I bet you really feel like a bunch of fools now............
According to the FTC:
* No evidence to suggest that refiners manipulated prices through any means, including running their refineries below full productive capacity to restrict supply, altering their refinery output to produce less gasoline, or diverting gasoline from markets in the United States to less lucrative foreign markets. The evidence indicated that these firms produced as much gasoline as they economically could, using computer models to determine their most profitable slate of products.
* No evidence to suggest that refinery expansion decisions over the past 20 years resulted from either unilateral or coordinated attempts to manipulate prices. Rather, the pace of capacity growth resulted from competitive market forces.
* No evidence to suggest that petroleum pipeline companies made rate or expansion decisions in order to manipulate gasoline prices.
* No evidence to suggest that oil companies reduced inventory to increase or manipulate prices or exacerbate the effects of price spikes generally, or due to hurricane-related supply disruptions in particular. Inventory levels have declined, but the decline represents a decades-long trend to lower costs that is consistent with other manufacturing industries. In setting inventory levels, companies try to plan for unexpected supply disruptions by examining supply needs from past disruptions.
* No situations that might allow one firm � or a small collusive group � to manipulate gasoline futures prices by using storage assets to restrict gasoline movements into New York Harbor, the key delivery point for gasoline futures contracts.
You can read the report
here. I hate to say "I told you so", but, I told you so.
Obviously the FTC is in on the conspiracy.
No evidence to support Ted Kennedy had been drinking or doing anything other than just giving a nice girl a lift home either...
Beg your pardon what were you saying CAS?
just yanking chain pard, no offense intended. (grin)
I didn't want to quote your entire article so the meat of it as far as I'm concerned is :
"The evidence indicated that these firms produced as much gasoline as they economically could, using computer models to determine their most profitable slate of products."
'economically could' means as much as they felt like producing to keep prices jacked up
'their most profitable' means....well we all know what that means
Geez, You would think all of that price gouging would have left an obvious trail.
Commissioners
The Commission is headed by five Commissioners, nominated by the President and confirmed by the Senate, each serving a seven-year term. The President chooses one Commissioner to act as Chairman. No more than three Commissioners can be of the same political party. The current Chairman is Deborah Platt Majoras. The other commissioners are Pamela Jones Harbour, Jon Leibowitz, William E. Kovacic, and J. Thomas Rosch.
Kind of like the fox guarding the henhouse!
The nerve of those bastards, being in business to make money. I say string them all up!
Jon Leibowitz......is that the guy from SNL that made the liar skit famous? (grin)
Jon Lovitz, yeah, that's the ticket.
Re: The Report from the Commision.
"And the farmer hauled another load away." The barn's filling up faster than he can haul it.
Paul B.
One must keep in mind that Big Oil controls only about 5% of the oil reserves [oil in ground] of the world....most of the reserves are controlled by politically unstable countries...Iraq, Iran, Venezuela, Columbia, former Soviet Union etc.....but they would never conspire to price gouge the American public would they?
But the one thing that always amazes me is; say the price of oil goes up a couple bucks on a barrel.
The higher price is immediately reflected at the gas Pump.
Now if the prices drops a few bucks on a barrel, the price isn't seen for a few weeks, if at all and usually not comensurate with the barrel price.
Last spring the refinery I work for lowerd the price at our Truck dock 5 cents a gal. fuel prices at local pump went up 3 cents a gal and stayed there for weeks. think you need to start looking at the middle man.
We can make some adjustment to make more Gas or more Diesel depending on witch has the best
crack spead but we are still making both products.
In 16 years I've never saw the rates cut due to low prices at the pump. Even when the crack spread was almost even with the cost of production. (JAN 5 years ago)
But the one thing that always amazes me is; say the price of oil goes up a couple bucks on a barrel.
The higher price is immediately reflected at the gas Pump.
Now if the prices drops a few bucks on a barrel, the price isn't seen for a few weeks, if at all and usually not comensurate with the barrel price.
I don't buy into the conspiracy thing either, but you're right on about how pump price moves when oil prices change.......of course that could be the distributers and retail folks too.
Casey
One must keep in mind that Big Oil controls only about 5% of the oil reserves [oil in ground] of the world....most of the reserves are controlled by politically unstable countries...Iraq, Iran, Venezuela, Columbia, former Soviet Union etc.....but they would never conspire to price gouge the American public would they?
How many times does it have to be explained to you.....the price of oil is not set by Big Oil, or any oil producing country....it's set on the NY Merc every day by the traders. It's pretty simple.
~saying this slowly~
It's not that they make a profit. It's not even that they make record profits...It's that they are making their record profits while throwing their own country into a depression by their gouging. Profits are a good thing unless they are gouging that is making folks suffer. Those who are solid middle class with a modicum of disposable income haven't felt it much yet. They will though.
I see price zoning wasn't addressed. The price of oil may be set by the market but the oil companies set gas prices or did you all miss the past month when gas prices were dropping despite the price of crude going up? Gas prices generally follow crude prices but not always.
Price zoning exists. Exxon charges Joe's Exxon one price and tells Jim's Exxon down the block a completely different price. The State of Florida did an investigation a few years back and found the prices charged by oil companies varied as much as $.20 a gallon based upon location. Cities like Wellington and Boca Raton were charged completely different prices than lower income areas. It's legal but it is price fixing.
As far as conspiracy, I don't think there is any conspiracy, the oil companies are in the game to make money and they do their best to maximize profits. Sometimes legal and ethical get hazy with commodities.
Has anyone missed the point that state and the fed government makes a signifigant amount of tax revenue on oil and gas? In Alaska, state and fed taxes make up about 70% of the price of a barrel of AK crude. I imagine in the Gulf there is a similar spread. There are also sizeable federal and state taxes on gas at the pump.
The government (doesn't matter what party as they all need $) is the biggest beneficiary of high oil prices.
Has anyone missed the point that state and the fed government makes a signifigant amount of tax revenue on oil and gas? In Alaska, state and fed taxes make up about 70% of the price of a barrel of AK crude. I imagine in the Gulf there is a similar spread. There are also sizeable federal and state taxes on gas at the pump.
The government (doesn't matter what party as they all need $) is the biggest beneficiary of high oil prices.
I may be wrong but I believe that Federal and State gas taxes are a fixed amount per gallon in each state, not a percentage basis. At least the majority of the tax. Some states have that price listed right at the pump. Like $.46 a gallon if I recall in Florida.
I'm not gonna believe one damned word of that report unless it states what I already think is true!!! (grin)
I'm not gonna believe one damned word of that report unless it states what I already think is true!!! (grin)
I wish that statement weren't as true as it is.
BMT
Everybody has their hand in the profit pot. If there is any actual gouging I think it is at the pump. Stations etc buy gas at "this" price 2 weeks ago, the guy down the street raises his prices and the first guy just does the same, on gas he paid less for than the guy down the street. As long as we depend on gas, we will pay whatever it costs and bitch about it, but pay for it none the less. I can remember the Gas Wars years ago, I remember getting gas for 20 cents a gallon with other free things thrown in to get you to buy gas from a particular station. Of course, that was then and this is now. I am not an advocate of Gooberment intrusion into businesses, but I am getting to think, when it is a commodity we depend on, maybe it is time for more Gooberment oversight.
"No evidence" is how we know O.J. didn't kill those people, too.
The only fool is the first to call others one.
Last spring the refinery I work for lowerd the price at our Truck dock 5 cents a gal. fuel prices at local pump went up 3 cents a gal and stayed there for weeks. think you need to start looking at the middle man.
We can make some adjustment to make more Gas or more Diesel depending on witch has the best
crack spead but we are still making both products.
In 16 years I've never saw the rates cut due to low prices at the pump. Even when the crack spread was almost even with the cost of production. (JAN 5 years ago)
I was laying brick on a new strip mall in Casper a few years ago across the street from a gas station and I saw them come out with a ladder and raise the price three times in one day. I never saw a truck deliver gas that day though. I'd just bet that when the price went down, they weren't in such a big hurry to adjust the sign.
Bits and pieces from an AP article in the Cedar Rapids Gazette of August 30 titled "Gas prices rise as refiners ease off."
"Gas prices rose at the pump for the first time in weeks and energy futures jumped Wednesday after the government reported unexpected declines in refinery activity and inventories of gasoline and oil."
"The price hikes and inventory declines suggest the refining industry is easing back from what had been a scramble to produce more gasoline..."
"... as the summer progressed, refiners boosted output and gasoline inventories rose. That led to a steep sell-off of gasoline futures, and retail prices followed."
"It looks like we might have hit the top of refinery runs for the season."
"The Energy Department's Energy Information Admistration reported that refinery utilization rates fell 1.3 percentage points to 90.3 percent of capacity last week."
The nerve of those bastards, being in business to make money. I say string them all up!
I'm glad that the prices are coming down as are most people I would think, however if you think you are not paying your fair share send 'em some moolah.
What I've found with some libs I know that like to complain about the oil companies making so much money don't even know how much the govt taxes the gas they buy. And as expensive as gas gets, there is a decent reason for it, the govt has a certain percantage amount profit the gas companies have to charge in order to keep the mom and pop owned stations can stay competetive and not get ran out of business by the big companies charging less and making money off volume.
Here's a breakdown of taxes per gallon by state. The majority of taxes are per gallon. So the feds don't make a dime more if gas sells for $3 a gallon instead of $1 a gallon. The largest portion of State tax is per gallon as well, except for that portion set up as sales tax which looks to run from 4-6% on sales before taxes.
http://www.gaspricewatch.com/usgastaxes.aspAnother:
http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/1054.htmlWould hate to live in Kali or New Yorkistan.
Bits and pieces from an AP article in the Cedar Rapids Gazette of August 30 titled "Gas prices rise as refiners ease off."
"Gas prices rose at the pump for the first time in weeks and energy futures jumped Wednesday after the government reported unexpected declines in refinery activity and inventories of gasoline and oil."
"The price hikes and inventory declines suggest the refining industry is easing back from what had been a scramble to produce more gasoline..."... as the summer progressed, refiners boosted output and gasoline inventories rose. That led to a steep sell-off of gasoline futures, and retail prices followed."
"It looks like we might have hit the top of refinery runs for the season."
"The Energy Department's Energy Information Admistration reported that refinery utilization rates fell 1.3 percentage points to 90.3 percent of capacity last week."
Every time a refinery has a fire or a unit go down there will be less product on the market.
A few weeks back one of the refinerys down south burn down thier crude unit. We had problems on one of our main gas producing units. add to that the home heating oil that needs to be made for the east. Oh and it's about time for a hurricane or 2 to come up the gulf coast.
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v650/ldjanos/Refineryfire01-19-04006.jpg)
it took over 30 days to get this unit back on line and something like 8 mil just to get it running.
they put over $100,000,000 in this unit this year so the could 4,000 more bls a day.
You woulder why your fuel is expensive.
The price still is controled by supply and demand.
For some reason (I must be a masochist) I brought up the subject with a certifible moonbat family member. I said: "Where's that $5.00/gal. gasoline you were predicting back in May?". Boy, I learned a lot! Apparently, Bush and the Republican oil companies lowered the price so they could pull the rug out from under Hugo Chavez, and consolidate their monopoly. I missed the detailed explanation (my head was starting to hurt) but lowering prices will also somehow increase profits (WTF????) and they'll keep prices down just long enough to get another Republican in the Whitehouse--and THEN we'll see the $5.00/gal. gasoline.
The way I've sumarized the rant almost makes it sound rational. It was REALLY crazy. I couldn't hang in long enough to get to the part where it's all the fault of the Joos, so I just excused myself to go to the hardware store. And these people are allowed to vote.
Crude Oil inventories are down by over 7 million barrels.....get ready.
Like I said in June...always goes down after Labor Day.