Haven't bought a vehicle in about 7 years. Every single one of them these days seems to have this "feature". Whenever you come to a complete stop at a light with your foot on the brake, it turns the dang engine off and waits for you to start pulling your foot off the brake. Then it starts the engine again. WTF over. Yet another incredibly asinine idea, thanks to the green idiots out there.
Supposed to cut down on emissions. Guess no one cares about having to replace starters, batteries, engines, oil etc more often. Another genius idea from the fake science cult.
I have two vehicles that have that feature, an Audi and a Porsche, and both allow disabling said feature.
All the ones I have seen claim they allow disabling the feature but it's only disabled for since you manually started the vehicle. In other words, it defaults back to being on every time you manually start the vehicle. Yeah, it's not a big deal disabling it every time you start it. It's only one button to press. But it the principle of it that pisses me off. If yours allow you to permanently disable it, consider yourself lucky because the vast majority I have seen don't.
I see a company that sells a gadget that I assume is nothing more than a relay and a capacity that plugs inline with the disable button that causes it to turn off every time the vehicle is started. Only hassle there is pulling off some dash panels to get to the back of the button. Not to bad and every time I start the truck, I will have a smile on my face knowing some douchebag green weasel didn't force me to do something
A buddy of mine showed me the trick on the Ford. He said unplugging that wire was the first “mod” he did to all his new trucks. No downside, that I’ve noticed yet. It should be that way on all vehicles with that feature, just like unplugging the door/key buzzers in days past.
On the Fords that don't have an obvious disable setting, I bet you can use that free Forscan (not foreskin you pervs) software on a laptop plugged into the OBD2 and turn it off. Wish there was something similar for GM rigs.
Sounds like a great plan to make the first moron at a red light delay their start by another 5 seconds and let three cars through before it’s red again.
with my 2017 f 150, I just installed a jumper wire, a small one from like a home thermostat, plug both ends into the plug that goes to the switch and it turns the switch off automatically everytime. I did that the first week of owning the truck.
A buddy of mine showed me the trick on the Ford. He said unplugging that wire was the first “mod” he did to all his new trucks. No downside, that I’ve noticed yet. It should be that way on all vehicles with that feature, just like unplugging the door/key buzzers in days past.
Jpro, I think that wire also moderates other electrical features in the truck other than the auto stop feature. Not sure, but don't think you are just turning off the auto stop.
There are small plug-in wiring harnesses that are easy to install and remember the button setting you hit last. Other than a re-tune, these seem like the most elegant solution
I have two vehicles that have that feature, an Audi and a Porsche, and both allow disabling said feature.
All the ones I have seen claim they allow disabling the feature but it's only disabled for since you manually started the vehicle. In other words, it defaults back to being on every time you manually start the vehicle. Yeah, it's not a big deal disabling it every time you start it. It's only one button to press. But it the principle of it that pisses me off. If yours allow you to permanently disable it, consider yourself lucky because the vast majority I have seen don't.
The Porsche requires that, the Audi stays disabled.
A buddy of mine showed me the trick on the Ford. He said unplugging that wire was the first “mod” he did to all his new trucks. No downside, that I’ve noticed yet. It should be that way on all vehicles with that feature, just like unplugging the door/key buzzers in days past.
Jpro, I think that wire also moderates other electrical features in the truck other than the auto stop feature. Not sure, but don't think you are just turning off the auto stop.
There are small plug-in wiring harnesses that are easy to install and remember the button setting you hit last. Other than a re-tune, these seem like the most elegant solution
Yep, if you pull the wire off the brake you might want to verify you have brake lights on your trailer next time you hook up.
A neighbor down the road has that on his new Ford Pickup. He purchased a gadget that plugs into his trailer harness. Solved the problem. His dealer salesman told him about it. Googlefy it maybe?
GF has had it on her car for years - zero issues/complaints. Father has it on his cars for years - zero issues/complaints. Brother has it on his new Chev - 13k miles, zero issues/complaints. I drove the truck this week to move some stuff - basically not a problem. GF's father is a retired, 40+ year Ford mechanic. Retired 2 years ago. He has it on his vehicles - zero issues or complaints and said that basically they've never had issue with it in the shop, at least not enough to make him worry about it on his stuff.
I suspect whatever vehicle I buy next will have it - I'm not concerned.
Yet another incredibly asinine idea, thanks to the green idiots out there.
THAT, in SPADES!!!
Originally Posted by Gibby
A neighbor down the road has that on his new Ford Pickup. He purchased a gadget that plugs into his trailer harness. Solved the problem. His dealer salesman told him about it.
Yep - when a trailer's hooked up (or in this case, scammed to believe there's one) it disables that totally idiotic piece of techno crap..
Supposed to cut down on emissions. Guess no one cares about having to replace starters, batteries, engines, oil etc more often. Another genius idea from the fake science cult.
Auto and parts makers will be glad to sell you anything on that shopping list so they are all for it. It becomes obvious that big business and the government are in bed together but they are not screwing each, rather screwing us the consumer.
That idea is a lot like most if not all "green initiatives". They are not very good and would not hold up in an actual free market because the increased cost are more than whatever savings you might get and do not make economic sense. It takes more energy to build a windmill than any energy it might produce over its lifetime, it takes more than a gallon of diesel fuel to produce a gallon of ethanol. Musk has never made any actual money selling Teslas, but has done rather well with government subsidies, selling carbon offsets, and trading/manipulating Bitcoin.....etc.
In a nutshell, very few would buy that schit unless forced. They are forced in the name of "saving the planet".
Rented a rav4 for a week. At a stop if you let off the brake slightly the whole vehichle would jolt on the re start. First time it happened thought it was a rear end collision. Bad enough that it startled me several times over the week. What bull shidt...
Got to be hard on engine, drive train, etcc what nonsense.
Haven't bought a vehicle in about 7 years. Every single one of them these days seems to have this "feature". Whenever you come to a complete stop at a light with your foot on the brake, it turns the dang engine off and waits for you to start pulling your foot off the brake. Then it starts the engine again. WTF over. Yet another incredibly asinine idea, thanks to the green idiots out there.
I sold my 1999 F150 2 years ago and bought a used 2015 with this feature. There was a button I could push every time I started the truck that would stop that for as long as the engine was running for that time.
However, I just might have a tech savy boy with a laptop and an OPD reader that was able to disconnect that nuisance FOREVER!
I'm not sure I understand the dislike of the system. In every car I've driven with that system, the engine starts instantly while moving my foot from brake to gas pedal. It is essentially no different than if the engine had stayed running. At all. Move foot - go.
As far as adding wear, I doubt that can be computed over the life of the engine. Today's engines are good for 300,000 miles at least. If start/stop adds wear, will you get only 280,000?
Yes, it may be of zero help with the climate, but the whole man-caused climate change idea is probably false to begin with. So the only effect is to save you a few drops of gas at each stop. That's not a bad thing, is it? Maybe it's only a gallon a month, but with all the cars out there, that's a shipload of gas.
I'm not sure I understand the dislike of the system. In every car I've driven with that system, the engine starts instantly while moving my foot from brake to gas pedal. It is essentially no different than if the engine had stayed running. At all. Move foot - go.
As far as adding wear, I doubt that can be computed over the life of the engine. Today's engines are good for 300,000 miles at least. If start/stop adds wear, will you get only 280,000?
Yes, it may be of zero help with the climate, but the whole man-caused climate change idea is probably false to begin with. So the only effect is to save you a few drops of gas at each stop. That's not a bad thing, is it? Maybe it's only a gallon a month, but with all the cars out there, that's a shipload of gas.
I've generally heard 1/5 of a gallon an hour to idle a vehicle - obviously up/down based on size but average over all. Average 59 hours a year at red lights - so what 12 gallons of gas a year, saves you 36 bucks in fuel. I'm okay with that - especially, as you said, it's basically instant, doesn't seem to cause any mechanical issues.
I'm not sure I understand the dislike of the system. In every car I've driven with that system, the engine starts instantly while moving my foot from brake to gas pedal. It is essentially no different than if the engine had stayed running. At all. Move foot - go.
As far as adding wear, I doubt that can be computed over the life of the engine. Today's engines are good for 300,000 miles at least. If start/stop adds wear, will you get only 280,000?
Yes, it may be of zero help with the climate, but the whole man-caused climate change idea is probably false to begin with. So the only effect is to save you a few drops of gas at each stop. That's not a bad thing, is it? Maybe it's only a gallon a month, but with all the cars out there, that's a shipload of gas.
Our pilot and my sierra have the feature, its the first thing we disable after we crank them. Both have a noticeable delay when cranking back up.
The stupid dfm feature is what is killing engines. After an engine has been running on 4cyl instead of 8, when the 8 starts back up, they are having issues with not enough oil in those cylinders and lifters are going bad.
I'd simply ignore this feature if it is a lease vehicle. However, if it is owned then I would most definitely disable this feature each and every time I'd begin driving. Rebuilt starters are expensive.
I'd simply ignore this feature if it is a lease vehicle. However, if it is owned then I would most definitely disable this feature each and every time I'd begin driving. Rebuilt starters are expensive.
Agreed... The other 'feature' I disable before I drive more than 2 miles is that damned seat-belt chime.. But I digress - I wonder how many of these idiotic start/stop vehicles have had to replace the starters? Probably too new yet to quantify, but there's NO question that it WILL be necessary a few times before the end of its life.. All to save a bucket of gas... Stoooooopid to the max.. YMMV.
I'd simply ignore this feature if it is a lease vehicle. However, if it is owned then I would most definitely disable this feature each and every time I'd begin driving. Rebuilt starters are expensive.
Agreed... The other 'feature' I disable before I drive more than 2 miles is that damned seat-belt chime.. But I digress - I wonder how many of these idiotic start/stop vehicles have had to replace the starters? Probably too new yet to quantify, but there's NO question that it WILL be necessary a few times before the end of its life.. All to save a bucket of gas... Stoooooopid to the max.. YMMV.
In my experience - zero for us. They build them rather stout when doing it.
Heck - I've not had to replace a starter in any vehicle since 1994 and that was in a 1998 chevy p/u.
Sounds like a great plan to make the first moron at a red light delay their start by another 5 seconds and let three cars through before it’s red again.
Won't happen. I hate the feature. and my wife's car has it, but allows it to be turned off after ignition.
It's gotta wear out starter/flywheel components, but there is no delay in my wife's car. By the time your foot is fully off the brake the engine is running and ready to go. If you let three cars go by it's because you're on your phone or daydreaming.
When my wife bought her car you had to go into 3 pages of settings on the touch screen to turn it off. They must have gotten enough negative feedback that on her last service they updated the touch screen and there is now an always visible "button" to disable it.
I would imagine that the disable feature is intended for those times when you're stuck in traffic or just plain stuck and you need to have heat or A/C. Using it all the time is just plain silly - in my very own opinion.
My wife's 2019 Chevy truck has this...Fing hate it. I've gotten in habit of manually turning it off. I wish GM would allow you to permanently turn it off.
On our Toyota Highlander, a dash button will shut it off. However, you have to punch it every time you start the car. It doesn't take long to learn to drive so it doesn't shut off. When coming to a stop, stop gently and as the car jerks back at the stop, relax your brake foot to just enough to keep it from rolling. It takes a heavier pedal to trigger the auto shutoff. Or...Use the S mode on the gearshift. Auto shutoff only works in D.
The restart delay is very short on this one. By the time your foot moves from the brake to the throttle, it's running. Most of the time here, the stops are quite short and the gas and pollution savings aren't worth the extra wear on the starter and flywheel.
My wife's 2019 Chevy truck has this...Fing hate it. I've gotten in habit of manually turning it off. I wish GM would allow you to permanently turn it off.
pulsar programmer will turn it off, it will also turn off the dfm feature
" Sure, it's a stupid feature, but you can disable it." Wonderful. Just like electronic tration control, the default setting should be "off". Those that want it can turn it on. GD
It's only 12 gallons a year for you, but for every car in the country that has start/stop that might mean 12 million gallons - that we don't have to import now under the current Pretendident.
It's only 12 gallons a year for you, but for every car in the country that has start/stop that might mean 12 million gallons - that we don't have to import now under the current Pretendident.
Those same "12 million gallons" are just redirected to the factories that manufacture starters - and the shops that have costs involved (heat/elec) to replace/service 'em.. There is no 'savings' - it's ALL political..
Maybe every greeny-weeny should be MANDATED to own/use only electric vehicles in order to save those 12 million gallons.. Oh, wait, it costs MORE to produce those than any savings gleaned... Damn..
I have two vehicles that have that feature, an Audi and a Porsche, and both allow disabling said feature.
for right now you can shut it disable it ,.who wants to bet me in the near future the car companies or goverment will take that option away from you ,and you wont be able to turn that offand disable it.. too save the planet
It's only 12 gallons a year for you, but for every car in the country that has start/stop that might mean 12 million gallons - that we don't have to import now under the current Pretendident.
I always thought you were a smart guy. How can you not see restarting your car at every red light does not wear out the starter and flywheel. Hasbeen
i recently bought a 2021 Dodge Challenger RT Scat Pack.
T?he Start/Stop feature is not a part or it. No menu options or dash buttons...........
If it did have it, I can't envision me being late in getting anyplace I need to go because I was forced to touch a computer menu item or a dash button. But I'm not a person who jumps into a vehicle and has it moving in reverse backing up while i'm still trying to get the driver side door shut.
With any vehicle I've owned in the past maybe 30 years, I always give the engine some time (maybe 20 seconds max) to drop off high idle. With my new Challenger I wait a few seconds for the tach to fall into the 900-1000 K rpm's range. So far it hasn't made me late in arriving anywhere. If I was "forced" to push a dash button or a computer menu item in that time frame, I'm betting that I could handle it.... Some people seem to be able to make minutia into a life threatening event.......
The feature is on my wire's car, but so far it hasn't affected her sanity in any way that I can see, at least. But she is a born-that-way high-strung ginger and she has been my wife for years, so maybe I'm numb to looking.
It's only 12 gallons a year for you, but for every car in the country that has start/stop that might mean 12 million gallons - that we don't have to import now under the current Pretendident.
I always thought you were a smart guy. How can you not see restarting your car at every red light does not wear out the starter and flywheel. Hasbeen
I have personal knowledge of 5+ vehicles that have this with many many10's of thousands of miles on them and not a single issue? Friend is a 40+ year (old school) mechanic who has mentioned not a single issue with them at a dealership. He grouses about alot (never ask about Kias) but the auto-start isn't an issue.
UPS and FedEx trucks are turned off at EVERY stop - UPS runs advanced telematics and they've proven the constant starting of the vehicle, with appropriately built starters - non event. Essentially what you're seeing it it's applied to passenger cars.
Commercial truck starters (as in UPS etc) are not the same as those on a passenger car/pickup.. Mucho more 'light duty' by comparison.. FWIW..
The starter installed on a modern auto-start/stop vehicle isn't the same one in a 85 Cutlass either. Technology advances.
The starters and ancillary systems are being specifically built for this feature.
Commercial starters being larger to spin more mass but not made (originally) to be started 60+ times a day - they lived just fine under testing by UPS. So auto makers are building their new wares a bit beefier to handle it.
With what I've seen over the last decade and those that make a living slinging parts telling me they're not slinging them on these - I fret it not.
Commercial truck starters (as in UPS etc) are not the same as those on a passenger car/pickup.. Mucho more 'light duty' by comparison.. FWIW..
The starter installed on a modern auto-start/stop vehicle isn't the same one in a 85 Cutlass either. Technology advances.
The starters and ancillary systems are being specifically built for this feature.
Commercial starters being larger to spin more mass but not made (originally) to be started 60+ times a day - they lived just fine under testing by UPS. So auto makers are building their new wares a bit beefier to handle it.
With what I've seen over the last decade and those that make a living slinging parts telling me they're not slinging them on these - I fret it not.
YMMV.
Yes time marches on. Back when my dad was a auto mechanic. Car engines for some reason pretty much stoped at the same point each time . So when the stater engaged the ring gear on the flywheel it was always in the same location. That made the teeth give out usually on the starter but sometimes on the flywheel. Maybe this has changed. Hasbeen
I'm not saying you're wrong, friend Redneck. But I think the claim of worn starters and flywheels is only an assumption until we see it actually happening. So far, nobody has posted here about such wear - or any cars needing new starters.
Or...one could just buy a Toyota Hybrid. No starter, no alternator, no belts, no pulleys, no transmission. And the start/stop feature is both seamless and transparent to the user. Their all-new super efficient 4-cyl sips gas but is very peppy.
Usually you can shut it off for when you are in stop/start traffic.
I live in the Houston area. It’s always stop and go. But that’s the idea of this after all. Imagine being in stop and go traffic on a freeway where you move 10 feet and stop. Thank goodness my F150 has a switch to disable this great idea. Hasbeen
If that far-fetched scenario is the best you can come with to denigrate the system, Johnny, you're reaching too far.
But just to debunk your fantasy...there is no "cranking delay". By the time you move your foot from brake to gas, the engine is running again. No RrrrRrrrRrrr.
I'm not sure I understand the dislike of the system. In every car I've driven with that system, the engine starts instantly while moving my foot from brake to gas pedal. It is essentially no different than if the engine had stayed running. At all. Move foot - go.
As far as adding wear, I doubt that can be computed over the life of the engine. Today's engines are good for 300,000 miles at least. If start/stop adds wear, will you get only 280,000?
Yes, it may be of zero help with the climate, but the whole man-caused climate change idea is probably false to begin with. So the only effect is to save you a few drops of gas at each stop. That's not a bad thing, is it? Maybe it's only a gallon a month, but with all the cars out there, that's a shipload of gas.
I've generally heard 1/5 of a gallon an hour to idle a vehicle - obviously up/down based on size but average over all. Average 59 hours a year at red lights - so what 12 gallons of gas a year, saves you 36 bucks in fuel. I'm okay with that - especially, as you said, it's basically instant, doesn't seem to cause any mechanical issues.
Some of us have short memories.
Remember when Ford started putting this feature on their trucks?
Remember the issues of development of heavier starters, larger batteries, heavier charging systems to keep that larger battery replenished?
What do you suppose that R&D, and implementation added to the cost of the vehicles?
To me, at the time, it sure sounded like a very expensive answer to a nonexistent problem. And it still does.
Bottom line!
In today's world nobody dares to cross the greenie weenie liberals, or they will destroy you with a media campaign.
If you see a dump truck sliding toward you on wet pavement at a stop light, between that and the traction control feature…You and family are dead !
You won’t stomp the gas to avoid it because you have to wait for the engine to crank then if your wheel spins on wet pavement it bogs the motor down.
You need to post a checklist on the dash to turn both off
On our Toyota, the engine starts in less time than it takes to move your foot from the brake to the gas. If the dump truck hits you, it's because your foot is too slow, not the starter.
This discussion sounds like when I was a kid and all the older guys talking about hating power windows and locks because they were sure to go out all the time.
This discussion sounds like when I was a kid and all the older guys talking about hating power windows and locks because they were sure to go out all the time.
A very good comparison to this tragic and life changing "issue" that eventually might affect every living sou on earth.
Some people adapt and move on.
Other people waste a big part of their lives trying to decide who all hates them the most because of this life changing 'issue" that they now have to cope with daily.
It's still an annoyance, and I do believe it'll cause extra wear and maintenance cost in the long run, but my wife's car starts quicker than anyone can move their right foot to the accelerator pedal.
My Honda Passport SUV has auto idle stop "feature" and I hate it. You do have to press the disable button every time you start the car. I have found a trick though, and verified it with a long piece of wire and a switch. If you start the car with the hood open, the computer thinks a maintenance tech is working on the vehicle so the idle stop is disabled AND the annoying light in the dash not illuminate. Some day when I have a little time I will design a circuit that will simulate this and wire it into the car. Then it will be solved permanently!
I have a 2020 Honda that has that feature. It doesn't really bother me, but all things considered, it is an unnecessary complication. One thing I've noticed is that if I'm light on the brakes, it doesn't engage the engine stop when stopping. The other thing is that if you are running the air conditioning it will restart pretty quick (less than a minute or so) while you are still stopped. I guess the little Honda battery doesn't have enough juice to run the A/C very long. Seems like something that wasn't well though out and just put out there to satisfy a government bureaucrat.
A gas engine Honda? The battery does not run the AC. It only runs the blower fan. After a minute or two with the engine stopped, the AC will start blowing hot air.
I don't like having to pay extra for wheels because they have a tire inflation pressure goodie in them now.
I just want a plain ol' steel wheel for the winter treads on the RAV4,
Whaaaaa,
fuggin guys. Don't like the new features? Buy a reliable older vehicle. Or have Northern Dave or crittergitter restore one for you.
PS, I hate the damn backup camera, I like mirrors........................until I want to get really close without getting out and seeing how much more room I have and then backing up with the door open to check inches.
Clearly, we have posters saying things about a system they have never driven, based on what they imagine it is like. And just as clearly, they are totally wrong.
If you don't like it, fine. I think the complaints are more hyperbole than fact, and that people would get used to it in time. Maybe even come to appreciate it, who knows? In the meantime, the system seems to have few if any faults, works exactly as advertised, is pretty much invisible to the driver, and has had no failures that anyone here has reported. (And if it ever did have a hiccup, there's that button to disable it.)
As far as rebelling against being told how to drive, just go the wrong way on the interstate next time. That'll show 'em.
It's obvious that most commenters do not know how the auto start/stop works.
When you roll up to a stop, the engine shuts off with your foot on the brake.
When the foot is released from the brake the engine starts.
It does not engage the starter (Ford F-150) rather a piston and fuel/air charge are poised for combustion, with the release of the brake the sparkplug fires combusting the mixture , driving the piston down, thus starting the engine. The time period for this is calculated to be an average signal light stop. So a very long stop the starter will be engaged, but mostly it won't engage.
On the Ford I tried to defeat the system. basically stopped , foot on brake engine stopped. Remove foot from brake and mash gas peddle as fast as I can. With traction control off, all I get is tire smoke, no delay at all.
You will get a shudder as one poster related to, but you have to be fast on the brake to throttle transition. Just releasing the brake the engine will start.
Normal driving it is unnoticeable.
The Ford F 150 is the biggest in sales in the industry, these days each new series is better than the last, that is why sales are above anything else in the category.
the last car we got has this. it's pretty seamless and i doubt it saves that much gas. i have gotten used to it. as a certified geezer and prototype baby boomer (born 10/46), i can agree that many things have gone south, but i don't think vehicles are that way.
Haven't bought a vehicle in about 7 years. Every single one of them these days seems to have this "feature". Whenever you come to a complete stop at a light with your foot on the brake, it turns the dang engine off and waits for you to start pulling your foot off the brake. Then it starts the engine again. WTF over. Yet another incredibly asinine idea, thanks to the green idiots out there.
Just a stupid as the V8 motors that turn off cylinders while driving. They both cause undue wear on the engines.
the last car we got has this. it's pretty seamless and i doubt it saves that much gas. i have gotten used to it. as a certified geezer and prototype baby boomer (born 10/46), i can agree that many things have gone south, but i don't think vehicles are that way.
what year was the apex of car and truck quality?
The apex has not been reached, still on the uphill side .
These days if a vehicle power train does not last at least 200 000 miles it is junk or has not been maintained.
The Merle Haggard crowd ( ford and chevy's lasting 10 years) would not survive in todays market place.
The way Axtell explained it is true. The restart DOES NOT USE THE STARTER MOTOR. Read that again, all you "starter wear" and "wait for it to avoid the dump truck" posters.
i recently bought a 2021 Dodge Challenger RT Scat Pack.
T?he Start/Stop feature is not a part or it. No menu options or dash buttons...........
If it did have it, I can't envision me being late in getting anyplace I need to go because I was forced to touch a computer menu item or a dash button. But I'm not a person who jumps into a vehicle and has it moving in reverse backing up while i'm still trying to get the driver side door shut.
With any vehicle I've owned in the past maybe 30 years, I always give the engine some time (maybe 20 seconds max) to drop off high idle. With my new Challenger I wait a few seconds for the tach to fall into the 900-1000 K rpm's range. So far it hasn't made me late in arriving anywhere. If I was "forced" to push a dash button or a computer menu item in that time frame, I'm betting that I could handle it.... Some people seem to be able to make minutia into a life threatening event.......
The feature is on my wire's car, but so far it hasn't affected her sanity in any way that I can see, at least. But she is a born-that-way high-strung ginger and she has been my wife for years, so maybe I'm numb to looking.
The last car I drove that had that feature was a rental car. A Chevy Malibu. It acted like a gas golf cart. Just step on the pedal and it goes. Good God there are some car Karens here. Watch a couple automotive channels on Toutube. You don't see starter replacement videos because of the sot off deal.
Or, you can spend a few dollars and buy a bypass harness that doesn't affect the electronics other than disabling this feature. It takes less than one beer to install it.
I did not buy a 180 mph Porsche wanting this feature. As such, the button is pushed at start up every time. My wife is no different and does not rocket the car like I do. She just doesn't like it. Go figure.
Putting politics, global warming, inconvenience, and personal opinion aside....
Most here clearly have no idea how these systems work.
They do NOT have a negative impact on vehicle reliability. Areas of additional wear and tear have been over-engineered to support the system.
1) The starters are nothing like old starters: They have unique bearing designs. They have unique, advanced brush designs. They engage and disengage completely differently than old starters, and spin at different rates and stop quicker (important, because most brush wear doesn't actually comes from starting, but from starter spin down AFTER the start).
2) The restarts happen with a warm engine and warn oil still in the system
3) Some vehicles have electric pumps that continue to circulate coolant while the car is off
4) Generally, the transmission is put unto neutral during auto stop-starts, versus sitting in drive while stopped, reducing wear.
5) Bearing design (main engine bearings, starter bearings) are more advanced, designed withstand 3 to 4 times the number of COLD starts (let alone these warm starts) compared to vehicles 5 or 10 years ago.
In a nutshell: Is auto stop-start bad for a car? No.
Does it require more components that could fail someday? That's probably a fair argument.
Does it provide a bad user experience? Probably brand specific and user preference.
The way Axtell explained it is true. The restart DOES NOT USE THE STARTER MOTOR. Read that again, all you "starter wear" and "wait for it to avoid the dump truck" posters.
Not exactly true. Depends on the system. But even those that DO use the starter motor, it's not like cranking your engine for the first time of the day... There are a handful of unique implementations of auto start-stop but the take-away is, it is nothing like like you are turning the key to START each time. (so, agree with you)
My wife has a Cadillac XT5 with this feature and likes it. I can't stand it. I rarely drive her car so I don't think much about it. I'd rather drive my Duramax.
Or...one could just buy a Toyota Hybrid. No starter, no alternator, no belts, no pulleys, no transmission. And the start/stop feature is both seamless and transparent to the user. Their all-new super efficient 4-cyl sips gas but is very peppy.
I had one of those for a few days as a rental recently, and for getting around town I was actually quite impressed. A lot of the time it just ran on electrical power, and the petrol motor would smoothly come on line when needed. It used very little petrol.
My usual vehicle is a diesel 4x4, and the Toyota clearly is designed for a different sort of use, but if all I needed was something to get around town I could happily live with one.
On the auto stop thing, I remember finding it strange when I first drove one of these. I didn't like it either. However I driven a few of them now, by different makers, and they don't bother me at all. Like others have said, by the time your foot comes of the brake the motor's running. Cars nowadays, at least here, are getting to the stage where you get at least 5 years warranty, and 6 and even 10 year warranties are appearing - the makers must have faith that they are going to last.
I'm much more exercised by some of the other things going on cars to take control from the driver. I drove a vehicle recently that was like driving with a particularly nervous nanna. Come up a bit quick behind someone and the seat would shake, a red light come on in the HUD and the brakes pull you up. Go to make a quick lane change into a gap a bit narrower than nanna likes and she'd refuse to allow it. Even little stuff like locking the doors as we drive away - if I want the doors locked I'll lock them, nanna!
wifes equinox has this ,i went on a few web sites and figured out how to turn it off. you have to go to manual shift on the transmission and shift thru all gears while sitting still .it turns it off.
If that far-fetched scenario is the best you can come with to denigrate the system, Johnny, you're reaching too far.
But just to debunk your fantasy...there is no "cranking delay". By the time you move your foot from brake to gas, the engine is running again. No RrrrRrrrRrrr.
Not true or you’d never notice it. There is a delay
Another scenario is you pull off the side of the road for some reason, gun it to merge into traffic, motor is off, then a wheel slips and bogs your motor down. It was bad enough before with just the traction control. Another scenario is when driving in iffy conditions off road, yes 4x4 disables these things but many folk don’t engage 4x4 until they need it or think they need it. Traction control bogs the system down causing you to stop forward motion and auto stop engages.
Ain’t my fault you guys only drive to get beer and lottery tickets and never encounter these situations. Not my fault you are so slow or brain dead you never notice it.
I rented a F150 when my Silverado was in the body shop due to some damage. It had that feature. It didnt hurt me any but I simply didnt care for it. At first I didn't know what was going on but figured it out after two stop lights. I would opt to cut it off. Was pretty noisy restarting but I didn't notice any operational issues. One thing I did think of was that in a normal trip to my office I hit 20-25 stop lights one way. 40-50 starts a day lot more starter engagements than the 2 in my 2017 Chevy. Would seem thats a lot of wear and tear on the starting system. I probably dont keep my trucks long enough to worry about it. I am due to trade this year.
And once again, the restart method does not use the starter motor. The engine stops with one cylinder poised at the ignition point. When you release the brake pedal, that spark fires and the engine is running again faster than you can detect it. It seems like magic and it functions a bit like the "pause" button in a video; the action stops instantly and then starts again - instantly. You have to be paying VERY close attention to even realize it's happening.
There are other things in modern cars that need to be turned off, such as that dangerous lane keeping feature, but start/stop is not among them.
And once again, the restart method does not use the starter motor. The engine stops with one cylinder poised at the ignition point. When you release the brake pedal, that spark fires and the engine is running again faster than you can detect it. It seems like magic and it functions a bit like the "pause" button in a video; the action stops instantly and then starts again - instantly. You have to be paying VERY close attention to even realize it's happening.
There are other things in modern cars that need to be turned off, such as that dangerous lane keeping feature, but start/stop is not among them.
It may be that way on some, but not my 2020 GMC truck. It even states in the owners manual that the starter is designed for all of the additional starts. It's the first thing I shut off after I start the truck.
PS - It's a good day when you find a solution!! Just ordered this BYPASS.
It may be that way on some, but not my 2020 GMC truck. It even states in the owners manual that the starter is designed for all of the additional starts. It's the first thing I shut off after I start the truck.
PS - It's a good day when you find a solution!! Just ordered this BYPASS.
I'm not saying you're wrong, friend Redneck. But I think the claim of worn starters and flywheels is only an assumption until we see it actually happening. So far, nobody has posted here about such wear - or any cars needing new starters.
Or...one could just buy a Toyota Hybrid. No starter, no alternator, no belts, no pulleys, no transmission. And the start/stop feature is both seamless and transparent to the user. Their all-new super efficient 4-cyl sips gas but is very peppy.
Rocky; Top of the morning to you sir, I hope the day's looking to be a good one for you folks down in Utah.
My wife picked up a new Rav4 Hybrd in 2019 when they changed from a rear differential to all electric rear drive. While it's still comparatively early days 2 years in, she's had zero issues with it, as in none.
The fuel economy is nearly as good as our '90 Jetta turbo diesel, which is 5.3liters/100km on average.
From what I can read, that 4 cylinder motor is 48% efficient, which is of course crazy good. As you said to, when she stands on it's tail the thing moves out smartly. I believe that my mildly modified '03 Dodge with the 5.9 Cummins might take it on a mountain pass, but it's not terrible either, surprisingly so.
It's not quite as good on icy conditions as her '09 Forester was, but again, not terrible and way, WAY better than the 4x4 pickup on slick roads and ice - even if we're both running similar snowflake rated tires.
Anyways, samples of one and all that, but so far the thing has been push the button and drive.
For those interested in the Toyota drive system, here's the best explanation I've seen on it.
As to the starter issue. The only vehicles I've driven with start/stop used the "pre-charged cylinder" method of restart. I was unaware that some other vehicles were of a lower level of technology still using the starter. But what can you expect from GMC, huh? Their engineers are probably still using PC IIs and Win 95.
So, by way of apology to any of you suffering with such ancient technology, I think I'd disable the system, too.
It's obvious that most commenters do not know how the auto start/stop works.
When you roll up to a stop, the engine shuts off with your foot on the brake.
When the foot is released from the brake the engine starts.
It does not engage the starter (Ford F-150) rather a piston and fuel/air charge are poised for combustion, with the release of the brake the sparkplug fires combusting the mixture , driving the piston down, thus starting the engine. The time period for this is calculated to be an average signal light stop. So a very long stop the starter will be engaged, but mostly it won't engage.
On the Ford I tried to defeat the system. basically stopped , foot on brake engine stopped. Remove foot from brake and mash gas peddle as fast as I can. With traction control off, all I get is tire smoke, no delay at all.
You will get a shudder as one poster related to, but you have to be fast on the brake to throttle transition. Just releasing the brake the engine will start.
Normal driving it is unnoticeable.
The Ford F 150 is the biggest in sales in the industry, these days each new series is better than the last, that is why sales are above anything else in the category.
I don't believe this information is totally accurate. Ford and other systems do use selective cylinder fuel injection/ spark firing to supplement starting during the Auto Start/Stop function, but they rely on a higher Amp/Hr battery and needle bearing, high torque gear driven starters as primary start function. The gear driven starter turns slower and has less free spin after deactivation which decreases brush wear, the primary failure of modern automobile starters. These starters are speculated to have 500,000 life starts compared to 50,000 life starts of normal automobile starters. The Auto Start/Stop fuel ignition system only works if engine is warm and at normal operating temperature, the Start/Stop doesn't function if car is not warmed up either.
Who in the holy fugk would want or opt for a vehicle that shuts down and starts every time to come to a stop?
I can understand sheeple saying “it hasn’t broken on mine yet” but JFC. Some folks live and drive more than a block from the dealership or repair shop.
More shidt to break. And a total abortion in concept and execution.
Cylinder start, starter start, unicorn piss or even if God himself breaths life into it to make it move again I would still turn it off. If my truck quits running for any other reason than me turning it off it's a defect. On economy cars great, I've never owned a car and never will. If a person is worried about fuel savings then maybe they shouldn't buy a full size truck??
Who in the holy fugk would want or opt for a vehicle that shuts down and starts every time to come to a stop?
I can understand sheeple saying “it hasn’t broken on mine yet” but JFC. Some folks live and drive more than a block from the dealership or repair shop.
More shidt to break. And a total abortion in concept and execution.
Over engineered stupid idea to me too. Look at it this way...if they were to charge you $1k for this option on the green deal package...would you buy it? No? Then they just force it upon you.
If they want to save gas a cup of gas that bad then go Amish and horse and buggy it to work.
Over engineered stupid idea to me too. Look at it this way...if they were to charge you $1k for this option on the green deal package...would you buy it? No? Then they just force it upon you.
If they want to save gas a cup of gas that bad then go Amish and horse and buggy it to work.
I have two vehicles that have that feature, an Audi and a Porsche, and both allow disabling said feature.
Same here, but being European vehicles, the law in Europe requires the car to start up in the auto shutoff mode, requiring one to turn it off each time you start it.
My wife's new 2021 Jeep Grand Cherokee Trail Hawk has the same bullchit. I have to remember to push the disable button every time I drive the damn thing. What a pain in the arse.
Maybe the f150 I rented had an issue but when everyone that rides with you asks if the truck is ok when it shudders on the restart at every light then thats not barely noticible. I’m not interested in learning to beat the system by playing around feathering the brake and gas pedal. I would just turn the dang thing off. I would image some vehicles may be less noticable. I’m one to generally accept advancements but this is one Ford needs more work on.
Haven't bought a vehicle in about 7 years. Every single one of them these days seems to have this "feature". Whenever you come to a complete stop at a light with your foot on the brake, it turns the dang engine off and waits for you to start pulling your foot off the brake. Then it starts the engine again. WTF over. Yet another incredibly asinine idea, thanks to the green idiots out there.
There plenty of newly designed "improvements" on late model vehicles that are junk but the auto start/stop feature has not been an issue, IME, and will likely be more trouble-free than your old starter. Now if you were complaining about Controlled Variable Transmissions, polymer oil pans, etc, I'm right there with ya!
But I digress - I wonder how many of these idiotic start/stop vehicles have had to replace the starters? Probably too new yet to quantify, but there's NO question that it WILL be necessary a few times before the end of its life.. All to save a bucket of gas... Stoooooopid to the max.. YMMV.
