This is a long read, but very interesting and insightful article about how our education system is swirling around in the toilet. I've experienced talking to kids who had graduated high school with "good grades," yet were so dumb they did not know the difference between "germ" and " German Shepherd."
Taxpayers are extorted to the tune of 750 billion dollars a year for the public school system, and it’s a dismal failure in nearly every aspect. It is no longer about the students...and it hasn’t been for a long time...it’s an industry in and of itself; it’s chief mandate is to obtain as much money as possible under the false pretense of being about the students.
This is a long read, but very interesting and insightful article about how our education system is swirling around in the toilet. I've experienced talking to kids who had graduated high school with "good grades," yet were so dumb they did not know the difference between "germ" and " German Shepherd."
Depends on one's perspective, whether our schools are failing or not?
To the commies that proliferate in the vast majority of our current educational systems, they're succeeding in turning out generation after generation of good little leftists. If they've come up a bit short converting students K-12, there's always college?
Our oldest grand daughter just graduated from NYU this year, one of the most libturd infested universities in the nation. Came out unscathed, still pretty much a conservative and rational young woman. There is hope.
Taxpayers are extorted to the tune of 750 billion dollars a year for the public school system, and it’s a dismal failure in nearly every aspect. It is no longer about the students...and it hasn’t been for a long time...it’s an industry in and of itself; it’s chief mandate is to obtain as much money as possible under the false pretense of being about the students.
'xactly. Our direct homeschool costs for two kids total about $1500 per year.
Shortly after WWII the left concentrated on taking over our school system for the purpose of turning us toward communism. They started with the colleges that train the teachers. They got communist college professors in place and now it's spread to the lowest levels of education indoctrination.
Until the responsibility for learning is placed upon the shoulders of the students, nothing will ever improve.
Not possible. At one point the person who understood 2+2 was the smartest in the room. He had to teach it for others to learn.
I would agree many parents send absolute mongrels to school. Of course spending all your time working to pay taxes does leave too little time to parent.
The responsibility for teaching and the responsibility for learning aren't the same thing. I could damn well teach college algebra, but it was beyond my powers to make students study.
Most of the colleges have turned into Marxist training camps. This is the main reason people like Bernie Sanders and AOC want free tuition, so they can get as many brainwashed minds as possible.
The responsibility for teaching and the responsibility for learning aren't the same thing. I could damn well teach college algebra, but it was beyond my powers to make students study.
There’s only so much space and time sharing a developing brain can accommodate. Too much time playing video games, watching Netflix, and reading social media are the weeds that crowd out the good plants.
This is a long read, but very interesting and insightful article about how our education system is swirling around in the toilet. Another example of why America is in deep trouble.
It ain't swirling around in the toilet, it's been flushed & is now in the septic tank.
And yes, the indoctrination camps, formerly known as schools, are a major part of the problem with the country..................a very major part for several reasons.
The responsibility for teaching and the responsibility for learning aren't the same thing. I could damn well teach college algebra, but it was beyond my powers to make students study.
I get where you're coming from, but if you expect them to learn by studying, then you're expecting them to teach themselves. Now, practicing for proficiency you can't do for them, but lack of initial learning is failing by the teacher.
The responsibility for teaching and the responsibility for learning aren't the same thing. I could damn well teach college algebra, but it was beyond my powers to make students study.
I think what he's saying is "I can explain it to you but I can't understand it for you!"
If the student is paying attention to you and they're not getting it, it's your fault. That's the difference between a good teacher and not. Teaching isn't easy. You're the only one who understands it. You have to understand your subject from all directions and be able to explain it in novel ways. The only way the knowledge is transferred is if you figure out how make it obvious to them. After that point is when study comes in.
Every student is not Pythagoras. We all remember him. We all consider his theorem to be easy and simple now, but how many would have figured it out without someone explaining it in an obvious way? I had teachers who made everything obvious and I've had teachers who were useless and had to teach myself. I try to be the former.
Bullshit. Math requires a bit of wrestling with to master.
To be plain, I don't mean make it harder than necessary, be less than clear in explanations and demonstrations or whatever. However, math isn't just a collection of facts and formulas to be remembered and demonstrated examples to be regurgitated. The student must come to understand the principles involved and their application to problems which are not just like the ones shown in class. For many if not most students this understanding comes only after a good bit of work on their part.
I earned a PhD in mathematics and I can assure you as the level of study rises so does the outside of class effort expected of the student. Most people haven't encountered five problem homework sets that eat up the best part of two weeks to complete.
The responsibility for teaching and the responsibility for learning aren't the same thing. I could damn well teach college algebra, but it was beyond my powers to make students study.
The problem with math is you have to make it relevant. Too many kids cannot see the relevancy of math. I know I didn't. I took some algebra in high school and I tried again in college. I decided that the teachers could find their own GD x because I wasn't doing it any more. Now, if you wanted to teach me about keeping a check book, managing money, investing in the market, knowing what the rule of 72 means or doing your income tax. I can do that.
I got better at math when I started taking some CAD classes and some tool and die classes. That is relevant. But, no one teaches life skills and no one teaches machine shop skills in high school any more. The crap they tried shoving off in high school math was absolutely stupid except for the kids headed for college. But, to hell with the kids who just want to move on with life.
Bullshit. Math requires a bit of wrestling with to master.
To be plain, I don't mean make it harder than necessary, be less than clear in explanations and demonstrations or whatever. However, math isn't just a collection of facts and formulas to be remembered and demonstrated examples to be regurgitated. The student must come to understand the principles involved and their application to problems which are not just like the ones shown in class. For many if not most students this understanding comes only after a good bit of work on their part.
I earned a PhD in mathematics and I can assure you as the level of study rises so does the outside of class effort expected of the student. Most people haven't encountered five problem homework sets that eat up the best part of two weeks to complete.
Which is true of all graduate disciplines. Nothing unique.
Bullshit. Math requires a bit of wrestling with to master.
To be plain, I don't mean make it harder than necessary, be less than clear in explanations and demonstrations or whatever. However, math isn't just a collection of facts and formulas to be remembered and demonstrated examples to be regurgitated. The student must come to understand the principles involved and their application to problems which are not just like the ones shown in class. For many if not most students this understanding comes only after a good bit of work on their part.
I earned a PhD in mathematics and I can assure you as the level of study rises so does the outside of class effort expected of the student. Most people haven't encountered five problem homework sets that eat up the best part of two weeks to complete.
I think the issue here is you confuse teaching with lecturing. You expect to lay it out for them, then they make the effort to bridge the gap. That's not teaching. It's also nonsensical because the one holding the knowledge is the only one holding the materials with which the bridge can be made.
I always thought the problem with professors not teaching, especially in upper level courses, is they usually only understood the material well enough to use it. (Think of whatever is the math equivalent of physical chemistry.) To teach you have to understand it so well as to explain it to a six year old well enough they have at least a vague understanding. That holds with what you say. When you're at the cutting edge, you just got there yourself. And then there's the need to understand people well enough to guess where they are, too, in order to bring them to understanding. It's a special skill set few have.
This is a long read, but very interesting and insightful article about how our education system is swirling around in the toilet. I've experienced talking to kids who had graduated high school with "good grades," yet were so dumb they did not know the difference between "germ" and " German Shepherd."
Given the virus situation, our governor has declared that students no longer need to pass a proficiency test to earn a high school diploma. I guess participation is all that is needed now.
The responsibility for teaching and the responsibility for learning aren't the same thing. I could damn well teach college algebra, but it was beyond my powers to make students study.
The problem with math is you have to make it relevant. Too many kids cannot see the relevancy of math. I know I didn't. I took some algebra in high school and I tried again in college. I decided that the teachers could find their own GD x because I wasn't doing it any more. Now, if you wanted to teach me about keeping a check book, managing money, investing in the market, knowing what the rule of 72 means or doing your income tax. I can do that.
I got better at math when I started taking some CAD classes and some tool and die classes. That is relevant. But, no one teaches life skills and no one teaches machine shop skills in high school any more. The crap they tried shoving off in high school math was absolutely stupid except for the kids headed for college. But, to hell with the kids who just want to move on with life.
kwg
I took calculus in college and ended up with all theory and not a clue as to what it was used for. They didn't teach that part of it. Some years later I considered going back and studying engineering so I had to brush up on the math. A friend gave me a business calculus book to study. It was full of practical examples. The light switch clicked on. All they'd have to do is throw in some useful examples and many students would get it a lot faster and easier. Learning limits and integrals is a waste of time if you don't know what to do with them. Make it meaningful to the students.
My 3d semester of calc was taught by an educated idiot. In any class of 100 there's always 1 or 2 who can get it no matter how hard it is. He taught to them and let the others be damned. They were slackers. He made it so hard that the engineering students were having to take his class 2 or 3 times to get through it. I dropped out at midterm with a score of 45 and I was in the top 1/3 of the class.
For many college is a giant waste of time and money.
Once upon a time the less gifted students failed out of grade school and went to work at jobs that didn't require "book learning".
A lot of those jobs/industries are gone. Along with the rise of LBJ's great society we have a growing segment of leaches that expect to be taken care of whether they work/contribute or not.
It looks like some are saying FU to the scam university's and going the trade school route to a decent living.
It goes deeper than school, and back more than two generations, cause it`s the Parents that are failing, because our entire social system has failed. My wife works at a school, has for 5 yrs. now as a part-time, 6.5 hours a day, EA. The stories she brings home of the behavior of most parents, would have you believing it`s 1821, not 2021. Horrid, and not getting any better. Best part, NO ONE is held accountable, certantly not the parents. If you want to destroy America, 1st.grade school is the place to start. If you have kids in school, get involved and push back. That does work.
Taxpayers are extorted to the tune of 750 billion dollars a year for the public school system, and it’s a dismal failure in nearly every aspect. It is no longer about the students...and it hasn’t been for a long time...it’s an industry in and of itself; it’s chief mandate is to obtain as much money as possible under the false pretense of being about the students.
Teachers and “professors” and school administrators in the public school system think the parents ought to pay out the ass in property taxes and spend 750 billion dollars a year on it, and then take the blame for its dismal failure.
I think the issue here is you confuse teaching with lecturing. You expect to lay it out for them, then they make the effort to bridge the gap. That's not teaching. It's also nonsensical because the one holding the knowledge is the only one holding the materials with which the bridge can be made.
I provide the tools, quality tools. I lay out the materials, plenty of them. It's up to the student to do the assembly.
My kids are out of school, and now in particular I'm seeing alot of this woke stuff creep into our school that wasn't there just a few years ago. I'm thankful I don't have to be involved because there seems to be no shortage of social justice warriors moving into our little town , but I was at school board meetings and parent teacher conferences. I tried to find time for school events and recognition ceremonies when I wasn't traveling. I let my kids know what I expected and I'd have their back if they found themselves having to defend themselves over it. I'm happy to say there is a strong base of parents fighting back in our community over it. A principle was "re-assigned" after his twitter feeds came to light.
I had to meet with a school principle one time about a racial incident at school where a young urban lad and my son got in a fight and he claimed my son called him the "n-word". During her attempt to scold me in front of my son for how I raised him to be a bigot, he asked her what the n-word was. Conversation over, the young urban lad was a liar and I thanked her for taking sides without hearing the truth. I asked her if she was going to be so judgemental to the urban lad's parents for raising a liar as she was to the white racist parent. She never had much to say to me after that, but my son never dealt with that kid again.
I am a firm believer in like minded parents showing up and letting the school know what is important to them. You have to do that, especially now.
My wife is a special needs teacher. She has a job solely because parents of children who cannot function at a high school level, in many cases cannot communicate at all, demand that their children be integrated into a regular school She babysits kids all day who would be better off at a specialized school. And those school resources could be going to help the majority of students instead of the very few. I guess that is the downside of having parent heavily involved in school decisions.
I think the issue here is you confuse teaching with lecturing. You expect to lay it out for them, then they make the effort to bridge the gap. That's not teaching. It's also nonsensical because the one holding the knowledge is the only one holding the materials with which the bridge can be made.
I provide the tools, quality tools. I lay out the materials, plenty of them. It's up to the student to do the assembly.
Bullshit. Math requires a bit of wrestling with to master.
To be plain, I don't mean make it harder than necessary, be less than clear in explanations and demonstrations or whatever. However, math isn't just a collection of facts and formulas to be remembered and demonstrated examples to be regurgitated. The student must come to understand the principles involved and their application to problems which are not just like the ones shown in class. For many if not most students this understanding comes only after a good bit of work on their part.
I earned a PhD in mathematics and I can assure you as the level of study rises so does the outside of class effort expected of the student. Most people haven't encountered five problem homework sets that eat up the best part of two weeks to complete.
I think the issue here is you confuse teaching with lecturing. You expect to lay it out for them, then they make the effort to bridge the gap. That's not teaching. It's also nonsensical because the one holding the knowledge is the only one holding the materials with which the bridge can be made.
I always thought the problem with professors not teaching, especially in upper level courses, is they usually only understood the material well enough to use it. (Think of whatever is the math equivalent of physical chemistry.) To teach you have to understand it so well as to explain it to a six year old well enough they have at least a vague understanding. That holds with what you say. When you're at the cutting edge, you just got there yourself. And then there's the need to understand people well enough to guess where they are, too, in order to bring them to understanding. It's a special skill set few have.
Not to hijack this little tete-a-tete, but to analogize this to sports: I found in coaching youth baseball that I could explain and show things to the players that would have greatly improved their game. But, I never was able to coach the desire to excel into them. They either had it or they didn't. Talent made a difference, but talent without desire only took them so far. I suspect it is similar in the classroom and that many if not most kids simply don't have the desire to learn; it isn't part of their upbringing at home, and they attach no importance to it. Carry on.
Bullshit. Math requires a bit of wrestling with to master.
To be plain, I don't mean make it harder than necessary, be less than clear in explanations and demonstrations or whatever. However, math isn't just a collection of facts and formulas to be remembered and demonstrated examples to be regurgitated. The student must come to understand the principles involved and their application to problems which are not just like the ones shown in class. For many if not most students this understanding comes only after a good bit of work on their part.
I earned a PhD in mathematics and I can assure you as the level of study rises so does the outside of class effort expected of the student. Most people haven't encountered five problem homework sets that eat up the best part of two weeks to complete.
I think the issue here is you confuse teaching with lecturing. You expect to lay it out for them, then they make the effort to bridge the gap. That's not teaching. It's also nonsensical because the one holding the knowledge is the only one holding the materials with which the bridge can be made.
I always thought the problem with professors not teaching, especially in upper level courses, is they usually only understood the material well enough to use it. (Think of whatever is the math equivalent of physical chemistry.) To teach you have to understand it so well as to explain it to a six year old well enough they have at least a vague understanding. That holds with what you say. When you're at the cutting edge, you just got there yourself. And then there's the need to understand people well enough to guess where they are, too, in order to bring them to understanding. It's a special skill set few have.
Not to hijack this little tete-a-tete, but to analogize this to sports: I found in coaching youth baseball that I could explain and show things to the players that would have greatly improved their game. But, I never was able to coach the desire to excel into them. They either had it or they didn't. Talent made a difference, but talent without desire only took them so far. I suspect it is similar in the classroom and that many if not most kids simply don't have the desire to learn; it isn't part of their upbringing at home, and they attach no importance to it. Carry on.
I stink at coaching compared to the better ones my kids have had. Those fellas have the knack for inspiration.
You touched on a big problem with government school. They browbeat the try out of them because precociousness in children makes them work too hard. How to handle them is not taught in college. You must have and develop teaching skills to handle them.
I think modern entertainment like video games are part of it. Kids grow up operating within a strict framework. So they expect to be limited with no reward for trying anything novel. I purposely set my kids up to get bored. Boredom and time with out structure is essential in their development. Government school takes too much time and leaves too little time for personal development. This is a huge difference in our generation and later generations.
We homeschooled and not having the distraction of other "students" who disrupted the learning process made lessons go much more quickly. As you correctly observe, this left time for them to explore their own interests. For many of our homeschooling years, the internet was not part of our lives; when it was, the connection was so slow that gaming was not feasible. All good as far as I'm concerned. The public school system has become corrupt beyond redemption. Sports and the extra cost of private/homeschool options are the only things keeping it viable.
Rare is the parent who can recognize and/or accept that his/her child is not putting in the necessary effort to learn. It is so much easier to blame the school/teachers.
Rare is the parent who can recognize and/or accept that his/her child is not putting in the necessary effort to learn. It is so much easier to blame the school/teachers.
When we had a child in government school we had to teach her in the evenings because it was not happening at school. The school was more focused on getting and spending. The last year they didn't give textbooks. They expected them to use laptops and smartphones. To get time with a textbook a kid had to stay after school.
My high school calculus teacher blamed teachers who got degrees but never learned to teach. She used textbooks and a chalkboard. None of this expecting gadgets and media to do the job. She was usually teacher of the year.
There are plenty of kids who don't get the necessary parenting. Often it's because parents have to work to much to pay for a life plus high taxes. Some are indeed just animals, but that does not answer as to why the schools are failing overall for all students. It's mostly a government school system not focused on teaching
The public school system has become corrupt beyond redemption.
Yep. It’s a monopoly that has no incentive to be effective, efficient, accountable, or to improve because it’s all funded by taxes that parents and others pay out the ass.
Typical...the government pretty much ruins everything it touches.
I’ve currently got one in middle school and one in high school. Both get good grades and are pretty much enjoying the experience. That said, their two respective schools are a real mess. Particularly the high school. Both are very disorganized, and we see a lot of complacency with the teachers. There seems to be a significant lack of professionalism and a lack of accountability among the teachers. Elementary school was just the opposite. Some of the high school teachers just don’t give a crap.
Rare is the parent who can recognize and/or accept that his/her child is not putting in the necessary effort to learn. It is so much easier to blame the school/teachers.
A lad I knew in Florida [Senior HS] came home with paper in hand saying that he was reading on a 3rd grade level , his Mom said ''don't pay any attention to them - people will always try and put you down'' then she turned back to her google search Cocktail Recipes . <<---TRUTH LOL ,, many Parents don't give a ratzass how their kids do in school .
The #1 obstacle for public schools is the requirement that they "attempt" to educate every student. That then requires schools to mix those that are brighter with those that aren't, those that want to learn with those that don't. Quickly, it becomes a game of teaching to the lowest common denominator. When race comes into play, and you look at percentages of those who don't want to learn and those who disrupt class, and those that aren't capable of high performance and it becomes a racial bias thing.
The OP's link is a good read on just this.
I am yet to figure out how mathematics can be racist? Maybe it is. If it is, it seems biased toward Asian students around here. This has also lead to a GPA scale that is greater than a 4.0 scale. What was once considered normal college prep work is considered "advanced placement. Since the watered down lowest common denominator work has gread inflation, we needed to develop a new scale.
They don't work with composition, so the kids can't write a coherent paragraph. They cannot use transitions words and phrases, and have a painfully limited vocabulary. When in doubt, they use "phouc, phoucing, phoucer, or simply "mother phoucing phoucer" when at a loss for something else. The magical world of Twitter - say it in less than 280 characters.
All they'd have to do is throw in some useful examples and many students would get it a lot faster
Yes! Had high school acquaintances that near failed everything. If they wanted to know how much force it took to push an outside mirror through a quarter mile, however, they'd figure it out.
Similarly I had a college stat prof that would dictate a table of numbers for analyses and then ask several students what their major might be. To the ag student they were calf weights. To a wildlife major they were fish lengths. Foresters it was timber yield etc. Only prof that got a standing ovation from the class at the end of his final lecture.
Sadly, the college promoted him into administration. Should have paid him bigger bucks and left him in teaching.
I certainly agree about presenting useful examples in math class when appropriate and if they can be done properly without diverting too much time/effort from the main thread of the course. Sometimes we may be limited to foreshadowing since many of the prime uses of certain parts of mathematics need the math reasonably well developed before meaningful examples can be discussed in any depth.
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. <<---TRUTH LOL ,, many Parents don't give a ratzass how their kids do in school .