARS-CoV-2 candidate vaccines are mRNA based. The leading vaccines for the US are from Moderna and Pfizer. These two are mRNA.
There are serious development efforts using other technology including old school protein based vaccines.
heard this morning the Pfizer vaccine has to be kept at like -70 degrees which will work for hospitals and equipped facilities but not lend itself to mass distribution
The Moderna vaccine can be kept in normal refrigeration.
Trump set up funding for both of them going back to Jan of this year but if Biden is in office you better believe he'll take credit for it.
It's definitely not true that all SARS-CoV-2 candidate vaccines are mRNA based. The leading vaccines for the US are from Moderna and Pfizer. These two are mRNA.
There are serious development efforts using other technology including old school protein based vaccines.
So how would a person know factually which vaccine they are being given? And with all that we know now, how could one believe what they are being told by their Dr. or healthcare worker. Would they lie to Dr. or Healthcare as to the contents of the vaccine? Do you trust big pharma with all that is coming out now about them? How can a vaccine successfully duplicate the job of tonsils?
It's definitely not true that all SARS-CoV-2 candidate vaccines are mRNA based. The leading vaccines for the US are from Moderna and Pfizer. These two are mRNA.
There are serious development efforts using other technology including old school protein based vaccines.
So how would a person know factually which vaccine they are being given? And with all that we know now, how could one believe what they are being told by their Dr. or healthcare worker. Would they lie to Dr. or Healthcare as to the contents of the vaccine? Do you trust big pharma with all that is coming out now about them? How can a vaccine successfully duplicate the job of tonsils?
It's true there is really no way that I know at the moment for a layman to know which vaccine they are getting. You have to trust the healthcare provider.
The job of a vaccine is not to duplicate the role of tonsils. it's simply to fool your body into thinking it's infected and producing a memory immune response. It's biological trickery.
I'm not an anti-vaxer, but I do agree that anti-vaxers make some valid points especially with this new technology.
It seems a bit strange that they might approve this technology on people before a simmilar approach is approved to control beetle larvae feeding on corn roots.
The FDA is usually ridiculously slow to approve any kind of treatment, to the point of it almost being criminal how much they slow walk new therapies. Their refusal to allow experimental drugs to be tested on terminal cancer patients comes to mind. President Trump was right to kick them in the ass and force them to massively accelerate the timeline. A vaccine for Covid needs to be on the market yesterday if for no other reason than it'll placate those that are paralyzed with fear in their parents basement into coming out and going to work again. The lockdowns are killing more people than the virus ever will, the fear that has paralyzed the world for most of the last year has to end. If that means a less than fully tested marginally effective vaccine then so be it, as long as the sheep think it'll help them. We don't have time for the usual FDA approach of slow walking years of testing before approval, our economy will be destroyed before that happens. A reasonable assurance of safety based upon the clinical trials already done is good enough.
I won't be the first to take it but once I'm convinced there aren't any serious side effects I'll take it.
It seems a bit strange that they might approve this technology on people before a simmilar approach is approved to control beetle larvae feeding on corn roots.
the fear that has paralyzed the world for most of the last year has to end. If that means a less than fully tested marginally effective vaccine then so be it, as long as the sheep think it'll help them. We don't have time for the usual FDA approach of slow walking years of testing before approval, our economy will be destroyed before that happens. A reasonable assurance of safety based upon the clinical trials already done is good enough.
I won't be the first to take it but once I'm convinced there aren't any serious side effects I'll take it.
Fear is encouraging a lot of stupid behavior lately. Pandering to make it stop please is only encouraging more. Not saying this new approach is safe or not but I believe that it assumes the tiny piece of RNA they are inducing an immune response to isn't found anywhere but this virus... Heck the same fragment could be in pork or barley.
It seems a bit strange that they might approve this technology on people before a simmilar approach is approved to control beetle larvae feeding on corn roots.
the fear that has paralyzed the world for most of the last year has to end. If that means a less than fully tested marginally effective vaccine then so be it, as long as the sheep think it'll help them. We don't have time for the usual FDA approach of slow walking years of testing before approval, our economy will be destroyed before that happens. A reasonable assurance of safety based upon the clinical trials already done is good enough.
I won't be the first to take it but once I'm convinced there aren't any serious side effects I'll take it.
Fear is encouraging a lot of stupid behavior lately. Pandering to make it stop please is only encouraging more. Not saying this new approach is safe or not but I believe that it assumes the tiny piece of RNA they are inducing an immune response to isn't found anywhere but this virus... Heck the same fragment could be in pork or barley.
I don't want to be pedantic, but knowing some detail can be useful here.
The mRNA is not what induces the immune response. The mRNA when taken up by the cell causes the cell to produce proteins. The mRNA is from SARS-CoV-2. It causes the cell to create proteins(antigens) from the virus with out infecting you and these are what cause the immune response. Old vaccines would inject these directly, but with these new vaccines the idea is to cause your body to do what used to be done in a chicken egg - grow virus protein. It's kind of infecting ourcells, but with out a fully functional virus. Just bits and pieces of the virus.
When you eat pork all the DNA and RNA in the pork muscle cells are digested. No worries there.
A major hurdle with these vaccines is to develop a delivery mechanism to get the DNA or mRNA into the cell and getting itto stay stable long enough to cause protein creation in quantities large enough to obtain an immune response. Not positive but these delivery mechanisms are where the companies distinguish themselves with patents.
The vaccine doesn't make you sick. The vaccine may induce an immune response that may make you feel sick as many of the unpleasantness we feel when we are sick is due to our immune system fighting the disease. It's the disease that is actually the sickness. No live virus = no sickness. You may "feel" sick but you're not. I have asthma and will get the vaccine as soon as I can.
Another way to think of this is: Maybe the left is hoping that Conservative Republicans are so stupid they won't take the vaccine. The left will be protected but the right's numbers will drop due to their own paranoia and ignorance. We're now at about a 50/50 split in this country if they can make it 60/40, they'll never lose.
Hat, Only used pork and barley cause I was enjoying a pulled pork sandwich and pale ale at the time. Don't think that you don't have to eat a protein cooked or otherwise to have an immune response triggered.
What makes the biotech vaccines different, as far as I can decipher, unlike other vaccines, they don't use the complete virus DNA(RNA in SARs)/proteins only a portion of the bases that code for a specific protein. Moderna's being a bit that codes for the protein spike.
My question is: how can they be certain this same sequence or protein does not exist elsewhere in nature ... maybe having a different function? I assume that they probably have figured that out ...but stockholders and marketing often have a different set of ethics than R&D. Curious enough that I need to look up a gene jockey or two to talk to.
Considering how quickly and seemingly easy (I know that "easy" is probably not the right term, but still...) they came up with this vaccine, how is it that other virus' go on and on without ever having a vaccine developed for them? Say for instance HIV or Ebola?
Considering how quickly and seemingly easy (I know that "easy" is probably not the right term, but still...) they came up with this vaccine, how is it that other virus' go on and on without ever having a vaccine developed for them? Say for instance HIV or Ebola?
Its largely about money, Yes the RNA vaccines were easier to design and create, but there is huge amount of costs in setting up GMP production and then the trials necessary to get by the FDA for any vaccine. Under normal circumstances vaccines these costs are mostly upfront from the Pharm/Biotech and there is significant risk that the vaccine won't work or have side effects, or the wave of infections that spurred development will subside and the company will be standing there holding a billion dollar bag. Pretty much the case for ebola and MERS vaccines.
Project Warp speed was effective because it basically pays the Pharms for a certain number of doses before the vaccine was even developed, so it pretty much took the risk out of the process for the Pharms. Even if there vaccine didn't work, they get paid enough to cover the development, production and trials . And there is even more upside, if they make an effective vaccine, even after they supply the first hundred or so million doses that they got paid for there is a 7 billion person market for more doses of the vaccine, so a big upside for a fast effective vaccine.. In my opinion the administration really did a good job removing the hurdles to rapid development, but left the development and production to the people who know the most about it. My guess is that if the control had shifted to the CDC from the Pharms, it would have been much slower and less innovative.
To add to NoKnees, vaccines are notoriously unprofitable endeavors. Take Ebola. Lots of development costs, and a very small, uncertain, POOR, market. Maybe there will be an outbreak, probably not. Not many people in the market, and the majority are in no position to pay for a fairly priced vaccine. So a company would have to make, store (and destroy and remake continuously to keep vaccine available just in case). Who would do that?
I haven't heard or read anything that negates the liability of the companies manufacturing these new vaccines. My understanding is that the phase 3 trials for these vaccines were composed of many many more trial participants (all of which fit the specific trial criteria relating to age, comorbidities, ethnicity, and etc) than have been used historically for these kinds products. Hence, much more data on efficacy, side effects, and etc. before release for use in the population. However, the results of their use in the general population ( with all their comorbidities, age variance, medications, ethnicities, and etc.) will most likely not be realized until we are several months down the road.
Here is another interesting article specifically about the Moderna vaccine - mRNA-1273, which I suspect is going to be the prominant US option. Not positive.
From the article ... "As of September 16, 2020, there were 25,296 participants enrolled in the COVE Phase 3 clinical study. And as of October 2, 2020, 19,369 participants have received their 2nd vaccination of Moderna's mRNA-1273 vaccine candidate"
It's definitely not true that all SARS-CoV-2 candidate vaccines are mRNA based. The leading vaccines for the US are from Moderna and Pfizer. These two are mRNA.
There are serious development efforts using other technology including old school protein based vaccines.
So how would a person know factually which vaccine they are being given? And with all that we know now, how could one believe what they are being told by their Dr. or healthcare worker. Would they lie to Dr. or Healthcare as to the contents of the vaccine? Do you trust big pharma with all that is coming out now about them? How can a vaccine successfully duplicate the job of tonsils?
It's true there is really no way that I know at the moment for a layman to know which vaccine they are getting. You have to trust the healthcare provider.
The job of a vaccine is not to duplicate the role of tonsils. it's simply to fool your body into thinking it's infected and producing a memory immune response. It's biological trickery.
I'm not an anti-vaxer, but I do agree that anti-vaxers make some valid points especially with this new technology.
I'm not sure if I understand what you are saying. The role of tonsils is to trap foreign material coming in then signaling the immune system to make antibodies to get rid of it. Trying to duplicate that natural process with a vaccine that bypass's the tonsils is not a good choice. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYcLMy3r_DA&ab_channel=BruceH.Lipton%2CPh.D. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SO0kKCkzemg&ab_channel=VideoAdvice
Back in the 90s GlaxoSmithKline came out with a Lyme disease vaccine called Lymerix. I was given the vaccine but it was taken off the market, not because it didn't work or because of any documented problems but because it didn't sell well enough for them to continue making it. It's crazy, people would rather take the chance of getting a chronic debilitating disease than get a vaccine shot. i don't understand that. The dangers of the disease are well known, but people would rather take the chance that they won't get the disease or they get scared off by some rumors of this or that might happen.
I feel the same way with COVID 19. We know that it's highly contagious and that some people will get so sick they will need long-term hospitalizations, many will develop chronic conditions due to damaged organs and some will die. The vaccines are showing to be very effective and I've not heard of any major side-effects other than maybe you'll feel sick for a few days. If a little stick in the arm will prevent me from struggling for breath, anxiety over how it'll progress, and the possibility of death or chronic changes in my body, I'll take my chances with the vaccine and with it the return to a normal way of life. I'd be the first in line if I could and be the Guinea Pig for the pussies who are afraid.
"Just trust me.....I mean trust THE PLAN." Just two weeks is all. We've got to flatten the curve. This Wuhan virus has a 40% mortality rate. Just 9 weeks and back to normal. This is a state of emergency. Be scared, be VERY SCARED!"
I could go on all day and some at the camp fire won't be happy campers who lose loved ones to it. Why? You trust the evil SOBs who steal, murder and destroy more than the Great Physician Who forbids these vile concoctions. A lifetime of conditioning is paying off for the eugenics billionaires like Gates and Rockerfeller. They know that they can control most of the people all of the time and count on conservatives trusting trump/foul-chi..... I mean " the plan."
Just trust the plan everyone; just like the polio vaccine that you claim wiped out polio. It wiped out a lot alright. ...a LOT of innocent people with cancer and gave more people polio who took the shot than those who did not.