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Posted By: Jim in Idaho Vivek Ramaswamy - 12/15/23
Yeah, another thread about him. People keep asking who he is, what does he really stand for, yada yada. I just finished his book "Woke, Inc. Inside Corporate America's Social Justice Scam" published in August 2021, wherein he details exactly how wokeness is evil in a whole bunch of ways, how corporations have used it to further their own ends and gives some specific ways to combat it. Buried in the pages he explains implicitly and explicitly who he is and the things he holds to be important.

The last chapter is titled "Who Are We?", meaning who we are as Americans. Here is the slightly edited conclusion on pages 325-328, those parts I've skipped just make specific references to earlier chapters but don't change the thrust of his statements here:


"At our core, there are and always have been two distinctive ideals that define us as a nation. The first is the American Dream. The second is E Pluribus Unum -- the idea that from many, we Americans become one.

The American Dream is a dream of prosperity, freedom, and opportunity. It's the idea that no matter who your parents are, you can achieve your dreams through hard work, commitment and ingenuity...."

E Pluribus Unum is etched on every American coin, down to the penny. "From many, one." It's the idea that all of us as individuals, freely pursuing our own dreams, from a limitless variety of backgrounds, can unite into a single nation and pledge allegiance to the same flag and freely speak to one another even if they disagree about their politics.

Individualism and unity. Contradictory as these might seem they are each in America's heart. Most of us surely feel these two aspirations within ourselves. The desire for individual freedom and opportunity on the one hand and the desire to be part of something transcending ourselves on the other. America isn't just one of those things. It's both of them.

Our best shot at making the American Dream real is through capitalism. Our best shot at making E Pluribus Unum real is through democracy. That's why capitalism and democracy are the mother and father of America. The year 1776 wasn't just an accident. It was the year of the Declaration of Independence and The Wealth of Nations. It was the year America was born.


...Our prosperity and individual freedom depend on the integrity of capitalism. Our unity and political freedoms depend on the integrity of democracy. With the birth of woke capitalism, we lose both and are left with neither. Wokeness turns E Pluribus Unum on its head -- "from many, one" to "from one, many". It perverts the American Dream into an American nightmare in which the characteristics you inherit at birth determine who you are and what you can achieve."...


In the end, America isn't a place at all. It's an idea. We call it the American Dream for a reason. It's not a destination that we reach; it's a vision we aspire to, one that we'll always fall short of but keep pursuing anyway. That's part of what it means to have a dream. But over the last decade, something very scary happened: we woke up. And once you wake up from a dream, you forget what it was all about. That's the real danger of wokeness.

We still have time to get this right. If the 2010s were about celebrating our diversity as individuals, then the 2020s should be about celebrating what we still share in common as people. They should be about reviving the ideals that bind us together as a nation. The American Dream. E Pluribus Unum. From many, one. We shouldn't let self-interested corporations and politicians exploit us with skin-deep identities and cheap social justice causes that they sell us to advance their own agendas. That's just their trick: divide and conquer America by making our shared ideals disappear. Our shared identity has disappeared right along with it.

...(talking about a magic trick from the beginning of the book) it's not enough to make something disappear. You have to bring it back. That's the defining challenge of our time, and it's the most important work we'll ever do as Americans."



It's a good summation of the book. He reminds me more and more of the children of immigrants from the 19th and early 20th centuries, full of idealism about America and what it should be. If you take it cynically then it sounds like a lot of the jingoism politicians use when they wrap themselves in the flag but the rest of the book logically leads up to this.

If you really want to know who the guy is you need to read his books. Or I guess you could just let me read them and report back here on what he says. wink In the next couple of days I'm going to start reading "Nation of Victims - Identity Politics, the Death of Merit, and the Path Back to Excellence".

Btw, the copyright notice in the front of Woke, Inc. says I'm not allowed to upload, publish etc. the material of the book except for review purposes so here's my book review: "It's a good book, I learned a lot from it and recommend it."
Posted By: steve4102 Re: Vivek Ramaswamy - 12/15/23
Thanks
Posted By: Phillip_Nesmith Re: Vivek Ramaswamy - 12/15/23
I like what I have seen about him so far.
Posted By: bluefish Re: Vivek Ramaswamy - 12/15/23
I read that book when it first came out. I do not believe America is redeemable this point and that is scary to think about.
Posted By: DigitalDan Re: Vivek Ramaswamy - 12/15/23
Dot heads annoy me. Himdu little in the new world other than to make a fortune in business. Graduate of HARVARD. laugh Speaks in many tongues. Do I trust him? Nope.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vivek_Ramaswamy
Posted By: The_Real_Hawkeye Re: Vivek Ramaswamy - 12/15/23
It's a shame that he thinks that our nation was founded as a democracy (It's a representative republic). All the rest sounds good.
Posted By: flintlocke Re: Vivek Ramaswamy - 12/15/23
Thanks for the post, love his message.....but for now I'll reserve judgement, I am more or less in Digit Dan's camp.
Posted By: Bristoe Re: Vivek Ramaswamy - 12/15/23
Originally Posted by DigitalDan
Dot heads annoy me. Himdu little in the new world other than to make a fortune in business. Graduate of HARVARD. laugh Speaks in many tongues. Do I trust him? Nope.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vivek_Ramaswamy

The article, boiled down, says that he's an anti woke successful capitalist Libertarian.
Posted By: Boogan1 Re: Vivek Ramaswamy - 12/15/23
He always seems to say exactly what he thinks we want to hear.
Posted By: Bristoe Re: Vivek Ramaswamy - 12/15/23
Originally Posted by Boogan1
He always seems to say exactly what he thinks we want to hear.

At the same time he's saying a lot of things that others *don't* want to hear,...including Nikki Haley and the deep state apparatus behind her.
Posted By: akrange Re: Vivek Ramaswamy - 12/15/23
He’s got Grit ..

He’s Extremely Intelligent..

Does He Believe in Good or is He a Demagogue..

He and Emanuel do share one thing their both Populist..

We know Emanuel MO

This Dude is Dark …

Dark is not to be Trusted in this Perilous Juncture between Good and the Wicked ..
Posted By: bluefish Re: Vivek Ramaswamy - 12/15/23
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
It's a shame that he thinks that our nation was founded as a democracy (It's a representative republic). All the rest sounds good.

Technically speaking we are a democratically elected constitutional representative republic. Or at least we were.
Posted By: rainshot Re: Vivek Ramaswamy - 12/15/23
Every time I hear the word “democracy “ my butt puckers. That’s Hillary’s battle cry. Pure democracy is “two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner “.
Posted By: kwg020 Re: Vivek Ramaswamy - 12/15/23
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
It's a shame that he thinks that our nation was founded as a democracy (It's a representative republic). All the rest sounds good.
The problem with the word "democracy" is that it covers so much territory and interpreted in so many ways. We are a "representative republic" but that is so specific and narrow. A concept that is apparently way too hard for folks to grasp. It takes away from their time at the mall or on fakebook with their friends.

kwg
Posted By: BCBH Re: Vivek Ramaswamy - 12/15/23
Hard pass on the 2 Pajeets running.
Posted By: steve4102 Re: Vivek Ramaswamy - 12/15/23
Originally Posted by Bristoe
Originally Posted by Boogan1
He always seems to say exactly what he thinks we want to hear.

At the same time he's saying a lot of things that others *don't* want to hear,...including Nikki Haley and the deep state apparatus behind her.
He is playing a very dangerous game, if he is sincere.
Posted By: Bristoe Re: Vivek Ramaswamy - 12/15/23
Originally Posted by steve4102
Originally Posted by Bristoe
Originally Posted by Boogan1
He always seems to say exactly what he thinks we want to hear.

At the same time he's saying a lot of things that others *don't* want to hear,...including Nikki Haley and the deep state apparatus behind her.
He is playing a very dangerous game, if he is sincere.

Vivek isn't actually running for President in 2024. He's establishing the narrative that Gen Z will have to adopt if it plans on re-establishing a free America.

Most of it is familiar to us old folks. But Gen Z has never heard it before. Gen Z has come of age in a completely different culture than us old folks grew up in.

Vivek is telling Gen Z "old truths". He's presenting them with the alternative to the woke lies that they have been bombarded with since birth.
Posted By: 45_100 Re: Vivek Ramaswamy - 12/15/23
Originally Posted by Bristoe
Originally Posted by steve4102
Originally Posted by Bristoe
Originally Posted by Boogan1
He always seems to say exactly what he thinks we want to hear.

At the same time he's saying a lot of things that others *don't* want to hear,...including Nikki Haley and the deep state apparatus behind her.
He is playing a very dangerous game, if he is sincere.

Vivek isn't actually running for President in 2024. He's establishing the narrative that Gen Z will have to adopt if it plans on re-establishing a free America.

Most of it is familiar to us old folks. But Gen Z has never heard it before. Gen Z has come of age in a completely different culture than us old folks grew up in.

Vivek is telling Gen Z "old truths". He's presenting them with the alternative to the work lies that they have been bombarded with since birth.

“America is not a place, it’s a dream”

Yes, he is talking to the youngest generations.
Posted By: Dutch Re: Vivek Ramaswamy - 12/15/23
There has been a constant drum beat aimed at the younger generations that "the American Dream is no longer attainable".

That's the foundation of the Lies of the Left.
Posted By: Calvin Re: Vivek Ramaswamy - 12/15/23
Originally Posted by Dutch
There has been a constant drum beat aimed at the younger generations that "the American Dream is no longer attainable".

That's the foundation of the Lies of the Left.

Agreed.
Posted By: steve4102 Re: Vivek Ramaswamy - 12/15/23
Originally Posted by Bristoe
Originally Posted by steve4102
Originally Posted by Bristoe
Originally Posted by Boogan1
He always seems to say exactly what he thinks we want to hear.

At the same time he's saying a lot of things that others *don't* want to hear,...including Nikki Haley and the deep state apparatus behind her.
He is playing a very dangerous game, if he is sincere.

Vivek isn't actually running for President in 2024. He's establishing the narrative that Gen Z will have to adopt if it plans on re-establishing a free America.

Most of it is familiar to us old folks. But Gen Z has never heard it before. Gen Z has come of age in a completely different culture than us old folks grew up in.

Vivek is telling Gen Z "old truths". He's presenting them with the alternative to the woke lies that they have been bombarded with since birth.
In an attempt to undo decades of left wing indoctrination of our youth.

Again, Very dangerous game.
Posted By: Jim in Idaho Re: Vivek Ramaswamy - 12/15/23
Originally Posted by kwg020
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
It's a shame that he thinks that our nation was founded as a democracy (It's a representative republic). All the rest sounds good.
The problem with the word "democracy" is that it covers so much territory and interpreted in so many ways. We are a "representative republic" but that is so specific and narrow. A concept that is apparently way too hard for folks to grasp. It takes away from their time at the mall or on fakebook with their friends.

kwg
Yes. Don't get hung up on one narrow definition of the word "democracy", as in two wolves and a sheep democracy. He uses the term broadly to mean citizen self-rule of a country as directly opposed to one person or one group of "elites" dictating policy to everyone else, which is what we have today and the thing he is preaching hard against.

Folks can like him, not like him, believe him, not believe him, agree with him or disagree with him for whatever reason they want. That's what's allowed in a free country.

I just kept seeing posts wondering what he believed and the last few pages of this book seemed to be a good synopsis of his core belief. I'm no expert on the man after reading one book but those themes kept popping out over and over in it.
Posted By: Simplepeddler Re: Vivek Ramaswamy - 12/15/23
Originally Posted by Dutch
There has been a constant drum beat aimed at the younger generations that "the American Dream is no longer attainable".

That's the foundation of the Lies of the Left.

Winner winner
Posted By: Jim in Idaho Re: Vivek Ramaswamy - 12/15/23
Here are two little details folks can pick on:

Wokeness is a religion -

It actually meets the legal definition of a religion and therefore falls under the 1st Amendment with regard to employer/employee relations. That means that a person can't be fired for espousing their woke beliefs but it also means that an employee can not be fired for refusing to go along with the woke beliefs of their employer, such as refusing to bow down for some Black Lives Matter virtue signaling. The latter is what we're seeing today, employees being fired for espousing their conservative beliefs even if done outside of the workplace, such as happened with Google employees (I'd look up the exact reference but I need more coffee).


Mandatory civil service for teenagers -

That's something that's been bandied about here. In his version, all people before reaching legal adulthood (people under the age of 18) must spend one month of their summer school break doing civil service, which could be a variety of things. Not children, the target group would be freshmen through seniors in high school. The idea is not so much to sweep streets or help out at old folks' homes, although those would be worthwhile endeavors, but to foster a shared experience of service to the country and for people to meet and work with others from all walks of life. It wouldn't take draconian new laws. We already require mandatory education for young people, this would simply be an extension of their education.

People who have served in the military, no matter which branch, have a shared experience of serving the greater good and generally look at other military vets as fellow citizens, not members of a different and threatening tribe. The whole point of mandatory civil service would be to foster that same experience of service to a greater good shared by everyone in the country, something to bind people together with a common identity as Americans.


That's the theme he keeps hammering on about Wokeness. It divides people whereas the whole idea of America is to unite people. We definitely don't have to agree on everything, we can have our differences, we can live our differences and let others live theirs, but there has to be something underlying it all. Even if we vehemently disagree with someone we can still recognize our commonality as Americans.


Again, folks can like that or hate it, I don't have any ego involved in this so don't come spewing crap at me. I just saw the question asked over and over and wanted to share what I've learned so far, then folks can make up their own minds.
Posted By: johnn Re: Vivek Ramaswamy - 12/15/23
The US is a constitutional republic.

I have often said I would vote libertarian if there was someone to vote for.

We could sure use a change, I like the guy.
Posted By: local_dirt Re: Vivek Ramaswamy - 12/15/23
Originally Posted by rainshot
Every time I hear the word “democracy “ my butt puckers. That’s Hillary’s battle cry. Pure democracy is “two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner “.



I always love when that traitor and her ilk start talking about "The Peopl"'.
Posted By: rainshot Re: Vivek Ramaswamy - 12/15/23
He says some good things and has a quick wit. on the other hand I know how Trump performs as President. He has a great record.
Posted By: jaguartx Re: Vivek Ramaswamy - 12/15/23
Well, I knew I should have saved his great speech that got him noticed which he copied from Barack Zero and switched out a few words here and there.

So, Joe Rogan, Tucker and others have been incorporated by Trump.

Who of you think he wasn't also?
Posted By: The_Real_Hawkeye Re: Vivek Ramaswamy - 12/15/23
Originally Posted by bluefish
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
It's a shame that he thinks that our nation was founded as a democracy (It's a representative republic). All the rest sounds good.

Technically speaking we are a democratically elected constitutional representative republic. Or at least we were.
Not true. The word "democratically" doesn't appear in our Constitution. Democracy is rule by the majority of the population of a given polity.
Posted By: Jim in Idaho Re: Vivek Ramaswamy - 12/22/23
A bit more than halfway through "A Nation of Victims" now. The more I read this guy the more I like him.

He is a Conservative Capitalist with capital C's but he is absolutely not a right wing ideologue. He certainly skewers modern woke culture, identity politics and all the sickness that goes along with them but he also takes a cold, hard look at everything in this country on all sides of political and cultural issues. He doesn't blow smoke up anybody's ass.

He strongly believes in the same paths and lessons of inconvenient truths recommended by great statesmen and philosophers across history (and rarely followed) who watched first hand as nations and empires rose and fell, who recorded the why of it and how those falls could have been averted.

I'll partially recant urging people to read his books. If your knee tends to jerk a lot, if you agree with someone 99% but hate him because of the 1% where you disagree, you aren't going to like him at all. But if you like someone who takes to heart lessons from Carthage, Rome, Greece, Hume, Kant, John Adams, Adam Smith and a whole bunch of others - well, you may or may not like him but at least he'll make you stop and think real hard about where we're going, where we should be going, and even more importantly how to get there.



Even if he never holds elected office, if he can be a voice of inspiration for a disaffected and disheartened nation and even minutely alter the course of destruction we're on then I think he will have served well.
Posted By: KFWA Re: Vivek Ramaswamy - 12/22/23
a little off topic, but I've seen this making the rounds on social media pointed to Gen Z and the Millineals.

You may not agree but its a bit of a gut punch to me when I see it. I think it speaks to the angst that Gen Z has trying to buy a $400K house and a $45K car. Hell, I'm doing OK and I don't even want to deal with it. I don't know if Vivek is a pull yourself up by your bootstraps kind of guy or if he thinks there are economic challenges facing the kids today that Boomers and Gen-X didn't have to face.
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
Posted By: Stophel Re: Vivek Ramaswamy - 12/22/23
I still say that he is being presented to us as a way for us right-wing extremists to direct our anger and effort in a "safe" way (safe for the enemies of America, that is). And when he starts talking about the great replacement.... Ooh they really love that irony.
Posted By: Bristoe Re: Vivek Ramaswamy - 12/22/23
Originally Posted by KFWA
or if he thinks there are economic challenges facing the kids today that Boomers and Gen-X didn't have to face.
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

There's no doubt that the economic situation has changed--and it hasn't even taken all that long. Millennials had it better than Gen Z.

I bought a little starter home as an investment for $145K 3 years ago. I kept it a year and sold it for 172K. Those houses are going for $220K today.
Posted By: KFWA Re: Vivek Ramaswamy - 12/22/23
comparison going around with the Xmas season, in Home Alone, Kevin buys groceries in 1990 and the total is $19 and change

someone went to a Krogers in their town last year , bought the same stuff and posted the price. OK, people understood, inflation over 30 years.

then they did it again in 2023. It was jaw dropping

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

I mean things are clearly out of the norm and for kids just starting out, it just seems incredibly hard which probably speaks to the migration to the South and the smaller cities of the Midwest
Posted By: Jim in Idaho Re: Vivek Ramaswamy - 12/22/23
He doesn't fall into the trap of playing the blame game or pitting one generation against another. The central theme of "Nation of Victims" is pointing out how playing the victim and blaming everyone else for one's current state is killing this country in multiple ways. It might be true and blame might very well be laid at someone's feet, but it's counter productive and offers no way out. He's all about finding a way out.

He is a millenial and sees things in a way this boomer doesn't, but as far as I can tell he never flinches from the truth as he sees it or embraces the comforting lie. If specific members of the Baby Boom demographic are responsible for something he says so, if certain millenials took advantage of their boomer parents' wealth and then hypocritically turned around and blamed them for social injustices and "white privilege", he says that, too. But he doesn't say "all boomers this" or "all another generation that".


I've been sitting here trying to write a synopsis of his ideas and failing, he covers too much ground. I gotta admit that my knee wants to jerk like hell at some of the things he says and some of his solutions, but after getting up and walking around and thinking about it, what he says about nations and humanity rings true. I find myself taking great umbrage at his point of view about some things that occurred in the last 8-9 years or even much further back but have to remind myself not to get bogged down on specific points of disagreement.

The main theme in this book and the last is that he really believes in America or more accurately the original ideals of the founders as something truly unique in the world, and he's really pissed at how greed, cynicism and ever more concentrated power in the hands of the few are f*cking it all up.


Regarding the economic situation and inflation we're in right now, I just finished a chapter on the fall of the Roman Empire. It's not hard to guess what economic policies contributed to that fall.
Posted By: RAM Re: Vivek Ramaswamy - 12/22/23
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
It's a shame that he thinks that our nation was founded as a democracy (It's a representative republic). All the rest sounds good.

Ditto too many believe that. Thank you Public Education and MSM

Repeat a lie enough, the people will believe it

Joseph Goebbels
Posted By: RAM Re: Vivek Ramaswamy - 12/22/23
Originally Posted by bluefish
[quote=It's a s/quote]

Technically speaking we are a democratically elected constitutional representative republic. Or at least we were.

Is that Kamala word salad?
Posted By: akrange Re: Vivek Ramaswamy - 12/22/23
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
It's a shame that he thinks that our nation was founded as a democracy (It's a representative republic). All the rest sounds good.

It’s a Shame Somebody put a Totalitarian White Hating Boot Stomper as CCBI Director..

Don’t sweat the Small Stuff ..

There’s Bigger Fish to Fry ..
Posted By: akrange Re: Vivek Ramaswamy - 12/22/23
Originally Posted by Jim in Idaho
Here are two little details folks can pick on:

Wokeness is a religion -

It actually meets the legal definition of a religion and therefore falls under the 1st Amendment with regard to employer/employee relations. That means that a person can't be fired for espousing their woke beliefs but it also means that an employee can not be fired for refusing to go along with the woke beliefs of their employer, such as refusing to bow down for some Black Lives Matter virtue signaling. The latter is what we're seeing today, employees being fired for espousing their conservative beliefs even if done outside of the workplace, such as happened with Google employees (I'd look up the exact reference but I need more coffee).


Mandatory civil service for teenagers -

That's something that's been bandied about here. In his version, all people before reaching legal adulthood (people under the age of 18) must spend one month of their summer school break doing civil service, which could be a variety of things. Not children, the target group would be freshmen through seniors in high school. The idea is not so much to sweep streets or help out at old folks' homes, although those would be worthwhile endeavors, but to foster a shared experience of service to the country and for people to meet and work with others from all walks of life. It wouldn't take draconian new laws. We already require mandatory education for young people, this would simply be an extension of their education.

People who have served in the military, no matter which branch, have a shared experience of serving the greater good and generally look at other military vets as fellow citizens, not members of a different and threatening tribe. The whole point of mandatory civil service would be to foster that same experience of service to a greater good shared by everyone in the country, something to bind people together with a common identity as Americans.


That's the theme he keeps hammering on about Wokeness. It divides people whereas the whole idea of America is to unite people. We definitely don't have to agree on everything, we can have our differences, we can live our differences and let others live theirs, but there has to be something underlying it all. Even if we vehemently disagree with someone we can still recognize our commonality as Americans.


Again, folks can like that or hate it, I don't have any ego involved in this so don't come spewing crap at me. I just saw the question asked over and over and wanted to share what I've learned so far, then folks can make up their own minds.


We just went thru No.2

Colleges and Universities put out No.1 on your List..

I’m thinking the Stranglehold the Marxist have on All Levels of the Federal Government Mandatory Service ain’t in our best Interest ..

Besides it would be Cruel and Unusual Punishment to the Presently Sane ..
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