I’m going to dive in and build my first AR. I’m a bit torn whether not I want to build a predator rifle, or a pistol first, but I suppose it’s largely irrelevant for the questions I have…I’m hoping to buy all of the components and more or less “snap the gun together”. I would like to avoid any intricate milling work if possible. My goal here is to build a reliable and functional weapon and save a little bit of money while doing it compared to buying a complete gun

Like anything else, there are guys who think X manufacture is better than all the others, when realistically there is really no bad options. Is that the case with uppers and lowers? What manufactures would you avoid and why? Some guys say the lower is not something to get caught up in since they are largely all the same and to spend your money on the barrel and trigger mechanisms, thoughts?

Obviously it’s always great to build something reliable as cheaply as possible, but I have no problem paying more money for something truly better.

~$1000 budget or so

What is your budget?

I've never built one. I nearly have a half dozen times since I bought my first AR15 a Colt HBAR in 1993. I always come up with it's only a hundred bucks more to buy a assembled rifle.

That said PSA seems to make a nice AR!5 for the money. I still have a PSA lower sitting around my brother gave me. A few years ago I researched and decided that Aero Precision lowers were for the money top flight lowers.

Build what you like but a flat top upper with a mid length gas system and a free float handguard with a light weight to medium weight barrel is very versatile rig.

I’d say we have the same focus

Based on what I’m reading it seems like you could build a pretty damn good gun for 1000 bucks. So let’s try for that or less

Definitely build your own if at all possible. If you buy a pre-assembled weapon, you will almost surely decide to start changing out parts on it. Then you are just spending money on extra parts from the original purchase that will most likely end up never being used. Been there and done that. Learned my lesson. Don't forget that you are going to have to have access to a certain number of speciality tools also. You need to either consider this in your budget, or maybe find some you can rent/borrow.

I really wanted to build one.
Wasn't looking for a top tier gun.
Just one that worked.

Looking at the pieces parts, and tools, it became apparent that
one is better off buying a gun from someone like PSA.

However, if you are willing to dig deep enough to learn about bcc, triggers,
barrels...And can get through the BS of the guys who always own the best.
Because it's theirs.
If you are willing to shop and be patient, you can eventually acquire the
parts to build a top quality gun and build IT inexpensively.

Right now you can buy a complete upper and and lower from PSA
for about $500. Some, include a high quality BCG. Or buy a kit.
The upper is assembled, you buy a stripped lower and assemble it
with the kit parts.

Really depends on what you want to end up with.
And how bad you want to say you built it.

I would post in the AR forum here, they have been a bunch of help to me.

Fanboys are always the biggest hurdle lol, I’m in no hurry though.

If you're into noise get a pistol. They are extremely loud. Do you want accuracy? If you do then consider that the cost of mount/rings and scope will cost you as much if not more than the build. Palmetto Armory has some good deals on 223/5.56 builds. If you want something like the 6ARC or Grendel it will cost more and parts are scarce. There is some great stuff out there but you pay for what you get. White Oak Arms, Aero Precision, Wilson Tac., Davidson Defense and LaRue are just some of the companies that service the industry. There are a lot more.

If you're going for a long distance rifle you're going to want to put you money into the Barrel, the bolt, and the upper but you still want a decent lower but you don't need to go dumping $400 into it.

When you're building a pistol make sure you pay attention to your local and state laws.

On the pistol I wouldn't worry about the lower to much as you're not using it for long distance you're using it for short range self defense. one thing you do want to avoid in a lower is the plastic lowers, I had a bud break two plastic lowers from rough handling. The last thing you need is to be in a self defense situation fall and break your lower. Stick with the aluminum lowers.

There are dozens of manufacturers that sell completed rifles for under $1,000 that are capable of shooting sub-MOA with quality ammunition. So not sure what you're after exactly. If you just want the fun of building a rifle that is one thing, if you are after an accurate sub-$1,000 AR, there 'res plenty of choices available.

If you spring for the tools and fixtures necessary to build the first one, it will become an addiction, always just one more. However if you have friends that are of like mind, then you can share the cost of getting set up to play.

I got bit 25 years ago, and have them from .204 to .308, and, as a wildcat freak, the .25 X .223 is nifty, (grandkids have popped some deer with that one), then they came out with the Grendel. AR15.com will be your friend on a build and their Equipment Exchange is a good place to look for needed/wanted parts.

Even if I build a predator rifle, there’s really no “long distance” anything where I’m at. I would say 200 yards would be as far as I will ever be able to shoot at game. It’s pretty dense around here.

I bought my first stripped lower and parts kit about 12+/- years ago.

Guy told me to build it "inside" a large white trash bag.

I had my Leatherman, a 12 penny finish nail, some paperclips and some scotch tape. Used a stapler as a hammer.

I built it in my cubical at work while the Brownell YouTube video played on my monitor.

Took about 20 minutes. Easy as pie. I did mar the finish slightly at the bolt catch roll pin and the trigger roll pin.

The trash bag saved my butt on detent springs et al.

PSA brand.

Last piece of advice... OIL THE BOLT. I use Prius motor oil (new or used) 0W-20.

SUPER EASY.

Punch is better than a nail.

Hammer is better than a stapler.

ETC.

Had a guy build me one several years ago.....

Aero Precision upper/lower/Shilen SS 7 twist barrel in 300 Black...good trigger too

Probably my least used gun in the safe.....runs well though

ARs can be made to shoot very well ...

1000 yard group (friend's rifle) with heavies...



For the record... he is very good... and very experienced.

I like a 1:7 twist barrel, but I shoot 62s and up mostly.

Spikes or Stag stripped lower
Dpms lower parts kit or similar
Buy a completed upper?

That’s good advice there.

I’ve assembled several but I’m not sure that you save much money.

The lower is essentially just a trigger group housing, mag well and handle. The upper is where your bolt, bolt carrier, barrel, barrel extension, and rail is contained, the parts that really matter. You can spend big bucks on a rail but a decent free floated rail and the barrel and bolt are where I would spend my money. Milspec triggers suck but for your purposes any from a PSA nickel boron coated trigger for $30 bucks or so on up will be night and day better and will be good to go IMO.

As far as reliability AR’s have been around long enough and enough of them built and scrutinized that just about any will generally be reliable for civilian use. The higher end milspec and better parts are great but unless you’re using it for prolonged use in a war zone it really isn’t needed for Joe average that shoots a few rounds hunting, a mag or two at the range and puts it away clean for home protection or back in the safe until the next range day. I like quality guns but a cheapo AR realistically will do what most people need it to do without issue.

What!!no can?

You might want to also post in the AR and Assault Rifle section for more input.

Start with a Noveske lower..

1000 bucks?

PSA and build two

If you’re thinking about a 16” barrel go ahead and get sn 18” one. That will leave a couple inches to cut and crown should it be necessary. Otherwise you’re stuck with what you got.

When ya buy the lower, make sure it's classified as a "receiver" on the BATCMF form, and not a "rifle", just in case ya wanna go pistol with it someday.

I went with assembled uppers from PSA for the ones I built years ago. I would watch for sales on the main features that I was after, such as barrel length and material (stainless) and twist. I then paired with a stripped lower and added the final touches, like swapping put grips and forends.

Yes. I got caught up in that. It is fun doing the looking and then assemble the finished product.

kwg

Keep in mind these are rough #'s and many different things can affect them.

if you are 1" L or R at 100 yards you will be approximately 2" off at 200 yards, Accuracy is still pretty important at 200 yard distances.

oh yea...PSA

https://palmettostatearmory.com/ar-15/ar15-guns/rifles.html

not yet.......isn't it like sending joe & the hoe $200 for a stamp or silly schidt ?

Aero precision. Bravo company.

Ive got several and of them all, the very 1st one is the only factory built gun I own. Its a Colt 6920 and its the sloppiest, least accurate gun I own. Ive built on Anderson (poverty pony) lowers, PSA lowers, Griffin Armament lowers, all have been perfect. Larue makes a FANTASTIC trigger, the MBT too. Just jump in the game and get your feet wet!

Brands to stay away from:
Bear Creak
Radical

Come on down to the AR forum and we'll answer all your build questions, and probably cost you some money with new idea for additional builds.

Here's a recent thread on inexpensive AR builds
Inexpensive AR builds

Here's a few guidelines.
Your two most important parts or the barrel and BCG, and some will argue followed by the trigger. Spend your money here and save on the commodity parts.
So long as your lower is dimensionally correct, it'll work fine. This is a good place to save money. Uppers receivers are a little more critical, for an accuracy build, they tighter they fit to the barrel extension the better. Beyond that, dimensionally correct is good enough. so most people save money here.

Triggers, ALG is nice for the money, I like a good Geissele Trigger.

Lower parts kits. Any of the mid tier and up kits, starting as PSA CMMG etc. and up are good, just don't buy Anderson for the LPK, they are know for out of spec springs and pins.

Just about everything else is personal preference.

Absolutely. I just didn’t want you to think I was trying to build some kind of match rifle

My younger son was home over Christmas so we put one together out of mostly just parts I had about the place. I picked up a PSA ‘blem’ lower for $149 some months ago. I had an A4 style upper, an Anderson Mfg BCG, I bought a no name keymod 15 floating handguard and the rest of the upper parts for $120. It’s all just mil-spec stuff with the exception of two things, the barrel and the trigger group. I always spring for a quality barrel and a good trigger group. Here’s why:



100 yards. 20” SS Wilson government profile 223 Wylde chamber 1/9 twist. Trigger is a Rise Armamant 3.5# single stage trigger. Scope is an old 3x9 Tasco I had sitting around so we could go give it a try. Always use a good barrel.

Pic of completed rifle:



This is a $600 gun as shown.

Thats a hell of a shooter for a $600 build. I would take those results any day of the week. Good Job.

Now that is motivating!

Get a lower and parts kit for it. Pick your stock, grip and trigger I like geissele myself.

Then pick your upper or as close to it as you can find. Change it how you want. I'm a fan of the super slim handguard myself. After that find an optic you prefer and a quality mount. That's what I did to have a mostly custom rifle for reasonable, usually under your budget (not including optic)

My favorite part to spend more money on is the trigger, because having a good one can well...make it feel like you're not shooting a crappy ar15 trigger. It is the upgrade you will 'feel' the most.
I like the LaRue MBT series, they're great for the money.
Geissele also very good, usually more expensivethan LaRue.
If I had 1k to spend I'd probably buy a spikes or psa lower, LaRue mbt, and a Bravo Company 16in upper.

Me too

I agree 100%... NO Bear Creak and NO Radical

Hearing peoples opinions on manufacturers to avoid is probably more valuable to me than hearing what people prefer. I will definitely take those two off of the list

If you are just having fun... do a PSA. Barrel should last you a good long while 3k+ rounds or so. Very cost effective.

If you plan to really abuse the gun get a better barrel. I forget, but maybe it was Shaw?

Couple of friends were bragging on a particular brand holding up very well after 10k-15k rounds. Anyone help me out here?

I do recall the barrel was 3 times more expensive than most.

I'll get back to this after I talk to Chris and Tycen.

----------------------------------------------------

I've built a ton of guns with cheap Green Mountain blanks... vast majority of these guns will never see 2k rounds... fantastic accuracy for $100 blanks... they just don't last forever.

did I miss the caliber ?

5.56 or BLK ?

If I build a pistol it will be 5.56 with a 223 wylde Barrel… If I build a predator rifle I’m not quite sure what caliber I’lldo yet…

No matter what I build, it will never see over 3000 rounds, pretty sure of that

I have built ARs in 9mm, 45acp, .460 Rowland

.223, 6x45, .300 B/O, 358 Macho (before .350 Legend can about), 375 SOCOM, .458 SOCOM (AVOID Wilson Combat on either SOCOM).

.308 Winchester, .338 Federal, .358 Winchester, .375 Raptor and .458 Lott (yes, I said that right)...

It is VERY addictive.

HAVE FUN!

Fair enough...

It's not that the barrel will be toast at 3k... it will just have waning accuracy.

3k is a lot of rounds IMHO.

Agreed haha. I don’t think I have fired 3000 rounds through all of my hunting guns combined 🤷🏼‍♂️

How long ago was this? Was this 10k-15k rds done over a couple yrs? Or in one yr? 10k-15k is a lot rds if it was done in a year.. I’m about to embark on a somewhat 1K rd one day torture test on a cheap AR build I’m doing.. hopefully all the parts show up next week or so. Far from the 10k-15k rounds but I figure majority of AR owners will never put 1k rds through their AR. Your buddies are the exception..

being a dedicated p/dog shooter prob the last 25 yrs.......

Pac Nor has been my barrel of choice..Savage action & assemble myself

Had a 6BR I know I ran it 12K rds over 10 yrs...now retired but still kilt dogs @ 600 yds last day in the field

Shown in pic my ole 20 Vartarg (20 Fireball) 14 yrs & still running....pushing 10K rds & still flippin dogs

Some barrels are better than others....Pac Nor has been good to me

It might have been a Noveske CHF chrome lined barrel… they advertise that they’re built to M249 SAW specs.


To the OP, whatever you do, don’t waste a bunch of money on a high end lower… it’s just a box to hold the trigger group and magazine. The only thing you get out of a name on a lower is bragging rights (assuming the cheaper lower meets the most basic specs for pin alignment, etc)

Chris has a mechanized (motor driven) Dillon 1050... that makes insanity WAY TO EASY sometimes.

Noveske has tremendous reputation... chrome lined adds excellent durability.

Tycen just confirmed it was a ER Shaw on a Stag... used in the torture test.

Sorry SP... I misread. Get a PSA upper IMHO... and spend any extra on a quality trigger. Parts kit triggers will disappoint 90% of the time.

Impressive durability... I would not have expected that. Thanks for the intel on Pac Nor.

May want to shoot a pistol length upper before you decide. The blast and concussion from them can be pretty bad without at least a blast can.

First build, I’d suggest a 16” barrel, mid length gas. PSA should have something for well under $1k

I just had someone message me saying another option would be to buy an 80% lower. Not something I’m interested in at all. I don’t want to have any milling or drilling to do.

Smart, pretty easy to have an expensive paperweight

When these companies list “blem” items, what exactly is the issue??

Just cosmetic that’s all..

Dunno if it's been posted, but buy the lower and upper from the same mfg, so it's way more likely they'll line up with no wobble.

If ya buy em in person, put em together and check fit.

Good thought

I've had good luck with both aero precision and PSA. Sometimes I use other barrels like black hole weaponry. An 18" rifle length with a mid to lighter weight barrel is one of my favorite all around combinations.

I'm currently putting together a 16" mid length and trying to decide on a good lighter weight barrel. I have aero M4e1 upper and lower, aero atlas s1 handguard. Triggertech adjustable trigger. I just need to pick a stock and barrel.

I just build two similar 18" guns in 6 arc and 223 wilderness. Both with aero m4e1s, atlas handguards, and triggertech adjustable triggers. The 6 arc has a gen3 prs fixed stock the 223 is adjustable carbine str or something. I used ballistic advantage varies on these and I'm not really impressed with the 6 arc yet but have only ran a few factory loads so far. One was moa but not much better. Loading should bring it in some.

PSA has the best budget brand kits etc IMO. There stuff works well especially for the price.

Bb

Wobble between the upper and lower is cosmetic.

^^^ in fact come to think of it, of the 9 AR’s I have, only my 1990’s Colt 6920 has matching uppers and lowers. None of them wobble excessively (not that it matters)… certainly not more than the rack M-16 that I placed top 10% at the National Matches at Camp Robinson in 2000.

So, spend your hard earned money on a wobbly fit.

That way, ever time ya shoot it, ya can think ta yourself, "it's only cosmetic."

Sounds like fun.

It has no affect on function or accuracy. If you care about cosmetics, then care about upper/lower fit. It’s literally subjective.

No one said it did.

But there's no reason ta buy an inferior product, on purpose.

Hey, I get it. Some people really care about that kind of stuff… some don’t (me). It’s no different than a scratch on the finish or a poorly fitted forestock. It has no affect on function, but bothers some. To me, AR’s are tools. Some of mine are rattle can painted, and get rattle canned every few years for different reasons. It puts a bullet where I want it reliably and that’s what I care about.

OBJECTIVELY, upper/lower fit is cosmetic.

On the other hand, I have other rifles I feel different about- I’d my Shiloh Sharps 45/70 was poorly fit to the stock it would bug me.

^^^^^^^^^^^^ My thoughts exactly!

AR-15 Accu Wedge will fix any "wobble"... if "wobble" bothers you. $2



I concur on an 18" barrel. I concur with a bought upper (at least the first time... and until you buy Go/No Go gauges).

Regardless of what you buy... you will be impressed with how simple and easy it all is. YOU MUST OIL YOUR BOLT... I use 0W-20 motor oil.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Personally, I prefer AKs. This Boris guy is hilarious... built an AK from a garden shovel... https://www.northeastshooters.com/xen/threads/diy-shovel-ak-photo-tsunami-warning.179192/

His pics got cut by PhotoSuckIt... and are below (you kinda have to "back and forth").

https://militaryhumor.net/homemade-ak-47-made-from-shovel/

Lots of really good info here. You guys are saving me a lot of trial and error… A.k.a. money

Aero lowers also have nylon tipped screws to be able to take out any slop between lower and upper. For the money I really like the m4E1 lowers with the integral trigger guard.

So do the current Stag lowers.

Stag has blem FDE lowers in stock for 65 bucks.

Here are some of my “builds”. I typically put my lowers together and buy my uppers.

Top one is a BCM 14.5 inch mid-length upper ($805 with BCM bolt carriers) and an Aero lower ($124 including the guts)
Bottom is an Aero lower ($160 with A2 stock) and PSA 18 inch “Cold Hammer Forged” upper (FN barrel) with rifle-length gas system and Geissele handguard ($599 with PSA bolt carrier)



Here is a 14.5 mid-length and 11.5 carbine BCM uppers ($805 a piece including bolt carriers) and Aero lowers ($124 a piece)



Here is my KISS “pistol”. PSA 10.5 upper with carbine gas system ($279), Aero bolt Carrier ($80) and Aero lower ($124). This gun runs as well as my BCM “pistol” at ranges from 0-100. So if all you need is that, not much use for premium barrel and all that crap.



Biggest thing I can say about my builds, is I knew how heavy I wanted them to be and what handguards, etc. It was easier just to buy already made uppers with the components I wanted vs building because they were available.

Man oh man those guns have me drooling.

None cost over $1000 as a base rifle. One thing you might do to save money is do parts swaps. Someone might have a grip you like and you might have a charging handle you don’t need, or some QD rings or something. I wish you weren’t on the other side of the country. I got a big box of AR parts and all of the tools.

What do you guys thinks about a complete lower vs getting a stripped lower?? The required work is obvious on the stripped, but I’d get what I want and learn about each part… is it worth the time or can quality completes be had??

Either way...

Building a lower (sooner or later) is good for the soul... IMHO

Anything but 5.56......

???

I am guessing what he is saying is that ARs in a huge list of OTHER calibers is where the fun really is. Actually I agree with that.

In my world, I would trade any AR I have (in .223/5.56) for an AK... or a PSA KS47.

5.56/223 is an obnoxious noisy piss ant of a round.

DO NOT build an AR in 7.62 x 39... you will always contend with feed drama (EVEN with the best mags)... get a PSA KS47 instead.

Regardless... jump right in on your build of an AR-15. Don't let other complicate that.

It depends on what kind of deals you can find. Most complete lowers will have mil-spec triggers. To me, that’s fine for pistol builds and such. If you want a really nice trigger, you might just do the build yourself. There are some parts kits that don’t have a trigger included if you want to source a different one.

Aero was selling completed lowers for around $200-220. I have a BCM blem complete lower that cost me $329. They may be more now.

Stripped lower can be very fun...

PSA

My mechanic just got one of these...

One I built for strafing Yotes. D Tech bench rest upper...