How many times to do reload before your happy load?

I must be fuzzy?. Fuzzy, that is new to me, LOL Get a new gun, reload and get acquainted with the gun.
But seems to take forever at times , testing testing etc...
One day I will shoot am awesome group with a certain load, next day it is like WTF?
. Problem for me is it takes a lot of shooting to fine the right powder, bullet combo, ETC... For me anyway. Not that I mind,

So as a reloader! How far do you go? I mean I always want clover leafs at 100 yard as that is basically all I need in my area of hunting/

I usually buy a rifle for hunting, either deer or varmints, and informal target shooting.
That said, a new to me caliber, is always asked about to others on this forum. There’s a wealth of knowledgeable people on here, and most are happy to help you out and share information.
When I get something new, I figure out what bullets I want to use, and powder based on what I have and what I can find without a hassle. Also take into consideration what kind of velocity range you want.
After doing a little homework here and in my loading manuals, I’ll start to work up a load using the smallest amount of a certain powder. I use different color sharpies on the primers, and I put a note in the cartridge box what color corresponds to what powder charge I start small and I go up in half grain increments.
I load a couple to shoot to get the speed, and usually 5 for target shooting.
Once I see what velocity and accuracy I get, I make another batch to try, increasing charge by 2/10s of a grain.
Always watch you primers with a new load. If they’re backing out or cratering around the firing pin, you’re probably loading it too hot. Decrease your powder charge.
Some guys think it tedious, but I like shooting and I enjoy the process of loading.
I hope this answers your questions.
Also keep in mind that most rifles won’t shoot real good out of the box. Sometimes it takes a little shooting to get a barrel broken in.
I got a Ruger 77 in 7mm Rem Mag that took about 100 rounds before it really tightened up the grouping.
Reon

Pretty good thread titled “Painless Load Development” on Rokslide.

I employ the KISS (keep it simple stupid) principle to reloading, it's already tedious enough. That said most reloading manuals list an "accuracy load", also the late Ken Waters "Pet Loads" is an excellent reference resource when developing a load. I start there and take a couple sample batches of accurate loads to the range for testing. I don't get terribly involved with the minutae like bullet seating depth etc. I use SAAMI O.A.L. info and test rounds for feeding in my rifle(s). Taking this route most often produces a load that will group satisfactorily. This has been my load development protocol for the 50+years that I have been reloading.

Not sure why the struggle. I take a load with a specific powder that im going to use and start with 4 rounds loaded at a specific grain. So if im loading say 4350 for something and book max is 56 grains, ill load 4 rounds at 50, 51, 52, 53 and 54. Shoot 4 shot groups and see when it tightens in those. If 53 was the tightest, ill then do 4 rounds starting just under that. 52.5, 52.7, 52.9, 53.1, 53.3 as an example. Then find where its most accurate. Only requires two range trips and has always worked for every gun ive ever used

Most of my rifle shooting is at animals. At short ranges. If they fall dead after shooting, then that load is good enough for me. No paper punching or soul searching.

It depends upon the gun and the intended use. My Ruger UL 257 Roberts is a woods rifle with a pencil barrel. I'll never shoot it at anything beyond 150 yards. I stopped at a load that gave me 1.5 MOA. I have done a lot more load development with my Remington 700 223 target rifle.

Seems like two or three. Most of my loading is for hunting so a decent velocity and inch ish groups at 100 yards is good enough.

I pick a bullet and work around it staying under max

With a new gun working up loads helps in several ways. Trigger Time, Breaking in the Barrel, as well as finding a Load the Gun likes best. MY 300 HAM'R is a good example. I am at around 120 rounds through it now. The last trip to the range with it, I got the best groups so far.

My 22 ARC has mostly seen factory ammunition so far. It is shooting great, however the factory loads are leaving swipe marks on the brass. I plan on pulling the bullets on the 50 I have left, and down loading them a little. It is hard to look for pressure signs, when the factory once fired brass all has swipe marks. My CFE223 powder looks to be a slow lot. I need to change powders and see for sure. Then we have which of half a dozen bullets looks to work best.

Reloading for Accuracy is an Adventure.

Along the same line is Deer Season. Between working on Stands, and Stand Locations. Figuring out which handgun I will hunt with this year, and working with it. Picking the best Bullet. Then Trigger Time with both the handgun I plan to hunt with, as well as my XP100 22LR. I can get months of enjoyment out of a week and a half of Deer Season.

Bob R

Powder availability being what it is, never.

Shotguns? - Zero
Handguns? - Zero
CF Rifles? - 2, maybe 3
ML? - until I get bored

1, maybe 2.

Pick an appropriate powder for the bullet I am shooting and if it won't show me around an inch or under with minimal work I move that rifle down the road.

Cannot stand a picky rifle and won't waste time or components to find that "magical" load for it.

That’s me. I pick a load out of the book, load them up. If it gets an inch or less, good enough for the hunting I do. I load to factory length to begin with. I don’t have time or desire to play around with different loads. I have multiples in many calibers, used the same load in all of them, 59 grains of IMR 4350 with a 150 partition in 30-06’s, 64 grains of IMR 4350 with a 140 partition in 7 mags. Those shot well in every rifle I had of those calibers, probably not the fastest, but they killed deer and pigs just fine for me.

I usually find a good load that I’m satisfied with after testing 1-3 loads. If I get to 3/4” or better five shot groups at a good velocity, I accept that load and move on.

For the majority of my 24+ career as a reloader, I generally took my first load as good to go. However, several things affected that decision.

First off, I was starting about 5% off MAX to start. Second, these were mostly hunting rifles and if I got a group I could live with, I did not pursue it further. Third, I was mostly working with one powder, H4895. It's a moderately burning powder that gives accurate loads even with a fair amount of downloading.

I had one exception to this. It was a Savage 99 in 308 WIN and I tried a bunch of bullets, powders and brass before I found something that would work. It didn't like the 150 grainers I wanted to use in it. Second, I was having sticky ejections with the milsurp brass. I think I did 5 different loads before settling on 165 grain Hornady over H4895.

Over time, I've re-thought a few loads. 117 grain Hornady over H4895 gave me sucky velocities, and after I had a couple of deer run, I switched to H4198sc. That got me higher velocities, but again, I had a deer run on me. My latest attempt is 100 grain Hornady over H4198sc, and I'm still waiting on a deer to try it out.

Most recently, I've retired. I now have time to do more exploration. One thing I'm doing a lot more of is loading at the bench. I bring a bunch of processed and primed brass and a Lee Handloader with just the seating die. I'll spend several hours exploring different bullets or powders or seating depths until I find what I want.

So far, I've done that with two .223 rifles. One is my Ruger American Predator that I use strictly for target shooting. The other is a Savage 340 I have set up for coyote.

Another project has been my TC Compass in 7mm-08, looking for the best load with some Win StaBall 6.5.

It's not about that selected group that was good but what are you and your rifle capable of consistently. Conditions change, wind, mirage, setup. Your loads will likely change depending on how much each brass case hardens changing the grip on the bullet. How consistent are your reloads? Barrels wear with usage. The throat erodes and seating depth will change. There are a lot of factors in considering accuracy. What level of accuracy do you expect? What level of accuracy are your loads capable of? What level of accuracy is your rifle capable of? just how much accuracy are you capable of?

Typically 2 range trips:

1 with the combo I want to use in .5 gn increments, usually starting 1.5gn under Quickload max. Usually 10 @ the starting weight and 5 each as I go up.

Shoot to see what groups the best and get velocity in non-FF cases.

When I get home, I cross-reference velocity results with QL velocity predictions. I measure water capacity of FF'd cases, plug that into quick load and cross-reference any delta between QL predictions and actual velocity.

Load up 10 each of the best 2 groups from the previous session in FF'd brass and assuming ES/SD are reasonable, run whichever one shoots the best.

At that point I'll typically load up 30 more cases and over the next few range sessions as other rifle barrels are cooling, shoot a few groups to get the brass FF'd and add to that bbl's data set. Load the group of 30 up again as FF'd cases and continue to bring the rifle to the range and work through those 30 again.

Once I've got 50 2x fired cases I deprime, trim, anneal, size, and load up that 50 and I'm "ready".

I have started fooling with the OCW in my changeover from lead to copper in 5 common cartridges...seems like it's saving me a lot of shooting and components. The chronograph shows that 'flat spot' of no velocity increase even though the powder charge increased...and then fine tune the charge in the flat spot.
What really appeals to me is it doesn't rely on bench skill or weather....until it's time to verify the final load choice.
Also, I have never been a seating depth tinkerer. Too many Federal Gold Medal Match loads shoot too well in a wide variety of rifles. But of course I'm not shooting F class or benchrest.

Start with Quickload, speeds up the process.

Do a search for loads on the 24hr campfire who know what they are talking about. Certain posters are always posting high velocity’s. Stay away from that data or drop it a few grains. Send a few PMs. Once you have established that multiple guys shoot the same load, load it and shoot first from hip. Then verify it groups.

Generally once.

I’m never done developing loads. I tinker with everything I have until I no longer have it.

Sierra or Nosler show top loads for each combination.

One can generally start and end load development there short of adjusting COAL.

Similar....

All of my bolt rifles have an aftermarket barrel.. I choose a bullet I want for a rifle and find the seating depth. I start with the bullet being engraved by the lands and keep seating deeper until those marks disappear. Use steel wool on the bullet to make the marks more visible.
I have not fired a shot yet.
Next choose an appropriate powder and load one round 5-10% off maximum and shoot it through the chronograph. Check for pressure and load another round with a higher charge -- through the chrono. Repeat until maximum or near maximum is reached.
At this point I will shoot a 2 or 3 shot group. If I've done everything right and had a bit of luck that load will shoot. May shoot 3 at a lessor powder charge if the group is spitting a shot..
If that doesn't provide what I'm after I'll look at a different bullet or powder.. No need for a lot of shooting with a certain combination. Either it shoots or it doesn't..

BTW, all my rifles have the action bedded properly and the barrel floated. Generally shoot without a lot of fanfare..

Hopefully with research and luck somewhere in the first 20 rounds loaded I'm almost there. A few more groups of 5. And then go verify accuracy to 600 and zero's and I'm done.

Shoot when we see game. Or now and then to verify zero. I tend to verify the long zero on a rock at 1000 out of the stand a few times a season.

Is that the audette method I'd bet? I will have to see if I can google rockslide

I should say that I consult horn, Nosler, and Barnes data. But there have been piles of searchable loads posted on the 24hcf over the decades and they have proven to be more reliable than published data.

Or we had an AR rebarreled. Same brand, smith etc.. pac nor 6.5 twist. 223. 5 shots and clean really well confirmed standard load seemed ok. couple shots and clean to rough zero 200. 5 shots to confirm and clean at 300. Scrubbed barrel really well. Then fired 10 rounds at 200 on zero. Shot a few at 600 for zero. Took it to a regional match. Won the match. Set a record at the time on that range. Won the 99% NRA badge. Followed up a week later same loads in a state match. Won the 600 yard stage with first ever perfect score on that range. Managed to beat David Tubb. Placed 3rd in a Palma match the next day against bolt guns with ar service rifle. Won 800 and 900 outright and lost the match at 1000 but that was on me.

No more than need be.

Of course we have shot literally 100s, of thousands of rounds over the years and just don't shoot more than needed anymore.

IMO Sierra load data is just about worthless. They do not have or use pressure testing equipment, or at least they didn’t when I called and asked them a few years ago.

I was told they determine pressure the same way we would, reading primers and brass, in other words they guessed. No Thanks.

Hate to break it to you but Quickload is a guess/estimate too.

Only if you use QL your only source, otherwise it is just another tool to be used in conjunction with other tools.

Question, What’s the most important variable when following published load data?

For a big game rifle, generally speaking once I find a combination that is capable of 3 shots into a 1.5 inch circle at 100 yards I call it good.

It always starts with choosing the bullet I want to shoot.

Same for Hornady if you consult the paper manuals.

I look at my stock of powder and the shelves of bullets and decide on a combo. I load what I think should perform as I want it to and sight the rifle in. I shoot a group at 100 and might shoot one at 300M. If accuracy is within reason, I call it good. This for hunting or silhouette rifles. For long range target rifles, I'll work a little harder at it, but not much. It is rare that the first load doesn't do the trick. GD

Even if they use pressure equipment how do you know that particular load is safe in your rifle?

Interesting quote. The above illustrates how ineffective it is to load a series of 3 shot loads, shoot them, and pick the best group as your "load".

Not exactly ,
Hornady #7, page 74 says.

They use "Special Firearms designed to measure pressure", ....."The various loads are then test fired in commercially available firearms for velocity".

Hornady goes on to say that some calibers and for some cartridges, were tested the old fashioned way, "guessing", as a pressure barrel was not available at the time of testing.

That's if you consult the paper manuals.

👍🏻

When you are rifle shooting as a recreation, you are always reaffirming your load of choice. That way you learn what is you and what is your rifle throughout the good and bad days.

Also, some cartridges have generic or loads that across a variety of rifles tend to deliver similar and decent performance.

When starting with a new rifle or bullet, obviously, a good group is a place to start. Reshooting confirms fluke or good fortune.

Don't lose sight, that a .308 that shoots as accurately as a .30/30, still makes a decent deer and elk rifle.

A lot of good info above, I tend to stay away from the high pressure speedy loads myself as long as I can achieve desired results. Once I get a bullet powder combo that works I fine-tune the accuracy by adjusting the Ojive. I learned a lot of great tips from watching videos by Eric Cortina on YouTube.

It just comes down to how many primers, powder, bullets, and fuel you want to burn reinventing the wheel finding a load. Those are better used actually shooting than load development.

Find your lands, find pressure quickly, and move on with your life. Good bullets and known loads really help.

I went over book max once and my stupidity bit me in the ass, so never again.

I live out of town a ways so I can test velocity whenever I want. I consult different sources then work up to pressure signs, usually ejector marks in the brass, then back off. I chronograph while I’m looking for pressure to check velocity against my sources.

Then I use the Berger method to find accuracy.

https://bergerbullets.com/getting-the-best-precision-and-accuracy-from-vld-bullets-in-your-rifle/

This format works well for me and those I load for.





Not gospel by any means but I ain’t the only one doing it.






P

I guess it all depends on rhe rifle. I picked up a neat Mauser 98 custom chambered to the .35 Whelen. Not too bad with Remington factory ammo but nothing spectacular. I got lucky and drew tags for the wife and I for the Kaibab Nat'l. forest one year and they asked hunters to go copper. The state even provided free bullets for each rifle so ended up with 100 225 gr. Barnes TSX to try. First time out working with RL15 and at the max, .50" and 2710 FPS. Easiest load work up I've ever done.

When I started playing with a 7x57, I was reading on another site where a gentleman was getting som fabulous velocities from his M70 FWT. I contacted him and asked what he was using and when I worked up to the same level of speed with tight groups, called it good. Three trips to the range IIRC. and done.

My Ruger M77 RSI tanger was a complete cluster "F" from the start. Guy I bought it from said he could not get it to shoot. Came with scope, brass, bullets and dies. $200. Long story short, it took a little over two years to find a reasonably consistent hunting load. 1.5" at 100. Later I did a bit of tinkering with that metal nose cap and now it does about 1.25" about half the time and no more than the 1.5" from before. That little rifle has accounted for a hell of a lot of deer once I found a load that worked. I figure it was worth the effort.
PJ

Which book? They are all different.

Some so different that the Start load in one manual is more than the Max load in another.

Same Cartridge, same Case, same Primer, same Bullet.

Ramshot TAC, using Ramshot data. 75 gr ELDM, .223 Rem.

And kind of waaay over.

Like, head up my ąss over.





P

It doesn't take long at all. Especially with a rifle that is properly glass bedded, and mechanically sound. I can generally find a good load in one range trip. By good, I mean 5 shots into moa or less. YMMV from the sounds of it.

I just about allways look at the top 2 or 3 powders producing the highest velocity and start down a couple grains work up. The results justify this approach for me. Mb

I do that as well, and also if the book lists load density, I shoot for the most dense load. Sometimes I'll chose a powder that gets more velocity with less grains as well. I also know how certain powders work, from experience, and I'll chose a powder that tends to shoot more accurately, or maybe one that is less temp sensitive. Or with some cases, I want a powder that meters very well, so I can just drop it in the case and be done. No trickling, just keep it simple. There's a little bit involved, in choosing the right powder. IMHO..

I used the Sierra manual... picked their "Best" two loads (hunting and accuracy) and started there.

Worked out well about 80% of the time.

But every rifle sings a different tune... so good luck.

Me and two other guys bought 105,000 rounds of rejected AMERC 5.56/223.

The brass was fubar beyond belief as 5.56/223.

Ammo was DIRT CHEAP.

Harvested the powder and very very carefully worked up .308 loads with 150s.

In the end... it worked out just fine.



My .308s typically hate 150s...

Rokslide painless load thread

This should ruffle some feathers

Welcome to my world. I never seem to find that load. But, I like reloading and I like the shooting. The search continues.

kwg

Not to me it doesn't. To me it illustrates a common theme of inconsistent reloads. Once I figured out some tricks to make consistent ammo using what I have, RCBS and Lee dies mostly, not mandrels or bushings, my what the heck was that moments pretty much disappeared.

I don't trust a single 3 shot group as absolute gospel, but generally a very tight group is close on subsequent tests. Sometimes it's a rifle that is causing inconsistency, but barring that my ability to quickly find a good load and repeat it, went WAY up when I figured out some tricks to make repeatable, very consistent ammo.

That can work. Its worked for me. But the audette is what you do to follow it up when it fails. Its scientific. Works well. Requires very few rounds.

WTF is a slipped turret? This slang crap is just another sign of the times.

And if my custom tube doesn't shoot with one bullet and load, I'm not giving up... sounds like a partial dumbass.

That said if he is having barrels replaced and a competition shooter one would EXPECT the same loads to work time and again for the most part with a bit of verification.

Wonder what he does when accuracy falls off as the barrel ages? Toss it? Or check MV and up to load to match after firing a few fire lapping rounds and bingo back to normal again for some amount of rounds.

Some calibers have a magic node like 30/06 with 165s and 55-56 gr of 4350 or 270 with 130s with 4831

Slipped turret = zeroing out the turret once poa is poi.....exactly what it sounds like.

If the "accuracy falls off as the barrel ages"....I think it's time for a new barrel.

The inherent issues with shooting these "audette" things is unless you are shooting 10 or more rounds per increment, it's statistically irrelevant. The results are random.

Read this- then realize that trying to shoot teeny-tiny groups when the wind is blowing is a waste of time and components.
https://precisionrifleblog.com/2013...house-lessons-in-extreme-rifle-accuracy/

I have changed my philosophy over the years. When I got started I was always chasing the prefect load. I went through a lot of components seeking the elusive .01 inch improvement. Today I decide what accuracy and velocity I will settle for and start working toward it. I usually check a couple of manuals and also Mule Deer's loads that work. Using that as a guide, I start about .05% low and work up using 4 shot groups until I see pressure or reach the max load. Then I pick the most accurate charge and tinker with depth. If the load meets my desired goal, I am done.

That's not much of a reduction.

My load that works with 165's and a 30-06 has always been 57 gr's of IMR 4350. Probably a lower node down the scale like you're listing that works well also, but 57 has always worked so well for me, that's where I head first. 57 of 4350 with 165's and 56-56.5 of 4350 with 180's has been an easy button in a lot of 30-06's.

48 gr's of H4895 and Sierra 150 PH has become a new go to load also. 30-06's seem to like that combo a lot.

Check out Gun Gack IV:
The Little Book of Rifle Loads That Work

Courtesy of Mule Deer aka: John Barsness
It's the best starting point I can think of - especially as hard as components are to find now!

It has been a long time since I have worked a load for a new rifle. However, I may have to find a new load for my 7Mag when I finally run out of RL25 and 160 Nosler Partitions. Things being what they are now, I may never find those again.

Be that as it may, This is how I do it.
Choose a bullet I want to use.
Choose a powder that gives the velocities I want without going to the max load and which fills the case 80 -85 % full.
Seat the bullet just lightly touching the lands.
Select a primer (standard or mag) appropriate for the powder and charge weight.

While fire forming cases and breaking in the barrel, hunt with it.
After the barrel is well broken in and the brass is fire formed for that chamber, neck size the brass, test different powder charge weights in five shot groups until I get an MOA group.

Two rifles I have owned did not give MOA groups on the first attempt with that method. I changed bullets with one 25-06 and that did the trick. With a 7 Mag I changed to a powder with a slightly different burn rate and that worked.
Once I find the load the rifle likes, I buy enough of those components to last a good long while.

These are hunting rifles, not bench rest rifles. So the first MOA load I find is where I stop tuning the load.

Dude

160 gr Partitions


https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/19179060/1






P

I have ruger ranch 450bushy- what barrel break-in system should I use to insure the rifle shoots 1/4'' groups all day long ?? ??

Marzoom: I get a new Rifle (Varmint or Big Game Hunting types) and "I" decide on which bullet to shoot in it for my purposes.
Then I putter around til I get near .500" groups (5 shots at 100 yards) with that bullet and that about settles that for my Colony Varmint and predator Hunting guns.
My Big Game Rifles, again "I" decide on the exact bullet I want to shoot in it and putter around until I get groups (3 shots at 100 yards) just under 1.000".
Last Varmint Rifle I bought (a used but as new Remington XR-100 in 204 Ruger) I settled on the FIRST loading with that bullet I tried - its shoots exceptionally well.
I do NOT bemoan the folks that seem to endlessly be trying to find an even more accurate loading in their Rifles - range time is enjoyment time for them. And for me, to a certain extent.
Handloading for me is not a chore and is in fact therapeutic it seems. But out of respect for expensive barrels these days, I get my Varmint/Big Game Rifles load development done ASAP and then they are mostly only shot at Varmints/Game or for sight in verification.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Ol mike: Thats funny!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy