With China outlawing the cryptocurrency. What does this mean for the rest of the world?

we don't answer to China last I checked. they want to drive the price down, gobble it up while the rest of the world pays to mine it. it's all about controling the money of the world. they'll reverse it and show their hand when the timing is right. unless they have changed strategies that have worked for them so far. buy it now and save it for 10 years. DON'T SELL

Eventually all currency will be crypto I imagine. But in the meantime some selling will make big money and some buying will lose big money. I know one person who thinks it’s the greatest thing and has invested heavily in it. He’s a socialist, high techie antifa Trump hater type so I hope he loses his ass.

China bans Bitcoin every few months. Tells ya something about how well the ban is working.

I understand they will begin arresting those trading cryptocurrency! I remember a few here pimped it hard, just wondered their take on the subject! I have no idea of it's future. I agree money is going plastic, but that is different! My knowledge of cryptocurrency is extremely limited, as it holds no intrest to me! Just read a headline and wondered what other's take on it was!

My take away is that it is not so immune to govt. interference as was previously thought. Any government. They all want control.

Bitcoin is like Tesla, it’s a cult. If they banned it in half the countries around the world, people would still buy it.

Not quite. Tesla at least makes a million cars a year or so. Bitcoin is a zero sum game.

I gave you my take on it, I own a fair amount of one of the most popular right now. My guess is eventually they will all stabilize and we'll see a set standard when they all merge into one. This is the ground floor for a few. If mine continues at the rate it's going I'm looking at early retirement. Those who scoff at it probably thought the automobile idea wouldn't catch on either lol.

This will be an interesting thing to watch play out. No way .gov will willingly cede the power crypto currency threatens to take away from them.

Per Tesla's web page they made 509,737 autos in 2020 and that was their highest production year up to then.

How can one ban something he can't put his hands on? One could still use such in several other countries.

For what it's worth shib coin is up 200% in the last month.
A one thousand dollar investment now in it will pay off huge in 10 years.

Anyone else watching ShibUSD? It just made a nice run tonight. Still time to buy in. I'm at 237% profit in two months and it's just getting warmed up. I've bought on a couple of platforms. Easy to download a crypto buying or stock trading app and buy some.

How does one cash out of these types of risky investments and who pays you? I work with a guy who basically over night lost? control, access or value of his rather large investment. To the point where he was considering flying out west to their main office.

I'm not touching cryptocurrencies.

I'd be curios to know more of your friends story, sounds like he might have fallen victim to a Ponzi scheme, I know people who have been duped the same way.

As for who pays you it's those who want the crypto for themselves, much like a stock, who pays you when you sells stocks? the ones buying it. Crypto is a bit different because many are accepted as currency and can be used to buy goods. the more places accept crypto currency X the higher it's value goes up. there are different models on how it's limited in order to achieve a realized value. like with Shiba Inu they made trillions of them, but many are "burned" for different reasons, such as at the time of a transaction. meaning it's self limiting. more transactions means fewer coins in "circulation" crypto can be held in a portfolio, through an intermediary or crypto wallet. if you have crypto in a wallet you can Stake it, basically a digital form of a CD meaning it takes it out of circulation and you can get interest on it by doing so. this is the simple explanation. those who bought when it was in it's infancy can buy more coins for fractions of a cent and watch the price rise, much like buying amazon stock in the 90's for a buck. with advancements in trading apps anyone with a smartphone can buy and sell stocks and cryptos at any level (most have a minimum buy in of 100 bucks) then you can trade and build a portfolio.

Admittedly, I know nothing about Crypto... but IF I was a Colombian drug Lord I would image it would be awesome.

I send a large drug shipment to America... it is received by Hunter... and I get Bitcoins by email... with no one able to track what just happened.

Is that how it works? Secret dark money and no tax (or whatever) fingerprints?

I made 987% selling 9mm on Gunbroker

that's how it was intended in a way, to be above govt regulation and as a way to combat inflation and exchange rates. the "problem" is until it stabilizes and finds it's equilibrium it can fluctuate as people buy and sell, BUT they all keep appreciating, so as a 5,10,20 year hold it could and will pay off huge unless the government does some radical legislation against it or tax it at 90%. that scenario is unlikely because it is so easy for the average joe to set up an account and buy, politicians are contending with millions of users, and not just a few fringe folks living on the dark web. Granted no one can predict the future, but history and trends show it's the wave of the future potentially. like anything don't bet more than you can afford to lose.

Not quite. Crypto has the same problem as gold. When currency was tied to gold, the amount of money was close to fixed. The only increase in the money supply was the increase in the gold supply. The economy coiuld not increase the amount of goods and services unless the price of goods decreased -- same money, more goods would equal inflation.

You can trace through history the economic impact of large gold finds resulting in increased circulation of money. When the Romans started mining the deposits in Spain, when Spain started bringing home gold from the New World, the '49 California gold rush. Each influx of gold resulted in an economic boom. There was more money to spend, so the economy responded by making more goods and services -- the economy grew due to the increase in money supply.

That should sound familiar. Historically, economists have taught that inflation occurs when the money supply increases and more money chases the same amount of goods and services. While that statement is correct, it hasn't held true over the last thirty years, not at a national level. Enter "new monetary theory". It essentially states that a nation can increase the money supply (print money) without creating inflation as long as the increase in money is smaller than the increase in the capacity to DELIVER goods and services. With globalization, a nation's capacity to produce goods and services is not limited to what it can produce domestically, it can import what it needs to soak up that money.

Just like when gold entered the economy and boosted buying, printing money, it turns out, can be done without the inflation penalty. Well, until you run into limits of importing through tartiffs or government regulations limiting shipping capacity.

Crypto has the same limit as gold: you can't make more to increase economic activity. In that respect, it's a huge step backwards.

To me, money oils the machine.

It's people [producing goods that matters.

Correct. They also delivered 241,000 vehicles in Q3, 2021, and the Berlin, Germany and Austin, TX factories are due to come on line in Q4 2021. I submit that the statement "a million cars per year" accurately describes the current production rate. 2022 should be over 1.5 million cars, even with the supply chain issues.

That's an interesting perspective, it will be interesting to see how the basis/trend for an old monetary system translates to the digital age. Gold is a precious metal that as you say can influence if large pockets are discovered and dumped into the economy, especially one that has gold as the standard. paper money replaced gold and was regulated to a degree but as we've seen can be printed at will by politicians thus inflation. crypto can't be replicated simply by cutting and pasting code or adding digits to a bank statement. the very nature of how it is mined is how it combats the scenario you pointed out with the different models of how it's made. as it grows in popularity so does it's value. people have bought and sold currency at exchange rates to make money forever, this is just digital and faster. it's like stocks only can be used for payment transactions in a way.

Elon just posted, he isn't holding Shib. Watch for price dump.

Well, his holdings are up by a billion $. I suppose I'd take some profit, too......

Shiba is a meme coin parody of another meme coin. Its the perfect investment in today's clown world.

lol, here I was thinking it was the hipster term for bitcoin.... I should not try to speak hipster.

Dutch, that concept is very interesting and something I never understood before. If I understand correctly the concept of supply and demand affects the value money as well as the value of goods and services. It also explains why some think globalization is a good thing. It helps balance the money supply with the goods and services available.

Sounds great, except money is created through debt. In order to keep kicking that can down the road, they're floating the idea of a trillion dollar coin.

OK, let's say crypto is good money like gold is good money. Issuers of fiat money can destroy the value and always eventually have by creating too much of it since there is an unlimited supply. Gold cannot be created and has been accepted the world over as money for thousands of years and still is. It has several traits that make it useful for money such as non corroding, easily portable, limited but not rare, and recognized and valued the world over. I don't quite understand crypto but supposedly its supply is limited so we can I guess call it digital gold. The governments of the world have proven they can force gold out of commerce like our USA did in 1933. Governments have to use force to require good money not to compete with their fiat money. Which brings me to the question of what is there to stop a government from outlawing the use of crypto and shutting down internet trading of it?

Your conflating two issues: government debt, and government’s ability to create money. The first, the government borrowing money, by itself, does not increase the money supply: the government spends money, but someone else takes money out of circulation to give to the government. So debt, alone, does not increase the money supply.

Money can be created in two ways: one, by simply printing it, or in the digital age, by simply wiring it to another account, out of thin air.

Or, as the government has been doing, by lending money. Give someone a nice fat wire into their account, and call it a loan. Another form of this is “bond purchases”, where the government uses new money to buy private bonds. Incidentally, any bank can do this, not just the Fed. It is good to be a banker..... you can create money out of thin air.

Under “new monetary theory” government debt isn’t as big a deal, because the government can print money without penalty. Needless to say, it’s quite popular with politicians, for the same reasons Keynes was.

We (economists) know that the theory of inflation we were all taught is not correct, and “new monetary theory” is one of the new candidate theories. No one k owns what the limits of this theory are, or if it is actually correct, or just matches the data for the last 30 coincidentally.

Ok, now you have secular inflation and low interest rates. You're also adding a hundred billion dollars a month to the money supply, with policy makers voting on a multi trillion dollar spending bill. Against bitcoin, you're already experiencing hyperinflation.

Why are precious metals not hyperinflating?

The only way to shut down internet trading of it is to shut down the internet. They could make it difficult and inconvenient, which would almost certainly have a negative effect on price, but you can't stop it. China has been trying for a long time, and still hasn't succeeded.

I thought China's government had pretty strict control over internet access in that country and successfully blocked private citizens from a good many things. True or not?

Just curious if you all have been watching the crypto markets. Pretty amazing what's going on

There is a lot of bad info in this thread. But that is nothing new here on the Fire!

China, the only thing we actually know for certain is that they don't have enough energy for mining operations. The rest is speculation.

Bitcoin and Altcoins are not one and the same. Nor will they all meld into one.

There is only 14 million Bitcoins, possibly fewer but rough count 14M. There will never be more, but there will be fewer in time. No government controls it. For those living in the past the adoption of Bitcoin is here and not going anywhere. You can invest in BTC in Hedgefunds, ETF's, and other avenues. Pension funds are buying up BTC. Countries are looking at it as their currency. El Salvador already has adopted it. There has never been an investment in history with the returns it has produced. BTC will continue the drive up. Not at the pace of ALTs more then likely but still with great returns.

As for Shiba it is a pure speculation that has grabbed the attention of some whales and institutional investors. One could make some unreal returns with this. I strongly advise playing it safe and setting up limits at target points and taking your money off the table. I bought in @ $0.00000274 a share. I sold Yesterday to recoup my investment and still have 11 Million share. I can't lose, even if it disappears I am positive $$$.

As for Altcoins they are not BTC! They are for the most part and ease of discussion Blockchains. If you stick to the Blockchains that actually have sound fundamentals you should be ok, as in sticking to sound stocks. Yes there is always still a risk. No risk, no reward. ETH, SOL, LINK, and MATIC all AS OF NOW have sound fundamentals and in my opinion are great investments.Do your due diligence and only invest what you can afford to lose. The naysayers have already been proven WRONG!

This^^^^

Excellent. What did it cost you in Eth to sell that Shib? Was going to take some more profits off it today and the fee's are getting pretty steep! The 4 alts you listed happen to make up a good part of my crypto holdings, hopefully take some profit to reinvest if/when things drop significantly.

It didn't cost me anything, I converted SHIB to SOL on coinbase.

XXClaro SHIB just dropped from a high of $0.0000880 down to $0.00006???. But looks to be heading North again.

Bitcoin can still be mined and is only at about 3/4 of it mined that can be. every coin mined makes the next one harder to mine so although greatly limited and requiring lots of energy to do so it hasn't reached it's 21 million cap yet since there's only about 14 million out there now.

Shib is back up to .00007589 as of this moment, no way I'm selling right now even to take my initial investment out, it's a long term hold for me. I've bought in 9 times and have an average of .00001222, but I have over 100 mil of them. my P&L for the day is double my initial investment, for me to pull any out now isn't an option. there has been a shift in the last week and more in the last 24 hours that has surged it. it's up 60% for the day and growing to a high of .00008768. my strategy is obviously different than yours regarding the cryptos and it looks like we're both making money. that's a good thing!

You have a lot to learn. The cap is 21 million. However some has already been lost both intentionally and unintentionally. This will continue to happen as time goes on. As I said the rough estimate is 14 million. I am not taking jabs at you, but you should really read up on it if you are or plan to invest in. Everyone agrees there will never be 21 Million, the actual number is going to change over time.

As for Shib it is a dangerous game play as you see fit. Your average buy in isn't low! You have 4 zeros and 1....., My average was .00000247 still not low but a fifth zero Ill take at buy in.

Looks like there is some resistance @ $.000088.. ish we’ll see if it breaks through tonight or tomorrow. Let’s hope it drops another zero!

Lol I have a lot to learn? Ok. Spin it how you want. I was trying to be polite when I pointed out where you were wrong but whatever. Bitcoin had it's day and I admit I missed the boat as did a lot of folks, but it paved the way for the future.

Paper hands guru with a $20 buy in wants to lecture on percentages and feel superior that's fine. I think even you can see that holding 102 million is more than 11. After the correction last night we all saw coming, it stabilized (so far) above your advertised sell. Looks like you're out unless you pony up a lot more and increase your average or it comes down, but the trend says it looked won't. Lots of strategies out there and like I said I'm in it for the long haul which is why I keep buying. Yesterday with all the transactions burned a lot of coins. That's the angle I'm playing, doge has no cap and in my opinion a huge risk. Sure it bumped over night but it will settle back down in the mid 20s again most likely. I'm not claiming to know everything about crypto but I'm making great gains consistently across several platforms.
Good luck to you sir

I regret not buying shib a few months ago, coulda shoulda woulda. Oh well my bets in the bankers coin XRP, once the lawsuit with the SEC is resolved it's going to payout a nice profit i believe.

Nothing superior, I see you have insecurities. I didn't spin a single thing. Ask Saylor how many Bitcoin there is and if that number will decrease. You clearly don't follow crypto because if you had you would know that.

as for your Shiba comment, I am sitting on 11 million with zero skin in the game, you can not say the same! Shiba has terrible white paper and tokenomics. Everyone with half a brain know that the only way it will fly is manipulation. Can we make some money on it, of course hence why I am sitting on it. The reality is the chances of it dropping 4 zeros is next to ZERO, if luck goes our way it may shed one or two more. Like I said it is a dangerous game.

Nice, unfortunately I bought before it was on Coinbase so its on a DEX, even sending it to another wallet is going to cost more than I want to pay. I'll ride it out a little longer, beleive it'll be listed on RobinHood soon and that might send it for another ride.

Yes not worth it for you to move it around. It isn't costing you anything sitting where it is. Hopefully it will make a good run and then it will be well worth the price to move it.

That is the talk, they are for sure developing a wallet. Robinhood could give it some fuel. I believe the fuel it needs is a Reddit pump. That I believe could get it to $0.0? which is a great ride to be on if it does.

The way you guys are talking makes me realize crypto is basically the Beanie Baby craze for geeks....

There is still opportunity to buy in. If you have the right mentality and aren't trying to "break the Bank". Look for dips to .00005 ish or lower of course. That is still a fair buy in price should it drop a couple zeros.

XRP is tainted but could make a comeback. In my opinion there are to many untainted crypto's out there with great white papers and tonkenomics to invest in.

Far from it. But like anything else there are good legitimate crypto's and there are bad ones. It's our responsibility to do our own research just as the stock market. How many got hooked by Enron?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZgvkZFDHcQ&list=RDCMUClgJyzwGs-GyaNxUHcLZrkg&start_radio=1

Colorado you might want to give this a view as I said Bitcoin will never reach 21 Million watch at about the 23:05 mark.

mo
get under your skin did I? had to look around until you found something that supported your most recent claim. LOL and you called me insecure! first it was "it's already been done but so many are burned in wallets that can no longer be accessed so there's effectively only 14 mil" and now you're saying it can never reach there? not wasting anymore time on you or the video you managed to find. couldn't care less anyway, bitcoin is old news and it's only relevance is to show the potential of cryptos when they have the right model. I stand behind what I said and I'm right. I only answered this latest dribble from your handle because you addressed me directly. Your advice is as bad as your math, paper hands.

Better comparison would be the dot.com bubble of the late 90's. A whole bunch of start-ups attracted huge investments, made and broke millionaires, then most crashed and burned. Crypto is alot like that now, loads of new projects starting up and vying for attention and investment. Most won't make it. A few will, and might change the world along the way. Make money on the coins of the moment, try to find and hold on to the coins of the future. Most dot.coms startups vanished, those that survived make early investors ridiculous amounts of money.

A better comparison for sure.

Oh someone doesn’t like being wrong! Please feel free to keep on enlightening us with your lack of knowledge! It is entertaining.