So, if it is documented that Russia did slaughter thousands upon thousands of civilians, rape, pillage and plundered, are you Russia fan boys ok with that because "muh NWO cabal pedis?"

Because our .gov is at least as corrupt.

If they people of Ukraine "deserve" atrocities because of their corrupt government, do we?

Really? None of you pro Russia guys want to go on record?

War Crimes as defined by whom?

Are you using a legal definition or an emotional one?

And for the record I’m not pro Russia. I’m anti Zalensky.

Well, rape, killing civilians, you know, that kinda thing. Like the old man the Russian tank crew blasted in the street with their main gun.

Targeting women and children is a war crime. Good Greif

What about the conflict within Ukraine for the last 8 years. Are we looking at “war crimes”committed during that time frame? By both combatants or only one?

I’ll go on record and say that I’m not okay with war crimes committed by either faction in this conflict.

Those women and children played stupid games so they won stupid prizes.

Or maybe they Fu cked around and found out.

Putin is STRONK.

That's a good signature line you have NH K9

I agree with your post too.

Dont be coy. You are using a term. Define it.

If grandma has an ak, is engaged in combat and is taken out is that a war crime?

Not debating the morality. You opened the can of worms. Define your position. Preferable without using a tampon to draw stick figures

Targeting women and children is easy you just don't lead em so much.

Selective outrage is a popular thing.

You are supportive of a thug dictator that has stolen billions from his people and is invading another country. It shouldn't surprise me that shooting people with their hands tied behind there back would be ok to you.

Me, I only shot people fighting me.

But, you do you tough guy

You’re a fûcking bleeding female who can only make her arguments by misrepresenting them that provide a differing perspective.

You have time and again proven yourself incapable of stepping g back and explaining your position aside from RUSSIA BAD. Giving no context. When that fails you go full retard emotional talking points.

I seriously doubt any Ukrainian will be charged with a “war crime”. I think it is slightly possible a Russian commander of troops could be accused and tried for war crimes. I guarantee you Putin will not face any form of tribunal or trial for war crimes.

Hmm. D.C. politicians steal TRILLIONS from their people. Invade other countries and murders folks (Hilliary just kills them here)...

Ask a German woman about "Frau Komm".

To answer your last question, yes, our country as a whole deserves whatever happens to us. We’ve sat by comfortably and allowed it to happen so why wouldn’t we?

There are plenty of idiots on this forum who think Putin was/is their friend who care about them. I admit, it was entertaining watching Antifa fight Right Wingers in was it Washington, Oregon, California? That was inspired by Russian trolls from the net.

Your mommy change your diaper today Maser.

You are a fugging retard.

Consistently.

You might want to try this again.

And you're a [bleep] pussy that would surrender.

GFY

I'm still waiting on one of you guys to take Putin's cock out of your mouth long enough to explain when, in all of history, have the ones trying to shut down information have ever been the "good" guys.

Because shutting off the internet is some Bond villain BS.

And, on that, we can all agree.

Pictures can be taken out of context. Sometimes the poster presents them and allows folks to make an assumption, not necessarily lying , but definitely not clarifying either.
LMAO

War crimes are exactly that regardless of offender nationality.

The problem with this one is the unreliable information that exists, regardless of perspective.

After the nonstop barrage of BS, it's going to take some honest reporting from our hometown boys before I can believe the international cucks.

We're in a game of cry wolf, CGI and fake BS. It's too bad because there's nobody here that can tell us the honest truth.....even if they know it.

You accuse someone of being a tough guy then brag about only shooting those that fight you. You could do yourself a favor and keep a muzzle on that. Most with honor have and do.

In their defense I think the concept of Putin admiration came from the man that used to like having his face rubbed regularly with something that turned his skin orange. From what I recall he had strange admiration for tyrants.

My bad, I didn't realize you were Bill Goat Gruff......

In what Court would these allegations be decided? Could the same charges be leveled against America for events in Iraq one Afghanistan? Generally , it’s the winners that make these sort of distinctions and have the ability to define the terms and prosecute.

I'm surprised you could come up with that on your own. Did you get that talking point from your liberal masters?

Do not worry, Stalin alone had more killed then all American conflicts from 1945 till now. The Russians have way more innocent blood on their hands, fück them.

Lolol

With that attitude, I’m surprised (by your own admission) you drove through a war zone everyday to get to work but didn’t kit up and start dropping mofos. What with you being a white hat badass combat vet and all.

See there. Try to give you some good solid advice but no use. You're a braggart and I wouldn't trust you with my back anywhere. You don't take long to trash your own thread.

War crimes are decided by the victor. Every ww2, korea, vietnam..........vet I know says there was a lot of [bleep] that went on

I'm sure this will not be a popular opinion, but the only war crime that matters to me is not being committed to a complete and devastating victory.

War should be a last resort, and when you add in "rules" like war crimes, you make it so the entire process is somewhat sanitized (it's still horrific, but in a way a civilized version of horrific).

When you add in things like prohibitions on war crimes, you end up never really fighting it out to the end and the wars will just keep reoccurring. No holds barred. And then the next time someone decides they want to play the game, they'll find that the rules (the ones that allow the aggressor to throw in the white flag when it's not going his way) no longer exist and they will likely lose everything if they start the war.

Me too and I'll add all of the innocent women and children killed by war criminals Obama and Biden with indiscriminate killer drones.

the mistake here is believing that they dont go on every day in every conflict, and pretending that one side's war crimes are any worse than someone elses

What cock is sweeter Putin's or Zelenskiy NAZI Azov cock? Or Soros' global homo cock?

Asking for my virtue signaling friend

After the past several years believing the reports "as delivered" is a bit problematic (boy who cried wolf)..

Many reports suggest that Zelenky's troops are Killing with Friendly fire" and in general using tactics emplyed by the Palistinians (troops in school buses, Missile battrie in residential areas/School grounds)..
The reliability of the information being delivered to the American Public right now is chit. Relibility of information is a major factor when making strategic and tactical decisions. Whose report are you basing decisions on?

This thread means several more penis shaped belt notches, being as war makes many of you think about homosexual sex.

I'm not pro-Russian....but I am of the opinion after living 82 years that the US Gov't. is just as corrupt if not moreso than many other countries!!

So the same media that's been openly lying to us about everything since about 2012 suddenly feels duty-bound to report the truth of what's happening in Ukraine? Yeah, riiiiight.


Besides, it's only a war crime if you lose and a third-party decides to pursue it.

Yup. Remember the pics of the old Syrian woman holding a couple of live rifle rounds she claimed was shot into her mud hut? Remember the dated pics of Trayvon Martin? Remember the staged pic of all the "dead" Syrians that were supposedly gassed?

I can't believe how many stupid people live among us.

It would be a shame if no one were to acknowledge this post.

War crimes maybe but Genghis Khan knew how to win wars, and in the end, that's what counts, winning is everything.
No holds barred or don't play,
Fug-a-buncha playing fair, that is for losers.

I think you make a good point and one that is often overlooked….and that’s the problem running around pointing your finger at the “war crimes” of other’s. When you find yourself pointing your war crime finger at another military superpower you open yourself up to having those same accusatory war crime fingers pointed back at you along with the “legitimacy” and the various “abilities” in which they have to obtain their “evidence”. After 20 years of fighting a bunch of 3rd world goatfuckers we should focus on SELLING our hardware to the Ukrainians so they can kill the invaders…

War crimes and crimes like rape or the senseless murder of young children and the elderly or the disabled, etc happen in every war. It’s the absolute worst and most evil darkness that can NEVER be condoned or justified. Those crimes unfortunately happen in every war by every side. The difference is the values and ethos instilled in the ranks by their commanders and I don’t think Russia cares much about ethics, morals, right or wrong. I saw some pretty brutal footage of bound Russian soldiers being shot by their Ukrainian captors. While that footage might show crimes on tape I draw a major distinction between that and the rape of civilians. One might be a “war crime” and the other most definitely is. Either way it’s a terribly evil person that would brutally rape and murder people that are scared and helpless but war crimes are sorted out after the winner is declared because the Victor writes the story.

Is it also a War Crime for ones own Military to use it citizens as Human Shields?

I keep seeing these call-out threads for those "pro Russia". However, I have yet to see anyone's posts have that language. Is the Ukrainian government corrupt? You bet. Do the Ukrainian people have the right to defend themselves against Russian invaders? Of course they do. Should the US help with military hardware and humanitarian assistance? I believe it's our duty. But, some may disagree about that. Is that what makes them pro-Russia?

Lots of posters here have been posting pro Russian stuff.

This, from the Ukraine propoganda thread:



Jag literally says that Putin is the world's savior.

And, the fact that those people quite often associate supporting the Ukrainian people's ability to fight an invading army with "you support the NWO and believe everything the MSM says" makes it pretty obvious those people literally are ok with little girls being raped or all the men in a city being executed as the Russians withdraws.

Russia is likely going Russian shiit. All the evidence points to them looting and pillaging. That makes the people here who were spouting literal Russian propaganda talking points like "they're loved by the Ukrainian people, Ukrainians will welcome liberation" 100% wrong.

Everything we are told about Russia, Ukraine, NATO, Poland, Natural Gas, Oil, Rubles, comes to us via our Government and our Media. Which are one in the same.

Nuff said.

The Mexican government does 10,000X worse every day and has for decades.

The only reason anybody cares about Ukraine is because the news outlets are telling them to.

I don’t give one flying fugk about anything Russians do to Ukrainians nor do I give one flying fugk what any Ukrainian does to a Russian.

Actually, Russia has been being the World's premier azzhole for over 100 years. They thought that this would go the same as other incursions into neighboring territory in recent years.

They were wrong.

Now, they're just behaving the way they always have. It wouldn't matter if Ukraine was pure as the fresh driven snow, they'd still be doing Russian stuff, using Russian tactics, and generally sucking at life in general.

Fuuck Putin and fuuck Russia

Mexico does 10,000 times worse and we don't invade.

😉

But, c'mon you do have to laugh at Germany decommissioning nuke plants and counting on Russian gas for power.

You know how most people's you meet seem retarded? World leaders are like that, they're just retarded and skimming billions.

It’s tough to argue that one. And most of what we can see for ourselves objectively suggest that it’s been the US government/propaganda wing with an axe to grind towards Russia. Despite Ukraine literally bribing Joe Biden via his son while VP and the Democrats turning it around to impeach Trump a second time!

Everything from Hunters laptop, to hookers pissing on Obamas bed, to Putin stealing the election for Trump it’s always the Russians! That Coupled with our CIA arming and training Ukraine for years it’s been the US provoking much of this whole thing always looking for the next fight to drag us into.

Plus 1.

As does our number one trading partner China.

Still blows me away that some of you dumbasses still blindly follow what you are being told to believe over there. Ukraine isnt good, russia isnt good. Let them kick eachothers ass. Who gives a fugg

This

Well stated Remsen.

Doesn’t change the fact that your opinions on today’s conflict is based solely on information presented to you by our Government and our Media, both of which are totally Agenda Driven.

Hate Russia all you want, hate Putin all you want, he’ll hate Ukraine if you wish, just be aware that our Government and our State Sponsored Media is no different the Russia when it comes to Propaganda, maybe even worse.

At least Russian Propaganda is designed to benefit Mother Russia, our Ministry of Propaganda on the other hand is designed to destroy America and our way of life.

This X2.

I always figured war crimes to be what happens behind the front line.

If Russia installed Illegal Bioweapons labs in Mexico, or Cuba, would we invade?

You mean like Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Osaka, Dresden, Berlin, Darmstadt, Kassel City, Hanoi, Laos, the list goes on and on.

Win the war, no crimes.

There be them Damn facts again.

War crimes trials are how the victors continue to exact revenge on their enemies after they've surrendered.

I'm not ok with war. War is a crime. But when war comes to you, do it mercilessly and with out remorse.

War is when your government tells you who to kill and fight. Rebellion is when you decide for your self.

No Ukrainian ever harmed me in any way I know of and probably no Russian I can think of right now. Yet as well, neither of them ever did any thing FOR ME either. I don't owe either of them a thing.

Now Joe Biden, Nancy Pelosi, AOC and most all of the rest of those idiot Democrats are another story. They are my most immediate threat to me and my family RIGHT NOW. They have robbed me, stolen from me, given away my country. They are my 1st enemy. George Bush, Nixon, most of the Republican party are only less so right now due to some of the wounds beginning to scab over a little and new ones from someone else that are fresh and hurt more at the time. I'm no friend of Republicans beyond voting for Donald J Trump. If DJT gets back in office and wants to line up the RINOs against the same wall with the Democrats, I'm ok with that.

Until you have been there you don't know what you or anybody with you will do. But your training kicks in and the rest is history.

Yup, only thing different is , the OP , a Minnesota cuck who worships at the feet of Ilhan Omar... was told by The View to hate a Foreign country at war with another

Waco, Ruby Ridge ...

Well said, and I agree completely....

One man's war crime is another man's tactical victory.

Clausewitz said that war is politics by other means. War is a lot of things but just like politics, propaganda and disinformation is an integral part of it.

Both sides are well known for their savagery and ruthlessness in war and NEITHER side can be trusted to tell you the truth about anything. You are more likely to get the direct opposite of the truth...very much like our MSM.

Why do you think Zelensky is publicizing "war crimes" whether they happen or not? It doesn't take a genius to figure out why and you would have to be a real dumb (bleep) to believe anything that comes from the media.

Those in charge in DC love nothing more than to see us all ripping into each other over this stupid stuff none of us have any control over.

COVID & Ukraine are both being used as a psych op to divide us and distract from our central problem; DC & the enormous bureaucratic monster that is consuming our freedoms and now those of other peoples as well.

I’m not in favor of either side in this conflict, but feel for the “little people” as much as everyone here. Thing is they’re in this predicament due to OUR GOVT meddling in their affairs for the purpose of keeping things in a state of perpetual chaos abroad to benefit the military industrial complex and the money launderers who enable them.

We should all try to find the areas we agree on and go from there. Seems we should all be able to agree our govt is causing huge problems not only for us but for peoples all over the world.

No.

For no particular reason I support Ukraine and not Russia, but JackRyan the sentiments expressed in your post are hard to argue with...... well said.

Would we be justified in invading? Clearly.

Would we in fact invade? Depends whether the deep state felt threatened by it. Nothing more, nothing less.

Will killing more women and children end it quickly so they pussies like you will quit bleating about it 24/7? If so, I’m in favor of it.

Any time you want to compare DD214's, I'm your huckleberry sport.

😉

Will it show your time in the Azov brigade killing “orcs”?

😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂

What handle did Joebob used to post under? Boss lady?

Meh…your 92G MOS won’t impress me much. Anyway, you’re still a pussy. STFU about something happening half a world away that is none of our business.

Found some more evidence of WAHRR CRAMESS!!

🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂

How about you:



And, I'm too lazy to Google. WTF is 92g? (I was 0352)

I have read that the Ukrainian forces are finding dead civilians with their hands tied behind their backs as they follow the beat up Russian retrograde movement.

This sounds like a situation that should be investigated as a war crime by a third party, like the Red Cross. Atrocities are generally committed by poorly trained, poorly led, troops who got out of control or by well trained troops who were sent to kill civilians.

It seems as though the Russians expected to be welcomed as liberators and found out that they weren't welcome, not too much different from what the Americans faced in Iraq in 2003.

For me the basic issue is who was the aggressor. The Russians invaded Ukraine and the Ukrainians are fighting back better than the Russians expected. It appears that the Russians never heard that even the best war plans don’t survive first contact with the enemy.

Oh, now I know why you whine incessantly like a bitch instead of going to Ukraine. Their crayons taste terrible there.

Should we talk about the 2 provinces that voted to leave Ukraine and have been in a shooting war with Ukraine for more than a news cycle, and the Ukrainian tactics there? Or is that poor form?

I told you mine.

What was your MOS?

Do the 2 provinces have the right to secede under Ukrainian law?

In Civil War the best led, best equiped, side usually comes out victorious.

EDIT: 92G is a food service specialist, IOW a necessary REMF. My primary MOS was 11O basic and advanced courses, secondary MOS 13O basic course via correspondence, and an 89E certificate, started but didn't complete the basic course via correspondence.

It wasn’t boss lady. Seems I remember him under a different handle.

Joebob- are you the lawyer from CA?


Btw, you were right when Russia invaded Crimea in 2014.

Ah, so we don't respect freedom fighters unless they are granted that right under whatever country they happen to be in.

More CGI fake video. Putin Pufters are right, he is STRONK.

Putin didn't get his dick slapped for Crimea. Nobody gave a shiit.
He fuucked around in Georgia for years
He invented a bunch of Nazis for Donetsk

Here we are.

I'm sure he's sitting in his bunker wondering where he crossed the line into having his dick slapped by literally everyone......

The thought makes me happy.

No, I’m not from California.

13A

Could be that's one reason Russia got into this to support those two provinces who have been under Ukraine siege since 2014. Kinda like the US supporting South Vietnam against North Vietnam aggression.

I'll assert that Ukraine has committed acts of war crimes against the civilians of the two provinces during that 2014-now period.

I'll type louder.

Exactly.

And none of these Uketard virtue signalers gave one hot schit until the media told them too.

JFC ! not another one of those schmucks ,,, FFS !

...

Rape and sexual assault are war crimes.

The Guardian has a recent article on what’s been happening with the Russians withdrawing from specific areas.

Some gave a hot scchitt having seen the first invasion and annexation of Georgia then a repeat with The Crimea and now The Ukraine.

Maybe. But off point, lol. I was speaking to the acts of Ukraine vs the 2 breakaway provinces. Care to post on that?

Ain’t no maybe about it and it’s directly on point.

Bullshit.

But I expected nothing less.

Nobody gave a flying fûck what the NWO installed Zalensky was doing to the folks in those provinces. Now you are all hallering from your keyboards about orcs and freedom.

I always imagined Tolkien meant the orcs to be inners.

Talk about bullscchitt.

Um, you don't have any idea what other members thoughts of the stuff going on over there.

Agreed. Nice website btw.

Good for you.

Exactly why should I care and who’s son are you going to send to fight and die about it ? Who decided we (USA) are responsible for policing the world. I have zero lust for American empire and think the Russians and Ukrainians can work it out without our intervention. If we’d stayed out of the the Ukraine and disbanded NATO at the end of the Cold War there very likely wouldn’t be a Russian Ukrainian war.

Right. There’d be no war .

All former Soviet satellites would be back under the The Big Hammer and Sickle flag Just like what has happened with Georgia, the Crimea and now being attempted in the Ukraine.

South Vietnam was a sovereign nation, the 2 provinces of Ukraine aren't soveriegn nations, so that seems like a pretty significant difference, at least to me.

It is possible, maybe even likely, that the war crimes that you suggest Ukraine has committed against their own citizens in those 2 provinces is Russian disinformation. I don't trust politicians in general and I don't trust any Russians, as the Russians aren't and never have been our friends.

If the 2 provinces didn't have the right to secede under Ukrainian law, the Ukrainian government would seem to have a legal right and obligation to put down a rebelian within its borders. The whole sovereign nation thing.

Secession is a tricky thing. You can declare yourself to be independent, but you may have to fight for that independence and once you start fighting the outcome can be a bloody and uncertain thing.

Sound wisdom.

We were never going to stay out of Ukraine's business. There was too much money to be made and laundered there by the scum in DC. Plus, where better for the MIC to start another war than on paranoid Putin's front porch? Win-win.

And I agree. NATO should have been gone long ago. .

Zelenskyy still street fighting with an AK in hand?
Who believes anything being reported?

The average Ukrainian citizen is nothing but a pawn in a much larger game. As pawns tend to be, they are being sacrificed. I seriously can’t believe so many people are buying the media narrative without question, which shouldn’t be so hard to believe after watching so many supposedly rational conservatives buy the fake pandemic narrative.

Weeks leading up to the invasion we were celebrating the training and arming of Ukrainian citizens - "we will fight them in the streets". It was a noble and just action advertised for ALL the world to see.

Now they are showing up dead.

Big surprise....

second that.....who in their right mind believes a [bleep] thing the media says or what you see on Twitter, Facebook, tictoc ect or any other outlet for that matter, you were lied to for 2 years about COVID, you really think what your seeing if factual??? The first thing lost in the fog of war is the truth for crying out loud. Common sense people.

Makes you homesick don’t it ?

Why do so many jump to the conclusion that pro-Ukraine people want to send our troops over there? I haven't seen anyone here say that. All I've read is support for arming them so that they can do their own fighting.

I’m at home. I doubt it was ever any better looking back. We’ve been lied too since the beginning of time. It’s just time that more people start recognizing it and start questioning the narrative.

30 trillion in debt, the USD at risk of losing its standing as reserve currency, hyperinflation, supply chain breaking down, fuel prices up 150%, interest rates rising…..
yeah, you’re right, let’s spend hard working American family’s tax dollars on arming Ukraine. Makes TOTAL sense. LMAO.

Same reason many think that those who don’t consider Putin a maniacal lunatic are “pro-Putin”.

Because we, like the media that feeds us and the public school system that “educated” us, don’t do nuance… much less logic… anymore. We take sides and then form allegiances as if everything were local sports or something.

And it serves our ruling elites who can do what they want while we argue about stuff over which we have ZERO control.

Fair point.

But they weren't emoting all over the place posting their dd214's etc and urging more billions to Ukraine to fund it.

If I'm wrong, please post the relevant threads.

Shhhh, they're on a roll.

Support for arming them being MORE U.S. tax dollars spent supporting an installed NWO puppet.

I say let them fight it out.

:gasp:

Well, I can only get through to rt.com by way of VPN or TOR, as it is being blocked by the US gov't and its proxies. if you cared about consistency, that would make US gov't and our ruling class the bad guys.

1. Stalin was georgian, not russian.

2. Jew were hugely over-represented in all the bolshevik factions and the secret police. Matter of fact, Solzhenitsyn wrote something to the effect, "The Russian evolution was not Russian."

stolen from meme thread

I don’t recall anyone here saying different.

Why do you think that the U.S. or NATO is going to become actively engaged in combat in Ukraine?

If Russia attacks any of the NATO members, the U.S. will surely become involved, so it would seem to be in Russia's best interest not to attack a NATO member country if for no other reason that it the Russian Army has got its ass handed to it by Ukraine, how much worse would they do if they fought a competent and coordinated combined air, land, and sea opponent.

In my opinion NATO has been the driving force for peace in Europe for the 73 years since it was established on 04/04/49.

Agree.

In my opinion NATO’s usefulness ran it’s course. It’s been usurped by the NWO and has been ridiculously underfunded by the other members. It’s been nothing more than a means to bleed America dry and install corrupt regimes to launder money etc etc.

Entangling treaties of mutual defense will bring nothing less or more than WW3. Same as they did before.

Your bitch ass wanted Ukraine to take the Russian boot on their neck from day one.

Well zelenski admitted to placing weapons in residential areas, so he is just as guilty of war crimes and like was said earlier how about the previous internal conflicts was a time the Ukes committed war crimes.

Fight Russia on their turf:

VICTOR DAVIS HANSON: History should be our guide in Ukraine https://www.reviewjournal.com/opini...-should-be-our-guide-in-ukraine-2555455/

There are several historical referents we should keep in mind about the Ukraine war.

First, no-fly zones. Lots of Westerners are calling for NATO aircraft to establish a no-fly zone above Ukraine to stop Russian bombing of Ukrainian cities.

That is a terrible idea. Russian planes can still launch missiles from the nearby airspace of Russia and Belarus. No nation in history has declared a no-fly zone against an adversarial nuclear power.

No-fly zones are best known from the 12-year air block over Iraq in between the two Gulf wars. NATO also imposed a no-fly zone over Bosnia and Herzegovina in the 1990s and again over Libya in 2011. These efforts were aimed respectively at the bloody though small-time dictators Saddam Hussein, Slobodan Milosevic and Moammar Gadhafi. None had nuclear weapons.

Eventually the air patrols withered away. Often allies bickered about their relative contributions. Sometimes the zones failed to stop ongoing anarchy on the ground. Enemies often still used low-flying ground assault helicopters.

The United States never attempted a no-fly zone against either nuclear Russia or China during the Cold War — despite a long history of these countries supplying wartime enemies of ours. No nation wishes to risk armageddon over the skies of a third party.

Second, regime change. There has been a lot of wild talk — from Joe Biden and various U.S. senators on down — about removing or assassinating Russian President Vladimir Putin to achieve “regime change” in Russia.

Here too, the United States has a mixed record, at best — from the engineered ouster of Vietnam’s President Ngo Dinh Diem to Libyan leader Gadhafi. Efforts to kill Cuban President Fidel Castro boomeranged in ways that likely still remain classified.

Dozens of Cold War-era forced removals of hostile heads of state in Asia, Africa and Latin America often did not achieve objectives that were in long-term U.S. interests, much less did they achieve regional stability. Such coups and hit jobs did, however, tarnish America’s claim to the moral high ground.

In chicken-and-the-egg fashion, do odious dictators really hijack power from oppressed societies or are they simply emblematic of them? Before Putin, were there democratically elected czars, Soviet premiers or post-Cold War Russian strongmen? Once Western liberals talk sloppily about removing heads of states, such authoritarians naturally will do the same. Do we really want Putin threatening Western presidents, given the past propensity of his political enemies to disappear?

Third, nation building. Western powers can “nation build” abroad. But re-creating nations in our image requires terrible cost in blood and treasure. Even idealists are branded as “neocolonialists” and “imperialists.” Even the beneficiaries of liberal democracy still feel it was “imposed” and any gratitude or warm feeling for America is short-lived.

The American public, meanwhile, rails that the trillions of dollars spent abroad could be better used at home. Witness the recent failed 20-year mess in Afghanistan.

Fourth, moral hysteria. The United States does not have a good record of turning wars into moral crusades by branding our allies divine and our enemies satanic. America was wrong to have banned German language instruction during World War I. It should never have put Japanese legal residents and patriotic Japanese-Americans in detention camps during World War II.

For years, the United States has seemed unhinged as it caricatures Russians as subhuman thugs — from crudely stereotyped tattooed, shaved-headed villains in Hollywood movies to mythical bogeymen who supposedly engineered the Russian collusion hoax, the Russian Alfa Bank hoax and the Hunter Biden laptop Russian “disinformation” hoax.

Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has shown himself a gifted and courageous leader who, logically, we should support and supply. But he is not an archangel pitted against evil Russian 18-year-old conscripts or necessarily the moral superior to Russian pianists and tourists.

Millions of impoverished Russians had no say about Putin’s savage misadventure in Ukraine. That Ukraine is morally in the right and certainly deserves Western help does not mean that all Russians should be demonized or an often-corrupt Ukrainian government that just suspended its opposition parties should be deified.

Fifth, the Russian military abroad. The Russian army is historically unbeatable on its home soil. Charles XII of Sweden, Napoleon Bonaparte and Adolf Hitler all wrecked their once indomitable militaries once they crossed into Russia. But the expeditionary armies of a multi-ethnic, disparate Russia have never done well abroad in major foreign invasions against determined enemies.

Moscow faced a series of embarrassing and utter defeats in the Russo-Japanese war of 1904-1905.The czar’s 1914 invasion of German East Prussia ended in catastrophe. Russia invaded Poland and lost the Polish war of 1919-1921. Stalin’s attack on tiny Finland in 1939 soon turned into a bloody quagmire. The decadelong invasion and occupation of Afghanistan ended in defeat.

Given these past realities, Ukraine can defeat Putin’s expeditionary army if the United States and its NATO allies increase aid, do not embrace no-fly zones or other provocative trajectories to World War III, cease crazy talk of killing or removing Putin, stop whipping up hatred of all things Russian and remember that history was never on Putin’s side when he invaded Ukraine.

Victor Davis Hanson is a distinguished fellow of the Center for American Greatness and a classicist and historian at Stanford’s Hoover Institution. Contact him at [email protected].

If no-fly zones are a great thing, why didn't we impose one over North VietNam in the 1960s?

Thats what the refugees say Athe Nazi Azov is doing.

Does this mean Putin is justified?

Go Putin

It’s rather interesting, well it’s sad actually, that after all the lies, deceit and corruption we have witnessed over the past six years by our own Government and our Media that anyone would believe a single word either one of them said about Ukraine.

They lied for 4 years about Trump and Russia. They conspired to steal a Presidential election, Hey have lied about Everything COVID from day one, yet somehow this same Government and this same Media have now miraculously become tellers of the truth when it comes to Ukraine, the DC Establishments personal piggy bank.

So you believe that the Russians are telling the truth, the whole truth and noting but the truth?

Not me. I don't trust Russians and never will. No matter how bad our politicians might be, Russians are worse At least Khrushchev was honest about how Russians feel about Americans. I sincerely hope that the Russian standard of living is set back 30years and wonder why we haven't sent the ones who are here, legally and illegally, back to Russia.

I don't believe the words spoken by many politicians, but think that Marsha Blackburn and John Kennedy are close to honest as any that I have heard speak. JRB, Jr., is obviously mentally incompetent, KDH is too stupid to be POTUS, and NPP is as crooked as they come, so we need to keep this charlie foxtrot going until a republican is speaker of the house.

The first casualty of War is "Truth".

To debate what is "Truthfully" happening is a waste of time unless you have firsthand eyewitness knowledge.

+1

Never once did I say I believe that the Russians are telling the truth.

In fact I said just the opposite.

War Crimes? Oh I thought we were discussing Dresden and Tokyo... Never mind.

No sympathy for countries that start wars. When you throw the first punch you can't expect quarter when you're on the receiving end. Always kill the bad guy, always.

Exactly. The thing is, the Ukes are weaker so you help arm them because they'll wear down Russia more. Sending them arms now is way cheaper , in both money and bodies, than waiting several years when they're stronger and so is their ally, China.

So, you were good with any atrocity committed against American POWs in Iraq and Afghanistan and Vietnam for that matter?

This should get interesting

https://twitter.com/Miguel18011505/status/1510583834173382660?s=20&t=CWySt9EpnDsHW0Uq4AB2Sw

https://twitter.com/elisabethbraw/status/1500884452167278596?s=20&t=AckxUtg7GxdjmJH0mwtSVQ

The message that I had intended to articulate is that the Russians should expect no quarter from the Ukrainians, now that the Russians have been charged with shooting unarmed civiians. Civilians being shot down in the streets or killed and buried in mass graves has made the Russians look like they were trying to recreate the killings by the Nazi SS who perpetrated the Babi Yar massacre outside of Kyiv in 1941.

I was a soldier, so I knew that you could expect what you gave. American soldiers have committed their fair share of atrocities when they have gone to war. Most go unreported because every side wants to hold onto the high moral ground, but it does happen, you've probably heard of the My Lai Massacre. Colin Powell's political career hit its ceiling at Sec State because of his role in attempting to cover it up. Too bad, as I think that he would have been a better than average POTUS.

Good lord. Colon Powell should never have risen even as far as he did. He’d have been a Biden level disaster as POTUS

Apparently the Russians are leaving a trail of indiscriminate executions of Ukrainian citizens in their withdrawal from the Capitol of the Ukraine.

That is, if one can believe the various and many news reports.

Trying to prove a negative.

Nope, can’t believe a word they say.

I’m sure you do though.

https://media.gab.com/system/media_attachments/files/103/348/127/original/278d54d7c185e407.mp4

The Ukrainians have been executing fellow Ukrainians for the last 8 years.

Maybe where the photos came from

Doesn't that regularly happen during any Civil War?

How stupid would one need to be to believe any news from that part of the world? How stupid would one need to be to claim war crimes and atrocities were committed, based on said news?

Further, how stupid would one need to be to give any regard whatsoever to codified "war crimes"? To send your countrymen off to fight, while relying on the enemy to follow international law?

Scoring war is pretty simple: win, or lose. Style doesn't count.

I doubt that you’re sure of anything.

You just want to run your mouth and throw spitballs like a school kid is all.

Our government sure does follow due process and some even say that the Clintonistas have been killing folks for longer than 8 years .

But you can’t believe that, I know.

But the real question is,

How stupid would one need to be to believe any News period from our own MSM and our own Government.

Or from you.

Yes he is. Funny how a few of the dickheads in here refuse to see any of this. Ukraine is as bad if not worse than russia. Fugg them both

You spout off in here dozens of times a day at how much you want to be in zelenskis ass. Sign up and go fight your war if it means so much to you

You and your operator buddies should be able to run the “orcs” back to mother Russia in 2 days. Couple wyoarms rifles dropping ruskie generals from 1200yds with ease should go the trick.
LMAO

Wolverines!

Post the pic of your buddy with his Pants around his ankles Burns, it’s a classic. I know you’re thinking “which one”
LOL.

“Evidence of Russia’s war crimes are shocking, devastating and sickening “

Fox News

LMAO. Faux news… you go girl!

Who sad that ? Faux news geniuses and left wing racist and pathological liar Geraldo Rivera or Neo con war monger Carl Rove?

How many under age Ukrainian boys did Faux News regular guest and soothsayer, the closet pedo and global homo neocon war monger Ms Lindsay Graham, diddle when he made over a dozen trips to Ukraine since 2014?

But you boys just love you some Tucker!!! A National Treasure, he was lionized here just a short while ago.

Tuckerites and Putinistas. What a pair!

Go to Graham’s website and ask him.

why would I go on Lady G's website NAMBLALUVSAZOVNAZIS.COM?

Have a direct link?

“USA and Allies now vow to take action against Russia for the Atrocities they have committed “

WSJ

Lol!

Putin fire up the gas chambers yet? 6 gorillion in peril!!!

My son was in Bucha. He said it is pretty bad.

Oh boy, more useless sanctions. Why are some of you hell bent on ww3 over a complete and utterly corrupt ukraine

Well with all of your boots on the ground, multi year, multi lingua Talents concerning the former USSR,,was thinking maybe you could set the bastard straight on a few things.

Give him a call.

Deep fake videos are really getting sophisticated.

LOL

There you go again.

Idiot.

Oh My, a two-fer, the WSJ AND our Government in the same post, now we know it’s True.

The first casualty of war is truth....

But it is hilarious watching
Nazis good
No Nazis bad
Commies good
No commies bad......

NOTHING TO DO WITH (sic) American Soldiers. My point was and remains it was a policy decision to specifically target civilians in an attempt to demoralize the population, which is EXACTLY the same thing we are now saying the Russians are doing. Dresden was specifically selected as was Tokyo, with the latter being even more egregious as it was done with incendiaries, given the architectural makeup of jap civilian housing. Please note I did not mention Hiroshima OR Nagasaki, which of course was the right way to go because it's goal was to end the war and save AMERICAN lives.

What makes you think that these are fake videos. Just because of two of the bodies not visible on the satellite picture?

The similarity to Fug Stick in not only style, but values is AMAZING!

Again, what makes you think that this is also a fake video?

What makes you think it real?

Well, for starters, some of us know people over there.

The acute lack of responding to "my son was there" is a hint.

I didn't claim that it's real. I just want to know what makes somebody think it isn't.

For the record, I fully believe Russia is doing what they've always done.

Doesn't mean we should engage, it's Europe's fight. But fuuck Russia with an AIDS infected cactus.

Lol I love how those bodies are nice and evenly spaced out. JFC propaganda for retards.

Probably 98% Uke propaganda.

Bad move for the Russians to pull back and give the Ukes the opportunity. Of course the Ukes are going to try to make the Russians look as bad as possible.

Where's the blood ?

Europe can certainly provide something that's AIDS infected!

I was being sarcastic about some posters here claiming videos are faked of the Russian atrocitites.

I believe the Orcs are doing Orc struff, like they always have done.

Those who supported Putin in this war now have the some uncomfortable introspection ahead.

Oops!! Narrative fail!

Sounds like it was Azov clearing out "collaborators". You know that area has a high percentage of ethnic Russians.



https://summit.news/2022/04/04/ukra...a-a-day-before-dead-body-videos-emerged/

I'm sure Azov is who shelled everywhere too, right?

🙄

It does say the Ukrainians shelled before moving in. Seems like a smart thing to do before you move on an area that might be enemy occupied.

This reply was made in response to JoeBob's, not to your's.

In response to your post:

The Japanese attacked the U.S., so whatever they received in return prior to accepting an unconditional surrender was a penalty that they earned for attacking us. Halsey had it right when he said "Before we're through with them, the Japanese language will be spoken only in Hell. I have seldom met a WW2 vet who fought in the PTO speak well of the Japanese. Those who I knew, including my Father and his wartime friends, hated all things Japanese to their core.

The Nazis were the first to use strategic bombing against civilian targets in Europe,when they invaded Poland in 1939.. They continued to bomb civilian targets wherever they went, so when the tide turned and Germany went over to the defense, they got back what they had given. Payback is a MOFO.

AFAIK, Ukraine didn't invade Russia. If Ukraine was fighting a civil war within the boundaries of their country, that was their business until the Russians decided to get involved. The Russians have the upper hand now, but they are being bled and the Ukrainian forces are likely to give no quarter to any Russian soldiers who they encounter. Remember Pearl Harbor was our rallying cry during WW2 and I expect that the Ukrainians will have cause for a like rallying cry during their war against Russian aggression. When the fighting is done, I think that we should give all of the Russian assets that we have frozen to Ukraine to use for rebuilding the destruction that the Russians have caused.

As with all things, everybody is going to feel differently and have a different perspective, this is how I feel and what my perspective is. I'm not trying to convince anyone that my way is the right way for them, just that it is the right way for me.

Lil Stevie Wonder seems perturbed but compelled to read and compelled to comment.

Laughing!

Sorry, I didn't get it in the first place. I am no native English speaker. After having pushed the "send"button and I slept it over I recognized that it would have been sarcastic.

Who still think that it is fake news and deep fake video should consider:

The Great Purge - fake?

Russian's attack against Finnland 1939/1940 - fake?

Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact - fake?

Soviet invasion of Poland, contrary to international law, with a Soviet parade on September 27, 1939 inLviv as a highlight- fake?

Crushing the uprisings in GDR 1953, Hungary in 1956 and Prague in 1968 with the help of Soviet tanks - fake?

1953, 1956 and 1968 may be long ago but still has faces:



Erika Szelel, a young Hungarian woman, was killed in the attempt to give first aid to wounded fighters while she was wearing a red cross armband




Russians in Afghanistan 1979 - 1989 - fake?

Russian troops in Checheny and Syria - fake?

Vilnius's Bloody Sunday January 13, 1991 - fake?

Worth repeating...And I'll add the extermination of the Kulaks by said Russians...

Very well said. I will add to your post that I knew a lot of WW2 vets, and they all pretty much to man hated all things Japanese. As far as this particular conflict goes, the people on here who are siding with Russia are doing so only because Trump said Ukraine bad, Putin good. The blinders that they are wearing do not allow them to see anything else.

That was also my impression. And in a sudden Trump will change his mind and leave his followers behind.

So you admire Powell because he went before congress and REPEATEDLY LIED and stated that Iraq had WMD's . Of course this got America into 20 years of wars and billions and billions of dollars wasted and tens of thousands of innocent lives lost. You admire that? You were bragging recently about a sky high IQ lol. No wonder someone so gullible and easily duped worships a corrupt liar like Zelenskiy who has been caught repeatedly lying about atrocities like your hero Powell. Your history degree really paid off lol. Amazing how dumbed down half of Americans are now





https://theintercept.com/2018/02/06...fteen-years-ago-and-what-he-told-the-un/

On February 5, 2003, as the United States was preparing to invade Iraq, Secretary of State Colin Powell made a pivotal presentation to the United Nations Security Council claiming Saddam Hussein was developing weapons of mass destruction (WMD).

The biological weapon anthrax could be delivered against Iraq’s neighbours or the US by unmanned aerial vehicles, Powell claimed, dramatically holding up a small glass vial as proof.


“Saddam Hussein and his regime will stop a nothing until something stops him,” Powell told the UN Security Council, arguing that Iraq was deceiving UN weapons inspectors.

Powell’s presentation was forceful, seemingly exhaustive and had the effect of cinching the US case for preemptive war against Iraq before the international community.




“What we are giving you are facts and conclusions based on solid intelligence,” Powell told the Security Council.

But it was not true. The underlying intelligence was false. For Powell, who died at age 84 on October 18 from complications of COVID-19, it proved to be an enduring stain on his record.

Powell, who was secretary of state from 2002 to 2005, gave an elaborate description of Iraq’s weapons programme and sought to tie Hussein to al-Qaeda in “ambition and hatred”.

“This was a typical American show, complete with stunts and special effects,” Iraq Lieutenant General Amir al-Saadi, who had overseen Hussein’s weapons programme, said of Powell’s presentation at the time.


Powell raised doubts privately with President George W Bush about the accuracy of US intelligence claiming Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction [File: David J Phillip/AP Photo]



History has proven al-Saadi correct; Iraq had destroyed its special weapons in compliance with UN mandates.

Before the US invasion, no weapons of mass destruction had been found in more than 70 UN site inspections. And none was found after by the US military.



Powell was defensive at first, denying to Congress in 2004 that US intelligence had been twisted to justify the US invasion.

“Truth is the first casualty of war. I would contend that the truth was murdered before a shot was fired,” Representative Gary Ackerman, a Democrat, told Powell in a contentious hearing.




Powell snapped back, “The truth was not murdered, Mr Ackerman. Nobody shaped it, nobody told the intelligence community what to say.”

Years later, confronted with the facts, Powell was forced to acknowledge that his UN presentation, painstakingly prepared across several days by the CIA, was wrong.

“It turned out, as we discovered later, that a lot of sources that had been attested to by the intelligence community were wrong,” Powell told Al Jazeera in 2011 interview.

P

As became clear, questionable US intelligence reports had been cherry-picked and elevated to support President George W Bush’s propaganda drive to convince Americans that war against Iraq was necessary. Powell’s UN speech was pivotal in swaying US public opinion.

“It has blotted my record, but you know, there’s nothing I can do to change that blot. All I can say is that I gave it the best analysis that I could,” Powell told Al Jazeera.

In the weeks and months that followed the US invasion on March 19, 2003, US forces struggled to find evidence of WMD.

“I was more than embarrassed. I was mortified,” Powell said in a 2017 interview on Bloomberg, admitting his presentation had been pivotal.

“I’m the one who made the biggest presentation of it, and so it all sort of fell on me,” said Powell who repeatedly blamed the US intelligence agencies for producing bad information.

“There wasn’t a word in that speech, that presentation that was not vetted and approved by the intelligence community,” Powell told CNN interviewer Larry King in 2010.

In fact, Powell had been apprehensive about the US intelligence on Iraq and he confided to the British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw at the time that he feared the doubtful claims would “explode in their faces”, according to reports of Straw and Powell’s conversation.

The bad intelligence was produced by political appointees working for then-Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld and Vice President Dick Cheney.

I Lewis “Scooter” Libby, a top aide to Cheney, and Douglas Feith, who headed Rumsfeld’s Office of Special Plans, produced a series of bogus claims including that Iraq had bought a uranium source from Niger and that there were links between al-Qaeda and Hussein’s government.

The two worked to incorporate the information into talking points and presentations and they targeted doubters like Powell inside the administration and critics outside.

Libby was later convicted for publicising the identity of CIA agent Valerie Plame in retaliation against her husband Ambassador Joe Wilson, who had publicly challenged Bush’s arguments.

A former US ambassador to Niger, Wilson had investigated the Niger uranium claims at the request of the CIA in 2002 and reported back that they were false.

George W Bush commuted Libby’s 30-month prison sentence for revealing Plame as a secret agent but did not pardon him, leaving in place his felony conviction.

And you two dummies are lapping up everything Biden and Don Lemmon tell you.


Nice work.

The communist party exterminated the Kulaks with the help of Ukrainian, Russian, Georgian etc nationals. The CPCC consisted of many nationalities. If I remember my history correctly Stalin was not a Russian national and neither were Lenin, Trotsky.

If one actually looks at the history of Ukraine you would be shocked at the amount of atrocities, mass murders were committed by Ukrainians . But why look at history?

James how's the US and European economies been doing since this skirmish started? Boy everyone's retirement investments are doing great particularly the past month.

When did Trump say to support Russia over Ukraine? Can you post a video of him saying that? Thanks

Can you post where Trump said that Ukraine was bad and Russia was good?

Regarding the kulaks. Thousands of Ukrainian nationals attacked burned down, looted the businesses of kulaks and they murdered many kulaks and their families in the Ukraine. They were manipulated by the CPCC that consisted of Russian nationals and many other nationalities.


Maybe try reading a history book sometime

So what was fire bombing Germany and Japan during WWII listed as?Really ,no Nation is not guilty of killing women and children during war.Its under the chit happens clause.