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CAS Offline OP
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I bet you really feel like a bunch of fools now............

According to the FTC:

Quote
* No evidence to suggest that refiners manipulated prices through any means, including running their refineries below full productive capacity to restrict supply, altering their refinery output to produce less gasoline, or diverting gasoline from markets in the United States to less lucrative foreign markets. The evidence indicated that these firms produced as much gasoline as they economically could, using computer models to determine their most profitable slate of products.

* No evidence to suggest that refinery expansion decisions over the past 20 years resulted from either unilateral or coordinated attempts to manipulate prices. Rather, the pace of capacity growth resulted from competitive market forces.

* No evidence to suggest that petroleum pipeline companies made rate or expansion decisions in order to manipulate gasoline prices.

* No evidence to suggest that oil companies reduced inventory to increase or manipulate prices or exacerbate the effects of price spikes generally, or due to hurricane-related supply disruptions in particular. Inventory levels have declined, but the decline represents a decades-long trend to lower costs that is consistent with other manufacturing industries. In setting inventory levels, companies try to plan for unexpected supply disruptions by examining supply needs from past disruptions.

* No situations that might allow one firm � or a small collusive group � to manipulate gasoline futures prices by using storage assets to restrict gasoline movements into New York Harbor, the key delivery point for gasoline futures contracts.



You can read the report here.

I hate to say "I told you so", but, I told you so.

GB1

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Obviously the FTC is in on the conspiracy. smile


"Be sure you're right. Then go ahead." Fess Parker as Davy Crockett
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No evidence to support Ted Kennedy had been drinking or doing anything other than just giving a nice girl a lift home either...

Beg your pardon what were you saying CAS?

just yanking chain pard, no offense intended. (grin)


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I didn't want to quote your entire article so the meat of it as far as I'm concerned is :

"The evidence indicated that these firms produced as much gasoline as they economically could, using computer models to determine their most profitable slate of products."

'economically could' means as much as they felt like producing to keep prices jacked up

'their most profitable' means....well we all know what that means




I didn't understand a word you said, but whatever it was I'm right there with you.
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Geez, You would think all of that price gouging would have left an obvious trail.


muddy


"A good judge applies the law as it is, not as she wants it to be", Justice Sandra Day O'Connor.
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Commissioners
The Commission is headed by five Commissioners, nominated by the President and confirmed by the Senate, each serving a seven-year term. The President chooses one Commissioner to act as Chairman. No more than three Commissioners can be of the same political party. The current Chairman is Deborah Platt Majoras. The other commissioners are Pamela Jones Harbour, Jon Leibowitz, William E. Kovacic, and J. Thomas Rosch.
Kind of like the fox guarding the henhouse!

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The nerve of those bastards, being in business to make money. I say string them all up!

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Jon Leibowitz......is that the guy from SNL that made the liar skit famous? (grin)


"This ain't dress rehearsal....it's the life you get to live, make it a good one."

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Jon Lovitz, yeah, that's the ticket.


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Re: The Report from the Commision.

"And the farmer hauled another load away." The barn's filling up faster than he can haul it.
Paul B.


Our forefathers did not politely protest the British.They did not vote them out of office, nor did they impeach the king,march on the capitol or ask permission for their rights. ----------------They just shot them.
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One must keep in mind that Big Oil controls only about 5% of the oil reserves [oil in ground] of the world....most of the reserves are controlled by politically unstable countries...Iraq, Iran, Venezuela, Columbia, former Soviet Union etc.....but they would never conspire to price gouge the American public would they?

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But the one thing that always amazes me is; say the price of oil goes up a couple bucks on a barrel.
The higher price is immediately reflected at the gas Pump.
Now if the prices drops a few bucks on a barrel, the price isn't seen for a few weeks, if at all and usually not comensurate with the barrel price. whistle


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Last spring the refinery I work for lowerd the price at our Truck dock 5 cents a gal. fuel prices at local pump went up 3 cents a gal and stayed there for weeks. think you need to start looking at the middle man.
We can make some adjustment to make more Gas or more Diesel depending on witch has the best
crack spead but we are still making both products.
In 16 years I've never saw the rates cut due to low prices at the pump. Even when the crack spread was almost even with the cost of production. (JAN 5 years ago)

Last edited by gotlost; 09/06/07.

If you cann't stand my spelling use the ingore feature.

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Originally Posted by DesertSandman
But the one thing that always amazes me is; say the price of oil goes up a couple bucks on a barrel.
The higher price is immediately reflected at the gas Pump.
Now if the prices drops a few bucks on a barrel, the price isn't seen for a few weeks, if at all and usually not comensurate with the barrel price. whistle


I don't buy into the conspiracy thing either, but you're right on about how pump price moves when oil prices change.......of course that could be the distributers and retail folks too.


Casey


Casey

Not being married to any particular political party sure makes it a lot easier to look at the world more objectively...
Having said that, MAGA.
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Originally Posted by VernAK
One must keep in mind that Big Oil controls only about 5% of the oil reserves [oil in ground] of the world....most of the reserves are controlled by politically unstable countries...Iraq, Iran, Venezuela, Columbia, former Soviet Union etc.....but they would never conspire to price gouge the American public would they?


How many times does it have to be explained to you.....the price of oil is not set by Big Oil, or any oil producing country....it's set on the NY Merc every day by the traders. It's pretty simple.


It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
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~saying this slowly~

It's not that they make a profit. It's not even that they make record profits...It's that they are making their record profits while throwing their own country into a depression by their gouging. Profits are a good thing unless they are gouging that is making folks suffer. Those who are solid middle class with a modicum of disposable income haven't felt it much yet. They will though.

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I see price zoning wasn't addressed. The price of oil may be set by the market but the oil companies set gas prices or did you all miss the past month when gas prices were dropping despite the price of crude going up? Gas prices generally follow crude prices but not always.

Price zoning exists. Exxon charges Joe's Exxon one price and tells Jim's Exxon down the block a completely different price. The State of Florida did an investigation a few years back and found the prices charged by oil companies varied as much as $.20 a gallon based upon location. Cities like Wellington and Boca Raton were charged completely different prices than lower income areas. It's legal but it is price fixing.

As far as conspiracy, I don't think there is any conspiracy, the oil companies are in the game to make money and they do their best to maximize profits. Sometimes legal and ethical get hazy with commodities.


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Has anyone missed the point that state and the fed government makes a signifigant amount of tax revenue on oil and gas? In Alaska, state and fed taxes make up about 70% of the price of a barrel of AK crude. I imagine in the Gulf there is a similar spread. There are also sizeable federal and state taxes on gas at the pump.

The government (doesn't matter what party as they all need $) is the biggest beneficiary of high oil prices.

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Originally Posted by 458 Lott
Has anyone missed the point that state and the fed government makes a signifigant amount of tax revenue on oil and gas? In Alaska, state and fed taxes make up about 70% of the price of a barrel of AK crude. I imagine in the Gulf there is a similar spread. There are also sizeable federal and state taxes on gas at the pump.

The government (doesn't matter what party as they all need $) is the biggest beneficiary of high oil prices.


I may be wrong but I believe that Federal and State gas taxes are a fixed amount per gallon in each state, not a percentage basis. At least the majority of the tax. Some states have that price listed right at the pump. Like $.46 a gallon if I recall in Florida.


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I'm not gonna believe one damned word of that report unless it states what I already think is true!!! (grin)


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