DETROIT — The parents of a teenager who killed four students at a Michigan high school can face trial for involuntary manslaughter, the state appeals court said Thursday in a groundbreaking case of criminal responsibility for the acts of a child.

The murders would not have happened if the parents hadn't purchased a gun for Ethan Crumbley or if they had taken him home from Oxford High School on the day of the shooting, when staff became alarmed about his extreme drawings, the appeals court said.

The court noted that the legal threshold at this stage of the case is fairly low under Michigan law.

"Whether a jury actually finds that causation has been proven after a full trial, where the record will almost surely be more expansive — including evidence produced by defendants — is an issue separate from what we decide today," the court said in a 3-0 opinion.

James and Jennifer Crumbley are accused of failing to secure a gun and ignoring the mental health needs of their son before the shootings. Besides the deaths of four students, seven people were wounded.

Crumbley, 16, has pleaded guilty to terrorism and murder and could be sentenced to life in prison without parole. He was 15 at the time of the November 2021 shooting.

Attorneys for the parents insist that what would happen that day was not foreseeable. They acknowledge that bad decisions were made but not ones that should rise to involuntary manslaughter charges.

Judge Michael Riordan said parents shouldn't be hauled to court for "subpar, odd or eccentric" care of their kids. But the evidence against the Crumbleys, he added, is much more serious.

"The morning of the shooting, EC drew a picture of a body that appeared to have two bullet holes in the torso, apparently with blood streaming out of them, which was near another drawing of a handgun that resembled the gun his parents ... had very recently gifted to him," Riordan said.

It was "visual evidence" that Ethan was contemplating gunshot wounds on someone, the judge said.

The Crumbleys were summoned to school for a meeting about the drawing, but didn't take Ethan home.

The parents' lawyers declined to comment Thursday, citing a gag order. They'll likely ask the Michigan Supreme Court to review the case, particularly because that court had ordered the appeals court to hear arguments.

But if he wants his nuts cut off, his parents probably have no say in the matter.

But if he wants his nuts cut off, his parents probably have no say in the matter.

A MI jury, they are toast.

I’m may get roasted over this but the parents are complete scumbags in this and absolutely [bleep] the bed. The school resource officer and staff were incompetent as well.

Are you guys serious?

Parents buy their already troubled 15 year old a handgun and give it to him to keep and store with no restrictions on it?

I gave my kid a gun pellet gun when he was 8. Yes, it was "his" but it was fugging well locked up where he couldn't get it when he wasn't using it under my supervision.

Give your fugging heads a shake.

I too think the parents were indeed reckless. Holding an individual responsible for the actions of another, however, is too much of a stretch in my book.

I'm fine with such where one is a participant though. I.e. driving the getaway car or standing watch as crimes are committed.

What do you know about this case? Just generalities, ginned up by the prosecutor?
I wouldn't trust anything put out by the MSM on this. It reminds me too much of a guy having a "Take a number" hand grenade display, getting raised, and the news saying he had a possible destructive device explosive.

Exactly.

The parents may well be dimwits but they didn’t pull the trigger and didn’t expect their child to either. As someone else said if they’re going to charge these parents they need to start charging the parents of every gangbanger in Detroit and Chicago too.

No joke. WTF is wrong with this place?

Yup, they're a dumpster fire +P. Now if only they'd go after the parents of negros who bring weapons to school.

He’s from Canada they don’t have nor understand that whole “Shall Not Be Infringed” thing up there.

Michigan folks, help me out with some info before I comment on this subject.

A: Is it legal for a 15 year old minor to possess a handgun in MI? While not under direct supervision of an adult or guardian?

B: Is there a negligent homicide crime in MI? Or something substantially similar?

C: Can a negligent act in MI rise to the level of manslaughter?



Were I to be empaneled on a jury in MI, these are questions I would want answered before I could decide any type of verdict.

How old do I have to be in order to legally own a pistol in Michigan?MCL 28.422 Eighteen (18) years of age. However, Federal law prohibits a federally licensed firearms dealer from selling a pistol to anyone under the age of twenty-one (21).

A: Is it legal for a 15 year old minor to possess a handgun in MI? While not under direct supervision of an adult or guardian?

This is one of those debates over a ruling that could be 'very' justified in some cases and not at all in others.

One thing is for certain, going forward it'd be applied to all the wrong cases.

In one of the older school shooting cases the kid had broken into his Grandfather's gun safe to aquire the guns used.

Should the Grandfather be prosecuted because the kid was able to defeat the Grandfather's gun safe?

It'll be Pandora's box once opened.

Exactly.

The parents may well be dimwits but they didn’t pull the trigger and didn’t expect their child to either. As someone else said if they’re going to charge these parents they need to start charging the parents of every gangbanger in Detroit and Chicago too.

Shall not be infringed is pretty straightforward.

The question is, did they take all reasonable precautions in the circumstances? I'd say the grandfather did.

Sure, but that won't stop someone from attempting to prosecute such an individual by pointing at this case for example.

If not held responsible will these Michigan parents do this again?
Probably not.

If held responsible and prosecuted will other ill-responsible parents become responsible parents?
Probably not.

I see nothing to gain but plenty to loose.

Is a 15 year old "the people"?

Heller doesn't seem to say so:
https://harvardlawreview.org/wp-content/uploads/pdfs/vol126_the_people_in_the_constitution.pdf

": Heller could be viewed as changing the meaning of “the
people” throughout the Bill of Rights by limiting “the people” to
“members of the political community,” which might be interpreted to
mean, inter alia, “eligible voters.”

Can 15 year old's vote?

In America even dead people can vote!

Until we get the corruption out of government and our government abides by our Constitution I’m not interested in 1 more bullshit gun law that is meant to INFRINGE on our rights!

I had all my firearms stored in MY room including my handgun when I was 12. They were MINE and I was RESPONSIBLE for them and their safe use. My respect for firearms was great and my safe handling of them was paramount. I have always loved guns, hunting and the outdoors but it’s because of my passion for those thing that I was always extremely safe. If I’d had a single mishap I’d have lost that privilege long ago but it was far far too important to me to retain my guns so safety was always my first, last and immediate concern.

We’ve become a society that values excuses and victimhood more than it values intelligence, preparedness or responsibility.

Rights come with responsibilities.

Would you fire a gun in the air haphazardly and when the cops show up because you killed a kid 5 blocks over just plead "Muh 2nd!!!"?

I’m may get roasted over this but the parents are complete scumbags in this and absolutely [bleep] the bed. The school resource officer and staff were incompetent as well.

I’m may get roasted over this but the parents are complete scumbags in this and absolutely [bleep] the bed. The school resource officer and staff were incompetent as well.

You've been conditioned to think of stupid schit like the above.

Firing a bullet into the air makes you not in control of the projectile, therefore negligence comes into play.

Yup, they're a dumpster fire +P. Now if only they'd go after the parents of negros who bring weapons to school.

Touché

Giving a mentally-ill 15 year old free access to a gun makes you not in control of the gun, therefore negligence comes into play.

Rights come with responsibilities.

Would you fire a gun in the air haphazardly and when the cops show up because you killed a kid 5 blocks over just plead "Muh 2nd!!!"?

Canada weighs into the conversation lol

Are you guys serious?

Parents buy their already troubled 15 year old a handgun and give it to him to keep and store with no restrictions on it?

I gave my kid a gun pellet gun when he was 8. Yes, it was "his" but it was fugging well locked up where he couldn't get it when he wasn't using it under my supervision.

Give your fugging heads a shake.

Canada weighs into the conversation lol

Oh, fuq off. Common sense doesn’t have [bleep] borders. Idiot.

In the case of Bobby Moore locally, who killed a Cop at age 14. It happened in the parking lot of our High School, when my kids were in Middle School.

His Mom was convicted of supplying the gun. Straw purchase conviction. She took the kid to a pawn shop. He sold his stereo. She used said $ to purchase 25 acp which he killed Cop with.

What jumps out at me in the OP is the State wants to prosecute parents for not removing child from school. When state agents neglected to have child removed from school.

Prosecute the parents for that action????? But fail to prosecute teacher, principal, resource officer?????????

The parents screwed up by not taking safety in to account.

Most kids with out any mental problems do not have pistols in their care ,in their room.

Should not be manslaughter but they should be charged with stupid with intent to be dumber.

No joke. WTF is wrong with this place?

You should change your name to wannabeamerican. Few things are as ridiculous as foreigners opining on American domestic policy.

Literally, unless you are a U.S. citizen you have no voice in this conversation

If you give your kid or minor teenager a firearm and they subsequently commit murder with it then yep, as a parent IMHO you are criminally liable.

If you give your kid a handgun at age twelve or whatever and he never shoots himself or anyone then you ain’t. Giving the kid a gun was a decision you made and you are responsible for the outcome of that decision.

Sets precedence for a lot of "parents" of inner city kids, evreytime one is arrested with a gun, charge the parent....

What about "possession"?


In other words, can a 15 year old, even given his parents' permission, have possession of a handgun while not under the direct supervision of an adult?

In some states that, in and of itself, is a criminal act.