I've been following several self defense sites for several years now and my views toward self defense with a handgun have changed significantly due to this.
The discussion on this site and most sites are that a carry weapon needs to be able to inflict a fatal impact or it isn't suitable for concealed carry. I can get behind this to a point- if you are in a situation where you actually have to use a gun to defend yourself the adrenaline is going to be like a faucet being opened up, your hands probably won't be steady, your brain will probably freeze unless you have practiced enough to have muscle memory to go through the motions, and the attacker is going to be advancing on you... in that case you want to end this as soon as possible . And when I am in a season where wearing enough clothing to cover up a larger weapon is feasible I prefer to do this, but....
Most of the self defense types these days advise two things in every case that I have seen- if you have the opportunity, run from the danger as quickly as your feet will carry you- and second, if you have to use your weapon shoot center mass and as accurately as possible even it it takes a little more time to aim and shoot. One or two well placed shots is way better than spraying shots everywhere and not hitting anything except bystanders, cars, etc....
Here is where I have modified my behavior and believe it is worth considering. During warm weather I seldom have sufficient clothing on to conceal my .45 ACP carry weapon so I often didn't carry in those conditions. I felt naked a lot of times and especially now with the homelessness problems and uptick in crime. So I started looking into what self defense really meant to me and basically what I realized is I need to slow down or stop an assailant, but not necessarily kill them. This had a major effect on my outlook on weapons choices and why I ended up purchasing a .380 for a carry weapon. I can carry it all the time and not feel it is going to show enough that I have to worry about some Karen going ballistic on me in public and it will get the job done. I have shifted my priorities to where I feel if I can land a couple shots center mass or in the head/neck area with a .380 or even a .22, it will be enough to stop or slow the attack enough for me to get proper distance or defend those around me. I'm pretty sure dumping a mag of .380 or .22 into somebody at relatively close range is going to give just about anyone a very bad day...
The whole point most of these self defense instructors seem to be getting across is the first objective is to get away from the threat as a first priority. Stopping the assailant and protecting yourself and others is secondary. And alerting the police given the time frame is way down the list once your adrenaline calms down a bit, hopefully...
I know there will be lots of back and forth on this... what do you think?
I'm old, with a titanium knee, arthritis everywhere (prolly in the noggin too) and the docs have told me my running days are over.
I may hustle as fast as I can to get to cover/shelter, but at my speeds the "attacker" will likely just hit me in the ass or something before I get there.
I still ain't tellin' whether I have a spare mag. In case I do make it cover, the bad guy's gonna hafta guess too.
Avoiding the situation ahead of time is the best tactic. Since that dozen’t work 100% of the time, I choose to be prepared. You can avoid a lot of sheit, however, with a bit of pre planning, thinking, and paying attention to your surroundings. I cannot seem to beat this into my wife’s head. She insists on stumbling through this world completely oblivious to what takes place around her.
Avoiding the situation ahead of time is the best tactic. Since that dozen’t work 100% of the time, I choose to be prepared. You can avoid a lot of sheit, however, with a bit of pre planning, thinking, and paying attention to your surroundings. I cannot seem to beat this into my wife’s head. She insists on stumbling through this world completely oblivious to what takes place around her.
Most excellent and reasonable post, sir. Rittenhouse was 100% in the right to do what he did and I'm sure of the couch commandos here would love to have been him, but no thanks, I'd rather run than face having to hire an army of Yid lawyers to defend my ass,,,
Avoiding the situation ahead of time is the best tactic. Since that dozen’t work 100% of the time, I choose to be prepared. You can avoid a lot of sheit, however, with a bit of pre planning, thinking, and paying attention to your surroundings. I cannot seem to beat this into my wife’s head. She insists on stumbling through this world completely oblivious to what takes place around her.
Same thing here. Bout had to pop some weirdo when we were going out to lunch one day.
Dude came out of nowhere. But she and he both disregarded my initial warning. 2nd warning w hand on gun she stopped and he took off.
Having worked my entire life in the 5 boroughs of the NYC cesspool, I too try to avoid a situation by constantly being aware of my surroundings and adjusting accordingly. My head is always moving, and my eyes and ears are always working. If things look like they are about to get uncomfortable, I will always try first to vacate the area. Distance is always the best defense.
If a schiet storm becomes inevitable and I need to pull my weapon, (I pray I never have to), I'm going all in to preserve my life and/or that of my loved ones.
I'm now retired in Florida. In cooler weather, with heavier clothes, I have no problem concealing a CZ PCR with 16+1 capability. In the brutal hot summers, where a tee shirt and shorts is more the norm, I've turned to a pocket holstered 6+1 .380. I much prefer the 9mm, but like they say, something is always better than nothing.
The .380 will do the job. A couple of torso shots should take the fight right out of them. Just think, the bad guy is wearing a tshirt too, no heavy jacket to slow the bullet.
Avoiding the situation ahead of time is the best tactic. Since that dozen’t work 100% of the time, I choose to be prepared. You can avoid a lot of sheit, however, with a bit of pre planning, thinking, and paying attention to your surroundings. I cannot seem to beat this into my wife’s head. She insists on stumbling through this world completely oblivious to what takes place around her.
Good advice here. My wife is always armed and aware. She even stopped wearing any expensive looking jewelry. No need drawing unwanted attention to yourself. Hasbeen
I've been following several self defense sites for several years now and my views toward self defense with a handgun have changed significantly due to this.
The discussion on this site and most sites are that a carry weapon needs to be able to inflict a fatal impact or it isn't suitable for concealed carry. I can get behind this to a point- if you are in a situation where you actually have to use a gun to defend yourself the adrenaline is going to be like a faucet being opened up, your hands probably won't be steady, your brain will probably freeze unless you have practiced enough to have muscle memory to go through the motions, and the attacker is going to be advancing on you... in that case you want to end this as soon as possible . And when I am in a season where wearing enough clothing to cover up a larger weapon is feasible I prefer to do this, but....
Most of the self defense types these days advise two things in every case that I have seen- if you have the opportunity, run from the danger as quickly as your feet will carry you- and second, if you have to use your weapon shoot center mass and as accurately as possible even it it takes a little more time to aim and shoot. One or two well placed shots is way better than spraying shots everywhere and not hitting anything except bystanders, cars, etc....
Here is where I have modified my behavior and believe it is worth considering. During warm weather I seldom have sufficient clothing on to conceal my .45 ACP carry weapon so I often didn't carry in those conditions. I felt naked a lot of times and especially now with the homelessness problems and uptick in crime. So I started looking into what self defense really meant to me and basically what I realized is I need to slow down or stop an assailant, but not necessarily kill them. This had a major effect on my outlook on weapons choices and why I ended up purchasing a .380 for a carry weapon. I can carry it all the time and not feel it is going to show enough that I have to worry about some Karen going ballistic on me in public and it will get the job done. I have shifted my priorities to where I feel if I can land a couple shots center mass or in the head/neck area with a .380 or even a .22, it will be enough to stop or slow the attack enough for me to get proper distance or defend those around me. I'm pretty sure dumping a mag of .380 or .22 into somebody at relatively close range is going to give just about anyone a very bad day...
The whole point most of these self defense instructors seem to be getting across is the first objective is to get away from the threat as a first priority. Stopping the assailant and protecting yourself and others is secondary. And alerting the police given the time frame is way down the list once your adrenaline calms down a bit, hopefully...
I know there will be lots of back and forth on this... what do you think?
I carry a 5-shot 357 revolver in warm weather and when I'm wearing shorts.
"The .380 in your pocket is much better that the .45 Auto back at home in the night stand". My Polish P-64 has a slightly more powerful round than a PPK, and is almost the same size and weight. The only time I've had to seriously consider anything beyond a loud verbal warning was late one night at a well-lit gas station on the bypass loop around Atlanta. I had forgotten to gas up before I got there. A persistent panhandler and his buddy he thought I didn't know was there tried to tag team me, and the guy who believed he was distracting me with his sob story figured out that I was onto his game. I got as far as lifting my shirt tail and getting a grip on my carry piece before they both decided they had business elsewhere, RIGHT NOW!
#1 -- Green -- all is well, no perceived threats. #2 -- Amber -- Your spider sense is tingling -- check the area to see if there is a possible escape. #3 -- Red -- imminent death or bodily harm -- Hope it doesn"t get to this. Protection mode.
In average stay somewhere between green and amber -- ever aware.
Avoiding the situation ahead of time is the best tactic. Since that dozen’t work 100% of the time, I choose to be prepared. You can avoid a lot of sheit, however, with a bit of pre planning, thinking, and paying attention to your surroundings. I cannot seem to beat this into my wife’s head. She insists on stumbling through this world completely oblivious to what takes place around her.
Most excellent and reasonable post, sir. Rittenhouse was 100% in the right to do what he did and I'm sure of the couch commandos here would love to have been him, but no thanks, I'd rather run than face having to hire an army of Yid lawyers to defend my ass,,,
It is the rule of stupid cubed, if you go to stupid places, at stupid times, with stupid people, bad things will happen. Follow the rule of stupid, always be aware of your surroundings, and always carry, as a last resort, just in case.
If that is not possible, only then stand your ground.
I agree with this in principle, however that is a decision you may have to make in a split second. For instance, you're stuck in traffic and you see someone coming who you think may be trying to carjack you. Do you evacuate the vehicle with your family or do you take out your weapon and assume a defensive stance while cautioning your family, friends, or ? to get as low as possible in the vehicle? Or you are standing outside a restaurant in the dark waiting for a table in 80 degree weather. A guy is coming across the parking lot in a heavy coat that goes down to his knees and he isn't the friendly looking type....
The problem is there is no one size fits all situation for a self defense situation. We have to make decisions based on very little information, using our gut instincts, with others possibly depending on us, with the best weapon we have at hand, knowing there will be legal consequences at the end. I don't envy cops in this situation and they are trained - for the rest of us we can be pretty brave as the Alpha males we see ourselves as on sites like this, but we never really know how we will react in real life until it happens...
My problem is I ain't got much ass so carrying one of the 1911s I'm constantly having to pull my pants up because they start sagging.
Suspenders Roger
Kahr PM 9 in a pocket holster is easy to conceal not very fast to draw from when seated in the truck though. Never even looked at a .380 because the Kahr is plenty small enough for me.
I'm all about retreat if possible but a bad knee and back have lowered the bar about what presents the possibility of grave harm to myself.
Part of any answer will depend on what state you happen to be in....for example, in WI we have 'have no duty to retreat'... Yet, in MN, one must run/hide/retreat until nothing left is available except deadly force...
If some sob is comin' at me with some kind of weapon, he (or it) is gonna have a really, really bad day.. Just sayin'.
A full size 1911 is easily concealed when wearing a pair of shorts and a tee shirt.
It never ceases to crack me up when guys talk about "hard to conceal" or "summer wear". Hell, it's summer here damn near all the time. A Carhartt t-shirt untucked and Wrangler cargo shorts are my daily attire. I could damn near conceal a minigun under there.
A full size 1911 is easily concealed when wearing a pair of shorts and a tee shirt.
It never ceases to crack me up when guys talk about "hard to conceal" or "summer wear". Hell, it's summer here damn near all the time. A Carhartt t-shirt untucked and Wrangler cargo shorts are my daily attire. I could damn near conceal a minigun under there.
I packed a 1911 daily in S Texas with such a uniform when I lived there.
Seeing what other white Christian straight men go through if they defend themselves with a concealed firearm I’ll do everything I can to extricate my family (first) and myself (second) safely without firing a shot (third).
If that is not possible, only then stand your ground.
Even Sun Tzu said the best battle is one you never have to fight! (or something like that, ha) My minimum is a S&W snubby (158+P LHC) in a Mika Pocket holster. EDC is a G23. Last and best thing I bought was "Concealed Carry Insurance". You don't want to have to defend yourself with a local ambulance chaser lawyer on your own dime!
PS Work all this out beforehand, if you can. Too many unknowns and you will hesitate...very bad for you.
I'll only add a GOOD belt and holster do wonders for toting fight stopping pistols. I tote a streamlight so I can see and spare mags so I can shoot. The "not being there" is the safest play. Your in Oregon well-known enclave of liberals so you should move away.
"The .380 in your pocket is much better that the .45 Auto back at home in the night stand". My Polish P-64 has a slightly more powerful round than a PPK, and is almost the same size and weight. The only time I've had to seriously consider anything beyond a loud verbal warning was late one night at a well-lit gas station on the bypass loop around Atlanta. I had forgotten to gas up before I got there. A persistent panhandler and his buddy he thought I didn't know was there tried to tag team me, and the guy who believed he was distracting me with his sob story figured out that I was onto his game. I got as far as lifting my shirt tail and getting a grip on my carry piece before they both decided they had business elsewhere, RIGHT NOW!
I 285. I have spent many hundreds of hours driving this road. You don't recall which exit it was, do you?
I play golf with a few attorneys. They have all told me to run when possible. If running is not possible because I’m in my own home or cornered in a room, etc. with no escape route, it’s best to kill the perp as opposed to simply hitting him once or twice. They all have told me to prepare for a civil suit if the perp lives or dies. Oh, I carry a Glock 36 while wearing shorts and t shirt. No problem.
Part of any answer will depend on what state you happen to be in....for example, in WI we have 'have no duty to retreat'... Yet, in MN, one must run/hide/retreat until nothing left is available except deadly force...
If some sob is comin' at me with some kind of weapon, he (or it) is gonna have a really, really bad day.. Just sayin'.
Good point on state where you live. Better make sure everything is done right where I live.
I've been following several self defense sites for several years now and my views toward self defense with a handgun have changed significantly due to this.
The discussion on this site and most sites are that a carry weapon needs to be able to inflict a fatal impact or it isn't suitable for concealed carry. I can get behind this to a point- if you are in a situation where you actually have to use a gun to defend yourself the adrenaline is going to be like a faucet being opened up, your hands probably won't be steady, your brain will probably freeze unless you have practiced enough to have muscle memory to go through the motions, and the attacker is going to be advancing on you... in that case you want to end this as soon as possible . And when I am in a season where wearing enough clothing to cover up a larger weapon is feasible I prefer to do this, but....
Most of the self defense types these days advise two things in every case that I have seen- if you have the opportunity, run from the danger as quickly as your feet will carry you- and second, if you have to use your weapon shoot center mass and as accurately as possible even it it takes a little more time to aim and shoot. One or two well placed shots is way better than spraying shots everywhere and not hitting anything except bystanders, cars, etc....
Here is where I have modified my behavior and believe it is worth considering. During warm weather I seldom have sufficient clothing on to conceal my .45 ACP carry weapon so I often didn't carry in those conditions. I felt naked a lot of times and especially now with the homelessness problems and uptick in crime. So I started looking into what self defense really meant to me and basically what I realized is I need to slow down or stop an assailant, but not necessarily kill them. This had a major effect on my outlook on weapons choices and why I ended up purchasing a .380 for a carry weapon. I can carry it all the time and not feel it is going to show enough that I have to worry about some Karen going ballistic on me in public and it will get the job done. I have shifted my priorities to where I feel if I can land a couple shots center mass or in the head/neck area with a .380 or even a .22, it will be enough to stop or slow the attack enough for me to get proper distance or defend those around me. I'm pretty sure dumping a mag of .380 or .22 into somebody at relatively close range is going to give just about anyone a very bad day...
The whole point most of these self defense instructors seem to be getting across is the first objective is to get away from the threat as a first priority. Stopping the assailant and protecting yourself and others is secondary. And alerting the police given the time frame is way down the list once your adrenaline calms down a bit, hopefully...
I know there will be lots of back and forth on this... what do you think?
I think the advice you’ve been given is absurd and whoever gave it to you does not have the first fugking clue what they’re talking about.
I also (based on your warm weather comments) don’t think you’ve taken concealed carry seriously enough to have done it very often.
I’ve read some schit before but justifying a cartridge choice because it may not kill them as dead, and fear of being harassed by a woman for excessive printing has to be toward the top of the absurd heap.
Something I realized once that left me feeling pretty cold is the bad guys almost always have the option to draw first blood.
Back then I had a job handling and transporting very large sums of cash. I carried a holstered handgun, a .45 ACP, and spare magazine but was alone and in a non armored vehicle. On any day a seriously intent bad guy could have easily taken me out first, at their whim, with a minimum of planing and exposure, grabbed the money and disappeared in a minute or two.
I play golf with a few attorneys. They have all told me to run when possible. If running is not possible because I’m in my own home or cornered in a room, etc. with no escape route, it’s best to kill the perp as opposed to simply hitting him once or twice. They all have told me to prepare for a civil suit if the perp lives or dies. Oh, I carry a Glock 36 while wearing shorts and t shirt. No problem.
I've been following several self defense sites for several years now and my views toward self defense with a handgun have changed significantly due to this.
The discussion on this site and most sites are that a carry weapon needs to be able to inflict a fatal impact or it isn't suitable for concealed carry. I can get behind this to a point- if you are in a situation where you actually have to use a gun to defend yourself the adrenaline is going to be like a faucet being opened up, your hands probably won't be steady, your brain will probably freeze unless you have practiced enough to have muscle memory to go through the motions, and the attacker is going to be advancing on you... in that case you want to end this as soon as possible . And when I am in a season where wearing enough clothing to cover up a larger weapon is feasible I prefer to do this, but....
Most of the self defense types these days advise two things in every case that I have seen- if you have the opportunity, run from the danger as quickly as your feet will carry you- and second, if you have to use your weapon shoot center mass and as accurately as possible even it it takes a little more time to aim and shoot. One or two well placed shots is way better than spraying shots everywhere and not hitting anything except bystanders, cars, etc....
Here is where I have modified my behavior and believe it is worth considering. During warm weather I seldom have sufficient clothing on to conceal my .45 ACP carry weapon so I often didn't carry in those conditions. I felt naked a lot of times and especially now with the homelessness problems and uptick in crime. So I started looking into what self defense really meant to me and basically what I realized is I need to slow down or stop an assailant, but not necessarily kill them. This had a major effect on my outlook on weapons choices and why I ended up purchasing a .380 for a carry weapon. I can carry it all the time and not feel it is going to show enough that I have to worry about some Karen going ballistic on me in public and it will get the job done. I have shifted my priorities to where I feel if I can land a couple shots center mass or in the head/neck area with a .380 or even a .22, it will be enough to stop or slow the attack enough for me to get proper distance or defend those around me. I'm pretty sure dumping a mag of .380 or .22 into somebody at relatively close range is going to give just about anyone a very bad day...
The whole point most of these self defense instructors seem to be getting across is the first objective is to get away from the threat as a first priority. Stopping the assailant and protecting yourself and others is secondary. And alerting the police given the time frame is way down the list once your adrenaline calms down a bit, hopefully...
I know there will be lots of back and forth on this... what do you think?
I carry a 5-shot 357 revolver in warm weather and when I'm wearing shorts.
Me too. I used to carry a .380. Once while out plinking with it I saw that it penetrated into a maple tree only about 1/2 inch with FMJ ammo. Kind of lost my confidence in it at that point.
Avoiding the situation ahead of time is the best tactic. Since that dozen’t work 100% of the time, I choose to be prepared. You can avoid a lot of sheit, however, with a bit of pre planning, thinking, and paying attention to your surroundings. I cannot seem to beat this into my wife’s head. She insists on stumbling through this world completely oblivious to what takes place around her.
I could not agree more. I carry for those times when situational awareness does not work.
I've been following several self defense sites for several years now and my views toward self defense with a handgun have changed significantly due to this.
The discussion on this site and most sites are that a carry weapon needs to be able to inflict a fatal impact or it isn't suitable for concealed carry. I can get behind this to a point- if you are in a situation where you actually have to use a gun to defend yourself the adrenaline is going to be like a faucet being opened up, your hands probably won't be steady, your brain will probably freeze unless you have practiced enough to have muscle memory to go through the motions, and the attacker is going to be advancing on you... in that case you want to end this as soon as possible . And when I am in a season where wearing enough clothing to cover up a larger weapon is feasible I prefer to do this, but....
Most of the self defense types these days advise two things in every case that I have seen- if you have the opportunity, run from the danger as quickly as your feet will carry you- and second, if you have to use your weapon shoot center mass and as accurately as possible even it it takes a little more time to aim and shoot. One or two well placed shots is way better than spraying shots everywhere and not hitting anything except bystanders, cars, etc....
Here is where I have modified my behavior and believe it is worth considering. During warm weather I seldom have sufficient clothing on to conceal my .45 ACP carry weapon so I often didn't carry in those conditions. I felt naked a lot of times and especially now with the homelessness problems and uptick in crime. So I started looking into what self defense really meant to me and basically what I realized is I need to slow down or stop an assailant, but not necessarily kill them. This had a major effect on my outlook on weapons choices and why I ended up purchasing a .380 for a carry weapon. I can carry it all the time and not feel it is going to show enough that I have to worry about some Karen going ballistic on me in public and it will get the job done. I have shifted my priorities to where I feel if I can land a couple shots center mass or in the head/neck area with a .380 or even a .22, it will be enough to stop or slow the attack enough for me to get proper distance or defend those around me. I'm pretty sure dumping a mag of .380 or .22 into somebody at relatively close range is going to give just about anyone a very bad day...
The whole point most of these self defense instructors seem to be getting across is the first objective is to get away from the threat as a first priority. Stopping the assailant and protecting yourself and others is secondary. And alerting the police given the time frame is way down the list once your adrenaline calms down a bit, hopefully...
I know there will be lots of back and forth on this... what do you think?
I think the advice you’ve been given is absurd and whoever gave it to you does not have the first fugking clue what they’re talking about.
I also (based on your warm weather comments) don’t think you’ve taken concealed carry seriously enough to have done it very often.
I’ve read some schit before but justifying a cartridge choice because it may not kill them as dead, and fear of being harassed by a woman for excessive printing has to be toward the top of the absurd heap.
We need that Like button. Spot on.
Nobody ever wished for less firepower when the lead was flying.
I've been following several self defense sites for several years now and my views toward self defense with a handgun have changed significantly due to this.
The discussion on this site and most sites are that a carry weapon needs to be able to inflict a fatal impact or it isn't suitable for concealed carry. I can get behind this to a point- if you are in a situation where you actually have to use a gun to defend yourself the adrenaline is going to be like a faucet being opened up, your hands probably won't be steady, your brain will probably freeze unless you have practiced enough to have muscle memory to go through the motions, and the attacker is going to be advancing on you... in that case you want to end this as soon as possible . And when I am in a season where wearing enough clothing to cover up a larger weapon is feasible I prefer to do this, but....
Most of the self defense types these days advise two things in every case that I have seen- if you have the opportunity, run from the danger as quickly as your feet will carry you- and second, if you have to use your weapon shoot center mass and as accurately as possible even it it takes a little more time to aim and shoot. One or two well placed shots is way better than spraying shots everywhere and not hitting anything except bystanders, cars, etc....
Here is where I have modified my behavior and believe it is worth considering. During warm weather I seldom have sufficient clothing on to conceal my .45 ACP carry weapon so I often didn't carry in those conditions. I felt naked a lot of times and especially now with the homelessness problems and uptick in crime. So I started looking into what self defense really meant to me and basically what I realized is I need to slow down or stop an assailant, but not necessarily kill them. This had a major effect on my outlook on weapons choices and why I ended up purchasing a .380 for a carry weapon. I can carry it all the time and not feel it is going to show enough that I have to worry about some Karen going ballistic on me in public and it will get the job done. I have shifted my priorities to where I feel if I can land a couple shots center mass or in the head/neck area with a .380 or even a .22, it will be enough to stop or slow the attack enough for me to get proper distance or defend those around me. I'm pretty sure dumping a mag of .380 or .22 into somebody at relatively close range is going to give just about anyone a very bad day...
The whole point most of these self defense instructors seem to be getting across is the first objective is to get away from the threat as a first priority. Stopping the assailant and protecting yourself and others is secondary. And alerting the police given the time frame is way down the list once your adrenaline calms down a bit, hopefully...
I know there will be lots of back and forth on this... what do you think?
I think the advice you’ve been given is absurd and whoever gave it to you does not have the first fugking clue what they’re talking about.
I also (based on your warm weather comments) don’t think you’ve taken concealed carry seriously enough to have done it very often.
I’ve read some schit before but justifying a cartridge choice because it may not kill them as dead, and fear of being harassed by a woman for excessive printing has to be toward the top of the absurd heap.
So, you think your advice is any more credible? Give me a break.... and apparently your reading comprehension isn't too good either...
I've been following several self defense sites for several years now and my views toward self defense with a handgun have changed significantly due to this.
The discussion on this site and most sites are that a carry weapon needs to be able to inflict a fatal impact or it isn't suitable for concealed carry. I can get behind this to a point- if you are in a situation where you actually have to use a gun to defend yourself the adrenaline is going to be like a faucet being opened up, your hands probably won't be steady, your brain will probably freeze unless you have practiced enough to have muscle memory to go through the motions, and the attacker is going to be advancing on you... in that case you want to end this as soon as possible . And when I am in a season where wearing enough clothing to cover up a larger weapon is feasible I prefer to do this, but....
Most of the self defense types these days advise two things in every case that I have seen- if you have the opportunity, run from the danger as quickly as your feet will carry you- and second, if you have to use your weapon shoot center mass and as accurately as possible even it it takes a little more time to aim and shoot. One or two well placed shots is way better than spraying shots everywhere and not hitting anything except bystanders, cars, etc....
Here is where I have modified my behavior and believe it is worth considering. During warm weather I seldom have sufficient clothing on to conceal my .45 ACP carry weapon so I often didn't carry in those conditions. I felt naked a lot of times and especially now with the homelessness problems and uptick in crime. So I started looking into what self defense really meant to me and basically what I realized is I need to slow down or stop an assailant, but not necessarily kill them. This had a major effect on my outlook on weapons choices and why I ended up purchasing a .380 for a carry weapon. I can carry it all the time and not feel it is going to show enough that I have to worry about some Karen going ballistic on me in public and it will get the job done. I have shifted my priorities to where I feel if I can land a couple shots center mass or in the head/neck area with a .380 or even a .22, it will be enough to stop or slow the attack enough for me to get proper distance or defend those around me. I'm pretty sure dumping a mag of .380 or .22 into somebody at relatively close range is going to give just about anyone a very bad day...
The whole point most of these self defense instructors seem to be getting across is the first objective is to get away from the threat as a first priority. Stopping the assailant and protecting yourself and others is secondary. And alerting the police given the time frame is way down the list once your adrenaline calms down a bit, hopefully...
I know there will be lots of back and forth on this... what do you think?
I carry a 5-shot 357 revolver in warm weather and when I'm wearing shorts.
Me too. I used to carry a .380. Once while out plinking with it I saw that it penetrated into a maple tree only about 1/2 inch with FMJ ammo. Kind of lost my confidence in it at that point.
I used to work with a guy and his on and off again girlfriend. They'd fight like cats and dogs one week then hump like rabbits the next. He cheated every chance he got and relished flaunting it in her face when they were on the outs.
One New Years evening they had been fighting, both were about half 'lit', she popped him in the lower torso with her little .380. It took a little while but he bled out and died laying in the parking lot of her apartment complex.
I've been following several self defense sites for several years now and my views toward self defense with a handgun have changed significantly due to this.
The discussion on this site and most sites are that a carry weapon needs to be able to inflict a fatal impact or it isn't suitable for concealed carry. I can get behind this to a point- if you are in a situation where you actually have to use a gun to defend yourself the adrenaline is going to be like a faucet being opened up, your hands probably won't be steady, your brain will probably freeze unless you have practiced enough to have muscle memory to go through the motions, and the attacker is going to be advancing on you... in that case you want to end this as soon as possible . And when I am in a season where wearing enough clothing to cover up a larger weapon is feasible I prefer to do this, but....
Most of the self defense types these days advise two things in every case that I have seen- if you have the opportunity, run from the danger as quickly as your feet will carry you- and second, if you have to use your weapon shoot center mass and as accurately as possible even it it takes a little more time to aim and shoot. One or two well placed shots is way better than spraying shots everywhere and not hitting anything except bystanders, cars, etc....
Here is where I have modified my behavior and believe it is worth considering. During warm weather I seldom have sufficient clothing on to conceal my .45 ACP carry weapon so I often didn't carry in those conditions. I felt naked a lot of times and especially now with the homelessness problems and uptick in crime. So I started looking into what self defense really meant to me and basically what I realized is I need to slow down or stop an assailant, but not necessarily kill them. This had a major effect on my outlook on weapons choices and why I ended up purchasing a .380 for a carry weapon. I can carry it all the time and not feel it is going to show enough that I have to worry about some Karen going ballistic on me in public and it will get the job done. I have shifted my priorities to where I feel if I can land a couple shots center mass or in the head/neck area with a .380 or even a .22, it will be enough to stop or slow the attack enough for me to get proper distance or defend those around me. I'm pretty sure dumping a mag of .380 or .22 into somebody at relatively close range is going to give just about anyone a very bad day...
The whole point most of these self defense instructors seem to be getting across is the first objective is to get away from the threat as a first priority. Stopping the assailant and protecting yourself and others is secondary. And alerting the police given the time frame is way down the list once your adrenaline calms down a bit, hopefully...
I know there will be lots of back and forth on this... what do you think?
I think the advice you’ve been given is absurd and whoever gave it to you does not have the first fugking clue what they’re talking about.
I also (based on your warm weather comments) don’t think you’ve taken concealed carry seriously enough to have done it very often.
I’ve read some schit before but justifying a cartridge choice because it may not kill them as dead, and fear of being harassed by a woman for excessive printing has to be toward the top of the absurd heap.
So, you think your advice is any more credible? Give me a break.... and apparently your reading comprehension isn't too good either...
I'm a big guy, 6'2", 275lbs, haven't had a "butt" for decades now (I'm 69 ha). I carry the Glock 23 in a Kydex IWB holster with a good, stiff leather, purpose made Gun Belt. I have a local made 1 1/2" leather gun belt for cargo shorts/jeans a a 1" black leather (Galco) for dress suit pants. I carried a full sized 1911 for over 20yrs with the same set up, except a good leather IWB until the Kydex became stout enough to trust. Avoid all cheap "chicken skin" IWB "Uncle Mike" kind of stuff. If you use a thumb strap, have every holster with a thumb strap. If open top, all open top...muscle memory. The Buffalo Bore +P 100gr hard cast is a real penetrator in the .380...just saying.
I've been following several self defense sites for several years now and my views toward self defense with a handgun have changed significantly due to this.
The discussion on this site and most sites are that a carry weapon needs to be able to inflict a fatal impact or it isn't suitable for concealed carry. I can get behind this to a point- if you are in a situation where you actually have to use a gun to defend yourself the adrenaline is going to be like a faucet being opened up, your hands probably won't be steady, your brain will probably freeze unless you have practiced enough to have muscle memory to go through the motions, and the attacker is going to be advancing on you... in that case you want to end this as soon as possible . And when I am in a season where wearing enough clothing to cover up a larger weapon is feasible I prefer to do this, but....
Most of the self defense types these days advise two things in every case that I have seen- if you have the opportunity, run from the danger as quickly as your feet will carry you- and second, if you have to use your weapon shoot center mass and as accurately as possible even it it takes a little more time to aim and shoot. One or two well placed shots is way better than spraying shots everywhere and not hitting anything except bystanders, cars, etc....
Here is where I have modified my behavior and believe it is worth considering. During warm weather I seldom have sufficient clothing on to conceal my .45 ACP carry weapon so I often didn't carry in those conditions. I felt naked a lot of times and especially now with the homelessness problems and uptick in crime. So I started looking into what self defense really meant to me and basically what I realized is I need to slow down or stop an assailant, but not necessarily kill them. This had a major effect on my outlook on weapons choices and why I ended up purchasing a .380 for a carry weapon. I can carry it all the time and not feel it is going to show enough that I have to worry about some Karen going ballistic on me in public and it will get the job done. I have shifted my priorities to where I feel if I can land a couple shots center mass or in the head/neck area with a .380 or even a .22, it will be enough to stop or slow the attack enough for me to get proper distance or defend those around me. I'm pretty sure dumping a mag of .380 or .22 into somebody at relatively close range is going to give just about anyone a very bad day...
The whole point most of these self defense instructors seem to be getting across is the first objective is to get away from the threat as a first priority. Stopping the assailant and protecting yourself and others is secondary. And alerting the police given the time frame is way down the list once your adrenaline calms down a bit, hopefully...
I know there will be lots of back and forth on this... what do you think?
I think the advice you’ve been given is absurd and whoever gave it to you does not have the first fugking clue what they’re talking about.
I also (based on your warm weather comments) don’t think you’ve taken concealed carry seriously enough to have done it very often.
I’ve read some schit before but justifying a cartridge choice because it may not kill them as dead, and fear of being harassed by a woman for excessive printing has to be toward the top of the absurd heap.
I've been following several self defense sites for several years now and my views toward self defense with a handgun have changed significantly due to this.
The discussion on this site and most sites are that a carry weapon needs to be able to inflict a fatal impact or it isn't suitable for concealed carry. I can get behind this to a point- if you are in a situation where you actually have to use a gun to defend yourself the adrenaline is going to be like a faucet being opened up, your hands probably won't be steady, your brain will probably freeze unless you have practiced enough to have muscle memory to go through the motions, and the attacker is going to be advancing on you... in that case you want to end this as soon as possible . And when I am in a season where wearing enough clothing to cover up a larger weapon is feasible I prefer to do this, but....
Most of the self defense types these days advise two things in every case that I have seen- if you have the opportunity, run from the danger as quickly as your feet will carry you- and second, if you have to use your weapon shoot center mass and as accurately as possible even it it takes a little more time to aim and shoot. One or two well placed shots is way better than spraying shots everywhere and not hitting anything except bystanders, cars, etc....
Here is where I have modified my behavior and believe it is worth considering. During warm weather I seldom have sufficient clothing on to conceal my .45 ACP carry weapon so I often didn't carry in those conditions. I felt naked a lot of times and especially now with the homelessness problems and uptick in crime. So I started looking into what self defense really meant to me and basically what I realized is I need to slow down or stop an assailant, but not necessarily kill them. This had a major effect on my outlook on weapons choices and why I ended up purchasing a .380 for a carry weapon. I can carry it all the time and not feel it is going to show enough that I have to worry about some Karen going ballistic on me in public and it will get the job done. I have shifted my priorities to where I feel if I can land a couple shots center mass or in the head/neck area with a .380 or even a .22, it will be enough to stop or slow the attack enough for me to get proper distance or defend those around me. I'm pretty sure dumping a mag of .380 or .22 into somebody at relatively close range is going to give just about anyone a very bad day...
The whole point most of these self defense instructors seem to be getting across is the first objective is to get away from the threat as a first priority. Stopping the assailant and protecting yourself and others is secondary. And alerting the police given the time frame is way down the list once your adrenaline calms down a bit, hopefully...
I know there will be lots of back and forth on this... what do you think?
I think the advice you’ve been given is absurd and whoever gave it to you does not have the first fugking clue what they’re talking about.
I also (based on your warm weather comments) don’t think you’ve taken concealed carry seriously enough to have done it very often.
I’ve read some schit before but justifying a cartridge choice because it may not kill them as dead, and fear of being harassed by a woman for excessive printing has to be toward the top of the absurd heap.
So, you think your advice is any more credible? Give me a break.... and apparently your reading comprehension isn't too good either...
I think fear of printing is overblown. Most people won’t give a second thought to a hip bulge other than someone who understands CC.
I do front pocket carry. Works winter or summer. The only time I ever been made was by someone in the know, a work acquaintance and reserve sheriffs deputy. He just gave a knowing nod as I walked past him. People carry so much crap now with phones, wallets, chargers etc. I don't worry about printing. The only thing I do is make sure when I'm buying pants or shorts the pockets are deep enough to cover my guns.
My problem is I ain't got much ass so carrying one of the 1911s I'm constantly having to pull my pants up because they start sagging.
Suspenders Roger
Kahr PM 9 in a pocket holster is easy to conceal not very fast to draw from when seated in the truck though. Never even looked at a .380 because the Kahr is plenty small enough for me.
I'm all about retreat if possible but a bad knee and back have lowered the bar about what presents the possibility of grave harm to myself.
I had to justify my reasons for wanting a concealed carry license here and listed that orthopedic issues made run/hide difficult. No problem obtaining a CCL.
Don't associate with stupid people, don't get into stupid situations, don't make stupid choices. This will keep you from having to shoot people almost all the time. Unfortunately most on this board are truly screwed.
Printing is one thing, and I'd agree with others that the absolute vast majority of people, even in deep red areas wouldn't realize that bulge on my side is a gun and not my huge wrap around schlong.
With normal winter cloths, sometimes the bottom of my holster and barrel end are visible if sitting down, but again I seriously doubt most people would realize what it is.
In summer, when dressed like the slut that I am, my LCR 38 +P is in my front pocket. I dearly love that LCR but I do wish I could get my main carry piece better concealed. With just a T shirt and shorts on it is basically open carry. It is what it is.
My problem is I ain't got much ass so carrying one of the 1911s I'm constantly having to pull my pants up because they start sagging.
Suspenders Roger
Kahr PM 9 in a pocket holster is easy to conceal not very fast to draw from when seated in the truck though. Never even looked at a .380 because the Kahr is plenty small enough for me.
I'm all about retreat if possible but a bad knee and back have lowered the bar about what presents the possibility of grave harm to myself.
I had to justify my reasons for wanting a concealed carry license here and listed that orthopedic issues made run/hide difficult. No problem obtaining a CCL.
I think fear of printing is overblown. Most people won’t give a second thought to a hip bulge other than someone who understands CC.
Yep. Most dipschitts are too busy talking or texting on their damn cellphone to notice “printing”
And I couldn’t give two schitts if they do notice.
Wear either Carhartt or Riggs work shorts and a T-shirt mostly during the hot TX summers. Unless I’m going to a nice restaurant or a an event such as a funeral. And I can easily conceal a full sized Glock or 1911 with a good belt and holster. wearing shorts & a T-shirt. Always carry at least a 45 ACP or 357 Sig as my primary weapon. With 2 spare mags. Usually have a Sig P365 9mm or a Ruger LCP 380 in my Left front pocket as a BUG. When the Ruger LCP 380 is in my pocket, it’s loaded with the Buffalo Bore Hard Cast Outdoorsman Load.
And yes, awareness and avoidance can be good things. But I’m too old and stove up from too many horse wrecks and riding bulls when I was young and too dumb to know better. So running is not an option for me. Been carrying legally for 25 years. Never drawn my weapon. Common sense and awareness are your best tools besides for your handgun.
Best to avoid trouble if possible. Shooting someone is going to cause problems. I won't back away in my own home though. Anywhere else I would try to get away from trouble first and shoot second. I really don't want to have to shoot someone.
Don't associate with stupid people, don't get into stupid situations, don't make stupid choices.
Good advice. I don't look to get into a gun fight as they are dangerous. The problem here is drugs. How bad an addict needs a fix is far they'll take it. They are not rational.
To answer the main question though, I'd agree that escaping is the preferred option if possible, but that isn't to say turning your back on an aggressor. Shooting to slow wouldn't even cross my mind. Seems absolutely ridiculous to me. A lot of folks who swear they'd stand their ground on principle even if escaping was a viable option would impress me if they kept their word, which I highly doubt most all would.
Avoiding the situation ahead of time is the best tactic. Since that dozen’t work 100% of the time, I choose to be prepared. You can avoid a lot of sheit, however, with a bit of pre planning, thinking, and paying attention to your surroundings. I cannot seem to beat this into my wife’s head. She insists on stumbling through this world completely oblivious to what takes place around her.
Most excellent and reasonable post, sir. Rittenhouse was 100% in the right to do what he did and I'm sure of the couch commandos here would love to have been him, but no thanks, I'd rather run than face having to hire an army of Yid lawyers to defend my ass,,,
Both great responses.
Sent my daughter out to Frontsite to get up to speed to CCW. Before they started serious shooting, they spent hours on situational awareness, avoiding trouble and firearms safety before they start their 800-1000 rounds of 2 in the center of mass and two in the forehead.
It was good training. If you can avoid trouble, do so. George Soros backed city DAs and uncertain juries can make your life hell and expensive even if you are in the right.
You guys in Texas want to wack some Mexican gang member and then face a jury full of Hispanics who get told that is they don’t vote to convict you their family will pay? Hell no!
Avoiding the situation ahead of time is the best tactic. Since that dozen’t work 100% of the time, I choose to be prepared. You can avoid a lot of sheit, however, with a bit of pre planning, thinking, and paying attention to your surroundings. I cannot seem to beat this into my wife’s head. She insists on stumbling through this world completely oblivious to what takes place around her.
That’s how most women go through life. And a lot of dumbass men too. Most of them have their eyes or ears glued to their damn cell phone. Completely oblivious to their surroundings or the people around them.
Avoiding the situation ahead of time is the best tactic. Since that dozen’t work 100% of the time, I choose to be prepared. You can avoid a lot of sheit, however, with a bit of pre planning, thinking, and paying attention to your surroundings. I cannot seem to beat this into my wife’s head. She insists on stumbling through this world completely oblivious to what takes place around her.
That’s how most women go through life. And a lot of dumbass men too. Most of them have their eyes or ears glued to their damn cell phone. Completely oblivious to their surroundings or the people around them.
Avoiding the situation ahead of time is the best tactic. Since that dozen’t work 100% of the time, I choose to be prepared. You can avoid a lot of sheit, however, with a bit of pre planning, thinking, and paying attention to your surroundings. I cannot seem to beat this into my wife’s head. She insists on stumbling through this world completely oblivious to what takes place around her.
That’s how most women go through life. And a lot of dumbass men too. Most of them have their eyes or ears glued to their damn cell phone. Completely oblivious to their surroundings or the people around them.
Yeah.
They're not the apex predator that you are.
LOL. Kinda like you chasing geese with a golf club. Or riding your man bun scooter to the liquor store. 😂🤪🤪😂
With respect to the OP I’ve never heard of the defensive philosophy of shoot to slow the would be killer down. With the potential cost and legal ramifications of killing someone in legitimate self defense I would avoid being a hothead and shooting at all cost short of saving my own life or families lives. If you absolutely have to shoot I wouldn’t be shooting to slow the threat.
I doubt that most attackers give a whole lot of prior thought to studying rather their potential victim is armed, if they do and think that you may be carrying they’ll probably find another victim rather than devise a way to get you unless they had a specific reason to want to get you. So long as your weapon isn’t overtly obvious I think you’re GTG. My go to CCW is a Glock 19x that I have no problem carrying discretely in summer weather. A good sturdy belt is key.
How about a couple real situations to stimulate the conversation-
Kyle Rittenhouse shot a guy to "slow him down" when he had a gun pointed at him at close range. He paid a heavy price both personally and financially but he came out of it above ground and doing okay now.
His situation wasn't all that different from a lot of the nights we had in Portland last year. Innocent people just trying to get home or to someplace in town and Antifa/BLM jumps out in the street and blocks their way, pulls people out of their vehicles, and starts kicking the crap out of them. This happened several times last summer in and around Portland and the police didn't do squat about it. No situational awareness would have prepared these people for this happening in an otherwise deserted area where there had been no problems before. IMO this is a case where you don't wait to assess, you start shooting until the area is clear or drive over people to get away- the ultimate defensive weapon is your car.
Last year in Portland an Antifa a-hole stopped a car on the I5 freeway during one of these little happenings. The Antifa dumbass decided to point his AR15 at the driver when he walked up to the truck. The driver- a CCW carrier- had his 9mm ready and unloaded on the guy at very close range, killing him in his tracks. The Grand Jury declined to indict due to self defense.
Every situation is different. Trust me, if I had the opportunity my .45 would be my full time carry weapon but it just doesn't work for me and I won't waste any more time explaining why. The question was- stand and shoot, run, or shoot to slow the attack to benefit escape... everything else has been beat to death on this site many times over...
How about a couple real situations to stimulate the conversation-
Kyle Rittenhouse shot a guy to "slow him down" when he had a gun pointed at him at close range. He paid a heavy price both personally and financially but he came out of it above ground and doing okay now.
His situation wasn't all that different from a lot of the nights we had in Portland last year. Innocent people just trying to get home or to someplace in town and Antifa/BLM jumps out in the street and blocks their way, pulls people out of their vehicles, and starts kicking the crap out of them. This happened several times last summer in and around Portland and the police didn't do squat about it. No situational awareness would have prepared these people for this happening in an otherwise deserted area where there had been no problems before. IMO this is a case where you don't wait to assess, you start shooting until the area is clear or drive over people to get away- the ultimate defensive weapon is your car.
Last year in Portland an Antifa a-hole stopped a car on the I5 freeway during one of these little happenings. The Antifa dumbass decided to point his AR15 at the driver when he walked up to the truck. The driver- a CCW carrier- had his 9mm ready and unloaded on the guy at very close range, killing him in his tracks. The Grand Jury declined to indict due to self defense.
Every situation is different. Trust me, if I had the opportunity my .45 would be my full time carry weapon but it just doesn't work for me and I won't waste any more time explaining why. The question was- stand and shoot, run, or shoot to slow the attack to benefit escape... everything else has been beat to death on this site many times over...
Rittenhouse didn’t deliberately shoot to slow his attackers down. He killed the first two and it just sort of worked out that he slowed the third one down. Sometimes wounding or even missing is enough to stop a threat but I wouldn’t shoot a gun at someone attempting to slow them down or miss.
A 9x19mm with good defensive ammo is every bit as lethal as a .45ACP. Sure any gun is a lot better than no gun but a 9mm is the sweet spot between concealable without giving up anything in stopping power.
I guess I don’t understand the question as far as “stand and shoot, run, or shoot to slow the attacker down.” If you can retreat safely it’s best to do so. If you can’t shoot to stop the threat. As a man if you’re in a situation with justifiable homicide odds are pretty good that the other man is shooting at you too and needs to be stopped ASAP not hopefully slowed down.
How about a couple real situations to stimulate the conversation-
Kyle Rittenhouse shot a guy to "slow him down" when he had a gun pointed at him at close range. He paid a heavy price both personally and financially but he came out of it above ground and doing okay now.
His situation wasn't all that different from a lot of the nights we had in Portland last year. Innocent people just trying to get home or to someplace in town and Antifa/BLM jumps out in the street and blocks their way, pulls people out of their vehicles, and starts kicking the crap out of them. This happened several times last summer in and around Portland and the police didn't do squat about it. No situational awareness would have prepared these people for this happening in an otherwise deserted area where there had been no problems before. IMO this is a case where you don't wait to assess, you start shooting until the area is clear or drive over people to get away- the ultimate defensive weapon is your car.
Last year in Portland an Antifa a-hole stopped a car on the I5 freeway during one of these little happenings. The Antifa dumbass decided to point his AR15 at the driver when he walked up to the truck. The driver- a CCW carrier- had his 9mm ready and unloaded on the guy at very close range, killing him in his tracks. The Grand Jury declined to indict due to self defense.
Every situation is different. Trust me, if I had the opportunity my .45 would be my full time carry weapon but it just doesn't work for me and I won't waste any more time explaining why. The question was- stand and shoot, run, or shoot to slow the attack to benefit escape... everything else has been beat to death on this site many times over...
A full size 1911 is easily concealed when wearing a pair of shorts and a tee shirt.
Small problem - last time this guy was seen, in public, in shorts and tee shirt was when we took the kids to Sea World. In 1993. And there is NO way I could conceal a 1911 .45 when in my summer plumage!
Didn’t read most of this and won’t. That said I have a couple of thoughts on topic. Turning your back on an aggressor is a bad idea. If you feel weird about whacking a piece of trash, well, at least disable them. Kneecaps or belly buttons are good targets. Plenty of time afterwards for a follow up shot if you change your mind.
While you’re at it study up on your state laws relevant to the subject.
A full size 1911 is easily concealed when wearing a pair of shorts and a tee shirt.
Small problem - last time this guy was seen, in public, in shorts and tee shirt was when we took the kids to Sea World. In 1993. And there is NO way I could conceal a 1911 .45 when in my summer plumage!
Besides cops or army guys here, anybody shot someone?
Yep, This past dec,, Meth head breaking into house.. 3 steps in he was cured 2 mid section 3 in the head and saved one for a twitch of any kind, at 5' 357 taurus,, carry it every where,open,,, 12ga on the counter with#00 ,,Sheriff and HWP took one look an said good job,,, Didnt think twice about it, dont think think about it now,, when you fuQ around ,you find out
Something I realized once that left me feeling pretty cold is the bad guys almost always have the option to draw first blood.
Back then I had a job handling and transporting very large sums of cash. I carried a holstered handgun, a .45 ACP, and spare magazine but was alone and in a non armored vehicle. On any day a seriously intent bad guy could have easily taken me out first, at their whim, with a minimum of planing and exposure, grabbed the money and disappeared in a minute or two.
You are tuned into something most guys refuse to see.
Guns, ammo, training, professional instruction, so many don't understand that you will be behind.
If you are head up and eyes open, you might possibly have a chance getting your mind running and not be surprised. Even then, you can't just shuck your blaster and start shooting. You have to let the situation develop to a point.
All the aforementioned prep will help you if you don't lock up, or get shot out of the box.
As a few others mentioned, your head is your best defense. Eyes, ears, brain. Avoid the situation, see it coming.
Years as a long haul driver, carrying a gun was not possible running 48 and Canada. Kinda glad I couldn't. Forced me to forget John Wayne and focus on prevention. Safety training was not just about docks and driving, The initial training included quite a bit of personal security. I'm grateful for it.
PS Despite the above, I struggle now. 20 years of living in a rural peaceful area has made me complacent. I catch myself not keeping proper awareness. It's easy in strange/dangerous places. It's much harder in familiar places.
I've been following several self defense sites for several years now and my views toward self defense with a handgun have changed significantly due to this.
The discussion on this site and most sites are that a carry weapon needs to be able to inflict a fatal impact or it isn't suitable for concealed carry. I can get behind this to a point- if you are in a situation where you actually have to use a gun to defend yourself the adrenaline is going to be like a faucet being opened up, your hands probably won't be steady, your brain will probably freeze unless you have practiced enough to have muscle memory to go through the motions, and the attacker is going to be advancing on you... in that case you want to end this as soon as possible . And when I am in a season where wearing enough clothing to cover up a larger weapon is feasible I prefer to do this, but....
Most of the self defense types these days advise two things in every case that I have seen- if you have the opportunity, run from the danger as quickly as your feet will carry you- and second, if you have to use your weapon shoot center mass and as accurately as possible even it it takes a little more time to aim and shoot. One or two well placed shots is way better than spraying shots everywhere and not hitting anything except bystanders, cars, etc....
Here is where I have modified my behavior and believe it is worth considering. During warm weather I seldom have sufficient clothing on to conceal my .45 ACP carry weapon so I often didn't carry in those conditions. I felt naked a lot of times and especially now with the homelessness problems and uptick in crime. So I started looking into what self defense really meant to me and basically what I realized is I need to slow down or stop an assailant, but not necessarily kill them. This had a major effect on my outlook on weapons choices and why I ended up purchasing a .380 for a carry weapon. I can carry it all the time and not feel it is going to show enough that I have to worry about some Karen going ballistic on me in public and it will get the job done. I have shifted my priorities to where I feel if I can land a couple shots center mass or in the head/neck area with a .380 or even a .22, it will be enough to stop or slow the attack enough for me to get proper distance or defend those around me. I'm pretty sure dumping a mag of .380 or .22 into somebody at relatively close range is going to give just about anyone a very bad day...
The whole point most of these self defense instructors seem to be getting across is the first objective is to get away from the threat as a first priority. Stopping the assailant and protecting yourself and others is secondary. And alerting the police given the time frame is way down the list once your adrenaline calms down a bit, hopefully...
I know there will be lots of back and forth on this... what do you think?
I think the advice you’ve been given is absurd and whoever gave it to you does not have the first fugking clue what they’re talking about.
I also (based on your warm weather comments) don’t think you’ve taken concealed carry seriously enough to have done it very often.
I’ve read some schit before but justifying a cartridge choice because it may not kill them as dead, and fear of being harassed by a woman for excessive printing has to be toward the top of the absurd heap.
So, you think your advice is any more credible? Give me a break.... and apparently your reading comprehension isn't too good either...
I don’t think my advice is more credible.
I know it is.
Killing me tonight. Jiggling my belly laughing 😂. Very good deflave-o-grams. Message delivered. My age & condition don’t think I’ll go for the wounding shot myself. Crippled guy be like zombie crawling toward me with one hand and teeth. And if I been smacked he could probably catch me. Have to shoot for the big part in the middle till they stop. If they die so be it.
Seriously? Shoot to slow? Where has that been taught and by whom?
Oregon.
Retards.
I suppose you guys read the Florida law as "Don't say gay" too, right?
The whole point wasn't to intentionally shoot to slow, but if you have to shoot and don't kill, at least your assailant (s) should be sufficiently subdued by just about any number of hits so you can escape to a safer place. My intention is to get away and to do the most damage to the assailant as possible, but if a hit with what you guys consider an insufficient round doesn't immediately incapacitate someone it will at the very least slow them down enough to stop the aggression or at least give you time and room to get away...
But hey, I've been around here long enough to know I should feel content that we got through around 20 responses before it went off the rails ....
Carry whatever reliable gun that you feel comfortable with but there are tons of videoed real life shoots showing guys being hit multiple times in the chest at point blank range and showing zero indication of being hit until they’re dead several seconds later. Given that and that in most cases legally justified homicide will mean that the other guy is literally trying to blow your brains out I’d want to be armed with a 9x19 and try to dump a mag in center mass as long as he were still standing. Slowing someone down that is trying to shoot you in the head isn’t what I’d be going for unless it’s the best that you can do.
Think I’d be better off hitting someone once or twice with something with real mustard on it, and putting said person DOWN, than dicking around hitting them again and again, or missing again and again, if they continued to pursue. But what do I know.
How about a couple real situations to stimulate the conversation-
Kyle Rittenhouse shot a guy to "slow him down" when he had a gun pointed at him at close range. He paid a heavy price both personally and financially but he came out of it above ground and doing okay now.
His situation wasn't all that different from a lot of the nights we had in Portland last year. Innocent people just trying to get home or to someplace in town and Antifa/BLM jumps out in the street and blocks their way, pulls people out of their vehicles, and starts kicking the crap out of them. This happened several times last summer in and around Portland and the police didn't do squat about it. No situational awareness would have prepared these people for this happening in an otherwise deserted area where there had been no problems before. IMO this is a case where you don't wait to assess, you start shooting until the area is clear or drive over people to get away- the ultimate defensive weapon is your car.
Last year in Portland an Antifa a-hole stopped a car on the I5 freeway during one of these little happenings. The Antifa dumbass decided to point his AR15 at the driver when he walked up to the truck. The driver- a CCW carrier- had his 9mm ready and unloaded on the guy at very close range, killing him in his tracks. The Grand Jury declined to indict due to self defense.
Every situation is different. Trust me, if I had the opportunity my .45 would be my full time carry weapon but it just doesn't work for me and I won't waste any more time explaining why. The question was- stand and shoot, run, or shoot to slow the attack to benefit escape... everything else has been beat to death on this site many times over...
Once you commit to shoot, you'd better be ready to kill them, it's the only right answer.
How about a couple real situations to stimulate the conversation-
Kyle Rittenhouse shot a guy to "slow him down" when he had a gun pointed at him at close range. He paid a heavy price both personally and financially but he came out of it above ground and doing okay now.
His situation wasn't all that different from a lot of the nights we had in Portland last year. Innocent people just trying to get home or to someplace in town and Antifa/BLM jumps out in the street and blocks their way, pulls people out of their vehicles, and starts kicking the crap out of them. This happened several times last summer in and around Portland and the police didn't do squat about it. No situational awareness would have prepared these people for this happening in an otherwise deserted area where there had been no problems before. IMO this is a case where you don't wait to assess, you start shooting until the area is clear or drive over people to get away- the ultimate defensive weapon is your car.
Last year in Portland an Antifa a-hole stopped a car on the I5 freeway during one of these little happenings. The Antifa dumbass decided to point his AR15 at the driver when he walked up to the truck. The driver- a CCW carrier- had his 9mm ready and unloaded on the guy at very close range, killing him in his tracks. The Grand Jury declined to indict due to self defense.
Every situation is different. Trust me, if I had the opportunity my .45 would be my full time carry weapon but it just doesn't work for me and I won't waste any more time explaining why. The question was- stand and shoot, run, or shoot to slow the attack to benefit escape... everything else has been beat to death on this site many times over...
Once you commit to shoot, you'd better be ready to kill them, it's the only right answer.
Never say you were shooting to kill. The correct answer is shooting to "immediately incapacitate".
I'm a big guy, 6'2", 275lbs, haven't had a "butt" for decades now (I'm 69 ha). I carry the Glock 23 in a Kydex IWB holster with a good, stiff leather, purpose made Gun Belt. I have a local made 1 1/2" leather gun belt for cargo shorts/jeans a a 1" black leather (Galco) for dress suit pants. I carried a full sized 1911 for over 20yrs with the same set up, except a good leather IWB until the Kydex became stout enough to trust. Avoid all cheap "chicken skin" IWB "Uncle Mike" kind of stuff. If you use a thumb strap, have every holster with a thumb strap. If open top, all open top...muscle memory. The Buffalo Bore +P 100gr hard cast is a real penetrator in the .380...just saying.
I feel your pain. Got out of the shower one day, looked in the bathroom mirror and my butt was gone. Whoever took it left 2 stacks of half cooked pancakes and I haven’t been the same since. I’m 6’ and 185 lbs and even with the pancakes I manage to carry a G23 regularly. Sometimes a G17. I dress around them. If I’m the victim of a violent attack I want to have sufficient rounds and sufficient power to walk away when it’s over. I carry a .380 a small percentage of the time only when the situation demands something as easy to conceal as a pocket knife.
gunner500 says the phillips head penetrators will make the .380 a pretty good nail gun. May have to load some.
I'm making sure where my wife is and getting behind her. A .410 is bad azz and she shoots is fairly well. Just because you can shoot someone in self defense doesn't mean you should. I had a cop tell me that a few months ago when a punk pulled a knife on me.
Besides cops or army guys here, anybody shot someone?
Yep, This past dec,, Meth head breaking into house.. 3 steps in he was cured 2 mid section 3 in the head and saved one for a twitch of any kind, at 5' 357 taurus,, carry it every where,open,,, 12ga on the counter with#00 ,,Sheriff and HWP took one look an said good job,,, Didnt think twice about it, dont think think about it now,, when you fuQ around ,you find out
Thanks hosfly. That is real world experience contributed to this thread.
My problem is I ain't got much ass so carrying one of the 1911s I'm constantly having to pull my pants up because they start sagging.
Suspenders Roger
Kahr PM 9 in a pocket holster is easy to conceal not very fast to draw from when seated in the truck though. Never even looked at a .380 because the Kahr is plenty small enough for me.
I'm all about retreat if possible but a bad knee and back have lowered the bar about what presents the possibility of grave harm to myself.
I had to justify my reasons for wanting a concealed carry license here and listed that orthopedic issues made run/hide difficult. No problem obtaining a CCL.
A health issue got you a CCL in California?
🦫
Glorious isn't it? People put some strange reasons and still get a CHL. The CHL deputy told us a woman simply stated she lived in a known and notoriously bad neighborhood and got hers.
Besides cops or army guys here, anybody shot someone?
Yep, This past dec,, Meth head breaking into house.. 3 steps in he was cured 2 mid section 3 in the head and saved one for a twitch of any kind, at 5' 357 taurus,, carry it every where,open,,, 12ga on the counter with#00 ,,Sheriff and HWP took one look an said good job,,, Didnt think twice about it, dont think think about it now,, when you fuQ around ,you find out
Thanks hosfly. That is real world experience contributed to this thread.
And as valid as hosfly’s post is in many conversations of self and home defense, in the context of the original post it’s not salient. As stated, his situation explicitly references open carry, and in his home.
Though it answers your question, it does not reference the scenario as put forth in the OP.
Seriously? Shoot to slow? Where has that been taught and by whom?
Oregon.
Retards.
I suppose you guys read the Florida law as "Don't say gay" too, right?
The whole point wasn't to intentionally shoot to slow, but if you have to shoot and don't kill, at least your assailant (s) should be sufficiently subdued by just about any number of hits so you can escape to a safer place. My intention is to get away and to do the most damage to the assailant as possible, but if a hit with what you guys consider an insufficient round doesn't immediately incapacitate someone it will at the very least slow them down enough to stop the aggression or at least give you time and room to get away...
But hey, I've been around here long enough to know I should feel content that we got through around 20 responses before it went off the rails ....
What you're describing (and alleging was advised by some form of "instructor") is that by demonstrating you have a gun in your hand, and that gun going bang, you are going to dissuade a potential perpetrator from continuing on their present course so that you can boot shuffle your way back to someplace safe.
From there you are insinuating that cartridge and firearm selection is a non-factor because it's going to be used like a pack of Black Cats.
That is absolutely absurd.
The firearm is not there to dissuade people so you can run away. The firearm is there to protect you from people that are going to kill you or others or cause egregious levels of harm to you and others.
If they are doing that, they need to be shot. If they are not doing that, the presence of a firearm should not be a factor.
My problem is I ain't got much ass so carrying one of the 1911s I'm constantly having to pull my pants up because they start sagging.
Suspenders Roger
Kahr PM 9 in a pocket holster is easy to conceal not very fast to draw from when seated in the truck though. Never even looked at a .380 because the Kahr is plenty small enough for me.
I'm all about retreat if possible but a bad knee and back have lowered the bar about what presents the possibility of grave harm to myself.
I have been wearing suspenders for a long time, since my belly is bigger than my hips, and my pants work down even with empty pockets. I used to wear a belt along with the suspenders, to carry a folding knife in a sheath, but learned that suspenders alone work better. With the belt on, when you bend over or squat, you will pull your pants down some, and the belt will keep the suspenders from pulling them back up when when you stand. miles
If that is not possible, only then stand your ground.
I feel a little bit bad for you guys that live in those commie States... hunkering and hiding from government-sponsored thugs.
yeah, in this state if you are white, you have less rights as the victim and respond to the threat, than the perp who was making the threat...
another reason I don't carry in Oregon although open carry is legal... is where I live, there are too many candidates that would tempt you to erase them from society... because that is what they need to happen to them. That is why when I hear about another Meth Head overdosing himself, to me its another victory for decent society.
Avoiding the situation ahead of time is the best tactic. Since that dozen’t work 100% of the time, I choose to be prepared. You can avoid a lot of sheit, however, with a bit of pre planning, thinking, and paying attention to your surroundings. I cannot seem to beat this into my wife’s head. She insists on stumbling through this world completely oblivious to what takes place around her.
Wise words here. Was up in Tennessee Ridge last evening to extol the troops at a new TFA Chapter meeting. Pretty drive by the way, that run from I 40 up 13 to Erin is curvy, but I swear I saw my taillights in front of me after the cut off to get to the restaurant...some banjo music too.
Once I get there, quaint little place that is evidently an old house cut up into rooms, we are in the back. I walk through the room and never check up to that door in the far wall. Nice young lady ask me if I am looking for something as I open it and peer about, "A way out" I reply. She seemed confused and said "You just got here?", I replied I might want to come back someday.
Always make sure you can get out of what you got into.
Besides cops or army guys here, anybody shot someone?
Yep, This past dec,, Meth head breaking into house.. 3 steps in he was cured 2 mid section 3 in the head and saved one for a twitch of any kind, at 5' 357 taurus,, carry it every where,open,,, 12ga on the counter with#00 ,,Sheriff and HWP took one look an said good job,,, Didnt think twice about it, dont think think about it now,, when you fuQ around ,you find out
Thanks hosfly. That is real world experience contributed to this thread.
And as valid as hosfly’s post is in many conversations of self and home defense, in the context of the original post it’s not salient. As stated, his situation explicitly references open carry, and in his home.
Though it answers your question, it does not reference the scenario as put forth in the OP.
my post was a reply to a specific question BGG. My opinion is you can’t have enough power in your firearm when the situation requires.
Once you commit to shoot, you'd better be ready to kill them, it's the only right answer.
I intend to give 'em one in the dick first. My hope would be that would stop them and they'd spend the rest of their life sexually frustrated and pissing through a hole in their lower abdomen.
Almost got car jacked right before last xmas. Sitting at red light about 630am on way to work. Noticed a guy with no shirt on running up behind the truck, came around side and tried to open my door handle. I gunned it to the right, luckily, no cars were in the right lanes....I didn't have time to look. Looked back and the guy had opened the drivers side door on the vehicle that was in front of me and they were fighting back and forth with the door.
I didn't know if he was armed or not, didn't have time to look. I would certainly think I had a reason to kill him if I decided to, something I've thought about a lot. But I'm not certain. Being aware and gunning it was probably the best thing, and certainly got me out of the situation.
The guy was actually arrested about 15minutes later, told police he was trying to escape from the FBI that was out to kill him.
I pulled a gun on a cop once, woman, I got it back in my pocket before she saw it. Stupid untrained girl had no business being a cop. Doorbell rang in middle of night, I look through windows, no one there, no vehicle, etc. I grab my gun and go outside. Get out to around the carport and see someone in all black looking over my back fence. I finally got close enough I saw the belt with all the crap on it. Couldnt imagine what might have happened if she had seen me with a gun in my hand or my hand going in/out of my pocket. She turned around and wanted to start some crap about me shooting fireworks. Said she could see it from a mile away, somehow through a bunch of trees, several subdivisions and apartment complexes. BS story, she was parked down the street which was why I never saw the cop car. A bad guy could have easily capped her ass.
Once you commit to shoot, you'd better be ready to kill them, it's the only right answer.
I intend to give 'em one in the dick first. My hope would be that would stop them and they'd spend the rest of their life sexually frustrated and pissing through a hole in their lower abdomen.
I pulled a gun on a cop once, woman, I got it back in my pocket before she saw it. Stupid untrained girl had no business being a cop. Doorbell rang in middle of night, I look through windows, no one there, no vehicle, etc. I grab my gun and go outside. Get out to around the carport and see someone in all black looking over my back fence. I finally got close enough I saw the belt with all the crap on it. Couldnt imagine what might have happened if she had seen me with a gun in my hand or my hand going in/out of my pocket. She turned around and wanted to start some crap about me shooting fireworks. Said she could see it from a mile away, somehow through a bunch of trees, several subdivisions and apartment complexes. BS story, she was parked down the street which was why I never saw the cop car. A bad guy could have easily capped her ass.
And a perp/s could've easily capped your ass while you're wandering around in the dark and then rape and pillage your house hold at their leisure.
Don't associate with stupid people, don't get into stupid situations, don't make stupid choices. This will keep you from having to shoot people almost all the time. Unfortunately most on this board are truly screwed.
Because un armed innocent bystanders never get killed right?
I only had to pull on a guy one time. Case of mistaken identity. He thought I was an ex-mayor that he apparently had a major beef with. He popped up as I was going into pay for my gas. I told him he had the wrong guy. He kept while I pumped my gas and continues when I went to get my change. I got back to my car and my wife asked what that was all about and I told her it was some nut case who thought I was somebody else. Next thing I know he's banging on my car threatening to kill me. I took my 9MM I had at the time and finally convinced him that if I had to exit the vehicle he would be meeting God. He finally got the message. Still haven't figured out how I was able to drive home before I started shaking. A few years later there was an article on the front page about an ex-mayor that was apparently very popular and his picture was on the front page. I showed it to to my wife and damn me, we could have been identical twins, beard and all. No wonder the guy though I was him. Paul B.
I'm making sure where my wife is and getting behind her. A .410 is bad azz and she shoots is fairly well. Just because you can shoot someone in self defense doesn't mean you should. I had a cop tell me that a few months ago when a punk pulled a knife on me.
My uncle had a few problems with a neighbor of his for awhile. The neighbor called the cops and the cop talked to each of them separately. He told my uncle "if it gets to deep and you think he's gonna kill you or your family, just kill him". "Less paperwork for me".
I only had to pull on a guy one time. Case of mistaken identity. He thought I was an ex-mayor that he apparently had a major beef with. He popped up as I was going into pay for my gas. I told him he had the wrong guy. He kept while I pumped my gas and continues when I went to get my change. I got back to my car and my wife asked what that was all about and I told her it was some nut case who thought I was somebody else. Next thing I know he's banging on my car threatening to kill me. I took my 9MM I had at the time and finally convinced him that if I had to exit the vehicle he would be meeting God. He finally got the message. Still haven't figured out how I was able to drive home before I started shaking. A few years later there was an article on the front page about an ex-mayor that was apparently very popular and his picture was on the front page. I showed it to to my wife and damn me, we could have been identical twins, beard and all. No wonder the guy though I was him. Paul B.
He was in his rights to kill you once you brandished a firearm. Don’t brandish a firearm just because, draw and fire until the threat is eliminated. It doesn’t sound like you were in your legal rights to draw your gun unless you were in fear for you or your wife’s lives. If you were , accept my apology.
I only had to pull on a guy one time. Case of mistaken identity. He thought I was an ex-mayor that he apparently had a major beef with. He popped up as I was going into pay for my gas. I told him he had the wrong guy. He kept while I pumped my gas and continues when I went to get my change. I got back to my car and my wife asked what that was all about and I told her it was some nut case who thought I was somebody else. Next thing I know he's banging on my car threatening to kill me. I took my 9MM I had at the time and finally convinced him that if I had to exit the vehicle he would be meeting God. He finally got the message. Still haven't figured out how I was able to drive home before I started shaking. A few years later there was an article on the front page about an ex-mayor that was apparently very popular and his picture was on the front page. I showed it to to my wife and damn me, we could have been identical twins, beard and all. No wonder the guy though I was him. Paul B.
He was in his rights to kill you once you brandished a firearm. Don’t brandish a firearm just because, draw and fire until the threat is eliminated. It doesn’t sound like you were in your legal rights to draw your gun unless you were in fear for you or your wife’s lives. If you were , accept my apology.
No law states that once you pull a weapon you must use it. Situation changes. If someone asked me I'd state exactly "man was badgering me, attacked my vehicle. I was in fear for my life. Pulled my weapon, he stopped" - zero laws broken and no, he has no "right" to shoot you just because you have a weapon.
I only had to pull on a guy one time. Case of mistaken identity. He thought I was an ex-mayor that he apparently had a major beef with. He popped up as I was going into pay for my gas. I told him he had the wrong guy. He kept while I pumped my gas and continues when I went to get my change. I got back to my car and my wife asked what that was all about and I told her it was some nut case who thought I was somebody else. Next thing I know he's banging on my car threatening to kill me. I took my 9MM I had at the time and finally convinced him that if I had to exit the vehicle he would be meeting God. He finally got the message. Still haven't figured out how I was able to drive home before I started shaking. A few years later there was an article on the front page about an ex-mayor that was apparently very popular and his picture was on the front page. I showed it to to my wife and damn me, we could have been identical twins, beard and all. No wonder the guy though I was him. Paul B.
He was in his rights to kill you once you brandished a firearm. Don’t brandish a firearm just because, draw and fire until the threat is eliminated. It doesn’t sound like you were in your legal rights to draw your gun unless you were in fear for you or your wife’s lives. If you were , accept my apology.
No law states that once you pull a weapon you must use it. Situation changes. If someone asked me I'd state exactly "man was badgering me, attacked my vehicle. I was in fear for my life. Pulled my weapon, he stopped" - zero laws broken and no, he has no "right" to shoot you just because you have a weapon.
I only had to pull on a guy one time. Case of mistaken identity. He thought I was an ex-mayor that he apparently had a major beef with. He popped up as I was going into pay for my gas. I told him he had the wrong guy. He kept while I pumped my gas and continues when I went to get my change. I got back to my car and my wife asked what that was all about and I told her it was some nut case who thought I was somebody else. Next thing I know he's banging on my car threatening to kill me. I took my 9MM I had at the time and finally convinced him that if I had to exit the vehicle he would be meeting God. He finally got the message. Still haven't figured out how I was able to drive home before I started shaking. A few years later there was an article on the front page about an ex-mayor that was apparently very popular and his picture was on the front page. I showed it to to my wife and damn me, we could have been identical twins, beard and all. No wonder the guy though I was him. Paul B.
He was in his rights to kill you once you brandished a firearm. Don’t brandish a firearm just because, draw and fire until the threat is eliminated. It doesn’t sound like you were in your legal rights to draw your gun unless you were in fear for you or your wife’s lives. If you were , accept my apology.
No law states that once you pull a weapon you must use it. Situation changes. If someone asked me I'd state exactly "man was badgering me, attacked my vehicle. I was in fear for my life. Pulled my weapon, he stopped" - zero laws broken and no, he has no "right" to shoot you just because you have a weapon.
FFS.
It’s aggravated assault but OK
Pulling your roscoe on a dude acting aggressively at your vehicle window is not aggravated assault. Who told you that?
I only had to pull on a guy one time. Case of mistaken identity. He thought I was an ex-mayor that he apparently had a major beef with. He popped up as I was going into pay for my gas. I told him he had the wrong guy. He kept while I pumped my gas and continues when I went to get my change. I got back to my car and my wife asked what that was all about and I told her it was some nut case who thought I was somebody else. Next thing I know he's banging on my car threatening to kill me. I took my 9MM I had at the time and finally convinced him that if I had to exit the vehicle he would be meeting God. He finally got the message. Still haven't figured out how I was able to drive home before I started shaking. A few years later there was an article on the front page about an ex-mayor that was apparently very popular and his picture was on the front page. I showed it to to my wife and damn me, we could have been identical twins, beard and all. No wonder the guy though I was him. Paul B.
He was in his rights to kill you once you brandished a firearm. Don’t brandish a firearm just because, draw and fire until the threat is eliminated. It doesn’t sound like you were in your legal rights to draw your gun unless you were in fear for you or your wife’s lives. If you were , accept my apology.
No law states that once you pull a weapon you must use it. Situation changes. If someone asked me I'd state exactly "man was badgering me, attacked my vehicle. I was in fear for my life. Pulled my weapon, he stopped" - zero laws broken and no, he has no "right" to shoot you just because you have a weapon.
FFS.
It’s aggravated assault but OK
Pulling your roscoe on a dude acting aggressively at your vehicle window is not aggravated assault. Who told you that?
Never say you were shooting to kill. The correct answer is shooting to "immediately incapacitate".
Or "stop the threat". Massad Ayoob cited this example on that cop that shot someone in the wrong apartment thinking it was her own. When asked did you "shoot to kill" she said yes and apparently that was a huge mistake
Avoiding the situation ahead of time is the best tactic. Since that dozen’t work 100% of the time, I choose to be prepared. You can avoid a lot of sheit, however, with a bit of pre planning, thinking, and paying attention to your surroundings. I cannot seem to beat this into my wife’s head. She insists on stumbling through this world completely oblivious to what takes place around her.
Early reply is the best. And yeah, its near impossible to find a woman who can grasp the concept of situational awareness.
Pulling your roscoe on a dude acting aggressively at your vehicle window is not aggravated assault. Who told you that?
Just the state of TN
Good thing he's from Arizona and not from Tennessee then isn't it ? You need to move to a real state
Turns out it’s a aggravated assault in Arizona also.
Moral of the story: when you’re within your rights to protect yourself or family with deadly force, just do it. Don’t just aim at the bad guy or show off your weapon.
Pulling your roscoe on a dude acting aggressively at your vehicle window is not aggravated assault. Who told you that?
Just the state of TN
Good thing he's from Arizona and not from Tennessee then isn't it ? You need to move to a real state
Turns out it’s a aggravated assault in Arizona also.
Moral of the story: when you’re within your rights to protect yourself or family with deadly force, just do it. Don’t just aim at the bad guy or show off your weapon.
Bullshît. Hes in his car. Dude comes up banging on his car acting aggressively. After dude confronted him while he was pumping gas. He shows dude his gun and says fûck off. He leaves.
No way in that scenario did he commit aggravated assault.
Also, that is horrible advice. You are not obligated to shoot just because to show or pull your weapon. De-escalation is a thing…..
Ive had a few situations where deadly force was within seconds of being an option but THANK GOD it never came to that. In none of those cases did the aggressor ever know what my next step would have been. My Dad, on the other hand was "old school" and had no problem letting thugs know he had a gun. In one instance he caught a doped up [bleep] trying to ram his truck through a gate onto our property. Instead of just killing the bastard then and there, he pulled his pistol out and ran the guy off only to be called by the sheriff 30 minutes later telling him he need to come post his bond! Dopehead called the law and took out a warrant for assault with a deadly weapon. I made it a point to be at the court date, dopehead completely unaware who I was or that I was there. Turns out he was on parole and by the time my Dads lawyer got done with him he weas happy just to walk out and not go to jail himself. Dad is gone now but for 40 years I tried to drill it in his head to NOT WAVE THAT DAMN GUN AROUND!
Situational awareness first, distance first and a half. Only if there's no escape or bullets already flying should metal clear leather. That said, I don't know what I'd do if there was gunfire and I was seeing victims fall. But I have run toward other dangers, so I hope I do the right thing and can live with the consequences.
Pulling your roscoe on a dude acting aggressively at your vehicle window is not aggravated assault. Who told you that?
Just the state of TN
Good thing he's from Arizona and not from Tennessee then isn't it ? You need to move to a real state
Turns out it’s a aggravated assault in Arizona also.
Moral of the story: when you’re within your rights to protect yourself or family with deadly force, just do it. Don’t just aim at the bad guy or show off your weapon.
Sorry, but you're wrong on this and you've been wrong throughout this entire thread.
As a landlord for 20+ years, I've run into situations. I've had 5 where an aggressor got to see my gun. More than once, cops were called or informed after the fact. They didn't bat an eye. In every instance, I was in a position where I could have instantly needed to discharge the weapon.
But hey. It's the Free State of Florida. Not Commiefornia or Potland.
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