A cousin called and said that 93 year old Uncle Jim had just been taken home by the police after he drove his car poorly and what should they do?
A subsequent Zoom meeting pointed out how woefully ill-prepared my cousins are for the inevitable passing of their father.
1. They don't have a family lawyer.
2. They don't have a legal power of attorney for both health care and financial dealings.
3. They don't know if Jim has a will or if he does, where it is or who made it for him.
4. They don't know if Jim has a living will for end of life issues.
5. They didn't know that one of them should be listed on their dad's checking and savings accounts as "or" so that they can pay bills from those accounts.
6. They aren't sure what or where Jim has for assets.
7. They collectively were given property up north, but aren't sure if they have a legal deed to the property.
8. They didn't realize that dad didn't have a valid driver' license.
9. They weren't sure if the car was insured.
The list goes on, but this is a cluster bleep just waiting for a day to happen.

The wife and I drove over there and picked up the car keys and took the car back home here and Jim wants it back, but I'm doing him a favor by not contributing to the delinquency of an uncle though he won't see it that way. There is no doubt that uncle should not be alone or driving and should be in an assisted living facility. The cousins are not local and have pretty much abdicated any responsibility and are fighting among themselves.

It occurs to me that some of us here on the Fire might be in the same situation or might even be "the uncle". Are you and the family prepared like you should be?

Yes.

I am the elderly member.

Never.

Everyone over the age of 18 should have #4, and it can cover the health care portion of #2 without the need for a separate PoA.

In most cases a trust is a better option to cover #5, #6, #9 and the financial part of #2.

Someone who was “given land” but is unaware of the filing status of the deed is in over their heads from the start and would probably be a poor choice to manage the affairs without some extensive guidance from a third party.

I’m the aging one, we have our affairs in order.

Absolutely.

Getting old SUCKS!! Rio7

Honestly, no. Uncle Sam took care of that for me for 20yrs. and since retiring in 11' I haven't made any arrangements for me or the wife. Stupid, I know. Thanks for the reminder.

Having just watched this happen with my fathers passing, it was a shock. The man had a will (very generic) and a personal representative, a trust, and insurance.

Still, my sister ended up handling the funeral, the burial arrangements, the cleaning of the house (3 roll on dumpsters full!), the distribution and recording of assets, and the list goes on and on.

What I learned was:

1) Get your house cleaned out and toss all the junk years before you pass.
2) Specify if your home is to be sold, or left to an heir.
3) Specify where your assets should go as an addendum to your will. Keep it updated.
4) Have a medical directive in place.

Surely these are only a starting point.

My father really dipped my sister in the soup by having a basic will (really just a template with his name inserted) and then appointing her to carry out his unknown wishes.

My sister had 4 nephews and nieces driving past her house non-stop, calling and asking "where is the money?", and making outright threats against her person from one of these little [bleep].

While the other siblings have tried to pitch in, Sis will not let anyone help her. She has had the burden of trying to guess what to do with all my father's crap. Farm equipment, his home, his shop, his ATV, his guns, his personal effects, etc. Now she has to arrange for an auction.

DON'T DO THIS TO YOUR KIDS!

Wiser words won't be found about elderly parents.

Seven years ago, we had to move my parents from the house they lived in for 50+ years to retirement community/assisted living/nursing home. The house was not very big but my dad was a hoarder. He would never allow us to throw out anything and he just kept everything, and always added to his stash with "emergency" food supplies like canned goods and boxed items.

It took us several months to clear the house out for sale. I can't even count the number of dumpsters we had to rent. At first, we tried to keep the important stuff and toss everything else, but it was impossible to sort through. I'm not kidding, my dad kept all of the ledgers from the junk store his father set up when he arrived in the US, showing every sale and purchase made from the mid 1940s until the early 1970s. It was interesting at first, then it just became a hassle and everything went to the junkyard.

To this day, we still have bad dreams about having to start over with cleaning that house out. What we should have done in the few years prior to the move was slowly get rid of the junk when my parents were out of the house for the day.

I understand the “hassle” but disrespecting your parents and tossing their belongings in the trash while they are not home, isn’t exactly the answer...but hey that’s just me

When my wife and I got married, within a month or two, we made wills. Many years later, when my wife had Alzheimer's Dementia, I had to eventually place her in a memory care facility. Because we had no children and almost no family -- closest living relative, a nephew, lived 600 miles away -- I had our attorney who specialized in estate planning, to set up a living trust. POA, Living Will, etc. Everything my wife and I owned was transferred to the Living Trust.

The will within the Trust documents was very specific. On my death, every single thing we had was to be sold with the proceeds going to take care of my wife at the memory care facility. Because my wife died a year ago, now, when I die, everything is still to be sold in an estate auction, real estate broker, etc., with cash disbursements made according to my directions in the will.

A very near, dear, and trusted friend of mine and my wife, is the Trustee.

Some people live in denial. "Ahhh, I ain't gonna die for a long, long time." Or, "Yeah, I gotta do that ... mañana."

Boys and girls, if you've not taken care of this, I suggest you have an attorney do so for you now.

L.W.

I agree Jeff. The children of a lady in town did exactly that and in the process threw out some one of kind historical documents covering the 1918-1935 time period. She has never forgiven them.

Things have been factored in,have been for a while.

My father is 88 and my mother is 84. They own a farm in ND.... the land has been rented out to an area farmer since 1998. They will not let, as far as I know, any of the children know their intentions after they pass. They have been the kind of people that will , naïvely , take the word of a stranger over their own children.... they refuse to, as far as I know, allow anyone in the family to understand what their plans are after they pass.

I am sure it will be a cluster fuq at some point. So be it.... some of my arse licking siblings will "take care of things".... whatever .....

I wasn't advocating throwing everything out at once. What I meant was that I wish we would have gone through their stuff early on to identify junk (like 50 years of canceled checks all piled up in boxes that will never be opened again or supermarket coupons from the 1970s) and gotten rid of the obvious garbage, it would have made the eventual clean-out a lot easier. You're right, it's not cool to throw away things that others care about, and the sorting process is the first step to take to ensure that the truly important things are kept.

I'm the oldest in my family as well.

People’s true characters are exposed at such times

Just had the conversation again with my parents last night about making me Power of Attorney. (Their request)

I think this time they are actually going to see a lawyer like they were supposed to 2 years ago.

Get it handled now. Nothing will destroy a family like fighting over a dead loved one.

If those remaining are not wise and civil enough to behave ethically and properly, they are responsible for their own destruction.

Along with my wife, I am one of these aging folks. We have prepared the recommended documents on behalf of our loved ones and they all have copies - and are appreciative. But we will not cease living our normal loves and using the stuff we have gathered to help us do that. Our family has never suggested such and, as loved and loving ones, they will not.

A life is just that - freedom - and not to be governed by what others wish or feel they need - or wish to avoid. "Loved ones" should understand and respect that if they too are loving. We have invested much and much of ourselves in helping them learn and grow as real people. People are not real - far from good folks - if they do not honor such investments on the part of their forebears.

If those remaining are not wise and civil enough to behave ethically and properly, they are responsible for their own destruction.

I executed my first will at 18, at the same time my folks were updating theirs. I've updated mine several times over the years.

I finally got KYHillChick to get her things in order when she got the cancer.

Mom and Dad had everything ironed out since I was a wee one. They kept theirs up to date. There were only two stumbling blocks:

1) Dad had a drawer full of Life Insurance policies-- some that had not been active since Eisenhower's first term. He'd build a building and then take out a term policy to pay off the property in case he croaked. I had to go through each one and figure out which were still active.
2) Dad had a second safety deposit box that wasn't covered in the original processing of the estate. The bank mentioned it to me one day when I up taking care of other business. Yikes! It had was one of the big ones, and it had been given to him free upon opening an account. It was never transferred to Mom. It took lots of loot and 3 months to get into the box. The result? A pile of negatives of all my baby pictures.

Lots of good advice. You can never be too prepared but I sure don't want to leave a huge mess for my wife and kids.

The wife and I updated all of the legal documents for the third time last year. We also purchased two plots in a small country grave yard where her parents are buried. In addition, we have had a good sit-down discussion with the wife and kids as to where to locate everything and the attorney that did the legal documents and set up the trusts for the kids.

It's really hard to go through a lifetime of accumulation regarding guns and reloading equipment and decide what to send down the road. So far, nothing has gone down the road...

Bottom line, I am trying to prevent hard feelings between the kids!

Have spent just about 2 years dealing with my father’s situation; from repeated falls at home to hospitalization, then rehab and a LTC facility, and finally his death and the estate. Almost done now, but it was a certified bitch because he fought me tooth and nail while he was still in charge of his affairs and even after, threatening to disinherit me (please, please, disinherit me!). He had everything pretty much in place, but there’s just so much involved with cleaning out someone’s house and getting it ready for sale, plus liquidating investments to pay the astounding bills associated with LTC. It all fell to me and my wife, working from 165 miles away. Oh what fun!

Now I’m the next one that will go down, and I’m working on clearing up my own pile of crap before I crash.

Craig D, this is just a suggestion.

If you're concerned about the "hard feelings" over "who gets what," why not get your kids together now and discuss what guns/tools, each is to receive??

Might save those "hard feelings" later on down the road.

L.W.

I looked at these Tuesday, but did'nt buy any.

See threads on here from time to time, 70-80 year old buffoons don’t even have a will, or DNR, or POA set up. No estate planning.



8 years ago, we built a 400 sq ft room and handicap full bath on the lowest-carport level of our home.

After seeing my mother’s health fail, we began to prepare for my dad and both in-laws.

About 2 years out before my mother passed my brother and I convinced my Mom we needed to be full partners in her bank accounts and investments. It sounds greedy but it was the smartest thing we ever did. For Mom's last 6 months she was suffering from dementia badly and we needed to write checks and get groceries. We used her money and she was good with that. We already had the funeral arrangements made and on the day she passed we called the funeral home and they were at the hospital within the hour and Mom was on her next to her last ride to the funeral home. Her last ride was to the cemetery to be buried next to my dad. It wasn't a celebration but it wasn't a complete and total mess like others have already talked about.

She had no will but we followed her wishes as best we could. Her assets got divided up evenly and we could pay back my brother who paid for my other brothers wife's funeral service 7 months prior. I can't tell you how important it is to plan ahead. Just like other Fire members have said, be prepared and plan ahead. It's not that hard.

kwg

Windfall;
Good afternoon to you sir, thanks for the thread and thanks to those who've participated in it thus far.

My experience with this is that my wife and I were the executors for both sets of parents and both of our late Moms were dementia patients. My Mom in law was medically induced and Mom's was a slow descent into it. I wouldn't wish dementia on anyone - ever.

I'll begin by stating it's my belief that the most unselfish thing we can do for our heirs is to leave a good will, POA and what we call a Representation Agreement which seems to be what you good folks call a living will.

Other things we've done for our girls besides that is sending them the contact information and account numbers for our investments, bank accounts and insurances.

We've talked to them about services - I'm easy in that I just want my ashes spread someplace with a decent view of mulie country. I've suggested they wait until fall, buy a tag and take a walk with a good rifle while spreading them.

We've both dealt with friends who had to clean up after loved ones/parents had passed without proper wills. Up here if it goes to probate, the government takes 1.4% of gross - cool....

Indeed if you've got "stuff" you want to give to either heirs or friends, please do so now while you can get the satisfaction of seeing them enjoy it as well.

Thanks for reading, hopefully acting on some of the suggestions and I hope you all stay well.

Dwayne

Going to the lawyer to get item #2 finished for the wife's mother tomorrow.

She's bat chit crazy with dementia to boot.

I have settled a few estates, it can be a real PITA

Couple of long stories short. Seen both sides of this. Pretty smooth on my moms side with her parents. They did do some stupid stuff with trusts though. I think my mom was 68 or 67 when she passed but the trust forbade any distribution until two years after the trust, and even then only up to two thirds. So that was a little weird with my mom being the sole heir and trustee, but could t do anything other than look at it. That grandma also fell for at least three scams right before she gave up at 90. She was super embarrassed and got bilked out of at least $20,000.
In our estate plan their won’t be anything like a hold on funds if our kids are over 30.

On the other hand, you can do what my dads parents did. Divorced, neither had a plan. My dad was the only one with means to bury them, but all his siblings wanted to have input on funerals for him pay for. Not a dime between either one and the siblings and cousins all thought my dad stole their money. In fact his moms house was reverse mortgaged to the hilt and she still didn’t understand why the bank wouldn’t giver her any more money. Took 4 years to finally remove my cousins from her house this past January. First they got evicted by health orders because the utilities eventually got shut off(easy to do when you have no rent to pay). Found that part out last Christmas when my dad showed up to drop off presents. They were holding out for a bank settlement of at least $5k to not strip the house of copper wiring. Somehow the bank and health department finally got them out and finished the foreclosure. Now they are crashing at my cousin’s 20 year old son’s house, who is in turn crashing with with girlfriend and her family with their two kids in Goodland, KS. From Victorville, Ca they drive three cars out there and my mom was like “Why would they take three cars!?! That’s stupid. They said they had a lot of luggage.” Because they moved Mom!

So yeah, take care of your estate while you’re lucid. Oh one other thing, my dad is terrible about telling me things in his will that are not written down. Said my kids will get 50% of my brother’s shares if they don’t have kids. Well that’s not in the will, so probably not gonna hold my brothers to that one.

I am one of them old folks now. Got it all covered. Nearest relative is 1200 miles away. Hardly hear from them ,so it is only me and my wife. I have been gifting a few of my firearms, selling a few more on consignment.Hope no one is expecting much.My wife is younger than me and I will probably go first.She says she is giving the rest away to charity when she goes..

I have been an executor to three individual's estates when they past.I don't want anyone to go thru that for me.

Everything in order here. My folks live about 300 yards from me. It's just that time now where nothing is brought up, but you know you have to involve yourself with their affairs a bit here and there. My folks are 78 and 80, and I consider myself fortunate that they're still with us.

third oldest in my line. couldn't check any of the op's list myself. keep thinking about it. that's all, think about it.

My father was diagnosed with a terminal illness and was determined to prove wrong the old saying," You can't take it with you!"

After some thought he figured out how to take at least some of his money with him. He instructed me to go to his bank
and withdraw enough money to fill two pillow cases. He then directed me to take the bags of money to the attic and
leave them directly above his bed, so that when he died - He could grab them on his way to Heaven.

Several weeks after the funeral I went up to the attic to clean, and came upon the two pillow cases stuffed with Cash.

"Oh!, that darned old fool" I thought - "I knew he should have had me put that money in the basement!"

I am also the eldest and yes, we have wills, POA's, Trust Accounts and everything in order for the kids to assume control if necessary. Very little cost to get all of this accomplished.

We need plots, and a stone.

Pops had a DNR. They didnt follow it. Worked out, but could have been better, or much worse.

11 days it took him to expire.

Im already tired of dealing w pops estate.
Most folks mean well, but they are stupid and just get in the way.

Dont need pleasantries, or advice. I hired an attorney that specializes in this and am going by his list.

People need to shut up, stay away.

The one comment I would add if it has not been said before... and this is for people reading this post not necessarily Uncle Jim.

Make sure that 100% of everything is set up as a transfer on death TOD... or payment on death POD.

A will or medical directive is fine to have, in fact it's of course a great idea. But if everything immediately transfers with a death certificate... the will really does not matter.

We did transfer on death Deeds for Real Estate as well as all of the bank accounts. It made my job is the executor extremely easy because everybody got what was intended immediately and there was nothing left to discuss.

Examples below.

My father passed away in February of 2020 I am the executor. I am still dealing with this through the courts and it is an absolute pain in the butt. Thousands and thousands of dollars going to the state. I have to track every dispersal and every expense. It is extraordinary complicated. No TOD or POD.

My mother passed in September of 2020 and all of her accounts we're set up as TOD and POD.

Closing out her affairs involved just one phone call to the Probate Clerk... who informed me I needed to do absolutely nothing.

Of course I have to file 2020 taxes for both of my parents, but that is a given as an executor.

Good luck to all facing this challenge.

Cash;
Good afternoon or evening I suppose now for you sir, I'm sorry to read that last year was a tough one for you losing both parents. Please accept belated condolences, it's not ever easy.

Thanks for your contribution to the thread, it's something I'm not sure we have to deal with on this side of the medicine line, but as I'm a distinct minority here it's good advice for most readers I'm sure and certain.

One additional thing I've thought of is that as one gets on in years it's beneficial to have someone with joint signing authority on a bank account.

We often envision an estate plan as solely taking place after we've departed, but in many cases now modern medicine might keep us alive for months or perhaps years but in a state where we'll need to keep the lights on back at home.

In dealing with friends who've run into this, they had to dip into their own funds to keep the ailing parent's house and yard kept up because until the parent passed, there was no inheritance triggered. If it still goes into a situation such as you've described then the inheritance transfer is still not immediate and again the heirs need to pay the taxes, power, water, etc.

Anyways, hopefully that made sense and is helpful as well.

Again sir, condolences on the loss of both of your parents in such a short time.

Hopefully this is a year of healing and restoration for you.

Dwayne

Thanks Dwayne...

I was extremely blessed to be able to drop everything and take care of my parents full time. It was a very fortunate thing and affords me wonderful memories from being able to do the work... without regrets.

You are indeed correct about joint checking accounts. We had set that up also.

X 100

TOD and POD, make sure that your state honors both.

I have had a will since age 19, keep it updated as my assets grow and change, nieces/nephews born etc. Also have a large life insurance policy that is a bit pricey monthly but is large enough to cover anything I might have financed at the time of my demise whenever that is and still leave the wifey a good sum. Figure if I make to the days to eventually sell the business, my properties here and move onto the land I already own in WV, I can drop the policy as the wife will have more then enough money to live out her days however she wishes, plus she has a good paying career and retirement funds of her own. Just dont want to saddle her or anyone with any debt of my making!

As far as my parents, they have had everything arranged as long as I can remember, this includes estate planning, living wills, prepaid funerals, graves etc. Thier estate will be fairly sizable with my sister as the executor which my brother and I are fine with and will assist as much as necessary because we all get along great!

I need to get my chidtt together regarding this stuff and my parents. The thought of losing them sucks but it's time to buck up.

OH hale LOL ->>P Weed you is funny !!!

Blindshooter, if your MIL already has documented dementia, a POA may not be valid.

My best friends dad died a few years ago. They parked a cotton trailer in the yard and I helped fill it up. He had 6 children and had stuff like all their school papers from 1st grade on. It was a hard days work hauling all that stuff out of the house.

My dad just passed in late February, He was 94 and his health had turned on him in the last 4 months. The last month me and my three sisters nursed home with the help of home hospice. so we didn't have to deal with a nursing home etc.

Paper work wise he had things in line. Accounts were all TOD, House was paid for and in trust. We agreed that we could take what we wanted from the house until a certain date, one of sisters who revels in such things will have two weeks to do a tag/estate sale and then we have hired a crew to come and dump the rest in a 15 cubic yard dumper, a cleaning team is to clean the house after that and we will list it for sale.

Loosing our dad sucks, but the rest was made easy by some planning.

Excellent advice. The bigger your estate, may warrant doing this every couple of years. Don't forget little things like having someone know to tell people you've passed on, through the forums they are on. Things like that.

So bad🤣

Whenever this discussion comes up, I think of this cartoon. A little levity to a somber topic.

Absolutely 300, thank you for mentioning that. The time to get a POA is before a doctor would certify someone as demented and that someone else should be handling their affairs.

While I had most of mom’s financial things worked out, I got a reality check after she died and Social Security had put a lock down on everything at the bank. She had an annuity check that I could have put into her account that I could have accessed before she died, but the bank locked down her accounts after she died and my POA meant nothing. Months and more paper work got it eventually, but it sure would have been easier if I hadn’t waited.

Some terrific insights on this thread for something that we are all going to be facing. I do appreciate the input.

Our trust is evergreen to stay abreast of changing laws or scenarios and we pay an annual fee for it on a three year cycle. Year one updates our health/medical desires legal or otherwise, year two updates our financial desires legal or otherwise and year three we are issued a new trust. Our attorney set up a meeting/telecom with us and our three sons explaining the trust and how it will be administered. The boys were pleased with the session and, in particular, how all medical decisions have been made.

I got a call from a friend yesterday that he was with my 85 year old mother at the grocery store and she was having trouble. I rushed over and she was dizzy and not talking well. She insisted on going about her shopping. She has shared nothing about her business or health with us and probably won't.
She won't heed my good advice either.

That's a pretty flippant observation. It takes one dusche bag to make a complete mess after somebody dies. You can have a large family and one jack wad turns everything upside down. A faulty or flippant estate plan makes that much more likely to happen.

Windfall, I had a similar experience when my Mom died. POAs die with the person who signed them. I had to wait till tbe court gave me the letters of appointment as personal representative of her estate before I could begin settling her affairs. This is a good rule, keeps unscrupulous people from accessing accounts before a PR is determined and legally appointed.