https://www.foxnews.com/us/atlanta-airport-gunfire-manhunt-underway-convicted-felon-kenny-wells

As in the Rittenhouse case, Felon with a firearm, LOCK them Up, or take their hands (their choice).

It’s amazing to me that so many “pro” gun folks are anti gun when it comes to felons.

The world is full of weapons and people still think gun control for felons works.

A felon in possession of a firearm needs killing. I feel anyone convicted of three felonies needs killing. Fact is killing the bad guys will pretty much fix the majority of problems we have in the country. The crooked politicians and or lawyer's will be out of a job.

It is not necessarily "Pro" or "Anti" gun people that concern me so much as the TOTAL INABILITY of so many people to be able to independently THINK anymore... and to NOT take the words spoken by MSM as an "Instruction Manual" on how they MUST LIVE THEIR LIVES WITHOUT QUESTIONING ANYTHING.

This one hit that point home (more so than any other memes here recently).

Owning a gun is a right, Felons lose their rights, They have conditions for parole, owning a gun is a violation of that parole. Break the parole (do the crime) do the time.

Show people that guns are not the answer to a minor dispute,

Enforce the laws that are on the books.

All of the founding fathers were felons.....just putting that out there.
And if someone can "take away" a right, it's not a right it's a privilege.

A bit of silliness, a bit of truth.
Guns make for a polite society
Unfortunately this won’t work well in cities were gangs are concerned , they don’t seem to have a grain of politeness between thier ears .
Kenneth

Very true. I never understood the US obsession with barring felons from owning firearms. The way I see it either you learnt your lesson after you do the time and you enjoy full rights again, or you didnt learn your lesson and if you want to do bad things you will find a way to get an illegal gun anyway...

These bans, like most gun bans only disadvantage those who werent intending to do anything wrong.

Plus 1

What it really comes down to is that we have one particular race of people that commit most of the really violent crimes and as a whole cannot be trusted with firearms. Our Founders understood this but in modern times unless convicted of a felony they have as much right to a weapon as anyone.

They were (knowingly) guilty of treason against the crown but that's an apples to oranges comparison because when the rebellion became a successful revolution, they no longer answered to the British government, they *became* the government.

What worries me is the fact that there are so many things that used to be misdemeanor offenses are now felonies.
They’re turning us all into unconvicted felons on a daily basis. I think this is planned. That way we can be disarmed one at a time.
7mm

Barring felons from possessing firearms allows them, if caught, to be locked up before they commit more crimes. Possession of a weapon by a felon is prima facia evidence that they’re going to commit more crimes and are willing to kill while doing so.

200 years ago, for the most part, Felons owning/possessing firearms wasn't much of a problem.

The list of 'Felonies' was much shorter, AND

Once convicted of a Felony your life was much shorter also........ so problem solved, as it were.

RE: Treason!!! Patriotic or Treasonous Acts are largely dependent on Dates!!!

So are you suggesting felons should be legally allowed to possess a gun since gun control for them doesn't work? Why stop there. Maybe we make theft and shop lifting legal since the laws against it didn't work. How about rape? Murder? With your logic why have any laws at all?

If a person is deemed safe enough to walk among us in society they should be afforded the same rights as everybody else.

I oppose the restriction of gun ownership for any free American.

Apples to apples. Goverment is goverment.

Would you have felt the same way if Rittenhouse were convicted on all counts?

Similar to domestic violence. A misdemeanor banning those convicted of firearm ownership. At the time it was made into law it was supposed to prevent wife beaters from buying a gun to kill their wife. 25 or so years later and anything and everything is domestic violence. Two adult roommates, two adult relatives, a man damaging property a wife or GF property or making any contact whatsoever with during an argument. All of it is domestic violence and a lifelong firearm ban.

Which isn’t to justify any of the above behavior but it’s morphed into something that it wasn’t sold as at the time and the way that the charge is through around today definitely should not be a lifelong ban. I have no doubt that anti gun prosecutors use it as a tool.

Eh...only if you expected the new government to try and convict *itself* of crimes against the former government. Technically they were never convicted at trial just declared outlaws by the crown.

The 1968 Gun Control Act made owning a firearm by a convicted felon illegal irrespective of the crime type. So most "pro-gun folks" believe following the law is a good idea especially when it comes to who can legally purchase a firearm. Convicted felons have already proven they are not much for following laws.

Exactly...

I got into a heated argument about blind people not being able to have guns... or partially blind people... or people that wear glasses... or people that someday might need to wear glasses... or people with a hearing loss not having 100% full senses to know what is going on around them... or people with a sprained ankle not being sufficiently able to retreat from an attack...

Exactly where would most of you draw the line?

The hitch in that logic is that the “deemers” continually and consistently deem all kinds of worthless schittbirds to be safe enough to walk around with the rest of us, knowing it’s unlikely they’ll ever run into them themselves. It’s another symptom of the Them and Us philosophy.

Non-violent felons? No problem.

You've identified why this debate usually implodes so quickly. Most who would say "no" to your question would say "yes" (and make memes) if you asked it about bicep guy.

I somewhat agree with you. I have a friend that got tangled up with the IRS and foolishly took a plea deal. I don't believe he defrauded the government at all but he wanted out of the trouble. Now he is a federal felon and cannot possess a firearm. As to "safe enough to walk among us", there are way too many (Rosenbaum for instance) that are turned loose that will never be "safe enough".

You make a good point. I might have a bit hasty with my reply. It is not a black & white issue. When the government moves the lines as to what constitutes a felony, it blurs the line.

That’s an indictment of a judicial system.

It has nothing to do with the 2nd Amendment.

It is a black and white issue.

And how long before this goverment declares people speaking up against it are commiting treason? ( Jan. 6th.)

I mostly disagree with your position on felons in possession. I think that felons who have been convicted of a definded range of violent crimes and are subsequently convicted of the possession of a firearm should face mandatory termination, full stop, no exceptions. Felons who have been convicted of a definded range of non-violent crimes and are subsequently convicted of possessing a firearm should face a mandatory sentence of 10 year in prison without any opportunity for parole. I believe that so called "Straw Buyers", people who knowingly purchase firearms legally, but acting as an agent for a prohibited person, should also face mandatory 10 year prison sentence if convicted.

Felons, by their very nature, are rule breakers, not typical law abiding citizens. I can't see how banning convicted felons from possesing firearms is a disadvantage to anyone but them. Maybe felons have paid their debt to society, but that doesn't mean that every law abiding citizen is required to embrace them and give them a clean slate, not everyone deserves a second, third, forth, fifth, sixth, etc. chance when their record reflects who and what they are.

The recidivism rate for violent felons who are terminated is 0, while the rate for those who are released into society is over 60% according to prisonlegalnews.org.

Rosenbaum being free has nothing to do with the 2nd Amendment.

^^^failure to think^^^

I see what you did there

I AGREE > it should be a public hanging for all killers and rape cases , it helps teach the young and others too not break the law of the land. , felony needs to be redefined . also in some cases the judge should give the defendent 2 options =# 1 prison or # 2 Army or Marines

In several states, a PFA restraint is enough to deprive you of your 2A Rights.
My ex did it purely out of spite.
7mm

I am a firm believer in this concept.

Then men that penned the Constitution didn’t let kid fugkers into society either.

It’s pretty black and white.

any ''domestic violence'' bust and your guns are gone. a man argues with his wife and he grabs her by the arm, she files a complaint, you got a feminist DA, and his gun rights are gone for good. know who was 'co president'' when this law was passed. Hillary.

just part of the liberal gun grab.

According to FBI stats on solved homicides, most homicides are intra-racial, about 90% of black homicide victims are killed by other black folks and about 90% of white homicide victims are killed by other white folks. If "insert racial/ethnic group name" lives mattered, the greatest decrease in "insert racial/ethnic group name" homicides would be achieved if we/they would stop killing people in our own racial/ethnic group.

I’m pretty sure the Framers believed that schittbirds would be hanged or locked up long and hard. For now, the rights protected by the 2nd aren’t absolute, subject to reasonable restrictions. Forbidding violent schittbirds from having guns is reasonable; just ask someone who’s wife or child been raped and murdered by one. Obviously it often doesn’t stop them from being armed, but it does allow them to be put away for a time where they can only rape and murder other schittbirds.

Are you a Judge ? If not it would be a good line of work for you.

In Idaho you can.

What I was going to say.

They’re either free or they’re not. If they’re unsafe to society, lock them up.

My wife went to the ATM to pull $1k in cash two night ago... there were cars lurking around the parking lot... she came home without getting out of her car. Her .380 never came out of her purse.

I went back, pulled out my wallet and one of the Glocks I carry (I typically carry 2 Glocks and a .380)... set the wallet and Glock in plain site on the top shelf of the ATM... ran the transaction, looked over my shoulder once... and then came home.

Who knows and who cares... wolves and schittbirds ain't stupid.

Not picking on you Pappy, but it really is amazing to me how many people alter their own lives out of fear... or deny that they are smack dab in the middle of a War because CNN tells them they are not.

No, you have a good point. I'm not sure what the answer is but it's not to keep on, keeping on.

Bingo!, so few understand this.

That was then. Unfortunately this is now.

That would be reasonable if those "deemed safe enough to walk among us", really were...However, time and again, those who make the decision--normally a liberal judge who believes all can be turned around--are proven wrong and we find they are not out long until they need to go back...There are extremely violent people, who shouldn't be allowed to walk among us, yet are.

There are many crimes that fall under the classification of a felony....Some worse than others, if only obviously.

Recently spent some time with an individual who deals with the worst of them on a daily basis....He would give you a LOL....

Rights are suspended while incarcerated but rights can be restored under certain conditions after release. Friend long ago messed up and spent a short time in county jail. After release had to lawyer up and go thru the process. But he got everything restored.

I believe the Constitution is the supreme law of the land. I also believe the Constitution means exactly what it says. When it says separation of church and state it does not mean freedom from religion. When it says shall not be infringed, it means exactly that. Dont like it, change it!

in some states rights can be restored, and Georgia is one of them. this for state violations. there is no way for federal felons to have their rights restored.

No, not a judge, I have a strong dislike for attornys and don't think that the justice system does enough to protect society from vicious predators.

I'm just a black and white law and order guy who thinks that violent felons should be permanently removed from society. If given the authority to do so, I would execute them by public hanging in the zip code where their volent crime took place regardless of their age, gender, race, or ethnicity. Within the past couple of days an 18 year old was covicted of shooting and killing a store clerk during an attempted robbery when he was 17. He'll be sentenced in a couple of months, but he has killed and should, IMO, be put down so that he doesn't kill again. Maybe he made a mistake, carrying a gun while attempting to rob that store, but the facts are that he did try to rob that store and he did shoot/kill the clerk. Actions have consequences.

Unfortunately, actions do not have consequences for so many. IMHO that is why the country is in the shape it is.

Then again, this would be a "what if" discussion when the constitution was written.....What if we hadn't hanged him? Well we did, so it will be the problem of someone in the future if they don't..Old philosophical Ben probably would have found much amusement in throwing it around the table.

How convenient.

Not all felonies are created equal. Many are not violent, some can occur from accidents without intent.

Felon doesn't mean what it used to mean.

In Iowa a third conviction in 12 years for OWI makes you a felon. A third conviction in 12 years and one month and you are not a felon

In Illinois, if you leave your concealed carry weapon locked in your glove box and your wife (with no CCH License) takes your vehicle to town she is a felon, if caught.

In Illinois, If you leave an unloaded cased shotgun in your vehicle and your wife (with no FOID card) takes that vehicle to town, she is a felon, if caught.

The word felony is supposed to denote a serious crime with serious consequences. Some jurisdictions have watered that meaning down by making felons of people who acted with no criminal intent.

And what of a felon who has paid his debt to society? Is he supposed to pay for the rest of his existence? Suppose he takes a job, marries, has children and prospers righteously. Has he no right to defend himself and his children?

Dont try to make our founding fathers racists. There are people of each and all races that commit crimes, just as there are people from each and every race that are good people. Its much more about the living conditions and culture people live in / were raised in.

If an individual is judged by the court as a menace to society, that person should be locked away until such time as that menace is considered canceled.
If an individual cannot be considered safe to walk the streets with all of his constitutional guaranties in place, he should never take a free step.

Not real sure how I feel about felons possessing modern firearms.

Say, for example consensual sex between teenagers but with enough age difference for one to be charged with statutory rape which is a felony in many states.

Another example happened to a young nephew of a friend of mine -- charged with possession of small amount of an substance classified as a illegal drug, a misdemeanor, with an added charge of 'while in possession of a firearm' which upgraded it to a felony -- the firearm was a long forgotten old rickety rusty single shot shotgun buried under a pile of basically trash deep in the trunk of the vehicle he was driving. No shotgun ammo or any other kind of ammo was found. He nor anyone else had any idea how long the old shot gun could have been there or even it was there at all.

Another, an old friend, got drunk one cold night back in his youth, woke up on the pavement of the parking lot outside a local business, freezing he started a little fire trying to warm up, the fire got away from him and caused substantial damage to the business.

He went on and led a good productive life, bought sold and traded guns for years when ever he wanted to. Many years later after retiring he attempted to purchase a gun from a firearms dealer and was denied via BATF background check --- reason - his record showed he had a felony arson conviction over 50 years prior.

Judges , lawyers , politicians, and the propaganda machine media is what has twisted the constitution and produced legislation that can be twisted to harm some groups of people while giving lead way to people who need cut off at the knees .
How often have we said and supported “shall not be infringed “
How often have we said “protection is an individual responsibilty”
The we need help gang has been around for a long time “a chicken in every pot” has carried a lot corrupt people in office and still a handy “vote for me scheme”
Kenneth

Dunno. But that has nothing to do with the Founders being felons. Articles implemented a weak central state to avoid another tyrannical government. That experiment didn't work, so along with the new federal state, 2A was in case they had to do it again. You've got the same capabilities they did.

I am of the firm opinion, if a person is not safe to walk among society with a firearm, that person should be removed from society............permanently.

On the other hand, the day is coming when this society shall declare all of us felons for the exercise of our 2'nd Amendment rights. Or for thought crimes associated with such.

What about retards and small children.

The Constitution was composed by elevated thinkers who envisioned a society of free men who would act in a civil manner to form a country with elevated values and that protected itself from predators and those that disregarded those values. Most felons scoff at our values and choose to take advantage of the weak and the naive.

Asocial predators are a fact of life and must be controlled. Criminals believe that decent people are weak and ignore our laws and values...Phug 'em deep and continuous, if they abuse our rights to be free and safe they choose to abandon any claim to those same rights.To equate the protection of the 2A to all who occupy this country is fatuous and simple minded.

Choices have consequences.


mike r

But some things that are felonies nowadays are much less severe than certain misdemeanors I need to get all this lined out and have degrees of felonies or a little different system.

And if it is determined they should never be free they are too dangerous or whatever the circumstance they should no longer be breathing

"And what of a felon who has paid his debt to society? Is he supposed to pay for the rest of his existence? Suppose he takes a job, marries, has children and prospers righteously. Has he no right to defend himself and his children?"

Apparently a felon never entirely pays his debt to society. Ever notice that on a job application form there is the question, "Have you ever been convicted of a felony?" or something similar? Sorry, w can't hire you. Maybe that's one of the reason there is such a high rate or repeat offends.
I know a person who as a young man robbed a stop and rob. He was all of 18 years old. He did a five year sentence, the full term of his conviction and was released. He's in his 50's now and the highest paying job he's been able to get is as a fry cook in a greasy spoon eatery. Even after being on the straight and narrow for all these years that conviction still keeps punishing him.

Another case with a different outcome. My neighbor stopped a crime in progress with a firearm. No one was hurt. Turned out it was kids trying to steal another neighbor's car. Seems one of the cops was the uncle of one of the perps. You can see how this is gonna go. The neighbor was lucky, got a year's supervised probation and six months unsupervised probation after that. Then he asked the court to restore his rights which was granted. The good news was he wasn't fired from his job and stayed until he retired. Big difference on the final outcome of two individuals.

My point is this. Is the system geared so that someone convicted of a felony should be punished until the day they die? Currently this appears to be the case. At one time, you paid your debt to society and were done. Nowadays, it seems you can never repay society enough.
Paul B.

Serious question?
No trap other than the obvious.
Just a friendly question.

You ever commit a felony?
Don't justify. Don't exclude laws you disagree with.
If a zealous cop had been there, you ever commit one?

The .gov will eventually make everyone a felon.

I read that part referenced often.

Can you quote the part of the constitution that states that idea?

Thanks.

I'll put this here now. The question to True Grit was a set up for this
anyway.

We live 25 miles from Commie Maryland.
One of our equidistant big towns is Cumberland.
Have vacationed in Delaware, and the Jersey Shore.

Pretty much always take a little friend with us traveling, end up
with a handgun in MD wayyy too often. Having SWCHP in the 38
is an extra crime in NJ.

Have attended softball/tennis/chorus/band/meet the teacher.....
events. With a gun in the car, and a knife in my pocket.

As a young kid, I was along on various family expeditions that
were common back then. It was feeding the family with protein you
fed from your crops. Today, it's a felony.
(Probably at least close
to qualifying for crop damage permits. The old timers didn't play
paper games. They did what they needed.)


Not counting the deer, none of this was exactly intentional
breaking the law. Much of the school and MD violations were
Oh, Crap! moments. Damn sure meant no harm to anyone, or anything.
Just carrying a defense item hoping to never use it. Or a simple tool
to cut stuff.

Couldn't guess the number of counts the knife/gun thing add up to.
Heck, just remembered my Spyderco Stretch has a 3 1/2" blade.
Not a doubt that it has been places the blade length would be trouble.

Ever street race? Or do anything that can be considered racing.
You don't even have to speed to be charged? Just light to light can do it.

Ever drive way too fast? If you had wrecked and seriously hurt someone.
Amazing how the action isn't always what sets the charge. Instead, it's
the results.

That would be the government you know seldom gets anything right labeling felons and taking hands. The current government would like to find new ways to label you a felon to take your hands.

Freedom is always the answer, even for those you hate.

2A (et al) is chipped away at because the politicians NEVER have enough votes to actually ALTER or AMEND the actual Constitution.

I think I learned that in 6th grade history... and I have always considered myself kinda slow on the uptake of important chit.

How about these scenarios?

Convicted felon Ladell Thornton shot maintenance person Chris Gradoville multiple times and killed him when he had gone to the house that Thornton rented in order to replace a broken toilet.

Jacobi Terry shot store clerk Bahy Altairi and killed him, then he shot another man later the same day, probably with the gun that he stole from the business where he killed the clerk.

Thornton is in his 40's and has a criminal history.

Terry is 18 and has no criminal history.

Both used firearms to kill innocent people.

Should both be terminated or just incarcerated?

I think that they both should be terminated, but I'm a strict law and order guy.

The crooked politicians and/or lawyers are on the list of bad guys, so out of a job isn't adequate by your own reasoning.