The fire season thread made me think of this article about the current drought in the west. In short, we’ve been here four times before since AD 800, but this one is a doozy.
“In September of 2020, I reported on a recent study from Columbia University that was published in Science Advances, that the western U.S. has experienced one of its driest 20-year periods in approximately 1,000 years. Despite a few wet years, the southwestern regions may be in the midst of another “megadrought,” which, according to tree ring data, can last for decades. Since 800 A.D., evidence shows that there have been four previous megadroughts. They occurred in the late 800s, the mid-1100s, the 1200s and the late 1500s.
Researchers compared soil moisture records calculated since 2000 and concluded that the current drought is “already outdoing the three earliest ones.” The worst megadrought in the West likely occurred from 1575 to 1603. The article also states that the ancient droughts went on at least for several decades, but the one in the 1200s lasted for nearly a century.”
What a colossal lie. Every year and every condition always becomes the worst ever. They forget the dry years leading up to the fires in Yellowstone in 1988, when it had been so dry for years previous that the moisture content in the dead trees in Yellowstone was lower than what you would find in the wood furniture in your house. But, that isn't relevant now, because they want to make a point and scream "The Sky is falling" and "The earth is burning up."
No matter what the condition, it will always be catastrophic, because normal isn't interesting.
Thanks for that writeup. there is hardly a doubt that the tree rings are somewhat accurate too. The sad part it is that many will think it is climate change and crap like that.
I love the mountain west states. The scenic beauty, the history, the vast open space, and the culture but reading all of these post about droughts and the dried up lakes and creek beds makes me appreciate my home state of Michigan. We have our problems but drought or lack of water is never a serious problem here.
I’ve put in my order as well, but haven’t got the confirmation email......
I just hope it’s one of those “couple of decades” droughts. If it’s going to be like the one that lasted over 100 years there would be some changes around these parts.
We have had a sheitload of rain this year, my pastures are knee deep and I'm overstocked. Learned a long time ago to never complain about rain and baby calves.
I remember reading somewhere several years ago that the last century had been one of the wettest in several thousand years in the West and that much of the Western US would be pretty much uninhabitable at current population levels if things returned to climatic normal.
Don't forget the dust bowl days in the midwest that went on for a decade. Combined with the depression, it really put the whammy on a bunch of people. Besides the dry, the farming practices of the time dumped millions of tons of dust in the air.
Since 800 A.D., evidence shows that there have been four previous megadroughts. They occurred in the late 800s, the mid-1100s, the 1200s and the late 1500s.
Researchers compared soil moisture records calculated since 2000 and concluded that the current drought is “already outdoing the three earliest ones.” The worst megadrought in the West likely occurred from 1575 to 1603. The article also states that the ancient droughts went on at least for several decades, but the one in the 1200s lasted for nearly a century.”
I'm not real smart, but is anyone else confused by this? We are in a 20 year drought.
The text says it's out doing the first three, then says they lasted SEVERAL decades. Then says the third lasted for "nearly a century".
I've often wondered why instead of our foreign military adventures we haven't spent our money right here. I would imagine for way less money and heartbreak we could have gotten Great Lakes water over the hump and into the arid West. Also considering all the angst over sea level and coastal erosion. We have mountains of rocks that could have been moved to build sea walls such as Galveston built over 100 years ago. We have plenty of water and plenty of rocks and plenty of people that should be working on it.
Am I the only one that sees the “severe drought” area and thinks, of course it dry there, it’s a fuggin desert! Places like Vegas, Phoenix and southern Utah were not meant for human habitation! Cracks me up when people say “It’s hot and dry here.” No [bleep] Sherlock!
What a colossal lie. Every year and every condition always becomes the worst ever. They forget the dry years leading up to the fires in Yellowstone in 1988, when it had been so dry for years previous that the moisture content in the dead trees in Yellowstone was lower than what you would find in the wood furniture in your house. But, that isn't relevant now, because they want to make a point and scream "The Sky is falling" and "The earth is burning up."
No matter what the condition, it will always be catastrophic, because normal isn't interesting.
uhhh say what? you haven't seen the country I have seen. I buried my truck in flour dust last fall in the nevada high desert. vast areas have been burned. its like the grim reaper has been through and killed pretty much everything. jackrabbits, all dead, coyotes nearly all dead. heck even birds and flying varmints, nearly all dead. the drought is real, very real. look at the lake depths of lake powell and lake mead. the lowest since before they were ever full.
I live in the “exceptional drought” area of ND on the map shown above. I’m 47 and have never seen the coulee I live on as dry as it is now. It flowed water year round from 2011-2013 and this spring it was dusty and my neighbor dug 15 side dumps of black dirt out of the bottom of it to do some landscaping. Very little precipitation of any kind for 3 years now, this year being the worst.
The desert in SW Wyoming is as dry as I’ve ever seen it. Every beef cow, wild horse,antelope, deer, and elk I see looks pretty desperate for something to drink. Obviously they’re finding it from somewhere, or they wouldn’t be alive. But I bet they have to look far and wide.
I am in southeast Arizona. We have had less than five inches of rain since January 2020. Normal would be 12+. Prickly pear cactus and barrel cactus are dying. Saguaros are looking pretty sick. Heard there are 20 fires burning in Arizona. Interstate 10 was closed yesterday between Benson and Willcox because the walnut fire jumped the freeway. Reservoirs are at record low levels.
Meteorologists are saying there is a good chance this year will be better than last year. They are basing that forecast on the fact that 1929 was the only recorded year that was worse than last year. They aren't saying whether it will be average, above average or below average. Only that it will be better than last year. Pretty safe forecast.
I’ve put in my order as well, but haven’t got the confirmation email......
I just hope it’s one of those “couple of decades” droughts. If it’s going to be like the one that lasted over 100 years there would be some changes around these parts.
Supposed to be 110 here on Sunday and triple digits for a week at least. Only 67 at the Oregon coast at the same time. Good time to be there and not here.
I've often wondered why instead of our foreign military adventures we haven't spent our money right here. I would imagine for way less money and heartbreak we could have gotten Great Lakes water over the hump and into the arid West. Also considering all the angst over sea level and coastal erosion. We have mountains of rocks that could have been moved to build sea walls such as Galveston built over 100 years ago. We have plenty of water and plenty of rocks and plenty of people that should be working on it.
That sort of idea is why the Colorado River now disappears into the sand, well short of its original destination, leaving those who formerly depended on it downstream in the lurch, and politicians deciding winners and losers where the stolen water ends up. IMO, desalinization of seawater is the logical solution to Kali’s problem, but that takes a lot of energy, and we all know how evil most energy is. Dams can help, but they’ve managed to screw those up as well. Nothing is going to help in the wilderness areas except Time. Twas ever thus, and ever shall be. Futzing around with natural cycles is a fool’s errand.
Yeah, there's already enough issues with moving water from one drainage to another. In more than a few places.
The Trinity river in NorCal is dammed and then pumped "over the hill" to the Sacramento drainage.
But, let's pump some of that Great Lakes water over the Rockies to the West. We need more quagga and zebra mussels, maybe some sea lamprey juveniles too. Some of them jumping carp too.
I've often wondered why instead of our foreign military adventures we haven't spent our money right here. I would imagine for way less money and heartbreak we could have gotten Great Lakes water over the hump and into the arid West. Also considering all the angst over sea level and coastal erosion. We have mountains of rocks that could have been moved to build sea walls such as Galveston built over 100 years ago. We have plenty of water and plenty of rocks and plenty of people that should be working on it.
That sort of idea is why the Colorado River now disappears into the sand, well short of its original destination, leaving those who formerly depended on it downstream in the lurch, and politicians deciding winners and losers where the stolen water ends up. IMO, desalinization of seawater is the logical solution to Kali’s problem, but that takes a lot of energy, and we all know how evil most energy is. Dams can help, but they’ve managed to screw those up as well. Nothing is going to help in the wilderness areas except Time. Twas ever thus, and ever shall be. Futzing around with natural cycles is a fool’s errand.
Check out what I wrote. Was proposing moving excess Great Lakes water across the divide and rocks to the coast instead of spending our national treasure on foreign adventures that have brought us and the world nothing but misery.
Tying the water problem to foreign adventuring is a good diversion, but that sort of environmental adventuring is just a bad, bad idea. There is no excess water in the Great Lakes, there’s just the water that the climate systems have put there. The stuff Valsdad mentioned is only the beginning of sorrows that could be unleashed. What about the humongous impact on the places the diverted water would travel through for starters?
Gotta love a chart that doesn't actually define it's scale. What exactly is "Abnormally" compare to historical norms? It smacks of agenda driven chartology.
What a colossal lie. Every year and every condition always becomes the worst ever. They forget the dry years leading up to the fires in Yellowstone in 1988, when it had been so dry for years previous that the moisture content in the dead trees in Yellowstone was lower than what you would find in the wood furniture in your house. But, that isn't relevant now, because they want to make a point and scream "The Sky is falling" and "The earth is burning up."
No matter what the condition, it will always be catastrophic, because normal isn't interesting.
They're prepping everybody for the big excuse about energy problems.
Gotta love a chart that doesn't actually define it's scale. What exactly is "Abnormally" compare to historical norms? It smacks of agenda driven chartology.
Tying the water problem to foreign adventuring is a good diversion, but that sort of environmental adventuring is just a bad, bad idea. There is no excess water in the Great Lakes, there’s just the water that the climate systems have put there. The stuff Valsdad mentioned is only the beginning of sorrows that could be unleashed. What about the humongous impact on the places the diverted water would travel through for starters?
Not to mention I seem to remember a few years back when the Lakes were in trouble themselves with shorelines exposed that had not been seen in decades.
Do "we" as a society start moving water from one area to help another thrive, only to find out when the drought shifts to the Midwest and the West that "we" would just have to close the tap on all those folks that now need it?
Maybe "our" resources would be better spent incentivizing businesses and folks to stay where the water is?
Tying the water problem to foreign adventuring is a good diversion, but that sort of environmental adventuring is just a bad, bad idea. There is no excess water in the Great Lakes, there’s just the water that the climate systems have put there. The stuff Valsdad mentioned is only the beginning of sorrows that could be unleashed. What about the humongous impact on the places the diverted water would travel through for starters?
You may be right. There are always unintended consequences. Sometimes good, most often bad. Look at what our annexation of the Philippines and our entry into WW1 set in motion.
West coast gets snow rain in winter months when the Jet Stream drops down to the level of the Bay area ±. In the summer, the Jet Stream parks itself at the US/Canada border, and that dries things out.
Gotta love a chart that doesn't actually define it's scale. What exactly is "Abnormally" compare to historical norms? It smacks of agenda driven chartology.
Pugs, pretty good definitions and description of how that chart is made on their website
Quote
What is the USDM
Maybe you’ve seen it in the media: that map of the U.S. painted with blobs of yellow,orange and red. It shows drought – but how do we know which colors go where? Who decides? What does it mean for you? Read below to find out.
The two easiest for me to see and understand are the "CPC soil moisture models" and the "USGS weekly streamflow" both of which are percentile rankings.
Right now our area is in the 1-5 percentile of soil moisture and 1% of normal streamflow. Those are pretty low measurements by any standard.
It may be a little bit of scientific mumbo jumbo..................................but it's decent mumbo jumbo for what that's worth.
Gotta love a chart that doesn't actually define it's scale. What exactly is "Abnormally" compare to historical norms? It smacks of agenda driven chartology.
I've often wondered why instead of our foreign military adventures we haven't spent our money right here. I would imagine for way less money and heartbreak we could have gotten Great Lakes water over the hump and into the arid West. Also considering all the angst over sea level and coastal erosion. We have mountains of rocks that could have been moved to build sea walls such as Galveston built over 100 years ago. We have plenty of water and plenty of rocks and plenty of people that should be working on it.
That horrifically bad idea has been proposed multiple times. Thankfully the Great Lake states have told the whiny overpopulated arid West to go pound sand.
I've often wondered why instead of our foreign military adventures we haven't spent our money right here. I would imagine for way less money and heartbreak we could have gotten Great Lakes water over the hump and into the arid West. Also considering all the angst over sea level and coastal erosion. We have mountains of rocks that could have been moved to build sea walls such as Galveston built over 100 years ago. We have plenty of water and plenty of rocks and plenty of people that should be working on it.
Maybe you’ve seen it in the media: that map of the U.S. painted with blobs of yellow,orange and red. It shows drought – but how do we know which colors go where? Who decides? What does it mean for you? Read below to find out.
The two easiest for me to see and understand are the "CPC soil moisture models" and the "USGS weekly streamflow" both of which are percentile rankings.
Right now our area is in the 1-5 percentile of soil moisture and 1% of normal streamflow. Those are pretty low measurements by any standard.
It may be a little bit of scientific mumbo jumbo..................................but it's decent mumbo jumbo for what that's worth.
Gotcha - Bad chartsmanship then - you define it on the chart and don't make people go elsewhere that info. It would be an even better chart if they didn't call it a drought chart and instead covered their scale. Many of those white areas (including mine) are above normal rain this year.
we got almost 4.5 inches here in North Florida yesterday. Until recently, we were in a drought. It's cyclical.
Officially, we've had 4.344".......................since Jan 1.
If it doesn't rain for a month back east, folks are in a drought. It's based on averages.
We haven't had significant rain in about 3 months now. A couple of events at 0.01'-0.02", but nothing to change soil moisture or stream flow.
I bet that 4.5" soaked your area pretty good. But, if it doesn't rain there again for a few weeks, you'll be in a drought again.
Ours, even with a good storm, will likely continue into next year because our place is too dry to catch up anytime soon. Maybe, and a big maybe, if we have a good snow season next winter, we'll come out of this drought.
Our cycles just last a little bit longer than back east.
I've often wondered why instead of our foreign military adventures we haven't spent our money right here. I would imagine for way less money and heartbreak we could have gotten Great Lakes water over the hump and into the arid West. Also considering all the angst over sea level and coastal erosion. We have mountains of rocks that could have been moved to build sea walls such as Galveston built over 100 years ago. We have plenty of water and plenty of rocks and plenty of people that should be working on it.
That sort of idea is why the Colorado River now disappears into the sand, well short of its original destination, leaving those who formerly depended on it downstream in the lurch, and politicians deciding winners and losers where the stolen water ends up. IMO, desalinization of seawater is the logical solution to Kali’s problem, but that takes a lot of energy, and we all know how evil most energy is. Dams can help, but they’ve managed to screw those up as well. Nothing is going to help in the wilderness areas except Time. Twas ever thus, and ever shall be. Futzing around with natural cycles is a fool’s errand.
Check out what I wrote. Was proposing moving excess Great Lakes water across the divide and rocks to the coast instead of spending our national treasure on foreign adventures that have brought us and the world nothing but misery.
How much excess water do you think there is in the Great Lakes? There are thousands of rivers and streams flowing into the lakes, but the only real outlet is the St.Lawrence River that flows to the Atlantic. Each year all of the water flowing into the Great Lakes only adds about 1% to the volume of water in the system (per The Great Lakes Guide. I don't know how to do links, sorry). That 1% makes its way through the St. Lawrence to the Atlantic.
If you were to divert the St. Lawrence to the western states, it likely wouldn't be a drop in the bucket compared to need. Canada might have a bit of a problem with the idea of diverting the river. Pretty major waterway that runs through Canada.
If you leave the St. Lawrence alone and build a major pipeline, say, from Chicago; how long will the Great Lakes last? How much water do you propose to pump west? Lake Superior would be okay, it flows into Lake Huron by way of the St. Marys river. Lake Huron and Lake Michigan are really the same lake, so that is where you will drain your water from. As you pull water out of the system at Chicago, water is still flowing out of Lake Huron through the St. Clair river. Right up until you drop the lake level in Huron/Michigan below the level of the bottom of the St. Clair. Now the St.Clair no longer flows into Lake St. Clair. The Detroit River will continue to flow out of Lake St. Clair, into Lake Erie, until Lake St. Clair drops to the level where the Detroit River dries up. The Niagara River will keep pulling water out of Erie, and into Lake Ontario. Lake Erie will drop to the point where the Niagara no longer flows. Of course the St. Lawrence river is still going to be flowing. Right up until the level of Lake Ontario drops to below outlet level.
I don't know how long it would take for the above to happen, but it would happen. Keep in mind that the system gets only about 1% new water each year. Probably wouldn't really take all that long. Once you start lowering the lakes, what happens to the local aquifers? I'm about 10 miles inland from Saginaw Bay on Lake Huron. My well is 44 feet. When the water level of Lake Huron drops about 20 feet, Saginaw Bay is gone. Only thing left would be the shipping channel, but there wouldn't be enough depth for ships. Can't imagine that isn't going to affect my aquifer.
Let's not forget that Canada has a fairly vested interest in the Great Lakes system. I don't imagine they would agree to drain the lakes.
I do agree with you that we spend way too much money on foreign ventures.
Maybe you’ve seen it in the media: that map of the U.S. painted with blobs of yellow,orange and red. It shows drought – but how do we know which colors go where? Who decides? What does it mean for you? Read below to find out.
The two easiest for me to see and understand are the "CPC soil moisture models" and the "USGS weekly streamflow" both of which are percentile rankings.
Right now our area is in the 1-5 percentile of soil moisture and 1% of normal streamflow. Those are pretty low measurements by any standard.
It may be a little bit of scientific mumbo jumbo..................................but it's decent mumbo jumbo for what that's worth.
Gotcha - Bad chartsmanship then - you define it on the chart and don't make people go elsewhere that info. It would be an even better chart if they didn't call it a drought chart and instead covered their scale. Many of those white areas (including mine) are above normal rain this year.
Yeah, I wondered about the white areas, but then I figured they're just accounting for drought, not total rainfall/snowfall. And yeah, a better chart would try to explain it right there, at least that's what I was taught. Probably another case of appealing to the lowest common denominator? Some folks just like the pretty pictures and say "Ooooh and Ahhhh".
The thing is, they seem to have done their research, they just don't present it so well. There's a whole lot there to communicate though.
The charts are pretty accurate to what is seen on the landscape around here.
100 hour fuels at low levels many have never seen.
Piñon juniper, cedar stands dying off.
Springs drying up that some of the old timers have never seen run dry. No tank water.
I guess the saving grace to some of it is, a lot of our fires haven’t grown to potential due to having no fine/ladder fuels to cary them.
Unfortunately, I think a lot of our wildlife is going to be at a breaking point real soon. In a lot of areas, producers are the only thing keeping wildlife.
got a whole ocean just sitting there. Desalinize it and pump it to Lake Mead and supporting reservoir systems.
It should be bi-partisan support, even at a cost that is considered staggering.
All of that so "we" can support folks there in almost all of SoCal, Southern NV, low elevation AZ, who want a lawn, two showers a day, a car wash every week, non desert plants in the yard, an uncovered pool evaporating in the low humidity, fuggin giant spraying fountains in a freakin' desert (which evaporate even in winter due to the extremely low humidity).
No thank you.
Why not force LA, San Diego, Riverside and San Bernadino county, Las Vegas, Phoenix metro area etc to reclaim their sewage water, pump it back upstream and over the mountains, pass it through some marshes and put it back in the rivers?
Oh, and maybe put some limits on growth? (oops, no one wants to hear that)
Tying the water problem to foreign adventuring is a good diversion, but that sort of environmental adventuring is just a bad, bad idea. There is no excess water in the Great Lakes, there’s just the water that the climate systems have put there. The stuff Valsdad mentioned is only the beginning of sorrows that could be unleashed. What about the humongous impact on the places the diverted water would travel through for starters?
Speaking of diversions, one smart thing the Canucks did was block the Garrison Diversion project. As I understand it, water from the Garrison Dam in ND ( and maybe the next one downstream in SD?) would have been pumped over into the Red River Valley of ND/MN for irrigation. Run-off would have gone into the Red, and Eventually into Hudson's Bay.
Concern over invasive/non-native species........but mostly over chemicals- insecticides, fertilizers, etc.
Still, the water came in handy for Bakken.
I do wonder however about the species thing. Has it been long enough since the last glaciation for species to diverge/establish that much differently?
The Missouri used to drain into Hudson. See that big bend in the middle of ND? That's where the glacier changed the river's course. I grew up there, and my Dad was the crane operator for the first four surge towers built at Garrison.
Interesting country.
Desalinazation using Nuke works, as the Saudis and others have proven.
Of course, not watering a gazzilion lawns and golf courses would improve things somewhat also.
I remember the tv show - guys harvesting OLD Redwood trees that had fallen . They would put little copper plates on the tree rings going back in history - some going back to the days Christ walked the earth . I think they said one drought in the Northern California region last for 150 years .
When I first moved to California in 1989 it was the start of a 5 year drought. The week the drought broke I remember taking my son to daycare in the heavy rain. The children were all clustered at the doors and windows looking out. They were all too young to have seen water fall from the sky. I don't recall the local water district calling for reductions in water use during those five years. Nor do we have any restrictions today. The city of Santa Barbara has a modern desalination plant which has been unused for many years because the locals don't want more people moving there, and limiting the water supply prevents new hookups. Most of the hand wringing I'm seeing about the drought is about hydroelectric for power generation. After driving all the power plants out of state the solar advocates are coming to grips with the fact that the sun doesn't shine at night. I'm hoping for some "green outs" in the run up to the gubernatorial recall vote so I can go up and down the street reminding my neighbors these situations arise from policy decisions, not mother nature.
got a whole ocean just sitting there. Desalinize it and pump it to Lake Mead and supporting reservoir systems.
It should be bi-partisan support, even at a cost that is considered staggering.
All of that so "we" can support folks there in almost all of SoCal, Southern NV, low elevation AZ, who want a lawn, two showers a day, a car wash every week, non desert plants in the yard, an uncovered pool evaporating in the low humidity, fuggin giant spraying fountains in a freakin' desert (which evaporate even in winter due to the extremely low humidity).
No thank you.
Why not force LA, San Diego, Riverside and San Bernadino county, Las Vegas, Phoenix metro area etc to reclaim their sewage water, pump it back upstream and over the mountains, pass it through some marshes and put it back in the rivers?
Oh, and maybe put some limits on growth? (oops, no one wants to hear that)
its not just growth, its the agriculture of California and the other regions. They have pumped the aquifers so much that the state has literally dropped like 2 inches. I could care less about a guy being able to wash his car, but when they are draining lakes, rivers and aquifers dry trying to keep food growing to feed this nation, then its time to address what needs to be done to keep it going.
We don't think twice about running oil pipelines to provide us with cheaper oil. A water pipeline to provide Americans, especially American farmers, with the same water the rest of us take for granted doesn't seem unreasonable to me.
got a whole ocean just sitting there. Desalinize it and pump it to Lake Mead and supporting reservoir systems.
It should be bi-partisan support, even at a cost that is considered staggering.
All of that so "we" can support folks there in almost all of SoCal, Southern NV, low elevation AZ, who want a lawn, two showers a day, a car wash every week, non desert plants in the yard, an uncovered pool evaporating in the low humidity, fuggin giant spraying fountains in a freakin' desert (which evaporate even in winter due to the extremely low humidity).
No thank you.
Why not force LA, San Diego, Riverside and San Bernadino county, Las Vegas, Phoenix metro area etc to reclaim their sewage water, pump it back upstream and over the mountains, pass it through some marshes and put it back in the rivers?
Oh, and maybe put some limits on growth? (oops, no one wants to hear that)
its not just growth, its the agriculture of California and the other regions. They have pumped the aquifers so much that the state has literally dropped like 2 inches. I could care less about a guy being able to wash his car, but when they are draining lakes, rivers and aquifers dry trying to keep food growing to feed this nation, then its time to address what needs to be done to keep it going.
We don't think twice about running oil pipelines to provide us with cheaper oil. A water pipeline to provide Americans, especially American farmers, with the same water the rest of us take for granted doesn't seem unreasonable to me.
Well, there is the types of crops being grown. Like almonds. Water thirsty but so are others.
And they're pumping aquifers so much because the surface waters are all accounted for. Much of which goes to cities (see rocket scientist's post about no water restrictions)
And the reason for all that agriculture is..............................growth. Not just here in the West, but all over the country, and the world. If the markets weren't there, they wouldn't be using all that water to grow stuff.
But no, folks just keep makin' more and more babies. Why stop at replacement levels of 2.1? Let's have four or five. Then they can build new houses in the desert for them. And new pipelines?
And your last statement about taking water for granted? That's another part of the big picture issue. Consumers and growers have historically taken water for granted. Well, maybe not some growers in areas without irrigation. Just turn on a tap and water flows. And it hardly costs anything. Even when it's basically stolen from areas that have water to be moved to areas that don't.
Believe me, I grew up where it doesn't rain for months at times. And I've lived back East where one doesn't have to have a hose for the garden. It just rains every so often and waters it. Now I'm on a well, so I try to do things differently than most of the rest of America. Small lawn for the dogs, the rest of the yard except the garden beds is dirt. Plain old dirt with dry grass from the spring. The garden beds are heavily mulched and may get a drip system installed this year. I'm even getting used to using the dishwasher to wash a full load of dishes on the short cycle to save some water.
I've often wondered why instead of our foreign military adventures we haven't spent our money right here. I would imagine for way less money and heartbreak we could have gotten Great Lakes water over the hump and into the arid West. Also considering all the angst over sea level and coastal erosion. We have mountains of rocks that could have been moved to build sea walls such as Galveston built over 100 years ago. We have plenty of water and plenty of rocks and plenty of people that should be working on it.
That horrifically bad idea has been proposed multiple times. Thankfully the Great Lake states have told the whiny overpopulated arid West to go pound sand.
Moving Eastern water over the Rockies is a BAD idea from every perspective. 1: environmental impact from lowered stream flows in the East, including changes to estuaries and ocean fish populations.
Colorado River as case in point.
2: transfer of even more invasive species to the West.
One would have to rewrite the entire national code as per water rights. The water in Michigan and all other parts East of the Rockies belongs where it is and in the rivers where it flows. It belongs to the people where it falls and flows.
The West has been desert for milenia. The west has plenty of water to support population levels as they were in the 50s. Instead of moving water to the West, we should be moving people out of the West.
Immigration should be stopped NOW, and all illegals deported.
America achieved zero population growth fifty years ago. All population increases in America since 1970 are due to immigration, legal and not.
Without the increased population in the West due to immigration, there would be no water shortage. Some farms might have to reduce acreage, because stream flows were over allocated based on heavy rain in recent years. But no towns would be short of water.
That is where water rights law come into effect. Those properties with older water rights get the water. Newer projects with more recent water rights get to pound sand, literally.
Without the increased population in the West due to immigration, there would be no water shortage. Some farms might have to reduce acreage, because stream flows were over allocated based on heavy rain in recent years. But no towns would be short of water.
That is where water rights law come into effect. Those properties with older water rights get the water. Newer projects with more recent water rights get to pound sand, literally.
Supposed to be 110 here on Sunday and triple digits for a week at least. Only 67 at the Oregon coast at the same time. Good time to be there and not here.
Yep. If things continue to converge, Sunday will be the hottest day Medford has ever seen in June.
We've had 9 of the 10 warmest years (by average temperature) ever recorded in the last 10 years and either 5 or 6 of those were new records beating the previous, so not just hot, but still an upward trend. [bleep] politics, this is not a good thing.
We did get substantial rain out of a pretty hefty thunder storm last night, I'd guess half or 3/4ths of an inch here in under 2 hours. That was pretty welcome. Hopefully the lightning didn't leave any sleepers to pop up as things start to dry out. Been thinking 'bout some hiking in the cascades but that is a good reason to keep an eye peeled for smokes and not go anywhere that doesn't have at least 2 exits.
Only a few inches of rain from February until about September. And then October is normally a dry month anyway.
I was able to get so much done then. Me and the wife poured about 45 yards of concrete in several different sets. Stripped off 28 squares of shingles, added a master bedroom, bath and closet to the house, tied all that in. The whole house got redecked with 5/8 cdx and new Carriage House shingles me and her installed. Painted the new part and repainted the rest of the place.
A lot of mold and mildew died off. You subtract 30 inches of rain.
Didnt have to mow
My favorite arrowhead field, the farmer declared crop loss, so it got plowed twice in two seasons.
Only a few inches of rain from February until about September. And then October is normally a dry month anyway.
I was able to get so much done then. Me and the wife poured about 45 yards of concrete in several different sets. Stripped off 28 squares of shingles, added a master bedroom, bath and closet to the house, tied all that in. The whole house got redecked with 5/8 cdx and new Carriage House shingles me and her installed. Painted the new part and repainted the rest of the place.
A lot of mold and mildew died off. You subtract 30 inches of rain.
Didnt have to mow
2007-8 were 100 year droughts in the Southeast. Normal summer weather is controled by a High that sits in the northern Gulf of Mexico and pumps the humid air up in the southeast and gives us the humid summers with thunderstorms. Those two years that High moved north and parked itself in central Alabama. Weather fronts from the West would hit that High and get steered north into the Ohio Valley, dumping rain there and leaving us dry, dry dry.
The rain goes somewhere. When we have an El Niño year, North America ane Western Europe flood while Southern Africa and OZ burn up. Conversely, La Niña pattern dries us out and Southern Africa is green and OZ is all good. Obviously am oversimplification, but that's the usual result. 2008 was an La Niña year.
I had a couple raindrops on my windshield yesterday. That was about it...People seem to forget we had a ton of snow winter before last. It was nuts how much it snowed. Then zilch this past winter. I've never seen back to back heavy snow years here.
Gotta love a chart that doesn't actually define it's scale. What exactly is "Abnormally" compare to historical norms? It smacks of agenda driven chartology.
it is all defined, you just don't know the definitions, or where to find them.
In Australia, they drilled wells and pumped so much water that the wells turned saline. In Montana, they irrigated to the point that the water concentrated salt on the surface. All for short term gain. Those who don't want to believe in the current drought are burying their heads in the sand (and there is plenty of sand!). Not likely to be human caused, mind you, but the drought is real enough. Our activities just compound the effects of drought. Goats and burros will create deserts because they are just doing what comes natural too them and they have no concept of cause and effect. People do understand this concept but will ignore and deny it and go ahead and create that desert anyway; frequently, with the help of those goats! GD
Rainfall has been just about perfect here in the lower Shenandoah Valley. Good thing, as I hate having to watch my tiny wife dragging that big honkin’ hose back and forth for the garden. I suppose I could avert my eyes, but I could still hear the grunting….
The Utah water year starts on October 1, the beginning of the snow season. We are the second-driest state after Nevada, and the long-term average for Ogden is just over 18" a year. This year, according to my digital rain gauge, we have only had 9.38" in eight months. July through September are normally rain-free and this year looks like that won't change. The last "above average" year was 2019, and it was a definite aberration. One wet year does not a drought break, and this is a deep, deep drought. Most of our reservoirs are at 50% capacity - a few with a bit more but many with less.
And yet, they keep building condos on every bit of land they can re-zone. Our population doubles every decade or so. It simply cannot go on like this.
The Utah water year starts on October 1, the beginning of the snow season. We are the second-driest state after Nevada, and the long-term average for Ogden is just over 18" a year. This year, according to my digital rain gauge, we have only had 9.38" in eight months. July through September are normally rain-free and this year looks like that won't change. The last "above average" year was 2019, and it was a definite aberration. One wet year does not a drought break, and this is a deep, deep drought. Most of our reservoirs are at 50% capacity - a few with a bit more but many with less.
And yet, they keep building condos on every bit of land they can re-zone. Our population doubles every decade or so. It simply cannot go on like this.
Water year precip here so far is 6.034" Rocky.
I wish we'd had 9" +, that would be much closer to normal for us.
"While meteorologists aren’t keen to draw connections between specific rainfall events and climate change, research has shown that climate change is bringing heavier precipitation. As temperatures warm globally, more water evaporates off of the ocean and falls as rain on land."
Shouldn't they have finished that with "but it causes droughts in more arid regions."
We’ve had three of the wettest years on record here. 😜
The drought area involved is bigger than TX, far bigger, and it's real. This is a prolonged drought period with a couple of wet years tossed into the last forty years. Everywhere I go now I see springs, lecks, streams, and tanks dry that have never dried up in my lifetime. For the last five years they have been drying up earlier in the year.
This drought and increasing heat is brutal. Wildlife has all but vanished many places, yet the feds protect the feral horse...criminal!
Been above average rain where I live. Rivers have been too high and muddy to bass fish all year.
Yep. We haven’t been able to fish our pond for the last 2 1/2 years, due to the water being up in the trees and brush. You simply can’t cast. Fish and other wildlife are thriving in there, big time.
Been above average rain where I live. Rivers have been too high and muddy to bass fish all year.
Yep. We haven’t been able to fish our pond for the last 2 1/2 years, due to the water being up in the trees and brush. You simply can’t cast. Fish and other wildlife are thriving in there, big time.
Just, STOP.
We are talking about the west.
WE GET IT. Plenty of you are getting rain, where you usually get rain, in the east.
For fuggs sake.
The conversation is about the serious issues in the western states.
Like I said, the exploration and settlement in the American West over the last century and a half have coincided with one of the wettest periods in the last several thousand years. This “drought” might be nothing more than getting back to “normal” for the region and if that is so, hard to see how current population levels there will be sustainable.
we got almost 4.5 inches here in North Florida yesterday. Until recently, we were in a drought. It's cyclical.
Officially, we've had 4.344".......................since Jan 1.
If it doesn't rain for a month back east, folks are in a drought. It's based on averages.
We haven't had significant rain in about 3 months now. A couple of events at 0.01'-0.02", but nothing to change soil moisture or stream flow.
I bet that 4.5" soaked your area pretty good. But, if it doesn't rain there again for a few weeks, you'll be in a drought again.
Ours, even with a good storm, will likely continue into next year because our place is too dry to catch up anytime soon. Maybe, and a big maybe, if we have a good snow season next winter, we'll come out of this drought.
Our cycles just last a little bit longer than back east.
we have had over 12 inches this month. Of course, we don't get as much show as y'all do out west.
Been above average rain where I live. Rivers have been too high and muddy to bass fish all year.
Yep. We haven’t been able to fish our pond for the last 2 1/2 years, due to the water being up in the trees and brush. You simply can’t cast. Fish and other wildlife are thriving in there, big time.
Just, STOP.
We are talking about the west.
WE GET IT. Plenty of you are getting rain, where you usually get rain, in the east.
For fuggs sake.
The conversation is about the serious issues in the western states.
Been above average rain where I live. Rivers have been too high and muddy to bass fish all year.
Yep. We haven’t been able to fish our pond for the last 2 1/2 years, due to the water being up in the trees and brush. You simply can’t cast. Fish and other wildlife are thriving in there, big time.
Just, STOP.
We are talking about the west.
WE GET IT. Plenty of you are getting rain, where you usually get rain, in the east.
For fuggs sake.
The conversation is about the serious issues in the western states.
It’s been raining big time across the Mississippi River
We have been in this location for thirty years. My feeling is that it is drier over the last ten than it was over the twenty previous. There have been some very dry years previously but usually only a single year or even a single season. Now, there are ponds which have been full for the last thirty years but are dry now. I visited a couple of back country lakes a couple weeks ago and they are fifteen to twenty feet below previous levels. My daughter sent pictures of her swimming pool in Palm Bay, Florida which had gained about four inches of water in one day. Shockingly, that has had no effect on water levels here; only 3000 miles away. GD
People living in a historically arid area bitching about a lack of rain.Go figure.
Gotcha. Next time you guys flood out, I'm going to remind you of that statement.
Yeah, I get tired of those folks along the Mississippi, Missouri, etc rivers complaining that this is the third time in the last 40 years their towns have flooded. And they blame the US Army Corp of Engineers...........................not the folks that originally sited a town in a friggen flood plain.
Lucky here, we had some clouds yesterday, and more today that kept the heat down some. And more importantly, no dry lightning!
Been above average rain where I live. Rivers have been too high and muddy to bass fish all year.
Yep. We haven’t been able to fish our pond for the last 2 1/2 years, due to the water being up in the trees and brush. You simply can’t cast. Fish and other wildlife are thriving in there, big time.
Just, STOP.
We are talking about the west.
WE GET IT. Plenty of you are getting rain, where you usually get rain, in the east.
For fuggs sake.
The conversation is about the serious issues in the western states.
After reading your posts, I thought it was about crying. Did you have snot bubbles coming out of your nose when you typed that?
Been above average rain where I live. Rivers have been too high and muddy to bass fish all year.
Yep. We haven’t been able to fish our pond for the last 2 1/2 years, due to the water being up in the trees and brush. You simply can’t cast. Fish and other wildlife are thriving in there, big time.
Just, STOP.
We are talking about the west.
WE GET IT. Plenty of you are getting rain, where you usually get rain, in the east.
For fuggs sake.
The conversation is about the serious issues in the western states.
China said they experimenting controlling the weather in much larger areas. But they did not say where.
China has had very serious flooding over the last two years. If they had the ability to control weather I would think they would make life better for themselves.
China said they experimenting controlling the weather in much larger areas. But they did not say where.
China has had very serious flooding over the last two years. If they had the ability to control weather I would think they would make life better for themselves.
They are NOT causing our drought.
China has been VERY serious about fighting desertification in Inner Mongolia in attempt to stop and reverse the increase in deserts in that area. Many billions of trees planted, for nearly forty years now.
I can’t get a good read on the results / effects of the effort. According to the CCP, it is a smashing success, with reduction and even reversal of desert encroachment, reduction in sand and dust storms, etc, etc. All hail to their magnificent leaders, etc, etc, etc.
Outside reports are mixed, with establishment academe poo-pooing the effort as short sighted, damaging to the existing ecosystem, and certain to fail. Of course, it wasn’t their idea......
30 more years and we’ll probably have an idea of the real effect.
I'm thinking that the west has been pretty lucky the past 200 years or so.
Thank you. That seems to conflict with the lengths of the droughts, and the timing, with the University of Columbia study. More data needed, but this is neat stuff.
![[Linked Image from droughtmonitor.unl.edu]](https://droughtmonitor.unl.edu/data/jpg/20210615/20210615_usdm.jpg)
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/sntJczv.jpg)
![[Linked Image from droughtmonitor.unl.edu]](https://droughtmonitor.unl.edu/data/jpg/20210622/20210622_usdm.jpg)
![[Linked Image from izquotes.com]](https://izquotes.com/quotes-pictures/quote-you-never-let-a-serious-crisis-go-to-waste-and-what-i-mean-by-that-it-s-an-opportunity-to-do-rahm-emanuel-57656.jpg)