I stumbled around on a youtube video about all the dead bodies on Mt. Everest, something like 281 are up there. Then that lead me to another video about a guy named David Sharp, a solo climber who went up Everest in 2006, made some decision that ultimately led to him falling gravely ill, holing up in a cave next to a dead body known as green shoes, and 30 people passed him, some seeing him , others did not.
A double amputee named Mark Inglis and 3 other New Zealand climbers stopped to check on him on the way up. He was alive, but mostly incoherent and nearly frozen. They faced a decision as to help him, derailing their potentially once in a lifetime ascent to the Summit, and ultimately they made the decision to leave him there, climb to the top and descend back down. On the way back down they stopped again, he was still alive but in much worse shape, and at that point, no one had enough oxygen to do anything for him.
There is more to the story, especially regarding the decisions David Sharp made from choosing his outfitter to climbing alone to the time he chose to ascend.
So the Everest Test is....
If you planned a once in a lifetime trip to climb Everest, spent upwards of $50K for the climb, trained for months and then encounter a dying man on the mountain 1 hour from the summit, do you make the decision to do whatever you can to save him and forego the climb or do you do what you can in the moment to comfort him and then proceed on knowing you are leaving him to his fate, living the rest of your life knowing you left a person to die?
I doubt that guys who make the decision to climb think anything at all like I do. It would be presumptuous of me to think otherwise.
I suspect that those who are motivated to do such things do not expect others to give up their own dream of standing on the summit, and may even insist on being left to die.
I'm confident that my own mindset is different because I'm not the type of person who would consider climbing Everest.
Life or death............I'd do everything in my power to help. If it came down to leaving him if it compromised the safety of someone in my party, he's on his own.
Easy to have the noble answer when you are not faced with the circumstances of the place. Dozens of climbers are lined up for the final ascent at the green boots cave. To reach the summit may take another 30 minutes or 6 hours. How stable is the weather, do I have oxygen to share without risking my life or my companions? Give comfort? No such thing when you are bundled up beyond looking human and the one in distress is so hypothermic he feels nothing and his mind isn't really functional. Maybe you save him so he can later lose his hands, feet, lips and nose to frost bite and face nerve and circulation pain the rest of his miserable life. Hard decision but I bet those facing it never think about the money they spent to be there.
I think you know the potential situations before you ever embark on this type of journey. If I paid the money and did the waiting list and spent the time to prepare and I am one hour from my lifelong goal I am pushing to the top and I would expect everyone to do that to me if the situation aroze where I was stuck. I knew what the risks were going in and in no way would I expect you to give up your deams if I for some reason was not prepared or fell ill. If I was paying an outfitter/guide it would fall to him to decide to help me or not.
Life or death............I'd do everything in my power to help. If it came down to leaving him if it compromised the safety of someone in my party, he's on his own.
Yup, if you have put yourself in that position you probably have already decided on that scenario or you are low level peak bagger who shouldn't be there. Choosing to play in that unforgiving environment includes acceptance of the fact that Mother Nature does not care about you.
That seems like a decision that is best made before the situation even arises. Personally I wouldn’t even attempt the climb in the first place. That’s just me, but Those that do might accept that very thing as a possible reality of the effort and accept it for what it is to begin with.
I would never go there in the first place. But if I were in that situation, I would try to save the guy. $50K be damned. Somewhere I heard something about, "No man left behind."
How do you want to brag to some suburbanites at the cocktail party? "I climbed Everest along with a gazillion other guys. Cost $50K." Or, "I paid $50K to climb Everest but on the way found a guy freezing to death. I abandoned my climb to save his life."
WTF you get up there and it looks just like the photos, stay 10 minutes and you gotta leave. I don’t think it’s even the toughest peak to climb, I mean it ain’t like free-climbing El Capitan, the Sherpas could hustle most anyone up there.
OTOH to save a life, now there’s a good story to take with you.
Here’s a guy who made the right decision, I know there’s others too.
It's a known risk before the climb. Attempting a rescue is also a death sentence. There are other cases where rescues are not attempted because the rescuer will also die - fact of life.
There was no saving David Sharp. At that altitude, and his length of time being there, he was not able to climb down the mountain even with assistance. And that's the only way you can get down from that point. Be conscious, and be able to move your own legs. You can't be carried down from that altitude.
If you wish to invoke human morality, decency, or kindness......you could sit there with him so he doesn't die alone. And that surely endangers you.
The older I get, the more I appreciate the things I did that were done for the right reason. The thought of leaving someone to die when I could have helped save their their life, is so foreign to me that i can't even imagine it. And yes I have had that decision to make. Not on a mountain, but in the jungles of Viet Nam. It was right then and would be right in the future. Life is so much more important than money, its not even on the same scale.
There was no saving David Sharp. At that altitude, and his length of time being there, he was not able to climb down the mountain even with assistance. And that's the only way you can get down from that point. Be conscious, and be able to move your own legs. You can't be carried down from that altitude.
If you wish to invoke human morality, decency, or kindness......you could sit there with him so he doesn't die alone. And that surely endangers you.
After reading Into Thin Air, I agree. There's not a big divide between life and death up there. That's why there's so many dead bodies up there. Not through callousness but that trying to remove them would risk other lives.
There was no saving David Sharp. At that altitude, and his length of time being there, he was not able to climb down the mountain even with assistance. And that's the only way you can get down from that point. Be conscious, and be able to move your own legs. You can't be carried down from that altitude.
If you wish to invoke human morality, decency, or kindness......you could sit there with him so he doesn't die alone. And that surely endangers you.
I couldn’t leave someone to die even if he’s a moron. I love hiking deep into wilderness and rugged country but just can’t understand the allure of Everest. Pay a bunch of money to almost die just so you can say you did it? Doesn’t appeal to me
Somebody said to ask that question before you go up. If the guide says to leave him do you really want to use him. He may turn on you. He can make up any story.
Somebody said to ask that question before you go up. If the guide says to leave him do you really want to use him. He may turn on you. He can make up any story.
In this incident, both guides and the expedition leader told their clients to leave Sharp and continue taking care of themselves. That's their job.
There are several examples of climbers and guides canceling their own ascent to assist climbers in need. If a rescue is possible, they'll do it.
Somebody said to ask that question before you go up. If the guide says to leave him do you really want to use him. He may turn on you. He can make up any story.
In this incident, both guides and the expedition leader told their clients to leave Sharp and continue taking care of themselves. That's their job.
There are several examples of climbers and guides canceling their own ascent to assist climbers in need. If a rescue is possible, they'll do it.
Yeah.
Thing is, a rescue from near the summit of an immobilized climber isn't really ever going to be a possibility. At least not one with a good chance of ending up with one or less dead.....
There are several examples of climbers and guides canceling their own ascent to assist climbers in need. If a rescue is possible, they'll do it.
That seems to be the issue here - that rescue wasn't possible. He apparently was a dead man waiting for the end and nothing could be done to save him. Knowing that he can't be saved turns a different light on it.
Any sane person would stop to help but many climbers are far from sane.
There's a climbing shop in Boulder called Neptune Mountaineering(next door to the King Soopers that got shot up) that has jars of toes, ears, and noses that people lost to frost bite. They have them on display like trophies.
If it were so easy to rescue people and high chance of survivorship on rescue attempts...then there wouldn't be so many bodies up there and some kind of concierge rescue service would probably exist.
I read an account of the training required to try the climb. To make it in good circumstances and perfect weather requires training comparable to running a distance race in the olympics. Hauling someone down from near the summit would be very difficult but worth trying.
Russell Brice of New Zealand runs the respected guiding company Himalayan Experience (Himex). He has multiple 8,000m summits under his belt. His team was on the north side of Everest in 2006, and Sherpas from his outfit had attempted to aid Sharp late in his distress.
Brice returned to Everest the following year. During their expedition, Sherpas from his team cleared three bodies off the route: one at 8,300m, one at 8,600m and Sharp’s body at 8,500m. With as much dignity as is possible in the circumstances, they dragged Sharp’s body to the nearby cliff edge and pushed it over the side of the North Face. The reason for such removals is detailed at this Quora answer. The Sherpas also tried to remove the Green Boots corpse; however, it was under snow, and earlier efforts to move it had failed as it was frozen in place.
Somebody said to ask that question before you go up. If the guide says to leave him do you really want to use him. He may turn on you. He can make up any story.
In this incident, both guides and the expedition leader told their clients to leave Sharp and continue taking care of themselves. That's their job.
There are several examples of climbers and guides canceling their own ascent to assist climbers in need. If a rescue is possible, they'll do it.
Agreed. Also other instances where the Guide made bad choices and made it out alive. Clients didn’t because of them.
I would never go there in the first place. But if I were in that situation, I would try to save the guy. $50K be damned. Somewhere I heard something about, "No man left behind."
How do you want to brag to some suburbanites at the cocktail party? "I climbed Everest along with a gazillion other guys. Cost $50K." Or, "I paid $50K to climb Everest but on the way found a guy freezing to death. I abandoned my climb to save his life."
My wife's cousin is still up there. He wasn't portrayed correctly in the book - written by the client of a rival guide. The movie was a bit more accurate. He was good man.
Hell'uva thing calling your wife and saying good-bye while waiting to die.
My wife's cousin is still up there. He wasn't portrayed correctly in the book - written by the client of a rival guide. The movie was a bit more accurate. He was good man.
Hell'uva thing calling your wife and saying good-bye while waiting to die.
Rob Hall?
That is the harsh reality of Everest. Trying to save Doug killed two. And that reality is why people left David Sharp . We judge from sea level or whatever your altitude is. Next time a jet flys over at cruising altitude, look up, THAT is the reality of where they go. Everyone that climbs Everest accepts that risk and reality.
Everest is a point of reference showing how shallow the ocean of air we live in really is. 29,032 feet, 5 1/2 miles and most of us would be suffering at just half that.
5 1/2 miles is a short commute horizontally, do that vertically and you’re dead.
I was hoping to get alot of discussion with both sides of the viewpoint
My wife was all about saving him - you do whatever you have to do, and when I mentioned $50K she said you couldn't put a price on life,
then I thought about David Sharp and him going with the cheapest outfitter, a group that basically got you a permit to climb and nothing else, his decision to forego a team, sherpas, oxygen and his decision to start his ascent late in the afternoon.
He put a price on his life and it wasn't very much.
I think you have to steel yourself to the idea you'll leave a man up there, even a person on your team.
I saw another story where a husband and wife went up together but got separated on the way down. I don't know how that happens, leaving your spouse? He made it down, she fell down a cliff and was too weak to make the climb back up, he got back to camp, realized she wasn't there and went back after her - and he fell off a cliff and died. They found her alive along enough for her to beg them not to leave her on the mountain. She died 30 minutes after the climbers found her. He was found much later.
I don't know, even after all that rationalization, you have to look yourself in the mirror. Can you live with that decision? If you had any humanity it would haunt you at some level
It is July 2021 and you find yourself in the streets of Minneapolis doing everything you possibly can to survive the current riots and murders that are occurring because of Chauvin's acquittal.
People have been shooting at you and throwing rocks at you for hours... as the mob moves to the other side of the street you see a potential opportunity to escape behind some dumpsters.
As you are making your exit you come across a gravely wounded antifa thug behind the dumpsters.
You have an opportunity to help this person who is begging you for help but it's virtually incoherent.
It is July 2021 and you find yourself in the streets of Minneapolis doing everything you possibly can to survive the current riots and murders that are occurring because of Chauvin's acquittal.
People have been shooting at you and throwing rocks at you for hours... as the mob moves to the other side of the street you see a potential opportunity to escape behind some dumpsters.
As you are making your exit you come across a gravely wounded antifa thug behind the dumpsters.
You have an opportunity to help this person who is begging you for help but it's virtually incoherent.
In doing so you severely risk your own escape.
Kinda the same thing?
Not at all...it's more like you're a highly trained athlete in peak physical condition who has carried just enough supplies to endure a journey to the end and turn around. Every step at altitude is a grueling task that requires all of your effort despite your physical preparedness. You come across, a person in the last stages of their life, or a 150 lbs of gold sitting on the trail...you step over the person or object, because any other burden highly jeopardizes your life and has little success in recovering the person/gold.
It is July 2021 and you find yourself in the streets of Minneapolis doing everything you possibly can to survive the current riots and murders that are occurring because of Chauvin's acquittal.
People have been shooting at you and throwing rocks at you for hours... as the mob moves to the other side of the street you see a potential opportunity to escape behind some dumpsters.
As you are making your exit you come across a gravely wounded antifa thug behind the dumpsters.
You have an opportunity to help this person who is begging you for help but it's virtually incoherent.
In doing so you severely risk your own escape.
Kinda the same thing?
Not at all...it's more like you're a highly trained athlete in peak physical condition who has carried just enough supplies to endure a journey to the end and turn around. Every step at altitude is a grueling task that requires all of your effort despite your physical preparedness. You come across, a person in the last stages of their life, or a 150 lbs of gold sitting on the trail...you step over the person or object, because any other burden highly jeopardizes your life and has little success in recovering the person/gold.
They are in such a state they can't even bring their own trash back down...............
I'd have to consider the situation and most likely would come to the conclusion that if the poor guy can't walk on his own, then there's simply not a dang thing that I could do for him. It's not like you can just carry a guy down the hill to lower elevation. SO, I'd say a prayer for him and go on.
I'd have to consider the situation and most likely would come to the conclusion that if the poor guy can't walk on his own, then there's simply not a dang thing that I could do for him. It's not like you can just carry a guy down the hill to lower elevation. SO, I'd say a prayer for him and go on.
As I said before, it's an issue of how to deal with their end of life because they can't be saved. The question is how do you handle your climb and your own life in the face of a lost cause. While it's callous to walk off and leave them, there's not a thing you can do to save them. So, what do you do that you can live with the rest of your life?
I’ve known several climbers. One that tried to climb Everest twice, and failed. They both said that if you can’t walk off the mountain, then you are going to die. It would be impossible for a climber to get another climber down the mountain by himself. You are heavily physically taxed and have a lot of equipment on that further reduces your agility. If you are going to try climbing the 8,000 meter mountains, you are diving with death.
It is July 2021 and you find yourself in the streets of Minneapolis doing everything you possibly can to survive the current riots and murders that are occurring because of Chauvin's acquittal.
People have been shooting at you and throwing rocks at you for hours... as the mob moves to the other side of the street you see a potential opportunity to escape behind some dumpsters.
As you are making your exit you come across a gravely wounded antifa thug behind the dumpsters.
You have an opportunity to help this person who is begging you for help but it's virtually incoherent.
In doing so you severely risk your own escape.
Kinda the same thing?
Not at all...it's more like you're a highly trained athlete in peak physical condition who has carried just enough supplies to endure a journey to the end and turn around. Every step at altitude is a grueling task that requires all of your effort despite your physical preparedness. You come across, a person in the last stages of their life, or a 150 lbs of gold sitting on the trail...you step over the person or object, because any other burden highly jeopardizes your life and has little success in recovering the person/gold.
Josh Deets: What we doin' up here, Captain? This ain't our land.
I used to do a bit of mountaineering. The choice to take on such an epic mountain as Everest... solo...
Is fraught with arrogance, insanity and quite possibly underlying Suicidal Tendencies.
I’d ask him his thoughts on driving in the left lane while maintaining the speed limit and I’d also ask his thoughts on COVID and Joe Biden.
Then I’d decide how the rest of my day was gonna go.
The man with a solid plan!
I’m sure most of us have done things others thought suicidal or reckless. I have done more than one solo Alaskan hunt . Some would call into the wilderness a foolish endeavor.
It’s just a matter of semantics . Sure the margins are much thinner on Everest. But you also take a risk in Alaska if you get hurt you’re on your own. And I’d bet most hunters given the opportunity would jump at it.
Judging what happens on Everest from sea level is looking through a coke bottle at best.
The climber sounds like a real bozo but I would have to assist him .
Good answer.
Of course anyone who wastes $50k, to go risk their life, busting their ass, climbing a mountain, for the bragging rights/feeling of superiority, is Nothing like me.
$50k is a lot of money I have already worked hard for. And takes more than a few weeks to save. Look around here, and their are 5k places I would rather put that to use helping people than climbing a mountain.
In other words, Everone on that mountain, except the Sherpas, are Bozos.
The climber sounds like a real bozo but I would have to assist him .
Good answer.
Of course anyone who wastes $50k, to go risk their life, busting their ass, climbing a mountain, for the bragging rights/feeling of superiority, is Nothing like me.
$50k is a lot of money I have already worked hard for. And takes more than a few weeks to save. Look around here, and their are 5k places I would rather put that to use helping people than climbing a mountain.
In other words, Everone on that mountain, except the Sherpas, are Bozos.
I wouldn’t presume to know the motivation on a couple hundred people. Some people realize that until you push a limit you don’t know how far you can go. I wouldn’t assume they haven’t help people in their lives already. I say good on anyone that wants to spend their money. Look how it helps the community in Tibet .
It's a known risk before the climb. Attempting a rescue is also a death sentence. There are other cases where rescues are not attempted because the rescuer will also die - fact of life.
While I have not bumped into many of the climbing enthusiast crowd, it seems to me that the attitudes of some resemble that of some bicyclists I know!
Read the articles Muffin linked above.
In there it says the real appeal of mountaineering to those who do it is because it reduces all of life’s complexities to a simple issue, an all-encompassing expedition to summit a peak.
I’ve done three cross-country bicycle trips over the past seven years, and would do one every year if I could. What Ive noticed is the exact same thing; life reduced to a simple task is relaxation, even if physically arduous.
While I have not bumped into many of the climbing enthusiast crowd, it seems to me that the attitudes of some resemble that of some bicyclists I know!
Read the articles Muffin linked above.
In there it says the real appeal of mountaineering to those who do it is because it reduces all of life’s complexities to a simple issue, an all-encompassing expedition to summit a peak.
I’ve done three cross-country bicycle trips over the past seven years, and would do one every year if I could. What Ive noticed is the exact same thing; life reduced to a simple task is relaxation, even if physically arduous.
While I have not bumped into many of the climbing enthusiast crowd, it seems to me that the attitudes of some resemble that of some bicyclists I know!
Read the articles Muffin linked above.
In there it says the real appeal of mountaineering to those who do it is because it reduces all of life’s complexities to a simple issue, an all-encompassing expedition to summit a peak.
I’ve done three cross-country bicycle trips over the past seven years, and would do one every year if I could. What Ive noticed is the exact same thing; life reduced to a simple task is relaxation, even if physically arduous.
I'd have to consider the situation and most likely would come to the conclusion that if the poor guy can't walk on his own, then there's simply not a dang thing that I could do for him. It's not like you can just carry a guy down the hill to lower elevation. SO, I'd say a prayer for him and go on.
As I said before, it's an issue of how to deal with their end of life because they can't be saved. The question is how do you handle your climb and your own life in the face of a lost cause. While it's callous to walk off and leave them, there's not a thing you can do to save them. So, what do you do that you can live with the rest of your life?
See my last sentence where I said, "I'd say a prayer for him and go on."
Sharp had enough experience to know what he was getting into and the price of failure. In the climbing community the moral question is not about risk and rescues. The question is whether one should participate if dependent on the Sherpas and guides to shoulder most of the risk and labor. The vast majority of Everest climbers are ego driven peak baggers who wouldn't get past the icefall on their own.
The Sherpas fix rope through all the technical ground and crevasses and preplace the camps and carry the loads. This makes it possible for otherwise unprepared people to engage in a sport because other people take the major risks for them. Real climbers enjoy being self sufficient in unforgiving environments. That is a major part of the appeal of playing in the big mountains.
Sharp had enough experience to know what he was getting into and the price of failure. In the climbing community the moral question is not about risk and rescues. The question is whether one should participate if dependent on the Sherpas and guides to shoulder most of the risk and labor. The vast majority of Everest climbers are ego driven peak baggers who wouldn't get past the icefall on their own.
The Sherpas fix rope through all the technical ground and crevasses and preplace the camps and carry the loads. This makes it possible for otherwise unprepared people to engage in a sport because other people take the major risks for them. Real climbers enjoy being self sufficient in unforgiving environments. That is a major part of the appeal of playing in the big mountains.
mike r
I've read this, too. Everest used to be teams of experienced mountaineers. Now it's decent climbers who pay a guide to do all the hard work. It's not a "team", it's a leader and a bunch of followers.
There is an interesting series called "Everest: Beyond The Limit" on either Netflix or Prime that does a great job of illustrating the business of guiding on Everest and the lack of experience and training of many of the clients.
My wife's cousin is still up there. He wasn't portrayed correctly in the book - written by the client of a rival guide. The movie was a bit more accurate. He was good man.
Hell'uva thing calling your wife and saying good-bye while waiting to die.
Rob Hall?
That is the harsh reality of Everest. Trying to save Doug killed two. And that reality is why people left David Sharp . We judge from sea level or whatever your altitude is. Next time a jet flys over at cruising altitude, look up, THAT is the reality of where they go. Everyone that climbs Everest accepts that risk and reality.
Pa hillbilly kid. Grew up farming and logging. Don't understand how these things work at all. Don't need to go to extremes to be tested. Have hayed, carried 5 gallon buckets of maple sap through the woods, Or logged on hot days untill we could barely walk. Literally.
Anyone that "needs tested" never grew up with my Dad.
The climber sounds like a real bozo but I would have to assist him .
Good answer.
Of course anyone who wastes $50k, to go risk their life, busting their ass, climbing a mountain, for the bragging rights/feeling of superiority, is Nothing like me.
$50k is a lot of money I have already worked hard for. And takes more than a few weeks to save. Look around here, and their are 5k places I would rather put that to use helping people than climbing a mountain.
In other words, Everone on that mountain, except the Sherpas, are Bozos.
I have a great mountan I will gladly let folks climb for 50K...if its danger they want ill throw in some live fire...be a once in a life time trip..we can even get beers afterwards.
personally I dont see any status in someone coming up to me and saying " I climbed Mt. Everest.....id probably reply...that adn 2 bucks will get you a cup of coffee from me.
Interesting response from those who have never even been a mere 2000 meters above sea level in a snow storm and high winds
Years ago caught in surprise storm near summit of Mt Ranier and had to wait it out overnight and that’s a fraction of Everest . And they can get helicopters in their to rescue. Gives one perspective.
Like when you dive and get deeper than a 125 feet. You know you’re phigged if anything goes wrong , very little chance of rescue but you should go in knowing the risks.
Sharp had enough experience to know what he was getting into and the price of failure. In the climbing community the moral question is not about risk and rescues. The question is whether one should participate if dependent on the Sherpas and guides to shoulder most of the risk and labor. The vast majority of Everest climbers are ego driven peak baggers who wouldn't get past the icefall on their own.
The Sherpas fix rope through all the technical ground and crevasses and preplace the camps and carry the loads. This makes it possible for otherwise unprepared people to engage in a sport because other people take the major risks for them. Real climbers enjoy being self sufficient in unforgiving environments. That is a major part of the appeal of playing in the big mountains.
mike r
Statistically, you're looking at a group of mostly rich liberal phugks who don't GAS about anyone else, anyway. They skim right past the first chapter that details the sherpas' involvement and hide-saving preparations.
Uh...it’s pretty well known by all who go up there that if you have any trouble, you are more than likely on your own. I would wager that if it were possible to tell, there have been far more instances of handfuls of people trying to help someone on Everest resulting in everyone dying than of instances where people in bad shape were successfully rescued.
My wife's cousin is still up there. He wasn't portrayed correctly in the book - written by the client of a rival guide. The movie was a bit more accurate. He was good man.
Hell'uva thing calling your wife and saying good-bye while waiting to die.
Rob Hall?
That is the harsh reality of Everest. Trying to save Doug killed two. And that reality is why people left David Sharp . We judge from sea level or whatever your altitude is. Next time a jet flys over at cruising altitude, look up, THAT is the reality of where they go. Everyone that climbs Everest accepts that risk and reality.
Scott Fischer
So how accurate was the movie? They portray Scott as having a disdain for people who couldn’t get to the top themselves, yet (in the movie) it was his Sherpa dragging a client to the top of the mountain . Last the movie also portrayed Scott dying because he took Personal risks that he should had known better. Was that a misrepresentation?
So how accurate was the movie? They portray Scott as having a disdain for people who couldn’t get to the top themselves, yet (in the movie) it was his Sherpa dragging a client to the top of the mountain . Last the movie also portrayed Scott dying because he took Personal risks that he should had known better. Was that a misrepresentation?
The movie is inaccurate mostly because of omission. Characters in a movie are rarely good composites of the actual people they represent. I had read books and articles about Hall and Fischer before 1996, and all the accounts of the 1996 tragedy. I acquired the spirit and descriptions of these men from the authors of those articles and books..........all of them fellow climbers. I didn't like the movie.
Scott Fischer likely over-extended himself by helping a friend down from Camp II to Base Camp, and turning around to reclimb the mountain. But Scott was an extraordinarily strong climber.......much admired by his clients and other climbers for his abilities. The above, and the friendly competition between Fischer and Hall to get their respective journalists to the top, and the attendant publicity by doing so, jaundiced their respective decision making.
Everest climbers are not duty-bound, like a soldier is, to put themselves in danger, and assume deadly risks.
I would imagine there are a good percentage of those who die up there, who, in their last minutes and hours of life, are humbled for the very first time.
Would I help? I can't even say. I would never be up there. Generally I am a person who would help a stranger in distress, in most situations.
Up there, the rules change. Each person's window for success and survival is very tight. It would have to be a decision based on all the immediate circumstances.
I wouldn't cross the street to piss on his burning hair. If you spend your life digging holes, fk you when you fall in one. Tough titty said the kitty.
So how accurate was the movie? They portray Scott as having a disdain for people who couldn’t get to the top themselves, yet (in the movie) it was his Sherpa dragging a client to the top of the mountain . Last the movie also portrayed Scott dying because he took Personal risks that he should had known better. Was that a misrepresentation?
The movie is inaccurate mostly because of omission. Characters in a movie are rarely good composites of the actual people they represent. I had read books and articles about Hall and Fischer before 1996, and all the accounts of the 1996 tragedy. I acquired the spirit and descriptions of these men from the authors of those articles and books..........all of them fellow climbers. I didn't like the movie.
Scott Fischer likely over-extended himself by helping a friend down from Camp II to Base Camp, and turning around to reclimb the mountain. But Scott was an extraordinarily strong climber.......much admired by his clients and other climbers for his abilities. The above, and the friendly competition between Fischer and Hall to get their respective journalists to the top, and the attendant publicity by doing so, jaundiced their respective decision making.
So the basic premise of the movie is correct. Both men , experienced climbers made poor decisions.
We are an interesting sort. We make all sorts of assumptions or guesses about what motivates other people to engage such extreme challenges - even when the challenge may be meaningless to us - and we make assumptions about what they will do and how they will act if having succeeded. I know some highly driven people who also are very humble.
Never having even begun to think about climbing Everest, it is impossible to put myself in the place of a person confronted with a dying climber and knowing what I would - or would not - do. It is one life - wrapped in very selective circumstances. Here we speculate and proclaim about what should be done in that special circumstance while hundreds of innocents are purposely killed every day - and how do we think, and act, on that choice and opportunity?
If he spoke English I would tell him the first opportunity I had to communicate during my travel with a radio or whatever they use, I would have him helicoptered out.
If he spoke English I would tell him the first opportunity I had to communicate during my travel with a radio or whatever they use, I would have him helicoptered out.
You need to google "How high can a helicopter fly" and "how tall is Everest"....
We are an interesting sort. We make all sorts of assumptions or guesses about what motivates other people to engage such extreme challenges - even when the challenge may be meaningless to us - and we make assumptions about what they will do and how they will act if having succeeded. I know some highly driven people who also are very humble.
Never having even begun to think about climbing Everest, it is impossible to put myself in the place of a person confronted with a dying climber and knowing what I would - or would not - do. It is one life - wrapped in very selective circumstances. Here we speculate and proclaim about what should be done in that special circumstance while hundreds of innocents are purposely killed every day - and how do we think, and act, on that choice and opportunity?
I spent the turn of the millennium in Kathmandu, we trekked through the foothills of Annapurna and Dhaulagiri which is away from Everest. 10th and 5th highest. It is a very third world country. Just the trek into Everest first base camp is a two week hike and above most people’s altitude tolerance. Basecamp is about the maximum elevation helicopters can fly, and helicopters in Nepal are mostly or were then, Russian surplus.
It is a great mental exercise but similar to asking someone if while traveling to Mars, in a one man spaceship, you encountered a broken spaceship of a fellow tourist, if you would stop and render aid knowing that it may cost you your life?
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