Reliability and ease of putting rounds in the magazine make my choice a Mauser. Next would be a Ruger 77. A Springfield would be third place unless it had 1903 bottom metal then it would be second.

Lee Enfield No4 Mk1.

It might be time for you to take a break from the web.

Uhhhh...

You are going with a super old probably not as accurate. I'll go with new and very accurate:


10 rounds in the box mag and super smooth bolt with flawless trigger.. Makes putting rounds where you want them easy as schidt..

I'd "fight" at a distance and you'd never hear me or see me...

C'mon deflave lighten up. Hah!

You have a portable concrete bench? Cool.

LOL

I like it. Too bad fighting often comprises of different distances. Can you put a bayonet on that rifle?

The best bolt gun to use in a fight would be the one you are the most familiar with.

Yeah?

We think alike. Might look ya up if chit gets western.




Take care, Willie

I have owned several of those, they were mostly kind of rough actions but I could see a good one being useful. And you can put a bayonet on it!

Well there is always room for door kickers.

If you don't have a 1 MOA bolt rifle , you are ineffective in war .

The Lee Enfield of course, but I don't have one now, so I'll go with the M-39 Finn. Anything that can't be loaded with a stripper clip or a handful like the Krags or a box mag can be hazardous to your health. Precision is wonderful...unless you are being flanked.

The one I still have ammo for!

Whatever those folks are using on Wild Boar Fever.

1/2 MOA is twice as effective.....

:sarcasm:

In the first two world wars rifles were not only for shooting but were made to be good clubs and spears. Some of them seemed way too long.

The Germans used a hunting rifle.

The Americans used a target rifle.

The British used a war rifle.

I still got a couple of 03's with receiver sights, amazing how fast the can reloaded with 5 rd strippers . mb

Dunno about "best" but these were pretty prolific.

And, at distance, you can keep the mag fully loaded, while feeding the chamber by hand, i.e., it comes equipped with a magazine cut off. So, when your position is in danger of being overrun, you can switch to feeding from your magazine.

How did you come up with that bullschit?

Junk.

Back in 1973 I had a nice 03A3 full military. Didn't have much use for it then and had just enough heart not to build a rifle out of it. Sold it for $150. which I thought at the time was a lot of money and I bought a new Remington model 700 BDL 270 from Gibsons for $134. plus tax. I think I was 17 when I bought it. My 30-06 was built from a Springfield someone had already started the "sporterize". By that they had chopped the stock and thinned it up. Still had the peep sight on it. I gave $75. for it in 1979. I notice no mention of the model 700.

I have heard that since I was a kid, and I am an old grandpa now.

Seriously, forget the top load, or stripper clip stuff of 80 years ago or what Cooper preached 40 years ago.

The AICS mag fed rifles of modern tactical & sniper competition pretty much rule in capacity or speed in reloading.

Pure nonsense.

Mauser with a bunch of stripper clips

03A3's are impossible to beat.

Yep, it's an old saw about the three nation's battle rifles. Goes way back. Not sure if it's attributed to anyone in particular.

One you familiar with and can shoot well... What the fuqk is a 'deflave' anyway?

Without a doubt that was a battle rifle. What is your idea of a do all rifle?

Enfield is the best for rate of fire and on balance everywhere else.

I like mine.

Remington 700 with the original trigger. Point it at the enemy and just keep racking the action.

Unless you're a sniper, why in hell would you go with a bolt action in a fight? Unless it is heavy enough to club a bunch of dudes to their doom while you're trying to reload ..... stupid question IMO....

^ This

Rather use my Garand with a bunch of enbloc clips

I don't think the rifle has that much to do with it. Hathcock did pretty well...and all he had was a Winchester.

Can you get set up with them using a Springfield? To me the 03A3 follower was the worst in WWII. The 03 bottom metal was great. I would be happy to upgrade my 03A3 to a AICS system.

I wouldn’t trust any modern hunting rifle in any battle situation other than limited sniping. You might fire a couple hundred rounds in an afternoon in an actual battle. I suspect most of our modern hunting bolt actions would schit the bed doing that.

They should throw in some recoil from actual ammunition and re-do the video. A target would be interesting, as well.

That was a really stupid comment.

Are you stupid?

Spoken like a man who has never had a Remington 700 bolt handle come off in his hand.

You need to go hit those garage sale beauties some more and leave the talking to the adults.

I was thinking the same thing. Blanks won't be all that effective.

Yep. I can dry-fire the hell out of my bolt action rifles. Doesn't mean [bleep] on a target.

I'm pretty sure my experience with 700's exceeds yours.

By 100X's.

LOL

He has two first names.......just saying....

If I had to pick one I currently own I would choose my Sako Safari Grade in 300 Win Mag quality built rifle and the quarter rib rear sight and hooded front sight are very stout and accurate.

Be sure to have a sturdy bayonet.

Merkel Helix Alpinist the one guy uses

Maybe, but you still suck at golf and are into casual buggery on the back nine.

I've got a lot of bolt guns. I figure my 10-22 would see the most use.

I f I HAD to pick a bolt gun to fight with it would probably be a Ruger Gunsite carbine. Realistically it wouldn't matter much, using a bolt gun in a real fight would most likely result in your death.

Curious BSA is that a Tikka T3x with a 10rd Tikka mag?? I like it.

I think it would be better than nothing but yes in the world of very reliable assault rifles continuous contact would be dangerous.

Lee-Enfield Jungle Carbine.

A bolt gun in a fluid fire and manuver fight????
With wpn systems available in this day and age to both sides....

Stay in overwatch dude and cover our azz,s when ya can....

We will call ya up when the obj is secured.........

Well vetted AR. Quality red dot sight. Back up irons. Lots of mags.

What?

They have bolts!

Yep and there are how many millions of them out there? I will bet some of them get in the news pretty soon.

Damn right door kickers are the real bad a$$es.

You're all talk in shooting, and golf.

Considering the average age of the posters on this thread, I think coronary failure would be a bigger concern than stripper vs mag fed. for continuity of fire.

Not reading the whole mess after seeing page one. Best of any gun in a fight is the one I’m holding.

I personally like what a Contractor said at my place when he met my Brother “That Guy is Scary as F***. He looks like he’d just rip my arms off and beat me to death with them if you asked him too”. That was after said Contractor got his “Big” chainsaw stuck dropping oaks over my place rather than use mine and my brother took a BFH, swung it like a kids wiggle ball bat, and shot the chainsaw/Wedge/whatever else 100 ft across the yard while the tree dropped in the lane.


My comment “Imagine if you dropped that on my house” LoL.

My point in the prolonged dialogue, shooting pistol matches ai saw a old guy that looked half crippled clear a stage with multiple reloads before I could blink in half the time of his closest competitor. I’d never witnessed anything close. Met a guy at a private 1400 yd range who was all of 140 lbs. Wuantifo guys used the place a lot. A SWAT team or some such group was shooting too. This guy was solo and just “visiting” but new my buddy who brought me there for instruction. My buddy was Team USA. This guy looked like he’d not slept in a few years and my only responses where look down and yes sir.


I’ve seen some expensive “toys” fielded badly. I’ve seen a 700p set a new record at Butner or similar. As some here say “It’s the Indian not the arrow” or whatever that saying is.

My brother I’d run from if he picked up a sharp stick or butter knife. Some others could have the latest and greatest whiz bang self dialing whatever and I’d be ok at 50 yards.


All that Verbose BS said, I like a Pre-64 .308 myself but then I’m the guy that “Innovates” companies but sticks with the best design I know regardless of age. To my leviathan brain, I like that action.

I would think a pump to be faster than even a straight pull bolt rig

My SKS has a bolt. I'd pick that rifle over all others.

Ha Ha Ha cheerful bastard.

Masterfully written. Thanks.

I’m also probably considered a “Millenial” or some nonsense graduating, would have anyway, in 2000. A pretty actress/Model to an idiot 17 yo is a seemingly unavoidable temptation.


I’ll throw in I voted Trump, feel like I’ve worked for everything I have after getting some favorable goodwill, and agree with Deflave AND Whoever is on the other side at this moment, Heck I even find some of the hidden treasures in Sticks stuff where I can. Guess I’m one of those Deplorables that finds value in most people here.

Hard not too, most here are 2x my age and 4x as smart.

Nothing wrong with the right bolt gun. For porpoises of this discussion I'd choose a gas operated bolt rifle...

Would look like John Candy in Stripes...",gasp...gasp...,just wait ....gasp ......a minute...gasp... gasp".

Seriously? I bought this Scout in 6.5 manbun. I have 3, 5, 6, & 10 round mags. Good ones. I trimmed the trigger, but the big deal was a slather of 800 grit Clover lapping compound in the action & cycled for a day or two & then cleaned.
Old school Mauser slick & smooth with a 10 round mag that can be changed in tenths of a second. What pro practiced in the Mauser & mag change, could be beat by another pro practiced in another platform with stripper clips? A toss up?

I've said this many times but never hear.

Been in some seriouse "dust ups".

2 things I never wished for when it got real.

1: a smaller gun

2: less ammo

Best advice in the thread.

It prevents that all too common occurrence where a soldier has the most trigger time on, say, a Remington 700 but somehow ends up with, say, a Savage 110 and he is shouting over the din of the enemy's machine gun fire: "How do I even operate this thing?". You, more familiar with the Savage 110's controls, are miming how to pull its trigger to make it fire, which end the bullets come out of, how to operate its action by manipulating the bolt.

You watch in horror as he is vaporized by a rocket from a passing helicopter, never having effectively fought.

If I had to defend life and liberty short term, I’d go gas gun. There’s probably a half a dozen nuclear physicists or what not here that have argued for piston, old school $h!t stomper, whatever. Point Blank a shotty or CZ 75 please, longer range AR platform, extended range indefinite Pre-64 in a readily available cartridge, survival forever/no enemies a simple 452 Scout with slow target ammo.

This is one silly-assed thread.

Given the lack of decorum in some cases, I would think hypertension.

Shouldn't you be guarding the fences of FaceFugk?

LOL

Well now I feel smart, someone said the same.... don’t worry... ‘Flave.. Ren..Slum.. anyone else over 40 will be along presently to correct my thinking LoL.

Funny thing, neighbor is pretty prepared so to speak. Not a Prepper but grew up in a remote part of PA and fairly intelligent guy. I just dropped off a case of Rimfire for him to “bridge the gap”


As my much smarter wife says “Those in 3rd world countries won’t even notice a change”

Ok I just skimmed through this nonsense...... and my conclusion is a Krag is cool and obviously effective... as displayed by Flave. Granted this wasn't battle but he knows a thing or two about battle rifles...




Now all this talk about Nagants and Tikka's is pure horse schit...... Me being a Mauser guy and being loyal to the design, choose 98 Mouser.... here is a parts gun I threw together, battle rifle was not on my mind when I put this together but on reflection I suspect this would work just fine. Peep sights , 5 round magazine, 338-06, laminate stock.... yep this would work....



Oh and Springfield..... naaa..... inferior copy of the Mouser

Bolt action shotgun if it just had to be a bolt action.

Sorry... cancelled all social media, what 6 months ago?

This is my one and only. You're welcome.

Modern , Ruger scout , oldie , K-31
Kenneth

Oh.

LOL

I use to shoot VMBAR matches and got to shoot all of the old bolt guns. My favorite by a far was the Schmidt-Rubin K-31. Nowadays it would be a Tikka T3. Mag fed, dead nuts reliable, accurate, can shoot hundreds of rounds/day W/out the bolt handle coming off.


mike r

Krags are cool, indeed. They were, apparently, outclassed by the Mauser (7mm) in Cuba, though.

The Russians are coming?

Ha ha, and leave the dolphins out of the discussion please...

WOLVERINES........

irfubar, diggin that "frankin mauser"!

Wish I wasn't a terminal lefty or I'd have a closet full.

Who’s the fat chick with the dink and spray on tan?

Cant be ‘Flave, that’s not a lizard and a Nitro Piston .177

Why would you purposely take a bolt gun to a fight?

The U.S. Army recognized the value of the auto-loader in combat during WW1 via the Pedersen Device and that was over 100 years ago.

If I'm going to a gun fight that I can plan for, I hope to have an AR and a lot of loaded 30-round magazines in my kit.

Ruger American for the win......In .270 Leopard to keep Ingwe happy

You and 'flave have been eclipsed by gremcat. Loyalties are fragile and subject to change.



mike r

Got a lot better stuff for battle. But if all I had left was my Ishapore Enfield .308, you better just pass me on by. Sucker is accurate, it’s been lightened up some, and I can run it well. 12 round mag fed, and I have a few extras. Irons are effective. Flip that bolt and it comes back almost on its own, by the time rifle comes back down, a round is chambered, ready to go again. For short of a human wave attack, It would hold its own.

That said, The FN FAL is far and away a better combat arm.

The thought experiment assumes you have no other choice. So, the apocalypse happened. You're unarmed. You find an abandoned farm house, and inside there's an extensive collection of bolt guns, along with appropriate ammo. Which one?

Dude!
8mm way over penetrates...Germans proved it.

Whaat? gremcat and his Rooger American..... crap, and I thought Tikkers were bad... those Roogers are junk, barely reliable enough for varmints.... Mouser for the win!

I wouldn't quote JeffO if I was you.....

In that scenario, you pick the most accurate rifle, which means a Remington or a Savage. Hopefully, they have a Remington. It's not like you're gonna impress the enemy with novel bullshit.

OUch...That hurt!

Like the characters in Cormac McCarthy's book THE ROAD?

All variables being equal, I'd pick the rifle that had the most ammo that was powerful enough to kill whatever I might need to kill.

Sorry buddy.... this place can get a little rough at times.... now atone and admit Mouser is best!

Whichever rifle can get me better stuff for fighting.

Never underestimate battlefield recovery.

WOLVERINES!!!!!!!!!!

303 lee Enfield

I'm starting my shrine to Peter Paul von Mauser as I type this.

Shrine or not, you are correct though. The M98 be the ticket.
Hell, I'd even take m96/m38 if set up to my liking and enough 6.5 swede 140 gr.s for the duration.

OK OK

I an all out, full retard, Red Dawn scenario.

Small, light, suppressed 22 rifle.

You can feed yourself and procure more appropriate weapons, demo, comms, transport etc. and remain "discreet".

Think of it as an expanded version of the WWII Liberator pistol. The gun to get a gun.

Well, overlooked for five pages?

Something that keeps the fight a thousand yards away.

Pick your brand & caliber.

I actually watched 7 Ghille suits get grabbed of the shelf at Sportsmans Warehouse during the first day of one of the Obama panics.

If the Germans weren't such evil fuucktards they would have won the war with that rifle....

Oh mine, the Ruger GSR gets the nod.

The shooter did good work with a bolt .22 lr.

Good Indians just need arrows. Any decent arrow will do.

Obviously using abolt gun for a short range fire fight against opponents armed with semi-auto cnterfires is generalyy a losing proposition. I f you are running more power than the opponents that can help but not much.

Of the bolt guns I own at the moment, the likely candidate would be my Ruger Gunsite Scout. I have several magazines and that woul be useful in maintaining a volume of fire for a time. Enough for say a 180 round loadout would be burdensome though.

That said, magazines are bulky and eventually need filled. Therein lies a rub. Filling the metal GSR mags is tedious at best, the plastic ones are much easier. If I had a setup where I could use stripper clps with my GSR (and there may be one) it would be helpful in maintaining avolume of fire.

It is much easier to carry stripper clips to refill firearms than loose ammo, they take relatively little space and are very light weight.

While I don't have a Springfield '03 I do have a prewar M70 Standard Grade that has the clip slot and receiver sights. It could be used as well. I actually shoot it a good bit better than the GSR with iron sights.

Thanks for the fun.
This is kind of like a discussion like: Which can you fire the most aimed rounds (12 in bull at 25 yards. only bullseyes count). out of in thirty minutes? - A semi auto 9mm with three 15 round magazines andthe remainder loose. OR a 7 shot .357 mag revolver (loaded with .38 Special +P starting with three 7 shot speedloaders speedloaders, three ten round speed dtrips and the remaining ammo loose. That is to say, something to pass the time.

The model 721 Remington also had the stripper clip provision. They actually came with a low comb stock that works very well with open sights. This is interesting to talk about.

Hah! You will change your tune when the G-cat shows up w/ his brother...and the hammer. He'll knock your chainsaw 100', w/ you attached.


mike r

A bolt gun in the right circumstances would work okay to give you an opportunity to upgrade with the enemy's weapons.

No argument there.
They blew it with Hitler. I've always thought the Austrian President missed a prescient moment to chuck that psycho paper hangar off the balcony of the villa they met at for the surrender of Austria.

I have an 03 Springfield MKI based "scout rifle" that I've used for 95% of my hunting and shooting for the better part of 27 yrs. and its been a great firearm, spoiled me on old school bolt guns, but will replace it with m98 here soon.

The 98 is just a better design, albeit a little heavier.

Your atonement is duly noted.... all is forgiven..

Praise be to Maufubar the enlightened one!

These would be last ditch for a gun fight.
But getting hit with the hunting rounds used in em would suck

You’d likely shiiit and fall back in it too.

the one you shoot the best, simple.

Whatever you have the most ammo for and are the most proficient with

Bring stuff similar to these to a gunfight.
Do something about the finish on the chromed mexican pimped out krink though.
Too much bling.....
LOL!!!

I agree that this is a silly thread. Nobody has said the winner and you wouldn't think of it unless you had one. The fact that they have many moving parts aside, they have five rounds in their rotary mag and they come out very quickly.

of course, I'd use the AR first.

This was passable for a Gunfight to herman the german in WW2
But waaaaaay inferior to the M1.

GTG for a gunfight till I sent it down the road.

I'm not gonna read all 14 pages right now, but after ww1 it was said, (paraphrasing) The Americans built the best target rifle, the Germans built the best hunting rifle, and the Brits built the best battle rifle!

They liked the MG34, also. It's not inferior to much either then or now.

Gunfight???
Yay or nay??
8 clicks up on elevation???
Make it 250 300 yd hold on the center of the chest rig.
Wouldnt wanta get hit with the hunting ammo it uses either.
3 shots ?????
I'm just being a jerk guys and need inclusion in this thread to fill my social butterfly needs right now.

LOL!!!

42 was a good MG also.

The winner will have a Leupold on top.

Book it.

That would be; Send it.

Buddy of mine has one. A no schit wonder, it is. Good thing he bought tons, literally, of 8mm when it was dirt cheap. That sucker can run through it like few other weapons.

+1

Booked.

I would have to say anything putting a good hunting bullet through any part of any body part is going take someone out of the fight. Just remember, we just have to get at least two of them for everyone of us and the fight gets over PDQ.

The only quicker way to die is to attempt to stand toe to toe with an AR15 against an organized force.

Shoot and run, shoot and run........

Absolutely, the average number of rounds/casualty in Viet Nam was somewhere around 1/250,000. Nothing like an AR to shoot lots of bullets.

Dude!
8mm way over penetrates...Germans proved it.[/quote]

You go could stand in front of one dumb fuqk... Test that 'penetration' Dude!

hurt feelings alert!

Premier 36x boosted no less. See through rings too..

I built (2) Krags last year, one restoration and one highly modified 25 Krag Ackley sporter. The single bolt lug limits the long term pressure to 30-40 Krag max average pressure 40000 cup = ~ 43,555 psi. That is not good enough for long range with MY limited skills.


25KA with Bartlein barrel, with modified scope mount to get scope close to over the boreline.

very cool Krag.

If any of you really are thinking of going to a modern battle with a bolt rifle I would suggest a 22lr, so you can go hunt rabbits 'til all of the other clowns have finished killing each other.

At least you would still be alive and reasonably well fed.


I am assuming winter has really set in and some of you have taken to scratching at the walls?

I’m surprised it took 5 pages for someone to post this! I’d take Patrick Swayze’s Ruger 77 ultralight in 308!

Sycamore,

Good call on not discussing rifles.

LOL

This is the most Texas schit I have read in a while.

LOL

Without a doubt...

Except by an SMLE...

And at 300 yards.... Neither an 03 or a 98 can even come close...

Good gun.

But not as good as an 03A3.

Is the 03 more accurate? probably yes. Is the 03 a stronger, better action, yes. Is the 03's caliber superior to the 303? undoubtedly. Is the o3 a better combat rifle when it comes to reliability? even. But as a combat rifle, not even close and the Germans agreed. Refer to the first German encounter with the BEF in Belgium in 1914. fascinating story on the fast AND accurate rates of fire the Brits put out.. BTW, there are also literally dozens of videos out there on comparing these rifles and it really leaves no doubt..

I love everything about an 03a3 except that skinny front sight. Sometimes it’s a good thing , sometimes not.

The best for me would be the M700 that I’ve carried for the last 40 years.

OK, jorge.

Since you're going to make me say it I'll just say it.

I hate the English. Therefore, the 03A3 is better.

Yup.

This one would work.

If it wasn't English.

No wonder I dislike you so..

Nice one!

The Enfield. Except for the ammo re-supply thing.

Found it in Homestead of all places.

I paid $400 or $450. Can't remember exactly.

The way I heard it back in the 70s, in reference to WW I:
Germany took to war the best hunting rifle in the world.
America took to war the best target rifle in the world.
The Brits brought the best battle rifle.

100 years later, I still do not like to shoot the cock on close
Brit 303. But it is a well known fact that British troops did attain the fastest volley fire with their rifles.

As I remember, the tanker carbine I hunted with for a couple years would actually function with 13 plus one. But it has been 35 years.

It was also the only one of the war with a detachable magazine. It would have been a simple matter to scrounge up two or three spare mags on the battle field and carry them in your pockets.

Then, of course WW II came along and America introduced the greatest battle implement known to man.

What a ridiculously ill defined topic of discussion. A fight is not a fight is not a fight.

Like.

Civilians taking up arms against government forces is assuredly a quick route to suicide no matter the weapon of choice.


Firing upon modern liberals will rapidly result in conflict with government forces

LOL

Where is the empty whiskey bottle?

We left it in your mom's ass.

Krag .. with a bayonet.

Just to be different--the Steyr Scout. I don't like the long single stack mag of the Ruger Scout.

I like the M39 and I own one, a VKT. But, nothing beats the Swedish Mauser.

270 winchester

The only bolt gun I would consider in a battle is 50 BMG. Only because it is hard to hide from a 50 cal AP round.

Jeff would be proud.

From that cat I told ya about ?????

My opinion the Remington and Savage unless significantly modified are much less capable than a Mauser, Springfield or Mosin. I mean if all you are going to get caught up in is sniping and running then maybe but otherwise the stock SA Remington is a pain to quickly load the stock magazine, the older staggered magazine Savages much better than the centerfeeds. There is usually more to it than sniping and running. Beyond that saying the average Remington is significantly more accurate than anything else and enough to make a difference is ludicrous.

So you are choosing servitude over freedom? And you live in Idaho? You seem to miss the point entirely. What percentage of government forces are going to engage civilians they may be related to? You realize that by sheer mass in this country armed citizens represent an impressive force.

“Strike hard who cares - shoot straight who can,
The odds are on the cheaper man"

You stole it.

Which was the idea behind the Second Amendment. I.e., no national army could stand up to any significant percentage of an armed populous. See, e.g., Federalist No. 46.

Any bolt gun you can shoot .556 in?

You can single-load a Remington by dropping one in the open action and closing the bolt. Any rifle that doesn't REQUIRE magazine-feeding would be my preference.

That said, in this hypothetical fight, a bolt rifle is only going to be a component in an effective battle plan, as the bolt gun will work best to engage those with semi-autos BEFORE they can effectively engage. Seems to me that a scoped hunting rifle would work best to engage distant targets from a high place, or from cover, the same way that rifles were used effectively in the other major wars on this continent against muskets. And just like fighting against a bunch of men with muskets, a few guys with semi-autos can throw a lot of bullets out there, but not necessarily have significant effect against a distant single target.

The krag sucked as a military service rifle and we paid for it in the Spanish American War and the Boxer Rebellion is China. Glacially slow reloading process..

As someone suggested, fast reloading is important.

1. 03A3 Springfield. It has a clip slot.

2. Krag carbine from 1892. I believe the feds don’t even classify pre 1900 stuff as firearms.

My only experience is on the square range, across the course 2,3 and 600yd NRA/national match with a R700 clip slotted in a homemade ugly adjustable stock. Open match sights.
I managed to make HM with it. Losing HM but I did get the card.
The bolt handle didn't even fall off.
I did get thrashed regularly by another shooter using a Tikka action with mags. He could probably win with a cork gun though.
Not to mention the 18yr old eagle eye with what was the service rifle back then, cleaning the 200 & 300yd lines.
Never had one of those 6x6 ft targets shoot back though. I'd probably pick something else if that was the case.

BINGO
friend of mine in austria sniper in arm y.
also shoots hi power.
in the land of mausers they prefer the enfield, or the 1917 springfield.
as to accuracy i have a heavily reworked p14 that will shoot sub moa all day long.

Ever own one? Much faster than 700s, model 70s, or other modern bolt actions. But clip fed rifles were faster.

...and what happened to Clark. I miss that guy.

Assuming you have the ammo for it, Schmidt-Rubin K31. Far quicker cycling than a standard bolt action and an effective cartridge out to sufficient distances to be used at long range.

Yep, in theory. But never actually battle proven.

With all this chest thumping about whos' platform is best it appears there needs to be a friendly competition with said firestick to prove it.

BINGO
friend of mine in austria sniper in arm y.
also shoots hi power.
in the land of mausers they prefer the enfield, or the 1917 springfield.
as to accuracy i have a heavily reworked p14 that will shoot sub moa all day long.


actually, he stole that. been around for years.

You can chuck a single rnd into crf Mausers and Springfields just as easy as a remmy, done it many times.

Back in the day of cheap surplus ammo, I put about 2k of surplus Yugo 8mm down range in the space of a summer. I got pretty proficient with a Mauser. Still, if forced to choose a bolt, I would choose an SMLE.

In the dirt of the trenches and in the days of unreliable and inconsistent brass, the camming action of the cock on opening Mauser was arguably superior as far as reliability went. By WW II, brass was better and conditions weren’t so continually awful as they had been in the first war and the SMLE would have been the better choice.

I know. but I was responding to the critique of the Remington's stock magazine. The magazine only comes into play until it is empty, then I want to be able to drop one at a time in.

No desire to, all one needs to do is READ accounts on how bad the Krags SUCKED at San Juan and Kettle Hills and then again I don't consider a model 70 and especially a pos 700 as "fighting rifles". The Lee Enfield was not only also clip fed but the cock on closing is faster than the Mauser and 03 (a plagiarized 98 anyway) AND it held TWICE the number of rounds. This is like a no brainer folks..

I wouldn’t use any modern bolt action designed to fire, maybe two or three thousand rounds in a lifetime over an actual battle rifle designed to be used and abused by an 18 year old soldier firing hundreds of rounds in a single day.

You've got the ammo to feed at least one SMLE? Enough to feed several? We aren't going into "battle" against some guys in different uniforms on a battlefield. Look at the past. A guy hiding with a single shot muzzle loading rifle could have quite a destructive effect on a whole company of musket carriers. You adapt your tactics to your weapon. An effective bolt gun in this instance looks a lot more like a typical deer rifle today than a battle rifle of over a century ago.

Jeez, a last ditch Type 99 Arisaka and 12 rounds of 7.7 Norma ammo loaded in 1962, with a little patience and perseverance , will get you the rifle you need.

I haven't read the whole post but it seems that Alvin York did very well with an 03, or maybe it was an 03a3 i do not know.

He had germans shooting at him with machine guns so he was outgunned. It is possible that the best shot may have the advantage.

Some millennial with a man bun sitting at a computer terminal will drone the fug out a 5 acre radius wherever you are.

The A3 didn't appear till after WWI. York could have used an 03 Springfield, but he actually used an M1917 Enfield, despite what was depicted in the movie.

I remember a few years ago there was a big push on social media to have a big shotgun handy to bring down the smaller drones.

Yeah. That tiny little problem rearing its head..

Now go try to find brass.


Lol.

Everybody here seems to be on Enfields vs. O3A3. Have you guys ever ran a Mannlicher? They run like merde through a goose. Those Greek Mannlichers Bredas( make in Austria but say Italian) are still alive and well. The Improved 52 in 06 and you can send rounds accurately down range. It is a extremely accurate carbine that is handy.

100% WILL engage outlaws and terrorists.

The elected government gets to assign the labels.

Military and police forces will not abandon their duties until their wives and children are home sick and starving.

Yes, next question...

OH yeah, I have a 1904 Steyr Mannlicher 8x57, that compares favorably...maybe beats the 6.5 Norwegian Krag for speed and equal smoothness of operation. The 5 round packet is faster and more fumble free than any stripper clip.

Yes, next question...


Find us a "Mad Minute" video with a Mannlicher and we'll talk...

Okay, next question: when are you going to get off your ass and fulfill your oath?

I have no f ucking idea as to what you are talking about, especially if it's some kind of kook angle..

LOL

WTF are you going to do with your Tuesday?

That is the dumbest thing I have ever read. Many of us put hundreds of rounds per day through modern rifles, until the bore is worn out. Then you rebarrel and do it again.

The steel used in the action and barrels of today's rifles is far superior to that of 100 or 80 years ago.

If you want a modern rifle to last like an Enfield Mk III, load your ammo to 1930 303 British pressure levels.

Mannlicher-Schoenauer. Yes what a sweet little rifle. Effective on a 19'th century battle field.

I had a 6.5x54 in the closet, 160 gr RN at 2200 fps. 30-30 equivalent. I was hoping to find an application for that beautiful rotary mag. But a burglar got away with the rifle in 1984. He was probably disappointed to pack it all the way to Mexico, only to find it was worth about 50 cents as scrap iron.

one must admit the 03 and 03a3 "borrowed certain aspects from the mauser
i would not want to admit how many springfields i own. more than one. am fond of them.
however,
the enfield was faster to fire
held more rounds
had adjustible to fit stocks
i have grown to love them

Yes, next question...


Find us a "Mad Minute" video with a Mannlicher and we'll talk...
[/quote]


If you have ever run one you would know. They have the smoothest actions out there. Must be some kind of reason that they were used for Tigers, and Lions and oh my! I have heard that the Lee Speeds were fast. However, my two mannlichers run faster than any of my other rifles- by a lot.

i am a military collector so of course i own more than one krag, and love them.
about the smoothest action you will ever run across.
but while not slow to reload, clips were faster.

If you have ever run one you would know. They have the smoothest actions out there. Must be some kind of reason that they were used for Tigers, and Lions and oh my! I have heard that the Lee Speeds were fast. However, my two mannlichers run faster than any of my other rifles- by a lot.[/quote]

I have a beautiful one and its for sale at Sportsmanslegacy.com. You are 100% correct it is a very smooth action indeed, maybe even as fast as the SMLEs, but they only hold five rounds to the Enfield's ten and in one minute, no way a Mannlicher or ANY OTHER bolt rifle can come close to 38 rounds/minute.

somebody metioned the finnish mosin, a mighty fine rifle.
should look at the swiss k31.
just as good as the finnish, or the swedish or any of them.

There are a host of videos out there testing the speed of all those rifles, including the M/S actions as well as the Swis K31 and aside from the SMLE's ten round capacity, the position of the trigger and the bolt, length of the stock, etc were all factors. There is one video on the K31 I just saw and what slows it down a LOT was the length of the bolt pull as the shooter had to take his face out of the way in order to work the bolt.

Get ready for Part 2...

Jorge, I don't think we knew, or ignored how to utilize the Krag. I don't know how to make links..but go to Youtube (if you're not on strike), "Stangskyting DFS 1986". Looks like to me it even shames the Lee Enfield maybe.

The best fighting bolt action made for military use in the last 100 years may just be the SMLE because it's super reliable (close to the Mauser) and holds 10 rounds and also loads with clips for faster re-loads.
But for today getting a lot of 303 brit ammo is a bit hard to do, and getting the clips to load from is even harder.

So if I were to buy a rifle made today as a fighting arm, I would get a Mossberg MVP in 308. The reason is that it's made to scope, feeds from 20 round AR10 or M14 mags and is very accurate. I still have a bit of dis-trust for it's small T-Head extractor, but so fart I have yet to see one break in the 308 modes. (I have replaced 2 in their 5.56 MVPS so far) It may be a good idea to buy 1-2 extras including springs and ball-bearings in case one did, but having one fail you in a fight may mean you never get a chance to make the repair.

I do own one myself and I have to give it high marks for accuracy and so far, it's been 100% reliable. I have killed deer antelope and elk with it. I dislike the fact the safety didn't lock the bolt down, but I made a modification to my rifle so it now does lock the bolt closed. I wish Mossberg would do that too, but they are afraid of lawyers and want to have guns that can be unloaded while still "on safe"

But if I wanted to fight with such a rifle I can get mag pouches that fit AR10 mags and carry as many as I can, at 20 or 25 rounds each and reloading 20 in the MVP is about 3 times faster then loading 10 in the SMLE.

Fighting arms need to be viewed in an over-view, not just feature by feature. It's likely that if we looked simply at firepower, in the "era of bolt action combat", the SMLE had no competition. For accuracy, the M31 Swiss, the American 1903 and the Swedish M96 Mausers are top contenders. For ease of operation the SMLE and the 1903 are both at the top of the heap. For gravity-like reliability the Mauser 98 is King. But compared to an MVP all are harder to MAKE HITS WITH simply because the new Mossberg has a much better feeling trigger and will have a scope. Scopes are the single most important step forward in combat accuracy in the history of firearms in the last 150 years of use. The Mosin Nagant, the SMLE sniper version, the Mauser 98 and the Springfield 1903-A4 all have been scoped some going back to WW1, but when scoped all of them gave up ease of reloading. So the ability to snipe was good but to use them in infantry combat was to take a step backwards.

I would include the Ruger Scout in the same category and have high praise for it's action and super good extractor, but they way they forced it's users to use a single stack 10 round mag that is as large in profile as a 20 round, AND then charging 4X more for one mag then you can buy an AR10 20 round mag for, makes me not recommend the Ruger as highly as the Mossberg. Sure you can carry as much ammo in 10s and you can in 20s, but at near $100 per mag compared to $23 per mag and also cut mag capacity in half seems to be a very ill-conceived idea on Ruger's part.

But I do believe the action, safety and trigger on the Ruger to be superior to the Mossberg.

For fighting I have to look at the ease of actually fielding and using the weapons and I like the Ruger a lot, but for their stupid 10 round mag and it's high cost.

For such a weapon you should think of the weapon system, not just the weapon itself, and if you can afford to buy the rifle, scope, ammo, sling, mounts and enough magazines to last you 40 years including factoring loss and damage of those mags in that 40 year time frame, and if you can buy the whole system all at one time the Ruger would beat the Mossberg, but at about 3X the cost . If cost were no object the Ruger will beat the Mossberg, but it's going to come in a LOT higher as a "lifetime investment package." So it depends on who is buying. A Mossberg is going to allow a lot more shooting at a given cost then the Ruger by saving $80 per mag, and if we think 20 mags is a reasonable number to mate to one rifle for a lifetime of use including use in war we see an addition of $75 per mag over the cost of the mags that go in the Mossberg. 20 Ruger mags carry the same amount of ammo as 10 Mossberg mags (AR10 mags) So the Mossberg will need about $125-4140 to set it up for life in mags. The Ruger will require 20X $100 which is $2,000 worth of mags to do the same job. So the mags can cost as much as the gun or close to it.
Best for combat means BEST and not BEST VALUE. So maybe the BEST would be the Ruger Scout.
But the Best one to get for value and actual use may be the Mossberg MVP. And if you don't mind a 223, the MVP in that caliber may be worth a look too, but for the rather frail "flapper" on the bottom of the bolt head and the very small T-head extractors it uses. For me I don't trust the 223s, but the 308s I own and have seen used around here have all be OK.

Ammo expenditure was much less in the bolt action days. You might want to do a search of what standard ammo loadout was in those days.

Note:
I just saw Ruger has listed their 10 round mags for "only" $75 each now. So a lifetime supply of mags would not be $2000. It will "only" be $1500.

I'll keep my Mossberg. It's AR10 mags I already have and I got them on sale for $19 each, so I got the whole lot (7) for under $140. A savings of about $1360 over what the Ruger would have cost for the same capacity. My rifle and scope together didn't cost $1360

Because resupply was impossible and units never carried stores of extra ammo.

Yes, but you are clearly full of schit and a semi high functioning retard.

You are still correct that the AICS type mags are more cost & stocking for the log run makes a really good point.

But let it be noted that the all metal AICS type 10 rounders can be had for closer to $60 each, MDT makes a 10 round polymer for $40, And, 10 round Magpuls can be had for $35. Some like polymer, some don't. The handy 5 round Magpuls for about $30 have a 90 second mod that allows them to hold 6. Speaking of .308 case size cartridges in this case.

TAG

Exactly.......learn to shoot......

In eight hours at Waterloo on January 15,1815 a mere handful of English soldiers killed more of their enemy with the Brown Bess than the armies of the whole British Empire ever did in any 24 hours in either World War

The 03A3 vs Lee was getting stale.....

IMNSHO if you are thinking bolt gun youve already lost

Biden cand Kerry could shoot that drone with their O/U shotty

So, that only leaves me with four times your intelligence and ten times your experience.

How many rounds do you think those WW I battle rifles actually fired before they got sent back to the armory?

How many modern rifles have YOU managed to wear out or break?

Yawn....why don’t you brag on your IQ some more...lol

The record for the SMLE is 38 rounds/minute. The Krag can't touch that pure and simple.

PS: I don't get the "strike" comment, but never mind.

As far as capacity and ruggedness I'd agree. Speed and accuracy would fall to the straight bolt Mauser 98.

Going back to the armory for failure from overuse, probably almost none. Simply because they didn't get fired that much. Going back because the soldier was dead or seriously injured, a good bit. The highest battle casualty rate was caused by artillery fire. Seconded by machine gun fire. Direct rifle fire, not all that much.

A Lee Enfield can be fired *much* faster than a 98. Lee Enfields are also plenty accurate.

Ain't bragging. IQ is about 100 maybe a bit above.

Am feeling the pity for your misfortune. Do you need help tying your shoelaces? Or have you switched to Velcro tennis shoes.

I read many years (1978?) ago (I think in Sierra #3) that the bore of an 03 was good for about ten thousand rounds with the anemic loads used by infantry.

Machine gun rounds were reputedly more powerful.

The mad minute videos are flat stupid.

And not realistic.

Have I ever shown you guys my bayonet?

Actually I said the straight bolt. That is operated with an open hand and the hook of the thumb, you never actually grasp it. When they bent it on the Mauser they also cut a notch in the stock to facilitate the hook of the finger under the bolt. Bent bolts are better for defensive shooting, position shooting, because they are easier to keep on target. Note that with a bent bolt the hand has to go in two directions, up and then to the rear. With a straight bolt it's more swept in an arc.

In the case of the Enfield the bolt is farther back. When the hand comes off the trigger it more naturally hooks the bolt. It again becomes more of an arc, which is more of a natural hand motion than going in two directions.

Yeah I'm sure you're a real menace with the old bolt guns.

LOL

Another vote for #4 Mk 1 Lee-Enfield. Very handy bolt gun when multiple shots come into play. I like mine but my old Lee-Enfield #1 Mk III was a little faster but the sights weren't as nice as the #4's rear peep sight for older eyes; but then, those guns weren't designed for old farts. Sold my #1 Mk III over a year ago and regret it. The #4 isn't going anyplace any time soon unless its to my son if I croak early.

The latter ones such as the one pictured are VERY accurate.

You'd be wrong. The 38 rounds/minute was actually performed by a British Army instructor and not some U tuber. If you look at the video I posted, it tries to copy the drill, which was performed at 300 yards... It's educational...and realistic...

Another, albeit slower..

He's not shooting full house ammo.

And to claim that every Brit was achieving that skill level on their way to the front is flat fugking ridiculous.

The British Instructor was and the fact that ONE instructor could do it is NOT the standard of course, but the fact remains even amateurs are achieving 30 rounds/minute with full patch loads and that can never be achieved by an 03 or a 98. Lastly, the ones on the receiving end, the Germans validated their uncanny rates of fire. READ the Guns Of August for starters.

That looks like an Irish Contract rifle. I had two I paid $160 for. Bought them in 1994, sold them in 2017. $1250 each. Never fired, still in the wrappers with cosmoline.

It is. I had two, sold one..

What did you get out of it?

I don’t even know how the rate of fire for the SMLE is under debate. It’s well known that it had by far the highest rate of fire for bolt action rifles. The British carried it until the late 1950s and early 60s. Early in the war the Germans thought they were under machine gun fire when it was nothing but SMLE armed infantry.

Nobody mentioned the M1917 Enfield yet. Damn fine rifle.

Old adage goes as follows:

"Springfield is the target rifle"

"Mauser is the hunting rifle"

"Enfield is the battle rifle"

I gave my Irish contract No 4 Mk II to my nephew, he loves the heck out of it.

Actually the one I really miss is a 1943 BSA-made No 4, west on the outside but a clean bore and a low-number bolt head (1??). IIRC it had the wartime expedient two ring rear sight rather than the graduated ladder and might have been the one with two groove rifling I forget. It shot well,

I traded it off for the Irish contract one, a once in a lifetime opportunity for a brand new Enfield.

I got off that guy’s videos that the average Tommy was expected to achieve fifteen aimed rounds per minute.

It would be interesting to note how that compared to German and US standards during he same time frame.

The proof is out there and on video...for those who want to SEE.

As to the Irish Enfield, I got 900 for it about 5 years ago

It would be more interesting to know if hey ever used that method to any useful effect.

Time for some anglophiles or Canuckians to chime in here..but I think, volley fire was part of Brit military tactics until 1918. I'm sure it was used to good effect, I read a translation of a German officer circa WWI, and in at least one assault the Germans thought the Brits had batteries of machine guns, "so we revised our plans and returned to our trenches". Volley sights were on many LE's from that era. In reality, after Dunkirk, the Brits were woefully short on MG's, having left a few behind apparently. Maybe more than a few.
That said, I believe the world record with a bolt rifle, Sauer, 5 round mags,remains with the Norwegians, 2019 Inge Hvitas put 39 out of 44 in 60 seconds, into the standard 6.9 moa target at 200m. 2nd place fired an astonishing 48 rds but only 38 hits. I am pretty sure the Brits have never come close. For one thing they used a 7.64 moa target.
Practical use, probably not much, but they are great riflemen.

Have you ever read a thing about the early days of World War I?

Never heard of it.

That is certainly impressive, do you have a source and is that Sauer a military rifle?

Jorge, I am kind of hooked on any number of Youtube video's on the subject, but I'm so computer stupid I can't make links...but just about anything with "Stangskyting" in the search box will take you to the vids. The Sauers used are target models, currently produced and commonly available in EU. I'm sure they are highly tuned and polished. Not too many years ago they were using Norwegian Krags, with a loading device called the 'hurtiglader' (quick loader) and the 60 seconds began with the shooter in the standing position with the rifle butt on the ground. Few if any of the vids are in english language.