Precision Matthews, any experience with the company or machines?

Strongly considering a few of their milling machines. Looking for first hand knowledge. The Taiwan built PM-833TV especially.

Thanks

No first hand, but never heard anything bad. I have a Grizzly, it's not a Bridgeport, but I didn't pay for a Bridgeport.

I’ve been looking at the PM branded stuff, mostly lathes. Found a place over by Rockford Illinois that had a few. Was able to go look at and run them. I’m pretty impressed. Hoping to add one to the shop before taxes go through roof. They seem to be really well equipped for the money. And with the older machines getting harder to find I think they are a viable option

I’ve got a Pm milling machine. I’ve been happy with it. I’ve owned it about two years. So far so good. Mine is the pm30mv.

Thanks guys. The used perfect condition comes with $$$$ tooling deals are sparse.

Originally Posted by WayneShaw

No first hand, but never heard anything bad. I have a Grizzly, it's not a Bridgeport, but I didn't pay for a Bridgeport.

What model? A few possibilities...

A friend in Alaska just bought one.
And he looked carefully
Shipped to Bethel.......not cheap.

Does his homework

You are much better off buying a quality used machine with comprehensive tooling.

Originally Posted by pal

You are much better off buying a quality used machine with comprehensive tooling.

Yep, that will magically appear here in W Montana for my consideration... Check. Oh, and I should do this about 20 years ago roughly.

I saw some posts by WQUILES on the candlepower forum in 2009 about his Precision Matthews lathe.
I talked to Matt at Precision Matthews in March 2009, and ordered a PM1236 with DRO in October 2009.
It arrived in Seattle from China via Penn [where the DRO was added] in Jan 2010.

[Linked Image]

The PM1236 is the 5th lathe I have paid for. I have used it most every day on my silly hobby stuff.
I made this handle from Cherry from my neighbor's yard in the lathe 2 days ago.

I was making something good today, until I snapped off a 10x1.5mm tap in a tool post I was making:(

I think you cannot go wrong with a Jet, Grizzly, or Precision Matthews lathe from China.... but for mills, I think used American mills are a better deal.

WQUILES got a precision matthews
Applied science got a Grizzly.
My brother got a 14x40 Jet.
All three of those guys are way better machinests than me.
https://www.youtube.com/c/AppliedScience/videos

My Grizzly is similar to the G0731, but I bought mine 15 years ago and it came with a bigger table.

Originally Posted by WayneShaw

My Grizzly is similar to the G0731, but I bought mine 15 years ago and it came with a bigger table.

Thanks

Originally Posted by MtnBoomer

Originally Posted by pal

You are much better off buying a quality used machine with comprehensive tooling.

Yep, that will magically appear here in W Montana for my consideration... Check...

You don't have to believe in magic--just use your head. How do you think brand new Chinese machines get to W Montana? (They are shipped)

If you are simply trying to rationalize buying a cheap import, just admit it and settle for what you get. Same as buying from Harbor Freight. Or if you are a lazy shopper, or can't justify the time it takes to search the used machine market, that's ok too. But don't expect quality to magically appear for your consideration if you are unwilling to put in some effort.

I have been shopping for a mill. PM machines are definitely an option.

You could do a lot worse than the big Jet on craigslist right now in Randal Wa. 5,000 asking. Clean.

Boomer - look at my MILL DRO post.

I have a PM30 (Precision Matthews) bench mill, and a PM1440GT - 14x40 Gunsmith lathe.

Great company, excellent customer service, head and shoulders above the Grizzly china machines...
they use the right parts at the right places (you can have some china stuff, but you want Taiwanese / Japanese parts where it counts.

My lathe spindle has less than 2 / 10,000ths variation !! DANG !

One tip - Order you machines with DRO’s.. it’s not hard to put them on yourself (like I did on my Mill) but fabricating the brackets takes a while, so I wish I had just done it to begin with (I did on my lathe).

Precision Matthews milling machines are made in Taiwan. The Taiwanese machines are higher quality than Chinese. But some are better than others.

I'd get the knee mill with the power feed table and the digital readout. Digital readouts allow you to do much more accurate work and the power feed can be set to make your cuts optimally smooth.

https://www.toolots.com/x-multiple-...5nbfk7QIVGUqGCh1AvQHWEAQYBSABEgLC9_D_BwE

I got a bench mill because I wanted a smaller footprint, but if I were in my new shop, or new I would have been moving I would have gotten a Bridgeport equivalent.

There are very few things I can’t do with my benchmill, but it’s somewhat getting close to the end of it’s travel when I do a couple of things.

+100 on the DRO, I was drilling and tapping receivers for scope mounts - you just can’t beat using a DRO vs. dialing it... I am really enjoying my DRO right now.

I had a 600 pound Rockwell 21-100 mill and replaced it with a 2000 pound Bridgeport series II.

The old mill would have been just as good for gunsmithing projects if I had:
1) installed DRO
2) installed auto feed
3) rebuilt to get the backlash out of the X axis.

Originally Posted by Clarkm

I had a 600 pound Rockwell 21-100 mill and replaced it with a 2000 pound Bridgeport series II.

The old mill would have been just as good for gunsmithing projects if I had:
1) installed DRO
2) installed auto feed
3) rebuilt to get the backlash out of the X axis.

You only need to adjust the gib to take the backlash out of the X or Y axis,....5 minute job. Basically, it involved turning a screw with a screwdriver.

Also, the lead screw is affixed to the table of the milling machine with a split nut,...usually bronze. If the backlash is coming from wear on the split nut you only need to spread the split nut via a tapered screw which is threaded into the split in order to spread the nut which tightens the relationship between the nut and the lead screw.

Milling machine tables are designed to be adjusted. They'll loosen up over time and will need to be tightened up. It's not a big job.

Originally Posted by Bristoe

Originally Posted by Clarkm

I had a 600 pound Rockwell 21-100 mill and replaced it with a 2000 pound Bridgeport series II.

The old mill would have been just as good for gunsmithing projects if I had:
1) installed DRO
2) installed auto feed
3) rebuilt to get the backlash out of the X axis.

You only need to adjust the gib to take the backlash out of the X or Y axis,....5 minute job. Basically, it involved turning a screw with a screwdriver.

Also, the lead screw is affixed to the table of the milling machine with a split nut,...usually bronze. If the backlash is coming from wear on the split nut you only need to spread the split nut via a tapered screw which is threaded into the split in order to spread the nut which tightens the relationship between the nut and the lead screw.

Milling machine tables are designed to be adjusted. They'll loosen up over time and will need to be tightened up. It's not a big job.

Yeah, when I read this book about the next mill
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/1482367912
I realized after I gave away the old mill to a hunting buddy that I could have fixed it.
I paid $2500 for the first mill and $12,500 for the second.

40 years ago I saw parking spots in Manhattan Beach in LA and in Tokyo cost more than a new porsche to park there.
Now in Seattle, the price of a mill is nothing compared to the cost of the space to store it.

I think BlondiHacks has a precision Matthews mill and lathe. She is in a shop 3 feet wide, and has to pull the car out to work. That is in the Bay area, I think.
https://www.youtube.com/c/Blondihacks/videos
She was independently writing games for the I-phone 5 years ago for a living when my son was.
That is one smart woman.

The last place I worked had an old Bridgeport Mill about 50 years old that nobody used because the table was so loose. It had a good, variable speed head that ran smooth, a good brake, power feed on the X axis and a digital readout. I cleaned it up, adjusted the gibs and the split screw and used it daily for 8 years.

It's fairly hard to wear out the body of a good quality knee mill. The head will sometimes need work,..usually the spindle bearings. But the ways on a milling machine will last longer than the person operating it if they're kept clean and oiled.

This guy seems to like them.

I have a grizzly G0761 mill and the G0602 lathe, they are comparable to P M equipment. What ever you get, on the mill get a DRO , and a small lathe with variable speed motor control. The mill is a work horse for its size. The lathe could use a dc drive motor, but works good as is!

For the cost and if you have the room why not buy a used knee type mill? More rigid, more table travel and way more versatile. I see used bridgeport type mills on craigslist for around $3000.00. Get a set of R8 collets, a Jacobs brand ball bearing drill chuck, some good quality drill bits and taps and you're off to a great start. I buy allot from these 2 places https://www.maritool.com/ and https://www.mscdirect.com/ A good quality milling vise is a great asset too. https://www.mscdirect.com/

I have a PM 1440BV with dro and southbend heavy 10. I also have a jet mill with dro.

The PM is far behind compared to a Southbend. It is accurate to 2/10ths.

It's a good buy, but I'd take a used rig of slightly higher quality before full price on a new one.....but a new rig makes money as soon as you have it.

Tarquin,

Yep, that’s Gavin, he took some of Gordy Gritters Gunsmithing courses as well, and Gordy is the guy who has helped a bunch of us guys who learned gunsmithing from him build our shops.

In fact Gordy just bought another PM lathe after he moved to Florida for teaching classes.

Originally Posted by Tarquin

This guy seems to like them.

Originally Posted by pal

Originally Posted by MtnBoomer

Originally Posted by pal

You are much better off buying a quality used machine with comprehensive tooling.

Yep, that will magically appear here in W Montana for my consideration... Check...

You don't have to believe in magic--just use your head. How do you think brand new Chinese machines get to W Montana? (They are shipped)

If you are simply trying to rationalize buying a cheap import, just admit it and settle for what you get. Same as buying from Harbor Freight. Or if you are a lazy shopper, or can't justify the time it takes to search the used machine market, that's ok too. But don't expect quality to magically appear for your consideration if you are unwilling to put in some effort.

Fuuckoff

Originally Posted by flintlocke

You could do a lot worse than the big Jet on craigslist right now in Randal Wa. 5,000 asking. Clean.

I will take a look.

Thanks for the discussion folks, especially those understanding the specific topic as posted.in the subject line. Time for coffee.

Sometimes the hype of buying old heavy American iron is a little overdone, don't get me wrong, that's all I've got. I have a good friend who bought a pretty heavy old Bridgeport, it was clean and maintained, and the only thing he had the broker check was arbor runout. Turns out, it was used in the aircraft industry production for many years. If you are a half fast machinist...you know what stacking errors are, a little here, a tad there, times 4X...bottom line you have a machine that won't hold tolerance. Then it's sell it, or go into the money pit of a rebuild...contrary to what some people say...you don't just tighten the gibs in 10 minutes and do low tolerance work. All the big pieces wear on tapers, tight in the center of travel is too tight at the ends of travel and vice-versa.
Just sayin'.

Originally Posted by flintlocke

Sometimes the hype of buying old heavy American iron is a little overdone, don't get me wrong, that's all I've got. I have a good friend who bought a pretty heavy old Bridgeport, it was clean and maintained, and the only thing he had the broker check was arbor runout. Turns out, it was used in the aircraft industry production for many years. If you are a half fast machinist...you know what stacking errors are, a little here, a tad there, times 4X...bottom line you have a machine that won't hold tolerance. Then it's sell it, or go into the money pit of a rebuild...contrary to what some people say...you don't just tighten the gibs in 10 minutes and do low tolerance work. All the big pieces wear on tapers, tight in the center of travel is too tight at the ends of travel and vice-versa.
Just sayin'.

Some people can't do close tolerance work,....period.

Only manual milling machines I have used were full sized Bridgeports. Major overkill for my need. Good overkill, yet, overkill nonetheless. Used, unseen? I suppose I could tell my employer to FO, so I can travel the country in search of a used machine... The math doesn't pencil out... Hmmm.

Just make sure you go with a dovetail column on a small mill. Stay from the round columns, they move to much, under heavy work. My last mill was a Lagun brand knee mill, to big of foot print in the shop!

Originally Posted by MtnBoomer

Only manual milling machines I have used were full sized Bridgeports. Major overkill for my need. Good overkill, yet, overkill nonetheless. Used, unseen? I suppose I could tell my employer to FO, so I can travel the country in search of a used machine... The math doesn't pencil out... Hmmm.

The nice thing about buying anything to use is that if it turns out to not be what you had hoped you can sell it and buy something else. It sounds like you have used the knee mills so you know what to expect from them. Also if your milling never requires you to use an end mill over 1/2" you won't need a ton of machine to do a good job with. Then for drilling holes, like scope bases and such what you really need more than anything is getting the correct location. Keep us posted on what you decide. I've been in the tool and die since 1979 and am highly interested anytime someone needs help. I love metal work!

Jim 1611, Are there any names that jump into your mind considering the OP's requirements of a smaller machine that can still do quality work?

Thanks Jim. And others too.

Originally Posted by Heym06

Just make sure you go with a dovetail column on a small mill. Stay from the round columns, they move to much, under heavy work. My last mill was a Lagun brand knee mill, to big of foot print in the shop!

Absolutely. I have been looking at stuff for a long time prior to actually deciding what I really need for my interests. Round column bench mill - no, and that reality has taken me up up up in cost... Looking at a cherry big Jet knee mill Saturday, it's a lot, in more "ways" than one.

Looking at this set of particulars. 20" or more X-axis (maxing out the bench mills), comes with or can add at least X/Y DRO, R8, and a strong preference for electric variable speed with high top end for rapid aluminum milling and Z DRO.

A note, Taiwan ROC is not PRC. LOL

Originally Posted by flintlocke

You could do a lot worse than the big Jet on craigslist right now in Randal Wa. 5,000 asking. Clean.

Can't find it. Link? Thanks.

Originally Posted by flintlocke

Jim 1611, Are there any names that jump into your mind considering the OP's requirements of a smaller machine that can still do quality work?

Clausing made on a few years ago that's a good machine. I've seen some Enco machines that were okay but for light work. I guess what kind of work you want to do is going to matter the most. Do you want to drill holes or machine an octagon barrel. If it's the later then you'll want some weight in the machine. Here's a good site that I like to visit http://www.metalworkingfun.com/ There are quite a few hobby oriented guys on there and they really do some nice work. Again the type work you do matters. Millings cuts need to be smooth to be accurate and to get smooth cuts you need a machine that has a table that moves on ways that are smooth. Drilling holes not so much as the location is most important. Either require a minimum of spindle runout.

[Linked Image from imagizer.imageshack.com]

Here's a nice version of the clausing http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=84829&start=24

Here's a good thread to look through too http://www.metalworkingfun.com/showthread.php?tid=16

Originally Posted by MtnBoomer

Originally Posted by pal

Originally Posted by MtnBoomer

Originally Posted by pal

You are much better off buying a quality used machine with comprehensive tooling.

Yep, that will magically appear here in W Montana for my consideration... Check...

You don't have to believe in magic--just use your head. How do you think brand new Chinese machines get to W Montana? (They are shipped)

If you are simply trying to rationalize buying a cheap import, just admit it and settle for what you get. Same as buying from Harbor Freight. Or if you are a lazy shopper, or can't justify the time it takes to search the used machine market, that's ok too. But don't expect quality to magically appear for your consideration if you are unwilling to put in some effort.

Fuuckoff

No need to be a rude little beotch. Just trying to get you to see beyond the cheap imports. Once you buy any new bare machine you can dump a bunch of $ into tooling.

Originally Posted by pal

Originally Posted by MtnBoomer

Originally Posted by pal

Originally Posted by MtnBoomer

Originally Posted by pal

You are much better off buying a quality used machine with comprehensive tooling.

Yep, that will magically appear here in W Montana for my consideration... Check...

You don't have to believe in magic--just use your head. How do you think brand new Chinese machines get to W Montana? (They are shipped)

If you are simply trying to rationalize buying a cheap import, just admit it and settle for what you get. Same as buying from Harbor Freight. Or if you are a lazy shopper, or can't justify the time it takes to search the used machine market, that's ok too. But don't expect quality to magically appear for your consideration if you are unwilling to put in some effort.

Fuuckoff

No need to be a rude little beotch. Just trying to get you to see beyond the cheap imports. Once you buy any new bare machine you can dump a bunch of $ into tooling.

Fuuckoff.

Originally Posted by MtnBoomer

Thanks Jim. And others too.

Originally Posted by Heym06

Just make sure you go with a dovetail column on a small mill. Stay from the round columns, they move to much, under heavy work. My last mill was a Lagun brand knee mill, to big of foot print in the shop!

Absolutely. I have been looking at stuff for a long time prior to actually deciding what I really need for my interests. Round column bench mill - no, and that reality has taken me up up up in cost... Looking at a cherry big Jet knee mill Saturday, it's a lot, in more "ways" than one.

Looking at this set of particulars. 20" or more X-axis (maxing out the bench mills), comes with or can add at least X/Y DRO, R8, and a strong preference for electric variable speed with high top end for rapid aluminum milling and Z DRO.

A note, Taiwan ROC is not PRC. LOL

Agreed not the same!

My jet 9x49 is older and well built. I almost pulled the trigger on a Tree UVR and kick myself for it. A couple years later my jet popped up for $1500 and I drove 200 miles to grab it.

I have a Chinese enco at work and it is a pile of crap. The jet mills with the large "m" in the casting are good machines for the money.

Originally Posted by high_country_

My jet 9x49 is older and well built. I almost pulled the trigger on a Tree UVR and kick myself for it. A couple years later my jet popped up for $1500 and I drove 200 miles to grab it.

I have a Chinese enco at work and it is a pile of crap. The jet mills with the large "m" in the casting are good machines for the money.

I am looking at a 9x49 Jet Saturday with 2 axis factory DRO and powered X-feed, VSD, cherry condition, have the hauling ability and it will fit into the space, but it ain't going for $1500 LOL.. Limited to one day round trip for used searching and I drive about 50 hours a week already, time is money, and time off is golden.

Nice little intro piece from PM.
https://www.precisionmatthews.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Choosing-and-Using-a-Mill-3-9-2019.pdf

What are you planning on using it for? I told you in your other thread about how I came about getting my Bridgeport. I paid $1800 and another I want to say $270 to have it delivered to OK from CT.

I’ve run some of the newer imported machines and felt like most of the ones I used they tried to cover up deficiencies with added gadgetry. IE the spindle tolerance isn’t as good as an older American machine but it comes with all these accessories.

Of course if you’re making stuff out of plywood, don’t laugh I saw my buddy who’s the best machinist I’ve ever met cut a silhouette out of plywood on a Haas CNC, you don’t need the best there is. If you’re planning on making space shuttle parts you might want to hold out for the best you can afford.

A tip you probably already know being a trucker IIRC. I saved a ton of money on shipping due to the fact that at the time I worked at a place where I had access to a forklift and telehandler. Shipping was less than half since I was unloading the heavy assed thing. So if you know someone with a forklift it might save you some dough.

I sat it off on the shop driveway then at quitting time I loaded it onto my 12’ trailer and had a buddy follow to my place in the telehandler. Pulled up and opened the bay door on the shop. Forked it with the SkyTrac and shot the boom out inside the shop and set it down. Only had to bar it over about 2 feet to where I wanted to set it. I hate to think of the day I may have to move the heavy bastard to another shop.

Yah, the moving could get bad quick! I have a freight terminal for receiving, heavy trailers available for hauling, and the best of the precision shop equipment handling tools known to man, a backhoe, available!

Sweet. You’ll be sure to have the backhoe seat sucked up your ass the whole time knowing that one wrong move on the controls of this schitty wore out backhoe will destroy this heavy and expensive piece of machinery I’ve waited so long to get. No sweat!

Mtn Boomer, pm sent

Originally Posted by TheKid

Sweet. You’ll be sure to have the backhoe seat sucked up your ass the whole time knowing that one wrong move on the controls of this schitty wore out backhoe will destroy this heavy and expensive piece of machinery I’ve waited so long to get. No sweat!

No, it's a pretty decent backhoe! LOL

Take a 5/8nc eye bolt. You can pick it from the top. Nod the head and raise the table to hit CG. Otherwise 2 6' nylons work well.

I didn't listen to the audio, but, I'll take it.

I've got this 4 Axis Bridgeport that needs a home. I've got too much stuff and it all can't move with me to MI. It came out of the maintenance shop at a plant that made fish sticks. It's super clean. I don't think it was used much.

And there you go!

Kingston you don’t have an extra mill vise lying around you can’t move do you? I need one with a swivel base and I’d be happy to pay the freight if you make me a deal.

Some bitch that thing is big! (That's what she said)

Hey Boomer -

Important ...

You WILL want a power feed & a DRO... BOTH will cut down on the travel / work area you need so make sure you check the spec’s on how much they do, and buy a longer X, Y, and even Z travel than you think you need (they don’t stretch).

X becomes important if you are doing precision stock work and want to true a LONG surface.

Z travel for when you are using a long jig like an action jig to pin a recoil lug which requires you to drill the sucker.

Y becomes important if you get a bench mill and pan the head to cut an angle (vs. buying a knee mill) so you can only do an angle precisely along the Y travel

Best of luck
Spot

Originally Posted by TheKid

And there you go!

Kingston you don’t have an extra mill vise lying around you can’t move do you? I need one with a swivel base and I’d be happy to pay the freight if you make me a deal.

I have a few vises and a couple rotary tables. They are all in still in MA. You should come up for the sale. I've got two big buildings full of stuff.

Originally Posted by MtnBoomer

Some bitch that thing is big! (That's what she said)

It's basically the size of a Bridgeport plus the controls. I also have a Well-Index 745 that I think is going to go with me.

Originally Posted by kingston

Originally Posted by MtnBoomer

Some bitch that thing is big! (That's what she said)

It's basically the size of a Bridgeport plus the controls. I also have a Well-Index 745 that I think is going to go with me.

The controls are cool, for the day....

I'm having a hard time getting the 'local' Jet JTM-4VS outa my head. 9x49, vsd, x-drive...

Thanks for all the great input here and by PM folks. Had chances years ago to go into machining, guess it wasn't the 'way'.

Merry Christmas

Located a Taiwan built, 2 owner, J-head knee mill 2hp, 9x42 Frejoth for an attractive price at a doable distance. R8. Same M castings and factory as Jet, Acra, Delta etc. 1991 vintage.

Run three phase off single. VFD to the rescue.

Buying it Saturday.

Thanks guys.

Originally Posted by MtnBoomer

Originally Posted by pal

Originally Posted by MtnBoomer

Originally Posted by pal

Originally Posted by MtnBoomer

Originally Posted by pal

You are much better off buying a quality used machine with comprehensive tooling.

Yep, that will magically appear here in W Montana for my consideration... Check...

You don't have to believe in magic--just use your head. How do you think brand new Chinese machines get to W Montana? (They are shipped)

If you are simply trying to rationalize buying a cheap import, just admit it and settle for what you get. Same as buying from Harbor Freight. Or if you are a lazy shopper, or can't justify the time it takes to search the used machine market, that's ok too. But don't expect quality to magically appear for your consideration if you are unwilling to put in some effort.

Fuuckoff

No need to be a rude little beotch. Just trying to get you to see beyond the cheap imports. Once you buy any new bare machine you can dump a bunch of $ into tooling.

Fuuckoff.

Merry Christmas.