Want opinions on electric vehicle charging in an attempt to research whether to sell current sedan, very low mileage 2017 Nissan Maxima Platinum model, verses buying new electric vehicle. Our Maxima is nearly 5 model years old with 17, 500 plus miles on the odometer.
My thoughts are to build a solar charging station on the roof of the house. Any sedan vehicle does not get used in bad weather or for long trips. My truck is our go to long haul vehicle.
What is this basic charge time, amp requirement for say a Tesla. How many volt/amp hours are we talking.
I am a retired power plant, large electric plant electrician that could do all work. Would only need materials. Our house is situated with good sunlight and could erect medium to large solar array.
Opinions, information, yours thoughts. Thanks for the help. MTG

The pay out on saved money from using an all Electric Vehicle is not worth the costThis gas thing will change next election.I believe hydrogen powered cars will be more of a viable option in the next 10 years.With only 17,000 miles on a car that is probably payed off and you use so little even $5.00 a gallon gas will not hurt you much until we get rid of the idiot in The Whitehouse.

You're better fixed than most people as far as the cost of setting up your charging station. It sounds as though your usage is very similar to ours: my wife's car is pretty much short runs around town and the boys use it when they are home from school. My truck is our usual long-haul vehilc. An EV would probably be a great replacement for my wife's car, except.... her BMW is in a very similar circumstance as your car: it's a '17 with quite low mileage and paid for. In today's market, especially, it makes more sense for us to continue to drive our 5 year old vehicles.

Easily found, thinking it may take one hell of a solar array.

The recommended home charging installation for Tesla vehicles is a 240 volt NEMA 14- 50 outlet. This outlet is commonly used for electric ranges and large recreational vehicles. Installed with a 50-amp circuit breaker, this outlet enables a recharge rate of about 25 miles per hour.
Consult a licensed electrician to review the electrical load of your home prior to installation. They will design your charging system and obtain a permit for a general purpose NEMA 14-50 outlet from your local building department. After installation, the electrician will schedule an inspection to approve the new electrical circuit and design.
This guide provides reference for specifications to install this outlet. Since each installation is custom to the home, all hardware for the NEMA 14-50 outlet will be provided by your electrician.
 Voltage: Single phase, 208-250 volt AC supply, 60 hertz 

 Circuit Breaker: 50 amp (125% overcurrent protection)
 Operating Current: 40 amp (maximum continuous current)
 Conductors: 6 AWG, Copper Wire Only. Upsize wiring for installations over 150 feet
 Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter: Not required 

 Service Disconnect: Not required 

 Receptacle Recommendation: High quality, industrial grade receptacle

 Examples: Hubbell part # HBL9450A, Cooper part #5754N
 Ventilation: Not required
 Outdoors: Install with NEMA 3R rainproof enclosure

25 miles per hour? So to get a 400 mile range that is 16 hours to charge?

If your battery were stone cold dead, yes, 16 hours.

Super Chargers are pretty quick.

That chart Jeff posted is accurate. I wired up a charger for my brother in his garage. I used clothes drier receptacle from Lowes, cost $17. I used solid copper wire, according to Tesla specs, I think it was 10 gauge, this was a year ago I don't remember exactly. It is 220 with a 40 amp breaker. Brother gets 23 miles of travel for one hour of charging.

Your idea is great, if you could charge your Tesla up with solar cells you would really have something. How big of a solar panel would you need to deliver that much juice?

By the way my brother loves his Tesla. He has a real nice Nissan Frontier, he hardly drives the pickup any more. As you said, great for the 120 mile day trip, not good for a long trip. He drove the Tesla to Atlanta for Christmas, 220 miles, had to stop on the way down for a 20 minute charge, stopped on the way back for a 30 minute charge.

I am happy I was not stuck in Virginia last wk& this wknd.

The problem is still the cost of battery replacement. Plus disposal. Hasbeen

Not only that, but cold climates zap the batteries capacities as well. I worked with a lady that had a Chevy Volt. She could make it the 38 miles to work in the summer all on battery. Winter, she got nine miles before battery was dead and switched over to gas.

By doing it yourself you might actually be able to make it work economically but your car will have sit there charging while the sun is out. Also, if you're not charging your car you'll want to use the power generated for other purposes.

Problem with super chargers as you call them is that probably 90-95% of the power companies have put 480V off limits for residential use. Industrial or agricultural, yes. We just called them fast chargers, one problem was they tended to puke batteries quicker in industrial uses.

Tesla car batteries are said to be designed to last 300,000-500,000 miles or about 21-35 years, based on the average amount of miles driven by Americans in one year, which is typically around 14,263

As long as they keep making gasoline, they can stick electric vehicles up their azz! But then I’m too old to worry about it anyway.

Super Charger were not intended for home use.
They are more likely to be found at service stations and hotels and the like.
Fast Chargers are not the same as Super Chargers.

MTGunner: I am NOT smart enough to advise you on your trade and/or the electric vehicles but I want to relay this
At about milepost 15 on Interstate 15 here in SW Montana, in the town of Lima (population 325) they just installed a "FREE" electronic car charging station.
Its been there half a year or more and as you may know Interstate 15 is the "main" highway" from Canada to Los Angeles, kalifornicationkopia!
It also goes through Salt Lake City, Las Vegas and Butt, Montana.
I have NEVER seen a car hooked up to any of the several electric outlet stantions there (your tax dollars at work!)!
Anyway if you gets yourself an electric car you can charge it for free while you eat breakfast, lunch or dinner at Jan's Cafe, right next door (sensational homemade pies!).
Good luck what ever you decide to do.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

I have a colony of sheep (sleeping liberals) who I use to as a power source.

Their brains put out significantly less power than I had hoped...

It probably will not be the lack of petroleum products that causes you to buy a electric car.
It'll more likely be your insurance company.

Over 70? DUI? Too many wrecks or tickets?
Fully autonomous car for you, your azz will be restricted the back seat.

Yo, if you are going to quote me, quote the whole thing. By your specs, or super charger 480V 3 phase 100 amps per leg. Ran the same damn specs for electric forklifts. Fast charging which you deleted tended to puke the batteries quicker.

Our plug in hybrid pacifica charges about 12 hours on 120 volt for a full charge. We haven't bothered to add a 240v charger yet. Ours only runs about 30 miles on a charge and the rhetoric gas V6 kicks in. We usually just make one trip to town a day so we do the slow overnight 120v still. If it had a bigger battery or we used it more we'd have to have a 240 charger.

I have a 7.6 K watt solar system that was already a bit smaller than we needed vefore the van. With the van we get a power bill ever month now because our solar system just isn't large enough. I figure it cuts about $100 a month off of our bill on average. I wish I had at least a 10kwatt solar system. Our old hot tub uses some power.

Bb

........... You sure that thing is free ? Sounds kind of unbelievable. Besides; I've heard that those things won't do anything until you stick your credit or debit card into them. But then, I know absolutely nothing about that stuff.

I see you are in Montana. It gets cold in Montana, at least I've heard it does. Cold is the enemy of battery vehicles. The batteries have to have heaters to get them warm enough to work. Teslas can lose 40% of their range in cold weather, and that's their actual range, not the phony range they advertise. It will be a long time and a lot of convincing before I'll ever buy one.

There are a number of businesses around here that have charging stations customers can use for free while shopping or whatever.

Those of us who use vehicles for something other than getting groceries and a ride to the office are SO f'ckd.

I charge my Telsa with a Tesla brand charger I had installed in my garage. It puts out 48 amps, and I charge a few time a week for around 2 - 3 hours (I usually have around 40% left before I plug it in). I've programmed the car to only charge between midnight and 7:00 am, when my electricity rate are lowest. Before I installed the Tesla charger, I just plugged the car into a 110v outlet in my garage, but that does take a long time to get the battery charged. This might not be a problem if you just using your EV to do all the short car trips (which is how most people use their cars, most of the time). I've got a solar system (~7.5 KW) and "net metering" with the power company, so that helps.

I love that less of my money goes to the Sheiks in the middle east, and right now where I live gas is around 4.95 a gallon for regular. So I would think that for most people having one of their cars be electric makes sense.

The new Chevy truck coming out that is all electric is supposed to have around 565 hp and 410 ft lbs of torque and 450 miles max range on battery. Supposed to be able to tow a 10K trailer for 200 miles. Even if all that is true, I wouldn't buy one...

Keep in mind if you have the urge to buy an electric vehicle and you think you can install a fast charger or a super charger to make it worthwhile you might as well forget it. A fast charger will help, but will take an awful lot of power and add substantially to your electric bill- even if you have the capacity to install it on your electrical service. Remember, you need more than a few empty breaker spaces to have the capacity for a load that large- the service has to be designed and installed with the load in mind, all the way to the utility

. Depending on what part of the country you live in, this could easily be more than a gas bill for a gas powered vehicle for the same miles. A super charger isn't feasible in a residential setting. The cost of setting up a 480V charger that can put out the kind of amperage needed for a super charger would take a stand alone generator of probably 140-150 KW running at practically full load for the duration of the charge, which would probably take 1-2 hours for a full charge....

Using a residential solar set up to charge your electric vehicle? Impractical is the nicest thing I can say about it.... even if you only have to drive a few miles a day....

At this point in history, electric vehicles are a smart thing if your lifestyle allows it. The tax breaks alone make them attractive.

But the real world doesn't work that way. Not yet. Not even close.

They leave most of us in fly over country without any options

Your only option is to pay the taxes they aren't or get on the welfare.

Or not

Buying an electric vehicle can make sense in some applications. A commuter car would be one if them. I just installed a fast charger for a buddy. His commuter bill went from $200 a month in fuel to $45 extra on the electric bill. He bought the car used for $25k. It’ll take 14 years to pay for itsself via energy savings, but he needed a new car anyway so he considers it a win.

The recently awarded Montana “Fast Charge Your Ride” grants paid for with money from the Volkswagon Settlement Fund were awarded to four successful applicants:

GBP Enterprises, Gardiner: One fast-charging station at the Gardiner Travel Center

Missoula Electric Cooperative, Seeley Lake: One fast-charging station and one Level 2 charger at the Seeley Lake Community Foundation

NorthWestern Energy, Big Timber, Billings, Conrad, Deer Lodge, Dillon, Great Falls, Hamilton, Hardin and Helena: One fast-charging station and one Level 2 charger at a Town Pump in each community

Town Pump, Eureka, Kalispell and Libby: One fast-charging station and one Level 2 charger at a Town Pump in each community

The funds awarded focus on establishing fast-charging locations for Montana’s key travel corridors including Interstate 15, Interstate 90, U.S. Highway 2 and U.S. Highway 93.

“For that $3.40 [per gallon of gas], instead of getting 25 miles of range, you would actually get 180 miles of range with the average electric vehicle that's out there," Link

I have a friend in New Mexico that has solar panels and loves the savings (smart guy and really studied the topic)... I considered the same for my WV place... and the "math" was about 45% of his success.

Bottomline, study the benefits of solar and the quality of the panels (i.e. there are various efficiency grades) before you begin. Have a couple of contractors advance your knowledge/understanding... IMHO.

As for the car... I really have no opinion. We bought a Prius in 2010 and it has been brilliant... we also got big tax breaks... It will become free at 235k miles.

Will there be tax breaks on EVs? Probably... When?

Personally I doubt I will ever own an EV... my life simply does not support a need... but I am kind of the opposite of an urbanite.

Good luck in your search and decision.

Some of the charts posted here have some of the info in them but there is a lot of noise.

For a Tesla this is pretty straight forward: the fastest charging option for your home that you can buy from them right now is a Wall Connector and you'd put it on a 240v 60a circuit.

You can't buy a Supercharger, at least not from Tesla, even if you could feed it. We have 480v to the shop but put 2 Wall Connectors on distinct 60a circuits, because Tesla doesn't sell anything bigger right now. The graphic above that refers to "up to 80a" is for multiple Wall Connectors on a single 240v circuit and they can decide among themselves how to share that 80a. A single one on an 80a circuit will charge no faster than it will on 60a. Obviously you have to have the available capacity on the service coming into the site or at least be able to schedule the charging when your demand frees it up. Don't charge the car while the electric melt furnace is running.

At the moment we don't even own a Tesla. It might be they never deliver the ones we have on order, who knows. We have friends who charge when they visit us and the mileage they get per hour of charging varies by which car they have. 35 miles of range for each hour hooked up, is pretty typical.

Dear Millenials, I gots me a 600 amp Lincoln welder powered by a Detroit diesel, should I buy an electric car since it looks like I got the charging problem under control?

That is hilarious and I'm just a carpenter.

The irony of this is that my wife says yes, go ahead and buy an electric car. But....I ain’t driving it! She will not give up her 300hp Nissan Maxima Platinum for a frigging roller skate car. She loves her nice ride and on occasion I get to drive it...FAST.


Oh well. Guess that is the end of that for now. MTG

There is no way that 99% of women will remember to plug in their car. That's not conjecture, it's pure science.

Rollerskate? My brother's Tesla would blow the Maxima out of the water.

EVs are overhyped junk!

One of our county attorneys has a Tesla that he has been showing off every time he parks at the county building. Sharp car. Two weeks ago it was getting loaded onto a flatbed in front of the county building, haven’t seen it since. Made me chuckle.

How many gallons of gas can you buy with what this solar system will cost?

So, Simonkenton, you do not own one. Your brother does, but you....NOT! Hype BS. Do not care if it would. Started this as an information request and you throw down your brothers quantlet. WEAK! MTG
.

My friend rented a Tesla and drove it Dallas. He stopped in Waco at a super charger site and when he tried to go again he got the blue screen of death and car wouldn't do anything. He said he looked on the web and found the instructions to reboot the car by holding two buttons down for 10 seconds. After that he was able to drive away.

They only make sense if nothing breaks or none of the batteries puke out. The odds of one of those happening is pretty high after a few years. I'd rather have a used Corolla.

My goodness, mtgunner. I gave you what you asked for, direct first hand information about electricity consumption for the Tesla, and you come back at me with this hostility.

Your post that your “brothers” Tesla was not necessary. Not in competition with electric car muscle. I asked for mere information. You answer with what was less than necessary. MTG

This is one of the better threads that we have had in a while.

Yes, I agree. I have made an informed decision to wait and plan to build my solar array for charging. Lots of new ingenuity out there plus lots of deals on equipment. The one thing that is necessary is to time sunlight availability during morning to sunset. We live near the west slope of the Rocky’s and sun does not appear sometimes until 10:00AM. Summer we can get sunlight until nearly 10:00PM. Will research availability. As stated I need no electrician nor an engineer to plan or install. Have always done my own work. Believe in over installing. Have been working on neighbors solar array doing the maintenance as we are on a shared well. I take care of the work and we split the cost on the well.
I will post more in the future. MTG

You’re forgetting that ICE powered cars require maintenance too. I’m not going electric as I often have to travel extended distances. 500 miles in a Ram 1500 today.

It appears most missed that part of your original post.

Just a side point since it is that time of year...
The law of supply and demand tells us that if we stop building gasoline and diesel vehicles the it will become less economical to produce heating fuels therefore their prices will go up...

thats the thing. Effieciency cost wise and time wise says 480. No neighborhood is set up for 480. IE even if you wanted to up grade the power companies can't provide 480 without redoing all the lines.

If this becomes common just think all the blackouts.. Once again we don't have enough electricity to deal with heat and cooling across the country. Much less EV. Solar could be independent but I've no clue the cost to produce 60 amps 240 to charge X hours.

I suppose if you can afford the array, storage batteries and or time, plus the car and ONLY solar charged it then it could be a thing. For minor trips and such.

Of course everything usually comes down in cost eventually.

That said the hate of nuclear power and the getting rid of fossil fuel plants for power...
NONE of this bodes well.

Keep developing electrical and solar and wind, see if its self sufficient eventually. IE not subsidized. Then maybe we can get somewhere.

That said, if your service is big enough to add the amps, putting in a plug 240 really is nothing at all to it. ITs not hard. Not rocket science. but do have to have knowledge.

Good grief.

Spend 20,000 to save 5000 in gas...

all require maintenance. Question is normal maintenance vs normal battery replacement. I"ve heard 5000 to replace battries or more. I can replace a complete engine for that myself. Can still actually rebuild one less than 2500 I'm guessing. Having one done by a god child now will be only parts and less than 1000.

I'd be a willing man to be that as the demand for more electricity goes up as we think we are going to abandon a proven energy source that 50 buck bill is going to get a whole lot closer to 200.

Its not that it can't even out in the end. It could I simply say its a lot of work to break even in the end. It certainly won't get ahead at least with current tech.

Never mind the available carbon fuel reserves vs battery material reserves IIRC.

I'm not against anything new. But it has to make sense.

Since this is a gun place, I liken it to the AR15. Used to be somewhat useless and unproven. Many didn't like it. I didn't because it was short range. And felt weird. Along comes years of tech and the AR feels perfect to me and I've shot it successfully out to 1000 yards and more and taken game to almost 600 so far with only the 223 round and we have many other calibers in the safe to boot.

Will certainly at least be a learning curve as to how these things work.

If we didn't use 4WD and carrying capacity and had extra cash I'd be willing to buy a used one or cheap one just for putting around to town and back on most days. just to see.

I read on the Tesla website a few years ago that you can order a model S, their flagship high end luxury car with 3 ways to charge. 110 volts would take 8 hours to charge, 220 about 3 hours, and their supercharging stations of 440 volts, 45 minutes. No one should let the vehicle go completely dead. Just like gasoline when you reach about 1/4 of a tank or 1/4 of a charge left, get the thing charged. They had an extended range version that was supposed to go 320 miles on a charge at 70 mph. This is over 4 hours driving. There is a supercharging station 2 miles from my house. I have considered it. Tesla is also going to offer a solar package for campers that you can carry in the back of your car or their new truck, that can fold out and charge the vehicle in about 2 days. Slow, but if you go camping and stay a couple of days or longer, can get your vehicle charged. Their truck is supposed to go 500 miles on a charge. You have to pay extra for the extended range batteries. Mileage is also decreased if you are towing a boat or camper, or running faster than 70 mph or using the air conditioner for extended periods. Tesla has chargers all over the country and they follow the interstate system. They have also struck deals with hotels to put them at hotel locations to charge overnight. They should also put them a camping locations too. Tesla knew they would need charging stations so they began to install them as soon as they started selling cars. The sold about 1 millon cars last year.

Also, one university has developed a way to make a cheaper battery using lithium sodium instead of cobalt. Sodium is cheaper and is found in salt. It can charge faster and go further for less money. They are figuring out how to make this battery in mass production. It could power your phone for days without charging. So battery technology is catching up. Power is cheaper than fuel, and you don't have to change oil.

Tesla is not accurate on their web site. My brother's Tesla gets 5 miles of driving, for one hour of charging on 110. On the 220 volt, 40 amp charger that I wired up for him, he gets 23 miles of driving for one hour of charging. In ten hours on the 220 he gets a full recharge. Now those superchargers on the interstates are phenomenal, and charge at a rate of 310 miles in an hour.

Another bit of misinformation is maximum range. Supposedly my brother can go 300 miles. But that is if he charges the battery fully. If you always charge the battery all the way, long term it will damage the battery. Brother goes with a 80 per cent charge, and he can go about 220 miles on a charge.

Hope the new batteries they are developing are better. What if he goes 90% charge? Any more mileage? The new Tesla trucks, delayed until first quarter 2022, are supposed to get 500 miles in extended range models. They are having trouble, of all things, how to install windshied wipers on the sloped front end. Also, the sloped rear doesn't allow standard campers or caps, tool racks or anything else to be installed over the bed. Management wants to make the beds standard sizes, maybe with removable side panels to remove the slopped features, and to compete with Ford, external plugs for powering your home. It may end up looking more like a standard truck than a space ship. Trucks are longer, thus allowing more room for batteries for extended ranges.

Those are the direct costs. The indirect costs are wars in the middle east, enriching people who hate us, and environmental damage(more controversial). I bet most of Europe is regretting being dependent on Russia for gas and oil right now.

At the very least it will be an interesting and entertaining project. New technologies don't always payoff instantly.

That is still a very long time.

Thirty mns to go 170 miles???? ROTF LMAO.. In TEN minutes I can fill my truck and go nearly 600 miles... Geeez...

The long charging time makes the Tesla unfit for trips over 180 miles.

yet if the admin and govt didn't hate fossil fuel one could produce here, as we were under Trump, and be better off all along. Prices down. 3rd world begging to sell to us, win win all around. Disregard there is almost 500 years of fossil fuels left here in the USA and in that 500 years no telling how much more the earth will regenerate as time passes.

True, not very practical for most of us. But if you live on the west coast and paying $5 a gallon it begins to sound like a better deal. Then factor in no oil/filter changes and reduced maintenance overall and it starts to sound better.

As I have predicted several times in threads like this, the future of long distance electrics lies in "filling stations" where the battery is replaced by robots. It would resemble oil change places. You'd pull in and park over the robot, which would remove the battery from under your vehicle and replace it with a fully-charged one. You'd be billed for the difference in charge state ( a "half tank" of juice versus an empty, etc) and you'd be gone in a few minutes. To facilitate this, there'd be only two or three standardized battery sizes, and vehicles would be designed to facilitate the process. The exchanged ones would be charged at the station and stored for their next use.

You'd only plug in when at home or in town.

But who controls the residential and commercial electricity rates?

Want to be subject to their whims and fancy?

Yahoo! Hook that 600 amp Lincoln up to your Tesla, rev up that screaming Jimmy Diesel, turn the amps up to max, and supercharge 170 miles in 15 minutes. Hell, let it run for 30 minutes and get 100% charge for 340 miles. Then let the smoke clear and be on your way.

OHHHHH, yahhh...

Now thats thinking. If or should say probably when it all becomes feasible and affordable.

But I don't think we can afford to subsidize even more

if you are worried about the cost of a filter and oil, then you better search pricing for EVs. Oil and filters are cheap. Easy to change. Unless I suppose you have to pay people to do it. I always forget that much of america does nothing much on their own anymore.

Thats fine in the video. Especially since they didn't have to put the credit card in and pay for the swap.

But I heard the other thing. ALWAYS and forever free charges at Tesla station. I doubt the heck out of that but it could be a partial selling point that got my attention.

Now if we get one capable of pulling weight with say a 400 mile range at an affordable price... of course our last 2 vehicles were under 30K used

Charges at the Tesla superchargers are not free. But they are not very expensive. Lots cheaper than gasoline.

This is the rub with me. Pretty much monopolies geographically speaking. Regulated but still not an open market. At least with the current distribution system.

Jell0s babe fills her car with juice.

I don't see that Trump had a dramatic impact on oil prices excluding lockdowns.


There's nothing wrong with having choices and different solutions. I'd agree that the government shouldn't be picking winners and losers as that is job of the free market.

I can see at least one enormous problem with that theory. I'm not sure I want my high quality OEM battery replaced with a who-knows-where-it-came-from low-bid chinkapoo special every time I take a trip.

Another problem, while I'm at it. I was reading the other day that a root cause of many of the utility scale LiOn battery fires in Korea is degradation resulting from cycling those babies all the way between 0 and 100% charge daily. Even if they give you a quality made battery, you have no idea how it has been cycled until you come out of Starbucks to watch your car burn to the ground.

Constantly swapping out the most critical part of my $80K Tesla? No thank you.

Gets a bit cold here sometimes doing a couple digits into the negative zone. Looking at Lithium batteries for our travel trailer and the pluses are extended and level power delivery and the number of cycles they can endure. Negative, and a big one for us is, will not take a charge below 32 degrees F. Sounds like we'd need a heated battery box from about mid Oct to mid-April here.

Technology will have to come a long way before I'd ever consider a battery powered rig. My real fear though is that municipal/urban politicians will mandate their use statewide and it's 130 miles one way to the nearest Walmart or McDonalds. I'm becoming more convinced each day that I've lived through the best of times.

Won’t increased EV usage lessen the demand for oil?

It should actually lower fuel prices...

Though it may cause coal usage, and therefor coal prices, to rise!

The irony.

I'd have to look this up, but I'd bet that jet fuel and diesel make up a larger share of petroleum use than gasoline. And don't forget the plastics industry. I doubt increasing the numbers of electric cars will have a huge effect on crude oil prices or demand.

I'm pretty sure transportation demand is a huge percentage of petroleum production. I had a college prof who argued that oil and gas were too valuable to be used for transportation because things like fertilizer, pharmaceuticals, and clothing were better uses.

Fire it up!

He said free. and always will be. Guess I have to listen again.

Not that I have a use for it unless they come in 1 ton trucks affordable at some point.

Interesting article on EV ranges.

https://www.torquenews.com/1083/5-reasons-ev-road-trip-range-60-or-less-maximum-range-possible

He was just adjusting the price of Tesla stock with that comment.
Being true for just a short time is better than it being a complete 'alternative fact' 😉

Tesla charging is free? Then why is this on their web site:

The following payment methods are supported:
American Express
Discover
JCB
MasterCard
Visa
Diners Card

What!!! No more bit or dogecoin?

Dumb question, but what will charging your car every night do to your electric bill? My furnace was broken for 2 weeks, so I was running space heaters. My next electric bill doubled, and it was only for half a month of extra use. I am also skeptical that the power company won't raise rates with all the increased demand.

Electric cars are fast off the line, and probably fun to drive. If that's the reason to buy one, then knock yourself out. If youre buying one thinking you're saving money, then I'm skeptical.

If you’re just comparing “fuel cost” much of it depends on your location and electric supplier. If your utility has “off peak metering”, charging the car at night is downright cheap.

My SIL has one in Wisconsin, and his “fuel” bill is about 1/3rd of what it cost to drive his Subaru.

For comparison, those space heaters typically are about 12 amps. Just spit balling, you could probably charge an EV about 150 miles on the same draw in a 24 hr period.

Brother has had Tesla for over a year. He says that charging the Tesla is way cheaper than buying gas. Plus, no spark plugs to change. No oil changes, and no radiator to blow up. There is no radiator.

If brother's battery blows up next week, he will despise the Tesla, as most of y'all do. But so far so good.

Just don’t see that happening. A company couldn’t make any return on its investment doing this. Spend maybe $10,000 per battery and if they charged enough to make a profit it would cost the EV owner way more than using gasoline. They would need 1,000’s of batteries, storage facilities, machinery to change them out, etc etc
When our interstates contain charging grids that will charge EV’s as they are driven is when EV’s become more common than ICE vehicles.

He says you can spend $20k for the solar system with batteries. At $4/gal, that's 5000 gal. If you're car gets 25 mpg, that's 125k miles. If it get 30 mpg, that's 150k.

At the time that video was made it was free to the first buyer for the life of any new Tesla. They stopped doing that some years ago so cars purchased after that have to pay.

They still don't have quick change battery stations.

And there won’t be any battery swap for Teslas for the foreseeable future. The battery packs are a structural component of the cars.

On the other hand, in Taiwan, there are now more battery swap stations for electric scooters than gas stations. Those batteries are light enough in weight even a small person can handle them.

IF that solar system ONLY EVER produces electricity for the car, and never for the house at all.

There's a problem when it takes longer to charge a car to go a certain distance than it takes to drive it.

Yeah, I think Will said he was air-conditioning his shop with that system while keeping his Tesla charged.

Permanently installed solar systems also add value to homes.
This seldom seems to be taken into consideration with these calculations.

The young guy, Will Prowse that produces these Solar related YouTube videos is pretty solid. I think his information is fairly accurate.

Now now don’t go exaggerating like that. Most solar is leased which is a detriment to getting a house loan which is proven. Plus also read where only a few states have proven house value increases due to solar.
Stating as fact solar will increase home value and save money is a government backed farce. Oh and that 30% tax credit for solar goes bye bye this year. So the system price just increased.

1. Buyers cannot qualify for a solar lease because the credit score requirement is too high?

While it is true that some leases do require credit score requirements, many of these scores do not differ from the same requirement that the buyer will need to qualify for a home loan. Typically if they can qualify for a home loan, they can qualify for a lease. If you are worried that a potential buyer cannot qualify for the lease, wouldn’t you also be worried that they couldn’t qualify to buy your house also?

2. Buyers will not want to take over my lease payment of $XXX?

I have a hard time understanding this argument. If your electric bill was $400 a month before solar and after installing a solar leased system the electric bill is only $200 a month with a $100 a month lease payment, who would not want to save an additional $100 each month?  Who doesn’t like to save money? Better yet, look at a solar lease as an alternative to the utility company. With a solar lease, you agree to buy electricity at a set price, often substantially cheaper than the utility rates. You have to buy electricity…why not buy it at a cheaper rate? Why pay the utility company $0.28 a kilowatt when you can buy it from the solar leasing company at a cost of only $0.10 for example?

3. Solar leases do not add value to my property?

While it is true that someone that owns their solar system will benefit in an increase in value in their property, homes with a solar lease tend to sell faster than the average home in Phoenix.  While not a tangible benefit, the beneficial value of a solar lease in Phoenix is less sales time.  Recent sales statistics show that homes with a solar lease sell slightly faster than homes with a solar owned system and 10 to 24 percent faster than the average home in the Phoenix area.  In some cases, I have seen an increase in value on an appraisal because of the solar lease.  While most appraisers will not count solar leased equipment as a fixture on the property, I have seen examples in the last year where they do add anywhere from a $1,500 to $3,000 in additional monetary value on some of those appraisals.

4. It is harder to sell a home with a solar lease than without one?

Depends. If you hire a real estate agent that does not understand the benefits or lacks the experience in selling a home with a solar lease, you will end up selling your home for less and over a longer period of time. The key to selling your home for top dollar is to hire someone, like the Solar Home Broker, that understands the benefits, can educate potential home buyers and buyer’s agents, and has the marketing strategies specifically designed for solar homes. If it is done right, the home can sell for the same amount of time (or less) without the hassle or complications that many unexperienced agents grumble about.

LINK

I think Tesla's warranty on the battery is 10 years. Prius batteries last longer than 10 years. I recently read a story about a guy with a Tesla he bought back in 2015 and he went something like 300,000 miles. Non issue. You run a gasoline that long you would have to rebuild the engine. Batteries are $3000-4000 dollars for replacements from what I read. About the same for a complete engine rebuild. There are now start up companies rebuilding the batteries.

Laughing as here again you use a blanket statement. Arizona may be higher in electric rates and have more benefits for solar. But answer this why would I pay for a solar lease to get 10 cents per kw electricity when here my power company sells it for 10.4 cents per kw? Yes in Nebraska which is a public power state except for Lincoln and Omaha. Awful lot of hassle for less than 1/2 cent per kw.

According to folks that know…..our current electric grid can’t handle the required usage necessary! The ‘source’ next statement was that politicians who don’t know their asses from a hole in the ground are conning the ignorant public concerning EV!

Hasbeen [/quote]

I think Tesla's warranty on the battery is 10 years. Prius batteries last longer than 10 years. I recently read a story about a guy with a Tesla he bought back in 2015 and he went something like 300,000 miles. Non issue. You run a gasoline that long you would have to rebuild the engine. Batteries are $3000-4000 dollars for replacements from what I read. About the same for a complete engine rebuild. There are now start up companies rebuilding the batteries.
[/quote]

Answer
The price will depend on the labor and parts required, but the most basic Tesla battery replacement usually costs between $13,000 and $14,000. Before paying for the repairs out of pocket, it’s worth checking to see if you have a warranty or insurance coverage to help with the cost.
Battery replacement can cost up to $20,000 for the Model S, though it’s unlikely that you’ll need to pay that much. Here’s a breakdown of the costs for a typical battery replacement:
$12,000 to $15,000 for the battery itself
$20 to $200 for other replacement parts, like connectors and wiring
$175 per hour for labor—battery replacement can take anywhere from three to 13 hours
Potential additional labor costs if the repairs are complicated or there are any issues with the replacement

It's ALL about 'control'....

Your the one that brought up the leased systems.

I have no interest in leasing solar at all, I actually know it's a poor idea for many reasons that haven't come to light here..

This discussion has been about buying and building your own system since the first post and you've had nothing to add to it.

I buy my own panel's, inverter's and batteries and have been doing so for years for my own reasons.
Just though I could offer the OP some information on the data he requested.

All the numbers and savings are quite different when you have the knowledge and capabilities of building and installing your own system which the OP stated he did have and was capable of.

None of your tidbits of negative BS have been relevant to this conversation in any form.

I just did some math ..off the 1st page....140kw =170 miles at the local KW price of .22 vs 3.75 gas a gallon = 22 buck to fill and go in the subrau vs 31 bucks in my electric car ...with the world's longest exhaust pipe..rite to the coal fired power plant....hummmmm, go Brandon !

Says the guy who took the OP question about a solar charger for his Tesla at home and took it to super chargers which aren’t for home use to solar arrays add to your house value no matter where you live. The only BS being thrown out is by you, which being in the industry gives you financial incentive to spread BS. Which you do well.

A company in Michigan has just tested a newer cheaper longer range battery in a Tesla model S. It got 752 miles before it needed charging. Cost is going down, range is going up. Northwestern University also tested a new type of battery that is also cheaper and can be charged in 5 minutes.

https://www.wxyz.com/news/tesla-goes-752-miles-on-prototype-battery-from-michigan-company-our-next-energy#:~:text=%28WXYZ%29%20%E2%80%94%20A%20Michigan%20battery%20technology%20company%20said,December%20with%20an%20average%20speed%20of%2055%20mph.

Interesting article. When I can get at 600-700 miles out of a charge is when I will seriously look at an EV.


Tesla goes 752 miles on prototype battery from Michigan company Our Next Energy

Our Next Energy, Inc. (ONE), a Michigan battery technology company, has demonstrated a proof-of-concept battery that powered an electric vehicle 752 miles without recharging. The vehicle completed a road test across Michigan in late December with an average speed of 55 mph. For more, go to one.ai/range
Posted at 9:25 AM, Jan 05, 2022 and last updated 6:25 AM, Jan 05, 2022
(WXYZ) — A Michigan battery technology company said it has tested a concept battery that took an electric vehicle 752 miles without recharging.

Our Next Energy, Inc. (ONE), based in Novi, said the vehicle completed a road test across Michigan in late December with an average speed of 55 mph.

The range is about double the average electric vehicle battery range on current models available.

According to ONE, they modified a Tesla Model S with the battery.

The company said the results were validated by a third party using a dynamometer where the test vehicle went 882 miles at 55 mph.

"We want to accelerate the adoption of electric vehicles by eliminating range anxiety, which holds back most consumers today," ONE Founder and CEO Mujeeb Ijaz said in a release. "We are now focused on evolving this proof-of-concept battery into a new product called Gemini™, which will enable long-distance trips on a single charge while improving cost and safety using sustainable materials."

Currently, EVs are relying on fast-charge stations like Tesla superchargers and others across the country when going on long road trips.

According to Car & Driver, the project didn't alter anything involving the Model S's efficiency and only used a battery with a higher capacity.

ONE said it plans to begin production of its first product, Aries, in late 2022 and a production prototype of its batery, Gemini, in 2023.

Here comes the next 5 pages filled with the Fires relentless decrepit old farts with nothing better to do claiming they have to drive 950 miles, up hill, in sub-zero conditions, towing a 25,000 pound trailer everyday of their lives so all EV's suck and will never compare to their Buick.

Says the still pooping yellow youngster whose total life experiences have not yet exceeded building a LEGO set.

oh don't forget that lithium is a mined commodity whose raw material price will fluctuate according to the laws of supply and demand.... I think that most of the worlds present lithium comes from no more than six mine areas. If you want to get a feel for the fact on that go read the annu report for the FMC spin out firm Livent (sp?)