1st, I am an avid opponent of illegal immigrants and non-english speaking people in this country...

My wife hired a service to be done in our backyard last week. It was concrete borders for the flower beds.
Well today the crew showed up and 5 mexicans were there with one white guy. I watched this unflod and its almost like modern day slave labor class...He wasnt mean but lets be honest, this is uneducated, labor class just like slaves were, only they make "some" money. Problem is, they are illegal, its tax free, we have to educate their kids and pay their health bills, meanwhile they send all the money back to Mexico and dont keep it in our economy..

WELL WHAT I DID WAS I WENT OUT AND ASKED THE WHITE FOREMEN to step aside for a private conversation.
I told him that I dont like whats going in this country with illegals and if any of these people were:
illegal
non-english speaking
not carrying green card or not a citizen they best get off my property now. He said they were all illegal and called them all in spanish to VAMOS --Let's go. I asked him if he would be coming back with citizens of the USA he said no, then i asked if he was willing to give up the job and he said yes.
A call ot the owner later yielded the same, her quote was American workers are lazy and good luck finding a company to do it with americans!!

Well what would you have done?

I would have done the job myself. Indeed, I've got a sidewalk to brick and stone as a matter of fact.

I have worked with an awful lot of mexicans that spoke little or no english. They did happen to be legal and most of them did work hard. They were pretty much like anything else. There were VERY FEW American's willing to work there. Very few (3 to 4 out of a couple dozen or more.

Brent

Called ICE?

I think you made the call that was right for you.

I hope you find some legals, (or friends you have negatives of), to do the work.

Do your country a service, call immigration.

would ICE DO AN ANYTHING?

without getting into the nuts and bolts of this type situation ... I'll offer this...

regardless of your allowing them to work for you or not, chances are VERY high that many others will continue to employ their services, and consequently pay them...

regardless of whether or not you ever see them again, your tax dollars will still end up going towards paying for their education, medical bills, etc...

you're likely going to pay a premium to ensure that you end up with a set of 'legal' workers to do the job you hired them for ... unless, of course, you do it yourself ...

so in the end, unfortunately, your actions will probably do nothing more than cost you some extra money.

Until the vast majority takes action like you did, the problem is not going to go away, or even get any better ...

those are just the 'facts' ... I admire what you did ... and would have been ok with you calling the INS as well ...

again, I'm not offering my feelings on the heart of the matter, as I don't feel like discussing it ... I'm just stating how I feel the situation will play out ...

very few willing to work for the prices they would pay mexicans cash under the table...yep youre right there

I'd be a hypocrite if i knowingly paid and supported that work. a man has to stand for something even if it isnt popular

I agree with you ... which is why I stated that I admire what he did ... he didn't like that there were illegals there to work... and he kicked them off his property and accepted the fact that the 'contractor' turned down doing the work for him ...

I merely stated what I see to be the immediate and long term effects of his actions ...

again, until the vast majority chooses to act in like fashion, the 'problem' will only grow ...

I'd do the work myself. I can't stand any company that hires illegals, and my next call would have been to ICE, and I would have let the owner know it. Les

I may call ICE tomorrow... thanks for the feedback. i felt good about it! Heck, she told me on the phone they do over 300 houses a year to which i replied i didnt give a damn.

Frankly, if more folks would NOT hire illegals, and WOULD call and report their being sent to do a job, then we would have LESS of them here.

Love that bonnie blue flag!!!!!!!!

Good on ya Sako75. Les

Congrats, you did what everyone SHOULD do. Were not gonna get the point across to these companies that hire these illegals unless we choose not to use there service and expose them for what they're doing. I'd rather pay a few bucks more then pay for the illegals health care and educating their children.

AMEN BROTHER!

I've got non-english speaking mexicans on the job right now, erecting a garage building. They work harder, longer, and seem to take more pride in their work than any american carpenter I've had work for me in recent memory. Illegal or not, they put value into the project that is uncommon. I happen to speak spanish, so it ain't no sweat with language barrier. Sometimes, I think all this mexican bashing is more about our own deficiencies more than theirs.

There, except by the grace of God, go you and I. I sure the hell would be in this country illegally if I had no other choice. Can't really blame the employer either. We done unionized ourselves into this mess.

I ain't bashin' Mexican, but all damned ILLEGALS, send all the sunsabitches home, shoot them if they don't friggin comply!

I have nothing against mexican workers by any means, don't get me wrong. I have worked with many mexicans before and you're right most of them are very hard working, dedicated people. That however is not my issue with the situation. If they could come here and assimilate to an extent and not abuse our emergency medical system then I would have far less of a problem. The problem is nobody see's the money they cost us because it comes out of the taxes we pay. There are enough dead beats that unfortunately are here legally we have to pay for, I don't want to have to pay for illegals in addition, hard working or not.

I didn't read anyone bashing mexicans. I did read a condemnation of companies and people who employee illegals, as it should be.

Someone needs to get the ball rolling, maybe others will follow.

Yes, it will probably cost him a little in the long run; however, I think doing the right thing is worth the cost. Being able to carry on and say I ain't no hypocrite.

once again ... I agree ... never said the extra cost wasn't worth it ... just that it does cost more ... (grin)

In reality it's not the illegal immigrants' fault he gets hired to do work, nor to receive any benefit imaginable. The fault can be placed with the employer who is hiring the illegal immigrant, and with the governments (local, Federal, etc.) who make it possible.

Although there are plenty of illegals from latin America in the USA, there are even more that are here legally (and I oppose the almost unlimited immigration policy). Here in Colorado, it would be unusual to find the entire crew illegal.......

I bet there are lots of companies that hire legal aliens/work permitees that are in the landscaping biz--even in Dixe.

Casey

Somebody ought to beat the chit out of that "foreman".
I'm surprized that our nations's unions haven't taken a stronger stand against this...they are the ones being castrated.

They have a landscaping union? Who'd a thunk?

When I was in high school I'd have been on that crew and so would some of my classmates. I did lots of jobs just like that one from the time I was 16 until I joined the Navy at 18. Part of the problem is our teenagers now days all want to start in middle management and retire at 30 from Microsoft and don't know what work is.

I'm a union electrician, my brother in law is a union plumber, a friend runs a union carpenter crew and every one of us see a lack of work ethic in our youth. It's no wonder that someone that wants a day's work for a day's pay hires Mexicans or someone else, legal or not, that will actually work for the money.

It's not just our government or our employers that are to blame. It's parents that raise lazy kids with sense of entitlement that feel they are above getting sweaty for a day's pay.

It doesnt help that the school system frowns on labor and trades. In high school (which wasn't very long ago) I never heard a word about the trade's or apprenticeship programs. Since I've graduated high school every teacher I've spoken with and told them that I was working construction, they just say "oh, well somebody has to do it" Not until a couple years after school did I learn about apprenticeship programs and now I'll be starting the program this fall. Moral of the story is, schools don't really lay out all the options for students.

Go ahead and call ICE. Since the foreman and owner admitted, expressly or tacitly, that their employees were illegal aliens, that puts them in the position of knowingly employing illegals. But DON'T tell the owner you're calling ICE. I hate it when people do that. Just do it!! Let him find out when ICE pays him a visit, if they do. Too many people want to get that jab in and say "I'm calling the cops...!" first. Don't taunt them or give them a heads-up that you're dropping a dime on them...let the call itself be the jab!

And yes, a lot of those Mexicans do work hard, often harder than an American would and for less money, some of which they may send home, and they may live packed to a ridiculous number in a motel or apartment room. And the employer is probably right...he/she would probably never find Americans willing to do that work for that pay in a million years. Mebbeso I'd do the same thing as the illegals, if I was in their position.

But their negative effects are also real. Hospitals that take indigents with full waiting rooms. People driving with no DL because they have no papers, or they had a DL which was suspended for DUI, or whatever reason. Gangs and drive-by's. Backdoor citizenship, wherein they get to America, have a kid, then claim it's cruel to breakup the family by deporting the parents, so please leave them here for the kids' sake, oh, guess what, they might as well be citizens now. Disturbance calls on Saturday and Sunday morning because unless most folks who drink till the wee hours and then go to bed, these bozo's drink all night long right into the next day and then the trouble starts around dawn. It's a friggin' mess.

But you can't deport them, because 'there's too many of them'. As long as we keep giving illegals 'a path to citizenship', they will keep coming, because even they can understand that if they can stay under the radar until the next 'immigration crisis', they will be given 'a path to citizenship' because the politicans say 'there's too many of them to deport'. The commission of a crime en masse makes it unpunishable? Or is it that each party wants to be their benefactor in hopes that when they become citizens and get the right to vote they will register and vote as (fill in the blank).

Intellectually, while the argument that 'there's too many to deport' may in practicality be correct, in principle it is indefensible. Good God, how many insurgents are there over in Iraq, and yet we have an entire army over there halfway around the world trying to ferret them out! People shouldn't piss on my boots and tell me it's raining...it insults my intelligence, and that I just plain don't like.

America has always been known as 'The Melting Pot', with it's arms open to the oppressed and poor and disenfranchised of other countries. And immigrants, from all countries, have historically contributed much to this nation, both in it's growth, and in it's culture. And no one says folks shouldn't be proud of their heritage. But if America is the Melting Pot, then melt, dammit! If you come to this country intending to remain here and enjoy it's horn of plenty and the fruits of liberty, then become an American. Not a Mexican-American, or an African-American, or an English-American. Become an American!! Learn to speak our language, and use it. What you speak at home is your businss, but don't expect the clerk at Wal-Mart or the Driver's License office employee to speak a foreign language. And for damn sure if you decide to wave a flag in this country, it better be an American flag!

If I found a magic lamp, and there was a genie inside who would grant me 3 wishes, he could keep 2 of them. I only wish that I was wiser than I am.

If you're asking me what the answer is to the problem, I'll tell you the truth. I don't know. It's a very complex issue, and has many elements on a legal, economic, moral, and humanitarian basis.

I'm curious as to how an employer handles any required (FICA/fed./state/local tax) withholdings for workers that he knows or strongly suspects their documentation is fake and are in this country illegally.

Does the employer simply send in their withholdings to the appropriate agencies as with any legal employee?

What happens to their money then since no accounts actually exist in their name?

Is it possible some unscrupulous employers might be keeping the withholdings themselves, figuring, "What the hell, who are they going to go to complain"?

I always admire somebody who sticks to principle even when it costs him something.

So kudos on that.

But of course I'm happy to see illegal aliens employed and working hard.

First, cheap labor is good for everybody.

Second, they're certainly not competing with me for jobs.

Third, it's a whole lot better than having them on the welfare rolls, right?

The immigration problem is caused by too much government. (Minimum wage and handouts, in this case.) Bringing more government into the issue will only make it worse, the way it always does. Most people don't understand this; therefore, I expect presently more government will be brought into the issue and it will get worse. Given that, the smart play is to learn to deal with it and perhaps even profit from it, not get all in a tizzy about it and demand even more government.

So...since I don't share your perspective, I wouldn't have done what you did; but even though I disagree with what you did, I admire you for doing it.

As far as I know they send it in using the SS number they were given by the illegal. In fact I have a lawyer friend that's working on a case like that. The guy was illegal and got caught because the SS# he was using for 17 years was actually for woman who is getting ready to retire now. He's not an illegal Mexican though...he's Canadian.

Or perhaps an unscrupulous government is happy to have all that "extra" money coming in that it knows it won't ever have to pay out (Social Security, etc.)?

What would I have done? I would have gone out and talked to them and gotten to know them... but that's just me.

Penny

SAKO75: I was in that position last year. I needed a walkway built that I couldn't do myself, and I was adamant that there'd be no illegal labor on my property. Turns out that I couldn't get contractor to return a call or come around to give me an estimate. I never even got a chance to explain my conditions for letting out the work. Obviously a result of "the worst economy since the Great Depression". I eventually found a guy who worked with his two brothers, and they were all legal. That was just a stroke of luck, though. It's getting near impossible to find contractors who won't use them.

Cheap labor does not out weigh the burden on our health care system that is about busted anyways and believe me, illegals find ways to get on the welfare and food stamps. My girlfriend works for the county and I know for a fact they have county employees that aid these illegals in getting these services. Also the jobs they do that no one else would do would be great jobs for those people who sit on welfare and food stamps for years and years and not lift a finger.

Call ICE, and get some sort of DOC. # on your report, ....request a follow up call from them......as to how they proceed against this "Contractor".

He IS a 5th columnists, ya' know.

You did the right thing, bro.

GTC

I wonder who'll get to claim the benefits, the Illegal, the lady, or does S.S. say, "neither, it's ours now"?

Pretty much what I expect, too, Penny.

Of course they do. But that's a good thing, not a bad thing. It points up the bankruptcy of the system and pushes it closer to collapse. Wouldn't you like to see the socialist government welfare system collapse--especially given that it's one of the two main causes of illegal immigration?


Again, you're right; but in the absence of illegal aliens, can you think of any way to persuade the people you're talking about to actually lift a finger?

Me either.

Except...if the government welfare system collapses and they're forced to work or starve.

That'd fetch 'em, all right.

And that's exactly where illegal aliens are taking us.

More power to 'em, that's what I say.

Muledude you are such a numbskull, hiring illegals because you THINK they do a better job than American labor is just pizzin in the wind. You blame the unions for the inadequacy of the American work force again you are 180 degrees off The down fall of American labor was the greed of business who want unions out so they can hire cheap labor at the expence of the rest of us to build your project. You are part of the problem not the answer. We need unions now as much or more than we needed them in their inception. But power corrups and absolute power corrupts absolutly. See George Bush for an example or Jimmy Hoffa.
Lets get rid of the illegal invaders and get our country back for the citizens of this country and put our kids and grandkids to work rebuilding this once great country, not the illegal invaders or their kids.

Bullwnkl.

We can be part of the problem or part of the solution. Congratulations on having morals and a back bone.
I have found the job costs the same with illegals doing the work as legal labor, the owner of the company just pockets what he saves on labor costs, to cover his tail in case he gets caught or has to pay out of pocket for medical expenses.
Also if one of his illegals gets injured on your property and the contractor has no coverage for them guess who their attorney will sue.

i would argue that the government that this applies to certainly isnt the USA, but mexico instead, as they benefit from this financially

fragrance




This is the only next step that makes sense..........Period!


What you know you must share. They are breaking the "LAW", they are criminals..............Period!

JMO


Mark

It would be easy to dismiss this as just some crackpot rant, but I can see some serious thought behind the idea. I'm not buying into it, but it does make me pause and think
I can sense at least a grain of truth in what you're saying.

God bless you, for what you did. We sure need more Americans like you.

The reason you can't find legal labor, now, to do this kind of work, is because, due to the artificial (government manufactured) costs involved in doing anything legally in the United States today, these contractors cannot afford to pay legal labor a wage that would motivate any legal American to actually want to do such hard work.

Just a question, why do i here this all the time(even from corp heaquarters Wal-mart) try to hire people,when it's about white workers?

You guys are kidding yourselves if you think illegals are better workers than Americans. Good God, every wetback in Colorado went out and bought himself a cooler and a toolbelt, stole some tools to go with it, and calls himself a carpenter!

You want a house built wrong, by a bunch of guys that don't speak english, cannot read blueprints, have no training, or experience, then by all means hire some wetbacks to build your house.

I have worked on a lot of jobsites with wetbacks. Most of them aren't worth crap. They would show up for a couple weeks, then not show up again. Then you see them two days later working at a job down the street. Yeah, they are hardworkers when the boss is around. Go ahead and leave a crew of wetbacks unattended, and have them build your house and see what happens. In a year when the concrete is cracked, the drywall is cracked, your pipes spring leaks, you will be calling an American to fix it.

And...don't get me started on unions. They figure if they cannot beat them, join them! They do everything they can to get the wetbacks in their union. I know this for fact, because I worked on union accounts. They figure strength in numbers and try and unionize these guys. The Centennial State Carpenters actually got investigated due to this.

No.

Barak asked, "Again, you're right; but in the absence of illegal aliens, can you think of any way to persuade the people you're talking about to actually lift a finger?"

Sure. It's real easy. if you're on welfare and a job of work becomes available, you either take it or the welfare stops. No workee, no welfare. The one important hig it the agency in charge of welfare must enforce it rigorously.
Paul B.

Well, I appreciate you taking the trouble to post just to point out a grain of truth. Thanks, amigo.

So you're saying illegal immigration actually creates jobs for Americans? Hmm. Hadn't thought of it that way. Learn something every day, eh?

That is the same argument the unions use. Union workers cost more but they claim to be more efficient than non. I don't exactly agree myself although their could be some truth in that.

You've put your finger right on the problem. In all socialist systems, including the US welfare system, the incentives and motivations are in exactly the wrong place.

Welfare agencies are motivated to pass out as much free money as possible: the more money they pass out, the bigger their budgets become, the further they expand, the more promotions are available, etc. Make a law that restricts how much money they can pass out under those circumstances, and they will instantly begin finding ways to bypass, circumvent, or safely ignore that law: it's standing squarely in the way of their advancement. Your politicians can proudly point to the law and claim to have accomplished something and maybe get reelected; but the folks you want to be lifting their fingers will still be sitting on their butts instead.

The welfare problem and the illegal immigration problem are alike in that respect: each one was created by an unjustified overabundance of government, and the incentives generated by that overabundance of government serve only to make both problems worse. Adding even more government to both situations, by passing more legislation, hiring more enforcers, buying more weapons--whatever--will simply exacerbate the problem and make the bad incentives stronger.

In both cases, the real solution is to take the government influence that caused the problem in the first place and pull it completely out. Eliminate the minimum wage and abolish all government entitlements, and both welfare queens and illegal aliens will utterly cease to be problems. Until that happens, both problems will remain, and more laws will simply make them worse.

Yah, I don't know either, really. I've never been a union member, and wouldn't ever consider being one; but I'm not going to cut on unions as a general concept. I have no objection to seeing how unions do in the free market: but of course the market has to be free--of coercion, either from the government or from the unions.

Jeez, .....I think B Man has nailed this,

........Plumb center, fair and square.

well done, Sir.

GTC

I agree, while I don't agree with all of his points, it is a different prospective on the situation and I must say you do bring forward a lot of good points. I guess you can say I'm like the Benedict Arnold of the union because I am a member but I don't exactly agree with everything they stand for but I couldn't pass up the oppurtunity for advancement. While I do like that I have something that has the side of the employee and I like the benefits and pension plan, I do not all the politics involved and I tend to not agree with most of the politics.

So, ......

Write much, ....Speak English....?

GTC

Ya did the right thing.

'Cept I'd not be informing them about calling ICE, they don't deserve the warning and there'd be a strong possibility that you and yours would have to worry about retaliation.

Birdwatcher

Yes i was worried about retaliation when my home alarm went off last night!! never has happned before.... I figured they'd throw some antifreeze soaked meat over my fence at the very least to kill my dog or something...i did call the police but they told me to call INS and i have not

Another thing that could be easily done is to require them to perform some duties before they get their welfare check. Clean up a park or some other duty, but at the very least show up at a designated place for eight hours a day, or no money. miles

I agree miles. If they can't get a real job, have them do community service or something. Might help them realize how good it feels to go out and work for a living

I probably woulda done the job myself for starters, but in your circumstance I probably woulda called INS, mebbe some State pukes regarding the employer....Oh yeah...OSHA. Can't forget them dimwits now can we....?

Muleskinner

I don't doubt they take pride in their work. But I seriously doubt they do it the way it should be or have a clue how it should be.

I deal with contractors on a daily basis. Of all that I deal with over the last years, I know of exactly one that was concerned if it was done correctly or not and he calls me to this day to ask how to do it correctly.

The rest just put a few nails in it and call it good. Regardless of how it should be.

Locally its refreshing to find a non mexican crew working, they will be higher,but the quality of the work and knowledge are much higher.

That being said I can also name some non mexican crews taht don't care, I have one specific contractor that builds in my jurisdiction by the books, yet we serve some areas with electricity only which, when in that area is the only thing I can enforce, those houses are horrible, except the electricity.

Don't ever think that because they want to work, that they have a clue of what they are doing.

Jeff

It's a good thought, but in real life it doesn't tend to work out that way.

In real life you find that some folks on welfare are--for example--pregnant women. Others are diabetics with special needs. You find that there is no dearth of folks who will sue you for violating their civil rights if you force them to work. You could say, "Okay, fine, we won't force you to work: we just won't give you any money if you don't!" But these kinds of people work out to be the most pitiable ones, that excite the most public sympathy: how successful do you think you'd be trying to get politicians to take public funding away from people in wheelchairs?

And of course once you've established the precedent of exceptions, it's off to the races. Everybody finds a way to become an exception, or to sue if they don't, and you're right back where you started...although some politician or other has probably gotten himself reelected on the strength of his toughness on welfare queens.

Of course, completely eliminating welfare isn't going to happen either, unless there's just no money for it. It's simply too good a generator of votes. And as long as the government can raise taxes, there'll be enough money for it. And when the government can no longer explicitly raise taxes, it can inflate the currency for the same effect.

As long as it has a monopoly on the currency, at least.

Hence my long-standing advocacy of private currencies and digital cash.

I have nothing against Mexican Americans, or any other Americans for that matter. There were more brown people in the Alamo fighting Mexico for their independence than there were whites. I've got friends from the Alamosa Colorado area that can trace their families to being there for three hundred years. This is before Geo. Washington and Thomas Jefferson were born. Personally I have nothing against Mexican immigrants either. I've worked with some in the past and they do work hard. The thing I don't like though is, as more and more immigrate to this country, I have to try to compete with the people who will hire them. They are cheap, skills vary as with whites, but I won't work for half of what I make now, and I can't hire people that will work for that cheap either legally. It's funny how this thing has turned into a brown person against white person thing, not just for the whites either, a lot of Mexican Americans are right there supporting illegal immigration because they think it's about skin color. Many Mexican Americans know better too.

When I was a kid, it was too far to ride a school bus in from the ranch every day. It was 45 miles of mud, ruts, and snow drifts. I tried it one year and missed about 2 days a week average in first grade. (Not to mention we had to drive three miles to get to a county road to wait for the bus which was more often than not late). The foreman of our ranch was originally one of the Alamosa Mexican Americans that I already mentioned. By second grade, I was living with his family from Monday until Friday during the school year. Great people! His wife used to get up very early every morning and make fresh tortillas. What didn't get ate that day became chicken feed. It's a sin to eat them stale. Boy, did I eat good back then. After a few years I could eat a hotter pepper than anybody in that family. I still remember sitting on the wrong side of the segregated movie theater when I was a kid. These people have been friends of our family's for over 40 years now and their kids are like my siblings. ALL of them are against illegal immigration too.

Something that is just as bad, IMO, if not worse, is the Free Trade Agreement, that allows American companies to shut the doors in America and set up their plants in Mexico where people will work for a nearly nothing--at least by our standards.

I'd still report them though--I've never done this before but it's getting bad--It's time to start I guess. I've got a bigger beef with the people who hire them illegally and the companies that move across the border than I do with the individual Mexicans.

My father-in-law is a contractor and I help him on my days off from my real job. We had a sub-contractor show up to build a fence around a house with two non-english speaking folks in his crew. My F-I-L asked if they were illegal and he boasted that they were, like he was proud of the fact. F-I-L sent him packing and said to forget any future business. We still have a very adequate supply of american farm boys looking for work that we don't need to send our money South of the Border.

CK